MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on August 26, 2018, 07:04:51 PM
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This time at a Madden video game tournament in Jacksonville.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/26/us/jacksonville-madden-shooting/index.html
Time for action? Or just more thoughts and prayers?
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This time at a Madden video game tournament in Jacksonville.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/26/us/jacksonville-madden-shooting/index.html
Time for action? Or just more thoughts and prayers?
Not the time to talk about it.
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
But we need to build that wall immediately.
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God bless the victims and their families.
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There is literally no amount of carnage, frequency of events, or category of victim that will convince 35% of the US to take action as long as the person committing the atrocity is predominantly a white male. 3 incidents in a row from people of color and there will be action against people of color - not against fire arms, mental health, etc. Until then all you will get is deflection and whataboutism
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I understand our current gun law situation makes it infinitely more approachable for unstable people to take the lives of others, but any gun law changes that don’t come with additional solutions to address the mental state of these individuals are a fools errand.
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I forgot who said it but I liked it. Essentially:
“Increase gun control and send thoughts and prayers to the gun crowd.”
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I understand our current gun law situation makes it infinitely more approachable for unstable people to take the lives of others, but any gun law changes that don’t come with additional solutions to address the mental state of these individuals are a fools errand.
Absolutely correct - affordable and accessible mental health care needs to be available for everyone. The last 10+ years has shown that the road to that solution is going to be pretty tough to pave yet there has been significant improvements (and retractions) accomplished through great effort.
Let's put the same amount of effort and change attempts into gun control. the two efforts can be done independently as there is no reason they need to be tied together.
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Absolutely correct - affordable and accessible mental health care needs to be available for everyone. The last 10+ years has shown that the road to that solution is going to be pretty tough to pave yet there has been significant improvements (and retractions) accomplished through great effort.
Let's put the same amount of effort and change attempts into gun control. the two efforts can be done independently as there is no reason they need to be tied together.
Exactly. Yes, mental health needs to be addressed...but the key word that is missed in that statement is also.
Of course there will always be violence in the world. And of course there will always be murder and if guns aren't available people will find other means to murder. But that doesn't mean that because you can't prevent all murders that you just shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, might as well protect yourself!"
I'll take my chances that a guy wielding a knife or swinging a golf club around isn't going to be able to enter a crowd of people and murder 50+ of them before someone can react.
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I understand our current gun law situation makes it infinitely more approachable for unstable people to take the lives of others, but any gun law changes that don’t come with additional solutions to address the mental state of these individuals are a fools errand.
Good post.
Unfortunately, lack of access to quality mental health/healthcare is also a big barrier right now. I'm not sure that changes either in the current climate.
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Need to deport all white males, as we are most likely to commit these mass shootings.
Oh well, it's been a good run for us.
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We have had ONE arrest here after 75 shot a few weeks ago. ONE.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-unsolved-shootings-20180820-story.html
ONE
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We have had ONE arrest here after 75 shot a few weeks ago. ONE.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-unsolved-shootings-20180820-story.html
ONE
And there is the classic red herring. Perfection
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Need to deport all white males, as we are most likely to commit these mass shootings.
Oh well, it's been a good run for us.
Lol, classic.
I will say that the blind spots in our society are getting worse, and that's one of them.
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And there is the classic red herring. Perfection
My frustration is we have way more people shot in a given weekend then any of these random events like yesterday. Both are tragic, both show deep societal problems. I cannot think of a time ever where the murderer wasn’t caught or killed in these mass shootings.
However, because people won’t cooperate with the police in our city we have almost nothing to show for it other than death, injuries and funerals. The police are frustrated as are the citizens, but too many will not act. The police are begging people to step up because they know as we all do the identities are known, but the refusal continues.
"Somebody knows who did it," the mayor said after at least 66 people were shot since Friday. "These individuals out here in the street need to stop pulling the trigger … where is the accountability for them?"
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And there is the classic red herring. Perfection
Yup, just like using the girl killed in Iowa, Chicos desperately tries for the re-direct.
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Yup, just like using the girl killed in Iowa, Chicos desperately tries for the re-direct.
WarriorDad has a Cubs logo in his avatar and says he's from Chicago, so he can't possibly be Chico's.
I wonder if WarriorDad ever ponders why people on Chicago's West and South sides are reluctant to cooperate with police. Could it be well-earned mistrust, created my decades of police misconduct, torture, indifference and incompetence, along with a proven inability to protect witnesses from reprisals?
Also, kudos for the classic victim blaming.
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Back to topic. Nothing will change for the foreseeable future. I imagine this generation of gun nuts will have to die out before we see things change for the better.
And, is anyone surprised that these shootings seem to consistently happen in Florida? Nightmare state.
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Everything is going to become unimaginably worse, and never get better again.
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Everything is going to become unimaginably worse, and never get better again.
Tangentially related..I read the book Factfulness By Hans Rosling over vacation. Highly recommend.
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My frustration is we have way more people shot in a given weekend then any of these random events like yesterday. Both are tragic, both show deep societal problems. I cannot think of a time ever where the murderer wasn’t caught or killed in these mass shootings.
However, because people won’t cooperate with the police in our city we have almost nothing to show for it other than death, injuries and funerals. The police are frustrated as are the citizens, but too many will not act. The police are begging people to step up because they know as we all do the identities are known, but the refusal continues.
"Somebody knows who did it," the mayor said after at least 66 people were shot since Friday. "These individuals out here in the street need to stop pulling the trigger … where is the accountability for them?"
The President of the United States has firmly, publicly, and consistently stated that cooperating with law enforcement "ought to be illegal" so I can't blame American citizens for taking the advice of their President.
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The President of the United States has firmly, publicly, and consistently stated that cooperating with law enforcement "ought to be illegal" so I can't blame American citizens for taking the advice of their President.
Well played.
Gotta run now and prepared to be deported with the rest of us white males. It's a shame that we've got to go, but it's time to turn this country over to lawful citizens.
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The President of the United States has firmly, publicly, and consistently stated that cooperating with law enforcement "ought to be illegal" so I can't blame American citizens for taking the advice of their President.
The escalation of shootings started long before the current adminstrstion, the lack of cooperation has also been lacking for years. Leave the national politics out of it. This is more a local issue here, Baltimore and a few other cities than most. Other cities are managing much better than we are, some of them larger than here.
I feel for the local police and investigators. Their hands are tied if citizens will not do the right thing. Emanuel is right, people know who are doing these shootings.
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I feel for the local police and investigators. Their hands are tied if citizens will not do the right thing. Emanuel is right, people know who are doing these shootings.
And you are continuing to ignore why they don't cooperate.
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Chicos be Chicosing.
As for the shooting yesterday: interesting that it's already turning into old news. Says something about how numbed everyone is to people who open fire on public places.
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I feel for the local police and investigators. Their hands are tied if citizens will not do the right thing. Emanuel is right, people know who are doing these shootings.
Sympathy for the police and investigators.
Disdain for the people they can't protect.
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I forgot who said it but I liked it. Essentially:
“Increase gun control and send thoughts and prayers to the gun crowd.”
Great bumper sticker. Sadly, competing bumper stickers are about as far as we get on these issues.
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The escalation of shootings started long before the current adminstrstion, the lack of cooperation has also been lacking for years. Leave the national politics out of it. This is more a local issue here, Baltimore and a few other cities than most. Other cities are managing much better than we are, some of them larger than here.
I trust you are pushing for harsher gun control measures in Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Mississippi, and the other states where 60% of the recovered guns used in Chicago are coming from?
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Gosh, these arguments seem so familiar.
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I trust you are pushing for harsher gun control measures in Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Mississippi, and the other states where 60% of the recovered guns used in Chicago are coming from?
I am mostly concerned about the people pulling the trigger. There are states and cities that have more guns then we do, but not the carnage we do. There are also those that have worse statistics then we do. We are not the worst, but I would like to know why we have this problem. Some of the states or locales doing better have stricter laws than us, but that isn’t universally the case either. There are those deemed to have laxer laws but doing better than we are.
Somehow their citizens are better than ours in this area. That doesn’t change Emanuel’s correct statement that there are people that know and refuse to do anything about it. We can talk about laws forever, but good police work also requires some cooperation from the citizenry in capturing criminals. Do you disagree with this? Do you think the police and their frustration from lack of cooperation is incorrect and they are merely incompetent?
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I am mostly concerned about the people pulling the trigger. There are states and cities that have more guns then we do, but not the carnage we do. There are also those that have worse statistics then we do. We are not the worst, but I would like to know why we have this problem. Some of the states or locales doing better have stricter laws than us, but that isn’t universally the case either. There are those deemed to have laxer laws but doing better than we are.
Somehow their citizens are better than ours in this area. That doesn’t change Emanuel’s correct statement that there are people that know and refuse to do anything about it. We can talk about laws forever, but good police work also requires some cooperation from the citizenry in capturing criminals. Do you disagree with this? Do you think the police and their frustration from lack of cooperation is incorrect and they are merely incompetent?
Lol at all the “we” and “our.” That’s the stuff people say for their sports teams. I’ve never heard that for somone’s city. Hilarious the depths Chico’s will go to prove he isn’t Chico’s and is really the mayor or police chief of Chicago.
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Somehow their citizens are better than ours in this area. That doesn’t change Emanuel’s correct statement that there are people that know and refuse to do anything about it. We can talk about laws forever, but good police work also requires some cooperation from the citizenry in capturing criminals. Do you disagree with this? Do you think the police and their frustration from lack of cooperation is incorrect and they are merely incompetent?
This goes down in the annals of bad takes.
Bad citizens are the problem.
Not the massive growth of the heroin/opiate market (funded primarily by white kids from the suburbs).
Not the easy access to guns.
Not the breakdown of gang hierarchies.
Not the closing of dozens of neighborhood schools.
Not the systemic (and deserving) mistrust of police and the legal system, which leads people to seek extra-judicial resolutions to beefs.
Not the lack of opportunities outside the drug trade.
Not the teenage pregnancies and childbirth.
Not the breakdown of families, caused in part by the mass incarceration of males.
Nope, the big problem is that the victims of violence aren't putting their lives in even more jeopardy by cooperating with a police force and justice system that been historically indifferent - and at times hostile - to their well-being.
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Nope, the big problem is that the victims of violence aren't putting their lives in even more jeopardy by cooperating with a police force and justice system that been historically indifferent - and at times hostile - to their well-being.
Chicos has systematically ignored this point about a half dozen times now.
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Lol at all the “we” and “our.” That’s the stuff people say for their sports teams. I’ve never heard that for somone’s city. Hilarious the depths Chico’s will go to prove he isn’t Chico’s and is really the mayor or police chief of Chicago.
He's really lost his mind. Doesn't benefit anyone to respond.
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Wait ... what's a chicos?
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Another kid that was treated for mental illness multiple times, on psychotic drugs since he was 12. We have a mental illness epidemic in this country and we do to little to address it. People afraid of the stigma? How he was allowed to legally buy guns is an outrage and those laws have to be changed. We also must do something about people that are mentally ill.
https://triblive.com/usworld/world/14017115-74/jacksonville-shooting-suspect-david-katz-had-history-of-mental-illness
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Lol at all the “we” and “our.” That’s the stuff people say for their sports teams. I’ve never heard that for somone’s city. Hilarious the depths Chico’s will go to prove he isn’t Chico’s and is really the mayor or police chief of Chicago.
You have never heard people say that? Our police, our town, our community, our nation, our teachers? It isn't only a sports reference. This is how we were raised. I still hear it often, and see it often. Don't be upset at me because you aren't seeing it. Happy to help you out.
(https://newscdn.weigelbroadcasting.com/4eydg-1502916871-87438-blog-WeSupportPolice.JPG)
(http://www.mfnw.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/13819458_10210005678317258_1788339208_n.jpg)
(https://media.phillyvoice.com/media/images/Kristin_Meehan.2e16d0ba.fill-735x490.jpg)
(https://fbcoverstreet.com/thumbnail/gbJOlOm6dlQEblWkycGLKq3GpUEwXbChS6ckgPPma5ThOUR95jOYbM6ziChQJyiB.webp)
(https://smhttp-ssl-33667.nexcesscdn.net/manual/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/MyCity-Chicago-Blog-1050x500.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/537025637551075328/Y2OR2c_c.jpeg)
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This goes down in the annals of bad takes.
It is all of the above, but as mentioned other cities have this too, and are more cooperative. Our own mayor is saying this! Our own police superintendent (Eddie Johnson) has said this, don't listen to me, listen to them. They are pleading for the citizenry to stand up because everyone knows they have the information, but aren't willing to cooperate. If it is a bad take, then please let Mr. Emanuel and Mr. Johnson.
“You all know who these individuals are,” a frustrated Johnson said at one point.
“People, they’re under the no-snitching act,” Davis said. “Whoever did this is pretending to go on with their life.”
No snitching is part of the problem. It is not the only part. We cannot ignore it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/07/chicago-gun-violence-homicide-clearance/925630002/
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Yeah I have to agree with Wades here. I've never seen someone use the first person this often when referring to hometown and political party. Sure it happens in specific contexts, but using it exclusively on a message board is something I haven't seen before. Must be a Chicago thing.
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I am mostly concerned about the people pulling the trigger. There are states and cities that have more guns then we do, but not the carnage we do. There are also those that have worse statistics then we do. We are not the worst, but I would like to know why we have this problem. Some of the states or locales doing better have stricter laws than us, but that isn’t universally the case either. There are those deemed to have laxer laws but doing better than we are.
Somehow their citizens are better than ours in this area. That doesn’t change Emanuel’s correct statement that there are people that know and refuse to do anything about it. We can talk about laws forever, but good police work also requires some cooperation from the citizenry in capturing criminals. Do you disagree with this? Do you think the police and their frustration from lack of cooperation is incorrect and they are merely incompetent?
Have you ever sat back and wondered why none of the locals would turn the mobsters in back in their hay day? Many of the gangs on the street have taken a similar approach of fear and intimidation at a smaller localized level to ensure the neighborhood cooperates with them. That and some of pakunis points about general mistrust and such.
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You have never heard people say that? Our police, our town, our community, our nation, our teachers? It isn't only a sports reference. This is how we were raised. I still hear it often, and see it often. Don't be upset at me because you aren't seeing it. Happy to help you out.
(https://newscdn.weigelbroadcasting.com/4eydg-1502916871-87438-blog-WeSupportPolice.JPG)
(http://www.mfnw.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/13819458_10210005678317258_1788339208_n.jpg)
(https://media.phillyvoice.com/media/images/Kristin_Meehan.2e16d0ba.fill-735x490.jpg)
(https://fbcoverstreet.com/thumbnail/gbJOlOm6dlQEblWkycGLKq3GpUEwXbChS6ckgPPma5ThOUR95jOYbM6ziChQJyiB.webp)
(https://smhttp-ssl-33667.nexcesscdn.net/manual/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/MyCity-Chicago-Blog-1050x500.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/537025637551075328/Y2OR2c_c.jpeg)
Do political cartoons next.
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Another kid that was treated for mental illness multiple times, on psychotic drugs since he was 12. We have a mental illness epidemic in this country and we do to little to address it. People afraid of the stigma? How he was allowed to legally buy guns is an outrage and those laws have to be changed. We also must do something about people that are mentally ill.
https://triblive.com/usworld/world/14017115-74/jacksonville-shooting-suspect-david-katz-had-history-of-mental-illness
Interesting. When talking about Chicago shootings, you point toward a problem with the citizens, indicating people outside Chicago are "better".
Yet when it comes to the Jacksonville shooter, you immediately talk about mental illness.
Now what is the difference between those shooters in Chicago and the Jacksonville shooter? Why do you immediately attack the character of one group and try to show compassion and deflect to a psychological problem for the other?
Things that make you go hmm...
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Interesting. When talking about Chicago shootings, you point toward a problem with the citizens, indicating people outside Chicago are "better".
Yet when it comes to the Jacksonville shooter, you immediately talk about mental illness.
Now what is the difference between those shooters in Chicago and the Jacksonville shooter? Why do you immediately attack the character of one group and try to show compassion and deflect to a psychological problem for the other?
Things that make you go hmm...
That's how things roll at White Lives Matter Ranch.
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Beating up on Chico's/warriordad is not making things better. I think most can agree that there are many facets to this issue and any solution has to be multi-pronged. Mental health, culture, rebuilding trust between the police and the public, and yes, guns. Registration, taxing guns and ammo heavily, banning AR-15 and similar style weapons. All of them.
To actually do these things requires money and will.
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It is all of the above, but as mentioned other cities have this too, and are more cooperative. Our own mayor is saying this! Our own police superintendent (Eddie Johnson) has said this, don't listen to me, listen to them. They are pleading for the citizenry to stand up because everyone knows they have the information, but aren't willing to cooperate. If it is a bad take, then please let Mr. Emanuel and Mr. Johnson.
“You all know who these individuals are,” a frustrated Johnson said at one point.
“People, they’re under the no-snitching act,” Davis said. “Whoever did this is pretending to go on with their life.”
No snitching is part of the problem. It is not the only part. We cannot ignore it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/07/chicago-gun-violence-homicide-clearance/925630002/
It's easy to blame "bad" citizens from behind the comfort of your keyboard. But I wonder how eager you'd be to cooperate when doing so puts you and your family in the crosshairs of gang members who have shown no reluctance to use violence as a means to their ends. And when police have a proven inability to protect you and your family from reprisals.
If you put on your thinking cap for a moment, you'd understand that staying quiet is, unfortunately, the rational decision.
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It's easy to blame "bad" citizens from behind the comfort of your keyboard. But I wonder how eager you'd be to cooperate when doing so puts you and your family in the crosshairs of gang members who have shown no reluctance to use violence as a means to their ends. And when police have a proven inability to protect you and your family from reprisals.
If you put on your thinking cap for a moment, you'd understand that staying quiet is, unfortunately, the rational decision.
People get shot in broad daylight ALL the time. You have a score to settle, you roll up on your target and shoot them, whenever. That level of DGAF and wanton violence in an openly public setting is usually reserved for active war zones. But sure, expect the citizens (who already are leery of the police for a myriad of reasons) to be the ones to stop the violence with cooperation and testifying.
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Beating up on Chico's/warriordad is not making things better.
In one sense I disagree. You are right that it does nothing directly; however, letting Chicos racist arguments go unchallenged only makes things worse. Blacks and other PoC who shoot each other in gang violence are horrible people, but the white mass murderer is just suffering from lack of mental health care? Typical loathsome chicos.
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In one sense I disagree. You are right that it does nothing directly; however, letting Chicos racist arguments go unchallenged only makes things worse. Blacks and other PoC who shoot each other in gang violence are horrible people, but the white mass murderer is just suffering from lack of mental health care? Typical loathsome chicos.
Good point.
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In one sense I disagree. You are right that it does nothing directly; however, letting Chicos racist arguments go unchallenged only makes things worse. Blacks and other PoC who shoot each other in gang violence are horrible people, but the white mass murderer is just suffering from lack of mental health care? Typical loathsome chicos.
I would agree, to a point. I think it's important to call out incorrect viewpoints. Less as an attack and more to hopefully correct the position. That way we have less people with incorrect viewpoints. It's a lot easier/more direct with things like flat Earth, vaccines, etc. But should still be done.
Granted, easier said than done. And there comes a point where correction is impossible/banging your head against a wall.
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He is an easy target, as he has a long history, granted. And we all know about the positions and the demagoguing of issues. But it is time for all of us to realize that demonizing 'the other' isn't working. It is easy, it makes us feel better in the short term, but it isn't the answer.
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Chico’s, wonder what you think about this thread about your “city”:
https://mobile.twitter.com/eveewing/status/1018506163128856578
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Chico’s, wonder what you think about this thread about your “city”:
https://mobile.twitter.com/eveewing/status/1018506163128856578
That thread:
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0de120c10a661c15cb60fe77b8eac367/tenor.gif?itemid=5833390)
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Interesting. When talking about Chicago shootings, you point toward a problem with the citizens, indicating people outside Chicago are "better".
Yet when it comes to the Jacksonville shooter, you immediately talk about mental illness.
Now what is the difference between those shooters in Chicago and the Jacksonville shooter? Why do you immediately attack the character of one group and try to show compassion and deflect to a psychological problem for the other?
Things that make you go hmm...
The mayor and superintendent of police of my city have pleaded for our help. In my view they want to put criminals away, make the city safer. There are a number of ways to do this, but as law enforcement they have to use the laws, they cannot create them. They have asked for the help of citizens on the news, in the last few weeks. I do not understand why our leaders are somehow wicked men for wanting to improve the lives of the people in their city's care and to make it safer? Nor do I understand why anyone that supports that position of safety would be questioned either.
The shooter in Baltimore according to the news was hospitalized multiple times. I repeated both items as facts as reported by the news. If they are no longer facts, then I will change what I read or saw.
In one sense I disagree. You are right that it does nothing directly; however, letting Chicos racist arguments go unchallenged only makes things worse. Blacks and other PoC who shoot each other in gang violence are horrible people, but the white mass murderer is just suffering from lack of mental health care?
What is racist about Mr. Emanuel or Mr. Johnson's pleas to the public, or their frustration with the public's lack of cooperation. If you think they are racist, we disagree. What is racist about the shooter in Baltimore having been institutionalized several times and on medication most of his life. How was he allowed to purchase a gun? It is appalling.
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The mayor and superintendent of police of my city have pleaded for our help. In my view they want to put criminals away, make the city safer. There are a number of ways to do this, but as law enforcement they have to use the laws, they cannot create them. They have asked for the help of citizens on the news, in the last few weeks. I do not understand why our leaders are somehow wicked men for wanting to improve the lives of the people in their city's care and to make it safer? Nor do I understand why anyone that supports that position of safety would be questioned either.
The shooter in Baltimore according to the news was hospitalized multiple times. I repeated both items as facts as reported by the news. If they are no longer facts, then I will change what I read or saw.
What is racist about Mr. Emanuel or Mr. Johnson's pleas to the public, or their frustration with the public's lack of cooperation. If you think they are racist, we disagree. What is racist about the shooter in Baltimore having been institutionalized several times and on medication most of his life. How was he allowed to purchase a gun? It is appalling.
Um. You are not at all reading what anyone is posting. No one has said any of Chicago's leaders or police are "wicked". Go back and re-read things. You're completely missing the point, unintentionally or otherwise.
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What is racist about Mr. Emanuel or Mr. Johnson's pleas to the public, or their frustration with the public's lack of cooperation. If you think they are racist, we disagree.
No Chico, it's YOU that we all know is a racist. Maybe you want to try pretending that you are a black person again?
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The mayor and superintendent of police of my city have pleaded for our help. In my view they want to put criminals away, make the city safer. There are a number of ways to do this, but as law enforcement they have to use the laws, they cannot create them. They have asked for the help of citizens on the news, in the last few weeks. I do not understand why our leaders are somehow wicked men for wanting to improve the lives of the people in their city's care and to make it safer? Nor do I understand why anyone that supports that position of safety would be questioned either.
You're really going to criticize the affected citizens for not willfully running to the police with information when Laquan McDonald and Quintonio LeGrier are very much top of mind, beyond the potential ramifications of gang violence towards them?
Nobody called Emanuel or other leaders wicked, but thwarting this upon the people trying to survive in a living hell is pretty damn callous.
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He is an easy target, as he has a long history, granted. And we all know about the positions and the demagoguing of issues. But it is time for all of us to realize that demonizing 'the other' isn't working. It is easy, it makes us feel better in the short term, but it isn't the answer.
This Tower guy isn't just a pretty face, ladies and gentlemen.
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Interesting. When talking about Chicago shootings, you point toward a problem with the citizens, indicating people outside Chicago are "better".
Yet when it comes to the Jacksonville shooter, you immediately talk about mental illness.
Now what is the difference between those shooters in Chicago and the Jacksonville shooter? Why do you immediately attack the character of one group and try to show compassion and deflect to a psychological problem for the other?
Things that make you go hmm...
I ache for young people who grow up in these war zones. And I understand the allure of the gang as a way out. But most don't make that bad/wrong choice. I don't think the mentally ill have a choice. That's the difference IMO.
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I ache for young people who grow up in these war zones. And I understand the allure of the gang as a way out. But most don't make that bad/wrong choice. I don't think the mentally ill have a choice. That's the difference IMO.
Nope. The difference is that "mental illness" is a racist dogwhistle that is applied to white mass shooters to indicate an individual problem while the inferior character applied to black shooters indicates there is a problem with all black people.
It's racism, plain and simple.
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Nope. The difference is that "mental illness" is a racist dogwhistle that is applied to white mass shooters to indicate an individual problem while the inferior character applied to black shooters indicates there is a problem with all black people.
It's racism, plain and simple.
So if I think that mental illness can be a mitigating circumstance in a murder case I'm a racist, pure and simple?
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I blame black men for all of this.
If there were more black males doing mass shootings, we could call them mentally ill, too. I can't believe they just sit there and let white males have all the fun.
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So if I think that mental illness can be a mitigating circumstance in a murder case I'm a racist, pure and simple?
I don't think that is what he is saying, Lenny. Of course, mental illness can be a major factor whether the shooter was black or white or somewhere in-between.
Rather he was talking about a prevailing attitude within this country where men of different races are judged differently for committing the same act.
When the general population looks at gov't programs, be it public housing, head start, food stamps, medicaid, or welfare, they see these as programs for blacks even though more whites use each of them. When asked about Unemployment insurance, or social security, people think more whites get these benefits. Why? Because to get either benefit, you had to be working. That is the institutional racism in this country.
These same attitudes show up when judging criminals - which I think goes back to his point.
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I don't think that is what he is saying, Lenny. Of course, mental illness can be a major factor whether the shooter was black or white or somewhere in-between.
Rather he was talking about a prevailing attitude within this country where men of different races are judged differently for committing the same act.
When the general population looks at gov't programs, be it public housing, head start, food stamps, medicaid, or welfare, they see these as programs for blacks even though more whites use each of them. When asked about Unemployment insurance, or social security, people think more whites get these benefits. Why? Because to get either benefit, you had to be working. That is the institutional racism in this country.
These same attitudes show up when judging criminals - which I think goes back to his point.
Superbly articulated.
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Nope. The difference is that "mental illness" is a racist dogwhistle that is applied to white mass shooters to indicate an individual problem while the inferior character applied to black shooters indicates there is a problem with all black people.
It's racism, plain and simple.
Can you explain to me the Washington Post article about this? Is the Washington Post a racist newspaper because they are using a dog whistle? Plain and simple question. I mentioned mental illness because I found it appalling that this man was able to purchase guns with his mental background. That has to change. Why are you bringing race into this? It could be that many of the murders in this town are also the result of mental illness, but I haven't seen as a causation by any experts or the media. However, mental illness is the reason for this mass shooting. Race has nothing to do with it and why you are bringing into this discussion is also appalling.
Note the headline of the Post, tell me where this has anything to do with race. This is a mental illness question - Plain and Simple.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2yux6cg.jpg)
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I don't think that is what he is saying, Lenny. Of course, mental illness can be a major factor whether the shooter was black or white or somewhere in-between.
Rather he was talking about a prevailing attitude within this country where men of different races are judged differently for committing the same act.
When the general population looks at gov't programs, be it public housing, head start, food stamps, medicaid, or welfare, they see these as programs for blacks even though more whites use each of them. When asked about Unemployment insurance, or social security, people think more whites get these benefits. Why? Because to get either benefit, you had to be working. That is the institutional racism in this country.
Just look at the Florida gubernatorial campaign, which started in earnest after this week's primaries produced two surprise candidates: a white Republican personally chosen by the president and very liberal black Democrat endorsed by Bernie.
In his very first comments about his opponent, the white guy said: "You know, he is an articulate spokesman for those far-left views and he's a charismatic candidate. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state."
So, in his very first comment, he managed to get in "articulate" and "monkey."
When called on it, naturally he and his people feigned ignorance: How could people even think that? "Articulate" is a compliment! He wasn't calling his opponent a "monkey"! It's "absurd" that anybody could possibly think the white guy was using dog-whistle terms when talking about the black guy!
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When called on it, naturally he and his people feigned ignorance: How could people even think that? "Articulate" is a compliment!
And when Joe Biden said Obama was articulate, clean and bright that was what exactly? http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/
I don't think Biden is racist, and he took gruff for his comments and later apologized. If there is evidence that this politician in Florida has a history of this, then maybe the case, but have not seen that come out yet.
Some people go looking to put racism labels on topics or people for which they disagree. There is real racism out there that cannot be denied, but that doesn't mean overstating or labeling someone for political gain in my view.
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Why are you bringing race into this?
You brought it in with your distinctions of better people. And the Post is far from perfect.
Jockey articulated my point well, but it goes further than that. While the criticisms of character are applied generally to blacks & mental illness applied generally to whites, using mental illness as a general scapegoat stigmatizes the tens of millions of Americans that struggle with real mental illness every year.
Both the media and populace create an image of the mentally ill as deranged killers. This does undue harm to people suffering with anxiety, depression, addiction, bi-polar disorder, and countless other conditions that don't want to hurt anyone.
Words are important. Whether it's on a message board or the Washington Post or everyday conversation, it's important to use the correct words. It's often unintentional, but we should all work to do better.
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Can you explain to me the Washington Post article about this? Is the Washington Post a racist newspaper because they are using a dog whistle? Plain and simple question. I mentioned mental illness because I found it appalling that this man was able to purchase guns with his mental background. That has to change. Why are you bringing race into this? It could be that many of the murders in this town are also the result of mental illness, but I haven't seen as a causation by any experts or the media. However, mental illness is the reason for this mass shooting. Race has nothing to do with it and why you are bringing into this discussion is also appalling.
Note the headline of the Post, tell me where this has anything to do with race. This is a mental illness question - Plain and Simple.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2yux6cg.jpg)
Constant appeal to authority. Someone else used to do this all the time
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And when Joe Biden said Obama was articulate, clean and bright that was what exactly? http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/
I don't think Biden is racist, and he took gruff for his comments and later apologized. If there is evidence that this politician in Florida has a history of this, then maybe the case, but have not seen that come out yet.
Some people go looking to put racism labels on topics or people for which they disagree. There is real racism out there that cannot be denied, but that doesn't mean overstating or labeling someone for political gain in my view.
Biden was stupid for saying that. He was called on it and he apologized. Both before that and long after that, through his words and deeds, he seemed to prove he's not a racist. He put himself in a position where he had to prove himself, and he apparently did.
Let's see what DeSantis does. He opened this can of worms himself. HE did it. I didn't do it, you didn't do it, the media didn't do it.
But really, if you believe that saying "monkey" was an accident, he has some swampland in Florida to sell you, too.
This is Spanky's America. You don't have to wear a hood anymore to carry torches and chant "blood and soil." The leader of the country says those who do that are "some very fine people."
And hey, if blacks object to the way DeSantis used "monkey," whites are there to advise them to just chill.
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You brought it in with your distinctions of better people. And the Post is far from perfect.
Jockey articulated my point well, but it goes further than that. While the criticisms of character are applied generally to blacks & mental illness applied generally to whites, using mental illness as a general scapegoat stigmatizes the tens of millions of Americans that struggle with real mental illness every year.
Both the media and populace create an image of the mentally ill as deranged killers. This does undue harm to people suffering with anxiety, depression, addiction, bi-polar disorder, and countless other conditions that don't want to hurt anyone.
Words are important. Whether it's on a message board or the Washington Post or everyday conversation, it's important to use the correct words. It's often unintentional, but we should all work to do better.
I don't know, Brew. I was on the Board of Directors of a not for profit whose expressed purpose was to destigmatize mental illness and promote healing. In all the time I worked with them I never heard anyone (doctors, clinicians, patients) have a problem with the concept that mental illness was a (the?) major factor in these mass shootings. That doesn't mean, of course, that the handful of mentally ill mass shooters are synonymous with millions of people struggling with mental illness.You're actually the only person I've ever encountered who feels that anyone (let alone the "media and the populace") actually feels that way.
As regards "words have meanings" I couldn't agree more. But you're not interested in their meanings. Your only interested in ascribing meanings based on your own biased perceptions (not just picking on you, we all have biased perceptions). For example "articulate" means intelligent and well spoken - unless a white republican says it in reference to a black man. Then (and only then) it's a "dog whistle", racist, etc. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, a'ina?
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I could be wrong, but I can't recall a white politician ever being called articulate. I'm sure it has happened in the course of American history but it's something that you hear said specifically said about black politicians (and black people in general). The problem with only referring to black people as articulate is that it sends the message that it is a pleasant surprise when a black person is articulate but an expectation when a white person is.
I don't think this is a biased perspective, as pointed out earlier, democrat Joe Biden was criticized for this. It's not just republicans.
This article explains it well.
https://www.theroot.com/he-s-so-articulate-what-that-really-means-1790874985
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I could be wrong, but I can't recall a white politician ever being called articulate. I'm sure it has happened in the course of American history but it's something that you hear said specifically said about black politicians (and black people in general). The problem with only referring to black people as articulate is that it sends the message that it is a pleasant surprise when a black person is articulate but an expectation when a white person is.
I don't think this is a biased perspective, as pointed out earlier, democrat Joe Biden was criticized for this. It's not just republicans.
This article explains it well.
https://www.theroot.com/he-s-so-articulate-what-that-really-means-1790874985
The first person I ever remember considering "articulate" was William F Buckley, jr. - you don't get any "whiter" than him. Other I've used the "a" word to describe have included Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Christopher Hitchens, my college roommate (from Ecuador) and Barack Obama. I didn't take the white guy's articulation for granted nor did I find the brown and black guy's articulation surprising. It was a compliment, a nod to erudition - nothing less, nothing more.
As regards Joe Biden, he was "criticized" very gently. I don't recall anyone pointing a finger, hearing dog whistles and saying he was a racist. That sort of appellation is reserved for pols with an "R" after their names.
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As regards Joe Biden, he was "criticized" very gently. I don't recall anyone pointing a finger, hearing dog whistles and saying he was a racist. That sort of appellation is reserved for pols with an "R" after their names.
Is being called a "moron racist"gentle?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPQQxaiV4AIM-SI.jpg)
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The first person I ever remember considering "articulate" was William F Buckley, jr. - you don't get any "whiter" than him. Other I've used the "a" word to describe have included Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Christopher Hitchens, my college roommate (from Ecuador) and Barack Obama. I didn't take the white guy's articulation for granted nor did I find the brown and black guy's articulation surprising. It was a compliment, a nod to erudition - nothing less, nothing more.
As regards Joe Biden, he was "criticized" very gently. I don't recall anyone pointing a finger, hearing dog whistles and saying he was a racist. That sort of appellation is reserved for pols with an "R" after their names.
The second paragraph is where your bias (like you correctly point out everyone has) is coming out. Biden was criticized and called a racist. The difference is he apologized for it so the media moved on.
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The second paragraph is where your bias (like you correctly point out everyone has) is coming out. Biden was criticized and called a racist. The difference is he apologized for it so the media moved on.
Then candidate Obama and Jesse Jackson almost immediately gave Joe a pass and the controversy was over quickly. If, say, Ted Cruz had said the same thing he's still be paying the price.
By the way, just as I think Joe Biden was inarticulate but not not a racist, I likewise feel that way about the Republican candidate for governor of Florida.
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Then candidate Obama and Jesse Jackson almost immediately gave Joe a pass and the controversy was over quickly. If, say, Ted Cruz had said the same thing he's still be paying the price.
By the way, just as I think Joe Biden was inarticulate but not not a racist, I likewise feel that way about the Republican candidate for governor of Florida.
I'd say Obama gave him a pass. ::)
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By the way, just as I think Joe Biden was inarticulate but not not a racist, I likewise feel that way about the Republican candidate for governor of Florida.
I've not done any digging on this to see if the headline blurbs I saw were accurate but from your response i assume that the reports of DeSantis being an administrator on a facebook page that posts racist content have been shown to be not accurate? If so, i'm with you - anyone can err and our future words and actions will confirm that it was an err. If not, he's both inarticulate and a racist, no question.
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I've not done any digging on this to see if the headline blurbs I saw were accurate but from your response i assume that the reports of DeSantis being an administrator on a facebook page that posts racist content have been shown to be not accurate? If so, i'm with you - anyone can err and our future words and actions will confirm that it was an err. If not, he's both inarticulate and a racist, no question.
naginF - I honestly don't know what you're talking about, but if their is evidence that would convince me DeSantis is a racist I would absolutely change my opinion regarding his remarks.
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naginF - I honestly don't know what you're talking about, but if their is evidence that would convince me DeSantis is a racist I would absolutely change my opinion regarding his remarks.
UUggghh! I actually had to log into Facebook to look into this - it's been at least 2 years since i've done so and i'm going to have a cocktail after this (actually...maybe 'thank you'?).
There were reports that he was an administrator to this excruciatingly stereotypical alt-right Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoNotTreadOnUs/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoNotTreadOnUs/). He's not a current administrator and I didn't see any instance of him posting so may be false. However, Mike Michaels who is the first admin listed has stated that he is an admin on the page https://twitter.com/natijomartinez/status/1034422749949833216/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/natijomartinez/status/1034422749949833216/photo/1).
My guess is that the page members love DeSantis (just search his name on the page, it's clear they do)and that lead to MM bragging he was an admin regardless of if he was or not. Smoke but no fire.
Edit: He was an administrator of that site up until two days ago......therefore must definitely a strong history of racist actions. Also, there are 7 other candidates for house/senate seats that are (5) or up until recently were (2) administrators for this page. That speaks volumes to the positioning for winning in November
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I ache for young people who grow up in these war zones. And I understand the allure of the gang as a way out. But most don't make that bad/wrong choice. I don't think the mentally ill have a choice. That's the difference IMO.
Have you ever considered that many of these individuals growing up in these "war zones" suffer from mental illness because of the conditions, and that a lot of the violence stems from that?
20% of vets that served overseas suffer from major depression or PTSD, because of serving in those environments. That leads to substantially higher instances of difficulties in society and violence.
I'm not accusing you of anything, and understand where you are coming from, but too often people look for a mental health excuse for caucasian shooters, but never consider that people living in these "war zones" are also suffering, largely because we do not understand things like PTSD or major depression and how it relates to their environment.
The fact that we don't look for those reasons is a large example of hidden racial biases.
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Have you ever considered that many of these individuals growing up in these "war zones" suffer from mental illness because of the conditions, and that a lot of the violence stems from that?
20% of vets that served overseas suffer from major depression or PTSD, because of serving in those environments. That leads to substantially higher instances of difficulties in society and violence.
I'm not accusing you of anything, and understand where you are coming from, but too often people look for a mental health excuse for caucasian shooters, but never consider that people living in these "war zones" are also suffering, largely because we do not understand things like PTSD or major depression and how it relates to their environment.
The fact that we don't look for those reasons is a large example of hidden racial biases.
I'm sure some of the young men in those war zones suffer from various mental health issues. But my guess is that a higher % of them see gangs as a way of life, a substitute for family, a possible way out, etc. IOW, most of them have multiple mitigating circumstances contributing to their poor choices. Powerful circumstances, yes, but IMO not as powerful as debilitating mental illness.
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Let's assume DeSantis isn't a moron. I'm going to give him that: He's not a moron.
If he isn't a moron, he knows that Biden using "articulate" the way he did got Biden in trouble. We can argue all day if it got him in "enough" trouble, but it definitely got him in some trouble.
Also, if he isn't a moron, he knows that black folks look at being characterized as "articulate" the exact way TAMU explained.
Finally, assuming DeSantis isn't a TOTAL moron, he knows that every time a white person uses "monkey" to describe anything remotely relating to a black person, he is asking for big, big, big trouble.
I don't care if "monkey it up" is a real phrase people use -- I had never heard it, but I'll take the word of those who say they have. That's not the point. Just don't use it (if you're not a moron).
You know what else is a real word? Niggardly. It means cheap. But everybody who isn't a moron knows not to use it. There are plenty of other ways to say "cheap." Similarly, there are plenty of ways DeSantis could have claimed the black guy would mess things up without saying "monkey it up."
So, assuming DeSantis isn't a moron and knows all of those things, he probably is a racist -- or at least knowingly was appealing to the racists whose votes he needs.
Sorry, but moron or racist are the only two choices I see here.
And hey, maybe I was wrong to assume DeSantis is not a moron. I allow that could be true.
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Then candidate Obama and Jesse Jackson almost immediately gave Joe a pass and the controversy was over quickly. If, say, Ted Cruz had said the same thing he's still be paying the price.
By the way, just as I think Joe Biden was inarticulate but not not a racist, I likewise feel that way about the Republican candidate for governor of Florida.
Well considering that Obama is who Biden made the comment about, he should be able to give him a pass. Honestly, the interaction is a great example of how these conversations should go.
1. Person says or does something unintentionally racist (which is something that every human being does on a fairly regular basis)
2. It is pointed out to said person that something they said or did was racist.
3. Person apologizes.
4. Other person forgives. (If the comment or action was directed at someone)
5. First person doesn't make the same mistake again.
If you want to know the key to getting the media to move on from something like this, the above is the winning formula. However, there are many who get stuck at point #3 whether it's their pride, fear of upsetting their base, or an inability to see it from a different viewpoint, many are unwilling to apologize. That's when the media will get on somebody.
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I'm sure some of the young men in those war zones suffer from various mental health issues. But my guess is that a higher % of them see gangs as a way of life, a substitute for family, a possible way out, etc. IOW, most of them have multiple mitigating circumstances contributing to their poor choices. Powerful circumstances, yes, but IMO not as powerful as debilitating mental illness.
Fair enough.
My point would be that the symptoms and actions surrounding the Jacksonville shooter are similar and scope to that of an individual with addiction problems (in his case video games) and emotional issues stemming from a broken home. He comes from a background where the family could seek mental health help. We look at him and see a kid with mental health issues. The mental health is the problem.
Inner city youth that exhibit the same, are more likely to have addiction problems (drugs), and as a result see jail time, or end up in gangs. Those families do not have access to mental health help, so they get branded as unruly, criminal youth, and the kid is the problem.
In one case the violent, unruly behavior is deemed a mental health problem, and they get psychiatric help and then are released. In the other case, it is viewed as criminal activity and they are thrown in jail, and given no help, rather a criminal record. The reality is both are mental health problems.
We do not treat them the same, often strictly because of their background. Obviously this is not universally true, and there are all shades of this, but the fact is often our perspective is colored in bias.
And to clarify, this is not necessarily a racial issue, it just often is because of historic inequalities. If the Jacksonville shooter had killed two and shot several others in a drug deal gone bad in the Jacksonville ghetto, we wouldn't be talking about "mental health" or new "gun laws"...it wouldn't have even made the news. It would have been regarded as senseless inner city violence. That is bias nonetheless.
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I don't know, Brew. I was on the Board of Directors of a not for profit whose expressed purpose was to destigmatize mental illness and promote healing. In all the time I worked with them I never heard anyone (doctors, clinicians, patients) have a problem with the concept that mental illness was a (the?) major factor in these mass shootings. That doesn't mean, of course, that the handful of mentally ill mass shooters are synonymous with millions of people struggling with mental illness.You're actually the only person I've ever encountered who feels that anyone (let alone the "media and the populace") actually feels that way.
I came to that belief after listening to multiple conversations between individuals that suffer with mental illness and are sick of how that stigma is immediately applied in these situations.
As regards "words have meanings" I couldn't agree more. But you're not interested in their meanings. Your only interested in ascribing meanings based on your own biased perceptions (not just picking on you, we all have biased perceptions). For example "articulate" means intelligent and well spoken - unless a white republican says it in reference to a black man. Then (and only then) it's a "dog whistle", racist, etc. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, a'ina?
No, you're definitely wrong about this. It's not my biased perceptions that I care about, it's the victims I care about. I make a point to listen and take in the views of people different from myself to better understand those perceptions.
The last people in America who need to worry about hurt feelings are white cis males like me. Voices like mine have no trouble being heard and never have. It's minorites, women, LBGTQ, those with physical and mental illness, and other voices that have been suppressed for centuries by white cis males that we should be listening to. Those are the biased perceptions I'm concerned about.
Certainly not white guys like me. We've never had it bad in America.
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The last people in America who need to worry about hurt feelings are white cis males like me. Voices like mine have no trouble being heard and never have. It's minorites, women, LBGTQ, those with physical and mental illness, and other voices that have been suppressed for centuries by white cis males that we should be listening to. Those are the biased perceptions I'm concerned about.
Certainly not white guys like me. We've never had it bad in America.
You're on a roll, brewski. This is a perfect summation IMHO.
Next time I get to Milwaukee -- hopefully to watch a game this upcoming winter -- we gotta grab a ... well ... brewski!
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Let's assume DeSantis isn't a moron. I'm going to give him that: He's not a moron.
If he isn't a moron, he knows that Biden using "articulate" the way he did got Biden in trouble. We can argue all day if it got him in "enough" trouble, but it definitely got him in some trouble.
Also, if he isn't a moron, he knows that black folks look at being characterized as "articulate" the exact way TAMU explained.
Finally, assuming DeSantis isn't a TOTAL moron, he knows that every time a white person uses "monkey" to describe anything remotely relating to a black person, he is asking for big, big, big trouble.
I don't care if "monkey it up" is a real phrase people use -- I had never heard it, but I'll take the word of those who say they have. That's not the point. Just don't use it (if you're not a moron).
You know what else is a real word? Niggardly. It means cheap. But everybody who isn't a moron knows not to use it. There are plenty of other ways to say "cheap." Similarly, there are plenty of ways DeSantis could have claimed the black guy would mess things up without saying "monkey it up."
So, assuming DeSantis isn't a moron and knows all of those things, he probably is a racist -- or at least knowingly was appealing to the racists whose votes he needs.
Sorry, but moron or racist are the only two choices I see here.
And hey, maybe I was wrong to assume DeSantis is not a moron. I allow that could be true.
Only 2 choices? So Biden is also either a racist or a moron. You wouldn't assume Obama would choose a moron for vice president because that would be racist. But if you assume Obama chose a racist as his VP wouldn't that assumption also be racist? It's a tangled web we weave when every utterance has to be filtered through the thought police.
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Only 2 choices? So Biden is also either a racist or a moron. You wouldn't assume Obama would choose a moron for vice president because that would be racist. But if you assume Obama chose a racist as his VP wouldn't that assumption also be racist? It's a tangled web we weave when every utterance has to be filtered through the thought police.
You're missing the key difference again. Biden owned up and apologized. People can make mistakes and be forgiven for them. That is just being a normal human being. It's when someone digs in and refuses to acknowledge how their words or actions impacted someone else that you that you stumble into moronic or racist territory.
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You're missing the key difference again. Biden owned up and apologized. People can make mistakes and be forgiven for them. That is just being a normal human being. It's when someone digs in and refuses to acknowledge how their words or actions impacted someone else that you that you stumble into moronic or racist territory.
Thanks, TAMU. Lenny is smart enough to know exactly what I meant.
I like the Onion's headline: Ron DeSantis Clarifies That 'Monkey' Comment Was Intended As Subtle Enough Dog Whistle To Get Away With
And because nobody can make this shyte up, the always dopey and divisive Laura "Shut Up And Dribble" Ingraham said it's DeSantis should be demanding an apology from Gillum.
As usual, white men just can't catch a break here in 'Merica.
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Thanks, TAMU. Lenny is smart enough to know exactly what I meant.
I like the Onion's headline: Ron DeSantis Clarifies That 'Monkey' Comment Was Intended As Subtle Enough Dog Whistle To Get Away With
And because nobody can make this shyte up, the always dopey and divisive Laura "Shut Up And Dribble" Ingraham said it's DeSantis should be demanding an apology from Gillum.
As usual, white men just can't catch a break here in 'Merica.
Mike, your "shut up and dribble" reference brought to mind a new show on HBO. It's hosted by John Stewart and is called The Shop - simply because it takes place in a barbershop. Future episodes will take place in barbershops around the country.
The 1st episode had Lebron, Draymond, Snoop, OBJ, Michael Bennett and a few others discussing race in America. It should be required watching for every American. If you get a chance to watch it, let me know what you think.
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Mike, your "shut up and dribble" reference brought to mind a new show on HBO. It's hosted by John Stewart and is called The Shop - simply because it takes place in a barbershop. Future episodes will take place in barbershops around the country.
The 1st episode had Lebron, Draymond, Snoop, OBJ, Michael Bennett and a few others discussing race in America. It should be required watching for every American. If you get a chance to watch it, let me know what you think.
Saw that it was on but haven't had a chance to watch it yet. I will.
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I like the Onion's headline: Ron DeSantis Clarifies That 'Monkey' Comment Was Intended As Subtle Enough Dog Whistle To Get Away With"
While it's meant to be satire, I think that's actually the true intent. DeSantis doesn't want to talk about issues because that's a losing argument. Instead, make a racially charged statement, deny the racial intent, drag the whole campaign into a discussion on race rather that things to actually improve the lives of Floridians. It's the same thing the White House has been doing for 2 years. Say something racist, deny it was supposed to be racist, and the entire discussion turns from the issues at hand to "is it racist?" Then they never get back to the actual issue.
FWIW, Gillum responded perfectly. Watch from about the 6:00 mark. Address the topic, call it what it is, pivot back to the issues that impact his voters.
https://youtu.be/12OgIezJK1s
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You brought it in with your distinctions of better people. And the Post is far from perfect.
Jockey articulated my point well, but it goes further than that. While the criticisms of character are applied generally to blacks & mental illness applied generally to whites, using mental illness as a general scapegoat stigmatizes the tens of millions of Americans that struggle with real mental illness every year.
Both the media and populace create an image of the mentally ill as deranged killers. This does undue harm to people suffering with anxiety, depression, addiction, bi-polar disorder, and countless other conditions that don't want to hurt anyone.
Words are important. Whether it's on a message board or the Washington Post or everyday conversation, it's important to use the correct words. It's often unintentional, but we should all work to do better.
Facts are also important. The man that shot up the Madden tournament was mentally ill, which is what I stated. Has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with race. If someone of a different race also shot up the Madden tournament and had his history of mental illness, I would have said the same thing.
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But really, if you believe that saying "monkey" was an accident, he has some swampland in Florida to sell you, too.
I read the entire quote, I do not think there was any malice there. No history either. Some people go looking for stuff and for good reason at times. This isn't one of them.
If I had a nickel every time my parents said to stop monkeying around, or similar terms. It meant stop screwing around in my day. I will be the first to condemn him if that was intention or meant the way some are saying. Or if a history exists, but on the surface this feels like major backfire to me for those pushing this.
The last people in America who need to worry about hurt feelings are white cis males like me.
Certainly not white guys like me. We've never had it bad in America.
Without looking it up, what does that mean?
Careful not to speak for an entire group of people. Individuals of all stripes can incur the ravages of man.
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Constant appeal to authority. Someone else used to do this all the time
This place is a forum of the impossible. MU82 demands facts or backup. That is provided, now you condemn it. Would you two get on the same page. :D
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Individuals of all stripes can incur the ravages of man.
Is that the inscription on the gates at your White Lives Matter Ranch in Idaho?
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Only 2 choices? So Biden is also either a racist or a moron. You wouldn't assume Obama would choose a moron for vice president because that would be racist. But if you assume Obama chose a racist as his VP wouldn't that assumption also be racist? It's a tangled web we weave when every utterance has to be filtered through the thought police.
IMO Biden is neither, but man, he is a human gaffe machine.
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I read the entire quote, I do not think there was any malice there. No history either. Some people go looking for stuff and for good reason at times. This isn't one of them.
If I had a nickel every time my parents said to stop monkeying around, or similar terms. It meant stop screwing around in my day. I will be the first to condemn him if that was intention or meant the way some are saying. Or if a history exists, but on the surface this feels like major backfire to me for those pushing this.
Without looking it up, what does that mean?
Careful not to speak for an entire group of people. Individuals of all stripes can incur the ravages of man.
Ton of history an association.....
UUggghh! I actually had to log into Facebook to look into this - it's been at least 2 years since i've done so and i'm going to have a cocktail after this (actually...maybe 'thank you'?).
There were reports that he was an administrator to this excruciatingly stereotypical alt-right Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoNotTreadOnUs/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoNotTreadOnUs/). He's not a current administrator and I didn't see any instance of him posting so may be false. However, Mike Michaels who is the first admin listed has stated that he is an admin on the page https://twitter.com/natijomartinez/status/1034422749949833216/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/natijomartinez/status/1034422749949833216/photo/1).
My guess is that the page members love DeSantis (just search his name on the page, it's clear they do)and that lead to MM bragging he was an admin regardless of if he was or not. Smoke but no fire.
Edit: He was an administrator of that site up until two days ago......therefore must definitely a strong history of racist actions. Also, there are 7 other candidates for house/senate seats that are (5) or up until recently were (2) administrators for this page. That speaks volumes to the positioning for winning in November
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Facts are also important. The man that shot up the Madden tournament was mentally ill, which is what I stated. Has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with race. If someone of a different race also shot up the Madden tournament and had his history of mental illness, I would have said the same thing.
Maybe if you hadn't stereotyped shooters in Chicago as inferior, you could pull this off. But when you open with that, it's hard to believe this is an ingenuous take.
Without looking it up, what does that mean?
Careful not to speak for an entire group of people. Individuals of all stripes can incur the ravages of man.
What does what mean? Cis? It means identifying as the gender you were assigned at birth.
And my statement was not about individuals, it was about white men in general, who as a general segment of the population have never faced oppression in this country.