Ousmane Barro should not be playing at this level. Louisville is showing how a strong big man -- just one -- can lead a team and influence games.
I am baffled by those who are quick to defend or attempt to legitimize Barro. Against true big men, he cannot score, defend, rebound or even set a pick. But he can certainly commit fouls.
His weakness create an enormous void in the middle that a stable of pretty fine guards cannot erase.
I must say again, Barro's inadequacies and unreliability will kill us as we move through the Big East season. Barro has not only stalled in his improvement but has become a hindrance.
Good grief...stop. And if the next game he plays well then he can play at this level? He's earned his scholarship which means he belongs at this level.
Come on, stop ripping on kids busting their ass for your alma mater.
Barro stunk tonight. No defending it. I'm glad he's busting his ass for us, but it would be nice if he wasn't embarrassing us at the same time. That said, he wasn't the only culprit tonight. The whole team looked terrible. Very embarrassing. I love this team, I just wish I could figure out why we come up with stinkers like this.
barro has absolutely 0 hands. he is ridiculously uncoordinated and shouldn't be playing D-1. how many times is he going to step on the baseline, miss a layup, or foul out, or get owned, or get a stupid moving screen or other offensive foul??
we get shell shocked and forget fundamentals. we would give up more offensive rebounds to a high school girls basketball team.
we are way too nervous, as we can't buy a layup or a dunk
this team is going nowhere. it's a sad sad truth. we simply can't get critical stops and turn the ball over way too much.
we will be lucky to keep a road game close.
seriously, how many layups are we going to miss?? inexcusable.
any "star" opposing player is going to have his best game of his career against us.
we play decent D every other possesion for about 30 seconds then we commit a stupid foul bailing them out.
Quote from: reesiecup210 on January 17, 2008, 07:57:34 PM
Barro stunk tonight. No defending it. I'm glad he's busting his ass for us, but it would be nice if he wasn't embarrassing us at the same time. That said, he wasn't the only culprit tonight. The whole team looked terrible. Very embarrassing. I love this team, I just wish I could figure out why we come up with stinkers like this.
Agree, he really struggled tonight...but when posters are saying the guy doesn't deserve a scholarship (i.e. doesn't belong on the DI level...please).
Remember the other team has a lot to say about how we play, it's not like we're playing against cardboard cutouts. We lost tonight to the team picked to win the Big East, on their home court who is currently in first place.
I said two days ago I'd be THRILLED to go 1-1 in these next two, but it wouldn't shock me to go 0-2. We'll see what happens.
This is the Big East, not the Big Ten...every game sans probably 2 are a bitch.
And how many times wil he almost mis a dunk at 6-10!!!!!!
I have to agree, Barro is downright AWFUL. Not only tonight, but all season long. I am not a frequent poster (if ever), so his performance tonight has disappointed me enough to make me post.
I appreciate his time at MU and his hustle/effort. However, his expectations coming into this year have been grossly unrealized. He had a strong junior campaign and has just completely fallen off the map of even being a respectable division 1 type of player. He has not only stalled in his development, but has completely regressed in every facet of his game.
Again, as I said, I respect his effort/hustle on the college team I love most. But, he needs to be seriously dropped in the rotation.
On another note, Burke had an awful game, too.
Barro and Burke are both awful. They've both played very good games before, which makes it perplexing how they can play that horrible.
To say that Barro busts his butt does not legitimize the fact that he has a scholarship to play basketball . There are tons of players in DIII and low D1 that somehow get money to play basketball because they bust their butt but don't have an ounce of talent. Heck, if all it took to earn a bball schlarship was hard work then I could have played.
It definitely takes some talent to play in D1. But to say that Barro has the talent to play for a top 15 team and serve as their low post threat is stretching it.
Barro could certainly play for a top 15 team but as an energy big guy off the bench, not a guy we rely on as our primary inside threat. It is not his fault we don't have better. I think that he has improved tremendously since his freshman season, and he's earned his scholarship, if you ask me.
Quote from: murambler on January 17, 2008, 08:17:50 PM
To say that Barro busts his butt does not legitimize the fact that he has a scholarship to play basketball . There are tons of players in DIII and low D1 that somehow get money to play basketball because they bust their butt but don't have an ounce of talent. Heck, if all it took to earn a bball schlarship was hard work then I could have played.
It definitely takes some talent to play in D1. But to say that Barro has the talent to play for a top 15 team and serve as their low post threat is stretching it.
I see....somehow in games where he shines we don't see those remarks...kind of strange. Look, he has a ton of limitations, calling him out as awful and not worthy of playing at this level I would expect from a different fanbase, not ours.
I guess I was wrong.
Seriously, Barro looks like a robot out there. No quickness and no bounce off the floor. Nothing we haven't known for awhile now though. He also doesn't have any touch when he shoots. Everything is a line drive up to the basket that rims out. So frustrating. We're a Scott Merrit and Robert Jackson short right now. No way in hell is our ceiling any higher than a Sweet 16 in the NCAA tourney. And thats with favorable matchups. We just don't have the bigs to do any real damage. Same story as last year.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 17, 2008, 08:28:47 PM
Barro could certainly play for a top 15 team but as an energy big guy off the bench, not a guy we rely on as our primary inside threat. It is not his fault we don't have better. I think that he has improved tremendously since his freshman season, and he's earned his scholarship, if you ask me.
DING! He should be a power forward used sparingly to spell starters, NOT counted on as our primary center.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 17, 2008, 07:38:18 PM
Good grief...stop. And if the next game he plays well then he can play at this level? He's earned his scholarship which means he belongs at this level.
Come on, stop ripping on kids busting their ass for your alma mater.
ChicosBailBonds, are you really suggesting that because Marquette has given Barro a scholarship, there is no doubt about his abilities and reliability?
How naïve is that?
Barro is awful. He should not be playing at this level. I don't care if he has had or goes on to have games where he seems adequate. He does not bring close to the stuff Marquette needs to compete throughout the Big East season.
Barro is clumsy and has greased bricks for hands. He seems uncoordinated and plays in panic mode.
ChicosBailBonds, it is nice of you to worry about Barro's feelings. But a big-time center who received a much-deserved Division I basketball scholarship, as you say, certainly can take a little criticism.
I have great fondness for my alma mater, a school where I was taught to speak the truth, not to be afraid of it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 17, 2008, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: murambler on January 17, 2008, 08:17:50 PM
To say that Barro busts his butt does not legitimize the fact that he has a scholarship to play basketball . There are tons of players in DIII and low D1 that somehow get money to play basketball because they bust their butt but don't have an ounce of talent. Heck, if all it took to earn a bball schlarship was hard work then I could have played.
It definitely takes some talent to play in D1. But to say that Barro has the talent to play for a top 15 team and serve as their low post threat is stretching it.
I see....somehow in games where he shines we don't see those remarks...kind of strange. Look, he has a ton of limitations, calling him out as awful and not worthy of playing at this level I would expect from a different fanbase, not ours.
I guess I was wrong.
The only time Barro shines is when one of our guards throws him a pass that is for a wide open layup. The guy can only function at this level when somebody sets him up and his defender leaves him from the alley. He can't create any kind of scoring opportunities for himself. No post-up game whatsoever. That kills us against more talented teams like Ville' because it forces them to not respect anything on the inside. Therefore, they can use their length and athleticism to close out and better contest our shots.
Barro is out of place. he's forced into the role of playing the 5 because he's the size. what MU needs is to have Burke and Barro being the 4 & 5 at the same time. problem is, then that leaves ZERO post players from the bench (no attacking Hazel). also, neither one of them are "go to" guys.
the comon (and reoccurring) theme is it's been 5 yrs since MU had a post player who could play the post....Robert Jackson. Barro and Burke have had good outings this season and seaons past, but those come from when we have strong outside shooting games. defenses are forced to focus more on the outside leaving them to be more open. when the shots aren't falling from the outside, defenses just stick to the lane to prevent the drives and the dump-offs to the post.
What Marquette needs and Crean has failed to get, is that post player who you can turn to and can force a defense to focus on him. so even if the outside game is down, you can turn to the inside to pick up the slack, and, hopefully, allow the outside game to get less pressure and maybe fall into sync.
You people who never hardly post on here should just keep to that. Hardly post.
Take a reality check.
Barro is not a star. Never was going to be one. He was a project coming in and he's turned out, I'd say, better than expected. Now...his last two games have been awful. He hardly played because of foul trouble and got abused down low.
But by whom? Padgett and Harongody. Two of the bigger, best all around guys in the B.East. Now, is Barro a world beater? No. He's played poorly the last two games. But his skills are running the court and playing good D...as long as he's not giving up lots of pounds or plays against guys that are much better than him). Look at who he's played.
I'm not giving him a pass. But c'mon. It's Barro. He should be an 7-10ppg, 7-9 rebound/game kind of guy. But he's a running center that lives on the lower left block. If the guards aren't penetrating and dishing, he's not an offensive threat whatsoever.
I find it hysterical that all of you are piling on Barro, when at least he posseses some skill down low running the court. Burke? I still don't know what he brings to the table other than five fouls/night.
Blackledge should be playing at least 5-10 minutes more per night right now, spelling most of those minutes from Burke, and a couple from Ous until he gets the flow back.
Again, I missed the memo that said Barro should be a downlow threat with his back to the basket.
If you wanna be upset at anyone, be upset that Burke - who was supposed to fit that role, or Hazel - who must not be producing in practice - aren't filling that need.
Then again, when we lost Mbakwe, didn't we all know that MU's weakness remained low post scoring? Barro wasn't going to turn it on and become Padgett or Hibbert. Barro's a complementary big man in college ball.
If anything, get upset that Mbakwe's out for the year. He was supposed to be playing 20 minutes/game by now. And unless all of you have been living under a rock, you know that Barro shines the most when the team is running, and particularly when James is playing well because he always finds him down on that lower block.
...sorry, but this has me cheesed off.
This team goes as well as Hayward does. He's an inside/outside threat that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn tonight. So blaming Barro is just dumb.
MU has two downlow threats - one starts and did terrible tonight. The other is out for the season. The other three guys (Hazel, Burke, Blackledge) bring no downlow scoring.
But...if MU hits one or two threes tonight, it forces the D to go out and guard, thus opening up down low. Maybe...just maybe...their struggle tonight down low had something to do w/the fact they were 1-24 during one stretch in the first half.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on January 17, 2008, 08:51:37 PM
...sorry, but this has me cheesed off.
This team goes as well as Hayward does. He's an inside/outside threat that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn tonight. So blaming Barro is just dumb.
MU has two downlow threats - one starts and did terrible tonight. The other is out for the season. The other three guys (Hazel, Burke, Blackledge) bring no downlow scoring.
But...if MU hits one or two threes tonight, it forces the D to go out and guard, thus opening up down low. Maybe...just maybe...their struggle tonight down low had something to do w/the fact they were 1-24 during one stretch in the first half.
Barro was only one of Marquette's players who wet himself tonight on a national stage.
But Barro is such a weak link that I fear for the near future; specifically, the rest of the Big East season.
Again...what's different this year than last? I've read posts like this for the last two years. We lose a game and everyone goes nuts about the season is over.
Look...we shot AWFUL and lost. Barro didn't play well, for sure. But saying the team is done because of this makes no friggin' sense. It's one game. At Louisville, shooting 1-24 in the first half. It happens. You didn't expect to overcome that on the road at L-ville did you?
I'm disappointed, but you can't just point at Barro tonight. It was a team loss and not one guy did it. Everyone missed shots gimmes tonight. Especially my boy Lazar.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on January 17, 2008, 08:51:37 PM
This team goes as well as Hayward does. He's an inside/outside threat that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn tonight. So blaming Barro is just dumb.
MU has two downlow threats - one starts and did terrible tonight. The other is out for the season. The other three guys (Hazel, Burke, Blackledge) bring no downlow scoring.
I assume you mean that Haward is the down low threat. He is not a down low threat against top quality opposition. He is a nice wing player giving it his all out of position at the 4. I agree 100% about Barro. You can't blame him for not being Elvin Hayes or something. It's not like we didn't try recruiting big men because we have Barro.
Niv...
Excuse me, but those of that us that "never hardly post should just keep to that"?!?!?!? You're right, your amazingly high # of posts (123) NEVER started at just 1.
I finally had something to add, and it is obviously more than acceptable. It appears I am not the only one who sees the serious limitations in Barro's game; not just tonight, but all season long.
And, there have been many people who have thought Barro would break out and be a star/leader on this team. No ever claimed Barro was destined for greatness, however to become a star on this team is not our of the realm of what many expected in his senior year. That said, he has been a MAJOR disappointment this season.
He was not the ONLY disappointment tonight (that was a team loss), but I have grown more and more frustrated with his individual play. He can't hold on to the ball, commits foolish fouls, and looks comletely lost and confused on the court.
Take a reality check, THIS IS NOW POST # 2!!!!
My sincere apologies to the people that just started posting. That was dumb of me to say. Sorry about that. You're right. Every MU fan has a right to post/vent/comment. Again, sorry. That was weak of me.
That said, anyone who thought Barro would be a star is crazy. At best - and honestly, this is what I hoped for - he'd continue to improve slightly on rebounding and continue to be a nice running big that got 7-10 ppg consistently.
Again, though. Look at how Barro has always scored. He has never been a back-to-the-basket guy and never was going to be. His success is dependent on MU running the ball and guards dishing it to him.
Now...has he been disappointing this season overall? Yes. I'm not gonna argue that. His fouls the last tow games have also been not good. But...he's been up against two of the better bigs in the league. We'll see how this carries over.
The bottom line, however, I think is that people's expectations of Barro were a bit high. I think he about maxed out his talents last year and to expect him to become this "star" on this team isn't realistic. The guy never played HS ball. And now people are saying he's terrible and the reason MU lost? I don't see it.
All of this boils down to frustrated fans wanting a down-low threat. This year, the closest thing we have is our tough-as-nails 4, Hayward. Yes, he's not a true post-up player, but he can post you up and then drift outside and drain a three. He's the most versatile scorer on MU. And, he's the MVP of the team from am importance standpoint.
first of all i've never just dumped on the guy.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on January 17, 2008, 08:48:29 PM
Again, I missed the memo that said Barro should be a downlow threat with his back to the basket.
while some have attacked him for that and some haven't, the unfortunate thing for him is that he's forced in to that role. and he's forced into it BECAUSE HE IS IS THE ONLY "BIG" MAN. he's not a Padgett, Hibbert, Gray, Harongody, but that's who he's going (was in the case of gray) to be matched up against. asking for 15p & 10r a game, no, but 8-10p & 6-8r a game, yes. that's what a #1 Big man on a Big East team needs to do.
I know i'll probably get attacked for bashing TC, but when i comment about the post, it's directed as a critisizm to Crean for not getting the proper guys to fill that spot. for anyone to think that guys like Barro, Hazel, Mbakwe, Hayward, and Burke are/were supposed to be the answer against true post players is ridiculous.
but the fact-of-the-matter is he's this team's big guy. He's in his 4th year. He will be matched up against Padgent, Harongody, Hibbert, Thabeet, etc. demanding 15+ pts/gm from the guy is insane. but 8pts isn't. he can't have 0 like he did tonight. he can't have 12 total pts in his last 4 games (including tonight).
he's forced into playing a role he's not supposed to be, and i will never fault him for that or not playing up to those who he faces. but athletes at all levels have to step up if that's what's needed. his fundamentals aren't as solid as they need to be, and there's nothing wrong with asking a player to achieve a minimum of what they are able to.
**** this wasn't me dumping on Barro and blaming him for everything, it was constructive criticism. and acknowledging that he doesn't get a free pass just because he's in a role that's not him.****
It's a pet peeve of mine not to rip on student athletes, especially ours. They aren't professionals. I know many people disagree with me on that which is fine. I've worked with so many of these kids that it something that just sticks in my craw.
Yes they are elite athletes, yes they are on scholarship, but they are still kids (even if by definition they have legal adult status) in my mind.
I'm not bashing Barro for no reason. His progression from where he was when he entered the program up until last year was tremendous; he did all the things that we possibly wanted/needed him to do. But it seems his forward development has ended there. It's the lack of further development of his post game that most frustrates me. He has had 4 years to work on this aspect of his game and I really don't see much improvement.
I agree with Chicos. Barro had a bad game. So what? So did everybody else, with the exception of Matthews. McNeal had 7 turnovers!
To paraphrase Dennis Green...Barro is who we thought he was. He runs the floor as well as any big man in the country, which is an enormous help to us when we can get out in the open court. Last night we couldn't.
He's also hurt by the fact that our entire team revolves around guards. That's how we practice and it's how we play. There is never a play designed for Barro. If he gets the ball, it's a surprise and oftentimes it's thrown to him because McNeal or James have got themseleves in a mid-air pickle. Put yourself in that situation. Of course you're going to drop a few passes.
It's been tough for Barro to improve defensively because there's nobody of similar size to push him in practice.
While last nights game was bad, I don't think it was the worst game of the year. At West Virginia, our poor offensive showing led to breakdowns on defense and a lack of energy. I didn't think that was the case tonight - we just couldn't make anything. Some of that obviously was defense, some of that was our inability to make wide open shots when they were available. And I can't think of a time when I saw a team miss so many layups.
As for Barro, he was criticized a lot last year and I defended him as I thought he played well for us in spots. Butthis year, he seems to have regressed badly. I think he's lost confidence and that's led to just really bad play right now and tendency to make cheap fouls. That's what's most disappointing to me - he's not establishing position downlow so he just keeps giving up space and then fouling when the guy he's guarding makes a move. He must be averaging one foul/3 minutes played. That's leading to more time for Burke and he's not the solution either.
Yea, our "awful" big guy Barro just cracked the Top 10 in blocks at Marquette, tying a guy named DWade. Damn this guy is horrendous and adds nothing at all to our team.
spartan, that's great that Barro entered the top 10 in blocks for Marquette all time. How many of those were picked up the previous 3 years as compared to this year. All I'm saying is this year his play has regressed and we might be more beneficial to have Trend out there blocking the shots.
According to stats taken from Marquette's official basketball site:
Barro has 20 blocks in 286 minutes: roughly 1 block/14 minutes
Blackledge has 11 blocks in 99 minutes: 1 block/9 minutes
Stealing a bit of your sarcasm, could you imagine that if Blackledge had been here for 4 years and played a respectable amount of minutes that he might have become the all time leader in blocks in Marquette history.
Quote from: murambler on January 18, 2008, 09:00:28 AM
I'm not bashing Barro for no reason. His progression from where he was when he entered the program up until last year was tremendous; he did all the things that we possibly wanted/needed him to do. But it seems his forward development has ended there. It's the lack of further development of his post game that most frustrates me. He has had 4 years to work on this aspect of his game and I really don't see much improvement.
So what is your suggestion? Kick him off the team? Send him back to Milwaukee tonight?
Or should we settle to just rip on him for the rest of the year because his development doesn't live up to your standards?
And please, since you apparently know how easy it is to figure out which guys have a higher top end, share your secrets. Tell us exactly which HS juniors and sophomores we might recruit now who won't "frustrate" you because of their "lack of further development" half way through their senior college seasons.
i'm with chicos and niv on this one.
the team lacked poise and flat-out panicked when the shots weren't falling. everytime we've lost a game the last two seasons, posters have claimed someone as their scapegoat. barro is a role player, that's been covered. it's unfair to to him to call him awful when he could still probably destroy you in a pick up a game. how many bad games did you have in intramurals?
and if you think i'm comparing apples to oranges hear you're taking college basketball too seriously. these kids are students first...atheletes second...just like we are/were. you don't rail on raynor or burke scholars when they get a BC in their honors english class, so get off their backs.
we have a good team...it's unrealistic to think we will win every game (although perfectly acceptable to think we can) and when the season is over, our record and post-season success won't define these players. ask any of the coaches and they care more about producing fine young men than winning a goddamn basketball game.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 18, 2008, 09:34:04 PM
Quote from: murambler on January 18, 2008, 09:00:28 AM
I'm not bashing Barro for no reason. His progression from where he was when he entered the program up until last year was tremendous; he did all the things that we possibly wanted/needed him to do. But it seems his forward development has ended there. It's the lack of further development of his post game that most frustrates me. He has had 4 years to work on this aspect of his game and I really don't see much improvement.
So what is your suggestion? Kick him off the team? Send him back to Milwaukee tonight?
Or should we settle to just rip on him for the rest of the year because his development doesn't live up to your standards?
And please, since you apparently know how easy it is to figure out which guys have a higher top end, share your secrets. Tell us exactly which HS juniors and sophomores we might recruit now who won't "frustrate" you because of their "lack of further development" half way through their senior college seasons.
I never claimed to know which guys have a "higher top end" nor have I ever suggested to kick him off the team. Rather, my conclusion is to put Blackledge out on the floor because I believe that, at this point in the season, he has more to contribute (see Henry's latest Cracked Sidewalks entry). What is there to lose?
you guys can bash ousmane all you want, but as i said before, in a year to go the distance with the significant pairity, we need barro...need him.