According to KenPom.com, MU currently has the top rated adjusted defensive efficiency in the Big East -- after finishing 10th in the conference last season.
Personnel, not scheme.
Agreed. But different personnel also allows Wojo to do some different things scheme-wise. Seems like we've mixed in a bit more zone and trap defense this season.
Very little zone in the half court.
So their defense is much better...........but their offense is a little worse? Hmm.
Offense is quite a bit worse if you go by just this season's stats.
Defense much better......no Rowsey.....add Morrow(subtract Heldt) and JC and Joey. Defensive rebounding numbers much better along with just about everything else other then forcing turnovers.
Offense worse.....no Rowsey.....
Quote from: MuMark on December 14, 2018, 08:30:28 PM
Offense is quite a bit worse if you go by just this season's stats.
Defense much better......no Rowsey.....add Morrow(subtract Heldt) and JC and Joey. Defensive rebounding numbers much better along with just about everything else other then forcing turnovers.
Offense worse.....no Rowsey.....
Indeed it's much worse. Most didn't think it would be this bad, and will improve as the season progresses.
Some also didn't think our defense would improve as well as it has, and that it would have little effect on our offensive numbers.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 14, 2018, 08:58:53 PM
Indeed it's much worse. Most didn't think it would be this bad, and will improve as the season progresses.
Some also didn't think our defense would improve as well as it has, and that it would have little effect on our offensive numbers.
The trade off is worth it. Better defense gives more options to win than better offense in the long run. More ways to win. Kevin O'Neill's clubs proved that.
Quote from: tower912 on December 14, 2018, 07:45:01 PM
Personnel, not scheme.
lmfao
Anyone can tell they are not pressuring out nearly as far as the past 2 seasons
Makes perfect sense too
They don't have any quickness whatsoever
The pace of play has been limited to the high 70s
Give wojo credit...
He has realized he can't play duke ball at mu
Finally...
Very smart tactical change by wojo!!!!
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on December 14, 2018, 09:45:32 PM
lmfao
Anyone can tell they are not pressuring out nearly as far as the past 2 seasons
Makes perfect sense too
They don't have any quickness whatsoever
The pace of play has been limited to the high 70s
Give wojo credit...
He has realized he can't play duke ball at mu
Finally...
Very smart tactical change by wojo!!!!
So your contention that replacing a midget who had absolutely no interest in even trying to play defense with a couple of players who actually know how to play D and want to do it has little to do with our defensive improvement?
Quote from: WarriorDad on December 14, 2018, 09:29:26 PM
The trade off is worth it. Better defense gives more options to win than better offense in the long run. More ways to win. Kevin O'Neill's clubs proved that.
No sheet. Common sense proves it, hundreds of coaches and teams have proved it.....including KO.
Quote from: MuMark on December 14, 2018, 08:30:28 PM
Offense is quite a bit worse if you go by just this season's stats.
Defense much better......no Rowsey.....add Morrow(subtract Heldt) and JC and Joey. Defensive rebounding numbers much better along with just about everything else other then forcing turnovers.
Offense worse.....no Rowsey.....
I think you're spot on, though I do think the offense will get better as players get more comfortable in their rolls without the D declining.
My impression is that some of the straight man defense, specifically with Marcus and Theo, is much better than last year. Going into the WI game we all assumed Sacar would be on Trice the whole game but Marcus held him for the majority. That's more than just making up for Rowsey right?
Quote from: MU82 on December 14, 2018, 10:13:10 PM
So your contention that replacing a midget who had absolutely no interest in even trying to play defense with a couple of players who actually know how to play D and want to do it has little to do with our defensive improvement?
Not going to speak for him and agree personnel plays a huge part, but we have definitely overhauled/simplified our defense. Packing it in more, switching ball screens instead of the high hedge.
Personnel allows them to switch more. Imagine Heldt on a scoring guard. Morrow and Theo can do it just well enough. But we're starting the defense lower than we have in years past for sure. That was an adjustment and one that seems to be paying off. We are forcing far less turnovers but the other 3 of the 4 factors have greatly improved.
Quote from: MU82 on December 14, 2018, 10:13:10 PM
So your contention that replacing a midget who had absolutely no interest in even trying to play defense with a couple of players who actually know how to play D and want to do it has little to do with our defensive improvement?
Trying to find in my post anything that resembles what you refer to here...
Can't seem to find it.
I said they aren't Extending as far out on d.
Quote from: MU82 on December 14, 2018, 10:13:10 PM
So your contention that replacing a midget who had absolutely no interest in even trying to play defense with a couple of players who actually know how to play D and want to do it has little to do with our defensive improvement?
Replacing a midget with a "couple" extra defenders sounds like pushing the rules. But I can't disagree with the results! :-)
No question the def se is much improved whether it be personnel or scheme or both. We aren't hedging as much at the top of the key with outer bigs, and if we do Theo and Ed handle it better. Matt is very good under the basket for defense. We are oacking the paint a bit more, and in ball is better by Marcus. Sacar solid, JC pretty dood on D, is like to see more Jamal, and looking forward to Greg returning.
The offense will come around - when Sam, Marcus and Joey are all hitting at the same time, we will be hard to stop. Add Bailey hitting more, Jamal a few, Greg com8ng back - offense will be fine.
Go Marquette!
Quote from: naginiF on December 14, 2018, 10:32:37 PM
My impression is that some of the straight man defense, specifically with Marcus and Theo, is much better than last year. Going into the WI game we all assumed Sacar would be on Trice the whole game but Marcus held him for the majority.
Mar
kus did a fantastic job on Trice, much better than I think anyone would have bet. That allowed Sacar to slide over to Floppy McDickpuncher. What was his stat line, again? ;D
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on December 14, 2018, 09:45:32 PM
lmfao
Anyone can tell they are not pressuring out nearly as far as the past 2 seasons
Makes perfect sense too
They don't have any quickness whatsoever
The pace of play has been limited to the high 70s
Give wojo credit...
He has realized he can't play duke ball at mu
Finally...
Very smart tactical change by wojo!!!!
This is EXACTLY correct.
Seems to be a combination of factors.
1. We are a lot taller team now
2. Better defensive team rebounding
3. Better overall defensive scheme
4. More experience from our key contributers
5. Better help defense
I don't think Joey and Bailey are good defenders but they have length. Joe C's strength is his defense. Markus seems much improved on the defensive end. Anim has always been a good defender. Morrow is solid and John is improved from his early freshmen season. Heldt's minutes have decreased substantially which is good and Rowsey was an awful defender.
Quote from: naginiF on December 14, 2018, 10:32:37 PM
I think you're spot on, though I do think the offense will get better as players get more comfortable in their rolls without the D declining.
My impression is that some of the straight man defense, specifically with Marcus and Theo, is much better than last year. Going into the WI game we all assumed Sacar would be on Trice the whole game but Marcus held him for the majority. That's more than just making up for Rowsey right?
Markus is so much improved on the defensive end it's almost like he isn't the same guy.
Subtracting Rowsey and adding guys that are bigger, tougher and more capable of playing defense has made a world of difference. We are now capable of switching screens with guys like Joey, Morrow, Theo, Chartouny, Bailey and Sam without getting into horrible mismatches too often.
If teams score on us now ....for the most part ....they earn it.......last 2 years they either exploited a mismatch, took advantage of a breakdown or got an offensive rebound.
Ps Joey is better then I thought on that end....he lives his feet pretty well and doesn't back down against difficult assignments like Dean Wade.
Quote from: MuMark on December 15, 2018, 11:52:09 AM
Markus is so much improved on the defensive end it's almost like he isn't the same guy.
Subtracting Rowsey and adding guys that are bigger, tougher and more capable of playing defense has made a world of difference. We are now capable of switching screens with guys like Joey, Morrow, Theo, Chartouny, Bailey and Sam without getting into horrible mismatches too often.
If teams score on us now ....for the most part ....they earn it.......last 2 years they either exploited a mismatch, took advantage of a breakdown or got an offensive rebound.
Ps Joey is better then I thought on that end....he lives his feet pretty well and doesn't back down against difficult assignments like Dean Wade.
Agree with all of this. Markus' effort on the defensive end has been really impressive to see.
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on December 15, 2018, 06:24:52 AM
Trying to find in my post anything that resembles what you refer to here...
Can't seem to find it.
I said they aren't Extending as far out on d.
Well, unless I read it wrong, you started by laughing your effen arse off at the notion that personnel was more important than scheme to the improved defense.
I would contend that the changes in personnel made it possible to change the scheme, not vice versa. But sure, maybe I'm wrong about that.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 15, 2018, 09:16:13 AM
Replacing a midget with a "couple" extra defenders sounds like pushing the rules. But I can't disagree with the results! :-)
I can't believe we still haven't had a T called on us for having 6 guys on the court!
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 15, 2018, 11:56:49 AM
Agree with all of this. Markus' effort on the defensive end has been really impressive to see.
Well, he IS 19 now.
Quote from: MU82 on December 14, 2018, 10:13:10 PM
So your contention that replacing a midget who had absolutely no interest in even trying to play defense with a couple of players who actually know how to play D and want to do it has little to do with our defensive improvement?
We should probably add this term to the Scoop banned words list.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on December 15, 2018, 12:23:03 AM
Not going to speak for him and agree personnel plays a huge part, but we have definitely overhauled/simplified our defense. Packing it in more, switching ball screens instead of the high hedge.
Personnel allows them to switch more. Imagine Heldt on a scoring guard. Morrow and Theo can do it just well enough. But we're starting the defense lower than we have in years past for sure. That was an adjustment and one that seems to be paying off. We are forcing far less turnovers but the other 3 of the 4 factors have greatly improved.
I agree with this analysis. The scheme change has been quite beneficial as has the complexion of the chosen lineup - not playing two
midgets small people together.
The defensive improvement has been greater than I anticipated, so tip of the cap to Wojo and staff. Good to be able to win some games when we don't have to have an A-game offensively.
Quote from: tower912 on December 16, 2018, 09:24:07 AM
Well, he IS 19 now.
Do we think this might be the cause of his somewhat lower shooting numbers? We know that we all slow down as we age...
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 16, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
We should probably add this term to the Scoop banned words list.
I agree with this analysis. The scheme change has been quite beneficial as has the complexion of the chosen lineup - not playing two midgets small people together.
The defensive improvement has been greater than I anticipated, so tip of the cap to Wojo and staff. Good to be able to win some games when we don't have to have an A-game offensively.
I'm a midget but am not offended by the use of that term.
All it takes is one person to claim status to settle the permissible use, right?
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 16, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
The defensive improvement has been greater than I anticipated, so tip of the cap to Wojo and staff. Good to be able to win some games when we don't have to have an A-game offensively.
Nice to have you on the record about this. Seriously, Ners, it's good for any of us to admit that he or she might occasionally be wrong. I definitely include myself.
Of course, it's a long season, and there's nothing wrong with saying "We'll see." I tend to be more optimistic even when saying that. I'm saying, "We'll see ... and I think we will be happy with what we see!"
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on December 16, 2018, 10:09:26 AM
I'm a midget but am not offended by the use of that term.
All it takes is one person to claim status to settle the permissible use, right?
All about the Golden Rule Ziggy. If I asked this of someone, how would I want them to respond?
Quote from: MU82 on December 16, 2018, 11:17:24 AM
Nice to have you on the record about this. Seriously, Ners, it's good for any of us to admit that he or she might occasionally be wrong. I definitely include myself.
Of course, it's a long season, and there's nothing wrong with saying "We'll see." I tend to be more optimistic even when saying that. I'm saying, "We'll see ... and I think we will be happy with what we see!"
I'll say this much: After Wojo's coaching performance turned in Year 1 and 2, I thought he didn't stand a chance to be effective/solid. He showed some* improvement Years 3 and arguably 4, but he lost me totally last season after the @Creighton game when Markus got hurt, and we played 1-small and zone, and ultimately never gave that approach a real* chance thereafter.
The Indiana defeat was tough to swallow as it looked like same sh$t different year. We gutted out tough wins against Louisville and Wisconsin, and did so in ways we haven't shown the ability to win games under Wojo historically. So, there are some encouraging signs. I'm still not sold that he'll be a difference-maker as a coach as was Buzz, but if we can be a Top 20-30 program, I'll be happy with that on a consistent basis.
Lastly, I watch some episodes of Inside Marquette basketball, and there are times I do find myself thinking Wojo certainly seems to be "real," "sincere," and "likable." His post-game presser after last year's loss to Providence though where he went off on the student, was not his finest moment - and also colored my "dislike" for him last season.
Hopefully this will be the breakthrough year that those of you who have preached patience will be rewarded - and those of us who have been highly critical will have to tip our cap and say we were wrong. And I will if we can at least win an NCAA tournament game this year.
Quote from: Floorslapper on December 16, 2018, 05:28:24 PM
I'll say this much: After Wojo's coaching performance turned in Year 1 and 2, I thought he didn't stand a chance to be effective/solid. He showed some* improvement Years 3 and arguably 4, but he lost me totally last season after the @Creighton game when Markus got hurt, and we played 1-small and zone, and ultimately never gave that approach a real* chance thereafter.
The Indiana defeat was tough to swallow as it looked like same sh$t different year. We gutted out tough wins against Louisville and Wisconsin, and did so in ways we haven't shown the ability to win games under Wojo historically. So, there are some encouraging signs. I'm still not sold that he'll be a difference-maker as a coach as was Buzz, but if we can be a Top 20-30 program, I'll be happy with that on a consistent basis.
Lastly, I watch some episodes of Inside Marquette basketball, and there are times I do find myself thinking Wojo certainly seems to be "real," "sincere," and "likable." His post-game presser after last year's loss to Providence though where he went off on the student, was not his finest moment - and also colored my "dislike" for him last season.
Hopefully this will be the breakthrough year that those of you who have preached patience will be rewarded - and those of us who have been highly critical will have to tip our cap and say we were wrong. And I will if we can at least win an NCAA tournament game this year.
If you remember correctly, I criticized Wojo for his comportment at the press conference, too, not that he gives a rat's rump what either of us thinks.
We're better this season. More talented players, better scheme, better coaching. I expected nothing less.
I still can't shake the idea that some Scoopers are actually rooting for us to fail because they so love to say, "I told you so." Here's hoping you're not one of them, and I'll be looking for at least 2 or 3 cap-tippings from you.
I don't think there are a lot who actually want Wojo to fail. I think there are a fair number who have made up their minds he won't succeed, have said so publicly, and now must cling to that rather than be proven wrong.
I think that people prematurely saw the writing on the wall that Wojo was ultimately not the guy to get MU back to the promised land. Because of this, failure (quick and miserable failure) was better than prolonged mediocrity that would lead to indecision on the part of the President and Board of Trustees to fire Wojo. If this season goes well, the doubters will see the light and get on board. No one truly wants Wojo to fail.
Quote from: tower912 on December 17, 2018, 07:03:10 AM
I don't think there are a lot who actually want Wojo to fail. I think there are a fair number who have made up their minds he won't succeed, have said so publicly, and now must cling to that rather than be proven wrong.
Or maybe people are sick of wandering in the desert the last 4 years and got vocal.
I see more people worried about those 'wishing Wojo would fail' or 'ironically calling out the naysayers' than those who actually softened their perspective after a few very well coached & executed games. The board has been very balanced and complimentary on average after the wins...because people want the team to win (shocking)
I don't think wandering in the desert is a good description of the last four years. It's been a slow but steady rebuild.
Quote from: TinyTimsLittleBrother on December 17, 2018, 08:14:01 AM
I don't think wandering in the desert is a good description of the last four years. It's been a slow but steady rebuild.
This. We've averaged 20wins and .500 in conference. Not good or expectations as a program but certainly better than wandering the desert like say 83-92.
Quote from: TinyTimsLittleBrother on December 17, 2018, 08:14:01 AM
I don't think wandering in the desert is a good description of the last four years. It's been a slow but steady rebuild.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 17, 2018, 08:22:02 AM
This. We've averaged 20wins and .500 in conference. Not good or expectations as a program but certainly better than wandering the desert like say 83-92.
Maybe - if you lived through both you could come to a different perspective. But it completely misses my point as I wasn't speaking about those that are positive and feel this rebuild has been great all along.
Quote from: tower912 on December 17, 2018, 07:03:10 AM
I don't think there are a lot who actually want Wojo to fail. I think there are a fair number who have made up their minds he won't succeed, have said so publicly, and now must cling to that rather than be proven wrong.
That's fair. I'm an optimist myself, so I should give most folks the benefit of the doubt, as you have here. Well done as usual, tower.
This rebuild hasn't been great all along. Like most, it has been awkward and uneven and non-linear and frustrating. The eternal question is whether you can see reasons for optimism, evidence that there is a plan that will work. Some haven't seen enough to convince them. Others have seen enough to not despair. Still others have seen enough to advocate blowing it up and starting another rebuild.
Or, like most rebuilds featuring a brand new philosophy.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 17, 2018, 07:24:26 AM
Or maybe people are sick of wandering in the desert the last 4 years and got vocal.
I see more people worried about those 'wishing Wojo would fail' or 'ironically calling out the naysayers' than those who actually softened their perspective after a few very well coached & executed games. The board has been very balanced and complimentary on average after the wins...because people want the team to win (shocking)
Most of the complainers were not just becoming vocal after 4 years.
And I'm 100% certain some here would rather see Wojo fail than admit they were wrong.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 16, 2018, 05:05:44 PM
All about the Golden Rule Ziggy. If I asked this of someone, how would I want them to respond?
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/joke-over-head-gif-10.gif)
Quote from: wadesworld on December 17, 2018, 12:18:36 PM
And I'm 100% certain some here would rather see Wojo fail than admit they were wrong.
I'm 80% certain this is wrong.
And 100% certain that it's foolish to be 100% certain either way.