Please answer this for me: how can the same team that dominated Notre Dame on Saturday come out and play so horrendous that it would appear that they never played the game of basketball before??? I don't know if anyone else did this but I found myself flipping between this game and the Tennessee?Vanderbilt game on ESPN. Marquette needs a player the size of Wayne Chism and a shooter like Chris Lofton. While Tennessee came out flat in the beginning, as Marquette did, they at least found their tempo and proceeded to go on to another impressive win. You have to hand it to Pearl - he plays a run and gun type of game; he is getting great recruits and he's a motivator - and he's only in this third year there.
The bottom line is where are Marquette's shooters?? All a team has to do is go to a zone because they know Marquette can't shoot....
Very disappointing loss..... I expected a much better showing than this.
A first class butt kicking.. by ourselves.
Who cares about Tennessee? What does Bruce Pearl have to do with anything?
UT beat Vandy at home, and MU lost on the road to UL. Yeah, its almost the same thing.
Quote from: warriorette on January 17, 2008, 08:18:25 PM
The bottom line is where are Marquette's shooters?? All a team has to do is go to a zone because they know Marquette can't shoot....
Louisville played good defense. Marquette shot horribly.....tonight. It happens (somewhat more frequently than we would prefer I'll grant you). Notre Dame might argue that Marquette can shoot rather well, however.
Quote from: warriorette on January 17, 2008, 08:18:25 PM
Please answer this for me: how can the same team that dominated Notre Dame on Saturday come out and play so horrendous that it would appear that they never played the game of basketball before???
Very disappointing loss..... I expected a much better showing than this.
Uhm because it's sports. How can the Green Bay Packers, likely going to the Super Bowl lose to the Chicago Bears...twice?
How can Marquette lose to Notre Dame by 20+ and East Carolina and go to the Final Four in the same year?
Because it's sports.
Time to move on, tough game on Sunday with a guy down.
Notre Dame lacks the quickness to contest our shots. We had to rush shots tonight because Lousiville guarded the heck out of us, and we don't shoot well enough to compensate for that. They handled our defense well enough that we couldn't generate offense off of steals as much as we'd like. Couple that with no low box threat and you have a long night.
tonite we met a team as athletic as we are, but with more size- they were able to defend, out rebound, pass over, shoot over, dribble past, and defeat our small quickness. ND lack the athleticism in their bigs, except for the surprising Hairygoaty.
As a person who grew up attending every Marquette game, and now lives in Tennessee, I think I can shed some light on this topic. To Navin...your right its not the same thing Vandy and L'ville. Vandy is ranked 14th in the country and 16-2, L'ville is unranked and 13-4 with loses to such juggernauts as Purdue, BYU and Cincinnati. As far as anyone concerned (at this point in time) everyone would agree that Vanderbilt is a better team than Louisville. So losing to Louisville by 20 looks much worse than had TN lost to Vandy (also, MU beating L'ville wouldn't be as impressive as TN beating Vandy). To Chicos... "its just sports" is a horrible argument when the reasons MU lose are predictable. MU has always struggled against the zone defense. Syracuse, last year, destroyed MU with the zone. WVU won this yr because Crean thought Huggins would run a press, however, he, as most small children could figure out by now, knew MU struggles against the zone. MU has no inside presence, and no strong shooters. They can only beat teams that like to run the floor with them because they are quick. TN has the shooters and the interior men to win games, MU does not. Until Crean can recruit interior guys like TN's Wayne Chism, Tyler Smith, and Duke Crews they wont win games. Until Crean can recruit shooters like JuJuan Smith, Chris Lofton and JP Prince they will always be streaky at best. Once again MU will do fine during the season, but will be one and done in the tournament (when all teams play strong zone defenses because they are scared of losing the first game). TN, a team that plays up-tempo with shooters and skilled big men will make a push for the final four.
A total suck fest is what we saw!
Quote from: MUVOL06 on January 17, 2008, 10:57:19 PM
As a person who grew up attending every Marquette game, and now lives in Tennessee, I think I can shed some light on this topic. To Navin...your right its not the same thing Vandy and L'ville. Vandy is ranked 14th in the country and 16-2, L'ville is unranked and 13-4 with loses to such juggernauts as Purdue, BYU and Cincinnati. As far as anyone concerned (at this point in time) everyone would agree that Vanderbilt is a better team than Louisville.
Aaah, I don't agree that Vandy is better than Louisville. In fact, the Sagarin rankings and Pomeroy rankings don't agree either. Vandy has a better RPI. If Louisville plays their best game and Vandy plays their best game, I like Louisville. Now that they are healthy, they are a better team than Vandy.
Now Tennessee on the other hand, that is a VERY good team.
The Louisville we played today is not the same team that lost to BYU, Cincinnati and whoever else. At full strength, they're one of the best teams in the league. Vandy's a nice team, but I'd bet my ass Louisville could take 'em at full strength on a neutral court.
We have shooters. Maybe not as many as we want but Fitz, Hayward, Acker and Cubillan can all shoot the rock. Not like Lofton, but who can? We got a little spoiled with Diener and Novak. They were the best shooters I ever saw play in a MU uniform.
Of course, our frontline is a concern. Maybe if a few more people post about it, some talented 7-footer in the class of '09 will hear you and commit to MU. Or maybe Tom Crean will hear you and start pursuing talented big men. Because, effort is obviously the problem on the recruiting trail. I bet he doesn't know that Harangody or Padgett or Kevin Love could be an asset to this team. You guys should write Tom Crean a letter and let him know. He's missing out. Or you should just keep posting it and posting it, even though there's nothing we can do about not having Trevor Mbakwe this season as we planned.
Quote from: MUVOL06 on January 17, 2008, 10:57:19 PM
As a person who grew up attending every Marquette game, and now lives in Tennessee, I think I can shed some light on this topic. To Navin...your right its not the same thing Vandy and L'ville. Vandy is ranked 14th in the country and 16-2, L'ville is unranked and 13-4 with loses to such juggernauts as Purdue, BYU and Cincinnati. As far as anyone concerned (at this point in time) everyone would agree that Vanderbilt is a better team than Louisville. So losing to Louisville by 20 looks much worse than had TN lost to Vandy (also, MU beating L'ville wouldn't be as impressive as TN beating Vandy). To Chicos... "its just sports" is a horrible argument when the reasons MU lose are predictable. MU has always struggled against the zone defense. Syracuse, last year, destroyed MU with the zone. WVU won this yr because Crean thought Huggins would run a press, however, he, as most small children could figure out by now, knew MU struggles against the zone. MU has no inside presence, and no strong shooters. They can only beat teams that like to run the floor with them because they are quick. TN has the shooters and the interior men to win games, MU does not. Until Crean can recruit interior guys like TN's Wayne Chism, Tyler Smith, and Duke Crews they wont win games. Until Crean can recruit shooters like JuJuan Smith, Chris Lofton and JP Prince they will always be streaky at best. Once again MU will do fine during the season, but will be one and done in the tournament (when all teams play strong zone defenses because they are scared of losing the first game). TN, a team that plays up-tempo with shooters and skilled big men will make a push for the final four.
Do you think Louisville, now healthy, would have lost those games to Purdue, Cincy, etc if they had the team they do now with all of their players healthy?
TN will not make the Final Four or push for it, just like they collapsed last year.
Hey, and feel free to come around here after a win too....
I will come around here after wins Chico, I just signed up yesterday. And by the way, Ill come around here too when TN goes father in the tournament than the Golden Eagles do. TN is i final four caliber team, Marquette is not, just face the facts. TN has wins against ranked teams like Ole Miss and Vanderbilt. They have road wins against Xavier and Gonzaga. They had a neutral win over a WVU team that made MU look like they had never played basketball before. BTW, I do think Louisville would have lost the games anyway, they are not that good of a team. And also Chico, can I make a suggestion? Get your narrowminded biased brain around the fact that MU can not shoot against teams that play the zone well, they just do not have the talent. They will beat every team that tries to run with them. They are a solid but not elite team. The facts are correct, TN has a better resume than MU (who has only 1 quality win against an overrated Wisconsin team). TN has been growing since the first game, its a team that will make a legitimate national championship push. In fact they are #2 in the current RPI.
We may want to consider changing the name of this board to The Sweat Lodge.
Not sure where all of the Bruce Pearl a** licking is coming from, but I must say I find it odd.
Look the only reason why I made a reference to Tennessee was because their game just happened to be on at the same time as the Marquette game. I flipped over to watch it just because I was frustrated with the Marquette game. And as I was watching it, I was just thinking how great it would be if Marquette had a player the size of Chism and a player that could shoot as well as Lofton. That was it, nothing more, nothing less..... Bruce Pearl just happens to be their coach. I can't help it if there happens to be some fans of Marquette here at this board that might like Tennessee too........
And...I asked a simple question as to why a team could look so great on one day and have a complete meltdown a week later. Especially a team that is supposed to be one of the top 15 teams in the nation.
MUVOl- Marquette would beat Tennessee this year. Period. At a neutral court, anyday. Perhaps in the NCAA tournament later this year?? We shall see. Go MARQUETTE!!!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 17, 2008, 08:33:53 PM
Uhm because it's sports. How can the Green Bay Packers, likely going to the Super Bowl lose to the Chicago Bears...twice?
How can Marquette lose to Notre Dame by 20+ and East Carolina and go to the Final Four in the same year?
Because it's sports.
Time to move on, tough game on Sunday with a guy down.
and because Lovie's only goal coming in as da Bearsssss head coach was to beat da Pack. ;D
As A bears Fan I hate Lovie Smith for making "Beating the Packers his goal" IT IS ONLY TWO GAME A SEASON YOUR GOAL SHOULD TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL
FIRE LOVIE!!
Quote from: warriorette on January 18, 2008, 02:48:09 PM
And...I asked a simple question as to why a team could look so great on one day and have a complete meltdown a week later. Especially a team that is supposed to be one of the top 15 teams in the nation.
1) Because our star players can't shoot very well and had an off night.
2) Some of our good shooters were not good enough/didn't have enough open shots/weren't aggressive enough
3) The other team played a zone and were big enough and athletic enough to play the zone well enough where we couldn't drive/couldn't score from the post/couldn't get the extra pass off.
4) No secondary player was able to get mad and will us to victory with a big performance. (somewhat plays into 2 but includes burk, ose and Lazar)
If 3 out of the 4 happens, we'll always lose. 4 out of 4 happened so we lost and looked completely incompetent.
This happens to our team sometimes. Not every time we see a zone but occasionally agianst a good zone the stars are going to aline and we will get pounded, more often than i'd like but what are you going to do?
Vol...we don't always struggle against the zone either...this year we lost against the zone vs WVU, last year against that zone we kicked their ass.
I think it's a bit broad to paint with that kind of brush. Just as it's equally broad for some folks to say Barro is awful when some games he's saved our bacon and played great.
When we shoot 25%, we're going to lose. We got plenty of good shots, despite the zone. We didn't make them...we lost.
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on January 18, 2008, 03:39:49 PM
As A bears Fan I hate Lovie Smith for making "Beating the Packers his goal" IT IS ONLY TWO GAME A SEASON YOUR GOAL SHOULD TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL
FIRE LOVIE!!
You are ridiculous. You want to convince us that we should want lovie smith fired for something he said 4 or 5 years ago when he was trying to get the fans and the team hyped up during a rebuilding year where they had no shot at the playoffs? Really? that's sad that you even bring that up. Like it's his fault that they have never had even an above average qb.
Chico...I agree that not all zones beat MU, but it seems to me that the teams that run it well always beat MU. While I agree with you that people criticizing Barro for having some bad games is ridiculous, he has been for the most part a solid player. I also think that MU is loaded with talented players, but talented players don't equate to talented teams. Marquette has always struggled to shoot the ball from anywhere outside of 5 feet (as a team...individual players like Novak, Diener could shoot, as well as Cubian, and this year James can shoot.) But too many times during the season these players go cold. Fitz has had a few games where he could shoot from distance but that is in the minority. He does not shoot well for the majority of games. James, McNeal, and the interior players pride themselves in scoring from right under the basket( the majority of the time). Unfortunately the zone defense was created to stop that type of offense. If MU had even one great 3pt shooter it would force teams out of that zone because they wouldn't be able to keep giving up 3's. IN regards to Creans comments that the team was not aggressive enough to score from driving the lane I have to say thats the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. Louisville would have obviously scouted MU and played a zone to disallow the drives. If he wanted them to drive more, he needs to find a shooter so that teams can not sit in a zone and the guards can drive lane. Thats simple basketball fundamentals..the way to beat a zone is to shoot them out of it. For Crean to be considered a great coach he needs to do a better job of preparing his teams to minimize their weaknesses. In regards to Shooter031...how can you even come in here and say that on the heels of an embarrassing loss to Louisville. Let me break this down statistically for you. The one common opponent they have played was WVU, neither MU or TN was at home. TN won, MU got beat easily. Quality Wins: MU 1- @ Wisconsin. TN 6- Temple, @WVU, @Xavier, @Gonzaga, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt. With their win last night, the NCAA, using their RPI(which is used for seeding purposes) ranks TN as the #1 team in the country. I know your biased, but lets be realistic, on paper TN would be at least a 10 point favorite. The only TN and MU will meet in the Tourney this yr is if MU is either a 15/16seed (never going to happen) or the 7-10seed. MU will not make it past the second round(they just dont have the shooters to do so).
Any takers that the same MU team without shooters or big men beats this same Louisville team in a few weeks at the Bradley Center?
I say we win that game, despite the "definciencies" we have (assuming DJ is healthy).
Quote from: spiral97 on January 17, 2008, 08:19:52 PM
A first class butt kicking.. by ourselves.
Favorite post of the day.
QuoteQuality Wins: MU 1- @ Wisconsin. TN 6- Temple, @WVU, @Xavier, @Gonzaga, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt.
What is your definition of a quality win.
Top 25 RPI Wins
MU: Wisconsin (16), Providence (25)
Tenn: Vandy (10), Miss (14), Xavier (15)
Top 100 RPI Wins
MU: Notre Dame (51), Seton Hall (76)
Tenn: Gonzaga (27), West Virginia (29), Temple (53), UNC Asheville (97), South Carolina (100)
Top 120 RPI Wins
MU: OK State (111), IUPUI (113)
Tenn: Western Kentucky (110)
We have at least 2, arguably 4 quality wins, all in convincing manner. Yes Tennessee has better wins but your definition of a quality win is debatable