Greetings fellow MU fans,
I am new to the board and wanted to say I really enjoy reading the posts and the amazing insight I have read here. I was a season ticket holder from 2001-2013 (Buzz's last season). I recently moved to Raleigh, NC, so I miss going to games, but I still keep VERY close tabs on the team. Moving out of state and relying strictly on ESPN and Fox to get my MU news, this is great outlet for me!
Forgive me if this has been discussed in the past, but I would like to know the boards thoughts on the lack of respect that MU and the Big East receives on a national scale.
I know that respect comes when you win a championship (Villanova), but are there concerns with coaches and recruits defecting to Power 5 conferences, because of the hype that ESPN gives those conferences and their players? I feel Markus is not getting the credit he deserves for the season he has put together. IMO he is every bit the Player of the Year candidate that Zion is, yet he is often listed behind guys like Ethan Happ and others.
Say what you will about how and why Buzz left, but he moved on to the ACC, Chris Mack left a very solid Xavier program to go to the ACC (I realize Louisville is a Blue Blood).
I guess my concern comes from Big East schools being under recognized when it comes to individual accolades, rankings and more importantly tournament seeding. Is there any concern that this lack of respect and devaluing from ESPN and the like, will cause Big East coaches to leave and the conference to become a stepping stone for Power 5 schools.
I only mention this because I love the direction Wojo has the program headed. I would hate for Wojo to move on to a Power 5 conference because of unfair seeding and a lack of accolades for players that deserve it, which will ultimately lead to lesser recruits and diminished program and conference.
I appreciate your comments and if this has been addressed in other threads, please direct me there.
edit: paragraphs are your friend.
Simple, ESPN does not show Big East games so they want to bury them, Fox is doing fine
IMO Marquette has recently proven to be the definition of a stepping stone job. It is a very high tier job, but the grass is always greener. Buzz to VT was always a head scratcher for me, but it's hard to argue that Crean to IU didn't make career sense. Honestly I'm hoping Wojo has enough success at MU that Duke even pursues him... likely means he accomplished some big things here.
- Agree with everything else you said. ESPN and East coast bias will never be our friend. Plus... Zion.
Quote from: Ron Swanson on February 24, 2019, 09:19:11 PM
Greetings fellow MU fans,
I am new to the board and wanted to say I really enjoy reading the posts and the amazing insight I have read here. I was a season ticket holder from 2001-2013 (Buzz's last season). I recently moved to Raleigh, NC, so I miss going to games, but I still keep VERY close tabs on the team. Moving out of state and relying strictly on ESPN and Fox to get my MU news, this is great outlet for me!
Forgive me if this has been discussed in the past, but I would like to know the boards thoughts on the lack of respect that MU and the Big East receives on a national scale. I know that respect comes when you win a championship (Villanova), but are there concerns with coaches and recruits defecting to Power 5 conferences, because of the hype that ESPN gives those conferences and their players? I feel Markus is not getting the credit he deserves for the season he has put together. IMO he is every bit the Player of the Year candidate that Zion is, yet he is often listed behind guys like Ethan Happ and others. Say what you will about how and why Buzz left, but he moved on to the ACC, Chris Mack left a very solid Xavier program to go to the ACC (I realize Louisville is a Blue Blood). I guess my concern comes from Big East schools being under recognized when it comes to individual accolades, rankings and more importantly tournament seeding. Is there any concern that this lack of respect and devaluing from ESPN and the like, will cause Big East coaches to leave and the conference to become a stepping stone for Power 5 schools. I only mention this because I love the direction Wojo has the program headed. I would hate for Wojo to move on to a Power 5 conference because of unfair seeding and a lack of accolades for players that deserve it, which will ultimately lead to lesser recruits and diminished program and conference.
I appreciate your comments and if this has been addressed in other threads, please direct me there.
Ron, I spend a ton of time in your area and in Big Ten cities as my kids play for ACC and Big Ten schools. The media coverage in your town is all ACC all the time, Go into any sports bar and that is all you see. Same in the Big Ten towns.
When you get away from those markets and go to the Northeast or places where the Big East teams are domiciled the coverage is more even handed. Great example in the last couple of years there have been several times we had 3 Big East teams in the Top 10.
Finally, in terms of recruiting, where the rubber meets the road, the Big East holds its own. The Blue Bloods are The Blue Bloods and it is always going to be hard to compete with a kid who wants to go to Carolina, Duke, Kentucky or Kansas no matter what conference. However , the Big East has consistently held its own with the best other high major schools. I talk to parents of recruits frequently on my travels and they actually view the Big East overall brand as very desirable place for their student athletes .
Finally, The Big East elected to enter into an agreement with Fox. While it was lucrative and has good production values, the simple facts are that ESPN is in more homes and thus more exposure. Big East does get some games on Fox Broadcast network and CBS . If Markus comes back next year I expect MU will participate in a disproportionate amount of those games. As he is must see TV.
Villanova winning two titles and getting recruiting classes of top level kids is helping the leagues cause and the fact is every single team in our league has a winning record this year and is full of mostly underclassmen. So the future for the league is very bright.
Big East got 2 one seeds only last season.
ESPN isn't going to impact our seeding.
SC will do their best to get it right........no matter what they do fans of certain schools and conferences will scream that their school or their conference wasn't getting " respect"....happens every year.....they can't win no matter what they do.
MU will in all likelihood be somewhere between a 3 and a 5. No reason to get up.in arms about 1 seed line.....if we finish strong and they give us a 6 or 7 seed then by all means bitch and moan but if we get a 4 when people think we should be a 3?
No big deal.
To hard to top a legend, the only thing that will stop Wojo from going back to Duke is if they do not want him, if they do want him is salary will be double or triple MU, so gone
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 24, 2019, 09:40:14 PM
To hard to top a legend, the only thing that will stop Wojo from going back to Duke is if they do not want him, if they do want him is salary will be double or triple MU, so gone
+1
I'd also argue MuMark that a 2 seed is more likely than a 5, but what a great argument to be able to have! We are likely a 3 or 4, barring running the table or losing out.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 24, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Simple, ESPN does not show Big East games so they want to bury them, Fox is doing fine
This
ESPN has it out for Fox and wants them dead. The BE is a cornerstone of FS1.
In reality ESPN and sports center have the least influence they have ever had, and it's falls every day as an estimated 10,000 people cord cut a day.
Point is ... don't worry about the lack of ESPN coverage. FS1 recently passed ESPN2 as the second largest cable sports network.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 24, 2019, 10:47:35 PM
This
ESPN has it out for Fox and wants them dead. The BE is a cornerstone of FS1.
In reality ESPN and sports center have the least influence they have ever had, and it's falls every day as an estimated 10,000 people cord cut a day.
Point is ... don't worry about the lack of ESPN coverage. FS1 recently passed ESPN2 as the second largest cable sports network.
ESPN is still king. In reality, they average MORE than 4 times as many viewers every day despite FS1 being in over 95% of the homes that have ESPN. There is no competition for the top sports network broadcasting nor will there be for a long, long time. In fact, currently ESPN is actually increasing its lead over FS1 in household coverage.
Of course they are going to promote their own properties, but despite the whining on Scoop, Marquette, Wojo, and Markus continue to get a lot of attention there.
Like it or not, the influence of ESPN is greater than ever.
I do not want this to happen but I am crazy curious. If the big east goes down the tubes is there any way MU could join the Big 12 in some odd way or another. Would it even be allowed
Quote from: Johnny B on February 24, 2019, 11:48:27 PM
I do not want this to happen but I am crazy curious. If the big east goes down the tubes is there any way MU could join the Big 12 in some odd way or another. Would it even be aloud?
I imagine most of the negotiations would be done quietly and behind closed doors. But yes, I think some vocal negotiations would occur and it wouldn't just be performed digitally.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 25, 2019, 12:04:01 AM
I imagine most of the negotiations would be done quietly and behind closed doors. But yes, I think some vocal negotiations would occur and it wouldn't just be performed digitally.
Ugh damnit
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 25, 2019, 12:04:01 AM
I imagine most of the negotiations would be done quietly and behind closed doors. But yes, I think some vocal negotiations would occur and it wouldn't just be performed digitally.
You beat me to it. Well played.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 24, 2019, 11:48:27 PM
I do not want this to happen but I am crazy curious. If the big east goes down the tubes is there any way MU could join the Big 12 in some odd way or another. Would it even be allowed
Kansas to the BigEast at an implosion of the Big12 is more likely than the BigEast "going down the tubes."
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 25, 2019, 12:43:06 AM
Kansas to the BigEast at an implosion of the Big12 is more likely than the BigEast "going down the tubes."
Agree, I see the next wave of football expansion killing off the Big 12. Luckily that is why the new Big East was formed, 9 like minded schools who prioritize basketball and DePaul. No one plays above the FCS level in football and its the biggest reason why the Big East has no good expansion options.
The conference may be having a bit of a down year, no 7 bids, but that happens to everyone now and then. PAC-12 has been down for years, SEC was only getting 3 or so a couple years ago. The bubble is soft this year so there is still a chance for 4 or 5 Big East teams but only one with a high seed due to the sudden Villanova implosion.
Quote from: MUMonster03 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:20 AM
Agree, I see the next wave of football expansion killing off the Big 12. Luckily that is why the new Big East was formed, 9 like minded schools who prioritize basketball and DePaul. No one plays above the FCS level in football and its the biggest reason why the Big East has no good expansion options.
The conference may be having a bit of a down year, no 7 bids, but that happens to everyone now and then. PAC-12 has been down for years, SEC was only getting 3 or so a couple years ago. The bubble is soft this year so there is still a chance for 4 or 5 Big East teams but only one with a high seed due to the sudden Villanova implosion.
Wasn't the idea floating around that the power conferences were considering leaving the NCAA in the next big round of expansion?
ESPN must hate the SEC, Big 12, B1G, and PAC 12. After all, the only player they talk about for NPOY is Zion. So obviously they hate other conferences.
Under what scenario would the Big East "go down the tubes?" Its member schools aren't closing. They're not dropping basketball or moving to Division 3.
I guess maybe a conference might invite Nova and Georgetown to join as basketball only members, or they might consider upgrading their football programs, but even then the remaining members would likely invite a couple more schools to join.
Kansas would be a perfect fit for the BE since they don't have a football team.
Quote from: Jockey on February 25, 2019, 01:52:00 PM
Kansas would be a perfect fit for the BE since they don't have a football team.
Kansas dropping football and joining the Big East has long been a pipe dream of mine. I think Villanova can be considered a blue blood now but they are new money. Add an old money blue blood to the mix and the conference gets a lot more credibility. Here's hoping the Mad Hatter can't turn things around for the Jayhawks.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 24, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
Simple, ESPN does not show Big East games so they want to bury them, Fox is doing fine
Also, The Power 5 is viewed a top dogs. Other leagues are labeled below them.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2019, 03:59:07 AM
Wasn't the idea floating around that the power conferences were considering leaving the NCAA in the next big round of expansion?
There are 66 teams in the P5. After the regular season and conference championships are played how may teams are included in the P5 "National Championship Tournament"? 32? 48? All 66? I don't think they'll want to mess with the NCAA Tournament. The country would lose interest real fast.
Quote from: MUMonster03 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:20 AM
Agree, I see the next wave of football expansion killing off the Big 12. Luckily that is why the new Big East was formed, 9 like minded schools who prioritize basketball and DePaul. No one plays above the FCS level in football and its the biggest reason why the Big East has no good expansion options.
The conference may be having a bit of a down year, no 7 bids, but that happens to everyone now and then. PAC-12 has been down for years, SEC was only getting 3 or so a couple years ago. The bubble is soft this year so there is still a chance for 4 or 5 Big East teams but only one with a high seed due to the sudden Villanova implosion.
LOL savage
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 25, 2019, 02:05:56 PM
Kansas dropping football and joining the Big East has long been a pipe dream of mine. I think Villanova can be considered a blue blood now but they are new money. Add an old money blue blood to the mix and the conference gets a lot more credibility. Here's hoping the Mad Hatter can't turn things around for the Jayhawks.
I would include Duke in that dream.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 25, 2019, 02:15:08 PM
There are 66 teams in the P5. After the regular season and conference championships are played how may teams are included in the P5 "National Championship Tournament"? 32? 48? All 66? I don't think they'll want to mess with the NCAA Tournament. The country would lose interest real fast.
Idk if their plan was to invite select others to join or if itd be a representative from each conference? just vaguely recall it being mentioned
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 25, 2019, 02:18:41 PM
I would include Duke in that dream.
Sure I would love Duke, but I honestly don't see any way that happens. The ACC currently is in no danger of being disbanded and is a much stronger basketball conference than the Big East. I don't see any possible motivation for Duke to leave the ACC. The Big 12 on the other hand is in danger of being disbanded, meaning Kansas will need a new home if it were to happen.
But I guess we are talking crazy pipe dreams that will likely never happen, so why the hell not?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
Idk if their plan was to invite select others to join or if itd be a representative from each conference? just vaguely recall it being mentioned
I thought that potential scenario involved the trimming of the P5 to the P4, but getting 16 teams in each conference and going back to a 64 team tourney, where its just all P4 teams. I think that's partially where the KU to Beast pipe dream came from, because the B12 would be the one getting gutted as it's the smallest, and most centrally located (WVU to ACC, ISU and KSU to Big 10, Texas, Oklahoma to SEC, other scraps to the PAC 12), and since football money runs everything, the worst football school, Kansas, could be left out. A lot of B12 schools would have to go kicking and screaming (splitting up the Kansas K-State rivalry, same with OU, OSU), but the $$$ lost not switching would be too great. I have no idea if this ever would or even could happen, I'm sure there would be astronomically large hurdles, it was just one of the football ruining everything conspiracy theories I heard after the last re-alignment.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 25, 2019, 02:18:41 PM
I would include Duke in that dream.
It could be a 1-1 swap. BE gets Blue Devils, ACC gets Blue Demons. Seems fair!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 25, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
Sure I would love Duke, but I honestly don't see any way that happens. The ACC currently is in no danger of being disbanded and is a much stronger basketball conference than the Big East. I don't see any possible motivation for Duke to leave the ACC. The Big 12 on the other hand is in danger of being disbanded, meaning Kansas will need a new home if it were to happen.
But I guess we are talking crazy pipe dreams that will likely never happen, so why the hell not?
I could see the Big Ten grabbing oklahoma and west virginia and going to 16. If i was BIG commish thats the direction i would look
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 25, 2019, 02:57:46 PM
I could see the Big Ten grabbing oklahoma and west virginia and going to 16. If i was BIG commish thats the direction i would look
Since these will all be football decisions, I don't think there's a chance that you could separate Oklahoma and Texas. Wherever this insane hypothetical goes, those two schools will be sticking together.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 25, 2019, 02:57:46 PM
I could see the Big Ten grabbing oklahoma and west virginia and going to 16. If i was BIG commish thats the direction i would look
You think the academic snobs in the Big Ten are going to seriously consider West Virginia?
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 25, 2019, 03:01:36 PM
Since these will all be football decisions, I don't think there's a chance that you could separate Oklahoma and Texas. Wherever this insane hypothetical goes, those two schools will be sticking together.
Possibly, big ten a big draw tho n nebraska although down a historic rival.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 25, 2019, 03:03:02 PM
Possibly, big ten a big draw tho n nebraska although down a historic rival.
Well we're talking about Kansas and Duke to the Beast so I guess anythings possible, I just don't see the SEC not sweeping up those two if the B12 does implode. Texas and Okla would also rather be in the SEC vs the B10 in that scenario.
Quote from: MUMonster03 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:20 AM
Luckily that is why the new Big East was formed, 9 like minded schools who prioritize basketball and DePaul.
A+ description
The Kansas to Big East pipe dream came from the belief that high major conference realignment is on pause until the Big 12's Grant of Rights expires (sometime between 2022 and 2026, can't remember). The thought is that without the Grant of Rights to bind them together, the Big 12 would be cannibalized by the other P5 conferences. The speculation always seemed to be that 16 was the magic number that the superconferences wanted to get to. After it has all its best teams poached, the Big 12 would either dissolve or take the best teams from the AAC and CUSA and become the new "best of the rest" conference. The hope was that Kansas wouldn't get poached by the ACC/SEC/B12/B1G and that without P5 level money, the university would decide to dissolve the football program and join the Big East in basketball. Like I said, crazy pipe dream at this point, but one that is at least theoretically plausible.
FWIW, I always thought the B12 cannibalization would be:
Texas/OU to B1G (best programs to most money)
TCU/West Virginia to SEC (best remaining football to best football conference)
Baylor/Iowa State to ACC (best remaining mix of academics and football)
Texas Tech/Oklahoma State/Kansas State/Kansas to PAC 12 (the leftovers)
Only way Kansas gets left out is if PAC 12 either doesn't go to 16, or they elect to go with more local options like Boise State, San Diego State, etc.
Quote from: Jockey on February 25, 2019, 01:52:00 PM
Kansas would be a perfect fit for the BE since they don't have a football team.
Les Miles just hired....he should do better than Charlie did years ago
While were throwing hypotheticals around also UConn could drop football and join. But even garbage football teams like ku and uconn still bring in enough revenue etc to warrant keeping the program do they not.
Quote from: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 03:57:27 PM
Les Miles just hired....he should do better than Charlie did years ago
Sir, I have to say, I am impressed that in the last 3 months or whatever, this version of your scoopness has surpassed the number of posts I have made in like 10 years. That is really hitting the old keyboard.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 25, 2019, 05:14:03 PM
While were throwing hypotheticals around also UConn could drop football and join. But even garbage football teams like ku and uconn still bring in enough revenue etc to warrant keeping the program do they not.
Kansas, yes. UConn no.
Kansas' football team allows them to be full members of the Big 12 which gives them access to the Big 12's lucrative tv deal. I don't remember exactly how much each school gets a year but I think its in the $25 million range.
UConn on the other hand only gets around $2 million a year being in the AAC (which is half of what Big East schools get despite not having football). IIRC, people have posted articles here that claim that UConn athletics is losing $7 million a year with football being responsible for a huge chunk of that.
With Oklahoma and Texas feuding when the BE and AAC were figuring what to do, Kansas, KSU and ISU to the Big East was very close to happening.
The addition of Tulane looks like a GREAT idea in retrospect hey?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 25, 2019, 08:37:41 PM
With Oklahoma and Texas feuding when the BE and AAC were figuring what to do, Kansas, KSU and ISU to the Big East was very close to happening.
While I love the current conference, that would have been an interesting development for sure. Inheriting in-state rivals and another pretty nice program is always a nice development.
Plus, it would have ended the Big 12 reign of Kansas...if only because it was defunct.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 25, 2019, 09:41:25 PM
While I love the current conference, that would have been an interesting development for sure. Inheriting in-state rivals and another pretty nice program is always a nice development.
Plus, it would have ended the Big 12 reign of Kansas...if only because it was defunct.
Instead the football schools got CUSA. I think we are better off.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 25, 2019, 08:21:20 PM
UConn on the other hand only gets around $2 million a year being in the AAC (which is half of what Big East schools get despite not having football). IIRC, people have posted articles here that claim that UConn athletics is losing $7 million a year with football being responsible for a huge chunk of that.
But the AAC is a Power 6 Conference!