I honestly feel greg is the difference between a sweet sixteen and a final four. We lack an athletic guard badly. Sacar and joe will have to step up big time if we want to make a run. Honeslty am I only the one who thinks Greg should consider burning the red shirt in order to play. Make a deep run ?
Is he practicing, and 100% healthy? If so, when did that happen?
Sweet 16 this year, Final Four next year!
No reason for him to burn his red shirt - watch how much better he is after a year of development.
Is it just me, or is his face looking a bit fuller? Probably bulking up for our Final 4 run next year.
I think Wojo is going to become quicker to go to Bailey if Sacar is struggling offensively unless he's in complete lockdown mode. Bailey's length makes up for what Sacar has in quickness and strength on the defensive end and Bailey doesn't force a whole lot offensively and never turns the ball over. Sam and Joey have taken turns on the best stretch big on opposing teams (Sam shut down Strus and Marshall the last 2 games, Joey shut down Wade and Govan earlier in the season) so you can put Bailey on whatever guard is giving you the most trouble and put Markus on the other guard.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 26, 2019, 11:58:07 PM
I honestly feel greg is the difference between a sweet sixteen and a final four. We lack an athletic guard badly. Sacar and joe will have to step up big time if we want to make a run. Honeslty am I only the one who thinks Greg should consider burning the red shirt in order to play. Make a deep run ?
I think you are.
Could Sacar next year turn into what Matt has been this year with Greg coming back and the addition of Koby?
A really good third option that can easily spell some minutes if there's foul trouble or when matchups dictate.
Quote from: wade_county37 on January 27, 2019, 12:31:01 AM
Is it just me, or is his face looking a bit fuller? Probably bulking up for our Final 4 run next year.
he is clearly bulking up his neck
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 27, 2019, 12:45:44 AM
Could Sacar next year turn into what Matt has been this year with Greg coming back and the addition of Koby?
I doubt it. Everyone was predicting the end of Sacar getting minutes this year with Cain, Elliott, Bailey, and Chartouny in the fold. He just keeps on keeping on. While there may be better offensive options, his defense really makes him indispensable, especially when we can put so many offensive options around him. I think he'll still be at least a 20 mpg guy.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2019, 08:56:01 AM
I doubt it. Everyone was predicting the end of Sacar getting minutes this year with Cain, Elliott, Bailey, and Chartouny in the fold. He just keeps on keeping on. While there may be better offensive options, his defense really makes him indispensable, especially when we can put so many offensive options around him. I think he'll still be at least a 20 mpg guy.
Agreed.
And the "worst 2 guard" nonsense is, well, nonsense. For one thing, it's not true. And for another, he really isn't a 2-guard; he's a wing in this position-less basketball world most teams now live in. He can defend anybody from 6-1 to 6-7 and do a good job, and he can contribute to a victory without putting up offensive numbers -- although sometimes he does put up decent numbers.
I do like what Bailey gave us yesterday and he has shown positive signs in several other games. It's great for Wojo to have that option. I felt real good about him going to the FT line yesterday but unfortunately he missed a 1-and-1. Sacar made his clinching FTs, which hopefully gives him more confidence in similar situations for the rest of the season.
I like the Sacar-BB combo.
Sacar is great at D, and great at getting to the rim. Finishing at rim he can do better. He needs to take that extra half second to spot the rim before release. Some minor adjustments and he will be putting up numbers every game. Love his attitude.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 26, 2019, 11:58:07 PM
I honestly feel greg is the difference between a sweet sixteen and a final four. We lack an athletic guard badly. Sacar and joe will have to step up big time if we want to make a run. Honeslty am I only the one who thinks Greg should consider burning the red shirt in order to play. Make a deep run ?
I think most here would disagree with you Johnny, but I'm not so sure. After hearing the comments from Wojo regarding Joey yesterday, I think Wojo believes the time maybe now for a run......not next year. Coaches don't think well.......sweet 16 this year and final four run next year. I think Wojo May pull out all stops this year. If he sees us as a 3 or 4 seed, I'm sure he's thinking let's empty the tank. Give me every horse out of the stable I can have.
Quote from: Daniel on January 27, 2019, 09:52:31 AM
Sacar is great at D, and great at getting to the rim. Finishing at rim he can do better. He needs to take that extra half second to spot the rim before release. Some minor adjustments and he will be putting up numbers every game. Love his attitude.
Dis. ^^^^^^^^^
the answer
Sacar doesnt lack athleticism he lacks skill. He is a 4th yr player so he has great experience over BB. However, if BB plays as he did against X he will continue to get a ton of minutes. Zero doubt in my mind Greg would get the bulk of Sacars minutes if healthy.
Lastly im not saying it to be mean but apart from Mcclung at GT and the kid at Butler what other starting 2 in the BE would u not take over Sacar?
Booth? Heron? Scruggs? Ballock or alexander, etc
I never understood why so many think Greg is the answer for this team to go further in the tournament?
Yes, I understand Markus is our only "pg" we seem to have, but Greg didn't particularly show me last year that he is our current missing piece.
In no way putting down Greg, I just don't see what so many others seem to.
I agree, look what happened to Jamal, never know what would have happened with Greg. Not a point guard, yes, would take some minutes from somebody because his length on D, but I am really happy he took a red shirt year to get healthy, add some muscle and maturity. Big asset in the future. Also, very good teammate on the bench, McEwen and Greg look like great teammates
Quote from: MUpilot on January 27, 2019, 01:06:31 PM
I never understood why so many think Greg is the answer for this team to go further in the tournament?
Yes, I understand Markus is our only "pg" we seem to have, but Greg didn't particularly show me last year that he is our current missing piece.
In no way putting down Greg, I just don't see what so many others seem to.
He was playing 1 handed for a good chunk last year.
Quote from: MUpilot on January 27, 2019, 01:06:31 PM
I never understood why so many think Greg is the answer for this team to go further in the tournament?
Yes, I understand Markus is our only "pg" we seem to have, but Greg didn't particularly show me last year that he is our current missing piece.
In no way putting down Greg, I just don't see what so many others seem to.
+1000
Quote from: MUpilot on January 27, 2019, 01:06:31 PM
I never understood why so many think Greg is the answer for this team to go further in the tournament?
Yes, I understand Markus is our only "pg" we seem to have, but Greg didn't particularly show me last year that he is our current missing piece.
In no way putting down Greg, I just don't see what so many others seem to.
No, he is not a PG, but he would give MU excellent defensive depth with his athleticism as he showed last year (and, he certainly would be more of an offensive threat than JC). But, not to be this year.
Quote from: Nukem2 on January 27, 2019, 01:25:02 PM
No, he is not a PG, but he would give MU excellent defensive depth with his athleticism as he showed last year (and, he certainly would be more of an offensive threat than JC). But, not to be this year.
I don't disagree that Greg is a decent defender. I just am not sure this team needs that much defensive depth. If I were to pick one thing this team needs is a slasher/driver that can finish at the rim consistently (ala Wes/jerel type guard). Then we'd be a legit top 10 team IMO.
I understand he played hurt last year...not sure what he gives us that we dont already have. If Wojo thought he was the type of talent at this point in his career to be the difference between a S16 and FF...he wouldn't have been allowed to redshirt no matter the teams play.
This board has written of Matty and Joe C and in some of those instances, rather rudely. Both have come back to help us in smaller ways win basketball games.
Now we are writing off Sacar because BB gave us some good minutes.
Good grief.
Sacar lacks confidence.....
If he sees it go through a few times......
He goes off......Very timid at times on the offensive end.....
How many games has Greg's absence caused Marquette to lose so far?
Like everyone else, I think a healthy Greg Elliott would be a boon to this team. Another perimeter defender. Another guard for when Chartouny doesn't have it. Another back up plan if Markus's back continues to be balky. He and his family chose to keep an entire year of eligibility intact rather than only play half a year. It appears he could play now. Great. Let's hope that everyone else stays healthy so there is no temptation to pull that red-shirt.
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on January 27, 2019, 04:10:43 PM
This board has written of Matty and Joe C and in some of those instances, rather rudely. Both have come back to help us in smaller ways win basketball games.
Now we are writing off Sacar because BB gave us some good minutes.
Good grief.
Only one person on this board said Sacar is "worst 2 in BE by far." Right after that basketball genius said it, Sacar had a great game against Seton Hall -- absolutely one of the main reasons we won the game -- and followed it up with solid games against GT and Providence.
Frankly, Sacar hasn't played as well the last couple of games, and Wojo has done what a good coach should: give more minutes to Sacar's backup, BB. Which of course has led Sacar's critic to wax poetic about how great BB has been.
The funny thing is although I agree BB has played well, he scored 4 points total in the 2 games, shot 1-for-5 from the floor, and missed the front end of a key 1-and-1 against X. Had Sacar done the exact same, he would have been demoted from the "worst 2 in the BE by far" to worst since Naismith tacked up the first peach basket.
The romance this board has with freshman and now a player that is injured is comical. Greg Elliot is the difference between two wins on the second weekend? Ok.
News flash, Elliot isn't a PG and isn't a great defender. He was a nice role player on an NIT team. His handle was below average last year and he weighs 175 pounds at 6'3. Sacar is 210 pounds and Koby is 200 pounds. They don't need scoring as much as they need defense at that position.
Greg Elliott is a fantastic defender.
Quote from: 94Warrior on January 27, 2019, 12:06:11 AM
Is he practicing, and 100% healthy? If so, when did that happen?
I didn't see an answer to this question. Does anybody know if he is practicing full speed yet?
I'm with TAMU - Greg plays well on D.
I think at this stage to pull the redshirt would be unwise. Why? 1. The team has done pretty well.
2. We don't know his status/readiness. 3. Burn a year for a dozen games?
Quote from: MUpilot on January 27, 2019, 01:06:31 PM
I never understood why so many think Greg is the answer for this team to go further in the tournament?
Yes, I understand Markus is our only "pg" we seem to have, but Greg didn't particularly show me last year that he is our current missing piece.
In no way putting down Greg, I just don't see what so many others seem to.
Go back n lok at Gregs numbers in the Big East. Pretty damn solid for a freshman wearing a cast on his hand
Quote from: burger on January 27, 2019, 04:47:50 PM
Sacar lacks confidence.....
If he sees it go through a few times......
He goes off......Very timid at times on the offensive end.....
He may gain confidence but his mechanics are quite poor, he also has basically no left hand, hence the twisting high degree difficulty twisting reverse layups,
Quote from: MU82 on January 27, 2019, 06:36:57 PM
Only one person on this board said Sacar is "worst 2 in BE by far." Right after that basketball genius said it, Sacar had a great game against Seton Hall -- absolutely one of the main reasons we won the game -- and followed it up with solid games against GT and Providence.
Frankly, Sacar hasn't played as well the last couple of games, and Wojo has done what a good coach should: give more minutes to Sacar's backup, BB. Which of course has led Sacar's critic to wax poetic about how great BB has been.
The funny thing is although I agree BB has played well, he scored 4 points total in the 2 games, shot 1-for-5 from the floor, and missed the front end of a key 1-and-1 against X. Had Sacar done the exact same, he would have been demoted from the "worst 2 in the BE by far" to worst since Naismith tacked up the first peach basket.
This entire post is pathetic, the hyperbole and distortion of fact shows why the journalistic field is falling apart while MU82 continues with a blind eye.
I have said all along we are very very weak at the 2g. Peopje, most vociferously and antagonistically MU82, have said we were not. I think any objective person, key word objective can look at Bendan Baileys box scores for the Georfetown And Xavier Games and see he out played Sacar. Mu82 can mention a mussed ft, well they bith went 2-3 and i commended sacar for his two big makes. Its not the point and a dustraction by 82. Many people point to sacars defense, baikey a freshman who sat out two years out defended sacar, outrebounded him, out blocked him. Bottom line is whether our 4th year player who is just not very good or a first year player is out there we r pretty weak at that spot. Again id take booth, heron, alexander, diallo, gage, powell, scruggs, etc over either of them right now. Sacar in retrospect may be better than mclung n the 2g at butler, although mclung lit sacar up in their only meeting. For the record i think bailey is gonna be really really good.
We r weak at the 2g rn, mu82s mother henning and distortions for sacar dont change that.
Greg would have helped tremendously, superior defender and offensive pkayer then sacar.
Continuing to refer to Sacar as a "2g" shows an exceptional ignorance of the roles that players play in today's game. Comparing him to other players who play different roles on there teams make no sense.
That being said, Bailey and Ellliott May end up filling that role better next year.
Quote from: TinyTimsLittleBrother on January 27, 2019, 10:20:50 PM
Continuing to refer to Sacar as a "2g" shows an exceptional ignorance of the roles that players play in today's game. Comparing him to other players who play different roles on there teams make no sense.
That being said, Bailey and Ellliott May end up filling that role better next year.
Call it what u want, 2g, wing, tomato, tomato. Been coaching hoops for almost 30 years including many current n formers D1 players n a current nbaer. We refer to our players as 1-5, not insinuating positions cannot be interchangeable or in certain cases identical. Havent coached the past few years maybe ive lost it. Call me ignorant if u would like but i think i have a decent handle on whats going on as im guessing the other coaches ive worked with do as well. Spoke to a coach, of a former player today on the phone, that called me, we spoke for almost an hour. He used the term 2 in our convo also, he must be ignorant as well?
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 27, 2019, 09:46:12 PM
I have said all along we are very very weak at the 2g. Peopje, most vociferously and antagonistically MU82, have said we were not. I think any objective person, key word objective can look at Bendan Baileys box scores for the Georfetown And Xavier Games and see he out played Sacar. Mu82 can mention a mussed ft, well they bith went 2-3 and i commended sacar for his two big makes. Its not the point and a dustraction by 82. Many people point to sacars defense, baikey a freshman who sat out two years out defended sacar, outrebounded him, out blocked him. Bottom line is whether our 4th year player who is just not very good or a first year player is out there we r pretty weak at that spot. Again id take booth, heron, alexander, diallo, gage, powell, scruggs, etc over either of them right now. Sacar in retrospect may be better than mclung n the 2g at butler, although mclung lit sacar up in their only meeting. For the record i think bailey is gonna be really really good.
We r weak at the 2g rn, mu82s mother henning and distortions for sacar dont change that.
Greg would have helped tremendously, superior defender and offensive pkayer then sacar.
No one argued that we aren't weak at the 2 position, especially compared to our other 4 starters. The only argument was with the claim that Sacar was "the worst starting 2g in the Big East by far."
You would really take Devin Gage over Sacar? That's a hard sell IMHO.
Herron plays the 4 for St. John's, so there's that.
Also McClung was going off when Sacar was on Akinjo (who had a terrible game the entire game). Once Bailey came in and was put on Akinjo, Sacar moved over to McClung and McClung became invisible.
If you're going to call out Sacar, at least get your facts straight. When you just throw out bold face lies it defeats your point.
And Sacar will not be down to 7 mpg next year like Matt is this year, nor should he be.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 27, 2019, 09:46:12 PM
This entire post is pathetic, the hyperbole and distortion of fact shows why the journalistic field is falling apart while MU82 continues with a blind eye.
I have said all along we are very very weak at the 2g. Peopje, most vociferously and antagonistically MU82, have said we were not. I think any objective person, key word objective can look at Bendan Baileys box scores for the Georfetown And Xavier Games and see he out played Sacar. Mu82 can mention a mussed ft, well they bith went 2-3 and i commended sacar for his two big makes. Its not the point and a dustraction by 82. Many people point to sacars defense, baikey a freshman who sat out two years out defended sacar, outrebounded him, out blocked him. Bottom line is whether our 4th year player who is just not very good or a first year player is out there we r pretty weak at that spot. Again id take booth, heron, alexander, diallo, gage, powell, scruggs, etc over either of them right now. Sacar in retrospect may be better than mclung n the 2g at butler, although mclung lit sacar up in their only meeting. For the record i think bailey is gonna be really really good.
We r weak at the 2g rn, mu82s mother henning and distortions for sacar dont change that.
Greg would have helped tremendously, superior defender and offensive pkayer then sacar.
The guy who called Sacar
the worst BY FAR -- which is a lie -- and continues to rag on him every chance he gets ... now attempts to call somebody else out for hyperbole. That's funny.
At least I think that's what you did. Your unintelligible post is filled with gibberish and nonsense.
And now you claim to be some great coach of college and NBA stars. Riiiiiiiight. How did MU miss out on offering you the job over Shaka and Wojo?
But sure, keep showing how great a fan you are by constantly ripping an athlete who has helped a team you allegedly love go 18-3.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 27, 2019, 11:36:09 PM
Herron plays the 4 for St. John's, so there's that.
Also McClung was going off when Sacar was on Akinjo (who had a terrible game the entire game). Once Bailey came in and was put on Akinjo, Sacar moved over to McClung and McClung became invisible.
If you're going to call out Sacar, at least get your facts straight. When you just throw out bold face lies it defeats your point.
And Sacar will not be down to 7 mpg next year like Matt is this year, nor should he be.
Without watching SJU more its hard to define the roles, figueroa n clark at 6'6 n 6'7 would have to be referred to as the 4 n 5 or post defenders. So call Heron or Simon the interchangeable 2/3 in the 5 out. Both infinitely superior players to Sacar n Bailey rn.
Howard went out 3 minutes in, and my recollection may be off. I just recall Bailey absolutely smothering Akinjo in the second half. It may not have been on sacar that mclung went off but i also dont recall Akinjo being smothered in tge first half like he was in the second. Additionally, Baileys defense was so good against X that Sacar couldnt get back on the court until a foul out.
Lastly, not sure if it was directed at me but i never made a guestimate at Sacars minutes for next yr. Ive simply said Greg is better at both ends and without him we have been tremendously weak at the 2 relative to the BE
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 27, 2019, 11:22:23 PM
No one argued that we aren't weak at the 2 position, especially compared to our other 4 starters. The only argument was with the claim that Sacar was "the worst starting 2g in the Big East by far."
You would really take Devin Gage over Sacar? That's a hard sell IMHO.
Gage only one on that list that even close. Gage is a good defender avg 1.4 steals a game and rebounds well also extremely quick n strong for the position. An equal to or better defender than sacar, who imo doesnt really defend well he is just our only real iption to defend other teams athletic wings given the Hauser boys footspeed n Howards size n lack of great D. Sacar also really doesnt rebound much. Offensively both bad 3pt shooters but gage better total fg%, much better ft%. And averages 9/game pts. In the head to head gage 11 pts 7 rebounds, sacar 0 pts on 9 shots, 3 rebounds.
So yes on Gage more dynamic. Id take greg over both n bailey next yr over both sacar n gage
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 04:22:19 AM
Gage only one on that list that even close. Gage is a good defender avg 1.4 steals a game and rebounds well also extremely quick n strong for the position. An equal to or better defender than sacar, who imo doesnt really defend well he is just our only real iption to defend other teams athletic wings given the Hauser boys footspeed n Howards size n lack of great D. Sacar also really doesnt rebound much. Offensively both bad 3pt shooters but gage better total fg%, much better ft%. And averages 9/game pts. In the head to head gage 11 pts 7 rebounds, sacar 0 pts on 9 shots, 3 rebounds.
So yes on Gage more dynamic. Id take greg over both n bailey next yr over both sacar n gage
1. Gage is a PG, not a 2G
2. Sacar is a much better defender than Gage
3. Steals per game is a bad way to judge defense
4. Sacar has a better eFG%
5. 1 head to head matchup is a terrible way to judge two players, especially when they didn't defend each other
6. When comparing stats, you have to take into account the team the two players are on. Gage is putting up his stats on a much worse team
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2019, 07:34:57 AM
1. Gage is a PG, not a 2G
2. Sacar is a much better defender than Gage
3. Steals per game is a bad way to judge defense
4. Sacar has a better eFG%
5. 1 head to head matchup is a terrible way to judge two players, especially when they didn't defend each other
6. When comparing stats, you have to take into account the team the two players are on. Gage is putting up his stats on a much worse team
Didn't listen when presented with real arguments about Luke and wont listen now with sacar
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2019, 07:34:57 AM
1. Gage is a PG, not a 2G
2. Sacar is a much better defender than Gage
3. Steals per game is a bad way to judge defense
4. Sacar has a better eFG%
5. 1 head to head matchup is a terrible way to judge two players, especially when they didn't defend each other
6. When comparing stats, you have to take into account the team the two players are on. Gage is putting up his stats on a much worse team
Appreciate the opinion. If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2
Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams. Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not. I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul. After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda. I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst. Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate. His skill level is simply quite poor
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 08:03:05 AM
Appreciate the opinion. If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2
Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams. Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not. I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul. After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda. I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst. Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate. His skill level is simply quite poor
Cain over Sacar?
Many, many lulz
NM
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 08:03:05 AM
Appreciate the opinion. If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2
Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams. Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not. I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul. After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda. I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst. Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate. His skill level is simply quite poor
I bet Sacar doesnt get on message boards, with an anonymous screen name, and both the play of kids. So maybe you aren't qualified to judge...
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 08:03:05 AM
Appreciate the opinion. If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2
Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams. Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not. I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul. After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda. I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst. Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate. His skill level is simply quite poor
If you publicly stated that you were WAAAAAAY over the top in saying Sacar was the worst 2 in the BE by far, I missed it. So I'm glad you have apologized for being so wrong that it rendered you impossible to take seriously on any basketball subject.
For the record, here are my thoughts about Sacar:
Although Sacar is pretty good at beating his defender and getting into the lane -- kind of a JJJ Lite -- he is not a reliable scorer because he's neither a very good finisher nor a good outside shooter. So he is capable of putting up 15 for us, as he has on many occasions, but also is capable of laying a goose egg.
But because he is a superb defender and a "hustle player" -- in other words, the classic "glue guy" -- there is a role for him on a team that starts three gifted scorers. He is the kind of player most coaches love, and it's easy to see why Wojo thinks he fits on this team. Having said that, it's obvious that Wojo has no problem giving Bailey a chance when Sacar is really struggling, and leaving Bailey in when he's playing well. Which is very smart of Wojo.
Do I wish we had the best 2 in the BEast? Sure. But it's unrealistic to expect to have the best player at every position. Am I upset that we have a defensive-minded 2 who is a good team player, who has bought into Wojo's system and who has personally contributed to us being one of the most improved defensive teams in the country? Not in the least.
It's like a baseball team that has great hitters at first base, second base and third base; it can afford to play a great defensive shortstop who only occasionally delivers on offense, and it can win a LOT of games with that infield.
I don't believe that all of the above means I am an "apologist" for Sacar or that I fail to recognize his limitations. If you feel otherwise, I can live with that because you have demonstrated repeatedly that you are a person who just fires out the first words that come into your head rather than actually thinking before you post.
Bottom line: You said Sacar was "not very good" and called him "the worst 2 in the BE by far." Those were your words, nobody else's, and I called you out for them being as dopey as your rants about Luke being the worst. Ever since, you resorted to personal attacks against me -- including one particularly nasty comment that earned you a Scoop-cation -- because you realized you couldn't make an intelligent argument for Sacar being as bad as you claimed. Now you say you have softened your stance on Sacar -- that he's merely bad and not the worst in the BE by far -- and we're supposed to congratulate you? All righty then.
https://twitter.com/steve_wojo/status/1089914171712589824
I don't really get the insistence on using an outdated labeling system. If we use this labeling system, we have a top half (in conference) C in Theo, a top three or four PF in Joey, a top one or two SF in Sam, a top one or two SG in Markus, and a bottom three or four PG in Chartouny. We don't start our one spot where we're below average, which causes Markus to slide over and play out of position, which makes Sacar slide over and play out of position. If you want to say that Sacar is a below average SG that's fine, and I would agree, since that's not his position.
I know the whole point of the board is to talk about MU hoops and that a lot of that will revolve around hypotheticals, but with that said, I really wish we could stop focusing on what we could/should/would be if we had Greg this year. He was a good enough role player last year, but then again, so was Jamal. If anything, Jamal probably looked more comfortable than Greg by the end of last season, and now he's having a hard time finding his role this year. What makes so many think that Greg would be so different?
We're a darn good team this year with the guys who have been on the floor. Everyone has done a great job of stepping up when they needed to, and that has made this team awfully dangerous. We aren't hurting for an extra guy right now. And hopefully we'll continue to see development from Brendan, see Joe continue to build his confidence, and see Sacar find his rhythm on offense.
If anything, what we need the most right now is Jamal, not Greg. If we can get Jamal back to his Big East form from last season, that makes us very capable of a deep run. And that's a heckuva lot more likely than burning Greg's redshirt.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 28, 2019, 10:29:21 AM
I know the whole point of the board is to talk about MU hoops and that a lot of that will revolve around hypotheticals, but with that said, I really wish we could stop focusing on what we could/should/would be if we had Greg this year. He was a good enough role player last year, but then again, so was Jamal. If anything, Jamal probably looked more comfortable than Greg by the end of last season, and now he's having a hard time finding his role this year. What makes so many think that Greg would be so different?
We're a darn good team this year with the guys who have been on the floor. Everyone has done a great job of stepping up when they needed to, and that has made this team awfully dangerous. We aren't hurting for an extra guy right now. And hopefully we'll continue to see development from Brendan, see Joe continue to build his confidence, and see Sacar find his rhythm on offense.
If anything, what we need the most right now is Jamal, not Greg. If we can get Jamal back to his Big East form from last season, that makes us very capable of a deep run. And that's a heckuva lot more likely than burning Greg's redshirt.
Wojo said "Greg would have been a starter this season....he was playing that well when he got hurt."
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 28, 2019, 08:07:10 AM
Cain over Sacar?
Many, many lulz
He means Eli Cain. Which is very legitimate.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 08:03:05 AM
Appreciate the opinion. If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2
Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams. Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not. I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul. After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda. I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst. Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate. His skill level is simply quite poor
Eli Cain over Anim, definitely. But when they are fully healthy, the starting 2G is Jalen Coleman Lands with Cain shifting to the 3. I would take Anim over JCL.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 28, 2019, 10:29:21 AM
I know the whole point of the board is to talk about MU hoops and that a lot of that will revolve around hypotheticals, but with that said, I really wish we could stop focusing on what we could/should/would be if we had Greg this year. He was a good enough role player last year, but then again, so was Jamal. If anything, Jamal probably looked more comfortable than Greg by the end of last season, and now he's having a hard time finding his role this year. What makes so many think that Greg would be so different?
We're a darn good team this year with the guys who have been on the floor. Everyone has done a great job of stepping up when they needed to, and that has made this team awfully dangerous. We aren't hurting for an extra guy right now. And hopefully we'll continue to see development from Brendan, see Joe continue to build his confidence, and see Sacar find his rhythm on offense.
If anything, what we need the most right now is Jamal, not Greg. If we can get Jamal back to his Big East form from last season, that makes us very capable of a deep run. And that's a heckuva lot more likely than burning Greg's redshirt.
Personally, I thought Greg was a lot better than Cain last season. Think he would be the 6th man for this team earning around 20 minutes a game.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 28, 2019, 10:28:45 AM
I don't really get the insistence on using an outdated labeling system. If we use this labeling system, we have a top half (in conference) C in Theo, a top three or four PF in Joey, a top one or two SF in Sam, a top one or two SG in Markus, and a bottom three or four PG in Chartouny. We don't start our one spot where we're below average, which causes Markus to slide over and play out of position, which makes Sacar slide over and play out of position. If you want to say that Sacar is a below average SG that's fine, and I would agree, since that's not his position.
Personally, I'm OK with the 1 -5 labeling system. I just think people have outdated ideas of what each position is supposed to do. In my head, I also assign 1-5 based on what kind of players the individual can defend
Quote from: MuMark on January 28, 2019, 10:33:35 AM
Wojo said "Greg would have been a starter this season....he was playing that well when he got hurt."
Honestly, I don't think I buy that. I think that's a coach saying what he needs to say to motivate his guys. It's possible that Greg could have been ahead of Sacar, but I don't think Greg would be getting the 30 mpg that Sacar is getting now.
Also remember that Wojo also said Harry Froling was going to be a real game changer last year, so maybe we should take some of the comments made to the media with a grain of salt at times.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
Personally, I'm OK with the 1 -5 labeling system. I just think people have outdated ideas of what each position is supposed to do. In my head, I also assign 1-5 based on what kind of players the individual can defend
I don't have a problem with that, but there's this mentality that someone "is" a position, that it's static, when it's really fluid. Just look at last year's starting line-up to this years. Last year, Markus played off the ball which would make him a "2", that would have made Sacar a "3", and Sam a "4". Now, Markus is our primary ball handler, a "1", Sacar is off the ball, a "2", and Sam is the smallest of three front court players, a "3". There's a reason that most rosters only list guard, forward, and center, and not PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 28, 2019, 10:49:19 AM
Honestly, I don't think I buy that. I think that's a coach saying what he needs to say to motivate his guys. It's possible that Greg could have been ahead of Sacar, but I don't think Greg would be getting the 30 mpg that Sacar is getting now.
Also remember that Wojo also said Harry Froling was going to be a real game changer last year, so maybe we should take some of the comments made to the media with a grain of salt at times.
Greg maybe the 4th guard next year, Howard, McEven and Sacar. He might only get 10 minutes a game. He has 10 months to show what he can do. Last year he was
hurt, for sure could not play point at all. Not sure he will be needed next year. But on the D end in crunch time, he will be in with McEven or Sacar or sure. Quick and
long length. More importantly he has 2 years left after next year and I could see him starting at the 2 guard.
Greg can defend.....he can shoot and make 3 point shots with confidence....good free throw shooter who can be in the game at crunch time........good rebounder.......unselfish glue guy who makes others better.
Areas of improvement for him last year as with most freshmen....needed to get stronger....and turned it over too much........some of it related to decision making and some I'm sure to his injury.
Can't wait to have him back next season to be a rotation piece with Kobe, Markus and Sacar.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2019, 10:46:09 AM
Personally, I thought Greg was a lot better than Cain last season. Think he would be the 6th man for this team earning around 20 minutes a game.
Totally agree with this. Greg did all the little things it takes to win and had skill and athleticism. Love the fact that we will have him for three more years but would have been nice to see him on this team as well.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2019, 10:12:07 AM
If you publicly stated that you were WAAAAAAY over the top in saying Sacar was the worst 2 in the BE by far, I missed it. So I'm glad you have apologized for being so wrong that it rendered you impossible to take seriously on any basketball subject.
For the record, here are my thoughts about Sacar:
Although Sacar is pretty good at beating his defender and getting into the lane -- kind of a JJJ Lite -- he is not a reliable scorer because he's neither a very good finisher nor a good outside shooter. So he is capable of putting up 15 for us, as he has on many occasions, but also is capable of laying a goose egg.
But because he is a superb defender and a "hustle player" -- in other words, the classic "glue guy" -- there is a role for him on a team that starts three gifted scorers. He is the kind of player most coaches love, and it's easy to see why Wojo thinks he fits on this team. Having said that, it's obvious that Wojo has no problem giving Bailey a chance when Sacar is really struggling, and leaving Bailey in when he's playing well. Which is very smart of Wojo.
Do I wish we had the best 2 in the BEast? Sure. But it's unrealistic to expect to have the best player at every position. Am I upset that we have a defensive-minded 2 who is a good team player, who has bought into Wojo's system and who has personally contributed to us being one of the most improved defensive teams in the country? Not in the least.
It's like a baseball team that has great hitters at first base, second base and third base; it can afford to play a great defensive shortstop who only occasionally delivers on offense, and it can win a LOT of games with that infield.
I don't believe that all of the above means I am an "apologist" for Sacar or that I fail to recognize his limitations. If you feel otherwise, I can live with that because you have demonstrated repeatedly that you are a person who just fires out the first words that come into your head rather than actually thinking before you post.
Bottom line: You said Sacar was "not very good" and called him "the worst 2 in the BE by far." Those were your words, nobody else's, and I called you out for them being as dopey as your rants about Luke being the worst. Ever since, you resorted to personal attacks against me -- including one particularly nasty comment that earned you a Scoop-cation -- because you realized you couldn't make an intelligent argument for Sacar being as bad as you claimed. Now you say you have softened your stance on Sacar -- that he's merely bad and not the worst in the BE by far -- and we're supposed to congratulate you? All righty then.
Agree with much of what u say however to label sacar a superb defender is ludicrous. He is average, maybe a little above average, but a poor rebounder. He is an average defender and below average on offense. Putting him 7th -8th ranked 2 in the BE. His effort is great and he is the best we have.
I will make no argument that we should be playing someone else his minutes. Its just unfortunate Greg got hurt and that maybe we werent able to land a more talented 2 in wojos first few recruiting classes. Had we a better 2 we would be even more dangerous.
My feelings on sacar, therefore are nothing like those of Luke. My arguments on Luke, unlike sacar was that we werent playing the best player for our team fit, for our team to be successful. That bore fruit when Wojo made the switch and our team took off and secured an NCAA bid with Matt starting at the 5
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 28, 2019, 10:57:39 AM
Greg maybe the 4th guard next year, Howard, McEven and Sacar. He might only get 10 minutes a game. He has 10 months to show what he can do. Last year he was
hurt, for sure could not play point at all. Not sure he will be needed next year. But on the D end in crunch time, he will be in with McEven or Sacar or sure. Quick and
long length. More importantly he has 2 years left after next year and I could see him starting at the 2 guard.
You will need to go back n watch many of tge late season BE games from last yr. Greg finushed the season really well
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 11:14:46 AM
Agree with much of what u say however to label sacar a superb defender is ludicrous. He is average, maybe a little above average, but a poor rebounder. He is an average defender and below average on offense. Putting him 7th -8th ranked 2 in the BE. His effort is great and he is the best we have.
I will make no argument that we should be playing someone else his minutes. Its just unfortunate Greg got hurt and that maybe we werent able to land a more talented 2 in wojos first few recruiting classes. Had we a better 2 we would be even more dangerous.
My feelings on sacar, therefore are nothing like those of Luke. My arguments on Luke, unlike sacar was that we werent playing the best player for our team fit, for our team to be successful. That bore fruit when Wojo made the switch and our team took off and secured an NCAA bid with Matt starting at the 5
Aside from disagreeing with you on Sacar's defense -- I think he is well above average -- I'll let this die now. Glad you have toned down your anti-Sacar rhetoric. Have a nice day.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 28, 2019, 11:19:36 AM
You will need to go back n watch many of tge late season BE games from last yr. Greg finushed the season really well
The point I agree with you on is that Greg would have gotten quite a few of Sacars minutes. When healthy Greg is a guy the coaches were going to want on the floor as much as possible. His length, speed and unselfish play was ideal when you consider who the other players on the floor are.
That said I do not view Sacar as a liability the way you do. Teams like ours that have plus shooters like Markus and The Hausers need a guy like Sacar who is not ball dominant. That is the whole team chemistry piece that maybe is not being given a high enough waiting in your analysis. I think your focusing on the bricks that Sacar throws up a little too much and not enough on what he does defensively. I am pretty confident the coaches will take that 3 point green light away at some point as we get closer to the tournament.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 28, 2019, 10:56:29 AM
I don't have a problem with that, but there's this mentality that someone "is" a position, that it's static, when it's really fluid. Just look at last year's starting line-up to this years. Last year, Markus played off the ball which would make him a "2", that would have made Sacar a "3", and Sam a "4". Now, Markus is our primary ball handler, a "1", Sacar is off the ball, a "2", and Sam is the smallest of three front court players, a "3". There's a reason that most rosters only list guard, forward, and center, and not PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.
Oh for sure. I only ever think about it in the context of "he is the 1/2/3/4/5 in this lineup. There are very few players who can truly only play one position
In many offenses we will have a primary ball handler, two wings and two post players. The wings are indistinguishable as are the bigs. Still label them 1-5. Is it right or wrong, idk its just what we do. Helps kids helps the coaches too" go in for sam at the 5, or your the 4."
Kinda splitting hairs anyway and i think its common with most teams
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2019, 03:01:56 PM
Oh for sure. I only ever think about it in the context of "he is the 1/2/3/4/5 in this lineup. There are very few players who can truly only play one position
In the context of Sam?
Not sure if anyone noticed but there were multiple big shots made last night that after the ball went in and our bench was up and cheering Greg was looking at the Butler student section and chirping...
Love the confidence of it but sure hope he can back it up next year when he is back
Quote from: LoudMouth on January 31, 2019, 12:34:05 PM
Not sure if anyone noticed but there were multiple big shots made last night that after the ball went in and our bench was up and cheering Greg was looking at the Butler student section and chirping...
Love the confidence of it but sure hope he can back it up next year when he is back
Rowsey definitely took Greg under his wing.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 31, 2019, 12:37:00 PM
Rowsey definitely took Greg under his wing.
If you go look at his old highlight vids, he's never been one to shy away from talking.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 31, 2019, 12:42:37 PM
If you go look at his old highlight vids, he's never been one to shy away from talking.
I thought Greg was a lot more confident and active than Cain last year. Jamal plays like he's scared of making the same mistakes over and over again. Elliott definitely plays with some edge and spirit. Think he's going to fit in very well next year.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 31, 2019, 12:53:27 PM
I thought Greg was a lot more confident and active than Cain last year. Jamal plays like he's scared of making the same mistakes over and over again. Elliott definitely plays with some edge and spirit. Think he's going to fit in very well next year.
I think Greg will be a valuable role player next year. But he'll have to fight his way up the pecking order to get his minutes. We're seeing now how minute allocation is much, much different than we thought heading into the year, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a 7-8 man core rotation next year too. We'll have seniority and depth, and we'll have high expectations. This will be re-hashed several dozen times between now and October, but I'm guessing Greg's role is still a bit up in the air for next year.
Greg and Jamal's stats from last year:
Greg: 35 games, 4 starts. 639 min, 18.3 avg. 54-107 FG (50.5%), 11-30 3P (36.7%), 38-48 FTs (79.2%), 157 points, 4.5 avg. 81 rebounds (23 offense, 58 defense), 48 assists, 30 turnovers, 24 blocks, 30 steals.
Jamal: 34 games, 0 starts. 584 min, 17.2 avg. 59-122 FG (48.4%), 26-55 3P (47.3%), 11-23 FT (47.8%), 155 points, 4.6 avg. 114 rebounds (30 offense, 84 defense), 22 assists, 37 turnovers, 12 blocks, 28 steals.