1. Remember when some wanted Wojo gone? Remember when some thought Markus was playing too much hero ball?
2. Buffalo came out and punched MU right in the mouth. (I never read tonight's game thread, but if tradition holds there was some really stupid stuff written) MU withstood even with Markus in foul trouble. It is a testament to the rest of the team and to Wojo as a coach that the team rode the storm out and came back getting little from Markus in the first half. The team will be better for it.
3. Theo John is a baaaddddddd man. Almost as much fun as the old block parties. So is Ed Morrow. I would have been in traction if I took a fall like that.
4. Markus' third foul was dumb. And Sam's two to start the second half were careless.
5. Buffalo will not lose a game in the MAC. That is a tough team.
6. I don't know that I was unhappy with a single shot all night (other than Sacar's. Finish strong). Good looks did not fall.
7. Cain and Chartouny played well. Chartouny probably should have played more in the second half.
8. Rebounding and defense. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
9. Hero ball. You die with it, you live with it. A star turn from a star. There will be other frustrating games. There always are. But the kid deserves some love. He is a special college basketball player.
10. A great team effort tonight. Triple freakin digits. Against a top 15 team.
11. MU has played a tough non-conference schedule and is (more than likely. I assume MU will beat Southern) going to finish up with only 2 losses. And some still lost their minds. There are questions. How will MU play on the road in conference. But MU has only played 3 bad halves of basketball through 12 games. There will be league road losses. Accept it and hold onto your (crap). This is a good team. Stay healthy and it will be just fine.
Wheres duanewade?
Doesn't want to come out and play anymore?
Bitch
I'll argue that's the second best win of the Woj era. That Buffalo team is really good. Huge, huge win.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 21, 2018, 09:55:14 PM
Wheres duanewade?
Doesn't want to come out and play anymore?
I'm excited to see how this win gets minimized and wojo gets no credit
wojo's job safe for another game?
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 21, 2018, 09:56:17 PM
I'm excited to see how this win gets minimized and wojo gets no credit
Outstanding job managing the foul trouble.
Haven't seen anything like what Markus did since Pistol Pete Maravich, that was just scary.
Buffalo stopped flopping in second half, got the message from refs in first half.
Cain got Bailey's minutes tonight. Joe C made two bad turnovers at about 13 minute mark in second half. Put Cain in for Joe, Wojo pissed. For almost entire time since that, it was Markus, Cain, Sam, Joey and Theo. Rest is history.
Finally Theo with no early fouls and sent to bench. He was outstanding because he knew fouls not an issue and he could be aggressive.
Sacar was like 1 for 11, but he took over from Sam, early in first half, on defense of Massinberg.
Only three turnovers in second half.
I'm glad this game was when it was. Enjoy the holiday, come back for a let down against Southern, and then the conference starts. I'm very glad Southern is sandwiched where it is on the schedule.
This was fun. When Howard gets in a zone like that, anything he throws up is a good shoot.
I will never slander Markus hero ball ever again
We have a question on our culture fit interview script at work that asks "tell us about something you did successfully that you would never want to do again?". Playing Buffalo would be an acceptable answer.
Some gotta buy Theo a nice rub and tug tonight
What a stud
Lead story on SportsCenter
I have minimal insight. That was amazing. I was cackling like a weirdo in a half empty BWW in Oxford OH during the Markus video game montage.
1. 40 points in a half. After sucking in the first half. A-freakin'-mazing.
2. Markus' second half was the most impressive thing in the game. Duh. But a close second: How well the rest of the team did when Markus was stinking up the joint in the first half.
3. Here's the Buffalo News quickie lead:
MILWAUKEE -- The University at Buffalo finally ran into a guard it could not lock up Friday night.
Marquette point guard Markus Howard scored 45 points in leading the 20th-ranked Golden Eagles to a 103-85 victory over the 14th-ranked Bulls. Howard scored 40 of his points after halftime.
Howard, a 5-foot-11 junior, was averaging 23.2 points a game. He's the preseason favorite for Big East player of the year. Perimeter defense is a big strength of the Bulls, but Howard's quick release was too tough for UB.
That's the thing. Buffalo is a good defensive team that has not let good shooters get going all season.
4. Also only 1 TO in the second half after 5 in the first half.
5. Loved hearing Bardo rave about our defense.
6. The narrative that it was time for Theo to sit down and cede the position to the more experienced Morrow ... buh-bye. As usual, Wojo has a very nice feel for how to manage the 5 position; even when he was learning on the fly earlier in his head-coaching career, he had a nice feel there. Go with the most effective man on any given night. Great job, Theo. Great job, Wojo. And for that matter ... great job, Ed. He didn't do anything bad to have minutes taken away. He was good when he was in there. But Theo played extraordinarily well against a tough, veteran team.
7. Really liked what we got from Cain, and really liked how Wojo managed the wing minutes, too.
8. Except for the 2 fouls at the start of the second half, very smart and efficient game from Sam. Hit some big 3s when we needed them after he came back into the game.
9. Very, very entertaining game. Watching on TV, our crowd sounded loud and into it.
10. JCS with a nice game. Hit a huge shot-clock 3, made another 3, really helped the team in the first half when Markus was either stinking or in foul trouble (or both).
11. The Warrior Eagles have already exceeded my expectations, as I predicted 10-3 in NC. (Yes, I'm assuming win over Southern; shoot me.) Sky's the limit for this team. We have a lot of ways to beat opponents.
12. I wish the BEast season started in 3 or 4 days! Looking forward to taking down the Johnnies.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on December 21, 2018, 10:26:12 PM
I have minimal insight. That was amazing. I was cackling like a weirdo in a half empty BWW in Oxford OH during the Markus video game montage.
Oh man, I do the cackle too after any sort of big run. Hope my downstairs neighbours didn't hear me jumping.
Great Performance . Thoroughly enjoyed the work of the team . Kudos to the coaching staff.
The sounds coming out of me during the second half could only be described with your word...cackling. And I enjoyed every minute of it
Nice to see Jamal get a little run. Had a bad TO but got back and made a great defensive play.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 21, 2018, 10:37:22 PM
Nice to see Jamal get a little run. Had a bad TO but got back and made a great defensive play.
And good that he was left in after the TO. He seemed to play with more focus and confidence tonight.
That buffalo team is legit. I would not want to play them in March. Great win!
Digging that it was on a Friday night, too. I wish we had some of those during the conference season.
Quote from: nyg on December 21, 2018, 10:06:32 PM
Haven't seen anything like what Markus did since Pistol Pete Maravich, that was just scary.
Buffalo stopped flopping in second half, got the message from refs in first half.
Cain got Bailey's minutes tonight. Joe C made two bad turnovers at about 13 minute mark in second half. Put Cain in for Joe, Wojo pissed. For almost entire time since that, it was Markus, Cain, Sam, Joey and Theo. Rest is history.
Finally Theo with no early fouls and sent to bench. He was outstanding because he knew fouls not an issue and he could be aggressive.
Sacar was like 1 for 11, but he took over from Sam, early in first half, on defense of Massinberg.
Only three turnovers in second half.
Box says that Joe C only had one TO. The fact that no one other than Markus had more than one TO is very encouraging, even Jamal's bad TO was amended by his run down block.
When one player goes off the way that Markus did, it's easy to say that there was no balance offensively, but three others had double digits not including Theo's monster all around game.
Sacar struggled shooting, but made up for it with some nice D. I believe Massingburg had 9 1st half points, and he only had 12 when Joey fouled him for the 4 point play. Ended up with 18, but the second half D on him was excellent until it was out of reach.
Great all around win.
Quote from: marquette09 on December 21, 2018, 10:39:38 PM
That buffalo team is legit. I would not want to play them in March. Great win!
4 quality wins going into conference play.
Even without Markus going nuclear there are so many positives to take away from tonight.
-John/Morrow combo. Feel great about both of them.
-Joe looked better
-Really positive minutes from Jamal in a big game
-Joey just keeps getting better
There was offensive balance. It was all Markus in the second half and everyone but Markus in the first half.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 21, 2018, 10:46:50 PM
Box says that Joe C only had one TO. The fact that no one other than Markus had more than one TO is very encouraging, even Jamal's bad TO was amended by his run down block.
When one player goes off the way that Markus did, it's easy to say that there was no balance offensively, but three others had double digits not including Theo's monster all around game.
Sacar struggled shooting, but made up for it with some nice D. I believe Massingburg had 9 1st half points, and he only had 12 when Joey fouled him for the 4 point play. Ended up with 18, but the second half D on him was excellent until it was out of reach.
Great all around win.
Great points, IDJO.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 21, 2018, 10:37:22 PM
Nice to see Jamal get a little run. Had a bad TO but got back and made a great defensive play.
Loved seeing Cain. He also made a couple excellent defensive decisions, like jabbing to the lane but floating back on the corner three man, that won't get any pub but were huge. He was very good.
I don't know that I have seen an MU individual offense performance better than Markus in H2. Amazing
Defense great. Even when we were chasing in 1h the help and rim protection was very good.
This is the second best team we have played this year. Great way to end a tough non conf schedule.
Markus's 2nd half performance was flat out sick.
Not sure if I've ever witnessed anything quite like it.
Sick.
Rewatching the game and didn't notice this during the game. When Sacar got hacked...I mean, blocked out of bounds...to the ground towards the end of the first half the guy who hac...I mean, blocked...him said something to him. Theo heard it and gave him a little shoulder and said something to him. Love it.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 21, 2018, 11:17:58 PM
Rewatching the game and didn't notice this during the game. When Sacar got hacked...I mean, blocked out of bounds...to the ground towards the end of the first half the guy who hac...I mean, blocked...him said something to him. Theo heard it and gave him a little shoulder and said something to him. Love it.
Anyone who says Wojo can't develop players just needs to look at Theo.
I'm extremely pleased with how we won. Rode out the storm and got very well rounded contributions. Theo played the best game of his career, and he's going to continue to get better.
I'll add... we need to give some credit to the refs for not calling all those Buffalo flops.
Quote from: Autoengineer on December 21, 2018, 11:35:12 PM
I'll add... we need to give some credit to the refs for not calling all those Buffalo flops.
Agreed. I even said it out loud when they didn't call the second one.
There was a point in the game -maybe around 8 minutes to go - where I said out loud that Buffalo just quit. It was a point where they knew they weren't going to beat Marquette.
A great thing to see - that is what we should do to opponents on our home floor. Take away their will to fight.
Quote from: Jockey on December 21, 2018, 11:58:12 PM
There was a point in the game -maybe around 8 minutes to go - where I said out loud that Buffalo just quit. It was a point where they knew they weren't going to beat Marquette.
A great thing to see - that is what we should do to opponents on our home floor. Take away their will to fight.
I think I know the point you're talking about. I turned to Mrs. 82 and said, "For the first time, I'm sure we're gonna win this game."
Apologizing in advance ...
After our game ended, I couldn't help but watch Providence go into the Shaka Shack and take down the Fightin' Shakas.
Also, if only we coulda picked Cuonzo so he coulda left us for Mizzou after accomplishing next to nothing.
All right ... back to our regularly scheduled program.
In the 52 point game against Providence, Markus had 42 in the second half and overtime. So, we HAVE seen something close to this before.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083252
Box. Lots of big numbers.
Quote from: tower912 on December 22, 2018, 12:31:03 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083252
Box. Lots of big numbers.
Tatanka basically had a 6-man rotation? What was the deal with Montell McRae that he only played 5 min?
Quote from: barfolomew on December 22, 2018, 01:00:12 AM
Tatanka basically had a 6-man rotation? What was the deal with Montell McRae that he only played 5 min?
I do think they hit a bit of a wall in fairness. Had a pretty tough game against Cuse then traveled to Milwaukee.
Buuuuuut I couldn't care less if they were tired or not.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on December 21, 2018, 10:52:09 PM
Loved seeing Cain. He also made a couple excellent defensive decisions, like jabbing to the lane but floating back on the corner three man, that won't get any pub but were huge. He was very good.
Cain was able.
Quote from: barfolomew on December 22, 2018, 01:00:12 AM
Tatanka basically had a 6-man rotation? What was the deal with Montell McRae that he only played 5 min?
He had a pretty bad 5 minutes. 0/3 from the field and 3 fouls. He just wasn't strong enough to handle us down low.
After getting over the "holy forking shirtballs" part of this game, I was finally able to think through it.
1. What Markus did was highly impressive. His eyes glazed over and you could tell it was time. I told my wife after the and-1 3 pt that he might go nuclear because had the eye glaze over.
2. That said, this was one of my favorite "team" games. 1st half against Kansas was close. It felt like we are more of a unit. Everyone contributed big plays all over the stat sheet.
3. JC got some swagger back last night. Love it.
4. Jamal played with a ton of heart. Much smarter. More in control. More confidence.
5. It's beginning to look like the FF is gonna be a weapon. Home court advantage feels a lot more like an advantage than it did in the BC.
6. Theo John is fun as heck. Between him and Morrow, teams are less thrilled to get in the lane. Best center combo in a long time.
7. Hausers gonna Hausers. I hate to use "blue collar efforts" because that seems to imply they make up for talent with hustle--clearly both are exceptionally talented--but when Markus was struggling in the 1h, those to just found ways to get buckets. They have a drive that we haven't had in the last 5 years that makes them stoppers on d and guys that get a basket when we most desparately need it. Yeoman's work.
8. Wojo has taken a big step forward. Adjustments. Defense. It'shappening.gif. Credit where credit is due: he's filled the cupboard and now baking the cake--and it is a fun one. This run is a good one to point recruits to and say "this is the style we play and it'll showcase you if you buy in."
9. Things feel right in the world. I missed this feeling when watching Marquette play and this may be one of my favorite groups of men to see play like this. Tip of the cap to those to had more RTP faith than me.
Quote from: Archies Bat on December 21, 2018, 10:38:53 PM
And good that he was left in after the TO. He seemed to play with more focus and confidence tonight.
He made a sweet block immediately after the bad TO that must have spared him the hook. Was really happy for him to have a solid game and see some shots fall. He does seem to have butter fingers at times lately, which leads to some of his TOs. Strange. Crazy how that stuff seems to happen when someone loses confidence. Hopefully he got some back last night.
I want to comment on 3 guys who all had perhaps their best games of the season. Theo was an absolute monster at the rim. And Markus correctly indicated that perhaps no player had grown more from last year. After a really rough outing against North Dakota, that's the Chartouny we need this year. Ran the offense with confidence and even nailed a shot or two. Lastly, instead of thinking about where his mid-major landing spot might be, Cain decided to put his nose to the grindstone and work. He was critical to last night's success against a very quick team. I'm thrilled he saw success and earned Wojo's confidence playing meaningful minutes in crunch time.
I didn't want to lose all that in the aftermath of a historic performance.
I like watching Joey finding his groove a little bit more in each game. You can see his confidence building.
What I also liked about this game is that it showed that MU can win multiple ways. A grind it out game v. UW a couple weeks ago. And a faster paced, more high scoring game last night. Wojo can be more versatile with the guys he has.
Joey - made some serious buckets when it looked to me like Buffalo was about to open up a serious lead. He's done this several times this year - with very timely buckets.
Joe C - Wojo's message to him at the half must have been "Shoot the forking ball" - and he did, with confidence. I actually think he's a better shooter about 3 feet behind the line than with toes on the line.
Cain - we played better when he was in the game. He didn't actually do a lot on offense, but his defense was a level better than the other guys his size
Sacar - sacrificed his scoring for the team by taking tough and tiring defensive assignments.
Theo and Markus and Sam had pretty good games too.
1. Game plan was great early: use the Sam mismatch to get easy looks. Kept us in it early with Markus struggling.
2. Absolutely loved the effort tonight. We kept our resolve early down 9-10 and hustled constantly.
3. Theo was a monster tonight. Very nice defensive awareness, a few of those blocks were due to him leaving his man and attacking the drive
4. Cain wasn't flawless but he did what he needed to. It's gotta be tough going from garbage minutes to big minutes in a big game. I appreciated his performance tonight.
5. The pull up 3 from Joe was a ballsy shot, glad it went in. The confidence surprised me
6. Markus. Not much else to say. He's added a shot to his arsenal every year. I think this year is the shallow bank on the drive. Weird angle, tough shot
Quote from: HammerScreen on December 23, 2018, 10:11:49 AM
1. Game plan was great early: use the Sam mismatch to get easy looks. Kept us in it early with Markus struggling.
2. Absolutely loved the effort tonight. We kept our resolve early down 9-10 and hustled constantly.
3. Theo was a monster tonight. Very nice defensive awareness, a few of those blocks were due to him leaving his man and attacking the drive
4. Cain wasn't flawless but he did what he needed to. It's gotta be tough going from garbage minutes to big minutes in a big game. I appreciated his performance tonight.
5. The pull up 3 from Joe was a ballsy shot, glad it went in. The confidence surprised me
6. Markus. Not much else to say. He's added a shot to his arsenal every year. I think this year is the shallow bank on the drive. Weird angle, tough shot
You do realize this game was played 2 nights ago, right?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 23, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
You do realize this game was played 2 nights ago, right?
hey, sometimes things run a little slower than usual :D
Rewatching game now. 8-)
Quote from: real chili 83 on December 23, 2018, 07:13:04 PM
Rewatching game now. 8-)
I sat down to rewatch yesterday. At about the 10 minute mark of the second half, I realized I did not hit the "extend 30minutes for sporting event" option, and missed the last 8 minutes or so!
Quote from: Archies Bat on December 24, 2018, 06:26:47 AM
I sat down to rewatch yesterday. At about the 10 minute mark of the second half, I realized I did not hit the "extend 30minutes for sporting event" option, and missed the last 8 minutes or so!
Full game link here:
https://youtu.be/tsroNL6pv0o
Quote from: YoungMUFan4 on December 24, 2018, 06:40:36 AM
Full game link here:
https://youtu.be/tsroNL6pv0o
Thank you.
Quote from: MU82 on December 21, 2018, 10:30:24 PM
1. 40 points in a half. After sucking in the first half. A-freakin'-mazing.
2. Markus' second half was the most impressive thing in the game. Duh. But a close second: How well the rest of the team did when Markus was stinking up the joint in the first half.
3. Here's the Buffalo News quickie lead:
MILWAUKEE -- The University at Buffalo finally ran into a guard it could not lock up Friday night.
Marquette point guard Markus Howard scored 45 points in leading the 20th-ranked Golden Eagles to a 103-85 victory over the 14th-ranked Bulls. Howard scored 40 of his points after halftime.
Howard, a 5-foot-11 junior, was averaging 23.2 points a game. He's the preseason favorite for Big East player of the year. Perimeter defense is a big strength of the Bulls, but Howard's quick release was too tough for UB.
That's the thing. Buffalo is a good defensive team that has not let good shooters get going all season.
4. Also only 1 TO in the second half after 5 in the first half.
5. Loved hearing Bardo rave about our defense.
6. The narrative that it was time for Theo to sit down and cede the position to the more experienced Morrow ... buh-bye. As usual, Wojo has a very nice feel for how to manage the 5 position; even when he was learning on the fly earlier in his head-coaching career, he had a nice feel there. Go with the most effective man on any given night. Great job, Theo. Great job, Wojo. And for that matter ... great job, Ed. He didn't do anything bad to have minutes taken away. He was good when he was in there. But Theo played extraordinarily well against a tough, veteran team.
7. Really liked what we got from Cain, and really liked how Wojo managed the wing minutes, too.
8. Except for the 2 fouls at the start of the second half, very smart and efficient game from Sam. Hit some big 3s when we needed them after he came back into the game.
9. Very, very entertaining game. Watching on TV, our crowd sounded loud and into it.
10. JCS with a nice game. Hit a huge shot-clock 3, made another 3, really helped the team in the first half when Markus was either stinking or in foul trouble (or both).
11. The Warrior Eagles have already exceeded my expectations, as I predicted 10-3 in NC. (Yes, I'm assuming win over Southern; shoot me.) Sky's the limit for this team. We have a lot of ways to beat opponents.
12. I wish the BEast season started in 3 or 4 days! Looking forward to taking down the Johnnies.
The term Warrior Eagles, point 11, has a nice ring to it. Applies well to the defense and rebounding on display by this MU team. Theo is a definite Warrior Eagle; so is Ed.
Quote from: YoungMUFan4 on December 24, 2018, 06:40:36 AM
Full game link here:
https://youtu.be/tsroNL6pv0o
Outside of the Nova win, probably the most fun I've had at a game in years. Not just the Markus show, but the Hausers hitting huge threes, Theo sending shots away, so much fun.
Quote from: StillWarriors on December 22, 2018, 08:41:29 AM
He made a sweet block immediately after the bad TO that must have spared him the hook. Was really happy for him to have a solid game and see some shots fall. He does seem to have butter fingers at times lately, which leads to some of his TOs. Strange. Crazy how that stuff seems to happen when someone loses confidence. Hopefully he got some back last night.
Was really happy to see Wojo not hook Cain after the turnover. Cain did get the quick hook a few times earlier this season, which then led to his essential benching after Louisville game.
Cain has always played hard. If he'd gotten the quick hook against Buffalo, never would have seen the rest of his production for the game. He's a talented kid, does need to get stronger, more sure handed with the ball - but hope to continue to see him get a little "grace" after mistakes.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 24, 2018, 02:05:32 PM
Was really happy to see Wojo not hook Cain after the turnover. Cain did get the quick hook a few times earlier this season, which then led to his essential benching after Louisville game.
Cain has always played hard. If he'd gotten the quick hook against Buffalo, never would have seen the rest of his production for the game. He's a talented kid, does need to get stronger, more sure handed with the ball - but hope to continue to see him get a little "grace" after mistakes.
Cain earned that lack of a hook. Followed the turnover by not sulking but hustling back and making a huge block at the other end. That's the kind of thing that earns you more playing time.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 24, 2018, 02:25:48 PM
Cain earned that lack of a hook. Followed the turnover by not sulking but hustling back and making a huge block at the other end. That's the kind of thing that earns you more playing time.
That play may possibly have changed the trajectory of his participation this year .
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 24, 2018, 02:25:48 PM
Cain earned that lack of a hook. Followed the turnover by not sulking but hustling back and making a huge block at the other end. That's the kind of thing that earns you more playing time.
I've never seen Cain sulk/not hustle. You could make that argument with JJJ on occasion, but not Cain IMO.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 24, 2018, 05:14:42 PM
I've never seen Cain sulk/not hustle. You could make that argument with JJJ on occasion, but not Cain IMO.
Did I say he did? I said he didn't and went down and made a big play
I don't think Cain was ever in the "doghouse." Just like I don't think Bailey was in The "doghouse" Friday. I think Bailey was playing better basketball than Cain the previous handful of games. And Cain played much better against Buffalo. Cain was frankly pretty bad early in the season. Hopefully Buffalo was a season turning game for him.
Cain had a quick hook because he would make a mistake and then compound it by making another because he was trying too hard to make up for the first. Wojo has had the same hook for Chartouney at times but not as frequently because we simply dont have many options at then1/2.
In the Buffalo game, Jamal had a lot more "shrug it off" to his game than hes had before and Wojo let him play as a result. I've been there, it's tough on you but its smart coaching.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 24, 2018, 05:15:48 PM
Did I say he did? I said he didn't and went down and made a big play
Cain has never sulked or not hustled after a bad play/turnover, and he's been pulled - after just one turnover. Playing hard isn't enough to avoid the quick hook. I recall only one game where he got to play to a second turnover without being pulled immediately after the first turnover - and that was L'ville game. (And then he never came back in the game.)
Glad Wojo let him ride out that first turnover against Buffalo. Helps a kid's confidence to give him a little slack - and as Wojo said in post-game, Jamal has kept a good attitude through going from starter to seeing scrub time in the 5 games preceding Buffalo.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 25, 2018, 10:30:14 AM
Cain has never sulked or not hustled after a bad play/turnover, and he's been pulled - after just one turnover. Playing hard isn't enough to avoid the quick hook. I recall only one game where he got to play to a second turnover without being pulled immediately after the first turnover - and that was L'ville game. (And then he never came back in the game.)
Glad Wojo let him ride out that first turnover against Buffalo. Helps a kid's confidence to give him a little slack - and as Wojo said in post-game, Jamal has kept a good attitude through going from starter to seeing scrub time in the 5 games preceding Buffalo.
This isn't true. There have been other times that Cain has played past a turnover or bad play. And again, no one said Cain has sulked in the past. But I can't think of a time when he followed up a bad play with such a good one. That's how you earn more playing time. By making good plays.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 25, 2018, 10:30:14 AM
Cain has never sulked or not hustled after a bad play/turnover, and he's been pulled - after just one turnover. Playing hard isn't enough to avoid the quick hook. I recall only one game where he got to play to a second turnover without being pulled immediately after the first turnover - and that was L'ville game. (And then he never came back in the game.)
Glad Wojo let him ride out that first turnover against Buffalo. Helps a kid's confidence to give him a little slack - and as Wojo said in post-game, Jamal has kept a good attitude through going from starter to seeing scrub time in the 5 games preceding Buffalo.
I think the play Jamal made blocking the shot after his turnover may be a season changer for him. Showed the heart he has and he got some good run after that. We are going to need Jamal to be at the level of play he was last year during our tough conference season when we face teams in conference with very athletic wings like Alpha Diallo etc
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 25, 2018, 11:21:58 AM
This isn't true. There have been other times that Cain has played past a turnover or bad play. And again, no one said Cain has sulked in the past. But I can't think of a time when he followed up a bad play with such a good one. That's how you earn more playing time. By making good plays.
Well, considering Jamal only has 2, multiple turnover games (3 against Kansas and 2 against L'ville, which he was permanently hooked thereafter), not sure how many "bad plays" Jamal has been allowed to play through.
Pretty hard to always make an immediate great play after you make a mistake. Just so happened to work out against Buffalo...and as a result we got some good production from Jamal and he got a boost to his confidence.
You need playing time to make some plays TAMU, and quite frankly none of Bailey or Sacar have been all that good this season either. Someone needs to step up and fill that wing role. I've been surprised Sacar hasn't taken a bigger step forward this season, thus far.
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 25, 2018, 11:26:21 AM
I think the play Jamal made blocking the shot after his turnover may be a season changer for him. Showed the heart he has and he got some good run after that. We are going to need Jamal to be at the level of play he was last year during our tough conference season when we face teams in conference with very athletic wings like Alpha Diallo etc
Agree Herm. Merry Christmas.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 25, 2018, 12:12:22 PM
Well, considering Jamal only has 2, multiple turnover games (3 against Kansas and 2 against L'ville, which he was permanently hooked thereafter), not sure how many "bad plays" Jamal has been allowed to play through.
Pretty hard to always make an immediate great play after you make a mistake. Just so happened to work out against Buffalo...and as a result we got some good production from Jamal and he got a boost to his confidence.
You need playing time to make some plays TAMU, and quite frankly none of Bailey or Sacar have been all that good this season either. Someone needs to step up and fill that wing role. I've been surprised Sacar hasn't taken a bigger step forward this season, thus far.
Turnovers aren't the only kind of bad play. Honestly, turnovers aren't Jamal's main issue, it's getting lost on defense.
Cain got plenty of playing time and worked his way to the back of the bench along with Bailey. When you put yourself there you earn more by making good plays (and avoiding bad ones) in the minutes you get. Simple as that. Sacar may be struggling on O but his defense has been stellar.
Jamal is a great player, has more upside than possibly any one else on this team. I could see him being like a Dwight Buycks situation where nobody has him on their NBA radars but after a few years out of college suddenly gets a few cups of coffee or maybe more. That's one of the reasons I advocated for him to be redshirtted this season. I want to see him reach that upside while he's still at Marquette, not playing overseas somewhere.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 25, 2018, 12:38:35 PM
Turnovers aren't the only kind of bad play. Honestly, turnovers aren't Jamal's main issue, it's getting lost on defense.
Cain got plenty of playing time and worked his way to the back of the bench along with Bailey. When you put yourself there you earn more by making good plays (and avoiding bad ones) in the minutes you get. Simple as that. Sacar may be struggling on O but his defense has been stellar.
Jamal is a great player, has more upside than possibly any one else on this team. I could see him being like a Dwight Buycks situation where nobody has him on their NBA radars but after a few years out of college suddenly gets a few cups of coffee or maybe more. That's one of the reasons I advocated for him to be redshirtted this season. I want to see him reach that upside while he's still at Marquette, not playing overseas somewhere.
Ding ding ding.
Jamal has had a few funky TO's this season. But I have been at every home game. And watched every other game in tv. The amount of times I have seen Jamal's guy going in for a layup or dunk or being wide open has to be over 10. I know that doesn't seem like a lot but it is glaringly obvious.
Floorslap: I agree Sacar needs a bigger role on O. But I would say he is easily been great on D given he has the hardest assignment every game.
And bailey has been pretty solid on D as well. But boy he needs some confidence behind his shot.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 25, 2018, 12:38:35 PM
Turnovers aren't the only kind of bad play. Honestly, turnovers aren't Jamal's main issue, it's getting lost on defense.
Cain got plenty of playing time and worked his way to the back of the bench along with Bailey. When you put yourself there you earn more by making good plays (and avoiding bad ones) in the minutes you get. Simple as that. Sacar may be struggling on O but his defense has been stellar.
Jamal is a great player, has more upside than possibly any one else on this team. I could see him being like a Dwight Buycks situation where nobody has him on their NBA radars but after a few years out of college suddenly gets a few cups of coffee or maybe more. That's one of the reasons I advocated for him to be redshirtted this season. I want to see him reach that upside while he's still at Marquette, not playing overseas somewhere.
Guess I'm not seeing the same things you are while watching Cain...as I don't routinely see his guy getting buckets and Jamal playing poor D. Jamal tends to be a great help defender with his length, so need to pay attention to that as well.
Do you have the Synergy numbers on D this season for D-rating? Sacar is probably the best defender of he, Cain and Bailey. Bailey has been abysmal on the O-end with his 33.8 eFG, but he doesn't turn it over (usually because he either shoots immediately upon getting the ball, or passes it off - rarely puts ball on the deck.) Bailey reminds me of Cohen, yet Sandy seemed to be a slightly better athlete.
It's pretty simple. 30+ MPG are going to be taken up at the 1, 3, 4, and 5 spots with Markus (1), Sam (3), Joey (4) and whichever of Theo/Ed is playing the best/out of foul trouble (5). So that pretty much means Cain's playing time comes at the 2, where he's competing for minutes with Chartouney (who can play the 1, but moves Markus over to the 2), Sacar, and Bailey. Wojo is going to give Sacar the biggest chance to stay on the court because Sacar is our best (or second, if you want to say Chartouney is our best) perimeter defender and he's held that spot for the past year and a half. And you pretty consistently know what you're getting from Sacar on a nightly basis.
Quite frankly Cain is not one of the five best players on the roster, and he won't be this season. Nothing wrong with that, but for anyone to think Wojo is misusing Cain and not giving him a fair shake is beyond silly. If Cain comes in and is playing great defense and hitting a couple shots without turning the ball over, Wojo's going to ride him a bit more. If Cain comes in and gets beat on a back door cut and then turns the ball over, Wojo's going to yank him. There are players behind Cain that can come in and produce just as well as him or better if Cain is not playing well. There aren't players behind Markus or Sam or Joey who can produce better than them if they make a couple of bad plays in a row.
It'd be like asking why Wojo yanks Matt Heldt so quickly if he gets beat defensively and crying that Matt never got a chance to get into an offensive rhythm. Well, Wojo yanks Matt Heldt quickly because Matt's job is to play good defense and maybe get a couple rebounds. Anything more than that is gravy. But if Matt isn't doing that then there are guys waiting on the bench who will do that. Same with Jamal.
Just because a guy can jump really high doesn't mean he has this infinite ceiling, or that he just needs to be on the court long enough to find a rhythm. The highest ceilings on this team are clearly Markus, Sam, and Joey. Markus will be an All American, maybe a 2 time All American, and might get some time in the NBA. Sam and Joey will play in the NBA. Cain will never come close to being an All American or in the NBA. And there's nothing wrong with that. I love Cain and the difference between this year and years past is that Wojo has been able to keep his secondary players in the program. To be a successful team you need guys around for the long haul that are never superstars.
But the fact of the matter is when you're not one of the 4 or 5 best players on the team and you aren't performing on the court, you're going to go to the bench in a 40 minute game of basketball. That's what Jamal is. Thankfully he seems to understand and accept that rather than pout and look for greener grass.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 25, 2018, 12:38:35 PM
Turnovers aren't the only kind of bad play. Honestly, turnovers aren't Jamal's main issue, it's getting lost on defense.
Cain got plenty of playing time and worked his way to the back of the bench along with Bailey. When you put yourself there you earn more by making good plays (and avoiding bad ones) in the minutes you get. Simple as that. Sacar may be struggling on O but his defense has been stellar.
Jamal is a great player, has more upside than possibly any one else on this team. I could see him being like a Dwight Buycks situation where nobody has him on their NBA radars but after a few years out of college suddenly gets a few cups of coffee or maybe more. That's one of the reasons I advocated for him to be redshirtted this season. I want to see him reach that upside while he's still at Marquette, not playing overseas somewhere.
Yep.
Ners appears to be setting up Cain as this year's version of Dawson or Tracy: the rotation player whose lack of playing time "proves" that Wojo can't coach.
Quote from: MU82 on December 25, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
Yep.
Ners appears to be setting up Cain as this year's version of Dawson or Tracy: the rotation player whose lack of playing time "proves" that Wojo can't coach.
Not this again 82. We are winning this year (that's a big difference between the two players above you reference.)
I complimented Wojo for staying with Jamal after the turnover against Buffalo, and as a result we got some good minutes out of him and those minutes/production no doubt help a kid's confidence.
Jamal can be a key ROLE player for this team this year. I don't see him as a major minute guy this season. Yet, IMO of Sacar and Bailey, Jamal his the highest upside. Being a good rebounder is also a key part of the defensive side of the ball.
Quote from: MU82 on December 25, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
Ners appears to be setting up Cain as this year's version of Dawson or Tracy: the rotation player whose lack of playing time "proves" that Wojo can't coach.
At least Ners hasn't disappeared with the team winning. We're all enjoying the results, but I'll admit that muguru/MU_Iceman has been pretty conspicuous by his absence. For a guy who seems to live and die with Marquette basketball, I guess he's only active when they are losing.
Unless, of course, he actually died with Marquette basketball... :-X
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 25, 2018, 04:01:27 PM
Not this again 82. We are winning this year (that's a big difference between the two players above you reference.)
Except both Dawson proved, and Traci is proving, that they aren't really P6 players.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 25, 2018, 01:34:30 PM
Guess I'm not seeing the same things you are while watching Cain...as I don't routinely see his guy getting buckets and Jamal playing poor D. Jamal tends to be a great help defender with his length, so need to pay attention to that as well.
Do you have the Synergy numbers on D this season for D-rating? Sacar is probably the best defender of he, Cain and Bailey. Bailey has been abysmal on the O-end with his 33.8 eFG, but he doesn't turn it over (usually because he either shoots immediately upon getting the ball, or passes it off - rarely puts ball on the deck.) Bailey reminds me of Cohen, yet Sandy seemed to be a slightly better athlete.
dPPP numbers per synergy
Theo John .565 (93rd percentile)
Markus Howard .629 (88th percentile)
Ed Morrow .725 (73rd percentile)
Joseph Chartouny .737 (71st percentile)
Sam Hauser .798 (60th percentile)
Sacar Anim .846 (48th percentile)
Joey Hauser .944 (27th percentile)
Brendan Bailey .957 (25th percentile)
Matt Heldt 1.095 (9th percentile)
Jamal Cain 1.184 (4th percentile)
A note on these numbers. They do not adjust based on who the defender is guarding. So Sacar for example is constantly matched up with one of the better offensive players so his numbers are lower. If I could figure out how to adjust for that I would be a rich man.
That looks about right. I think Joey has gotten better as the season has gone on, but he still sometimes looks a step slow on defense. And, he and Bailey are freshmen, so I am a little more patient with defensive rotation glitches.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 25, 2018, 04:01:27 PM
Not this again 82. We are winning this year (that's a big difference between the two players above you reference.)
I complimented Wojo for staying with Jamal after the turnover against Buffalo, and as a result we got some good minutes out of him and those minutes/production no doubt help a kid's confidence.
Jamal can be a key ROLE player for this team this year. I don't see him as a major minute guy this season. Yet, IMO of Sacar and Bailey, Jamal his the highest upside. Being a good rebounder is also a key part of the defensive side of the ball.
Jamal brings a lot to the table as a role player. In fact we are going to be needing him frequently in conference play. The wing talent in the league is strong and Jamal has the athletic ability and quickness to contribute enough to make a difference. Hopefully he can continue to play well in practice so he gets extended the minutes the way he did against Buffalo.
Quote from: tower912 on December 25, 2018, 07:12:06 PM
That looks about right. I think Joey has gotten better as the season has gone on, but he still sometimes looks a step slow on defense. And, he and Bailey are freshmen, so I am a little more patient with defensive rotation glitches.
Sam is a step slow too, just has gotten better on positioning himself on D, on O, he gets open when the team is running, otherwise he has a hard time getting
a shot. Much like Joey, better in the open court. Joey just needs time to get stronger with the ball down low. He is way ahead of Sam at the same point. Sam
could barely dribble the ball as a freshman. But a key point to this team, is that both can dribble up the court now, much means they can play Cain at the 2 guard.
It will be interesting to see how they play St. Johns midget team in a few days, much like Buffalo.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 26, 2018, 09:17:27 AM
Sam is a step slow too, just has gotten better on positioning himself on D, on O, he gets open when the team is running, otherwise he has a hard time getting
a shot. Much like Joey, better in the open court. Joey just needs time to get stronger with the ball down low. He is way ahead of Sam at the same point. Sam
could barely dribble the ball as a freshman. But a key point to this team, is that both can dribble up the court now, much means they can play Cain at the 2 guard.
It will be interesting to see how they play St. Johns midget team in a few days, much like Buffalo.
Sam could handle the ball fine as a frosh. Just was not needed for that purpose as Rowsey/Wilson/Cheatham/Renhardt/Howard took care of that. His handle and passing were just fine coming out of HS (saw him play a number of times including once in person). His problem as a frosh is that he could shoot off the dribble as opposed to Joey who is much better at that (though he has been loose with the ball).
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 25, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
Hopefully he can continue to play well in practice so he gets extended the minutes the way he did against Buffalo.
This
Quote from: wadesworld on December 23, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
You do realize this game was played 2 nights ago, right?
Haha, I rewatched twice. It was a nice early Christmas present
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 26, 2018, 09:17:27 AM
Sam could barely dribble the ball as a freshman.
Late candidate for dumbest comment of the year?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 25, 2018, 06:37:06 PM
dPPP numbers per synergy
Theo John .565 (93rd percentile)
Markus Howard .629 (88th percentile)
Ed Morrow .725 (73rd percentile)
Joseph Chartouny .737 (71st percentile)
Sam Hauser .798 (60th percentile)
Sacar Anim .846 (48th percentile)
Joey Hauser .944 (27th percentile)
Brendan Bailey .957 (25th percentile)
Matt Heldt 1.095 (9th percentile)
Jamal Cain 1.184 (4th percentile)
A note on these numbers. They do not adjust based on who the defender is guarding. So Sacar for example is constantly matched up with one of the better offensive players so his numbers are lower. If I could figure out how to adjust for that I would be a rich man.
Wow. Surprised to see Jamal as such a departure from the rest of the team. His numbers must be getting crushed from time on the floor against IU/Kansas, as the team's points allowed in other games he played in 10+ minutes average 60 points allowed.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 25, 2018, 06:37:06 PM
dPPP numbers per synergy
Theo John .565 (93rd percentile)
Markus Howard .629 (88th percentile)
Ed Morrow .725 (73rd percentile)
Joseph Chartouny .737 (71st percentile)
Sam Hauser .798 (60th percentile)
Sacar Anim .846 (48th percentile)
Joey Hauser .944 (27th percentile)
Brendan Bailey .957 (25th percentile)
Matt Heldt 1.095 (9th percentile)
Jamal Cain 1.184 (4th percentile)
A note on these numbers. They do not adjust based on who the defender is guarding. So Sacar for example is constantly matched up with one of the better offensive players so his numbers are lower. If I could figure out how to adjust for that I would be a rich man.
Matty Warrior, these defensive statistics.