Today's Eye on College Basketball podcast had a brief discussion about the fact that Marquette has only won three league regular season championships--Great Midwest in 1994, CUSA in '03, Big East in '13.
Matt Norlander quickly pointed out that we only joined a conference in the last thirty years and they briefly talked about the move from independent to conference affiliations generally in the 80s and 90s.
Although I was toddling around the MECCA in those days, I was too young to remember the move from being an Independent to (briefly) the Midwestern Conference and then the Great Midwest, and really even the start of CUSA.
For those that remember, what was the perception of joining a conference at the time? Was it universally seen as a good thing, or did some people think it was a mistake? Were those first few conferences seen as good places for us at the time, or was it more of a feeling about not getting totally left out in the cold so it was the best that we could do?
While we wait for the Villanova game tonight, I'd love to hear some recollections about that period of time and Marquette's place in it all.
It was completely depressing joining the MCC. Nothing symbolized the downfall of a once great program than joining that group. Staying independent just wasn't a realistic option any longer, but man. Conference games with Loyola and Detroit?
I don't think anyone realistically thought the Big East was an option back then - mostly because of geography. But I think people thought the old Metro Conference (with Louisville, Memphis and the like) would have been a better possibility. But I don't know if that was even considered.
But it turns out that we ended up in basically the Metro when we left to form the Great Midwest a couple years later. That felt much better and more our style. Conference USA was a positive expansion of the Great Midwest so that was good too.
Agree with Fluffy that it was pretty depressing being in the MCC.
By then, people were resigned to the fact that conferences were the only viable option to survive, and many sensed that we probably waited too long to get into a better position. The GMC was a great relief, as it returned us toward where we belonged, and C-USA was generally viewed as another move upward, albeit with lots of dead weight toward the bottom.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 27, 2019, 04:39:07 PM
Agree with Fluffy that it was pretty depressing being in the MCC.
By then, people were resigned to the fact that conferences were the only viable option to survive, and many sensed that we probably waited too long to get into a better position. The GMC was a great relief, as it returned us toward where we belonged, and C-USA was generally viewed as another move upward, albeit with lots of dead weight toward the bottom.
Had there been previous possibilities for us to join other (better) conferences? Or had we just held out too long? Any regrets, in other words?
And, what happened with the MCC--we weren't there long, so did we know the GMC was coming together almost as soon as we started in the MCC?
It is interesting that we were in the same conference as Butler and Xavier all those years ago, took divergent paths but ended up getting to the same place.
The MCC was probably the equivalent of a slightly better Atlantic 10 conference back in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Butler (long before Brad Stevens), Dayton, Detroit, Evansville, Loyola-Chicago, Marquette, St. Louis and Xavier, I think.
Xavier was pretty much the only worthwhile team at the time. Pete Gillen led the Muskateers to two NCAA appearances (including a Sweet 16) during MU's two seasons in the MCC. I don't believe any other program did anything of note. More of a faint ripple in the world of college hoops than a big splash. Nonetheless, it was an important step for Marquette.
"Great" is no hyperbole
The Great Midwest Conference, meanwhile, represented a giant leap forward into the college basketball limelight.
The GMC initially brought together Cincinnati, DePaul, MU, Memphis, St. Louis and UAB (plus Dayton a couple years later). Of those six teams, three made the NCAA tourney in Year One. That included a Final Four appearance by Cincy (led by Bob Huggins and future NBA players Nick Van Exel and Corie Blount) and an Elite Eight Memphis team featuring none other than Penny Hardaway. A big-time debut, for sure.
Cincinnati returned to the Elite Eight the next season, while Marquette and Memphis made Sweet 16 appearances in the final two seasons of the conference. Following the 1993-94 season, 4 of 6 teams earned NCAA bids.
The first national conference
The birth of Conference USA in 1995 represented an even more audacious challenge to the traditional power conferences. Cincinnati, DePaul, Houston (from 1996-97 onward), Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, St. Louis, South Florida and Tulane.
Cincinnati dominated from the beginning, finishing 1st in the conference standings each of the first seven seasons. Huggins added 10 straight NCAA bids, a Sweet 16 and another Elite Eight appearance.
Louisville made 7 of 10 NCAA tourneys, including a Sweet 16, Elite Eight and a Final Four. MU earned 4 NCAA bids, including the Final Four under Tom Crean and Dwyane Wade. Memphis was still very good. DePaul and St. Louis were actually relevant, earning 4 NCAA bids between them. Even Tulane and South Florida were occasionally competitive.
Takeaways
At the time MU joined the MCC, the writing on the wall seemed clear -- that there was no future for independents in college basketball. It was a move that had to be made.
Both the Great Midwest and CUSA were strong basketball-focused conferences (likely modeled on the original Big East). it was also great to see some continuity between the teams who made the move along with Marquette. That's especially true of Cincinnati and later Louisville, which led to some of the greatest rivalry games in recent memory.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2019, 04:27:11 PM
It was completely depressing joining the MCC. Nothing symbolized the downfall of a once great program than joining that group. Staying independent just wasn't a realistic option any longer, but man. Conference games with Loyola and Detroit?
I don't think anyone realistically thought the Big East was an option back then - mostly because of geography. But I think people thought the old Metro Conference (with Louisville, Memphis and the like) would have been a better possibility. But I don't know if that was even considered.
But it turns out that we ended up in basically the Metro when we left to form the Great Midwest a couple years later. That felt much better and more our style. Conference USA was a positive expansion of the Great Midwest so that was good too.
Agree 100%
Quote from: MUMountin on February 27, 2019, 04:57:38 PM
Had there been previous possibilities for us to join other (better) conferences? Or had we just held out too long? Any regrets, in other words?
And, what happened with the MCC--we weren't there long, so did we know the GMC was coming together almost as soon as we started in the MCC?
It is interesting that we were in the same conference as Butler and Xavier all those years ago, took divergent paths but ended up getting to the same place.
Supposedly we were invited to join the original Big East......or at least discussions were had......don't think Al wanted to do it.........
Also agree the MCC was depressing, as was the impact on overall scheduling it created. For example, North Carolina no longer wanted a home and home with MU because we were a lowly MCC team.
I really think this and the coach hiring at the time were among many incompetent moves by Bill Cords who really didn't have a vision for the program.
as others have mentioned the days of being an independent were almost over. Before the BigEast was formed a decade earlier there were probably more than 70 independents. Not unusual to have 4-5 of them highly ranked.
By the late 80's there were probably less than 20. With MU, Notre Dame, and DePaul being the bigger names.
Remember this occurred during the Dukiet era. At the time the MU program was quickly approaching the prestige level of a Detroit or Evansville.
The Great Midwest was a decent spot to hang until the Metro joined up into C-USA. But while decent at the top, there were a lot of lower level programs. Or lower than I thought Marquette should be grouped with. Anyone else remember Southern Miss selling a home date, and playing a home game against MU in Green Bay. If memory serves, they blew us out by 20+.
To me, there wasn't really a heck of a lot of difference between a Sunday night game in Evansville, or a road trip to Fort Worth in front of 2,000 spectators.
Quote from: MuMark on February 27, 2019, 05:23:17 PM
Supposedly we were invited to join the original Big East......or at least discussions were had......don't think Al wanted to do it.........
That is what I've heard as well. At the time of the initial discussions, MU was still a powerhouse and the original BE teams were historically weak. Al supposedly said "no thanks," which probably seemed like the right answer at the time.
If the initial discussions had taken place just a couple of years later ('79 or '80, with the conference starting up in '81 or '82), we might have been there from the beginning.
I just wanted to add a word of thanks to this discussion. As a much more recent MU fan than most on here, I was missing a lot of these details. This has the makings of a classic Scoop thread and perhaps required reading for new (yet, hardcore) fans.
Quote from: MUMountin on February 27, 2019, 04:57:38 PM
And, what happened with the MCC--we weren't there long, so did we know the GMC was coming together almost as soon as we started in the MCC?
No I don't think they knew the GMC was coming together. But I think a couple things happened. First, I recall MU hoping that DePaul was going to join the MCC with them, but they didn't. DePaul was a huge rival back then and they kept in contact about the future. Second, Cincinnati and Memphis were not very pleased with Louisville throwing their weight around the Metro Conference and decided to leave. Finally Kevin O'Neill HATED the MCC. Couldn't wait to get out of there. And he was right.
It seemed like it came out of the blue, but I'm sure conversations were happening for awhile.
The GMC was very good for MU at the time. With only 6 teams, they only had 5 home dates locked in, which allowed for plenty of solid NC games in that era. The GMC was a big upgrade and the teams were ranked and represented in the tournament.
It's so weird, perceptions of conferences. At the time of GMC, CUSA no talk of power 6 and TV contracts I was just happy to beat Cincy every 6th time. There was no national comparison of conferences just teams.
Think about the old Big East. This year only MU, UL and Cincy would be ranked. And Cincy just got ranked this week. Weird.
Kind of thought of the MCC as a necessary evil. As a student those 2 years, much more interest in big non-league opponents like Michigan the year after they won the title than the league games. MU was kind of in an unofficial conference in the 80s with home-and-homes every year with DePaul, Notre Dame, Dayton and Southwest Louisiana. I was more interested in those games than the MCC games.
GMC definitely an upgrade. Being paired with DePaul, who was still somewhat of a thought on the national stage, Cincy and Memphis made for more good league games than bad. UAB had some name recognition, too.
One thing I can add to the conversation that hasn't been specifically mentioned yet is that I think the unofficial merger with the Metro to make CUSA was something that was being talked about behind the scenes even a few years before it came about. Best friend a UL fan, so went to just about every UL - DePaul game in the early 90s before they all ended up in CUSA, including the game where Kleinschmidt hit a 4-point play with seconds left in 95 with Garnett and Fields in the crowd (thought that might get DePaul going again, but Garnett went straight to the NBA, Fields got in a car crash, Joey Meyer turned down Oregon, and less than 2 years later he was gone, back to point). Because buddy was big UL fan, listened a lot to WHAS sports talk on the AM clear channel stick. Remember calling in to Van Vance's show in about '92 and asking him as an MU fan with a guy whose best friend who is a UL fan if there were ever a shot the GMC and Metro would merge. He said something like don't be surprised if that happens someday, sooner than you might think.
CUSA was also an upgrade, especially on the top. Add Louisville and for a few years Charlotte to the mix gave the league half-a-dozen teams that were serious about big-time buckets. Unfortunately the Harry's (Pitino term) or NASCAR division other than Memphis were more interested in trying to hit the lottery to make a second-tier FB bowl game than BKB. Wanna say one of those years the MU/Cincy division won like 31 of 36 against the NASCAR division.
As an aside, went to several CUSA tourneys in Louisville and Memphis. Had a blast every time. Do miss those. Could get tickets for the whole tourney for just a little bit more than a 100 bucks, and had friends living in Lexington could stay with for the tourney's in Louisville. NYC for the tourney in Brooklyn over Thanksgiving was also a blast, but a lot more expensive.
So while the 1st move seemed like a necessary evil, the successive moves were better.
Yeah the Conference USA formation happened due to the first big mega-conference realignment. The Metro lost Florida State and South Carolina, who were football independents at the time, to the ACC and SEC respectively. At the same time, Louisville, Cincinnati and Memphis, who were also football independents, wanted a conference for their football programs so the merger occurred, but Virginia Tech, VCU and Dayton were left out in the cold. Houston was invited instead because the SWC was breaking apart and they didn't want to go to the WAC like Rice, TCU and SMU were. Eventually other members joined as "football only" like East Carolina, and some of the non-football schools, like USF and UAB, formed football programs.
Quote from: Eye on February 28, 2019, 09:09:49 AM
As an aside, went to several CUSA tourneys in Louisville and Memphis. Had a blast every time. Do miss those. Could get tickets for the whole tourney for just a little bit more than a 100 bucks, and had friends living in Lexington could stay with for the tourney's in Louisville. NYC for the tourney in Brooklyn over Thanksgiving was also a blast, but a lot more expensive.
I never went to the CUSA Tourney, but attended the GMC Tourney in Memphis in '93. Great crowds, great atmosphere at the Pyramid (aka the "Tomb of Doom"). The final between Cinci and Memphis was one of the loudest basketball games I ever attended.
I LOVED the GMC. Look back at 1994. 4 of the 7 made the NCAAs and the non-conf sked was on fire. It was a thing of beauty.
Wash State (N)
UWGB
Illinois
Ohio State
Northwestern
@Northern
@Bucky
@Arizona (Damon Key casually dropping 36, NBD)
South Florida (huh?)
West Va (at 11am, most kids didn't sleep the night before, for a freshman, that was the drunkest I ever saw ppl)
@Va Tech (We have a such a weird history with them...Ace Custis, Buzz)
Notre Dame
San Francisco
UWM (the perfect palette cleanser before the Dance)
Went to the last CUSA tourney in Memphis in '05. Our travel agent screwed up, said we were staying right staying right next to the gym. Well, unfortunately we stayed right next to the Pyramid instead of the Forum (still my favorite NBA/major college arena had been to before the trips this year to Barclay's and Fiserv).
Awful tourney for MU, Diener hurt, Novak and Marcus Jackson trying to handle the ball against a TCU press and out about 3 hours after our plane landed. But also the tourney where Washington missed 2 of 3 free throws after getting fouled at the horn to give UL a 1-point win in the title game.
Also sat right behind the DePaul bench for one of their games and heard Leitao as about the most foul-mouthed coach I'd ever heard. He must've said MF to players 20 times in that game. (never sat close enough to hear O' Neill during a game). And South Florida had the Sun Dolls.
Also the tourney where a UC fan we were sitting next to was 100 percent sure Huggins was drunk on the bench. Huggins never left the bench that whole game and they got killed by I want to say Southern Miss.
Outside of the games, Beale Street was fantastic. Also the second biggest one-day temperature drop I've ever experienced. It was 78 when we left Memphis. It was 19 when we landed in Chicago (largest was Louisville to La Crosse after the UL - UK game in '09, was 66 in Louisville, 12 below in La Crosse). We flew from Memphis to Chicago with two fantastically beautiful girls from Mississippi. One of them asked if they were going to need a winter coat in Chicago. Um, yeah, probably need a winter coat in Chicago in March.
Cords did a masterful job moving MU up conferences. The GMC was always a temporary holding place.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 28, 2019, 09:42:56 AM
Cords did a masterful job moving MU up conferences. The GMC was always a temporary holding place.
Agree. Cords is no people person. Pat Richter, he wasn't, but he could block and tackle and X&O the heck out of the AD position. Nearly every move he made for Marquette netted a positive return.
This is scoop at its best. Sharing stories and history on our program. I could have told you all the conferences MU was in but I didn't know the context of how/why they got there and what the perceptions were at the time.
Just thought of one more thing. Today is the 23rd anniversary of MU's first big road win in CUSA, an 80-79 double OT at Louisville in which Aaron Hutchins hit about a 30-foot, right-sideline 3 while double teamed to win it. 1st time I saw MU in person outside of the Midwest. Pretty sure I was only MU fan on one side of Freedom Hall. Went with buddy and his now wife. They're leaving tomorrow to take their 2 kids, 12 and 11, to their first UL game.
For the record I was completely opposed to going to a conference, any conference. I wrote 2 letter to Majerus in opposition, giving specious arguments such our success and uniqueness as an independent. [Note we wrote letters on paper in those days}. In retrospect it was a good, sound decision for all the reasons others have mentioned. But one guy was completely opposed...me.
By the way Rick never wrote me back
Quote from: loid walden on February 28, 2019, 10:48:08 AM
For the record I was completely opposed to going to a conference, any conference. I wrote 2 letter to Majerus in opposition, giving specious arguments such our success and uniqueness as an independent. [Note we wrote letters on paper in those days}. In retrospect it was a good, sound decision for all the reasons others have mentioned. But one guy was completely opposed...me.
By the way Rick never wrote me back
Cable TV supplanted syndicated, so the lay of the land changed. MU owned syndicated but it became irrelevant as cable needed to lock up 24/7 content.
Hutchins was one of the most exciting players I've ever watched in a Marquette uniform. The run to the 1996-97 Conference USA tournament title was a blast. I was actually in Vegas at the time and the vibe there during March Madness is electric. I believe Hutchins was named tourney MVP.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 27, 2019, 06:03:00 PM
I really think this and the coach hiring at the time were among many incompetent moves by Bill Cords who really didn't have a vision for the program.
I may be wrong, but I thought Dukiet was a Raymond's hire. Also, Majerus left Marquette in a lurch, and the Athletic Department needed to find a replacement asap, basically we had to make offers to coaches we knew wouldn't say no.
MCC was terribly depressing, having to sweat wins out versus Evansville and Detroit sucked.
Quote from: lurch91 on February 28, 2019, 11:06:22 AM
I may be wrong, but I thought Dukiet was a Raymond's hire. Also, Majerus left Marquette in a lurch, and the Athletic Department needed to find a replacement asap, basically we had to make offers to coaches we knew wouldn't say no.
MCC was terribly depressing, having to sweat wins out versus Evansville and Detroit sucked.
There was a dysfunctional oversight team, labeled the Marquette Athletic Board, that was responsible for the morass that was the 1980's. Cords was eventually able to dismantle this committee and enter into the age of a truly professional athletic department.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 28, 2019, 10:55:00 AM
Cable TV supplanted syndicated, so the lay of the land changed. MU owned syndicated but it became irrelevant as cable needed to lock up 24/7 content.
Correct and conference play became necessary as all the good teams were in conferences and it made scheduling after Jan 1 really hard.
CUSA of old was actually a pretty good conference. As a kid growing up watching MU in the 1990s and early 2000s I always thought it was one of the better basketball conferences in the country.
Cincinnati when they were elite
Memphis when they were really good
Louisville in the early Pitino years
DePaul when they were decent
SLU during the SpoonBall years
MU during O'Neill and early Crean years
Charlotte when they were consistently making the tournament
but C-USA had more than it's fair share of duds.
Although the Blue Division was obviously the strength of the conference. The White only so-so, and the Red outright sucked. Wave that inaugural Red championship flag with pride Tulane. They eventually tried to salvage that with reworked American and National divisions.
Worst division names until the BigTen stole the crown with Leaders & Legends.
Quote from: Coleman on February 28, 2019, 11:33:41 AM
CUSA of old was actually a pretty good conference. As a kid growing up watching MU in the 1990s and early 2000s I always thought it was one of the better basketball conferences in the country.
Cincinnati when they were elite
Memphis when they were really good
Louisville in the early Pitino years
DePaul when they were decent
SLU during the SpoonBall years
MU during O'Neill and early Crean years
Charlotte when they were consistently making the tournament
Don't forget UAB, especially during the Mike Anderson years.
As an aside on all of this and some perspective, my father-in-law is a professor at UAB and I've gone to a number of their games. It is weird now to think that we were at one point in the same conference as them. Imagine seeing all these teams (us, Cinci, Louisville, etc.) as conference foes and then watch as they one-by-one moved on to (mostly) bigger and better things, only to be replaced with the likes of Tulane, FAU, and North Texas. Brutal.
Quote from: loid walden on February 28, 2019, 10:48:08 AM
For the record I was completely opposed to going to a conference, any conference. I wrote 2 letter to Majerus in opposition, giving specious arguments such our success and uniqueness as an independent. [Note we wrote letters on paper in those days}. In retrospect it was a good, sound decision for all the reasons others have mentioned. But one guy was completely opposed...me.
By the way Rick never wrote me back
Rick apparently listened since we didn't join a conference until Bob Dukiet was coach.
Rick promoted conference affiliation early on.. He greased the skids.
Quote from: loid walden on February 28, 2019, 03:11:56 PM
Rick promoted conference affiliation early on.. He greased the skids.
I see. I was unaware of that.
Joining the Midwestern Collegiate Conference was truly depressing, but Marquette did all the right things to keep moving up in conferences and eventually ended where we are today, which may not have happened without the progression that was taken.
How many of you knew that Notre Dame was actually a part of the Midwestern Collegiate conference from 1982-1995, in all sports except men's basketball and football? So for the non-revenue sports it was actually a much better conference than it was for men's basketball.
Quote from: MUMountin on February 28, 2019, 12:33:52 PM
Don't forget UAB, especially during the Mike Anderson years.
As an aside on all of this and some perspective, my father-in-law is a professor at UAB and I've gone to a number of their games. It is weird now to think that we were at one point in the same conference as them. Imagine seeing all these teams (us, Cinci, Louisville, etc.) as conference foes and then watch as they one-by-one moved on to (mostly) bigger and better things, only to be replaced with the likes of Tulane, FAU, and North Texas. Brutal.
I went to one MU@UAB game during the CUSA years, probably around '92 or '93. Their on-campus arena is a great size for a college game - around 8,500 - and it was packed that night, since both MU and UAB were pretty good at the time. Good times.
You're right though - the days when they were a conference foe seem so long ago, and it must have been a depressing transition for their fans to watch.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on February 28, 2019, 12:25:26 PM
but C-USA had more than it's fair share of duds.
Although the Blue Division was obviously the strength of the conference. The White only so-so, and the Red outright sucked. Wave that inaugural Red championship flag with pride Tulane. They eventually tried to salvage that with reworked American and National divisions.
Worst division names until the BigTen stole the crown with Leaders & Legends.
East Carolina and Southern Miss were always the two head-scratchers to me. The fact that East Carolina was even able to then sneak their way in somehow to the American is perplexing. Whoever runs that place must have a lot of dirt on a lot of different University Presidents/ADs.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 28, 2019, 11:12:17 AM
There was a dysfunctional oversight team, labeled the Marquette Athletic Board, that was responsible for the morass that was the 1980's. Cords was eventually able to dismantle this committee and enter into the age of a truly professional athletic department.
My partner at the time was on this board and based on what I learned then, Cords was the heart of the dysfunction. A poor communicator who specialized in cronyism and had no vision.
Quote from: lurch91 on February 28, 2019, 11:06:22 AM
I may be wrong, but I thought Dukiet was a Raymond's hire. Also, Majerus left Marquette in a lurch, and the Athletic Department needed to find a replacement asap, basically we had to make offers to coaches we knew wouldn't say no.
MCC was terribly depressing, having to sweat wins out versus Evansville and Detroit sucked.
I was getting my career going and was hundreds and hundreds of miles from Milwaukee during the late-'80s, so I don't remember much of the Dukiet Error other than we sucked. I was hardly ever able to see MU on TV back then ... which seems like a good thing in retrospect.
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2019, 10:52:54 PM
I was getting my career going and was hundreds and hundreds of miles from Milwaukee during the late-'80s, so I don't remember much of the Dukiet Error other than we sucked. I was hardly ever able to see MU on TV back then ... which seems like a good thing in retrospect.
Yes...if ever there was a good time to be away, that was it.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on February 28, 2019, 12:25:26 PM
but C-USA had more than it's fair share of duds.
Although the Blue Division was obviously the strength of the conference. The White only so-so, and the Red outright sucked. Wave that inaugural Red championship flag with pride Tulane. They eventually tried to salvage that with reworked American and National divisions.
Worst division names until the BigTen stole the crown with Leaders & Legends.
I don't know why C-USA ever went with "American" and "National" for their division names as they were effectively the "North" and "South" Divisions. IIRC:
American was MU, SLU, DePaul, Louisville, Cincinnati, Charlotte, and East Carolina.
National was Memphis, UAB, USF, Houston, TCU, Southern Miss, and Tulane.
My tenure at MU (2002-2006) straddled the transition between C-USA and the Big East. I can remember the National Division being referred to pejoratively as the "NASCAR Division" because of geography and because it was widely perceived to be the weaker of the two divisions.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 28, 2019, 06:08:22 PM
My partner at the time was on this board and based on what I learned then, Cords was the heart of the dysfunction. A poor communicator who specialized in cronyism and had no vision.
Fair on Cords but I am sure much of that was to bring that in-house. Communication was not his strong point either.
But, the Athletic Board was also around on the Hank to Rick to Newell to Dukiet transitions.
Quote from: MUMountin on February 27, 2019, 04:07:49 PM
Today's Eye on College Basketball podcast had a brief discussion about the fact that Marquette has only won three league regular season championships--Great Midwest in 1994, CUSA in '03, Big East in '13.
Matt Norlander quickly pointed out that we only joined a conference in the last thirty years and they briefly talked about the move from independent to conference affiliations generally in the 80s and 90s.
Although I was toddling around the MECCA in those days, I was too young to remember the move from being an Independent to (briefly) the Midwestern Conference and then the Great Midwest, and really even the start of CUSA.
For those that remember, what was the perception of joining a conference at the time? Was it universally seen as a good thing, or did some people think it was a mistake? Were those first few conferences seen as good places for us at the time, or was it more of a feeling about not getting totally left out in the cold so it was the best that we could do?
While we wait for the Villanova game tonight, I'd love to hear some recollections about that period of time and Marquette's place in it all.
I was a DJ at WMUR 1130AM radio when we announced MU moving from independent to MCC. The reporter that called it in and we put live on the radio....a certain MU student named Len Kasper, current Chicago Cubs announcer. Somewhere I have that call on the radio on cassette tape. It was a pretty big deal when MU ended their Indy status.
Quote from: The Lens on February 28, 2019, 09:46:14 AM
Agree. Cords is no people person. Pat Richter, he wasn't, but he could block and tackle and X&O the heck out of the AD position. Nearly every move he made for Marquette netted a positive return.
Correct.
I was in a few meetings with him with some of the big whigs of Milwaukee and he held his own and would not hesitate to blast someone to our MU in a positive light.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 28, 2019, 06:08:22 PM
My partner at the time was on this board and based on what I learned then, Cords was the heart of the dysfunction. A poor communicator who specialized in cronyism and had no vision.
Specialized in cronyism? I'd love to hear the examples of this...sorry, but I worked for the man for 5+ years, including the last 18 months as a direct report, and I will respectfully disagree with that assertion. He wasn't a people person, but I don't get the cronyism comment at all, or the lack of vision comment.
He was early on to Mike Deane needed change, hired Crean, got us through the conference stuff and pushed hard for real budgets from the school.
I would of loved to join the Big East when Notre Dame did, but that did not happen. I was always jealous of the ACC having a conference tournament. I thought that was a huge advantage over other teams. Once, the other conferences starting having conference tournaments the independents were dead. We needed to be in a conference.
Did sports for MUR in 89 and 90 and has some classes with LK. Must've just missed you Cheeks.
Quote from: Eye on March 02, 2019, 12:12:58 AM
Did sports for MUR in 89 and 90 and has some classes with LK. Must've just missed you Cheeks.
Roommate of mine was a comm major, he brought me in to do a weekly show with him. A lot of fun, mostly playing music, but we happened to be the guys on the air when the announcement to MCC happened and LK called into the show to file his report live on the air.
I remember that Deane predicted Marquette would end up in a "Catholic Conference" along with the likes of Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Dayton, Saint Louis, etc. He wasn't that far off...
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 02, 2019, 10:10:54 AM
I remember that Deane predicted Marquette would end up in a "Catholic Conference" along with the likes of Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Dayton, Saint Louis, etc. He wasn't that far off...
ABD
Quote from: PTM on March 02, 2019, 11:04:09 AM
ABD
I know ABD is a major mantra around here, but Dayton is on the edge of being a top 60 kenpom team for the 5th year in the last 6 (I didn't look any further back). Any Big East expansion talk would have to include them
Quote from: SaveOD238 on March 02, 2019, 11:17:12 AM
I know ABD is a major mantra around here, but Dayton is on the edge of being a top 60 kenpom team for the 5th year in the last 6 (I didn't look any further back). Any Big East expansion talk would have to include them
God if we included them I'd love nothing more than that UDFlyer poster to come back and eat Sh*t at his predictions
Quote from: PTM on March 02, 2019, 11:04:09 AM
ABD
If that stands for Anyone But DePaul, count me in.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2019, 04:27:11 PM
I don't think anyone realistically thought the Big East was an option back then - mostly because of geography.
Marquette was invited to be a founding member of the Big East. Hank turned it down.
That guy did more harm to the Marquette program than anyone else.
Nice guy? Sure. But he was a disaster as Head Coach and AD.
David Mamet expressed it best:
Blake: Let me have your attention for a moment! 'Cause you're talking about what? You're talking about...[puts out his cigarette]...bitching about that sale you shot, some son of a bitch don't wanna buy land, somebody don't want what you're selling, some broad you're trying to screw, so forth. Let's talk about something important. [to John Williamson] Are they all here?
John: All but one.
Blake: Well, I'm going anyway. Let's talk about something important. [to Shelley] Put that coffee down! Coffee is for closers only. [Shelley scoffs] You think I'm f#cking with you? I am not fucking with you. I'm here from downtown. I'm here from Mitch and Murray. And I'm here on a mission of mercy. Your name's Levene?
Shelley: Yeah.
Blake: You call yourself a salesman, you son of a bitch?
Dave: I don't gotta listen to this sh1t. [stands up to leave]
Blake: You certainly don't, pal, 'cause the good news is you're fired. The bad news is you've got -- all you've got -- just one week to regain your jobs, starting with tonight. Starting with tonight's sit. [sardonically] Oh, have I got your attention now? [Dave Moss sits back down] Good. 'Cause we're adding a little something to this month's sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody wanna see second prize? Second prize's a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired. [Dave, George, and Shelley glance uncomfortably at each other] Do you get the picture? Are you laughing now? You got leads. Mitch and Murray paid good money. Get their names to sell them! You can't close the leads you're given, you can't close sh1t, you are sh1t, hit the bricks, pal, and beat it 'cause you are going out!
Shelley: The leads are weak.
Blake: The leads are weak. F#ckin' leads are weak? You're weak. I've been in this business 15 years.
Dave: What's your name?
Blake: F#CK! YOU! That's my name! You know why, mister? 'Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight, I drove an $80,000 BMW. That's my name! [to Shelley] And your name is "you're wanting". And you can't play in a man's game. You can't close them. [at a near whisper] Then go home and tell your wife your troubles. [to everyone again] Because only one thing counts in this life! Get them to sign on the line which is dotted! You hear me, you f#ckin' faggots? [Blake flips over a blackboard which has two sets of letters on it: ABC, and AIDA.] A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Closing. Always be closing. Always be closing! A-I-D-A. Attention, Interest, Decision, Action. Attention -- do I have your attention? Interest -- are you interested? I know you are, 'cause it's f#ck or walk. You close, or you hit the bricks! Decision -- have you made your decision for Christ?! And action. A-I-D-A. Get out there! You got the prospects coming in; you think they came in to get outta the rain? A guy don't walk on the lot lest he wants to buy. They're sitting out there waiting to give you their money! Are you gonna take it? Are you man enough to take it? [Shelley glares.]
Dave: Incredible.
Blake: [to Moss] What's the problem, pal? You, Moss. [Blake sits down.]
Dave: You're such a hero, you're so rich. How come you're comin' down here an' waste your time with such a bunch of bums?
Blake: [smiles condescendingly.] You see this watch? [Blake takes off his gold watch.] You see this watch?
Dave: Yeah.
Blake: That watch cost more than your car. I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see, pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing.
Nice guy? I don't give a sh!t. Good father? F#ck you! Go home and play with your kids. [to everyone] You wanna work here? Close! [to George Aaronow] You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?! You don't like it, leave. I can go out there tonight, the materials you got, make myself $15,000! Tonight! In two hours! Can you? Can you? Go and do likewise! A-I-D-A! Get mad, you son of a bitches! Get mad! You know what it takes to sell real estate? [He pulls something out of his brief case. He is holding two brass balls on string] It takes brass balls to sell real estate. [He puts them away after a pause.] Go and do likewise, gents. The money's out there. You pick it up, it's yours. You don't, I got no sympathy for you. You wanna go out on those sits tonight and close, close, it's yours. Not, you're gonna be shining my shoes. And you know what you'll be saying, bunch of losers, sitting around in a bar. [in a mocking weak voice] "Oh yeah, I used to be a salesman, it's a tough racket." [He takes out large stack of red index cards tied together with string from his briefcase.] These are the new leads. These are the Glengarry leads. And to you, they're gold. And you don't get them. Why? Because to give them to you is just throwing them away. [He hands the stack to John Williamson.] They're for closers. I'd wish you good luck, but you wouldn't know what to do with it if you got it. [to Moss as he puts on his watch again] And to answer your question, pal, why am I here? I came here because Mitch and Murray asked me to, they asked for a favor. I said, the real favor, follow my advice and fire your f#ckin' a$$ because a loser is a loser.
Quote from: Coleman on February 28, 2019, 11:33:41 AM
SLU during the SpoonBall years
Not sure about this. I am pretty certain Spoonhour was still at SW MO State at that time
Spoonhour coached in the Great Midwest
He began at Saint Louis in 1993, which was the second year of the GMWC
Quote from: SaveOD238 on March 02, 2019, 11:17:12 AM
I know ABD is a major mantra around here, but Dayton is on the edge of being a top 60 kenpom team for the 5th year in the last 6 (I didn't look any further back). Any Big East expansion talk would have to include them
Dayton encourages and embraces the mid-month label.
ABD. Enough.
Quote from: Jon on March 02, 2019, 01:06:02 PM
Marquette was invited to be a founding member of the Big East. Hank turned it down.
That guy did more harm to the Marquette program than anyone else.
Nice guy? Sure. But he was a disaster as Head Coach and AD.
David Mamet expressed it best:
Blake: Let me have your attention for a moment! 'Cause you're talking about what? You're talking about...[puts out his cigarette]...bitching about that sale you shot, some son of a bitch don't wanna buy land, somebody don't want what you're selling, some broad you're trying to screw, so forth. Let's talk about something important. [to John Williamson] Are they all here?
John: All but one.
Blake: Well, I'm going anyway. Let's talk about something important. [to Shelley] Put that coffee down! Coffee is for closers only. [Shelley scoffs] You think I'm f#cking with you? I am not unnatural carnal knowledgeing with you. I'm here from downtown. I'm here from Mitch and Murray. And I'm here on a mission of mercy. Your name's Levene?
Shelley: Yeah.
Blake: You call yourself a salesman, you son of a bitch?
Dave: I don't gotta listen to this sh1t. [stands up to leave]
Blake: You certainly don't, pal, 'cause the good news is you're fired. The bad news is you've got -- all you've got -- just one week to regain your jobs, starting with tonight. Starting with tonight's sit. [sardonically] Oh, have I got your attention now? [Dave Moss sits back down] Good. 'Cause we're adding a little something to this month's sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody wanna see second prize? Second prize's a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired. [Dave, George, and Shelley glance uncomfortably at each other] Do you get the picture? Are you laughing now? You got leads. Mitch and Murray paid good money. Get their names to sell them! You can't close the leads you're given, you can't close sh1t, you are sh1t, hit the bricks, pal, and beat it 'cause you are going out!
Shelley: The leads are weak.
Blake: The leads are weak. F#ckin' leads are weak? You're weak. I've been in this business 15 years.
Dave: What's your name?
Blake: F#CK! YOU! That's my name! You know why, mister? 'Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight, I drove an $80,000 BMW. That's my name! [to Shelley] And your name is "you're wanting". And you can't play in a man's game. You can't close them. [at a near whisper] Then go home and tell your wife your troubles. [to everyone again] Because only one thing counts in this life! Get them to sign on the line which is dotted! You hear me, you f#ckin' handsome persons? [Blake flips over a blackboard which has two sets of letters on it: ABC, and AIDA.] A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Closing. Always be closing. Always be closing! A-I-D-A. Attention, Interest, Decision, Action. Attention -- do I have your attention? Interest -- are you interested? I know you are, 'cause it's f#ck or walk. You close, or you hit the bricks! Decision -- have you made your decision for Christ?! And action. A-I-D-A. Get out there! You got the prospects coming in; you think they came in to get outta the rain? A guy don't walk on the lot lest he wants to buy. They're sitting out there waiting to give you their money! Are you gonna take it? Are you man enough to take it? [Shelley glares.]
Dave: Incredible.
Blake: [to Moss] What's the problem, pal? You, Moss. [Blake sits down.]
Dave: You're such a hero, you're so rich. How come you're comin' down here an' waste your time with such a bunch of bums?
Blake: [smiles condescendingly.] You see this watch? [Blake takes off his gold watch.] You see this watch?
Dave: Yeah.
Blake: That watch cost more than your car. I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see, pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing. Nice guy? I don't give a sh!t. Good father? F#ck you! Go home and play with your kids. [to everyone] You wanna work here? Close! [to George Aaronow] You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?! You don't like it, leave. I can go out there tonight, the materials you got, make myself $15,000! Tonight! In two hours! Can you? Can you? Go and do likewise! A-I-D-A! Get mad, you son of a bitches! Get mad! You know what it takes to sell real estate? [He pulls something out of his brief case. He is holding two brass balls on string] It takes brass balls to sell real estate. [He puts them away after a pause.] Go and do likewise, gents. The money's out there. You pick it up, it's yours. You don't, I got no sympathy for you. You wanna go out on those sits tonight and close, close, it's yours. Not, you're gonna be shining my shoes. And you know what you'll be saying, bunch of losers, sitting around in a bar. [in a mocking weak voice] "Oh yeah, I used to be a salesman, it's a tough racket." [He takes out large stack of red index cards tied together with string from his briefcase.] These are the new leads. These are the Glengarry leads. And to you, they're gold. And you don't get them. Why? Because to give them to you is just throwing them away. [He hands the stack to John Williamson.] They're for closers. I'd wish you good luck, but you wouldn't know what to do with it if you got it. [to Moss as he puts on his watch again] And to answer your question, pal, why am I here? I came here because Mitch and Murray asked me to, they asked for a favor. I said, the real favor, follow my advice and fire your f#ckin' a$$ because a loser is a loser.
By far the best 8 minutes of Alec Baldwin's acting career.
Quote from: lurch91 on February 28, 2019, 11:06:22 AM
I may be wrong, but I thought Dukiet was a Raymond's hire. Also, Majerus left Marquette in a lurch, and the Athletic Department needed to find a replacement asap, basically we had to make offers to coaches we knew wouldn't say no.
MCC was terribly depressing, having to sweat wins out versus Evansville and Detroit sucked.
true, Raymonds hired Dukiet but, he had hired another coach, a good one who had won a few in the NCAA tournament (was it Rose from Texas something directional?). Anyhow, the new hire had a presser here and told us how excited he was and his wife fcouldnt wait to get here. Then he flew back to his employer and asked to be released from his contract..., his next presser he was crying and said he was going to stay put and help his current players blah, blah, blah. Then Hank started grasping at straws.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Newell_(basketball)
Mike Newell from Arkansas Little Rock
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/05/sports/sports-people-staying-put-i.html
It made the ny times
Newell was really close to being here. Probably closer than the Done Deal with Shaka.
Newell had even gone through the process of interviewing members of the coaching staff, and offering positions on his Marquette staff.
Newell had been an assistant at Oklahoma with Billy Tubbs. In either the '84 or '85 season MU knocked off a ranked Syracuse at home (featuring Pearl Washington).
Oklahoma played in a nationally televised game (back when those meant something) in the Carrier Dome a couple weeks later.
He spent quite a bit of time talking with the MU staff on that gameplan. Ends up Oklahoma goes into the Dome and knocks off Syracuse. Vaulted them into the top 20 where they stayed for the next 7-8 seasons.