MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MomofMUltiples on November 23, 2018, 01:43:24 PM
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Wisconsin only scored 18 points in its first half against #5 Virginia. Clearly this program is trash and garbage and will never be good again so WI should just fire Gard now and let the players coach themselves for the rest of the season.
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Wisconsin only scored 18 points in its first half against #5 Virginia. Clearly this program is trash and garbage and will never be good again so WI should just fire Gard now and let the players coach themselves for the rest of the season.
Aargh stop embarrassing me mom!!
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They dont even belong on the same court.
Even if they come back and win, 20 bad minutes proves that.
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Aargh stop embarrassing me mom!!
She's a mom. It's her job to embarrass you.
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But don’t you know? Gard is kicking Wojo’s ass. I mean the guy has been to 2 S16s!
And all the chicken littles will see that UVA won by 6 and say UW looks amazing to stay in the game all game long, when in reality anybody with a bit of basketball knowledge understands UVA’s 6 point lead is like a 20 point Kansas/Duke lead.
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Gard is a fantastic coach. Wisconsin defense is always one of the top in the country. I would love to see what Gard would do with our team.
Oh I'm not watching the game. Did wisconsin not score in 10 minutes? Did Virginia go on a 22-0 run? Did they get blown out from the start against an inexperienced team with injury issues that wasn't ranked?
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Wisconsin only scored 18 points in its first half against #5 Virginia. Clearly this program is trash and garbage and will never be good again so WI should just fire Gard now and let the players coach themselves for the rest of the season.
Snooze. Wake me up when Wojo coaches a team to a Sweet 16, much less a National Title.
Until then, please stop suggesting Wojo is anywhere near the caliber of Jay Wright, Buzz Williams, or hell even Greg Gard - it's an insult to all with a shred of objectivity.
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Snooze. Wake me up when Wojo coaches a team to a Sweet 16, much less a National Title.
Until then, please stop suggesting Wojo is anywhere near the caliber of Jay Wright, Buzz Williams, or hell even Greg Gard - it's an insult to all with a shred of objectivity.
Let me know when Greg Gard isn’t handed over Nigel Hayes and Bronson Koenig. I know I know. It’s no Magic Johnson like Wojo had. But anyone claiming Gard is to thank for Wisconsin’s S16s doesn’t have a shred of objectivity.
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Strawman
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What was Brad Davison doing deflecting that pass with two seconds to go? Fake hustle, indeed.
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Losing to a top 5 team on a neutral court is unacceptable.
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Losing to a top 5 team on a neutral court is unacceptable.
Especially one that lost to a 16 seed in the NCAA tournament.
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Gonna be interesting to see what happens without Happ. Everything they do revolves around him.
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And all the chicken littles will see that UVA won by 6 and say UW looks amazing to stay in the game all game long, when in reality anybody with a bit of basketball knowledge understands UVA’s 6 point lead is like a 20 point Kansas/Duke lead.
Anybody with a bit of basketball knowledge understands that a UVA 6 point lead = a Kansas or Duke 20 point lead? Really? I think that's insane. Willing to bet that in the last 10 or 5 years UVA has blown more 6 point leads than KU or Duke have blown 20 point leads. Yes, UVA plays slower - but why do you insist on saying stupid things?
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Anybody with a bit of basketball knowledge understands that a UVA 6 point lead = a Kansas or Duke 20 point lead? Really? I think that's insane. Willing to bet that in the last 10 or 5 years UVA has blown more 6 point leads than KU or Duke have blown 20 point leads. Yes, UVA plays slower - but why do you insist on saying stupid things?
Do some research and let me know.
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Do some research and let me know.
I'll try to over the weekend.
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Strawman
Yup.
The kool-aid seems to affect reading comprehension.
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I'll try to over the weekend.
Sounds good.
Either way. MU up 12 at 1 point on the number 2 team in the country on a neutral court and loses by 9, largest deficit at 12 = were never in the game and don’t belong in the same gym.
UW trails the entire game on a neutral court to the number 5 team in the country, down by 15 at half, lose by 7 to a team that rarely ever blows anyone out = Greg Gard has his boys looking great and is kicking Wojo’s ass as a coach.
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Has it gotten so bad that we are comparing the badgers version of hank raymonds to our current coach? ...lol
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Has it gotten so bad that we are comparing the badgers version of hank raymonds to our current coach? ...lol
It’s gotten to the point of maybe relaxing on writing off a season based on 2 of the first 5 games of the year. Basketball teams are inconsistent in November.
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Do some research and let me know.
UVA won by 7
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But don’t you know? Gard is kicking Wojo’s ass. I mean the guy has been to 2 S16s!
And all the chicken littles will see that UVA won by 6 and say UW looks amazing to stay in the game all game long, when in reality anybody with a bit of basketball knowledge understands UVA’s 6 point lead is like a 20 point Kansas/Duke lead.
This isn't even close to being correct
Using KenPom 2019 Numbers:
Possessions/10 min against UVA: 15.8
Possessions/10 min against Duke: 18.2
Points/Pos against UVA (def eff.): .872
Points/Pos against Duke (def eff): .909
10 Min point expectation vs UVA: 13.7
10 min point expectation vs Duke: 16.5
With 10 minutes to go a 6 point UVA lead is like 8.8 point Duke lead.
Duke's worst defense since 2010 gave up ~ 1.0 points/possession. Even against that Duke team a 6 point lead with 10 to go is only a 10.4 point Duke lead.
With 5 minutes to go this falls to 6:7.4 and 6:8.2
It's no where close to 20 points.
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Gard is a fantastic coach. Wisconsin defense is always one of the top in the country. I would love to see what Gard would do with our team.
Oh I'm not watching the game. Did wisconsin not score in 10 minutes? Did Virginia go on a 22-0 run? Did they get blown out from the start against an inexperienced team with injury issues that wasn't ranked?
Not true
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Snooze. Wake me up when Wojo coaches a team to a Sweet 16, much less a National Title.
Until then, please stop suggesting Wojo is anywhere near the caliber of Jay Wright, Buzz Williams, or hell even Greg Gard - it's an insult to all with a shred of objectivity.
The more you post the more you get exposed
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Not true
If you would take off your blue and gold glasses or get over your hatred for anything badgers, you would realize that he is a very good coach. His ability to get his teams to defend year in and year out at a high level without fouling is top notch. Good thing he can't recruit worth a lick.
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If you would take off your blue and gold glasses or get over your hatred for anything badgers, you would realize that he is a very good coach. His ability to get his teams to defend year in and year out at a high level without fouling is top notch. Good thing he can't recruit worth a lick.
Who cares?
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If you would take off your blue and gold glasses or get over your hatred for anything badgers, you would realize that he is a very good coach. His ability to get his teams to defend year in and year out at a high level without fouling is top notch. Good thing he can't recruit worth a lick.
Wisconsin was 66th in defense last year.
We're 57th this year and our fans say we suck.
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If you would take off your blue and gold glasses or get over your hatred for anything badgers, you would realize that he is a very good coach. His ability to get his teams to defend year in and year out at a high level without fouling is top notch. Good thing he can't recruit worth a lick.
Nothing to do with my glasses if he was a very good coach why has he not been able to kick Wojo's butt??
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Nothing to do with my glasses if he was a very good coach why has he not been able to kick Wojo's butt??
Careful, don't jinx us with that crap!
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I think it's too early to say Gard is amazing or Gard sucs at this point. Did well with Bo's players, did poor in first year without them, though understandable with two key injuries. This season the win at Xavier was impressive. Beating Stanford and Oklahoma is not. Losing to Virginia is more than acceptable. 3 of their next 4 (NCST, @IOWA, @MU) will tell us a lot more about them.
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Wisconsin was 66th in defense last year.
We're 57th this year and our fans say we suck.
No we aren't. Pomeroy's offensive and defensive efficiency numbers won't be fully accurate until mid-January. Right now those are mostly projections based on past performance and roster makeup. Honestly, we're probably better than that (but far worse than 22nd in offensive efficiency).
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Do some research and let me know.
I only went back 2 years and this is simple arithmetic, not true statistical analysis but here is what I found:
Virginia lost 14 games in the past two years. In 9 of those games they lost leads of 6 points or more. They led in all 14 games and their largest leads were: 2,3,3,3,4,6,7,8,9,9,10,12,13 and 14.
Average lead lost: 7.4 points
Kansas and Duke lost a combined 30 games the past 2 years. In none of those games did either team have a 20 point lead. The largest leads were:
0,0,0,1,1,1,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,9,9,9,10,10,10,11,12,12,12,13,14,15.
Average lead lost: 6.6 points
My gut still tells me that given the difference in tempo that a 6 point lead in a game involving UVA is slightly larger than a 6 point lead in a game involving Kansas or Duke, but 6 to 20 is considerably off.
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Wisconsin only scored 18 points in its first half against #5 Virginia. Clearly this program is trash and garbage and will never be good again so WI should just fire Gard now and let the players coach themselves for the rest of the season.
your posts...along with wade's...are just as ignorant as anyone who is only looking at a handful of games when calling for wojo to be fired. we can certainly talk about who inherited what...but at some point (4-5 years) you have achievement levels that need to be met. so while you want to act like it's a handful of games and knee-jerk reactions from fans...here is what the rest of the world is looking at. the vast majority on this thread have already stated wojo should keep his job if MU makes the NCAA tourney. do you have a problem with that?
WOJO
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Marquette Golden Eagles (Big East Conference) (2014–present)
2014–15 Marquette 13–19 4–14 T–9th
2015–16 Marquette 20–13 8–10 7th
2016–17 Marquette 19–13 10–8 T–3rd NCAA Division I First Round
2017–18 Marquette 21–14 9–9 T–6th NIT Quarterfinal
2018–19 Marquette 4–2 0–0
Marquette: 77–61 (.558) 31–41 (.431)
Total: 77–61 (.558)
GARD
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Wisconsin Badgers (Big Ten Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Wisconsin 15–8 12–6 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2016–17 Wisconsin 27–10 12–6 T–2nd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2017–18 Wisconsin 15–18 7–11 9th
2018–19 Wisconsin 5–1 0–0
Wisconsin: 62–37 (.626) 31–23 (.574)
Total: 62–37 (.626)
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your posts...along with wade's...are just as ignorant as anyone who is only looking at a handful of games when calling for wojo to be fired. we can certainly talk about who inherited what...but at some point (4-5 years) you have achievement levels that need to be met. so while you want to act like it's a handful of games and knee-jerk reactions from fans...here is what the rest of the world is looking at. the vast majority on this thread have already stated wojo should keep his job if MU makes the NCAA tourney. do you have a problem with that?
WOJO
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Marquette Golden Eagles (Big East Conference) (2014–present)
2014–15 Marquette 13–19 4–14 T–9th
2015–16 Marquette 20–13 8–10 7th
2016–17 Marquette 19–13 10–8 T–3rd NCAA Division I First Round
2017–18 Marquette 21–14 9–9 T–6th NIT Quarterfinal
2018–19 Marquette 4–2 0–0
Marquette: 77–61 (.558) 31–41 (.431)
Total: 77–61 (.558)
GARD
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Wisconsin Badgers (Big Ten Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Wisconsin 15–8 12–6 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2016–17 Wisconsin 27–10 12–6 T–2nd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2017–18 Wisconsin 15–18 7–11 9th
2018–19 Wisconsin 5–1 0–0
Wisconsin: 62–37 (.626) 31–23 (.574)
Total: 62–37 (.626)
Very well said. Sadly, the above IS the reality. And WI is ranked 12 in Pomeroy this year.
I do find it incredibly funny that Wojo's biggest fans here said he was handicapped his first few years because he "didn't have all his guys," yet for Gard it's because he had all Bo Ryan's players he was successful.
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your posts...along with wade's...are just as ignorant as anyone who is only looking at a handful of games when calling for wojo to be fired. we can certainly talk about who inherited what...but at some point (4-5 years) you have achievement levels that need to be met. so while you want to act like it's a handful of games and knee-jerk reactions from fans...here is what the rest of the world is looking at. the vast majority on this thread have already stated wojo should keep his job if MU makes the NCAA tourney. do you have a problem with that?
WOJO
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Marquette Golden Eagles (Big East Conference) (2014–present)
2014–15 Marquette 13–19 4–14 T–9th
2015–16 Marquette 20–13 8–10 7th
2016–17 Marquette 19–13 10–8 T–3rd NCAA Division I First Round
2017–18 Marquette 21–14 9–9 T–6th NIT Quarterfinal
2018–19 Marquette 4–2 0–0
Marquette: 77–61 (.558) 31–41 (.431)
Total: 77–61 (.558)
GARD
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Wisconsin Badgers (Big Ten Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Wisconsin 15–8 12–6 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2016–17 Wisconsin 27–10 12–6 T–2nd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2017–18 Wisconsin 15–18 7–11 9th
2018–19 Wisconsin 5–1 0–0
Wisconsin: 62–37 (.626) 31–23 (.574)
Total: 62–37 (.626)
It's crazy to think how razor thin the BE has been that we were one game out from third last year and I believe one game out from 5th(?) three years ago. I honestly think that's why wojos seat isn't hot yet. Results have been underwhelming but it's quite literally a couple inches or seconds from being ice cold.
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Very well said. Sadly, the above IS the reality. And WI is ranked 12 in Pomeroy this year.
I do find it incredibly funny that Wojo's biggest fans here said he was handicapped his first few years because he "didn't have all his guys," yet for Gard it's because he had all Bo Ryan's players he was successful.
If Bazz's guys left behind were All Conference players he would've been just fine.
But hey, keep telling yourself that what Wojo was left with was comparable to what Gard was left behind. You certainly do have some kind of special basketball knowledge if that's the case!
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If Bazz's guys left behind were All Conference players he would've been just fine.
But hey, keep telling yourself that what Wojo was left with was comparable to what Gard was left behind. You certainly do have some kind of special basketball knowledge if that's the case!
An example presenting playing in the NBA of the talent Buzz left behind...
https://newsok.com/gallery/articleid/5615945
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An example presenting playing in the NBA of the talent Buzz left behind...
https://newsok.com/gallery/articleid/5615945
That Wojo had little to no chance to keep because of factors outside of anyone's control.
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If Bazz's guys left behind were All Conference players he would've been just fine.
But hey, keep telling yourself that what Wojo was left with was comparable to what Gard was left behind. You certainly do have some kind of special basketball knowledge if that's the case!
You amuse me (and a growing number of posters here daily Wades.) You should really take your schtick to the Dodds board. You and Dodds can riff new rationale and excuses as to why we've yet to be able to achieve anything of consequence under Steve.
Why haven't you responded to my question I've posed to you a number of times? Does MU make the Sweet 16 this year?
Afraid to go on record? Or, the real reason: Because you have zero confidence we will in Year 5 of Wonder Boy's regime (with 2 potential All Conference players)?
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That Wojo had little to no chance to keep because of factors outside of anyone's control.
Just to set this straight for once and for all: What Deonte told the media and told his friends privately at the time are two very different things.
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Just to set this straight for once and for all: What Deonte told the media and told his friends privately at the time are two very different things.
Yeah, I'm going to stand by my original statement.
I'm curious, is this you claiming that you are also friends with Deontes friends?
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Just to set this straight for once and for all: What Deonte told the media and told his friends privately at the time are two very different things.
What evidence do you have to set this straight?
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Good Lord, people! Can nobody (except Tower and Chick) detect sarcasm without Teal around here?
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You amuse me (and a growing number of posters here daily Wades.) You should really take your schtick to the Dodds board. You and Dodds can riff new rationale and excuses as to why we've yet to be able to achieve anything of consequence under Steve.
Why haven't you responded to my question I've posed to you a number of times? Does MU make the Sweet 16 this year?
Afraid to go on record? Or, the real reason: Because you have zero confidence we will in Year 5 of Wonder Boy's regime (with 2 potential All Conference players)?
So you genuinely believe that every coach in the country walks into equally difficult (or easy) situations? If Wojo was left with Hayes, Koenig, and Happ he would've missed the NIT, and if Gard was left with Juan and Derrick as his best upperclassmen he would've been in the S16.
Hysterical stuff Ners. Like I said, you definitely got some super secret knowledge from that Minoqua North coach of yours. Guy must be Stew Morrill level legendary.
Why don't I respond to whether MU makes the S16 this year? I already did. I wouldn't bet on Duke making the S16, let alone Marquette. I know you're all in on concluding seasons after 5 games, but I never stepped foot on a basketball court before so I don't know how to properly compare Magic Johnson and John Dawson. If I can't do that, I'm not sure how I could possibly project how far we dance in November.
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Who cares?
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Good Lord, people! Can nobody (except Tower and Chick) detect sarcasm without Teal around here?
I'm honored?
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Yeah, I'm going to stand by my original statement.
I'm curious, is this you claiming that you are also friends with Deontes friends?
Yes.
What evidence do you have to set this straight?
I have it in writing.
Deonte is pure class. He wasn't going to publicly throw Wojo under the bus. Most kids don't when they transfer out.
Deonte had major expectations going into his sophomore year, and thought he was going to be a focal point.
Wojo never started the kid. NEVER. Deonte was clearly the most talented/best player on that team. Funny, Paul George thinks Deonte is very talented. And to some of the Elitist Intelligencia here who laughed at the notion of Deonte playing in the NBA...yet another Ners prediction that came true.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/24/oklahoma-city-thunder-paul-george-deonte-burton-talented-two-way-contract/
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Yes.
I have it in writing.
Deonte is pure class. He wasn't going to publicly throw Wojo under the bus. Most kids don't when they transfer out.
Deonte had major expectations going into his sophomore year, and thought he was going to be a focal point.
Wojo never started the kid. NEVER. Deonte was clearly the most talented/best player on that team. Funny, Paul George thinks Deonte is very talented. And to some of the Elitist Intelligencia here who laughed at the notion of Deonte playing in the NBA...yet another Ners prediction that came true.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/24/oklahoma-city-thunder-paul-george-deonte-burton-talented-two-way-contract/
Just remember that "NEVER" was a grand total of eight games.
As regarding your predictions, is Dirk still quaking in his high-tops at the thought of guarding Davonte Gardner? But seriously, a number of people said that he would get a good look by an NBA team but had to improve his shot to stick.
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Yes.
I have it in writing.
Deonte is pure class. He wasn't going to publicly throw Wojo under the bus. Most kids don't when they transfer out.
Deonte had major expectations going into his sophomore year, and thought he was going to be a focal point.
Wojo never started the kid. NEVER. Deonte was clearly the most talented/best player on that team. Funny, Paul George thinks Deonte is very talented. And to some of the Elitist Intelligencia here who laughed at the notion of Deonte playing in the NBA...yet another Ners prediction that came true.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/24/oklahoma-city-thunder-paul-george-deonte-burton-talented-two-way-contract/
Wait...what? I thought only Ners had set foot on a hardwood floor in his life?
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So you genuinely believe that every coach in the country walks into equally difficult (or easy) situations? If Wojo was left with Hayes, Koenig, and Happ he would've missed the NIT, and if Gard was left with Juan and Derrick as his best upperclassmen he would've been in the S16.
Why don't I respond to whether MU makes the S16 this year? I already did. I wouldn't bet on Duke making the S16, let alone Marquette. I know you're all in on concluding seasons after 5 games, but I never stepped foot on a basketball court before so I don't know how to properly compare Magic Johnson and John Dawson. If I can't do that, I'm not sure how I could possibly project how far we dance in November.
No one compared him to Gard other than the person that started this post...who then reference teal...after complaining about a poll I put up that asked what one felt Wojo had to accomplish this year to keep his job. Then suddenly we were entitled fans..blah blah blah.
So while one can debate what Wojo walked into at MU...one can also state their expectations given what they believe Wojo walked into. Given what I believe he walked into I would say one NCAA appearance with one year of finishing in the top half of the conference would be a minimum...which he hit. In years 5 and 6, given his lack of initial production (assuming the rationale is he's playing the long game) MU should safely make the NCAA tourney and be a top three program in the BEAST. If in 6 years we have three top 3 finishes in the BEAST, 3 NCAA appearances, and no off-court issues...then I'm okay with a down year here and there given we are also a routine top 25 team. Five games into the season, I'm not saying there is no way MU will make the tourney...but I do see areas that are concerning. So on a message board, it's probably fair for fans to discuss that...knowing full well that none of us are truly capable of evaluating Wojo beyond win/losses and how he represents MU. So feel free to state what your expectations are for Wojo rather than just providing rationale for why you feel he has achieved what he has thus far at MU.
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An example presenting playing in the NBA of the talent Buzz left behind...
https://newsok.com/gallery/articleid/5615945
I told Wojo at the time* that killing Deonte's mother would be a bad move and cause him to have to leave Milwaukee, but he just wouldn't listen.
*Just as trues as MUFINY and Ners pretend inside information
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I told Wojo at the time* that killing Deonte's mother would be a bad move and cause him to have to leave Milwaukee, but he just wouldn't listen.
I thought that was a recruiting violation...shhh we needs to keep this under wraps
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Yes.
21 Jump Street eh?
I am always amazed by how connected some Scoopers are. Well just as you advise us not take everything you heard at face value I would advise you to take your own advice. I'm sure Tim Maymon had some great stories about what Buzz was saying and doing during practice. Also keep in mind that Deonte has come out that he struggles with depression. A lot easier for a kid to tell his friends that he's mad about playing time then it is to admit that he's struggling with a mental illness. It's also possible for both to be true. In the grand scheme of things, I'm going to guess that mother's death and mental illness are a little more impactful.
All that being said, the original point still stands. Wojo had little to no chance of keeping Deonte, nor should he have kept him. From Deonte himself he said the move was the best thing for him.
EDIT: Wait a minute, I remember this now. Was the "Friend of Deonte" you mentioned that old scooper who claimed to be Dawson's uncle or something like that?
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21 Jump Street eh?
I am always amazed by how connected some Scoopers are. Well just as you advise us not take everything you heard at face value I would advise you to take your own advice. I'm sure Tim Maymon had some great stories about what Buzz was saying and doing during practice. Also keep in mind that Deonte has come out that he struggles with depression. A lot easier for a kid to tell his friends that he's mad about playing time then it is to admit that he's struggling with a mental illness. It's also possible for both to be true. In the grand scheme of things, I'm going to guess that mother's death and mental illness are a little more impactful.
All that being said, the original point still stands. Wojo had little to no chance of keeping Deonte, nor should he have kept him. From Deonte himself he said the move was the best thing for him.
EDIT: Wait a minute, I remember this now. Was the "Friend of Deonte" you mentioned that old scooper who claimed to be Dawson's uncle or something like that?
Isn't that Tex/mufny/Herman?
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21 Jump Street eh?
I am always amazed by how connected some Scoopers are. Well just as you advise us not take everything you heard at face value I would advise you to take your own advice. I'm sure Tim Maymon had some great stories about what Buzz was saying and doing during practice. Also keep in mind that Deonte has come out that he struggles with depression. A lot easier for a kid to tell his friends that he's mad about playing time then it is to admit that he's struggling with a mental illness. It's also possible for both to be true. In the grand scheme of things, I'm going to guess that mother's death and mental illness are a little more impactful.
All that being said, the original point still stands. Wojo had little to no chance of keeping Deonte, nor should he have kept him. From Deonte himself he said the move was the best thing for him.
EDIT: Wait a minute, I remember this now. Was the "Friend of Deonte" you mentioned that old scooper who claimed to be Dawson's uncle or something like that?
You do realize you act as if you are the most connected person on Scoop? You do realize some players and their families browse this board, correct? You do realize users can PM information here and share identities that then get verified outside of Scoop on social media sites, and dialogue continues?
To answer your question: There have been multiple posters here with direct ties/relationships with multiple players that I've developed friendships with over the past 8 years I've participated here.
End of the day, Wojo was an idiot for not making Deonte the focal point of his first squad at MU - most objective posters here would agree. It was the primary factor that caused him to transfer. Yet I understand in the eyes of you and Wojo's most patient supporters - Wojo makes NO mistakes - and therefore putting Deonte on the bench 23+ minutes ON AVERAGE had zero bearing on him leaving.
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You do realize you act as if you are the most connected person on Scoop? You do realize some players and their families browse this board, correct? You do realize users can PM information here and share identities that then get verified outside of Scoop on social media sites, and dialogue continues?
To answer your question: There have been multiple posters here with direct ties/relationships with multiple players that I've developed friendships with over the past 8 years I've participated here.
End of the day, Wojo was an idiot for not making Deonte the focal point of his first squad at MU - most objective posters here would agree. It was the primary factor that caused him to transfer. Yet I understand in the eyes of you and Wojo's most patient supporters - Wojo makes NO mistakes - and therefore putting Deonte on the bench 23+ minutes ON AVERAGE had zero bearing on him leaving.
The real thing is...I'm the most connected. #iamthesource
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You do realize you act as if you are the most connected person on Scoop? You do realize some players and their families browse this board, correct? You do realize users can PM information here and share identities that then get verified outside of Scoop on social media sites, and dialogue continues?
To answer your question: There have been multiple posters here with direct ties/relationships with multiple players that I've developed friendships with over the past 8 years I've participated here.
End of the day, Wojo was an idiot for not making Deonte the focal point of his first squad at MU - most objective posters here would agree. It was the primary factor that caused him to transfer. Yet I understand in the eyes of you and Wojo's most patient supporters - Wojo makes NO mistakes - and therefore putting Deonte on the bench 23+ minutes ON AVERAGE had zero bearing on him leaving.
Your ridiculous hyperbole undermines the majority of your arguments
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Your ridiculous hyperbole undermines the majority of your arguments
Well - Still waiting for Wades to utter just one critical statement regarding Wojo's performance. There's a handful of others in the shrinking faction, but at least shrinking.
Respect to Sultan, Brew and Tower for their objectivity and modifying their positions over the course of last year/this season.
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Just remember that "NEVER" was a grand total of eight games.
As regarding your predictions, is Dirk still quaking in his high-tops at the thought of guarding Davonte Gardner? But seriously, a number of people said that he would get a good look by an NBA team but had to improve his shot to stick.
Haha. Fair Sultan. Let's provide some context around that statement (just as I did the other day about Dawson - saying he made some Magic Johnson-esque passes - NOT that he would become Magic Dawson.)
With Davante, the topic was if he could make the NBA. It was put forth, he couldn't because who could he guard - such as a Dirk. I said fair, but Dirk couldn't handle him in the post either. (That aside I did think Davante had a chance to make the league - I was wrong.)
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You do realize you act as if you are the most connected person on Scoop? You do realize some players and their families browse this board, correct? You do realize users can PM information here and share identities that then get verified outside of Scoop on social media sites, and dialogue continues?
To answer your question: There have been multiple posters here with direct ties/relationships with multiple players that I've developed friendships with over the past 8 years I've participated here.
End of the day, Wojo was an idiot for not making Deonte the focal point of his first squad at MU - most objective posters here would agree. It was the primary factor that caused him to transfer. Yet I understand in the eyes of you and Wojo's most patient supporters - Wojo makes NO mistakes - and therefore putting Deonte on the bench 23+ minutes ON AVERAGE had zero bearing on him leaving.
So it was the old scooper claiming to be Dawson's uncle. I wasn't aware that I come off like I am connected, certainly not my intent. I have no connections. I am some bum who lives in Texas who loves Marquette basketball a little too much.
Who said Deonte coming off the bench had zero bearing on him leaving? I'm sure he wanted to play more, all players do, but I believe he would have left regardless. More importantly, it was the right thing for Deonte. While it sucks for the program the move seems like it really helped him.
I think Wojo makes tons of mistakes and I point them out when I notice them. I also expect mistakes so I tend to not lose it when they happen. You don't have to resort to calling Wojo an idiot. He's not. He's a lot smarter than either you or I when it comes to basketball. You also don't have to resort to hyperbole. You have good opinions, don't undermine them.
The funny thing is, if all you said was, Deonte needed more minutes I would agree (not knowing anything that was going on in practice and off the court).
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End of the day, Wojo was an idiot for not making Deonte the focal point of his first squad at MU - most objective posters here would agree. It was the primary factor that caused him to transfer. Yet I understand in the eyes of you and Wojo's most patient supporters - Wojo makes NO mistakes - and therefore putting Deonte on the bench 23+ minutes ON AVERAGE had zero bearing on him leaving.
I don't think most objective posters would agree. I think a small minority of non-objective posters like yourself would agree. You cornered yourself on the Burton/Dawson position early on and can no longer look at it objectively. Deonte was turning it over a ton and struggling mightily on defense. And as disastrous as that UNO game was, that bad team hung in with Michigan State and Wisconsin while Burton was still here.
I'm not saying Wojo never made mistakes, but the situation with Burton's mom led to his departure. He has said so repeatedly. It was what was best for the kid. That team wasn't going to the NCAAs with or without Burton. I get that Burton had flashes as a freshman for Buzz, but for Wojo in games against good teams, he was either bad on both ends or his offense wasn't good enough to offset his defense. He wasn't Rowsey.
And now that it's three years later and Burton's career is over, it's probably time to move on. We have more than enough concerns with the 2018-19 team. No need to belabor what wouldn't have been in 2014-15.
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And now that it's three years later and Burton's career is over, it's probably time to move on. We have more than enough concerns with the 2018-19 team. No need to belabor what wouldn't have been in 2014-15.
Annnnnnddddd, good luck with that.
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Ners does seem like the kind of guy that would slide into some "hot girl's" Instagram DMs and find himself in a sticky situation. Sounds like the Scoop equivalent of that has happened to him more than once.
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Maybe taking DDDawson and Nevada's words for it isn't the best idea. Given that they initially claimed we were all sleeping on an underrated future NBA player.
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I am very comfortable as a MU fan giving Gard a lifetime extension......
Just eliminated 70% of the recruits in Wisconsin.....
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Ners does seem like the kind of guy that would slide into some "hot girl's" Instagram DMs and find himself in a sticky situation. Sounds like the Scoop equivalent of that has happened to him more than once.
Gotta do something, ran out of females in attendance for the fabled rec center performances long ago.
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I don't think most objective posters would agree. I think a small minority of non-objective posters like yourself would agree. You cornered yourself on the Burton/Dawson position early on and can no longer look at it objectively. Deonte was turning it over a ton and struggling mightily on defense. And as disastrous as that UNO game was, that bad team hung in with Michigan State and Wisconsin while Burton was still here.
I'm not saying Wojo never made mistakes, but the situation with Burton's mom led to his departure. He has said so repeatedly. It was what was best for the kid. That team wasn't going to the NCAAs with or without Burton. I get that Burton had flashes as a freshman for Buzz, but for Wojo in games against good teams, he was either bad on both ends or his offense wasn't good enough to offset his defense. He wasn't Rowsey.
And now that it's three years later and Burton's career is over, it's probably time to move on. We have more than enough concerns with the 2018-19 team. No need to belabor what wouldn't have been in 2014-15.
Not too concerned about your take here Brew - after all you thought we'd be better off with Derrick Wilson at PG than Junior Cadougan.
So Burton is in the NBA and Dawson plays in the G-League. Yep. I definitely cornered myself early on suggesting those two could play.
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Not too concerned about your take here Brew - after all you thought we'd be better off with Derrick Wilson at PG than Junior Cadougan.
So Burton is in the NBA and Dawson plays in the G-League. Yep. I definitely cornered myself early on suggesting those two could play.
You know who else played in the G league? Derrick Wilson.
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Not too concerned about your take here Brew - after all you thought we'd be better off with Derrick Wilson at PG than Junior Cadougan.
So Burton is in the NBA and Dawson plays in the G-League. Yep. I definitely cornered myself early on suggesting those two could play.
You obviously did. Being objective means being able to look at things through a neutral lens and being able to reconsider your opinions based on new information. Despite new information about Burton's departure, you are still beating this same stupid drum 3 years later. Despite new information like seeing how Dawson was a below average player in one of the 10 worst leagues in the country during his two years there you are still arguing he should have been a contributor here despite two coaches clearly not seeing that in his play.
You mentioned me changing my opinion on Wojo. I'm still waiting before a final judgment, but I'm troubled by the trends I've seen continue into this year. I want to be right about him succeeding with this team, but am willing to accept the alternative. You, on the other hand, have no such ability to be objective. This continued discussion only proves it further.
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Deonte is pure class. He wasn't going to publicly throw Wojo under the bus. Most kids don't when they transfer out.
Deonte had major expectations going into his sophomore year, and thought he was going to be a focal point.
I've assumed this the whole time. I'm not sure this is necessarily proof of why he left, but it does make sense. Obviously there is a ton of PR at this level of basketball, and it's rare to hear the full story of why a kid or a coach leaves a program.
We know guys transfer in today's college game, but mid-season transfers are much more rare. If Wojo had lost 1 guy mid-season, I may buy the PR fluff that comes out when the decision is made. But he's lost 3 or 4 guys now, right? Maybe there have been several very unique events that led to a mid-season decision. But what seems more likely is that something was off about the way Wojo was dealing with these guys.
I'm surprised at the way many posters here openly accept the PR story when a player leaves but are so willing to question the story when Buzz left. Maybe it's just because we know more about what was going on with Buzz. Or maybe it's easier to assume an adult isn't telling the whole truth while not wanting to question the motivations of young men. Regardless, the same department is working with the same PR team to craft the messages about both coaches and players.
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Ners does seem like the kind of guy that would slide into some "hot girl's" Instagram DMs and find himself in a sticky situation. Sounds like the Scoop equivalent of that has happened to him more than once.
This is the kind of post that happens when one has been repeatedly owned here.
#respecttheprocess.
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You know who else played in the G league? Derrick Wilson.
Wrong. Drafted. Cut. Never played a minute.
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I've assumed this the whole time. I'm not sure this is necessarily proof of why he left, but it does make sense. Obviously there is a ton of PR at this level of basketball, and it's rare to hear the full story of why a kid or a coach leaves a program.
We know guys transfer in today's college game, but mid-season transfers are much more rare. If Wojo had lost 1 guy mid-season, I may buy the PR fluff that comes out when the decision is made. But he's lost 3 or 4 guys now, right? Maybe there have been several very unique events that led to a mid-season decision. But what seems more likely is that something was off about the way Wojo was dealing with these guys.
I'm surprised at the way many posters here openly accept the PR story when a player leaves but are so willing to question the story when Buzz left. Maybe it's just because we know more about what was going on with Buzz. Or maybe it's easier to assume an adult isn't telling the whole truth while not wanting to question the motivations of young men. Regardless, the same department is working with the same PR team to craft the messages about both coaches and players.
I tend to believe that the the reasons players leave are complex and not as simple as some would portray it. A lot of people who I trust more than Ners have said that the primary issue was him needed a fresh start after his mother died. If he started those eight games instead of coming off the bench, would he have stayed? I mean it may have helped, but I think it is very doubtful that he would have been here in the end.
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Wrong. Drafted. Cut. Never played a minute.
My mistake. I should have said "was on a G League roster"
Only you could find a way to validate your opinion because a player has averaged 4 points, 1.8 rebounds and 1 assist per game while shooting 38% from the field in 42 games in the G league.
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I tend to believe that the the reasons players leave are complex and not as simple as some would portray it. A lot of people who I trust more than Ners have said that the primary issue was him needed a fresh start after his mother died. If he started those eight games instead of coming off the bench, would he have stayed? I mean it may have helped, but I think it is very doubtful that he would have been here in the end.
It's very possible that Deonte's decision was primarily because of his mother's passing. But that only explains one of Wojo's 4 mid-season transfers, and that's the bigger concern to me. Maybe Deonte leaves due to a very legitimate non-basketball reason and then that plants a seed in the head of others, creating an ugly domino effect. Could be. I won't rule that out.
But then again, you know the old saying "where there's smoke, there's fire?" Could also very well be true here.
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It's very possible that Deonte's decision was primarily because of his mother's passing. But that only explains one of Wojo's 4 mid-season transfers, and that's the bigger concern to me. Maybe Deonte leaves due to a very legitimate non-basketball reason and then that plants a seed in the head of others, creating an ugly domino effect. Could be. I won't rule that out.
But then again, you know the old saying "where there's smoke, there's fire?" Could also very well be true here.
I've never really thought about the motivations of the other four because I don't think they were cut out for basketball at this level. They all transferred down.
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I've assumed this the whole time. I'm not sure this is necessarily proof of why he left, but it does make sense. Obviously there is a ton of PR at this level of basketball, and it's rare to hear the full story of why a kid or a coach leaves a program.
We know guys transfer in today's college game, but mid-season transfers are much more rare. If Wojo had lost 1 guy mid-season, I may buy the PR fluff that comes out when the decision is made. But he's lost 3 or 4 guys now, right? Maybe there have been several very unique events that led to a mid-season decision. But what seems more likely is that something was off about the way Wojo was dealing with these guys.
Despite the elitist Scoop Intelligencia trying to shout you down for voicing opposition to Boy Wonder, keep posting. You make many good points here. The Scoop Intelligencia wants you to believe:
1) Wojo is good coach who "just needs some time to grow into the role."
2) Wojo carries no responsibility for players leaving the program.
3) To #respecttheprocess
4) Wojo is handcuffed because he "doesn't have all his guys."
5) Wait until Wojo has "all his guys," then the magic Power Point results will manifest (even though we took a step back in Year 4 with all his guys.)
Deonte's Mom passed early October. He had a full month to decide to leave MU before the season started and subjecting himself to burning potential eligibility, by playing in games at MU 1st semester. Instead, he stuck around, only to find out Wojo didn't like him as a player and as a result burned a year of eligibility.
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It's very possible that Deonte's decision was primarily because of his mother's passing. But that only explains one of Wojo's 4 mid-season transfers, and that's the bigger concern to me. Maybe Deonte leaves due to a very legitimate non-basketball reason and then that plants a seed in the head of others, creating an ugly domino effect. Could be. I won't rule that out.
But then again, you know the old saying "where there's smoke, there's fire?" Could also very well be true here.
Very easy to figure out the others.
Haanif (decent player, family issues, transferred closer to home, was granted waiver to play right away at FGCU)
Sandy (Not good enough to play at the BE level)
Dawson (Not good enough to play at the BE level)
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Despite the elitist Scoop Intelligencia trying to shout you down for voicing opposition to Boy Wonder, keep posting. You make many good points here. The Scoop Intelligencia wants you to believe:
1) Wojo is good coach who "just needs some time to grow into the role."
2) Wojo carries no responsibility for players leaving the program.
3) To #respecttheprocess
4) Wojo is handcuffed because he "doesn't have all his guys."
5) Wait until Wojo has "all his guys," then the magic Power Point results will manifest (even though we took a step back in Year 4 with all his guys.)
Deonte's Mom passed early October. He had a full month to decide to leave MU before the season started and subjecting himself to burning potential eligibility, by playing in games at MU 1st semester. Instead, he stuck around, only to find out Wojo didn't like him as a player and as a result burned a year of eligibility.
The pen pal friends you made at MUScoop told you that, hey?
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I've never really thought about the motivations of the other four because I don't think they were cut out for basketball at this level. They all transferred down.
That does make it easier to understand, but I still get hung up on the fact that so many guys bailed during the season. The transfer by itself makes sense, but leaving 5 games in seems like a bigger statement. I could be reading too much into it, but it seems like a guy would leave between seasons if it was only about the level of play being too much to handle.
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That does make it easier to understand, but I still get hung up on the fact that so many guys bailed during the season. The transfer by itself makes sense, but leaving 5 games in seems like a bigger statement. I could be reading too much into it, but it seems like a guy would leave between seasons if it was only about the level of play being too much to handle.
I think it's more of players knowing that their minutes would go down, but not realizing by how much. With the seniors on the team in 16-17, I don't think Sandy was expecting to continue to get 20 mpg, but when you only get 11 in a 30 point blow out, and see that you will likely spend the rest of your career behind both Sam and Haani, it's easier to understand. Similar situation with Traci dropping from 20 mpg to 15, and seeing that he'd be behind Markus the rest of his career.
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The pen pal friends you made at MUScoop told you that, hey?
No. Just you and the handful of other misguided MUScoop posters who have taken a bow at the altar Wojo.
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Deonte's Mom passed early October. He had a full month to decide to leave MU before the season started and subjecting himself to burning potential eligibility, by playing in games at MU 1st semester. Instead, he stuck around, only to find out Wojo didn't like him as a player and as a result burned a year of eligibility.
So you believe that if he would have started those eight games everything would have been good?
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So you believe that if he would have started those eight games everything would have been good?
I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
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I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
The 2 MPG more he got in his first season at ISU made all the difference.
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I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
I think that's ridiculous.
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I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
Well there is the problem, you have a belief that is not true and are unwilling to change no matter what. You sir, are a major part of what is going on in our society today.
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I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
I have no doubt you gotta chill out
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I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
And that's why you can't be objective. "No doubt" about a complete hypothetical that has been disputed publicly by the player in question? That's just silly.
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I have no doubt Deonte would have stayed at MU if he started those 8 games and played major minutes.
Did you ever stop to think that Deonte's Mom dying right before the season:
1. Made him depressed
2. Which led to him not performing up to his ability in practice
3. Which lead to Wojo not playing him more
4. Which, at the time, Deonte identified the lack of playing time as his motivation for leaving
5. So that is what he told friends at the time
6. But after a fresh start, the passage of time, and some self reflection, Deonte can identify and talk about how his Mother's death was a huge challenge that set off a chain reaction of events, including his transfer.
After my son passed away, I felt numb to the world. It took me a long time to get back to normal. Maybe try showing some compassion and empathy for Deonte's journey rather than using his tragedy to constantly push your anti-Wojo agenda.
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Did you ever stop to think that Deonte's Mom dying right before the season:
1. Made him depressed
2. Which led to him not performing up to his ability in practice
3. Which lead to Wojo not playing him more
4. Which, at the time, Deonte identified the lack of playing time as his motivation for leaving
5. So that is what he told friends at the time
6. But after a fresh start, the passage of time, and some self reflection, Deonte can identify and talk about how his Mother's death was a huge challenge that set off a chain reaction of events, including his transfer.
After my son passed away, I felt numb to the world. It took me a long time to get back to normal. Maybe try showing some compassion and empathy for Deonte's journey rather than using his tragedy to constantly push your anti-Wojo agenda.
Yeah when he uses "he had a full month to decide to leave MU before the season started" as an excuse for why his mom's death wasn't a factor, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the human condition.
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And that's why you can't be objective. "No doubt" about a complete hypothetical that has been disputed publicly by the player in question? That's just silly.
You're talking about the guy that literally didn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion.
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Did you ever stop to think that Deonte's Mom dying right before the season:
1. Made him depressed
2. Which led to him not performing up to his ability in practice
3. Which lead to Wojo not playing him more
4. Which, at the time, Deonte identified the lack of playing time as his motivation for leaving
5. So that is what he told friends at the time
6. But after a fresh start, the passage of time, and some self reflection, Deonte can identify and talk about how his Mother's death was a huge challenge that set off a chain reaction of events, including his transfer.
After my son passed away, I felt numb to the world. It took me a long time to get back to normal. Maybe try showing some compassion and empathy for Deonte's journey rather than using his tragedy to constantly push your anti-Wojo agenda.
Sorry to hear about your son.
Yes. The argument you lay out above is plausible. It doesn't change the fact as to what the primary catalyst at the time of the transfer was: Playing time and role.
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You're talking about the guy that literally didn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Says the guy who feels compelled to needlessly insert the word "literally" into his posts.
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Something must be rotten in Madison too since they keep having mid-season transfers. Or just maybe some players learn after a few weeks of games that they are no longer going to get the minutes they crave.
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It doesn't change the fact as to what the primary catalyst at the time of the transfer was: Playing time and role.
Not really a fact. Also, he transferred four years ago.
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Says the guy who feels compelled to needlessly insert the word "literally" into his posts.
You fail to understand my use of the word literally here. One can say "he doesn't understand the difference between a fact and an opinion" to mean he thinks his opinions are like facts...you on the other hand, literally didn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion.
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You know who else played in the G league? Derrick Wilson.
Derrick was cut from the G League. He played in Denmark .
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Derrick-Wilson/Summary/30443
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Did you ever stop to think that Deonte's Mom dying right before the season:
1. Made him depressed
2. Which led to him not performing up to his ability in practice
3. Which lead to Wojo not playing him more
4. Which, at the time, Deonte identified the lack of playing time as his motivation for leaving
5. So that is what he told friends at the time
6. But after a fresh start, the passage of time, and some self reflection, Deonte can identify and talk about how his Mother's death was a huge challenge that set off a chain reaction of events, including his transfer.
After my son passed away, I felt numb to the world. It took me a long time to get back to normal. Maybe try showing some compassion and empathy for Deonte's journey rather than using his tragedy to constantly push your anti-Wojo agenda.
Don't bother he might as well be a piece of 2x4 that is the extent of his sensibility as a human being. He will just keep it up no matter what. He is not capable of understanding....