MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on March 06, 2019, 07:35:46 PM
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1. Three straight late game cold snaps. Three straight losses.
2. Someone needs to get to the basket off the dribble. Powell did. Marquette didn't.
3. Marquette got the lead turning it over, lost the lead settling for 3's.
4. Home crowd sure boosted the Pirate's.
5. 18-0 run when it mattered
6. I predicted 22-24 regular season wins. So I have that going for me.
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Disgusting.
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What a pathetic end to what could have been a really great regular season. Typical.
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Joey is a terrible
It's that simple
Markus pro??? lol
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This team is flat out weak mentally. This loss is 100% on wojo for his substitutions. Don't even care about the 18 turnovers. When you blow a 13 points lead with 6 mins left you fail as a coach.
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We just look completely lost.
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Soft team.
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I hope we lose to Georgetown so we can be perfect down the stretch.
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Those are two really bad back to back losses. Nova I can accept, but with everything to play for, MU has completely lost its mojo at the worst time of year.
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I'm really not sure what Wojo could have done but left Markus on the bench? But you don't do that to your leader.
Awful performance. Terrible game to sit through. Glad we're helping the Big East teams get into the tournament though! Next up, Georgetown.
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This team is flat out weak mentally. This loss is 100% on wojo for his substitutions. Don't even care about the 18 turnovers. When you blow a 13 points lead with 6 mins left you fail as a coach.
What “substitutions” should he have made?
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Wojo’s handling of lineups has been really, really bad the last three games
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What a pathetic end to what could have been a really great regular season. Typical.
Typical? How?
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Lol
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Other teams figured us out. Other coaches figured Wojo out. Wojo needs to find a way to right the ship here. We might be looking at a 7 or 8 seed if we keep this up.
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not sure what to say. wojo is lost. markus' weaknesses have been exploited big time. he has been just terrible, even in the games when he scored a lot. this team is weak mentally. very very disappointing. trending in the wrong direction at the wrong time
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Maybe he can #GLeagueMe with his bro next year, but I'm tired of Howard trying to get his and killing the flow.
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Please explain the substitution mistakes. I am curious.
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I'm really not sure what Wojo could have done but left Markus on the bench? But you don't do that to your leader.
Markus shouldn’t have been in at the end. The offense was rolling through Sam before he came back in.
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Soft team.
Soft 5 years
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This place should be a sh*t show the next few days.
Brutal game. Awful last 8 minutes or so. Plus minus with and without Markus has to be staggering today. Worse team with him on the court by a wide margin today.
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Other teams figured us out. Other coaches figured Wojo out. Wojo needs to find a way to right the ship here. We might be looking at a 7 or 8 seed if we keep this up.
We are a product of any extremely weak Big East. This is a .500 team if there was another 2 good teams.
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Howard is gonna get drafted in the 19th round at this rate
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Other teams figured us out. Other coaches figured Wojo out. Wojo needs to find a way to right the ship here. We might be looking at a 7 or 8 seed if we keep this up.
No.
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Deer in headlights ... coach and team.
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I'm really not sure what Wojo could have done but left Markus on the bench? But you don't do that to your leader.
Awful performance. Terrible game to sit through. Glad we're helping the Big East teams get into the tournament though! Next up, Georgetown.
And another frigging loss out our ass
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Maybe he can #GLeagueMe with his bro next year, but I'm tired of Howard trying to get his and killing the flow.
Lol, made me laugh
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Markus shouldn’t have been in at the end. The offense was rolling through Sam before he came back in.
I would add not giving Ed the minutes he earned was a terrible job by Wojo. And for the second game in a row Joey has gotten critical minutes late and absolutely killed us
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This place should be a sh*t show the next few days.
Brutal game. Awful last 8 minutes or so. Plus minus with and without Markus has to be staggering today. Worse team with him on the court by a wide margin today.
I guess the only positive I can see is with Govan Georgetown doesn't really have the personnel to do the high hedge/double. And their guards are small so they shouldn't be able to successfully trap.
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Please explain the substitution mistakes. I am curious.
putting markus back in was a mistake. he has been a train wreck during end of game situations. definitely not a calming influence on the floor
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Other teams figured us out. Other coaches figured Wojo out. Wojo needs to find a way to right the ship here. We might be looking at a 7 or 8 seed if we keep this up.
I think 5 is the floor. But dear lord I hope we don’t try to find out.
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Missed 17/19 down the stretch but most were very low percentage and bad looks. Team really lacked composure. Why were they shooting desperation shots at the rim with 1:30?
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I would add not giving Ed the minutes he earned was a terrible job by Wojo. And for the second game in a row Joey has gotten critical minutes late and absolutely killed us
Agreed. Especially at the end when it would be helpful to have the better offensive big man in the game.
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Markus shouldn’t have been in at the end. The offense was rolling through Sam before he came back in.
Sam missed his last four shots. He took more shots than Markus did down the stretch.
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I think something is going on in the locker room.
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putting markus back in was a mistake. he has been a train wreck during end of game situations. definitely not a calming influence on the floor
Frustrated fans say irrational things.
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Markus shouldn’t have been in at the end. The offense was rolling through Sam before he came back in.
Sam had a bunch of looks and missed them, so did Joey so did Markus in the last 2 minutes
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Missed 17/19 down the stretch but most were very low percentage and bad looks. Team really lacked composure. Why were they shooting desperation shots at the rim with 1:30?
no plan? no offensive plays? or the players aren't listening? markus loves to chuck at the end of games....it's bad
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Honestly, the team was better without Markus tonight. But f*ck it is disappointing to watch the team choke leads with dumb play. 3 straight head scratchers where they just fell apart in the last five minutes.
Doesn't look like a team composed enougg to make it out of the first round when the lights shine.
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no plan? no offensive plays? or the players aren't listening? markus loves to chuck at the end of games....it's bad
Markus chucked once. He had a wide open one that he should take every single time. Stop being irrational.
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You guys can blast me all you want, but I have seen enough...Wojo needs to go...but the administration is under the desk for him so it won't happen, but he is TERRIBLE. This is on him..PERIOD.
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Frustrated fans say irrational things.
okay, you got me. Markus has been exceptional lately during end of game situations. a calming influence on the floor who values the ball and does not force things, but plays within the offense
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You guys can blast me all you want, but I have seen enough...Wojo needs to go...but the administration is under the desk for him so it won't happen, but he is TERRIBLE. This is on him..PERIOD.
What should he have done?
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I think 5 is the floor. But dear lord I hope we don’t try to find out.
We're already at 26 in the NET without accounting for tonight's loss. I know seeding won't follow the NET exactly, but if it did, a ranking of 26 puts us as a 7. Add in tonight's loss and maybe one more in the BET to a mediocre team, and we could see out NET in the high 30s. Getting a 7 or 8 from that isn't out of the question.
I do think our resume is better than some of the other teams around us right now, so I think we're probably a 4 today. But this loss will hurt, and we may have to rely on some other teams slipping up for us to stay at a 4.
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Team has lost the poise down the stretch they played with Jan and Feb. That is what is most concerning.
But remember just like Creighton if MU takes care of the ball in the first half they have a 16 point lead at half and the 8 point run in the beginning of the second half puts the game out of reach.
College BB is a guards game and MU was too reliant on taller slower players who are also go standstill shooters. When Marcus isn't carrying us we become very slow. On defense our guys can't keep other teams out of the lane. Theo compensated for that but now he is either in foul trouble or the other team has figured it out.
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Honestly, the team was better without Markus tonight.
There have been several examples of this all season. “Better” may not always be the operative word, but when Markus is bad he takes the whole team with him.
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You guys can blast me all you want, but I have seen enough...Wojo needs to go...but the administration is under the desk for him so it won't happen, but he is TERRIBLE. This is on him..PERIOD.
And LOL
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10 days ago, people were frustrated Markus wasn't getting more NPOY hype. Worried he was going pro. Same guy. A couple of bad games.
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Markus shouldn’t have been in at the end. The offense was rolling through Sam before he came back in.
+ a lot
This game was under control without Markus. It started falling apart as soon as Markus came back in. Maybe coincidental, but sure looked like the difference to me.
(Not taking away from Markus overall, just today I think he should have stayed on the bench)
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This team is a 5 seed after this loss. A 6 with a loss to Georgetown and still a 6 if we lose in the first round. You have to keep in mind that teams behind us lost a lot of games after the selection reveal and we went 4-0 during that stretch. We could still be a 4 with this loss. I am as pissed off as anyone but we still have a solid resume. I think the worst seed we can get at this point is a 6 and that would mean losing out.
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What should he have done?
I dont understand why sacar doesnt bring up the ball more and run howard off of screens to get looks that way. Howard is not a PG!!!
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You guys can blast me all you want, but I have seen enough...Wojo needs to go...but the administration is under the desk for him so it won't happen, but he is TERRIBLE. This is on him..PERIOD.
Nova lost 3 in a row to basically the same competition. Was it time for Jay Wright to go??
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This has gotten frustrating. Team looks totally lost. Limp into the BEast and potentially limp into the NCAA.
It's really too bad. This could have been (and possibly still could be) a really special year. But right now it isn't looking so hot in crunch time.
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Nova lost 3 in a row to basically the same competition. Was it time for Jay Wright to go??
can't even make that comparison. he is a proven winner with multiple national championships. wojo has done nothing
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You guys can blast me all you want, but I have seen enough...Wojo needs to go...but the administration is under the desk for him so it won't happen, but he is TERRIBLE. This is on him..PERIOD.
Maybe it's the assistant coaches who are terrible.
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This has gotten frustrating. Team looks totally lost. Limp into the BEast and potentially limp into the NCAA.
It's really too bad. This could have been (and possibly still could be) a really special year. But right now it isn't looking so hot in crunch time.
That's my fear. They forgot how to close. No killer instinct that was there before. Just look lost out there
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I dont understand why sacar doesnt bring up the ball more and run howard off of screens to get looks that way. Howard is not a PG!!!
That happened repeatedly during the scoreless stretch.
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We're already at 26 in the NET without accounting for tonight's loss. I know seeding won't follow the NET exactly, but if it did, a ranking of 26 puts us as a 7. Add in tonight's loss and maybe one more in the BET to a mediocre team, and we could see out NET in the high 30s. Getting a 7 or 8 from that isn't out of the question.
I do think our resume is better than some of the other teams around us right now, so I think we're probably a 4 today. But this loss will hurt, and we may have to rely on some other teams slipping up for us to stay at a 4.
Our Q1 wins will keep us well above where our NET sits. I admit I wouldn’t be totally floored to see a 6 if we lose Saturday and first round of BET. Seeds can be pushed a line or two to keep teams away from each other. But I really hope we don’t run into that. Need a W Saturday in the worst way to stop the bleeding.
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Who even cares. At this point all you can do is move on and get ready for post season play. Need to shake off whatever is going and focus or were a first round exit
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Duke wouldnt bring him back to fill the gatoraide jug at this point
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What should he have done?
Well, he needs to be asked..."You have said, this is all on you, yet the same things keep happening...explain that". He sounds unbelieveably upbeat in the post game, makes me f'n sick.
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Joey is a terrible
It's that simple
Markus pro??? lol
Watch the first play of the game. Theos screens n rolls to the front rim, noone even near the paint or within 15 feet of him. mArkus dribbles until he turns it over. Selfish with zero court vision.
Joey on the court is baffling what does he contribute? In time sure, right now simply horrible in all regards
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Who even cares. At this point all you can do is move on and get ready for post season play. Need to shake off whatever is going and focus or were a first round exit
yeah, now that we have completely pissed away the big east title
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The worst part is all 3 games were totally winnable. We pissed down our leg. This team needs senior leaders. Next year we’ll have them.
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Joey 2 for 12, with a missed power dunk. Bad stretch for the young fella, he's not the BE Rookie of Year.
18, 22 and 18 turnovers. Cant imagine if we played Virginia tonight, it might have been close to 30.
Joe C. had a bad night. Cain had a bad night. Morrow played tough.
Markus has 18 turnovers in last 3 games. Just not tall enough to see over or when he drives he jumps and throws it away.
Good for Bailey, hit his last three three pointers.
Last: Look I like Theo, think he is pretty good player, but his antics on the court, those immature grimaces, yelling at players, just has to stop. Picked up just another stupid tech tonight, very early on and he sat. He acts as if he is the bad man of the BE, yet he can't even stay on the court. Another 4 foul game, which I believe is 14 of 17 BE games played. I hate to say it, but guards are coming next year, maybe time for a grad transfer center. The staff must be going out of their minds.
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can't even make that comparison. he is a proven winner with multiple national championships. wojo has done nothing
We're in a rough patch right now but that doesn't cancel out what Wojo has accomplished with this team. Its disappointing we won't win the BE BUT we'll finish second, go to the NCAA tourney as a decent seed. I know I would have taken that at the beginning of the season.
Next year they'll have more guards including a point guard. Marcus will be back.
Get back on the bus, enjoy the ride
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Wojo got caught with his pants down. Rowsey graduated, and he had no real heir to the PG thrown. Worth giving Markus a chance, but needed a backup plan. Chartouney despite his numbers proved to be no where near BIg East capable. Elliot gets hurt. Perfect storm. Still shaking my head it took teams this long to pressure us. Iu provided the blueprint. No one duplicated it until nova, now everyone is just following suit.
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The worst part is all 3 games were totally winnable. We pissed down our leg. This team needs senior leaders. Next year we’ll have them.
They're plenty experienced. They just choked.
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joe c is just laughably bad. he brings absolutely nothing. Not sure what people saw in him.
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Last: Look I like Theo, think he is pretty good player, but his antics on the court, those immature grimaces, yelling at players, just has to stop. Picked up just another stupid tech tonight, very early on and he sat. He acts as if he is the bad man of the BE, yet he can't even stay on the court. Another 4 foul game, which I believe is 14 of 17 BE games played. I hate to say it, but guards are coming next year, maybe time for a grad transfer center. The staff must be going out of their minds.
Um, no. Theo and his zero TOs in 23 minutes was not the reason we lost. If we didn't have Ed, and had to roll with Matt as a back-up then maybe you'd have a point, but at this point, I'd rather have Symir, or another grad transfer ball handler than a new Center.
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Joey 2 for 12, with a missed power dunk. Bad stretch for the young fella, he's not the BE Rookie of Year.
18, 22 and 18 turnovers. Cant imagine if we played Virginia tonight, it might have been close to 30.
I agree with all the above. I would add that theo being a head case and getting chippy / stupid fouls is partly on wojo for not putting a lid on that bs we see every game. That kind of bs will not be called / seen in our favor against a blue blood in the tourney
Joe C. had a bad night. Cain had a bad night. Morrow played tough.
Markus has 18 turnovers in last 3 games. Just not tall enough to see over or when he drives he jumps and throws it away.
Good for Bailey, hit his last three three pointers.
Last: Look I like Theo, think he is pretty good player, but his antics on the court, those immature grimaces, yelling at players, just has to stop. Picked up just another stupid tech tonight, very early on and he sat. He acts as if he is the bad man of the BE, yet he can't even stay on the court. Another 4 foul game, which I believe is 14 of 17 BE games played. I hate to say it, but guards are coming next year, maybe time for a grad transfer center. The staff must be going out of their minds.
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+ a lot
This game was under control without Markus. It started falling apart as soon as Markus came back in. Maybe coincidental, but sure looked like the difference to me.
(Not taking away from Markus overall, just today I think he should have stayed on the bench)
That just isn't true. Seton Hall had already started to cut into the lead before Markus getting into the game.
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Soft 5 years
Fair comment.
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Watch the first play of the game. Theos screens n rolls to the front rim, noone even near the paint or within 15 feet of him. mArkus dribbles until he turns it over. Selfish with zero court vision.
Joey on the court is baffling what does he contribute? In time sure, right now simply horrible in all regards
He turned the ball over because he passed to Sam, who took his eye off the ball and it went through his hands.
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People calling for Wojo's head and also calling the team mentally weak should look in a unnatural carnal knowledgeing mirror.
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Frustrated fans say irrational things.
I don't think that's irrational. I tweeted this during the game:
I love Howard. Love his game. But right now, up 13, I'm not sure I want him back in the game. Unless there's a real need.
Just moments later, Howard was in the game and the lead was halved. It may have started before he came back in, but he looked broken all night. We were flying without him. Sacar had settled down, Sam was in control, just let it ride. Putting Markus back in was a mistake.
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Nova lost 3 in a row to basically the same competition. Was it time for Jay Wright to go??
No but then MU has not won 2 championships in 3 years. This is a silly comparison. Try another comparison. BUZZARD takes over a pathetic VT team and how is he looking vs our Duke breed coach? Oh, and how does the ACC stack up to the BE?
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Wojo has done an excellent job all season riding the hot hand in games except when it comes to Howard. The ULTIMATE GREEN LIGHT is a very real thing.
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We talked about this at halftime in the chat. Have Sacar bring the ball up court and then MU can set up the offense with a dribble handoff to Markus. MU got there in a de facto way with foul trouble on MH. With the pressure, this forces the defense downcourt to not leave Markus alone--and Sacar can throw over the top. Don't take Markus out but take the ball out of his hand in the backcourt and space the defense. MU had one TO with Sacar advancing versus the press and that was on an arm slash.
MU was better with Ed and BB in there. BB played with a lot of confidence.
Why are we fouling after a miss with 58 seconds to go in a one possession game (down 3) and a time out in his pocket? Mortal sin. Play a possession and get a stop before fouling to extend.
Hero ball showed panic. When you aren't hitting from the outside, drive to the hoop (Ed and Sacar were doing this). Get a foul or kick it out (Joey). Sacar got the last points doing this but then the Artic Freeze settled and it went to a Chuckfest.
The turnovers are mostly unforced. Defenses are extending pressure and MU panics. Get the ball in the middle of the court and attack the paint. MU has been scouted. We were doing this with Sam a bit and then stopped it. Jamal and BB could play this role.
Powell is a stud at the end of games. All BE and my vote for POY. Hall is nothing without him.
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At the beginning of the season, I would have taken 2d in the BE and 5 or 6 seed in the tournament. So would most posters on this Board . . . and yet . . .
- Choked away a BE title
- Joey Hauser is lost at the moment
- Markus is not a point guard and that weakness has been brutally exposed
- Average Creighton and Seton Hall teams have run the 3/4 court - 1/2 court press to perfection against a Marquette team with a weak handle (imagine what a Kentucky could do?)
- This year's team is exposed come tourney time[/li][/list]
And yet, curiously, I believe the Warriors win it all.
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He turned the ball over because he passed to Sam, who took his eye off the ball and it went through his hands.
Way to completely miss the point
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We talked about this at halftime in the chat. Have Sacar bring the ball up court and then MU can set up the offense with a dribble handoff to Markus. MU got there in a de facto way with foul trouble on MH. With the pressure, this forces the defense downcourt to not leave Markus alone--and Sacar can throw over the top. Don't take Markus out but take the ball out of his hand in the backcourt and space the defense. MU had one TO with Sacar advancing versus the press and that was on an arm slash.
MU was better with Ed and BB in there. BB played with a lot of confidence.
Why are we fouling after a miss with 58 seconds to go in a one possession game (down 3) and a time out in his pocket? Mortal sin. Play a possession and get a stop before fouling to extend.
Hero ball showed panic. When you aren't hitting from the outside, drive to the hoop (Ed and Sacar were doing this). Get a foul or kick it out (Joey). Sacar got the last points doing this but then the Artic Freeze settled in in the Chuckfest.
The turnovers are mostly unforced. Defenses are extending pressure and MU panics. Get the ball in the middle of the court and attack the paint. MU has been scouted. We were doing this with Sam a bit and then stopped it. Jamal and BB could play this role.
Powell is a stud at the end of games. All BE and my vote for POY. Hall is nothing without him.
This is a very good observation all around.
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Way to completely miss the point
When your point is built on faulty information, it really isn't much of a point.
Look, I agree with you that Markus wasn't great today. But just don't use an example where he actually hit Sam in the hands with a pass.
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What’s odd is MU’s ability to close games for the first two/thirds of this season was really good, maybe exceptionally good. This is a completely different team now, with no (known) injuries or other adverse circumstances. They don’t look physically out of gas, but something sure isn’t right. Some type of regression or off night can be expected, but MU has blown three straight games with an ok lead down the stretch. Something ain’t right.
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That just isn't true. Seton Hall had already started to cut into the lead before Markus getting into the game.
Um, Yes it is.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401083266
9:36 left in the second, Marquette had a 59-46 lead. SHU called a timeout. Markus came in. MU lost.
If he somehow came in after Powell made 2 shots and before 8:33 - apologies - but it doesn't change my point much.
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What’s odd is MU’s ability to close games for the first two/thirds of this season was really good, maybe exceptionally good. This is a completely different team now, with no (known) injuries or other adverse circumstances. They don’t look physically out of gas, but something sure isn’t right. Some type of regression or off night can be expected, but MU has blown three straight games with an ok lead down the stretch. Something ain’t right.
Regression to the mean
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At the beginning of the season, I would have taken 2d in the BE and 5 or 6 seed in the tournament. So would most posters on this Board . . . and yet . . .
I mean, you take what you get, but I would've considered 2nd in the league & a 5-seed to be a disappointment. I still do, but it's feeling like reality. Anything less than a Big East tourney title or Final Four will really be a letdown.
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Regression to the mean
This is my fear and likely the cold reality. I’m now reassessing how good I thought this team was
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Um, Yes it is.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401083266
9:36 left in the second, Marquette had a 59-46 lead. SHU called a timeout. Markus came in. MU lost.
If he somehow came in after Powell made 2 shots and before 8:33 - apologies - but it doesn't change my point much.
Well regardless I see your point.
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Um, Yes it is.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401083266
9:36 left in the second, Marquette had a 59-46 lead. SHU called a timeout. Markus came in. MU lost.
If he somehow came in after Powell made 2 shots and before 8:33 - apologies - but it doesn't change my point much.
You are right. I thought Wojo was waiting for 8 minute TV timeout to put him back in, but he did not.
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What’s odd is MU’s ability to close games for the first two/thirds of this season was really good, maybe exceptionally good. This is a completely different team now, with no (known) injuries or other adverse circumstances. They don’t look physically out of gas, but something sure isn’t right. Some type of regression or off night can be expected, but MU has blown three straight games with an ok lead down the stretch. Something ain’t right.
Second time through conference. Howard Rules picked up. MU hasn't adjusted as Wojo is primarily a systems coach.
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We talked about this at halftime in the chat. Have Sacar bring the ball up court and then MU can set up the offense with a dribble handoff to Markus. MU got there in a de facto way with foul trouble on MH. With the pressure, this forces the defense downcourt to not leave Markus alone--and Sacar can throw over the top. Don't take Markus out but take the ball out of his hand in the backcourt and space the defense. MU had one TO with Sacar advancing versus the press and that was on an arm slash.
MU was better with Ed and BB in there. BB played with a lot of confidence.
Why are we fouling after a miss with 58 seconds to go in a one possession game (down 3) and a time out in his pocket? Mortal sin. Play a possession and get a stop before fouling to extend.
Hero ball showed panic. When you aren't hitting from the outside, drive to the hoop (Ed and Sacar were doing this). Get a foul or kick it out (Joey). Sacar got the last points doing this but then the Artic Freeze settled and it went to a Chuckfest.
The turnovers are mostly unforced. Defenses are extending pressure and MU panics. Get the ball in the middle of the court and attack the paint. MU has been scouted. We were doing this with Sam a bit and then stopped it. Jamal and BB could play this role.
Powell is a stud at the end of games. All BE and my vote for POY. Hall is nothing without him.
I actually liked the foul with 58 seconds left. We had 6 fouls at the time. 1 and 1 for a 50 something percent FT shooter. If Hall eats 30 seconds off the clock and gets a bucket there the game is pretty much over; then down 5 with less than 30 seconds to go.
It didn’t work out tonight. But I liked the play. Hall has been a terrible free throw shooting team all season. Making them beat you from the line when you have all the 1 and 1s in front if you seemed like a good call.
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What did Wojo say in press conference? Anyone hear?
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For how this season has gone, a one and done in the tournament would be a gigantic buzzkill.
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That just isn't true. Seton Hall had already started to cut into the lead before Markus getting into the game.
MU was up 13 when Howard came in. I think they were up three when he entered against Nova. It’s hard to blame Wojo for putting in his top scorer, but some nights you just don’t have it. Lately the offense shuts down when he enters near the end of the game. Even when he passes the offense just looks bad.
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For how this season has gone, a one and done in the tournament would be a gigantic buzzkill.
They won’t pass the first round the way they are playing
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When your point is built on faulty information, it really isn't much of a point.
Look, I agree with you that Markus wasn't great today. But just don't use an example where he actually hit Sam in the hands with a pass.
The denseness! The point was Markus got a ball screen and theo stood at the rim with no one within 15 feet of him and Markus threw it to Sam. Good lord
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I actually liked the foul with 58 seconds left. We had 6 fouls at the time. 1 and 1 for a 50 something percent FT shooter. If Hall eats 30 seconds off the clock and gets a bucket there the game is pretty much over; then down 5 with less than 30 seconds to go.
It didn’t work out tonight. But I liked the play. Hall has been a terrible free throw shooting team all season. Making them beat you from the line when you have all the 1 and 1s in front if you seemed like a good call.
Not with a time out in hand. A made free throw automatically makes it a two possession game, which it did. You have the #1 defense in the BE. It doesn't take much time to foul after a miss. As it was, Hall was just dribbling out the clock at the end.
Wojo didn't extend the game, he ended it. Second game in a row he left the court with a time out in his pocket.
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For how this season has gone, a one and done in the tournament would be a gigantic buzzkill.
One game or one win?
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MU was up 13 when Howard came in. I think they were up three when he entered against Nova. It’s hard to blame Wojo for putting in his top scorer, but some nights you just don’t have it. Lately the offense shuts down when he enters near the end of the game. Even when he passes the offense just looks bad.
Just went back and watched. Howard came in at 8:42 when we were up 8. Seton Hall had just scored 5 quick points, a Myles Powell 3 that hit every part of the rim before falling, and an Ed Morrow goaltend that was a millisecond too late.
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Just went back and watched. Howard came in at 8:42 when we were up 8. Seton Hall had just scored 5 quick points, a Myles Powell 3 that hit every part of the rim before falling, and an Ed Morrow goaltend that was a millisecond too late.
So he was only -17? Then I feel better about keeping him on the floor.
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Baldwin last night for Butler v X, and Powell tonight just unconscious when their team needed them late. Impressive, and painful to watch.
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Just went back and watched. Howard came in at 8:42 when we were up 8. Seton Hall had just scored 5 quick points, a Myles Powell 3 that hit every part of the rim before falling, and an Ed Morrow goaltend that was a millisecond too late.
OK thanks. And actually we got that lead up to 9 when Sacar hit a lay up with 4:40 to go.
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Just went back and watched. Howard came in at 8:42 when we were up 8. Seton Hall had just scored 5 quick points, a Myles Powell 3 that hit every part of the rim before falling, and an Ed Morrow goaltend that was a millisecond too late.
Cool, thanks for the clarity. So *maybe* the SHU bum-rush wash in full force already, but what happened afterwards....after all the good stuff that happened before, was truly disappointing.
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I hope we lose to Georgetown so we can be perfect down the stretch.
I hope we lose to Georgetown and then lose our BET opener and then lose our NCAA tourney opener. That'll show everyone!!!
This entire thread should be renamed "Scoop takes."
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What “substitutions” should he have made?
Brendan for Joey is the only one I can think of. Also, JC should be firmly planted on the bench moving forward. Sacar running point while Markus was sitting with 3 fouls worked just fine.
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Brendan for Joey is the only one I can think of. Also, JC should be firmly planted on the bench moving forward. Sacar running point while Markus was sitting with 3 fouls worked just fine.
A while I’m Scream sees the big picture. Sacar running the point while Markus sits for the win
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Our guys all defer to Markus when he's in the game. And when Markus is on, he is really good. But when Markus is off, the whole team tends to follow. Tonight, he was clearly off.
Regardless of the exact score when Wojo put him back in, it was a mistake. We were treading water with him in, then we built a big lead with him out. Wojo needed to show some confidence in the guys who built the big lead. Instead, he put Markus back in, and the guys who'd built the lead went back into deferral mode.
I hope Wojo can turn this thing around, but the past three games have been ugly.
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Well, he needs to be asked..."You have said, this is all on you, yet the same things keep happening...explain that". He sounds unbelieveably upbeat in the post game, makes me f'n sick.
Stop. Teams are fragile. He has to be upbeat. We will be fine. I’m probably more frustrated than you, because the outright BE title was there for the taking and we laid three eggs. We lost one opportunity, but two more await...the BET and the NCAAs.
Maybe a worse seed will ease some of the pressure on these guys. MU as a #2 or #3 would have been an obvious over-seed, and we could suffer some serious embarrassment, protected or not. Maybe a #5 or #6 is better anyway.
The script is set...people are getting down on them...this is still an extremely dangerous tournament team...Don’t laugh, but just remember...a certain HOF coach recently took a massively trailing group into huddle and told them they were going to win an unwinnable game....and they did the impossible. Wojo just may have made a similar speech on the macro level to our guys. He has reason to be positive...based on the totality of a season.
As a horse handicapper, I love when a horse with back-class and solid past performances throws a clunker or two. Maybe he caught a sealed track where he couldn’t utilize his closing kick. Maybe there was a dearth of pace to set up his late run. Show me a multiple-length defeat with an excuse, and i’ll show you a horse to bet on next time at a palatable price. Wojo is right to be really high on these guys when the short-sighted are jumping ship.
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Markus ain't a pg? Where he gonna play in the nba? 2 guard ? Lol this team has collapsed. Sad to see.
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For me, this season will be a colossal failure if we lose in the round of 64. To go from being one win/one Nova loss away from a BE title, a top 10 ranking late in the season, and show nothing for it...that would be really really bad. Not that getting to the round of 32 is a huge accomplishment, but the Woj era needs to start getting tangible accomplishments asap.
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Just moments later, Howard was in the game and the lead was halved. It may have started before he came back in, but he looked broken all night. We were flying without him. Sacar had settled down, Sam was in control, just let it ride. Putting Markus back in was a mistake.
If it was same situation with Heldt or Cain in for Theo or Joey Wojo would have stuck with the sub for the duration - or until they needed a legit breather.
Howard has been figured out by the last 3 coaches/teams. Interestingly, 3 slightly different approaches but all worked. Conference tournament means the 3rd time we play someone. By then everyone will have figured him out and he'll need more bench time.
I say for the last game of the season, start Sacar, Bailey, Sam, Joey and Morrow - and give Theo's minutes to Matt. Have Markus come off the bench for the 16-12 segment and if he lights it up while playing within the offense and has zero turnovers and zero "no passes" to open cutters, then he can play more. If not, maybe he gets another 4 mins in the 2nd half if we're up by a huge margin.
In fact, part of me also wants to see Joey on the bench a bit more as well. maybe it should be Sacar, Bailey, Sam, Morrow and Matt?
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I maaaaay have had to choose between Ash Wednesday services and watching the game and I maaaaay have made the wrong choice.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/26BRG2SLVQM2VX6qA/giphy.gif)
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I was at the game. They were playing so well without Markus. That is not a slam on Markus, but Markus was not playing his A game and sometimes a coach who likes to give the hot guy (Markus) the green light ought to give him the red light when he is just not shooting but also playing poorly and let him sit on the bench. That was the worst 6-7 minutes (18-0 run) of basketball since the Kansas game. I know this team is better than the last 3 games and as many have said we really don't have a point guard. Hopefully Kobe and Greg will help in that area next season. If we don't fix this it will be a short tournament season.
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+ a lot
This game was under control without Markus. It started falling apart as soon as Markus came back in. Maybe coincidental, but sure looked like the difference to me.
(Not taking away from Markus overall, just today I think he should have stayed on the bench)
Agreed. I thought the offense had a nice pace going to it with Sacar. It was a little methodical, but the ball seemed to move better. When Markus came in, it was a lot of dribbling and he took a shot immediately.
It just felt like Markus was pushing the pace and the offense got helter skelter. Also, we started throwing up some really bad shots with under a minute left. I had to double check the clock to see if there was only 10 seconds left. We didn’t have much poise.
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For me, this season will be a colossal failure if we lose in the round of 64. To go from being one win/one Nova loss away from a BE title, a top 10 ranking late in the season, and show nothing for it...that would be really really bad. Not that getting to the round of 32 is a huge accomplishment, but the Woj era needs to start getting tangible accomplishments asap.
This +1000. This turn is really awful, but it can be redeemed in the NCAA. I'd rather be a 3 seed than a 6, but if we get to the Sweet 16 either way I'm fine.
If we win one, given this team, then I think Wojo will have chalked up another B- season. Good enough to keep the hangers hanging-on.
If we lose in the first round, completing a late season collapse, then there are some bigger problems.
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Our guys all defer to Markus when he's in the game. And when Markus is on, he is really good. But when Markus is off, the whole team tends to follow. Tonight, he was clearly off.
Regardless of the exact score when Wojo put him back in, it was a mistake. We were treading water with him in, then we built a big lead with him out. Wojo needed to show some confidence in the guys who built the big lead. Instead, he put Markus back in, and the guys who'd built the lead went back into deferral mode.
I hope Wojo can turn this thing around, but the past three games have been ugly.
I think this is spot on and perfectly summarizes what we saw last night. You could almost see Sam’s confidence drop when Markus came back. He was so less certain and deliberate because he really does defer to MH so much so he started forcing bad shots
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If it was same situation with Heldt or Cain in for Theo or Joey Wojo would have stuck with the sub for the duration - or until they needed a legit breather.
Howard has been figured out by the last 3 coaches/teams. Interestingly, 3 slightly different approaches but all worked. Conference tournament means the 3rd time we play someone. By then everyone will have figured him out and he'll need more bench time.
I say for the last game of the season, start Sacar, Bailey, Sam, Joey and Morrow - and give Theo's minutes to Matt. Have Markus come off the bench for the 16-12 segment and if he lights it up while playing within the offense and has zero turnovers and zero "no passes" to open cutters, then he can play more. If not, maybe he gets another 4 mins in the 2nd half if we're up by a huge margin.
In fact, part of me also wants to see Joey on the bench a bit more as well. maybe it should be Sacar, Bailey, Sam, Morrow and Matt?
I agree, but when the other team doubles up on Markus we still fail to find the open guy.
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Markus has to be the most hated Naismith candidate ever.
If yall want to bench Markus you need top realize that our teams ceiling drops from top 10 team to NCAA bubble team. Maybe we make less mistakes but we aren't going to win many games.
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I think this is spot on and perfectly summarizes what we saw last night. You could almost see Sam’s confidence drop when Markus came back. He was so less certain and deliberate because he really does defer to MH so much so he started forcing bad shots
So Sam's confidence dropped cause Markus entered the game? And you could see it?
BTW, he actually hit a three point shot soon after he entered.
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Markus has to be the most hated Naismith candidate ever.
If yall want to bench Markus you need top realize that our teams ceiling drops from top 10 team to NCAA bubble team. Maybe we make less mistakes but we aren't going to win many games.
I've never seen anything quite like it in all my years on Scoop. Amazing.
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So Sam's confidence dropped cause Markus entered the game? And you could see it?
BTW, he actually hit a three point shot soon after he entered.
He absolutely played with less certainty. Wasn’t hard to see honestly.
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He absolutely played with less certainty. Wasn’t hard to see honestly.
And is that because of Markus? Doubtful. Is it because he started missing shots that he was hitting earlier? Very likely.
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Markus has to be the most hated Naismith candidate ever.
If yall want to bench Markus you need top realize that our teams ceiling drops from top 10 team to NCAA bubble team. Maybe we make less mistakes but we aren't going to win many games.
It is exceedingly strange how much of a punching bag Markus has become. We literally have people here talking about how much he has sucked the last three games - one of which he scored 33 points.
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And is that because of Markus? Doubtful. Is it because he started missing shots that he was hitting earlier? Very likely.
Yes. And that’s not me blaming Markus at all. But yes. He was in total control and rhythm until Markus was inserted.
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Markus has to be the most hated Naismith candidate ever.
If yall want to bench Markus you need top realize that our teams ceiling drops from top 10 team to NCAA bubble team. Maybe we make less mistakes but we aren't going to win many games.
This. From November 23rd until Feb 23rd this team went 20-2 with only two losses to StJ.
That’s remarkable. That happened in large part because of Markus being an All American candidate. That happened with the ball in his hands most of the time and his two worst games in that stretch were the only two losses.
It’s fine to criticize his shortcomings, humans are innately negative. It’s not fine to do so while not realizing what he’s done for and meant to this team. It’s downright idiotic to argue benching him or taking him off the ball or doing anything else that drastically changes why this team won in the first place.
I’ve said it before, the ball needs to be in his hands turnovers be damned. That is what gives him the best chance to succeed, which aligns with the teams best chance to succeed.
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Only frustrated fans would argue against that.
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Yes. And that’s not me blaming Markus at all. But yes. He was in total control and rhythm until Markus was inserted.
I guess if we ignore the fact that he actually hit a shot after he was inserted that's the case. But we really shouldn't ignore that now should we.
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Markus has to be the most hated Naismith candidate ever.
If yall want to bench Markus you need top realize that our teams ceiling drops from top 10 team to NCAA bubble team. Maybe we make less mistakes but we aren't going to win many games.
I don't think anyone is saying Markus should sit indefinitely. But his plus/minus last night was awful. The team was playing better without him well into the second half. Calling for him to have had less PT last night in the final minutes makes sense.
It's the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. We extended our lead with Markus sitting. Sam was showing signs of life we haven't seen from him in a while. And we had fewer turnovers than in the first half (low bar there, though). If you're getting the results you want, regardless of the lineup, there's no need to change it.
Then there's this weird consistency he's had in the closing minutes of games this year. Even coming out of timeouts he's taking bad shots, losing the ball, and making bad decisions. I don't know what's causing it, but it's painfully obvious that he's not the same player with 2 minutes to go as he is earlier in the game. Acknowledging that in gameplanning and when drawing up plays isn't insulting to Markus; it's good coaching.
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Again, Wojo waited until Seton Hall had halved the lead to bring in Markus. What was working had stopped working. Arguably, he may have waited too long to bring Markus back.
I also don't remember the bad shots Markus took at the end of the game. He missed two wide open threes. I remember a lot of bad shots that Sam took at the end of the game.
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The Markus discussion tends to be a "he plays or he sits" deal, when the solution is neither of those.
I don't pin the Creighton game on him. They wouldn't have even been in the game if not for him.
But against Nova, and again last night, it became evident he was too amped up, trying to force the issue too much. That's where Woj needs to pull him for a tick, calm him down, and get him back in the game. There has been ample opportunity to do that. Hell, there were 2 TV timeouts last night where he could have pulled him for a minute and brought him back in.
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Markus = McNeal. Both look grate on Saturday mornin's at da Y, hey?
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Again, Wojo waited until Seton Hall had halved the lead to bring in Markus. What was working had stopped working. Arguably, he may have waited too long to bring Markus back.
I also don't remember the bad shots Markus took at the end of the game. He missed two wide open threes. I remember a lot of bad shots that Sam took at the end of the game.
This. (Although I think I remember one not-great 3 Markus took. But maybe not.)
But against Nova, and again last night, it became evident he was too amped up, trying to force the issue too much. That's where Woj needs to pull him for a tick, calm him down, and get him back in the game. There has been ample opportunity to do that. Hell, there were 2 TV timeouts last night where he could have pulled him for a minute and brought him back in.
This makes a lot of sense. How would Markus have responded if Wojo had put his arm around him and said, "I'm gonna give you a minute to catch your breath"? Probably OK. It is a coach's job to find ways to work with a star player to affect change without delivering a major shot to the ego. Definitely easier to write that sentence than to make it happen, but I agree with your thesis here.
Again though, down the stretch yesterday Markus was nowhere near our biggest problem.
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Markus has to be the most hated Naismith candidate ever.
If yall want to bench Markus you need top realize that our teams ceiling drops from top 10 team to NCAA bubble team. Maybe we make less mistakes but we aren't going to win many games.
You are confusing “hate” with “we were on a roll without him last night so maybe we should have kept the same lineup.“
Those are two VERY different things...and you know that.
I love watching Markus, and look forward to seeing him to become MU’s all-time leading scorer. But last night, we were better with him on the bench.
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Again, Wojo waited until Seton Hall had halved the lead to bring in Markus. What was working had stopped working. Arguably, he may have waited too long to bring Markus back.
I also don't remember the bad shots Markus took at the end of the game. He missed two wide open threes. I remember a lot of bad shots that Sam took at the end of the game.
If I remember correctly, I think most of Sam's bad shots came after we were already down. When Markus came back into the game, with the lead dwindling, his first shot was a deep 3 that he missed. Seton Hall got the board and scored immediately. On the next possession, Markus drove into 2 defenders, lost the ball, and then Powell hit that big 3 that really made the crowd go nuts.
I'm not saying we lost because of Markus Howard, our NPOY candidate. But I am saying I think limiting his minutes/involvement down the stretch could have helped us.
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You are confusing “hate” with “we were on a roll without him last night so maybe we should have kept the same lineup.“
Those are two VERY different things...and you know that.
I love watching Markus, and look forward to seeing him to become MU’s all-time leading scorer. But last night, we were better with him on the bench.
But we weren't on a roll. SHU cut the lead to 8. It actually then increased over the next four minutes, with Markus on the floor, to 9 after Sacar's layup.
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But we weren't on a roll. SHU cut the lead to 8. It actually then increased over the next four minutes, with Markus on the floor, to 9 after Sacar's layup.
So they cut slightly into the lead...which we had built while Markus was on the bench. In the big picture, we were still on a roll because the lead grew over that several minutes before Markus came back.
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So they cut slightly into the lead...which we had built while Markus was on the bench. In the big picture, we were still on a roll because the lead grew over that several minutes before Markus came back.
In the big picture, we won 23 games with Markus as our leader.
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In the big picture, we won 23 games with Markus as our leader.
I totally get that, and if you'd read my post a few back, you would see that I'm not calling for Wojo to bench him the rest of the season. I'm just talking about what we did with him on the bench last night.
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If I remember correctly, I think most of Sam's bad shots came after we were already down. When Markus came back into the game, with the lead dwindling, his first shot was a deep 3 that he missed. Seton Hall got the board and scored immediately. On the next possession, Markus drove into 2 defenders, lost the ball, and then Powell hit that big 3 that really made the crowd go nuts.
I'm not saying we lost because of Markus Howard, our NPOY candidate. But I am saying I think limiting his minutes/involvement down the stretch could have helped us.
You are misremembering. When Markus came back into the game, Markus took a deep but open three and missed. Seton Hall did not score, Powell missed a contested three point jumper. The next possession was Joey's missed dunk. Cale then scored a layup. Next possession Sam missed a forced jumper. There was a TV timeout, then Shavar Reynolds hit that 2 pointer at the buzzer that hit every part of the rim before falling, then we scored 5 straight points to extend the lead to 9.
What I think you might be thinking of is 5 minutes later, long after Howard had been brought in. This is part of what I'm talking about, Markus has 30 bad seconds in the middle of being brought back and somehow it turns into "bringing Markus back lost the game for us."
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You are misremembering. When Markus came back into the game, Markus took a deep but open three and missed. Seton Hall did not score, Powell missed a contested three point jumper. The next possession was Joey's missed dunk. Cale then scored a layup. Next possession Sam missed a forced jumper. There was a TV timeout, then Shavar Reynolds hit that 2 pointer at the buzzer that hit every part of the rim before falling, then we scored 5 straight points to extend the lead to 9.
What I think you might be thinking of is 5 minutes later, long after Howard had been brought in. This is part of what I'm talking about, Markus has 30 bad seconds in the middle of being brought back and somehow it turns into "bringing Markus back lost the game for us."
Semantics in my opinion. The 'lead' is a function of SHU continuing to score and us getting bogged down on O. This happened at 9:45 left. We went from 59 points to 64 points in the end. SHU had a great run beginning at 440. May or may not have mattered if we had some O in the last 10 mins.
So if the bogged down O lost the game -- Markus was a big change at the time that the O disappeared TONIGHT. I love the kid, but last night the team played worse on O with him in. I also think Morrow was playing great...he was a change to O too that seemed to negatively impact us.
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You are misremembering. When Markus came back into the game, Markus took a deep but open three and missed. Seton Hall did not score, Powell missed a contested three point jumper. The next possession was Joey's missed dunk. Cale then scored a layup. Next possession Sam missed a forced jumper. There was a TV timeout, then Shavar Reynolds hit that 2 pointer at the buzzer that hit every part of the rim before falling, then we scored 5 straight points to extend the lead to 9.
What I think you might be thinking of is 5 minutes later, long after Howard had been brought in. This is part of what I'm talking about, Markus has 30 bad seconds in the middle of being brought back and somehow it turns into "bringing Markus back lost the game for us."
Simple question. Do you think we played better overall last night when Markus was in the game or on the bench?
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You are misremembering. When Markus came back into the game, Markus took a deep but open three and missed. Seton Hall did not score, Powell missed a contested three point jumper. The next possession was Joey's missed dunk. Cale then scored a layup. Next possession Sam missed a forced jumper. There was a TV timeout, then Shavar Reynolds hit that 2 pointer at the buzzer that hit every part of the rim before falling, then we scored 5 straight points to extend the lead to 9.
What I think you might be thinking of is 5 minutes later, long after Howard had been brought in. This is part of what I'm talking about, Markus has 30 bad seconds in the middle of being brought back and somehow it turns into "bringing Markus back lost the game for us."
I knew it was after a timeout. I didn't realize it was that late in the game, though. Markus' play there did hurt us in a big way at a critical point. The turnover followed by the Powell 3 is a big swing. And that kind of mental error is not unique to last night. For whatever reason, he has struggled late in games this year. Last night was just another case in point.
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Simple question. Do you think we played better overall last night when Markus was in the game or on the bench?
In the second half we played better when Markus was on the bench. That doesn't mean that Markus was the cause. Given the result, I think Wojo waited too long to bring him back. Instead of easing back into the game, he was put in a situation where he needed to stop a Pirate run. I don't think keeping him out longer would have changed the result.
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At the 4:40 left mark, MU was up nine. Per ESPN's play by play:
MU had one turnover in next 4:40, but missed nine straight shots.
Sam 0 for 4
Markus 0 for 2, with the single turnover
Joey 0 for 1
Sacar 0 for 1
Theo 0 for 1
In the 18 to 0 run, SH scored five points at free throw line and Powell scored 10. For game he had 1/2 of SH's points.
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Nova lost 3 in a row to basically the same competition. Was it time for Jay Wright to go??
Does Wojo have 2 national championships in the past 3 years like Jay Wright? Did Wojo just lose 6 of his top 8 players from last year?
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Not that simple. We had a 7 point lead when Howard picked up his 3rd foul and for the most part treaded water until he came back into the game.
After Anim made a layup at around the 5 minute mark, everything fell apart but not all on Markus.
Hall layup.
Joey was blocked on a weak jumper, transition 3.
Sam misses a 3, Hall with a layup.
Howard missed 3 and a turnover leads to 5 more Hall points.
Sam misses 3 more three attempts and game over.
Our shot selection down the stretch was awful. Just about everyone of them were outside our players comfort zones by a few feet.
We fell apart down the stretch against 3 desperate teams. Not good. A large part of that is on Coach.
On the bright side, good to see Bailey hit some shots and Sacar showing some much needed ball handling skills.
Simple question. Do you think we played better overall last night when Markus was in the game or on the bench?
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In the second half we played better when Markus was on the bench. That doesn't mean that Markus was the cause. Given the result, I think Wojo waited too long to bring him back. Instead of easing back into the game, he was put in a situation where he needed to stop a Pirate run. I don't think keeping him out longer would have changed the result.
Thank you!
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I just put up a thread dedicated to what really happened after Markus got back into the game.
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Again, Wojo waited until Seton Hall had halved the lead to bring in Markus. What was working had stopped working. Arguably, he may have waited too long to bring Markus back.
I also don't remember the bad shots Markus took at the end of the game. He missed two wide open threes. I remember a lot of bad shots that Sam took at the end of the game.
Yah, its tough. You've got to live and die with Markus. Most of the time you're going to live. Have to take the good with the bad. But I probably would have taken Markus out after his back to back possessions late in the game when he drove deep into the trees without a plan and tripped (TO), and then I believe next possession hucked up a deep and very contested 3. He just didn't have it last night. We played significantly better without him last night.
This team is obviously a much better team with Markus. But sometimes a guy just doesn't have it.
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I guess if we ignore the fact that he actually hit a shot after he was inserted that's the case. But we really shouldn't ignore that now should we.
Clearly you are ignoring everything but that shot now aren’t you. You know, the part where he was 1 for 6 after Markus came back after being on fire with Markus on the bench. Selective ignoring. Nice
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Clearly you are ignoring everything but that shot now aren’t you. You know, the part where he was 1 for 6 after Markus came back after being on fire with Markus on the bench. Selective ignoring. Nice
Not ignoring it at all. In fact I addressed it already - he cooled off. I'm not going to blame it on a lack of confidence when Markus came back into the game when there really is no evidence that's the case at all.
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Not ignoring it at all. In fact I addressed it already - he cooled off. I'm not going to blame it on a lack of confidence when Markus came back into the game when there really is no evidence that's the case at all.
The evidence of Sam playing better with Markus out isn’t just limited to last night. It’s clear he defers to Markus. Most times he should. Most times that works out. I Sam’s uncertainty as a product of wanting to be assertive but feeling like he should defer. It lead to uncharacteristically bad shot selection. But I have no issues whether you agree or not