MUScoop

We obviously didn't get a great look after the TO once StJ set their D.  I've always been a fan of no TO and driving to the basket.  You will either get fouled, or an easier look because teams don't want to foul you.  If you call a TO, you may not even run the right play, and, let's be honest, Mullin knew that Markus likely wasn't passing up that shot.  Interested to hear others thought's.

If I have a veteran team like we do, with guys who have made big shots in their careers, I probably don't call a TO there.

But I don't think calling one was a major faux pas or anything. Coaches do it all the time. Mullin called a TO on the possession to set up Ponds.

I'm with 82 on this. With experienced guys on the floor, it can be good to just let them do their thing without giving the defense a chance to figure out what they want to do. I didn't mind Wojo calling the TO tonight, but it sure seemed like we struggled out of timeouts tonight.

I might just be focusing on a few especially frustrating plays, but Wojo didn't seem to know how to respond to Mullin's strategies tonight. I wouldn't go so far as to say he got outcoached, but we didn't seem to have answers when we needed them in several key situations. That last play is just a really glaring example of this.

Sounds like Wojo didn't want a timeout there but there was confusion

Many years ago, there was a pretty famous play in a Dolphins-Jets game. The Jets are up but the Dolphins are driving late. Marino runs to the line and as his teammates line up, Marino makes the motion like he is gonna clock the ball to stop the clock. He gets the snap but rather than clock the ball, he fires the winning pass to a receiver who was open because the defense relaxed.

Why do I bring this up?

As Markus angles toward the sideline to call the TO, St. John's defense totally relaxes. A couple guys start to walk toward midcourt. Joey is left wide open on the far side of the court.

Wouldn't it have been cool if Markus had slowed down and gone over to Wojo as if he was gonna call the TO ... but then quickly spun and thrown a cross-court pass to Joey for either a wide-open jumper or even a dunk? I know nobody will ever try that, but I couldn't help thinking of the Marino play when I watched the replay of ours. I laughed at myself for the absurdity of it!

Quote from: MUeagle1090 on February 05, 2019, 10:58:59 PM
Sounds like Wojo didn't want a timeout there but there was confusion

That's what I saw too. Wojo wanted them to go right away. The team seemed confused so they had to call a TO.

I'm kind of a Wojo fan but was there anything he did tonight to prevent this?

Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 05, 2019, 11:20:19 PM
I'm kind of a Wojo fan but was there anything he did tonight to prevent this?

Ran out of eligibility and couldn't make open shots for them.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.   

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 05:54:53 AM
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Only when you lose.

Correct.  Make the shot, right call.  Regardless of what it was.  Miss the shot, wrong call, regardless of what it was.

The only way you do not call a timeout is if you practice it. 

You also call timeout if you want to change your presonel on the court or want to attack a weakness you have seen in the game.

We didn't lose this game because we did or didn't call a timeout.

If Rowsey had taught Markus 'the thing', MU wins last night.    Markus had the defender in the air flying at him.   Jump into him, get the call, shoot the FT's.    Not who Markus is yet.    Ah, well.    On things as trivial and technical as this, outcomes are decided. 

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 09:29:18 AM
If Rowsey had taught Markus 'the thing', MU wins last night.    Markus had the defender in the air flying at him.   Jump into him, get the call, shoot the FT's.    Not who Markus is yet.    Ah, well.    On things as trivial and technical as this, outcomes are decided.

Honestly, Markus didn't even need to jump into him. Heron was going to full on tackle him if he doesn't duck out of the way. He could have stood there and gotten fouled, would have only been two FTs but I digress. I think most shooters instinct tells them to let the defender fly by. Only players who are looking for the foul look for the contact in that situation. Shoulda coulda woulda

Quote from: MU82 on February 05, 2019, 11:05:02 PM
Many years ago, there was a pretty famous play in a Dolphins-Jets game. The Jets are up but the Dolphins are driving late. Marino runs to the line and as his teammates line up, Marino makes the motion like he is gonna clock the ball to stop the clock. He gets the snap but rather than clock the ball, he fires the winning pass to a receiver who was open because the defense relaxed.

Why do I bring this up?

As Markus angles toward the sideline to call the TO, St. John's defense totally relaxes. A couple guys start to walk toward midcourt. Joey is left wide open on the far side of the court.

Wouldn't it have been cool if Markus had slowed down and gone over to Wojo as if he was gonna call the TO ... but then quickly spun and thrown a cross-court pass to Joey for either a wide-open jumper or even a dunk? I know nobody will ever try that, but I couldn't help thinking of the Marino play when I watched the replay of ours. I laughed at myself for the absurdity of it!

I would totally do this.   Brilliant.

I'm waiting for a football team to run a fake kneel down play.

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 09:29:18 AM
If Rowsey had taught Markus 'the thing', MU wins last night.    Markus had the defender in the air flying at him.   Jump into him, get the call, shoot the FT's.    Not who Markus is yet.    Ah, well.    On things as trivial and technical as this, outcomes are decided.

Exactly

Markus should have been shooting 3 free throws

I am sure he will learn from this....

You take a timeout

They didn't call a timeout at the end of the first half and it was not very good.

Wojo has been real good out of timeouts. Not so much this time for whatever reason. It happens.

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 06, 2019, 01:30:56 PM
They didn't call a timeout at the end of the first half and it was not very good.

Wojo has been real good out of timeouts. Not so much this time for whatever reason. It happens.

I don't think it's fair to compare the half's.  Wojo had already used his "use it or lose it" TO that half, and burning another for one possession when you still have 20 minutes to play would have been a waste IMO.  It turned out to be about the worst possible scenario, going from the possibility of only being down 5 or 6 to 10, but burning another there would have only left 2 for the second half.  End of 1st half versus end of 2nd half meta is very different.

I'm not saying he should have called at TO at the end of the first half, but Markus drove to the basket without calling TO at the end of the first half (like you suggested in your first post) and it didn't work.  Marquette is hampered by not having a great deal of players who can drive.  I think they do better out of sets.

I was ok with the timeout. Wojo is usually good out of them and it seemed the team was disorganized and wanted the TO there (not wojos original plan necessarily).

However, I think I want Sam taking the last shots. He seems to want that moment more than others. Even his 90 footer was pretty dang close.

Quote from: AirPunch on February 06, 2019, 01:47:55 PM
I was ok with the timeout. Wojo is usually good out of them and it seemed the team was disorganized and wanted the TO there (not wojos original plan necessarily).

However, I think I want Sam taking the last shots. He seems to want that moment more than others. Even his 90 footer was pretty dang close.

That's what I was saying before that last play in the game thread; Sam absolutely has to take that shot.

Sam was wide open on the left wing, too.

Edit: Watched replay. Sam drifted out farther than I realized, so nevermind.

No he wasn't.  There was a screen shot in another thread showing him 30 feet from the basket with his defender at the 3 point line as Markus prepared to shoot with 6.2 seconds left.

Nobody mentions Joey fumbling another rebound with 3 seconds left leading to the final foul.

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 03:27:33 PM
No he wasn't.  There was a screen shot in another thread showing him 30 feet from the basket with his defender at the foul line as Markus prepared to shoot with 6.2 seconds left.

Nobody mentions Joey fumbling another rebound with 3 seconds left leading to the final foul.

That's what leads me to believe that Wojo did a poor job drawing up the final play. If Sam was part of the plan for the final shot it wouldn't make sense he would be standing where he was

As far as Joey; that was definitely salt in the wound. Although as others have said he was definitely hit in the head as he went to secure it

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 03:27:33 PM
No he wasn't.  There was a screen shot in another thread showing him 30 feet from the basket with his defender at the foul line as Markus prepared to shoot with 6.2 seconds left.

Nobody mentions Joey fumbling another rebound with 3 seconds left leading to the final foul.

Yeah. The number of people presenting information as fact when evidence shows the exact opposite is quite concerning.

I typed it wrong.  Sam's defender was at the 3 point line and closing toward Sam as Markus dribbled left toward the top of the key.  There was nobody with a better look.  I will amend my last post.

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 03:27:33 PM
No he wasn't.  There was a screen shot in another thread showing him 30 feet from the basket with his defender at the foul line as Markus prepared to shoot with 6.2 seconds left.

Nobody mentions Joey fumbling another rebound with 3 seconds left leading to the final foul.

I guess I anticipate Sam stepping into a shot.  Maybe he was farther out than I thought.   I thought it was closer to 25 feet, which he could step into about 22 feet to meet the pass. But if Tower is right, 30 feet is a lot different.

Sorry for the error.

Without getting into the specifics of the play we ran after the TO...I voted "no" for two reasons: First, as MU82 and others have said, this is a veteran team that we should be able to trust to come up with a decent shot. Second, we had been scoring pretty well down the stretch and the guys were finally beginning to look confident on the offensive end.

I would only call a TO if it was an inexperienced team or if the tables were turned on the comeback (ie, if we had been way ahead and SJU had come back). The TO would be to call a play of course, but mostly to settle the guys and try to instill some confidence.

I just rewatched it.  Sam was next the Al logo.  SJU looked like they were in a 2-3, but that was more due to Marquette's alignment.  When Markus started his dribble to the wing, Sam's defender dropped to the foul line.  When Markus went back to the top of the key, Sam's defender came back out and had his heels on the 3 point line waiting to close on Sam near the logo if Markus had passed to Sam.
  When Markus got to the top, Joey broke from the corner. By the time the fly by happened and Markus shot, Joey was under the basket, got both hands on the ball with 3 seconds left and lost it when he got bumped.

I voted no.  I think your best chance to score is to rush after the made FT and not let the opponent set up a specific defense or get whatever defensive personnel they wanted to have on the floor.  Personal preference.  I wasn't bothered by the TO particularly.

Sacar had an open look and had just hit the same shot

Quote from: PE8983 on February 06, 2019, 04:09:51 PM
Sacar had an open look and had just hit the same shot

Eh, it wasn't the same shot. He was posted up between the corner and the elbow. It was close to the corner but not quite there. Its not the shot I would have wanted in that situation though probably better than the shot we got.

Honestly, St. John's played really good defense other than Heron biffing on Markus' fake. The bad decision by Markus wasn't the decision not to pass, the bad decision was not to take the contact and get to the foul line. Split second decision and most shooters' instinct is to let the defender fly by and take the shot. Its an understandable mistake but a mistake nonetheless.

Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 03:53:24 PM
I just rewatched it.  Sam was next the Al logo.  SJU looked like they were in a 2-3, but that was more due to Marquette's alignment.  When Markus started his dribble to the wing, Sam's defender dropped to the foul line.  Went Markus went back to the top of the key, Sam's defender came back out and had his heels heels on the 3 point line waiting to close on Sam near the logo if Markus had passed to Sam.
  When Markus got to the top, Joey broke from the corner. By the time the fly by happened and Markus shot, Joey was under the basket, got both hands on the ball with 3 seconds left and lost it when he got bumped.

Yep.  I rewatched, too.  Sam drifted higher than I thought.  Tower is right, I was wrong.   

Nova calls a TO when we're scrambling back.  Our D gets set and has a great last stand.  We didn't call one, and Markus gets his pocket picked (less about the D setting up, and more just a great reactionary play IMO).

If what you do works, you're a genius, if it doesn't, you're an idiot.  Ah the life of a basketball coach.

Thought the title of this thread was applicable to today's game as well.

Didn't like the 4-low Markus iso. Al would have said: "They let their sweat dry."

Why not just run the offense and see what develops?