Bad night in pretty much every aspect. If this team wants to do anything this year they need to learn to win on the road. Two badly failed teats so far.
To Brewcity and TAMU who have for 3 months harped on how bad St. Johns is, how is that crow tasting? You whiffed on ur evaluations. StJohns is good
St John's is good but they over performed tonight. Couple that with Marquette underperforming you have a blowout.
I think St John's will finish third or fourth in the Big East.
This is the best SJU has played by far. They shot out of their minds and were handed every possible advantage for 35 minutes. They're no better today than they were yesterday.
This was a game that most if not all picked us too lose. We got very little from our best offensive player. Call me an eternal optimistic, but I'm not all that concerned with the return trip.
Just because we lose to a team doesn't make them good. We lost to UWGB the year we won the BE that didn't mean they were good
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 01, 2019, 08:22:26 PM
Bad night in pretty much every aspect. If this team wants to do anything this year they need to learn to win on the road. Two badly failed teats so far.
To Brewcity and TAMU who have for 3 months harped on how bad St. Johns is, how is that crow tasting? You whiffed on ur evaluations. StJohns is good
Can you quote when I said St. John's isn't that good? I picked them for 3rd in the Big East and said this was one of 3 or 4 toughest games of the conference schedule.
From brewcity
- "St. John's doesn't look remotely as good as their record. They struggled with Cal, Bowling Green, and Georgia Tech. VCU has not been good and SJU needed a comeback & overtime.
What I said is they keep winning & their rating keeps dropping. What that means is that while they are getting wins, they are doing so in a fashion that indicates they're not as good as the results they've posted. All the other undefeated teams have either seen their rankings hold firm or improve significantly as new data comes in. St. John's, on the other hand, has dropped sharply while playing one of the worst schedules in the country (#344 per Pomeroy).
Yes, they could prove to be as good as their record, but that's not what the data to date indicates. And having watched them a few times against some pretty bad teams, I have not been impressed. They have some talent, but are poorly coached and undersized."
Now sure they could swan dive as Brew predicts. But beating a strong MU team by 20 may also indicate that they have a really solid veteran team with some big time players. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
We'll destroy this team at Fiserv
Some days you are the dog, some days you are the hydrant.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 01, 2019, 08:36:30 PM
From brewcity
- St. John's doesn't look remotely as good as their record. They struggled with Cal, Bowling Green, and Georgia Tech. VCU has not been good and SJU needed a comeback & overtime.
What I said is they keep winning & their rating keeps dropping. What that means is that while they are getting wins, they are doing so in a fashion that indicates they're not as good as the results they've posted. All the other undefeated teams have either seen their rankings hold firm or improve significantly as new data comes in. St. John's, on the other hand, has dropped sharply while playing one of the worst schedules in the country (#344 per Pomeroy).
Yes, they could prove to be as good as their record, but that's not what the data to date indicates. And having watched them a few times against some pretty bad teams, I have not been impressed. They have some talent, but are poorly coached and undersized.
I don't see how any of this has been disputed. Did tonight's result change how they played against Bowling Green, Cal, Georgia Tech, & VCU? Did tonight's result change their ranking trend during their 12-game winning streak? Did tonight's result change their SOS during their first 12 games?
You're not very good at this whole "gotcha" thing ;D
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 01, 2019, 08:39:55 PM
You're not very good at this whole "gotcha" thing ;D
At least this time he kept the grammatical and spelling mistakes into the single digits.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on January 01, 2019, 08:43:05 PM
At least this time he kept the grammatical and spelling mistakes into the single digits.
Damn, that's just off the top rope.
"And having watched them a few times against some pretty bad teams, I have not been impressed. They have some talent, but are poorly coached and undersized."
They are 13-1 and just beat the 16th ranked team in the country by 20.
Pretty piss poor assesment, maybe at some point u will become impressed.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on January 01, 2019, 08:43:05 PM
At least this time he kept the grammatical and spelling mistakes into the single digits.
He hasn't said douchebag yet either....well at least the posts you guys are quoting.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 01, 2019, 08:47:25 PM
"And having watched them a few times against some pretty bad teams, I have not been impressed. They have some talent, but are poorly coached and undersized."
They are 13-1 and just beat the 16th ranked team in the country by 20.
Pretty piss poor assesment, maybe at some point u will become impressed.
Maybe I will. I watched them against VCU, Georgia Tech, MSM, & Seton Hall before tonight. They weren't impressive. Tonight was by far, by miles, the best they've played, though getting every possible advantage from the striped contingent made that easier.
I expected them to be better when they added Heron. So far they've played one impressive game. But my preseason predictions remain perfect.
Also, who wouldn't be 13-1 (or better) with that schedule?
The new excuse du jour is now, "they were a bad matchup for us"
Congratulations. Something new for you to whine about. Some teams are bad match ups. Marquette was a bad match up for Wisconsin, Kansas State, Buffalo. St. Johns on the road was a bad match up. They kicked MU's butt. Next.
QuotePretty piss poor assesment, maybe at some point u will become impressed.
\
And maybe at some point the same will be said about you and our team. One game does not make a season.
You point out where others are incorrect, yet the majority around the country were not been impressed by the Johnnies until last night. You act is if you told him so, but ya didn't. Your opinion isn't known until after the fact, and then you act as if I told you! Its a long season, R-E-L-A-X.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 01, 2019, 08:32:20 PM
This was a game that most if not all picked us too lose. We got very little from our best offensive player. Call me an eternal optimistic, but I'm not all that concerned with the return trip.
The last few years with Saint John's, they've handled us with ease in NY and we've handled them with ease in Milwaukee. Hopefully the trend will continue this year. If I had to guess the result before the game, I'd have guessed a loss, but I thought we'd have been more competitive. We need a road win to boost our confidence.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 02, 2019, 08:23:17 AM
The last few years with Saint John's, they've handled us with ease in NY and we've handled them with ease in Milwaukee. Hopefully the trend will continue this year. If I had to guess the result before the game, I'd have guessed a loss, but I thought we'd have been more competitive. We need a road win to boost our confidence.
Yep, as mentioned here
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=57360.0
we've struggled in NY recently. The good news is, that our next road game is in Omaha, and despite CU having a decent team this year, the last time we lost there Sandy led us with 6 boards, and Derrick led us with 5 assists. No place to rebound like your home away from home.
This game reminded me of the Indiana game. Both Indiana and St. John's seemed to be quicker at every position.
Knot enough athleticism and those athletes we have are stuck in molasses slow. And, Markus does need 6 more inches, hey?
Quote from: damuts222 on January 02, 2019, 07:12:45 AM
\
And maybe at some point the same will be said about you and our team. One game does not make a season.
You point out where others are incorrect, yet the majority around the country were not been impressed by the Johnnies until last night. You act is if you told him so, but ya didn't. Your opinion isn't known until after the fact, and then you act as if I told you! Its a long season, R-E-L-A-X.
Argued the assesment earlier, thats why i brought it back up.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 01, 2019, 09:00:38 PM
Also, who wouldn't be 13-1 (or better) with that schedule?
Well they should be 14-0 as the refs absolutely stole the game at Seton Hall from them. Can't be much better than that. And I assume there are at least a few teams out there who might lose legitimately to Seton Hall on the road or MU at home.
Quote from: tower912 on January 02, 2019, 06:00:14 AM
Congratulations. Something new for you to whine about. Some teams are bad match ups. Marquette was a bad match up for Wisconsin, Kansas State, Buffalo. St. Johns on the road was a bad match up. They kicked MU's butt. Next.
I don't buy this. Having a caveat of "on the road" shouldn't be a part of whether a team is a bad matchup or not. It's about personnel and style of play, which are the same regardless of where a game is played. If you want to say that we don't match up well with SJU because they're quicker and more athletic than us, sure I'll buy that, but that's true in both NYC and Milwaukee.
Also, just saying any game that is lost is a bad matchup doesn't make sense either. Buffalo was on the receiving end of one of the best the best offensive halves of basketball in NCAA history. They matched up fine with Markus. He just went nuts. If we had torched them inside, then yeah, maybe it was a bad matchup since they're smaller. But our size advantage wasn't the reason we ran away with that one.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 02, 2019, 09:01:01 AM
Well they should be 14-0 as the refs absolutely stole the game at Seton Hall from them. Can't be much better than that. And I assume there are at least a few teams out there who might lose legitimately to Seton Hall on the road or MU at home.
The refs stole the game at SHU and made the game unplayable for MU, so basically one hand washing the other. But you're right, those are losable games. But their 12-0 start I think would've been replicated by most if not all of the league.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 02, 2019, 10:16:47 AM
I don't buy this. Having a caveat of "on the road" shouldn't be a part of whether a team is a bad matchup or not. It's about personnel and style of play, which are the same regardless of where a game is played. If you want to say that we don't match up well with SJU because they're quicker and more athletic than us, sure I'll buy that, but that's true in both NYC and Milwaukee.
Also, just saying any game that is lost is a bad matchup doesn't make sense either. Buffalo was on the receiving end of one of the best the best offensive halves of basketball in NCAA history. They matched up fine with Markus. He just went nuts. If we had torched them inside, then yeah, maybe it was a bad matchup since they're smaller. But our size advantage wasn't the reason we ran away with that one.
It's true in both venues, but it is more true in a venue where SJU is going to get more calls and make more shots. They still aren't a good matchup for us in Milwaukee, but I think we'll be fine. I think Buffalo was a pretty bad matchup for us too but we caught fire. Kansas State and Wisconsin are much better matchups for us. Kansas was a decent matchup for us too, they are just more talented.
Looking at the next 5 games....I think we match up pretty well with Xavier. Creighton is going to score on us but they won't stop us either. I think we match up well with Seton Hall mostly because Willard runs an offense that doesn't give us a ton of trouble. I haven't watched Georgetown much. Govan will be tough to deal with but I think other than that we're just better. And for the first time in forever, I think we matchup well with Providence.
This game sucked. But I think we end up beating X, losing to Creighton in a heartbreaker, then winning the following 4 games.
Quote from: tower912 on January 01, 2019, 08:38:31 PM
Some days you are the dog, some days you are the hydrant.
I bet you have that posted at the fire station.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 02, 2019, 10:38:04 AM
The refs stole the game at SHU and made the game unplayable for MU, so basically one hand washing the other. But you're right, those are losable games. But their 12-0 start I think would've been replicated by most if not all of the league.
The refs were a factor, but we played poorly. When Markus goes 2-15 and we shoot 29% from the three point line it is tough to win.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 02, 2019, 01:03:06 PM
I bet you have that posted at the fire station.
Nah, that one is mine.
St. Johns is a super talented team of street ballers. When they're on, they're going to be really tough to beat. When they're not, they are going to get smoked.
To be honest, I don't think any D1 teams beats St Johns last night with the way the game was called. Marquette played very poorly, but they also just ran into a buzzsaw.
Just have to tip your cap and move onto the next one. It will be a nice teaching experience for Wojo, and I doubt we see another 32 minute stretch of reffing that one sided again this season.
"Street ballers??"
They play a lot like Buzz's Marquette teams did. Spread the floor with switchables, attack the basket, and move the ball. I have watched about two and a half of their games this year, and I have been pretty impressed with how far they have come. I also really don't understand the criticism of Mullin either.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on January 02, 2019, 02:15:03 PM
"Street ballers??"
They play a lot like Buzz's Marquette teams did. Spread the floor with switchables, attack the basket, and move the ball. I have watched about two and a half of their games this year, and I have been pretty impressed with how far they have come. I also really don't understand the criticism of Mullin either.
SJU is very entertaining to watch, but they're so undisciplined. A ton of hero ball. A ton of ally-opp attempts and crazy passes. Undersized bigs. They're super talented, and when they play like they did last night they're going to be extremely difficult to beat without terribly one-sided officiating for the first 75% of the game. With the poor officiating, we never really stood a chance without Markus going off for 50, and that obviously didn't happen.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 02, 2019, 02:23:01 PM
SJU is very entertaining to watch, but they're so undisciplined. A ton of hero ball. A ton of ally-opp attempts and crazy passes. Undersized bigs. They're super talented, and when they play like they did last night they're going to be extremely difficult to beat without terribly one-sided officiating for the first 75% of the game. With the poor officiating, we never really stood a chance without Markus going off for 50, and that obviously didn't happen.
Refs were bad, but hardly the reason we lost. Refs did not make Markus go 2-15. We lost that game on our own.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on January 02, 2019, 02:15:03 PM
"Street ballers??"
They play a lot like Buzz's Marquette teams did. Spread the floor with switchables, attack the basket, and move the ball. I have watched about two and a half of their games this year, and I have been pretty impressed with how far they have come. I also really don't understand the criticism of Mullin either.
Follow up on the game from the NY Post.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/01/st-johns-delivers-emphatic-win-after-seton-hall-controversy/
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 02, 2019, 02:34:29 PM
Refs were bad, but hardly the reason we lost. Refs did not make Markus go 2-15. We lost that game on our own.
No doubt. I literally said in the post that SJU would be terribly difficult to beat when they play like that WITHOUT assistance from the refs.
The refs are not the reason MU lost the game. But the first 30 minutes of the game MU was called for every single ticky tack foul possible while SJU was handsy AF and abusing guys in the paint and it was continually allowed to play on. Also several SJU travels not called that lead to points. And the double tech shouldn't have been a tech on Theo, who did nothing. And Heron should have gotten tech'd for slamming the ball on the floor after a dunk and the ball almost went to half court (game was already over at that point though).
There were a ton of bad calls, but MU played bad and wouldn't have won the game even if it were called more evenly.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 02, 2019, 02:23:01 PM
SJU is very entertaining to watch, but they're so undisciplined. A ton of hero ball. A ton of ally-opp attempts and crazy passes. Undersized bigs. They're super talented, and when they play like they did last night they're going to be extremely difficult to beat without terribly one-sided officiating for the first 75% of the game. With the poor officiating, we never really stood a chance without Markus going off for 50, and that obviously didn't happen.
I think some of the "undisciplined" stuff we saw last night is just what you tend to see from good athletes who feel like they're in control of a game. When you're up big, especially in a big game, college kids sometimes show off a bit and go for some big plays. Maybe that's undisciplined, but I think more than anything, it's just kids having fun playing basketball.
Having a 20+ minute stretch without a turnover might be a fluke, but that seems like a pretty disciplined team to me. After starting the game off a little sloppy/carless on offense, they did a really good job of protecting the ball, which played a role in helping them pull away in the second half.
I think we can say that STJ is better than we all thought. Two good games against good teams (SH,MU). But the reality will only be proven over time.
don't mind the Sand Troll. He zapped me a week ago and I notice its his modus operandi.
Quote from: tower912 on January 02, 2019, 06:00:14 AM
Congratulations. Something new for you to whine about. Some teams are bad match ups. Marquette was a bad match up for Wisconsin, Kansas State, Buffalo. St. Johns on the road was a bad match up. They kicked MU's butt. Next.
Next what? Ass kicking????
Quote from: willie warrior on January 02, 2019, 05:58:54 PM
Next what? Ass kicking????
He who hath the wee'est of willies whines worst.