If I'm Wojo I'm seriously contemplating some changes to give this team a jolt. First change is I'm starting Ed and bringing Theo off the bench. Ed is better offensively and I think we can punish teams who double the ball up high with their big by getting the ball down to him. I'm also playing Markus off the ball regularly and we saw some effectiveness with that yesterday. Curious what other changes you would like to see.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 10, 2019, 03:41:28 PM
If I'm Wojo I'm seriously contemplating some changes to give this team a jolt. First change is I'm starting Ed and bringing Theo off the bench. Ed is better offensively and I think we can punish teams who double the ball up high with their big by getting the ball down to him. I'm also playing Markus off the ball regularly and we saw some effectiveness with that yesterday. Curious what other changes you would like to see.
I think we need to get the ball inside more to Theo and Ed. Sam and Markus and being pressured and hedged and have been severely limited in getting the open looks they did for a majority of the season.
Over the last few games, we seldom give the ball to John or Morrow in the post. Need to get them more touches and hopefully a few baskets from that area and use that to open up our perimeter shooting. We are way to predictable right now.
One of the few times we did this yesterday, John made a nice skip pass back to a wide open Markus for 3. Need more of that.
Totally agree with feeding Ed and Theo inside more. Teams crowd our outside shooters - as they should - but we don't exploit that as well as we could. Ed in particular has some nice offensive moves, and both can kick it out for open 3s.
Also agree with taking the ball out of Markus' hands more. Sacar and Sam are decent ballhandlers, and both can make teams pay if they put too much effort into keeping Markus from getting it back. At the very least, I think Sacar and/or Sam should bring it upcourt.
As for the bench, I'd make Jamal the first small sub and maybe also give him a couple of Joey's minutes. Maybe Joey makes a comeback and earns back those minutes, but lately he has "freshman wall" written all over him.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 10, 2019, 03:41:28 PM
If I'm Wojo I'm seriously contemplating some changes to give this team a jolt. First change is I'm starting Ed and bringing Theo off the bench. Ed is better offensively and I think we can punish teams who double the ball up high with their big by getting the ball down to him. I'm also playing Markus off the ball regularly and we saw some effectiveness with that yesterday. Curious what other changes you would like to see.
I said this a few weeks ago here, and got scoffed at. Ed is the MUCH better offensive player, he needs to see the ball more. I wonder too what would happen if Wojo ever played Theo and Ed together for brief stretches. At this point, you need to TRY some things to shake things up. I agree also that Markus needs to play off the ball more. Play Chartouny more, see if that helps him "find" it. I really don't think you lose a lot, if anything playing Chartouny, some of Sacar's minutes.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Totally agree with feeding Ed and Theo inside more. Teams crowd our outside shooters - as they should - but we don't exploit that as well as we could. Ed in particular has some nice offensive moves, and both can kick it out for open 3s.
Also agree with taking the ball out of Markus' hands more. Sacar and Sam are decent ballhandlers, and both can make teams pay if they put too much effort into keeping Markus from getting it back. At the very least, I think Sacar and/or Sam should bring it upcourt.
As for the bench, I'd make Jamal the first small sub and maybe also give him a couple of Joey's minutes. Maybe Joey makes a comeback and earns back those minutes, but lately he has "freshman wall" written all over him.
Gooo I think BB really made a statement except for the fouls
Quote from: Newsdreams on March 10, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
Gooo I think BB really made a statement except for the fouls
BB has looked good and CONFIDENT. Sucked that he got tagged with some bs calls yesterday but he also picks up some dumb fouls on rebounds, etc
I wouldn't mind seeing Ed and BB start over John and J Hauser in the BET. After all, that was our opening day lineup.
Quote from: muguru on March 10, 2019, 04:26:41 PM
I said this a few weeks ago here, and got scoffed at. Ed is the MUCH better offensive player, he needs to see the ball more. I wonder too what would happen if Wojo ever played Theo and Ed together for brief stretches. At this point, you need to TRY some things to shake things up. I agree also that Markus needs to play off the ball more. Play Chartouny more, see if that helps him "find" it. I really don't think you lose a lot, if anything playing Chartouny, some of Sacar's minutes.
The problem with playing Ed and Theo together is three-fold. Offensively, Wojo runs a 4-out offense. So one of them will be in the corner. Pretty sure his defender will be helping in the paint, as our opponents would love to see Ed/Theo shooting corner jumpers. Defensively, since no one else plays with two post players at the same time either, one will have to be guarding a wing of some sort. Since our overall defensive lateral quickness is one of the liabilities of this team, having two defensive posts on the floor only adds to that liability. Third, having them play defense on the perimeter will only lead to more foul issues.
Quote from: muguru on March 10, 2019, 04:26:41 PM
I said this a few weeks ago here, and got scoffed at. Ed is the MUCH better offensive player, he needs to see the ball more. I wonder too what would happen if Wojo ever played Theo and Ed together for brief stretches. At this point, you need to TRY some things to shake things up. I agree also that Markus needs to play off the ball more. Play Chartouny more, see if that helps him "find" it. I really don't think you lose a lot, if anything playing Chartouny, some of Sacar's minutes.
To play Ed and Theo together just for the sake of 'shaking things up' would be dumb.
If this team were getting run off the court, then maybe try something cuz you have nothing else to lose and nothing is working anyway. That is not the case.
I disagree that Ed is a MUCH better offensive player. Ed is terrible with his back to the basket in the post. Terrible. Ed travels most every time he touches the ball, just a matter of the refs call it. Where he is very good is behind the basket where he can receive dump offs and get offensive boards. He is very good as using the basket as a shield in not getting his shot blocked. Other than that, I have no idea why you think he is MUCH better offensively than Theo. They both have severe limitations.
Totally correct on Ed and Theo - more touches and, possibly, on the court at the same time. But this should have been done months ago, not now. Way too late to try to make it work at this point.
I was a guy screaming for Howland five years ago and got shouted down. I was also the guy who said I would happily acknowledge if I was wrong on the selection of Wojo. While Wojo has done a great job drawing talent to the program, he has demonstrated no consistent ability to game-coach effectively, in my opinion. This has really cost us this season, especially the last four games.
I would not advocate for any major changes. However, I would like to see are Brendan and Jamal Cain picking up some of Joey minutes. Also would like to see the ball in Sams hands in a guard type role from time to time.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 11, 2019, 11:37:52 AM
Totally correct on Ed and Theo - more touches and, possibly, on the court at the same time. But this should have been done months ago, not now. Way too late to try to make it work at this point.
I was a guy screaming for Howland five years ago and got shouted down. I was also the guy who said I would happily acknowledge if I was wrong on the selection of Wojo. While Wojo has done a great job drawing talent to the program, he has demonstrated no consistent ability to game-coach effectively, in my opinion. This has really cost us this season, especially the last four games.
Prior to the last 4, the only games where lack of in-game adjusting cost us were Kansas and possibly StJ the second time. Whereas his in-game adjustment led to us beating Louisville, Wisconsin, Creighton, Gtown, Providence, Xavier, and Nova. The last 4 games have certainly hurt the idea that Wojo has made a massive improvement in his in-game prep, but lets not pretend like he's been firing blanks all season. If anything the last 4 has reinforced the idea that his pre-game prep is lacking, as just about everyone knew that SH was going to pressure us, and we had 14 first half TOs, and that we were 8-1 the first time through and 4-5 the second. Wojo has had his faults this season, but in-game adjustment hasn't been one of the bigger ones IMO.
Quote from: 4th and State on March 10, 2019, 03:45:08 PM
One of the few times we did this yesterday, John made a nice skip pass back to a wide open Markus for 3. Need more of that.
I'd like to see more of that, too. Up until now, however, John has had a tendency when he gets the ball on the blocks to force a shot whether he has one or not. He's got 16 assists all season, and frankly, I was surprised it was that many. But you need an inside presence, particularly to open things up for your shooters.
In today's game, I seriously cannot believe that anyone is suggesting we play Ed and Theo together. That would be a complete disaster.
I'm okay with starting Ed/giving him more minutes.
Definitely okay with more JC/BB over JH as well
What happened to the slashing Sacar? It is nice to see the 3-pointer going in for him, but we have other teams in foul trouble (in the past four games) and no one was attacking the rim. Would like to see Sacar attack the rim instead of the out-side three...or the mid-range elbow jumper he has been taking lately. Also the floater that Howard has been taking does not qualify. We need someone looking for contact on the way to the basket.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on March 11, 2019, 12:08:31 PM
In today's game, I seriously cannot believe that anyone is suggesting we play Ed and Theo together. That would be a complete disaster.
I'm okay with starting Ed/giving him more minutes.
Definitely okay with more JC/BB over JH as well
Agree Ed and Theo together would be a disaster.
QuoteAgree Ed and Theo together would be a disaster.
The bash brothers would both be sitting by the 10 min mark in the 1st half due to fouls then.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 11, 2019, 12:00:19 PM
I'd like to see more of that, too. Up until now, however, John has had a tendency when he gets the ball on the blocks to force a shot whether he has one or not. He's got 16 assists all season, and frankly, I was surprised it was that many. But you need an inside presence, particularly to open things up for your shooters.
I've noticed that too. When John or Morrow get the ball in the post, they usually go up with it. I think part of that it is because they almost never get it passed to them in the post, so maybe they feel like its now or never for them to put a shot up.
I do think John has some decent ability to score down low. We've seen some flashes, but it just hasn't been a large part of the offense.
Another thing that should be a staple of our offense is playing the ball through the post. With Sam, Joey our bigs and even Sacar there's no reason we shouldn't get deep post position and work inside out. It's like we only do it when we reeeaaally need a basket. We should do it all the time
Quote from: muguru on March 10, 2019, 04:26:41 PM
I said this a few weeks ago here, and got scoffed at. Ed is the MUCH better offensive player, he needs to see the ball more. I wonder too what would happen if Wojo ever played Theo and Ed together for brief stretches. At this point, you need to TRY some things to shake things up. I agree also that Markus needs to play off the ball more. Play Chartouny more, see if that helps him "find" it. I really don't think you lose a lot, if anything playing Chartouny, some of Sacar's minutes.
Don't like Ed and Theo together because of breathers and offense. March 10th is not the time to start a new offense.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 11, 2019, 11:58:41 AM
Prior to the last 4, the only games where lack of in-game adjusting cost us were Kansas and possibly StJ the second time. Whereas his in-game adjustment led to us beating Louisville, Wisconsin, Creighton, Gtown, Providence, Xavier, and Nova. The last 4 games have certainly hurt the idea that Wojo has made a massive improvement in his in-game prep, but lets not pretend like he's been firing blanks all season. If anything the last 4 has reinforced the idea that his pre-game prep is lacking, as just about everyone knew that SH was going to pressure us, and we had 14 first half TOs, and that we were 8-1 the first time through and 4-5 the second. Wojo has had his faults this season, but in-game adjustment hasn't been one of the bigger ones IMO.
Fair point, but as quoted elsewhere on this board, early in the season we were winning more than our fair share of close games. I think some basketball "authority" claimed we were overly lucky. A couple of those early games break the other way and all of a sudden, it looks a lot worse.
I simply believe that Wojo desperately needs a Hank/Wainwright on the bench next to him helping (doing???) the Xs and Os.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 11, 2019, 11:37:52 AM
Totally correct on Ed and Theo - more touches and, possibly, on the court at the same time. But this should have been done months ago, not now. Way too late to try to make it work at this point.
I was a guy screaming for Howland five years ago and got shouted down. I was also the guy who said I would happily acknowledge if I was wrong on the selection of Wojo. While Wojo has done a great job drawing talent to the program, he has demonstrated no consistent ability to game-coach effectively, in my opinion. This has really cost us this season, especially the last four games.
I too argued for Howland, and I have concluded we're better off with Wojo. Will you also acknowledge that, in hindsight, Howland would not have been better for MU than Wojo?
Howland: 77-54 (.588) in 4 seasons; 0 NCAA; 1 NIT; projected as a 6 seed on Bracketology.
Wojo: 96-67 (.589) in 5 seasons; 1 NCAA; 1 NIT; projected as a 5 seed on Bracketology.
Virtually identical resumes, even though Howland brought 19 years of previous head coaching experience, while this is Wojo's first HC gig. Given the near-identical results, I'll take the young guy who is still learning every day.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 11, 2019, 11:41:40 AM
I would not advocate for any major changes. However, I would like to see are Brendan and Jamal Cain picking up some of Joey minutes. Also would like to see the ball in Sams hands in a guard type role from time to time.
Yeah making major changes at this point screams a panic move. These changes above are the things I'm more interested in.
And anyone who in retrospect thinks Ben Howland would have been a better choice than Wojo, you probably should have your head examined.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 11, 2019, 06:29:47 PM
I simply believe that Wojo desperately needs a Hank/Wainwright on the bench next to him helping (doing???) the Xs and Os.
Honestly what is wrong with his Xs and Os? This team has generally done well out of timeouts and out of bounds plays. It's a team that needs a better ball handling guard. Wojo knew this. He didn't get Grimes and Chartouny has been a big disappointment.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 11, 2019, 11:58:41 AM
Prior to the last 4, the only games where lack of in-game adjusting cost us were Kansas and possibly StJ the second time. Whereas his in-game adjustment led to us beating Louisville, Wisconsin, Creighton, Gtown, Providence, Xavier, and Nova. The last 4 games have certainly hurt the idea that Wojo has made a massive improvement in his in-game prep, but lets not pretend like he's been firing blanks all season. If anything the last 4 has reinforced the idea that his pre-game prep is lacking, as just about everyone knew that SH was going to pressure us, and we had 14 first half TOs, and that we were 8-1 the first time through and 4-5 the second. Wojo has had his faults this season, but in-game adjustment hasn't been one of the bigger ones IMO.
Porky concurs, and if memory serves Porky correctly, our shooting percentage in the last 4 games was off and a lot of the open looks they got just didn't fall. Unfortunately that happens sometimes so all the more reason to utilize our bigs as scoring options on plays and not just off of Oboards.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2019, 11:17:58 PM
I too argued for Howland, and I have concluded we're better off with Wojo. Will you also acknowledge that, in hindsight, Howland would not have been better for MU than Wojo?
Howland: 77-54 (.588) in 4 seasons; 0 NCAA; 1 NIT; projected as a 6 seed on Bracketology.
Wojo: 96-67 (.589) in 5 seasons; 1 NCAA; 1 NIT; projected as a 5 seed on Bracketology.
Virtually identical resumes, even though Howland brought 19 years of previous head coaching experience, while this is Wojo's first HC gig. Given the near-identical results, I'll take the young guy who is still learning every day.
I don't know. Wojo was working with a bigger budget and at a school that has a much better basketball history/reputation. One can make the case that a "push" between the two, considering Mississippi State's starting point, is a win for Mississippi State and Howland.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 12, 2019, 06:16:50 AM
Honestly what is wrong with his Xs and Os? This team has generally done well out of timeouts and out of bounds plays. It's a team that needs a better ball handling guard. Wojo knew this. He didn't get Grimes and Chartouny has been a big disappointment.
I agree. It's the in-game adjustments that are an area for improvement, in my opinion.
Lineup changes are not what is needed. This team has enough offensive weapons to make a team pay for a particular defensive approach, but that requires the team to adjust.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 12, 2019, 12:19:19 PM
I don't know. Wojo was working with a bigger budget and at a school that has a much better basketball history/reputation. One can make the case that a "push" between the two, considering Mississippi State's starting point, is a win for Mississippi State and Howland.
Yeah, but except for this season, the BE has been better than the SEC. Two #1 seeds last year, more bids in both '16 and '17 even though it's a smaller conference, etc.
I'd say a push makes it a push....
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 12, 2019, 01:21:42 PM
Yeah, but except for this season, the BE has been better than the SEC. Two #1 seeds last year, more bids in both '16 and '17 even though it's a smaller conference, etc.
I'd say a push makes it a push....
We have to stop. This is actually turning into a civil discussion on a difference of opinion on Scoop. Everyone knows we just can't have that!
Sam NEEDS to have the ball more in his hands in the last 5 minutes...I have told people as far back as last year after the season that I hoped next year, if the game is tight in the last 5 minutes, that Sam has the ball more then Markus. I also agree with the Sam handling the ball more..Joey too..give Markus some help with the ball handling duties...also pulls their bigs out to the perimeter.
So, two bigs won't work in today's game, is what everyone THINKS...What do we think Duke who starts 6'10" Marques Bolden with Zion Williamson, or UNC who starts 6'9" Luke Maye along side of 6'10" Garrison Brooks, or Michigan State who starts Nick Ward(when healthy), and Kenny Goins, or heck how about UW who starts Ethan Happ and Nate Reuvers?? Think they feel like two bigs together doesn't work?? I said in SMALL stretches...
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 12, 2019, 12:19:19 PM
I don't know. Wojo was working with a bigger budget and at a school that has a much better basketball history/reputation. One can make the case that a "push" between the two, considering Mississippi State's starting point, is a win for Mississippi State and Howland.
Howland is working at a school and conference that has easier academic standards, warmer weather, warmer coeds, etc. Schools of that size use revenues from football and other sports to cover off on costs that MU's basketball revenues / expenses have to. You want a weight room, MU basketball is paying for that...at a SEC school, the basketball program isn't but has the opportunity to use a state of the art weight training facility that the football revenues covered.
Let's look at it from both sides.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on March 11, 2019, 12:08:31 PM
In today's game, I seriously cannot believe that anyone is suggesting we play Ed and Theo together. That would be a complete disaster.
I'm okay with starting Ed/giving him more minutes.
Definitely okay with more JC/BB over JH as well
+ infinity
Quote from: muguru on March 12, 2019, 03:01:07 PM
Sam NEEDS to have the ball more in his hands in the last 5 minutes...I have told people as far back as last year after the season that I hoped next year, if the game is tight in the last 5 minutes, that Sam has the ball more then Markus. I also agree with the Sam handling the ball more..Joey too..give Markus some help with the ball handling duties...also pulls their bigs out to the perimeter.
So, two bigs won't work in today's game, is what everyone THINKS...What do we think Duke who starts 6'10" Marques Bolden with Zion Williamson, or UNC who starts 6'9" Luke Maye along side of 6'10" Garrison Brooks, or Michigan State who starts Nick Ward(when healthy), and Kenny Goins, or heck how about UW who starts Ethan Happ and Nate Reuvers?? Think they feel like two bigs together doesn't work?? I said in SMALL stretches...
Goins, Ruevers, and Maye can all make a 3. All can handle the ball a bit. Reuvers and Maye are also very good post players.
Even Zion has hit a handful of threes. Plus, Zion can dribble drive and finish with a freakish combination of strength & athleticism.
Now compare that to John and Morrow. Neither can faceup and shoot. Neither can handle the ball. Post moves, limited. It would be an offensive disaster.
From an offensive spacing perspective, it would be as bad or worse than Gardner and Otule.
Quote from: tower912 on March 12, 2019, 04:02:09 PM
From an offensive spacing perspective, it would be as bad or worse than Gardner and Otule.
Gardner at least could play a little 10-15 FT out.
Quote from: muguru on March 12, 2019, 03:01:07 PM
Sam NEEDS to have the ball more in his hands in the last 5 minutes...I have told people as far back as last year after the season that I hoped next year, if the game is tight in the last 5 minutes, that Sam has the ball more then Markus. I also agree with the Sam handling the ball more..Joey too..give Markus some help with the ball handling duties...also pulls their bigs out to the perimeter.
So, two bigs won't work in today's game, is what everyone THINKS...What do we think Duke who starts 6'10" Marques Bolden with Zion Williamson, or UNC who starts 6'9" Luke Maye along side of 6'10" Garrison Brooks, or Michigan State who starts Nick Ward(when healthy), and Kenny Goins, or heck how about UW who starts Ethan Happ and Nate Reuvers?? Think they feel like two bigs together doesn't work?? I said in SMALL stretches...
No one said two big men together can't work. Just that our two big men together won't work
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 12, 2019, 04:53:49 PM
No one said two big men together can't work. Just that our two big men together won't work
Agreed. If one of the bigs is as mobile and versatile as Zion, or plays away from the hoop like Happ, a second big can be great. But when both can only score within 3 feet of the hoop, it would create a constant logjam.
Ed and Theo are both solid at what they do, but they would be a disaster on the court together.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 12, 2019, 04:53:49 PM
No one said two big men together can't work. Just that our two big men together won't work
Yup. Our two bigs are same type of offensive player. If one had range on his shot, perhaps.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 12, 2019, 04:53:49 PM
No one said two big men together can't work. Just that our two big men together won't work
Exactly. Keep in mind that Sam at 6'8" and Joey at 6'9" work well together with either Ed at 6'7" or Theo at 6'9". And often Baily at 6'8" plays well with any combination. We are blessed with a long and tall group of Warriors.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 13, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Exactly. Keep in mind that Sam at 6'8" and Joey at 6'9" work well together with either Ed at 6'7" or Theo at 6'9". And often Baily at 6'8" plays well with any combination. We are blessed with a long and tall group of Warriors.
All that height and so few post touches. I seriously don't get why that's not a staple of our offense
I would like to see Baily start instead of Joey and have Sacar at point and Markus off the ball. I think th first makes a better defensive team and we don't lose anything on offense. Second move should free Markus up for more shots.
Quote from: denverMU on March 13, 2019, 12:11:08 PM
I would like to see Baily start instead of Joey and have Sacar at point and Markus off the ball. I think th first makes a better defensive team and we don't lose anything on offense. Second move should free Markus up for more shots.
I like the idea of Joey off the bench. A fresh Joey would matchup against either a backup or tired starter. That might give him an edge that boosts his scoring.
Quote from: denverMU on March 13, 2019, 12:11:08 PM
I would like to see Baily start instead of Joey and have Sacar at point and Markus off the ball. I think th first makes a better defensive team and we don't lose anything on offense. Second move should free Markus up for more shots.
We don't lose anything on offense....assuming Bailey can play like he did last game every game and that Joey doesn't play like he did last game every game.