MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: rocky_warrior on November 21, 2018, 09:19:00 PM
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... those that have been paying attention, got what was expected, because Marquette didn't exceed expectations.
... those that expected a Kansas blowout, are not as happy as they could be.
... those that hate Wojo, think the 1st half was a fluke, and the 2nd half is the whole story.
If MUScoop had a 12 year powerpoint plan. We're 100% to expectation.
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Vegas had the game at 8.5. MU played 30 decent minutes. Losing to a top 3 team on a neutral court by single digits is not Hiroshima.
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I should add...
Happy thanksgiving MU fans. We all want the same thing.
To win oodles and oodles of games. And to get pumpkin and/or pecan pie for dessert. I prefer all 3!
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I had them losing this game, the next one and then Kansas State. Come BE time, they get the kinks out and do extremely well in a down year BE.
Only expectation so far not met is Ed Morrow, who I thought would be a huge impact, but is a huge disappointment. Wish Joey didn’t get in foul trouble, he is special and did not miss a shot tonight. He is needed/required for offense.
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Bailey is pressing. His defense is bad.
For those who think he should average 20 minutes are sadly mistaken.
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Bailey is pressing. His defense is bad.
For those who think he should average 20 minutes are sadly mistaken.
Exactly right. He’ll probably be fine, but he is clearly not ready for anything more than a very minor role for now
That said, I’d play him over Morrow without thinking twice
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There are no slashers on this team. No one can drive and score or post up down low. Its straight up live and die by the three
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There are no slashers on this team. No one can drive and score or post up down low. Its straight up live and die by the three
which begs the question... is Wojo as great of a recruiter as we think he is?
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which begs the question... is Wojo as great of a recruiter as we think he is?
Wojo is a very solid above average recruiter. He has assembled a fully stocked team capable of a top tier finish in the Big East . He definitely is making good use of the tools and resources at his disposal. However , he is not a great recruiter which would imply a roster with enough quality to be a factor in the national conversation, top 15 high seed in tournament etc.
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Absolutely not. I think hes decent enough to get the big wisconsin hometown boys but hes not a national elite player recruiter. What did we add one piece this year along w a bunch of scrubs. Tuny is the biggest wtf roster add ever???!!!?
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Tuny is the biggest wtf roster add ever???!!!?
Not with Morrow he isn’t. Only question is, how in the world did he post modest success in Big 10?? Did he pad stats in garbage time? I’d seriously like to know
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It’s really sickening to read the high amount of apologists on this board. Who gives a sh*t what the spread was or that they’re the #3 team in country. They had a 12 point lead late in half and then went over 9 minutes without scoring. Not 1 point. This happened many times last year. Run a damn set plau! They shot their first free throw about 30 minutes in. Howard takes terrible shots and never gets yanked. Other players make 1 mistake and get yanked. Defensive rotations are awful. No one can stop the dribble drive. Team can’t play defense without fouling. Team turns the ball over constantly. These are coaching issues and they’ve been consistent into Wojo’s 5th year.
Marquette spends over $10M on their basketball program, not including a use of a private jet. Top 6 teams in terms of spending: Louisville, Kentucky, Syracuse, UCLA, Marquette & Duke. Which team doesn’t belong? The results are unacceptable in my book.
Wojo seems like a good person and seems to have a knack for recruiting. I’ve been patient, but it’s obvious the guy can’t coach. I don’t see anything different in 5 games that I saw in the previous 4 years. Thankfully the big east is very weak so maybe they can pick up 11 conference wins and make it into tourney. I don’t get why Wojo has such a long leash. Results have been awful! Mike deane made 2 tourneys and 2 NITs in his 5 years and got canned.
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Under Wojo's 'development' Morrow's game has regressed to a painfully bad level
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Under Wojo's 'development' Morrow's game has regressed to a painfully bad level
Morrow has been the biggest concern so far. I almost wonder if he's injured. Mind-boggling how much he has seemed to regress from his Husker days
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It’s really sickening to read the high amount of apologists on this board. Who gives a sh*t what the spread was or that they’re the #3 team in country. They had a 12 point lead late in half and then went over 9 minutes without scoring. Not 1 point. This happened many times last year. Run a damn set plau! They shot their first free throw about 30 minutes in. Howard takes terrible shots and never gets yanked. Other players make 1 mistake and get yanked. Defensive rotations are awful. No one can stop the dribble drive. Team can’t play defense without fouling. Team turns the ball over constantly. These are coaching issues and they’ve been consistent into Wojo’s 5th year.
Marquette spends over $10M on their basketball program, not including a use of a private jet. Top 6 teams in terms of spending: Louisville, Kentucky, Syracuse, UCLA, Marquette & Duke. Which team doesn’t belong? The results are unacceptable in my book.
Wojo seems like a good person and seems to have a knack for recruiting. I’ve been patient, but it’s obvious the guy can’t coach. I don’t see anything different in 5 games that I saw in the previous 4 years. Thankfully the big east is very weak so maybe they can pick up 11 conference wins and make it into tourney. I don’t get why Wojo has such a long leash. Results have been awful! Mike deane made 2 tourneys and 2 NITs in his 5 years and got canned.
Top 6... and what was wojo been able to accomplish?
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Marquette spends over $10M on their basketball program, not including a use of a private jet. Top 6 teams in terms of spending: Louisville, Kentucky, Syracuse, UCLA, Marquette & Duke. Which team doesn’t belong? The results are unacceptable in my book.
Even if your spending numbers were correct (which they probably aren't). As of today...Kenpom numbers...
#1 Duke
#15 Kentucky
#17 Syracuse
#34 Marquette
#39 UCLA
#58 Louisville
I'd say we're right there with the rest of our spending peers....
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This played out similarly to what I expected, with exaggerated good and bad. I figured we'd have spurts of offense in the first half to stay competitive and then we'd see changes from KU in the second half that put the game away.
Unfortunately, the bad to begin the second half was as bad as a team can play. And it lasted for almost 10 minutes! 10 freakin' minutes. That's just not going to cut it in high major basketball. We need to find a way to be more consistent. Preferably before Bucky shows up at Fiserv in a few weeks.
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Hilarious how the consensus has already changed from Sweet 16 or farther into let’s just make the tournament.. unacceptable with this talent level. Unfortunately the best scorer on the team only does that well and nothing else, and can completely take his own team out of the game with terrible shots that don’t fall.
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Everything has built to this moment. I don’t expect to beat Kansas or win every game but I do expect to win most of them.
We’re gonna know by Dec 8th if we made the right hire or not.
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The last 4 years:
Duke: 117-32 (.785), 4 NCAAs (12-3, Champions 2015, Sweet 16 2016, 2nd Round 2017, Elite 8 2018)
Kentucky: 123-26 (.825) 4 NCAAs (10-4, Final Four 2015, 2nd Round 2016, Elite 8 2017, Sweet 16 2018)
Syracuse:81-54 (.600), 2 NCAAs (7-2, Final Four 2016, Sweet 16 2018), 1 NIT (1-1, 2nd Round 2017)
UCLA:89-48 (.649) 3 NCAAs (4-3, Sweet 16 2015 & 2017, First Four 2018)
Louisville: 97-40 (.708), 2 NCAAs (4-2, Elite 8 2015, 2nd Round 2017), 1 NIT (2-1, Quarterfinals 2016)
Marquette:73-58 (.557) 1 NCAA (0-1, First Round 2017), 1 NIT (2-1, Quarterfinals 2018)
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We are not who we thought we were.
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Tuny is the biggest wtf roster add ever???!!!?
I remember how absolutely awful Locket looked until he suddenly made some buckets and played D in the NCAA tournament. so he deserves more time
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We are not who we thought we were.
that’s what happen when you mess with happy.
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The last 4 years:
Syracuse:81-54 (.600), 2 NCAAs (2-2, 2nd Round 2016 & 2018), 1 NIT (1-1, 2nd Round 2017)
I didn't fact check the rest, but Syracuse was 7-2 in the NCAAs with a Final Four in 2016 & Sweet 16 in 2018.
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Oh God...someone is bringing up how much the University spends without context again....
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Wojo is a very solid above average recruiter. He has assembled a fully stocked team capable of a top tier finish in the Big East . He definitely is making good use of the tools and resources at his disposal. However , he is not a great recruiter which would imply a roster with enough quality to be a factor in the national conversation, top 15 high seed in tournament etc.
We have good players, but we don't have a high D-1 PG, post scorer or slashers I suppose Howard, Cain and Anim are our best slashers, but they certainly have trouble doing that against the top tier teams.
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Under Wojo's 'development' Morrow's game has regressed to a painfully bad level
Sort of like the awesome Australian last year, ayna? Wojo wizardry.
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Not sure I fit Rocky's post. I'm starting to worry that those who feel Wojo can't coach are correct. His results thus far (since being at MU) have not been what I expected and they don't look like a top 25 team to me right now. I have not been impressed with a single game this year...that said...I also appreciate that Wojo doesnt pay players.
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CTWarrior
You are correct. We have good players, not great players. The talent level needs to be coached up for this group to have success this season. Going forward, Wojo needs to land much better talent or really up his coaching skills.
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What about ANIM? Where has this guy been? Looks like freshman year Anim???
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What about ANIM? Where has this guy been? Looks like freshman year Anim???
For about a year no one even knew where he was.
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I've laid low so far after last night. It was a debcale in that we went 10 minutes without a score. I don't care who you are playing, if you're leading by 12 at one point, something is really wrong when you go that long without scoring.
That's on the coach. Either your team is not the sum of its parts, but rather five guys wandering and looking for a score, or your coach doesn't have a clue. You just have to stop a long-lasting run, I don't care how talented the other team is.
I agree with Goose that we have a good team. Not a great one but a good one.
Everyone in this board HATES Bo "Dracula" Ryan, but he would have this team playing for the national championship. I don't think Dracula ever had a team with this much talent and yet he consistently won because his players knew their roles. As Goose says in another post, they have to be coached up. Dracula coached his teams up!
What Wojo needs is something the Hillbilly had in Jerry Wainwright -- a former head coach who knew the "X"s and "O"s of the college game. I like Stan but I think Wojo needs to augment his staff with someone like Jerry.
One final thought about last night: I think Wojo bit off more than he could chew this year. The scheduling of Kansas, Kansas State, Indiana, Wisconsin and now Louisville combined suggested he thought he had a lot more than he has shown so far this year. I gotta believe he thought he had a lot more than he does.
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I didn't fact check the rest, but Syracuse was 7-2 in the NCAAs with a Final Four in 2016 & Sweet 16 in 2018.
You are correct. I will make the change to my post.
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dgies,
Those last two Frank Kaminsky teams had way more talent than this MU team. Thank god they didn’t win a National Championship. Those teams were like the culmination of everything Bo had worked for over his entire career. As much as I hate the Badgers, I’ll give credit where it’s due.
I just don’t think this MU team is that talented. The Hausers and Howard are good players. The rest of the guys range from “inconsistent” to “meh”. We may need a better coach, but we need better players, too.
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Kansas went in at halftime and prepared. Wojo gave some speech he read in a motivational book and we got destroyed. I saw it from five rows away. I was a Wojo guy until now.
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dgies,
Those last two Frank Kaminsky teams had way more talent than this MU team. Thank god they didn’t win a National Championship. Those teams were like the culmination of everything Bo had worked for over his entire career. As much as I hate the Badgers, I’ll give credit where it’s due.
I just don’t think this MU team is that talented. The Hausers and Howard are good players. The rest of the guys range from “inconsistent” to “meh”. We may need a better coach, but we need better players, too.
Brother Research, I am not sure whether I agree with the talent comparison or not. Time will tell and yes, thank God they did not win a NatChamp because they would be far worse than we are with our 1977 banner!
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Kansas went in at halftime and prepared. Wojo gave some speech he read in a motivational book and we got destroyed. I saw it from five rows away. I was a Wojo guy until now.
#coachingmattas
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Brother Research, I am not sure whether I agree with the talent comparison or not. Time will tell and yes, thank God they did not win a NatChamp because they would be far worse than we are with our 1977 banner!
That team had the national college player of the year and a top 20 player coming out of high school, both of whom were drafted in the first round that year. That team had MUCH more talent than this MU team does.
I personally think Marquette's talent is a big overrated.
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Kansas went in at halftime and prepared. Wojo gave some speech he read in a motivational book and we got destroyed. I saw it from five rows away. I was a Wojo guy until now.
They had rows looking into the locker room?
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Kansas went in at halftime and prepared. Wojo gave some speech he read in a motivational book and we got destroyed. I saw it from five rows away. I was a Wojo guy until now.
Self adjusted at half, all Wojo apparently did was pray, hey?
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CTWarrior
You are correct. We have good players, not great players. The talent level needs to be coached up for this group to have success this season. Going forward, Wojo needs to land much better talent or really up his coaching skills.
This is it in a nutshell, and 15ish year's at K's side and now 4.5 on the job at MU - I'm afraid there isn't going to be much growth in Wojo's coaching chops.
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Self adjusted at half, all Wojo apparently did was pray, hey?
He better pray we don't lose Friday
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Oh God...someone is bringing up how much the University spends without context again....
What additional context should be added? Why would comparing the budgets not provide a fair comparison?
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What additional context should be added? Why would comparing the budgets not provide a fair comparison?
Marquette includes its rent payments for ff I’m its totals. Other schools don’t have such payments.
And it’s silly anyway. Marquette reaps all sorts of benefits from its investment in basketball.
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Oh God...someone is bringing up how much the University spends without context again....
So true. Wojo has no resources. MU has no business being in the Big East. If MU could have a top 300 basketball budget then Wojo would have a chance at winning. Until MU commits to men's basketball, Wojo should have a job for life, or until he takes the Duke job.
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So true. Wojo has no resources. MU has no business being in the Big East. If MU could have a top 300 basketball budget then Wojo would have a chance at winning. Until MU commits to men's basketball, Wojo should have a job for life, or until he takes the Duke job.
<shaking my head>
So disappointing...
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Let's be realistic. We played respectably with only 20 bad minutes vs. a much more talented team who should be ranked #1 or 2 next week. Defense was greatly improved. Let's wait and see how the next few weeks play out. This was much easier to watch than the last time we played in 2003.
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The last 4 years:
Duke: 117-32 (.785), 4 NCAAs (12-3, Champions 2015, Sweet 16 2016, 2nd Round 2017, Elite 8 2018)
Kentucky: 123-26 (.825) 4 NCAAs (10-4, Final Four 2015, 2nd Round 2016, Elite 8 2017, Sweet 16 2018)
Syracuse:81-54 (.600), 2 NCAAs (7-2, Final Four 2016, Sweet 16 2018), 1 NIT (1-1, 2nd Round 2017)
UCLA:89-48 (.649) 3 NCAAs (4-3, Sweet 16 2015 & 2017, First Four 2018)
Louisville: 97-40 (.708), 2 NCAAs (4-2, Elite 8 2015, 2nd Round 2017), 1 NIT (2-1, Quarterfinals 2016)
Marquette:73-58 (.557) 1 NCAA (0-1, First Round 2017), 1 NIT (2-1, Quarterfinals 2018)
Only one school in that bunch has not been in headlines the last 12 months for cheating, suspected of cheating, players mentioned in FBI probes, players stealing stuff overseas.
As you point out, all of those schools have won multiple championships and all have been to Final Fours since us. To compare MU to those schools is beyond ridiculous. They're all in better conferences, better recruiting areas, have largely been dominate for the last 50 years. NONE of those things are applicable to Marquette. NOT A DAMN SINGLE ONE.
We spend money like we do to even be in the conversation. We have to spend to be in the conversation, while those other schools have maintained for so long they don't have that extra hurdle.
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Under Wojo's 'development' Morrow's game has regressed to a painfully bad level
Well we heard before Morrow and Chartouny were very solid defensive players coming into MU. Yes different conferences etc. but both very solid on D. We have struggled on D as we all know for 4 years plus now. And it seems the 2 solid D transfers have unlearned how to play D well. But it is early in season. Maybe all this will even put
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Well we heard before Morrow and Chartouny were very solid defensive players coming into MU. Yes different conferences etc. but both very solid on D. We have struggled on D as we all know for 4 years plus now. And it seems the 2 solid D transfers have unlearned how to play D well. But it is early in season. Maybe all this will even put
I'll disagree. The defense is better than last year. We have lost to two very good teams. No one stops Kansas' interior game. Not us, not Michigan State earlier this year, not anyone. Our defense still isn't good, but it has gotten better.
Morrow is the biggest disappointment, but the season is young. He just seems lost, but perhaps that is because he is playing the 4 and not the 5.
Matt Heldt, played very well last night. Good position defense. He isn't quick enough to do it for long periods, but he made it difficult for their guys to do anything down low.
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Kansas went in at halftime and prepared. Wojo gave some speech he read in a motivational book and we got destroyed. I saw it from five rows away. I was a Wojo guy until now.
Heard the hsl time talk was an awesome powerpoint.
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Let's be realistic. We played respectably with only 20 bad minutes vs. a much more talented team who should be ranked #1 or 2 next week. Defense was greatly improved. Let's wait and see how the next few weeks play out. This was much easier to watch than the last time we played in 2003.
20 bad minutes? That is half the game. A better loss than the 2003 loss. Tell that to the committee on selection Sunday.
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20 bad minutes? That is half the game. A better loss than the 2003 loss. Tell that to the committee on selection Sunday.
Did you expect a win last night?
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I can't believe people are complaining about the defense right now.
We are 59th in defense. We are top 100 in defensive EFG% and top 100 in 3 of the 4 factors
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I can't believe people are complaining about the defense right now.
We are 59th in defense. We are top 100 in defensive EFG% and top 100 in 3 of the 4 factors
We aren't 59th in defense. Just like we aren't 20th in offense. Pomeroy numbers at this time of year are heavily based on the previous season and roster makeup.
The eFG% numbers and the other four factors are accurate, but the Off/Def rankings don't really tell you current year information until mid-December and won't be truly accurate until mid-January. Our actual ppp is 1.048 and when you look at the four factors it's clear that our defense has been much better than our offense so far.
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I can't believe people are complaining about the defense right now.
We are 59th in defense. We are top 100 in defensive EFG% and top 100 in 3 of the 4 factors
Yes, our defense is better than last year, but people don't like facts, or science. It's a strange time. Not sure your data shows we're better, but other data sources do.
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We aren't 59th in defense. Just like we aren't 20th in offense. Pomeroy numbers at this time of year are heavily based on the previous season and roster makeup.
The eFG% numbers and the other four factors are accurate, but the Off/Def rankings don't really tell you current year information until mid-December and won't be truly accurate until mid-January. Our actual ppp is 1.048 and when you look at the four factors it's clear that our defense has been much better than our offense so far.
So last year's numbers should be inflating our offense and hurting the defense. Is it safe to assume we are actually better than 59th on defense so far?
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So last year's numbers should be inflating our offense and hurting the defense. Is it safe to assume we are actually better than 59th on defense so far?
I do think that's a safe assumption, though our preseason numbers were likely inflated by Morrow and Chartouny. Our raw defensive ppp so far is 0.922, better than the adjusted estimate from Pomeroy.
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Did you expect a win last night?
I did not. I just don't consider not losing as much as the last time anything talk about. I do expect to beat Louisville. A neutral court loss to UL would be a harbinger of a pretty weak non conference record and bring back memories of last season.
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I did not. I just don't consider not losing as much as the last time anything talk about. I do expect to beat Louisville. A neutral court loss to UL would be a harbinger of a pretty weak non conference record and bring back memories of last season.
Agreed. Friday is the first game that could swing the needle one way or the other for me. I wouldn’t say fold the season if we lose, but it’d be a game we’d need to make up elsewhere if we did.
Could you win at IU or vs. Kansas? Sure, but you’d need a lot to go your way. This Louisville game is a game that yes is very loseable but is one you need to get.
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Agreed. Friday is the first game that could swing the needle one way or the other for me. I wouldn’t say fold the season if we lose, but it’d be a game we’d need to make up elsewhere if we did.
Could you win at IU or vs. Kansas? Sure, but you’d need a lot to go your way. This Louisville game is a game that yes is very loseable but is one you need to get.
Yep. I think Friday is very important for several reasons. Most important will be to help the team build some confidence. Second, it will prevent scoop from becoming a war zone!
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I'll disagree. The defense is better than last year. We have lost to two very good teams. No one stops Kansas' interior game. Not us, not Michigan State earlier this year, not anyone. Our defense still isn't good, but it has gotten better.
Morrow is the biggest disappointment, but the season is young. He just seems lost, but perhaps that is because he is playing the 4 and not the 5.
Matt Heldt, played very well last night. Good position defense. He isn't quick enough to do it for long periods, but he made it difficult for their guys to do anything down low.
DEFENSE did not loose the game. Driving into a crowd, putting up bad 2`s versus going to an outlet pass for an open three in the second half lost the game. We do not have the skill to drive and score against top teams but we have great 3 point shooters when they are open. It is madness to repeat what does not work with our players. Yes Markus was a major contributor to the loss but Wojo does not use him properly. Markus is a great outside 3 point shooter. He is not a point guard, a dribble drive wizzard, a great passer or a great defender. It is time for Wojo to face reality and work with the talents this team has and stop trying to teach what apparently can not be done.