MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PaintTouches on December 14, 2018, 01:43:38 PM
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Howard's statline against UW was rough, literally one of the worst high volume performances in recent cbb history. And yet, looking at a lot of fancy numbers, I think Markus' heavy usage approach this season is not only appropriate, it's necessary for Marquette to contend for the BEast title. Here's 2,500 words to back that up.
https://painttouches.com/2018/12/14/howards-delicate-dance-of-volume-vs-efficiency/ (https://painttouches.com/2018/12/14/howards-delicate-dance-of-volume-vs-efficiency/)
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Good, interesting read. Thanks for this
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No. He needs to make more.
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He needs to shoot less only if the other guys get more aggressive.
Thing that stands out to me as a negative are some decisions he makes to shoot over bigger guys on the drive to the hoop.
Stay aggressive Markus.
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I'm willing to bet that the coaches against UW just said "keep shooting" during every timeout. Clearly he can shoot and score at a high level, and the last thing he needs to be doing is second-guessing himself, or forcing passes just because his last few shots didn't go down. Let him go 7-for-29 or you'll never get 17-for-29.
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I don't mind when he tries to create something at the end of a possession, but it drives me crazy when he takes a highly contested low percentage shot with 22 seconds left on the shot clock.
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Well written. I'm confident that Markus is analyzing his game with the assistance of his coaches. He wants to win more than anything else. It has never been about 'him'. He'll do whatever is in his power to maximize MU's shot at victory. And he'll continue to refine his game to achieve that.
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Well written. I'm confident that Markus is analyzing his game with the assistance of his coaches. He wants to win more than anything else. It has never been about 'him'. He'll do whatever is in his power to maximize MU's shot at victory. And he'll continue to refine his game to achieve that.
I would definitely say that Sam wants to win more than anything else.
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I loved Markus approach to the game. I want him to come out looking for shots every game, because the majority of time he will go 20-29 and we will win.
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I rewatched the game earlier in the week, and found that most of his misses were the types of shots that he usually makes at a much higher clip--he just was off a little. Sure, there were a few bad shots early in the possession, but many were actually pretty good looks (or at least one or two late possession shots that he just had to try and create something). After rewatching, I was less concerned about his overall volume, because I think he just had an off-shooting night.
I do think his defensive effort has ramped up (and especially on Trice), so his timing on the offensive end has not been quite as crisp as in other years.
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Yes, he shoots too much.
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I don't mind when he tries to create something at the end of a possession, but it drives me crazy when he takes a highly contested low percentage shot with 22 seconds left on the shot clock.
Agree 100%. Early in a possession before touches by others, not necessarily paint touches, drives me nuts. If he bails us out at the end, or takes a bad shot at the end after a bit of ball movement and a touch by Sam, I can accept that. Even the last shot in the Badger game at the end of regulation was fine, it was within what we were trying to do. It's not about number, but situation
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Markus is a leader who makes a huge difference by shooting or playmaking. We should all appreciate him while he is a warrior. He is a winner.
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Great article. Thanks for posting.
Agree that Markus is doing what's needed to give MU the best chance too win. He's gonna have off nights. But if this team is going to reach its full potential, everybody else needs to step up. Theo and Ed are turning the ball over way too often. I don't expect Bailey and Cain to shoot under 30% for the rest of the season. Sacar can play a bigger role in the offense. And Chartouny needs to settle in.
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What would have helped reduce some stress on Markus would have been Anim filling his role as slasher. JC tried 2-3 times and got to the hoop before missing. But we really need someone to step up as a slasher like Vander showed up his JR year.
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I don't mind when he tries to create something at the end of a possession, but it drives me crazy when he takes a highly contested low percentage shot with 22 seconds left on the shot clock.
This.
Except I doubt he takes as many of those as you think.
A couple/few times a game, he reminds me of what Rowsey used to do sometimes -- fire up some extremely low-percentage shot "just because" -- but Markus isn't as good at it as Rowsey was. Markus also is not gifted with great court vision when it comes to finding open teammates.
But Markus is very good at what he does, and as Andrei said, nobody was beyotching about it when he was scoring 45 against K-State.
Shooters gotta shoot.
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Interesting piece and thread. I think how (Wojo gets) Markus (to) self-regulate(s) will determine our ceiling this season. I'd argue we beat UW in spite of Markus, rather than because of. If he plays a bit more within himself - realizes he's having a bit of an off night and looks the get the ball more to Joey, Sam or Sacar I think we'd have won that game by a dozen. Of course he normally makes a lot of the shots he took vs. UW, but there were even better looks available on many possessions. Even on his off nights, Markus is going to draw a lot of attention. If we can consistently exploit that, I think we can win a lot of games when Markus is far from his best.
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I am just reviewing the makeup of past successful Marquette teams. Teams with balanced scoring spread across four guys that can consistently drop 12+ point a game is what spelled success for Marquette the last 15+ years. If you get five scorers who can all put in 12+ points a game you probably have a final four team.
Teams like:
Wade Diener Novak Robert Jackson
Novak James, Mathews McNeil
James Mathews McNeil Hayward
Hayward Butler Cubby Maurice (these guys stepped up their senior year)
Mix and Buzz's teams of
Butler DJO Crowder Wilson Junior Davante, etc..
Just looking at MU past history of success, if you have an offense with Markus shoot first and then the rest I think this team will be at best 500 in the BEAST.
Defense won the Wisconsin game.
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Just looking at MU past history of success, if you have an offense with Markus shoot first and then the rest I think this team will be at best 500 in the BEAST.
Defense won the Wisconsin game.
Defense has won most of our games. Sam and Joey are both averaging double figures. Sacar, Theo, & Chartouny have all proven capable at times of being a fourth scorer. None of the teams you mentioned had 4 guys averaging 12+. The capability is there, and the defense gives us a little more room for error.
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Been some really good discussion. Agree completely that Markus needs to develop a bit of a better clock in his head. Early in the possession: can I get a good look that I have every expectation of making or is my look only 'okay' and do I need to see Joey/Sammy outside or Ed/Theo down low? Late in the possession: I need to get us a shot so we don't have an empty possession.
That last play in regulation was perfectly fine. And when nothing has worked and we're down to 8 on the shot clock, go for it.
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My complaint about Markus last year was that once he got the ball it was not going to go anywhere else. The Wisconsin game reminded me of last year.
Several years ago UConn won the Big East tournament and the NCAA tournament, because their guard (Walker?) went on a nine game roll where nobody could stop him. The way Markus played against Kansas St. reminded me of Walker. I think a hot Markus gives us the chance to beat any team. Markus needs to share the ball more when he is not on fire. Generally, Markus took good shots against Wisconsin, but he should of realized after his first drive he was not going score when he drove in against Happ and Ruevers.
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What would help Marcus’ percentages and all outside shooters percentages is if we can aggressively attack the rim. The last 4 games, we have started out attacking the rim, getting 8nside, feeding the post. We need more slashers like Sacar - can’t wait for Greg to get back. Then the outside shooters will have more open shots.
Love the aggressiveness on D. We will be fine.
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For Markus to take less shots, Joey and Sam need to figure out how to get open, or run a better offense to get them open. Secondly, MU needs to take advantage
of Theo or Ed down low, then movement on the outside to get the Hauser boys open shots. Until that happens, Markus might be the show all year. Sacar has to
be more aggressive as well as he can get his own shot.
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MU can run more sets for Joey/Sam...but Markus needs to find them as well. Against UW Sam literally had to grab Joey to calm him down as he was pissed at Markus for missing him and taking a tough shot during clutch time. I'm not convinced Markus will ever be a pg.
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Markus is a phenomenal shooter, which is why it's clear to me he's shooting way too much. 23 PPG on under 40% is ROUGH. 40% is not the percent of a marksman, that's the percent of a bricklayer. Supporters of him shooting all game at a 40% clip will be changing their tune once MU starts dropping more games including a couple to inferior teams due (exclusively) to poor shot selection.
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MU can run more sets for Joey/Sam...but Markus needs to find them as well. Against UW Sam literally had to grab Joey to calm him down as he was pissed at Markus for missing him and taking a tough shot during clutch time. I'm not convinced Markus will ever be a pg.
I don't think that's what Joey was mad at. He was supposed to set the screen for a pick and pop with Markus. Ed set the screen instead. I think it was a mistake on Ed's part, Markus didn't have a clean pass to Joey.
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One thing I'm surprised that wasn't mentioned in this article (which was great, btw, nice work) is that Markus' FG% and 3FG% dropped from his freshman year to sophomore year, and both stats are down again this year. He has also started shooting more, again with an increase from freshman year to sophomore year, and then another increase this year. So as he's shot more, he's been worse. And I think a lot of that has to do with shot selection.
I think it's true that he's an elite shooter, but his decision-making (basketball IQ?) is not elite right now. If he continues to take some of the shots he's been consistently taking this year, he's could finish the season with the stats of a very average shooter.
If Joe or Sam or Joey can consistently step up as our third option, then I think we'll see improvement from Markus' stats. If not, we may have a few more duds that could bite us in conference play.
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One thing I'm surprised that wasn't mentioned in this article (which was great, btw, nice work) is that Markus' FG% and 3FG% dropped from his freshman year to sophomore year, and both stats are down again this year. He has also started shooting more, again with an increase from freshman year to sophomore year, and then another increase this year. So as he's shot more, he's been worse. And I think a lot of that has to do with shot selection.
I think it's true that he's an elite shooter, but his decision-making (basketball IQ?) is not elite right now. If he continues to take some of the shots he's been consistently taking this year, he's could finish the season with the stats of a very average shooter.
If Joe or Sam or Joey can consistently step up as our third option, then I think we'll see improvement from Markus' stats. If not, we may have a few more duds that could bite us in conference play.
As he has become more and more the focal part of our offense, defenses have forced him to take more and more difficult shots. He often -- very often -- was not our first or even second option as a freshman. Now, the ball is in his hands and he is unquestionably the first option. So defenses key on him, and it's not at all surprising that his shooting percentage has gone down. Not only are the shots he takes more difficult, but he has to work so hard all game long that even when he does get an open look, fatigue might be at least a small factor when he misses those.
On a related subject ...
Some have voiced concerns with Markus taking less-than-optimal shots early in the clock, and I absolutely concur. There is no reason to force up a hand-in-the-face 3 with 20 seconds still on the clock.
However, I do like the fast-break 3s that he and, occasionally, Sam take. Those, and kick-outs from offensive boards, represent the best chances that great shooters will find themselves wide open from 3-point range. Ten years ago, the transition 3 was considered a horrible shot; now, it's pretty much accepted as sound offensive strategy. Especially so with an elite shooter pulling the trigger.
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I don't think that's what Joey was mad at. He was supposed to set the screen for a pick and pop with Markus. Ed set the screen instead. I think it was a mistake on Ed's part, Markus didn't have a clean pass to Joey.
Agreed. Markus was mad and gesturing toward Morrow on that play, as well. Credit for Markus for still getting a decent look on that play.
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As he has become more and more the focal part of our offense, defenses have forced him to take more and more difficult shots. He often -- very often -- was not our first or even second option as a freshman. Now, the ball is in his hands and he is unquestionably the first option. So defenses key on him, and it's not at all surprising that his shooting percentage has gone down. Not only are the shots he takes more difficult, but he has to work so hard all game long that even when he does get an open look, fatigue might be at least a small factor when he misses those.
I agree with all of this. But I think it all points to reasons why it would help us more if Markus started to be more selective with his shots. He is undoubtedly the top priority for every team's defensive scheme. So when he gets doubled or finds himself a little too deep into the paint without an open look, rather than taking the tough shots he's been intentionally forced into, he could look to pass.
If he can pass up 3-5 of those tough shots he's been in most games, and those become open looks or at least extend possessions, I see nothing but upside. Markus become more efficient, defenses have to be more honest, guys like Joey and Sam get more shots (likely open looks), etc. I see this as part of his progression as a PG that should be a focus for him in conference play. If Markus can improve his shot selection/decision making just a little, I think that could be the unlock our offense needs to be more balanced.
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I agree with all of this. But I think it all points to reasons why it would help us more if Markus started to be more selective with his shots. He is undoubtedly the top priority for every team's defensive scheme. So when he gets doubled or finds himself a little too deep into the paint without an open look, rather than taking the tough shots he's been intentionally forced into, he could look to pass.
If he can pass up 3-5 of those tough shots he's been in most games, and those become open looks or at least extend possessions, I see nothing but upside. Markus become more efficient, defenses have to be more honest, guys like Joey and Sam get more shots (likely open looks), etc. I see this as part of his progression as a PG that should be a focus for him in conference play. If Markus can improve his shot selection/decision making just a little, I think that could be the unlock our offense needs to be more balanced.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here.
Having said that, Markus simply might not have the court sense/vision to do this. Hopefully, he can develop it, but usually a guy either has it or doesn't have it by the time he gets to Markus' age and experience level.
I am encouraged that Rowsey got better as a PG as his last year unfolded; then again, Rowsey is several years older than Markus.
In the end, Markus is a net positive for our team, even if he never develops this skill. He always will be a shooter, and shooters gotta shoot, so we just might have to live with everything that entails. I know I sure as heck am happy Markus is a Warrior, even if there are occasional frustrations watching him. There probably isn't a single college hoopster who doesn't occasionally frustrate his fans.
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Wrong question.....
Not....Does Markus shoot too much?
Does Markus "force" his shot too much????
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I agree with pretty much everything you say here.
Having said that, Markus simply might not have the court sense/vision to do this. Hopefully, he can develop it, but usually a guy either has it or doesn't have it by the time he gets to Markus' age and experience level.
I am encouraged that Rowsey got better as a PG as his last year unfolded; then again, Rowsey is several years older than Markus.
In the end, Markus is a net positive for our team, even if he never develops this skill. He always will be a shooter, and shooters gotta shoot, so we just might have to live with everything that entails. I know I sure as heck am happy Markus is a Warrior, even if there are occasional frustrations watching him. There probably isn't a single college hoopster who doesn't occasionally frustrate his fans.
And to me, this all comes back to what Chartouny's role can be as the year progresses. If he and Markus can have a more even split at the 1, then Markus gets to play his natural role more often, everyone's FG% goes up, and we get better offensively. If this happens, and we can sustain our current defensive output, then I think we're a strong contender for a Big East title this year.
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And to me, this all comes back to what Chartouny's role can be as the year progresses. If he and Markus can have a more even split at the 1, then Markus gets to play his natural role more often, everyone's FG% goes up, and we get better offensively. If this happens, and we can sustain our current defensive output, then I think we're a strong contender for a Big East title this year.
Agreed. As we are currently built, I don't think Markus is shooting too much. He could improve his shot quality but I think we want him creating and shooting as much as possible. Joey is really the only other player who can go get a shot. Sam and Sacar can if given the correct mismatch.
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Lots of the time when he beats his initial defender he's got to be a more willing passer when help comes or starts to come. My mild annoyance with him is not the shots he takes as much as it is the open shots that are available elsewhere that we don't get because he shoots or doesn't look for them. OTOH, some of his turnovers come when he does try to pass after beating the initial defender, so maybe he just has to get better at making that pass. Usually that turnover pass comes when he's well into the teeth of the defense. Needs to look sooner as the defense begins their rotation. 2-4 more times against Wisconsin would've done it for me.
I don't like the threes unless they're open and in rhythm with more than 20 seconds on the shot clock, too, but that is usually only a couple times a game at most.
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I agree with pretty much everything you say here.
Markus simply might not have the court sense/vision to do this. Hopefully, he can develop it, but usually a guy either has it or doesn't have it by the time he gets to Markus' age and experience level.
Yup, the ripe old age of 19. I mean, doubtful he'll develop ANY more :)
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Lots of the time when he beats his initial defender he's got to be a more willing passer when help comes or starts to come. My mild annoyance with him is not the shots he takes as much as it is the open shots that are available elsewhere that we don't get because he shoots or doesn't look for them. OTOH, some of his turnovers come when he does try to pass after beating the initial defender, so maybe he just has to get better at making that pass. Usually that turnover pass comes when he's well into the teeth of the defense. Needs to look sooner as the defense begins their rotation. 2-4 more times against Wisconsin would've done it for me.
One of my favorite plays in the Wisconsin game was when Markus drove deep into the lane, stopped when the help defender came up on him, and then pivoted and passed back out to Sam flashing to the top of the key, who splashed a three. Would love to see more of that.
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Some have voiced concerns with Markus taking less-than-optimal shots early in the clock, and I absolutely concur. There is no reason to force up a hand-in-the-face 3 with 20 seconds still on the clock.
Because I'm a giant nerd I went through all of Markus' 3Pt misses this year to try and see how many qualified under these conditions (half Court/20+ seconds on clock/Off Dribble).
Of the 61 total misses that were meant to be 3s (3 of them had a foot on the line), 10 would fall into this category. If he cut them out his 3pt% would move up to about 38.5%.
However, while I agree these are suboptimal shots, 3 of them were wide open, so I think he's fine taking any shot any time he's wide open. Still, I am in complete agreement with everyone here who says he shouldn't be taking these types of shots when he's closely guarded, and seeing as it's less than a shot a game, wouldn't affect his usage much, if at all.
If you wanted to make sure at least half the clock was taken up, these quick (15+ seconds left), closely guarded, off the dribble 3s make up 13 of his 61 misses. To Markus' credit, he's only taken 3 or more of this type of shot in a single game once, against KU (and 2 came as heat checks in the first half).
Long story short, Markus is doing a decent job limiting awful shots, but does have a little bit of room to improve.