But I wonder if Wojo shouldn't consider starting Ed for Theo? The biggest reason is to "save" some of Theo's fouls(Buzz did that with Davante). But maybe the bigger added benefit is Ed brings more offensively. Things are going great right now so it might not be the best idea to change things, but..i don't think this would impact them negatively and actually would only help them.
Quote from: muguru on February 12, 2019, 11:10:49 PM
But I wonder if Wojo shouldn't consider starting Ed for Theo? The biggest reason is to "save" some of Theo's fouls(Buzz did that with Davante). But maybe the bigger added benefit is Ed brings more offensively. Things are going great right now so it might not be the best idea to change things, but..i don't think this would impact them negatively and actually would only help them.
No way.
Sure sometimes Theo has two fouls before people find their seats. But he sets such a tone defensively it's huge.
Xavier blacked out the moment Theo was gone.
Today DePaul started hot but couldn't get the lead because any of their misses were basically on drives into Theos paint
Davante started on the bench because he had a 2 mm vertical and Buzz wanted to win the tip because that insures you cannot lose the number of possessions battle. That's the same reason Theo should start. Ed isn't winning a tip any time soon.
And tip-related, it really annoys me when teams put a guy on "our side" of the tip-off. We lost the Villanova & DePaul tips because they had guys in between Theo and our guys in our defensive half. Not a fan of that. It's BS, and that's a hill I'll die on.
No.
No.
No.
Repetition is the key to adult learning.
Doesn't matter.
Each young man is doing just fine in his current role.
If Wojo did decide to change it up, that would be just fine, too.
Nope.
However, Wojo has to be better with getting Matt heldt in earlier when he realizes the fouls are racking up. Matt can hold his own for stretches.
Also, I said earlier this season that I see Ed as the most important "role player" going forward if marquette is to win conference and make a run in the dance. I've been wrong so far
THANKS SACAR
But I still think theos tendency to grab fouls will become more evident w better competition and Ed becoming a near double double guy we dreamed him to be preseason might be the key late season out of nowhere contribution this squad needs
Cue the miracle multiple baseline 3s from Jamal in massive games crowd as an honorable mention after tonight :)
Forgot to mention, Theo is a bad man
A bigger question in my mind is whether Joey needs a (brief?) reprieve from starting, and, if so, who should replace him—likely Brendan, but could go a few different routes. He just has seemed out of it and I wonder if that could give him some space and time to straighten things out.
I'd be pretty surprised if Wojo changes a lineup that's winning consistently. The only adjustments I'd expect might be a quicker turn to Ed and Matt when Theo gets an early foul, and maybe more minutes for Brendan and Jamal if Joey continues to struggle.
Quote from: MUMountin on February 13, 2019, 12:23:43 AM
A bigger question in my mind is whether Joey needs a (brief?) reprieve from starting, and, if so, who should replace him—likely Brendan, but could go a few different routes. He just has seemed out of it and I wonder if that could give him some space and time to straighten things out.
I see where you're coming from but I think this would be a bad idea too.
Joey seems to be pressing and a bit in his own head with this rough little stretch.
There was a postgame a few weeks ago where wojo kind of called him out (after a good performance) and said that he needs to be more aggressive because he can take over games.
I think- although I'm only an amateur psychologist- that he was trying to get Joey to take that next step and become the third main guy w Markus and Sam. I also think wojo probably regrets this now.
Sacar has come on and Joey has looked a bit befuddled since that time. Imo the right play with Joey at that time, and even more so now, is to get back to making him realize that he is a freshman. Get him back to doing the basics- mainly defending well and being strong and helping sam out on the boards. Some have mentioned recently he's out worst defender- earlier in the year there were several games where he was much better and leading rebounder. Get him back to that and get him in the underdog role of being a freshman and needing to prove himself and maybe he has some Steve Novak 2003 impact type games when it matters most. He's definitely capable
I love you muguru
No. Because of Matt Heldt. Last night, Theo and Ed got in foul trouble. I was excited see Matt come in. No worries.
According to Pomeroy, MUs 2 foul participation rate is 9.8% versus a national average of 21.4%. Last year, MU was at 31.7%. It's a big reason why MU is so much better on defense, in that we don't have to play tentative and we have quality depth to sub in.
The rotation is fine.
No for either Theo or Joey. Don't mess with success. That said, the number of minutes can adjust as necessary.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 13, 2019, 06:20:23 AM
According to Pomeroy, MUs 2 foul participation rate is 9.8% versus a national average of 21.4%. Last year, MU was at 31.7%. It's a big reason why MU is so much better on defense, in that we don't have to play tentative and we have quality depth to sub in.
The rotation is fine.
;D
Ed brings more offensively?
I don't know about that. Both can get the drop down dunk. However, both are a back to the basket post up liability. Ed has a few roll in for him last night, but he can't shoot outside of 6'.
The only one who wants the ball in either of their hands in the post for some reason is Joe.
Ed is a better FT shooter, but Heldt is better than both. We have a week to split hairs and debate minutiae. To borrow from Bull Durham.....' Don't (mess) with a streak'
No.
Starting doesn't matter. We have the bench, adjust as needed.
No.
I think Ed is great, and I love the two headed monster that Theo and Ed provide, with an outstanding additional option of Heldt. (It was so satisfying last night to see our "third stringer" come in and provide impactful defense right out of the gate) However, Theo is the guy to start the game.
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2019, 05:13:54 AM
No. Because of Matt Heldt. Last night, Theo and Ed got in foul trouble. I was excited see Matt come in. No worries.
Excited is not the emotion that comes to mind when Matt enters. I'm not panic stricken either, I'm OK with it. But I'm not excited.
Quote from: muguru on February 12, 2019, 11:10:49 PM
But I wonder if Wojo shouldn't consider starting Ed for Theo? The biggest reason is to "save" some of Theo's fouls(Buzz did that with Davante). But maybe the bigger added benefit is Ed brings more offensively. Things are going great right now so it might not be the best idea to change things, but..i don't think this would impact them negatively and actually would only help them.
Why not start with Heldt and save them both?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2019, 08:48:43 AM
Excited is not the emotion that comes to mind when Matt enters. I'm not panic stricken either, I'm OK with it. But I'm not excited.
Matty played very well last night. He'd start for several of the BEast teams. The only difference now is that we're a Top 10, not an NIT caliber squad. Let's appreciate his contribution. Personally, I really look forward to his thunderous ovation on Senior Day.
Quote from: Marqevans on February 13, 2019, 09:02:29 AM
Why not start with Heldt and save them both?
Because you want to maximize their minutes. One never knows if Theo can give you 25+. Only way to find out is to have him out there. He and Ed come off on an 'as necessary' basis. And the milkman buys you credible time.
Quote from: jsglow on February 13, 2019, 09:06:19 AM
Because you want to maximize their minutes. One never knows if Theo can give you 25+. Only way to find out is to have him out there. He and Ed come off on an 'as necessary' basis. And the milkman buys you credible time.
Exactly. You sit Theo the first 4-5 min. He might still come in a get two quick fouls.
And if he comes in a plays foul free, you've just sat him for 4 minutes for no reason and started the game without your best defender
Hard to believe Theo is only a sophomore. Hopefully next year he will get less of those ticky tacky fouls as his reputation grows as a great shot blocker and a player the fans want to see on the floor.
I think Wojo should pull him after the refs make a perceived tough call that favors MU. For example, when they called DePaul for the foul on Markus' 3 pt shot at the start of the second half, I thought Wojo should have pulled Theo for about 1 min or so, so that the refs could call their make up call on someone else (maybe Matty). Theo got called for his 3rd foul on the next DePauk possession.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 12, 2019, 11:16:21 PM
Davante started on the bench because he had a 2 mm vertical and Buzz wanted to win the tip because that insures you cannot lose the number of possessions battle.
And that's how he became a two-time Big East Sixth Man of the year!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2019, 08:48:43 AM
Excited is not the emotion that comes to mind when Matt enters. I'm not panic stricken either, I'm OK with it. But I'm not excited.
This. Precisely this. Heldt plays the exact number of minutes we need him to. Wojo has had an excellent sense of it, too, whether it was putting him in the starting lineup over Luke in 2016-17, or planting him on the bench this season, or anything in between those extremes.
One fairly big reason we are 21-4 is that we have gotten quality play out of our center rotation. And now some folks actually want to change it ... with some actually calling for more Matt Heldt? Oy.
Quote from: jsglow on February 13, 2019, 09:04:33 AM
Matty played very well last night. He'd start for several of the BEast teams.
Which teams, glow? I'm not doubting it could be true, but I'm not seeing it, either.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2019, 11:26:41 AM
This. Precisely this. Heldt plays the exact number of minutes we need him to. Wojo has had an excellent sense of it, too, whether it was putting him in the starting lineup over Luke in 2016-17, or planting him on the bench this season, or anything in between those extremes.
One fairly big reason we are 21-4 is that we have gotten quality play out of our center rotation. And now some folks actually want to change it ... with some actually calling for more Matt Heldt? Oy.
Which teams, glow? I'm not doubting it could be true, but I'm not seeing it, either.
Yeah. I don't see him starting anywhere. SHU, DePaul, Georgetown, Providence, Xavier, Creighton all have far better bigs. He doesn't fit what Nova/SJU are trying to do. That leaves Butler. Maybe? I tend to doubt it.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2019, 11:26:41 AM
Which teams, glow? I'm not doubting it could be true, but I'm not seeing it, either.
St. John's? Just to take the tip?
Quote from: jsglow on February 13, 2019, 09:04:33 AM
Matty played very well last night. He'd start for several of the BEast teams. The only difference now is that we're a Top 10, not an NIT caliber squad. Let's appreciate his contribution. Personally, I really look forward to his thunderous ovation on Senior Day.
Bring lots of Kleenex for Wojo; he is really going to need it.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on February 13, 2019, 11:35:17 AM
Yeah. I don't see him starting anywhere. SHU, DePaul, Georgetown, Providence, Xavier, Creighton all have far better bigs. He doesn't fit what Nova/SJU are trying to do. That leaves Butler. Maybe? I tend to doubt it.
You guys are probably right. I'll amend and revise my remarks to be 'getting meaningful minutes.'
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 12, 2019, 11:16:21 PM
And tip-related, it really annoys me when teams put a guy on "our side" of the tip-off. We lost the Villanova & DePaul tips because they had guys in between Theo and our guys in our defensive half. Not a fan of that. It's BS, and that's a hill I'll die on.
That's part of the game. It's like complaining about double teaming. The tip is more than just out jumping a guy.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on February 13, 2019, 09:33:30 AM
I think Wojo should pull him after the refs make a perceived tough call that favors MU. For example, when they called DePaul for the foul on Markus' 3 pt shot at the start of the second half, I thought Wojo should have pulled Theo for about 1 min or so, so that the refs could call their make up call on someone else (maybe Matty). Theo got called for his 3rd foul on the next DePauk possession.
Great point. Several immediate makeup calls last night and Theo was on the receiving end of at least one.
Quote from: jsglow on February 13, 2019, 01:32:18 PM
You guys are probably right. I'll amend and revise my remarks to be 'getting meaningful minutes.'
That's possible, glow.
We all like Matt. Nice kid. Has done whatever his coaches and teammates have asked of him. Obviously loves being a Warrior. Seems like a great teammate. In general, however, the fewer minutes he gets the better it means we are because it means we don't have to play somebody with such limited ability at the 5.
The only reason to play Matt is if Theo and Ed are both in foul trouble. If Matt doesn't play, it means Theo and Ed stayed on the court, which greatly helps our chances of winning.
Just MHO, of course.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2019, 10:23:03 PM
The only reason to play Matt is if Theo and Ed are both in foul trouble.
Or we need a shot from half court
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 13, 2019, 10:33:44 PM
Or we need a shot from half court
Actually, Matt would be ideal in a role of late in the game when the other team is fouling, especially in an offensive-defensive situation. He makes his throws.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 13, 2019, 06:20:23 AM
According to Pomeroy, MUs 2 foul participation rate is 9.8% versus a national average of 21.4%. Last year, MU was at 31.7%. It's a big reason why MU is so much better on defense, in that we don't have to play tentative and we have quality depth to sub in.
The rotation is fine.
What does this stat measure?
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2019, 10:23:03 PM
That's possible, glow.
We all like Matt. Nice kid. Has done whatever his coaches and teammates have asked of him. Obviously loves being a Warrior. Seems like a great teammate. In general, however, the fewer minutes he gets the better it means we are because it means we don't have to play somebody with such limited ability at the 5.
The only reason to play Matt is if Theo and Ed are both in foul trouble. If Matt doesn't play, it means Theo and Ed stayed on the court, which greatly helps our chances of winning.
Just MHO, of course.
Of course you're right. My only point is that Matt is more than serviceable. And that fact with two guys now clearly ahead of him is one of the reasons we're a Top 10 team these days in contrast to only 2 years ago when Wojo's
best option was to start a Soph milkman over Luke beginning about now. Crazy to think about it. And I'm not bashing Luke because his skills were on the offensive end. But do all you guys remember the pick/roll nightmare and the idiotic claims by some here that Wojo couldn't coach D?
We live in blessed times today boys. And we never get hurt when Matty gives us 5 minutes. Luxury.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 14, 2019, 06:04:47 AM
What does this stat measure?
I'm not entirely sure of the denominator, but it shows how willing a coach is to let someone play with two fouls. Might be Minutes played with 2 fouls/Minutes with two fouls. I'm thinking it is cut off at halftime.
Quote from: muguru on February 14, 2019, 05:43:21 AM
Actually, Matt would be ideal in a role of late in the game when the other team is fouling, especially in an offensive-defensive situation. He makes his throws.
Or if free ice cream is on the line
Quote from: muguru on February 14, 2019, 05:43:21 AM
Actually, Matt would be ideal in a role of late in the game when the other team is fouling, especially in an offensive-defensive situation. He makes his throws.
Matt made his FTs when he was more in the flow of games because he was getting (too many) minutes. He has barely played this season; not sure it's fair to expect him to make 'em.
Ed actually has made some clutch FTs for us. And Bailey would give us better ballhandling.
Mostly, though, we have 3 outstanding FT shooters. Shouldn't be too difficult to get it to one of them in the final seconds, especially one of the Hausers, who are tall. Most times when we have been protecting a small lead in a close game, we have been able to do just that.
Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2019, 10:30:29 AM
Matt made his FTs when he was more in the flow of games because he was getting (too many) minutes. He has barely played this season; not sure it's fair to expect him to make 'em.
Ed actually has made some clutch FTs for us. And Bailey would give us better ballhandling.
Mostly, though, we have 3 outstanding FT shooters. Shouldn't be too difficult to get it to one of them in the final seconds, especially one of the Hausers, who are tall. Most times when we have been protecting a small lead in a close game, we have been able to do just that.
Yeah, I was surprised early in the year that Matt wasn't being put in for the last minute of a close game. But, it has almost always worked out so far, as most of the time one of the three Hs have ended up at the line or Morrow has made a few clutch FTs down the stretch. I do get nervous though about a hack-a-Theo strategy, but they have done a good job of keeping the ball away from him in those situations.
I do think that a contributing factor in the second St. John's loss was that when we were getting fouled in the midst of our second half comeback, there were several trips that it was Theo or Sacar going to the line instead of Howard, Hauser, or Hauser, whereas St. John's had Ponds going to the line at the other end. If a few of those fouls had been committed on the 3 Hs, I think it would've been a different ball game.
Quote from: MUMountin on February 14, 2019, 11:06:18 AM
Yeah, I was surprised early in the year that Matt wasn't being put in for the last minute of a close game. But, it has almost always worked out so far, as most of the time one of the three Hs have ended up at the line or Morrow has made a few clutch FTs down the stretch. I do get nervous though about a hack-a-Theo strategy, but they have done a good job of keeping the ball away from him in those situations.
Sure, it would be nice to have a high FT% big man on the floor at the end of close games, but don't forget about Ed's great defense against Booth on the last play of the Nova game, or Theo's epic block of Happ's shot late in the UW-M game. Would Matt have made those plays?
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 14, 2019, 01:29:21 PM
Sure, it would be nice to have a high FT% big man on the floor at the end of close games, but don't forget about Ed's great defense against Booth on the last play of the Nova game, or Theo's epic block of Happ's shot late in the UW-M game. Would Matt have made those plays?
That was Ed as well. Dude has made some huge clutch defensive plays.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 14, 2019, 01:29:21 PM
Sure, it would be nice to have a high FT% big man on the floor at the end of close games, but don't forget about Ed's great defense against Booth on the last play of the Nova game, or Theo's epic block of Happ's shot late in the UW-M game. Would Matt have made those plays?
Probably not. However, when Nova calls a timeout with 12 seconds left...Ed would have gone back in the game anyway. So in your example...you could have had Matt for O, Ed for D.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 14, 2019, 01:46:29 PM
That was Ed as well. Dude has made some huge clutch defensive plays.
Yeah, you're right. My memory was a little foggy on that but I knew someone would set the record straight.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 14, 2019, 02:09:29 PM
Probably not. However, when Nova calls a timeout with 12 seconds left...Ed would have gone back in the game anyway. So in your example...you could have had Matt for O, Ed for D.
Yeah, that works if Nova calls timeout. But if both Theo and Ed are on the bench because we have our good free throw shooting big on the floor, what if Nova decides to play on to exploit our lineup?
Quote from: Marqevans on February 13, 2019, 09:02:29 AM
Why not start with Heldt and save them both?
Because Wojo's trying to win games?????
Quote from: Marqevans on February 13, 2019, 09:18:04 AM
Hard to believe Theo is only a sophomore. Hopefully next year he will get less of those ticky tacky fouls as his reputation grows as a great shot blocker and a player the fans want to see on the floor.
So...you think that the refs will be less likely to call fouls on Theo, if they think that he's "a player the fans want to see on the floor"? Hummm
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2019, 05:13:54 AM
No. Because of Matt Heldt. Last night, Theo and Ed got in foul trouble. I was excited see Matt come in. No worries.
Yes, but how do you feel when you see Chartouny bounce a pass to Matt in the post?
I feel disappointed when Joe bounce passes to any of the 3 in the post. Joe didn't get the memo.......there is a reason they are open and always single covered.....they are bad with their back to the basket. I'd take Matt over the others in that regard.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 14, 2019, 04:36:00 PM
Yeah, you're right. My memory was a little foggy on that but I knew someone would set the record straight.
Theo had a key block against Georgetown though.
Quote from: BrewCity83link=topic=57880.msg1092567#msg1092567 date=1550183878
Yeah, that works if Nova calls timeout. But if both Theo and Ed are on the bench because we have our good free throw shooting big on the floor, what if Nova decides to play on to exploit our lineup?
But, they didn't. The example you referenced wasn't a hypothetical. It actually happened. They called a TO and Ed was in the game.
I get your point. I think you do you best to keep the ball in the hands of HHH. If you can do that, keep Theo and Ed in for D.
Quote from: 4everCrean on February 14, 2019, 04:47:09 PM
Yes, but how do you feel when you see Chartouny bounce a pass to Matt in the post?
That it is late in the game and the win is in the bag. Or....... man, foul trouble sucks.
Quote from: 4everCrean on February 14, 2019, 04:47:09 PM
Yes, but how do you feel when you see Chartouny bounce a pass to Matt in the post?
I feel better than when he bounces a pass to Ed or Theo, because at least with Matt, it has a chance to come back out to the perimeter. Not so much with the other guys.
muguru I've been thinking about this on and off since you posted this. Joey is really getting attacked defensively and his offense has stalled. Watching tonight, they performed defensively much better without him on the floor but haven't lost much offensively. Joey might be better with less minutes at this point.