After two forgettable seasons in Detroit, Henry Ellenson is approaching his make or break 3rd season. Unfortunately, his summer league performance has been more of the same. Averaging 12 points a game on 16.5 shots. 25% from the field and 12% from 3, and over 6 TOs a game. NBA future looks bleak for the kid. Always had a good looking stroke but it doesnt matter if the ball doesnt go in the basket. Yet hes always remained a chucker. Would like to see him work more to the interior, his offense 15 feet and in was always impressive, yet rarely seen.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 14, 2018, 11:44:39 AM
After two forgettable seasons in Detroit, Henry Ellenson is approaching his make or break 3rd season. Unfortunately, his summer league performance has been more of the same. Averaging 12 points a game on 16.5 shots. 25% from the field and 12% from 3, and over 6 TOs a game. NBA future looks bleak for the kid. Always had a good looking stroke but it doesnt matter if the ball doesnt go in the basket. Yet hes always remained a chucker. Would like to see him work more to the interior, his offense 15 feet and in was always impressive, yet rarely seen.
I think in the league he'd be defended by guys he didn't have to deal with in college (inside 15 feet). Doesn't seem like he's got the kind of hops to get away with it.
Henry is a perfect example of a kid picking the right school where he was highlighted with a weak roster. He just does not have enough lateral quickness or jumping
ability to play at the next level. But in saying that he made the right decision. He got 3 years of a guaranteed contract worth 5.3 million so the worse that happens he goes to Europe for 8 years and maybe he will be 30. Should have $3M in the bank after next year and if he invests wisely, he will never have to worry about money. Not
so bad.
Dont disagree with what u say DC, especially about financial future, but there are plenty of guys with slow lateral quickness in the NBA. One that just retired from Brown Deer and many others. Difference really is that when they shot it it went in.
Henrys ill advised chucking as a Freshman drove me nuts as did Wojos continuous encouragement of it along with his belief that he would soon begin making a higher percentage. Henry with the ball in the wide post orelbow or ft line was deadly. At 3 point line was a disaster. It never did improve at MU and it hasnt in the NBA either.
Regrettable outcome for Henry but not surprising. Would have more years at MU helped? I will leave that to the experts to discuss.
Quote from: Class71 on July 14, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
Regrettable outcome for Henry but not surprising. Would have more years at MU helped? I will leave that to the experts to discuss.
The problem with leaving early is you only get 3 yrs to prove yourself. For guys like Kevin Knox or Kevin Durant its not an issue. For a guy like Ellenson its hard to argue that another year or two would not have better prepared him to be able to make more of an initial impact and be a better player after those 3 years are up. Ie. would he be a better player at 25 than 23?
Quote from: Class71 on July 14, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
Regrettable outcome for Henry but not surprising. Would have more years at MU helped? I will leave that to the experts to discuss.
I'm of the opinion that Henry was smart to go when he did. It seems his shooting still hasn't really been good.
What if he stayed 2 or 3 more years and his shooting numbers still didn't improve? His stock probably goes down as he gets older and numbers don't get better.
His appeal was that he was a near 7 footer who could possibly score from 3 levels. Unfortunately, he hasn't really proven he can do it.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 14, 2018, 01:42:49 PM
The problem with leaving early is you only get 3 yrs to prove yourself. For guys like Kevin Knox or Kevin Durant its not an issue. For a guy like Ellenson its hard to argue that another year or two would not have better prepared him to be able to make more of an initial impact and be a better player after those 3 years are up. Ie. would he be a better player at 25 than 23?
Probably would have agreed with you. Like to think if he had been on a better team his sophomore year, he would have learned more and been limited to what he did best. However, money talks.
Henry probably is a case of too many people reading hyper-inflated press clippings. He was good but from the beginning one had to wonder whether he was as good as his press clippings said. Candidly, he's probably not and the scouts badly overrated him.
Too much of what he competed against was the Northwoods League in Rice Lake, where you're playing such basketball powerhouses as Shell Lake, Spooner, Minong, Chetek and, if you're lucky and there's money left in the budget, Eau Claire!
Agree on the relative lack of athleticism.
Whenever I saw Henry play I always thought to myself "is he flat footed?"
Quote from: Eldon on July 14, 2018, 02:15:58 PM
Agree on the relative lack of athleticism.
Whenever I saw Henry play I always thought to myself "is he flat footed?"
I would guess 75% of major D1 bball players are flat footed
I do not see how staying two more years in college would of made him any better than playing the two years he played in the g-league. However, I did wonder how good MU would of been when I was watching Wagner against Villanova. It was not hard to envision Ellenson being similar to what Wagner was. Last year MU with Ellenson at center instead of Heldt would of been a very interesting team to watch.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 14, 2018, 11:44:39 AM
After two forgettable seasons in Detroit, Henry Ellenson is approaching his make or break 3rd season. Unfortunately, his summer league performance has been more of the same. Averaging 12 points a game on 16.5 shots. 25% from the field and 12% from 3, and over 6 TOs a game. NBA future looks bleak for the kid. Always had a good looking stroke but it doesnt matter if the ball doesnt go in the basket. Yet hes always remained a chucker. Would like to see him work more to the interior, his offense 15 feet and in was always impressive, yet rarely seen.
Lookin' like his next contract may only bee $28 mil/4 yrs, hey?
Quote from: bilsu on July 14, 2018, 05:56:05 PM
Last year MU with Ellenson at center instead of Heldt would of been a very interesting team to watch.
If, and it's a big if, Henry and his people would have consented to him playing center (or at least inside), yes - but I doubt that was ever going happen.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 14, 2018, 06:55:28 PM
Lookin' like his next contract may only bee $28 mil/4 yrs, hey?
i hope so, but not to sound smug err anything, $3 mil at age twenty-something really isn't going to go very far. someone will want him for something-from everything i've seen and heard, he's a good ole wholesome, sharp guy
God I love reading this from way back when.
#bansultan
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 06:46:06 PM »
Quote
Quote from: jonny09 on December 05, 2015, 06:39:31 PM
Henry is not ready for the NBA. Needs to improve his defense and strength. He would be a permanent fixture on the bench. Granted, these are things he can certainly work towards.
Henry would get minutes. Maybe 12-15, but he would be paid and getting coached up in the process. A #8 pick in the draft isn't expected to be a super star by any means.
Quote from: jonny09 on July 14, 2018, 09:55:45 PM
God I love reading this from way back when.
#bansultan
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 06:46:06 PM »
Quote
Quote from: jonny09 on December 05, 2015, 06:39:31 PM
Henry is not ready for the NBA. Needs to improve his defense and strength. He would be a permanent fixture on the bench. Granted, these are things he can certainly work towards.
Henry would get minutes. Maybe 12-15, but he would be paid and getting coached up in the process. A #8 pick in the draft isn't expected to be a super star by any means.
You love seeing a 19 year old kid go on to fail in his profession? Sad.
So your point is he should've stayed in school, had his deficiencies exposed for a longer period of time, and never get an NBA paycheck?
Seems like Hank made the decision he needed to make.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on July 14, 2018, 02:08:23 PM
I'm of the opinion that Henry was smart to go when he did. It seems his shooting still hasn't really been good.
What if he stayed 2 or 3 more years and his shooting numbers still didn't improve? His stock probably goes down as he gets older and numbers don't get better.
His appeal was that he was a near 7 footer who could possibly score from 3 levels. Unfortunately, he hasn't really proven he can do it.
Spot on.
Take the NBA paycheck and get the coaching and practice competition needed to see if you have what it takes. If you do, you're set for life. If you don't, you have several mill in the bank, a chance to make plenty of money in Europe if you want to, etc. You can always go back to college.
We'll never know if staying would have been better for him. What we do know for certain is that he will have made millions of dollars while getting to a level in his chosen profession that few do.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 14, 2018, 09:27:33 PM
i hope so, but not to sound smug err anything, $3 mil at age twenty-something really isn't going to go very far. someone will want him for something-from everything i've seen and heard, he's a good ole wholesome, sharp guy
$3 million at age twenty-something isn't going to go very far?
What the f*ck are you on?
Quote from: jonny09 on July 14, 2018, 09:55:45 PM
God I love reading this from way back when.
#bansultan
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 06:46:06 PM »
Quote
Quote from: jonny09 on December 05, 2015, 06:39:31 PM
Henry is not ready for the NBA. Needs to improve his defense and strength. He would be a permanent fixture on the bench. Granted, these are things he can certainly work towards.
Henry would get minutes. Maybe 12-15, but he would be paid and getting coached up in the process. A #8 pick in the draft isn't expected to be a super star by any means.
Yep. Looks like I overestimated his impact. But I think I was more on the mark than this guy who "truly believed" that JJJ was going to be a first round pick.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40267.msg524758#msg524758
It's his mom's fault.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 15, 2018, 01:35:08 AM
$3 million at age twenty-something isn't going to go very far?
What the f*ck are you on?
Yep.
Plus, it's not as if he will stop making a living the day he stops playing basketball.
Quote from: MU82 on July 15, 2018, 09:42:49 AM
Yep.
Plus, it's not as if he will stop making a living the day he stops playing basketball.
Right, when NBA is done, he can play anywhere for money.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 15, 2018, 01:35:08 AM
$3 million at age twenty-something isn't going to go very far?
What the f*ck are you on?
The average American household makes less than $60,000 per year, so that money would get you about 50 years of middle class living. If you manage it wisely, that money would get a single person a long, long way.
Personally, I think Henry's pro game has gone about as I expected. As to his 'one and done' decision, I think we mostly saw that coming in. Look, Henry's brief stint here at MU will always be remembered for providing MU nation with a brief relief from what was an otherwise forgettable early Wojo rebuilding era. Each side got what they needed out of it. And then each side moved on. Of all of MU's NBA players, I'm most indifferent about Henry. A MU rental. I wish him the best.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 09:58:46 AM
The average American household makes less than $60,000 per year
#FakeNews #lies
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 15, 2018, 10:15:34 AM
#FakeNews #lies
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-census-median-income-2017-9
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 10:18:03 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-census-median-income-2017-9
Why are you linking that? You said AVERAGE income. That's median. The median income is significantly lower than the average income.
Your claim was patently false and wrong.
#FakeNews
#lies
Quote from: jsglow on July 15, 2018, 09:59:57 AM
Personally, I think Henry's pro game has gone about as I expected. As to his 'one and done' decision, I think we mostly saw that coming in. Look, Henry's brief stint here at MU will always be remembered for providing MU nation with a brief relief from what was an otherwise forgettable early Wojo rebuilding era. Each side got what they needed out of it. And then each side moved on. Of all of MU's NBA players, I'm most indifferent about Henry. A MU rental. I wish him the best.
Agreed, and if our forgettable portion was one year (two if you include Buzz's last year) it's not that bad. Henry's time here was fun, even if we didn't reach the heights we hoped. I'd rather see him succeed, but I don't feel as vested in him as say Crowder, Butler, DJO, Wes, or future possible pros like Markus, Sam, and Cain.
Seems like HE made the right decision. It wasn't hard to see he didn't have the lift, quickness, or shooting. I think we can agree some time in Europe is pending. I wouldn't rule out a second NBA stint after Europe time.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 15, 2018, 10:15:34 AM
#FakeNews #lies
Most recently available data:
'The U.S. Census Bureau reported in September 2017 that real median household income was $59,039 in 2016.'
Quote from: jsglow on July 15, 2018, 11:07:38 AM
Most recently available data:
'The U.S. Census Bureau reported in September 2017 that real median household income was $59,039 in 2016.'
Not relevant. We're talking AVERAGE, not median.
#FakeNews
#Lies
Median= half above, half below
Average= combining all and dividing by the number being included.
As it pertains to income, the average in America is far higher than the median due to all the billionaires.
Quote from: tower912 on July 15, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
Median= half above, half below
Average= combining all and dividing by the number being included.
As it pertains to income, the average in America is far higher than the median due to all the billionaires.
That the average is higher is actually a worse statistic for anyone that doesn't think we have extreme income disparity in this country.
Naturally.
Did Henry hit for 21 last night or was I dreaming?
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 15, 2018, 10:22:32 AM
Why are you linking that? You said AVERAGE income. That's median. The median income is significantly lower than the average income.
Your claim was patently false and wrong.
#FakeNews
#lies
That's not what brew said at all JB. He said average american household. In my mind that meant that he meant 1/2 households better by number, 1/2 worse. Of course those that are better can be way, way better. And now that brew has even come back to clarify exactly what he meant to say, you still won't let it go. Seriously dude, go look in the mirror for once.
Pistons vs Lakers Today 5:00 CT ESPN.
I think Sam Hauser is a better all around player than Henry, but what do I know.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on July 15, 2018, 02:43:02 PM
I think Sam Hauser is a better all around player than Henry, but what do I know.
That the Beauty of Scoop's, we see what We see and post our observations.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 15, 2018, 11:36:42 AM
Not relevant. We're talking AVERAGE, not median.
#FakeNews
#Lies
You really like to complain a lot, don't you? I'm sorry if my initial post was misleading. Bottom line, the MEDIAN family based on current dollars would be able to sustain themselves for decades on $3M.
Both measures of central tendency
And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 03:30:20 PM
And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.
That's assuming Henry is living with that type of plan or investing as opposed to hitting up fancy clubs, living in a massive house and putting a lot of that 3million toward that stuff.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 15, 2018, 10:22:32 AM
Why are you linking that? You said AVERAGE income. That's median. The median income is significantly lower than the average income.
Your claim was patently false and wrong.
#FakeNews
#lies
You're 100% wrong. There are many types of averages. Median is an average. So is mean (which you are calling average as that is what lay people think). There is also mode.
In addition there are several types of different weighted averages.
For a person that harps on stats so much, you apparently don't understand some very basic terms.
This.....is getting good.
Nerds arguing over nerd stuff.
Henry with 15 points and three assists at half time this afternoon.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 09:58:46 AM
The average American household makes less than $60,000 per year, so that money would get you about 50 years of middle class living. If you manage it wisely, that money would get a single person a long, long way.
$3 million at 60k per year is 50 yrs of income. Oh lord who is giving u financial advice.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 14, 2018, 09:27:33 PM
i hope so, but not to sound smug err anything, $3 mil at age twenty-something really isn't going to go very far. someone will want him for something-from everything i've seen and heard, he's a good ole wholesome, sharp guy
Let's not forget this is what started the debate. If HE is an idiot and blows through his money, if he spends instead of investing, if numerous different what ifs, sure the money could be gone quick.
If he's not stupid, invests well, and lives within his means, that money could easily last decades, even after taxes.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 04:35:47 PM
Let's not forget this is what started the debate. If HE is an idiot and blows through his money, if he spends instead of investing, if numerous different what ifs, sure the money could be gone quick.
If he's not stupid, invests well, and lives within his means, that money could easily last decades, even after taxes.
To everybody, Henry will be making a living somewhere at 22 years of age, if not the NBA, he will be great in Europe, so if he is smart, he will have even more money
when he retires at between 30-35, life for him will be good, most college kids are in debt after college, he has at least a $3M head start. The worst case, he goes back
to school, which he should be doing to get in the coaching field someday or whatever his interests are.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 04:35:47 PM
Let's not forget this is what started the debate. If HE is an idiot and blows through his money, if he spends instead of investing, if numerous different what ifs, sure the money could be gone quick.
If he's not stupid, invests well, and lives within his means, that money could easily last decades, even after taxes.
He should invest in restaurants. That's a good, long term investment strategy for ex-athletes.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 15, 2018, 05:49:56 PM
He should invest in restaurants. That's a good, long term investment strategy for ex-athletes.
8-Twelve MVP Bar and Grill?
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 15, 2018, 05:49:56 PM
He should invest in restaurants. That's a good, long term investment strategy for ex-athletes.
I hear he is a silent partner in the Norske Nook in Rice Lake.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 03:30:20 PM
And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.
The only thing wrong with this is the assumption that Henry has $3,000,000.
Who knows how much he has actually saved? He could be broke for all we know.
Quote from: bilsu on July 15, 2018, 06:03:37 PM
The only thing wrong with this is the assumption that Henry has $3,000,000.
Who knows how much he has actually saved? He could be broke for all we know.
How much went to his agent?
Quote from: bilsu on July 15, 2018, 06:03:37 PM
The only thing wrong with this is the assumption that Henry has $3,000,000.
Who knows how much he has actually saved? He could be broke for all we know.
But that's not the point. The point is that $3M is a lot of money and even if you are in your early 20s it can last you a long time if you aren't a dumbass. If he hasn't been financially responsible, he may be broke already, but that doesn't change that the amount of money he was guaranteed on that first contract is enough to last a long time if you aren't stupid about it.
Quote from: Class71 on July 14, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
Regrettable outcome for Henry but not surprising. Would have more years at MU helped? I will leave that to the experts to discuss.
No. Worse coaching. Worse facilities, stricter practice laws. No player improves more at the college level then the pro. It's a stupid myth.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 14, 2018, 09:27:33 PM
i hope so, but not to sound smug err anything, $3 mil at age twenty-something really isn't going to go very far. someone will want him for something-from everything i've seen and heard, he's a good ole wholesome, sharp guy
What world do you live in that 3 million isn't going to last a 22 year old? I would literally murder jsglow for 3 million (beware)
Quote from: BagpipingHurler on July 15, 2018, 03:40:18 PM
That's assuming Henry is living with that type of plan or investing as opposed to hitting up fancy clubs, living in a massive house and putting a lot of that 3million toward that stuff.
thank you bags-that was exactly what i meant. now don't anyone take this the wrong way, but he could very easily live in a place like rice lake forever on that money. it would be a great way to live-hunt, fish and make beef jerky in his masterbuilt smoker. let's just say, as i alluded to somewhat in my post-HE is a sharp guy. first of all, he could stand to make some good coin in europe. he will meet a lot of people along the way(networking). and someone will want a guy like HE within their business, whatever it may be
Quote from: real chili 83 on July 15, 2018, 06:02:54 PM
I hear he is a silent partner in the Norske Nook in Rice Lake.
actually, if i was a partner, i'd want HE to be a loud and proud owner of the norske, eyn'a? more pies for my friends ;D
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 15, 2018, 07:36:11 PM
actually, if i was a partner, i'd want HE to be a loud and proud owner of the norske, eyn'a? more pies for my friends ;D
Afternoon pie????
Easy Keefe.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 15, 2018, 07:33:36 PM
thank you bags-that was exactly what i meant. now don't anyone take this the wrong way, but he could very easily live in a place like rice lake forever on that money. it would be a great way to live-hunt, fish and make beef jerky in his masterbuilt smoker. let's just say, as i alluded to somewhat in my post-HE is a sharp guy. first of all, he could stand to make some good coin in europe. he will meat a lot of people along the way(networking). and someone will want a guy like HE within their business, whatever it may be
What exactly do you think Henry will be doing again?
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 03:04:36 PM
You really like to complain a lot, don't you? I'm sorry if my initial post was misleading. Bottom line, the MEDIAN family based on current dollars would be able to sustain themselves for decades on $3M.
Complaining and proving people wrong has been his thing lately. His posts have become mostly unreadable lately after years of me finding them informative.
Having said that, I don't really add much either.
200k feels kind of average these days.....
I guess it is al lin your perspective and life-style.....
Quote from: burger on July 15, 2018, 08:23:07 PM
200k feels kind of average these days.....
I guess it is al lin your perspective and life-style.....
That's part of the problem with our country. People in the top 5-10% think they're middle class.
Quote from: burger on July 15, 2018, 08:23:07 PM
200k feels kind of average these days.....
I guess it is al lin your perspective and life-style.....
....yeah....no.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on July 14, 2018, 02:08:23 PM
I'm of the opinion that Henry was smart to go when he did. It seems his shooting still hasn't really been good.
What if he stayed 2 or 3 more years and his shooting numbers still didn't improve? His stock probably goes down as he gets older and numbers don't get better.
Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago. It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be. Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for. Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on
How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Making sure
I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture. Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc. I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship". The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early. Now its not about being desperate. EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse. Or for that matter it might have gotten better. He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them. But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on July 15, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago. It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be. Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for. Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Making sure I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture. Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc. I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship". The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early. Now its not about being desperate. EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse. Or for that matter it might have gotten better. He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them. But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.
Expand beyond sports and you have America today.
Quote from: 4everCrean on July 15, 2018, 11:55:59 PM
Expand beyond sports and you have America today.
Yes sir, on all sides, too.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on July 15, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago. It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be. Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for. Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Making sure I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture. Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc. I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship". The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early. Now its not about being desperate. EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse. Or for that matter it might have gotten better. He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them. But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.
I hear what ur saying but $5 million is life changing and is almost insane to pass up for any reason. The only way, as i stated, that i thought it could have made sense to stay is that it delays that 3 year clock. As in is he possibly better to secure that next contract at 25 than he is at 23? Yet another poster correctly points out that after his junior season if he was the same bad shooter as he was after his freshman year does he get the $5 million in the first place?? Tough situation.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on July 15, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago. It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be. Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for. Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Making sure I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture. Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc. I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship". The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early. Now its not about being desperate. EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse. Or for that matter it might have gotten better. He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them. But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.
It's always been about extracting money for sports ownership, so it's a little bit weird to believe athletes should continue to pretend that pro sports isn't big business and ignore their earnings potential while their bosses laugh all the way to the bank.
Look, if the question is whether Henry Ellenson should have stayed, there are two ways to look at it.
HECK YEAH, he should have stayed. If he had stayed even one more year, Marquette would have been a Top 15 team and we likely would have gone deep in the NCAA. Henry gave us something we were lacking and from our standpoint, it would have been a major building block in getting us back to where we were when the Hillbilly was here.
If we look at Ellenson from a Marquette perspective, this probably was the worst early departure since Chones or Lucas.
NO WAY -- The money was great. Even after agents, taxes and assorted payments to hangers on, he could well be set for life. He wasn't going to get much better playing college ball in the Marquette system. He didn't seem to value a college education and the reality was that he was not good enough to get the same money once the full extent of his weaknesses were exposed. He was a very good college player but probably not a particularly good pro player. If the NBA was crazy enough to sign him for what they did, Godspeed young Henry!
The entire debate on Henry Ellenson goes back to these two positions. We either look at the situation through blue and gold glasses and from our perspective, or from his. I've yet to read one substantial argument (including some I made at the time Henry left) that convincingly would suggest another year at Marquette would have made him a better pro player.
Quote from: dgies9156 on July 16, 2018, 06:22:01 AM
Look, if the question is whether Henry Ellenson should have stayed, there are two ways to look at it.
If we look at Ellenson from a Marquette perspective, this probably was the worst early departure since Chones or Lucas.
I think Wade and Blue would have driven a much more impactful final result for MU had they stayed.
Quote from: #UnleashLaxBros on July 15, 2018, 07:22:22 PM
What world do you live in that 3 million isn't going to last a 22 year old? I would literally murder jsglow for 3 million (beware)
:o
Quote from: NotAnAlum on July 15, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago. It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be. Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for. Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Making sure I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture. Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc. I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship". The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early. Now its not about being desperate. EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse. Or for that matter it might have gotten better. He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them. But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.
I don't think things have changed anywhere near as much as you are stating.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 16, 2018, 06:38:54 AM
I think Wade and Blue would have driven a much more impactful final result for MU had they stayed.
Interesting argument. Does Travis still get injured Wades senior year if he stayed? Is Blue playing PG or SG if he stays. If blues playing SG we still have Derrick issues and if Travis is still injured it's a similar issue. Henry on the other hand would've been playing on a very well rounded team and could've been the X factor in bringing them to the next level.
Quote from: BagpipingHurler on July 16, 2018, 08:53:18 AM
Interesting argument. Does Travis still get injured Wades senior year if he stayed? Is Blue playing PG or SG if he stays. If blues playing SG we still have Derrick issues and if Travis is still injured it's a similar issue. Henry on the other hand would've been playing on a very well rounded team and could've been the X factor in bringing them to the next level.
Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference. That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 16, 2018, 09:12:55 AM
Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference. That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.
Agree with this. Team would have been better, but probably NIT better, not NCAA better.
I never thought Henry was much of an NBA prospect due to lack of athleticism and no one specific great skill (though he was a terrific rebounder in college), but I am constantly wrong about these things. I always thought Bentil from Providence would turn out to be an NBA guy and couldn't understand why anyone would rather have Henry.
Disagree. A senior PG able to get his own shot would have transformed that team.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 16, 2018, 09:12:55 AM
Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference. That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.
Quote from: CTWarrior on July 16, 2018, 09:15:57 AM
Agree with this. Team would have been better, but probably NIT better, not NCAA better.
I never thought Henry was much of an NBA prospect due to lack of athleticism and no one specific great skill (though he was a terrific rebounder in college), but I am constantly wrong about these things. I always thought Bentil from Providence would turn out to be an NBA guy and couldn't understand why anyone would rather have Henry.
Disagree. I think Blue would have started at the point, pushing Derrick to the bench and the result would have been not just a NCAA team but one with a top 8 seed. That team lost 6 games by a single possession including 2 in OT and 2 in 2OT. Blue could have easily been the difference in all of those losses. 6 more wins would have given them a 23-8 record with a win over eventual 2 seed Villanova and their worst loss being @St. John's, who was in the first four out of the tournament that season.
Of course there is no way to guarantee it plays out this way but its reasonable to think that Blue could have led to several more wins.
Quote from: tower912 on July 16, 2018, 09:19:48 AM
Disagree. A senior PG able to get his own shot would have transformed that team.
This. A player of Blue's caliber would have definitely made a huge impact. That team went 17-15 with 4 OT losses. Looking at nothing else, if MU wins 2 of those OT games, they're dancing.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on July 15, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago. It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be. Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for. Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Making sure I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture. Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc. I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship". The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early. Now its not about being desperate. EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse. Or for that matter it might have gotten better. He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them. But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.
I was a big Yankees fan in the 1970s. I promise you that Reggie, Goose, Catfish, etc, etc, etc were QUITE motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Marvin Webster didn't choose the Knicks in 1978 "for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be." He chose them because they threw obscene (for the times) money at him.
In 1972, Bobby Hull left the city and team he claimed to love to go to the WHA. Why? For a paycheck. Larry Csonka and Paul Warfield left a Dolphins dynasty in 1974 to go play in the WFL. Hull, Csonka and Warfield were hardly alone, as numerous players left NHL and NFL teams for inferior leagues. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Drysdale and Koufax threatened to ruin the Dodgers' chance of success by holding out in an era when such a thing was considered unthinkable.
Moses Malone skipped college for the paycheck. He went to the Sixers in 1982 for the paycheck and to the Hawks in 1988 for the paycheck.
Any of us could cite hundreds of other examples, especially from the 1970s and 1980s.
Respectfully, I posit that you are erroneously assigning cliche-version character to athletes from previous generations, perhaps because you wish it were true.
Of course there are rare exceptions, but when it comes to going for the paycheck first, NOTHING has changed for this generation. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 03:30:20 PM
And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.
You may want to consider inflation over 40 years. 60k today will be a small number in real terms 40 years out. Add that to the real temptation to spend more up front. Key is to invest wisely and then live off the income, not touching the principle. 3m is a great start but not the end all. Ask a retiree what inflation can do.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 16, 2018, 06:38:54 AM
I think Wade and Blue would have driven a much more impactful final result for MU had they stayed.
No.
Nobody will ever know, but I believe Henry was programmed for 2 years. Had he stayed, the rebuild would have been faster and more complete. WIthout him, we floundered as our guys were young and tried to find their way.
Blue would have helped but there was something inherently wrong with the last Hillbilly team. And, with the Hillbilly generally unable to get jucos, the probability Blue would have dramatically changed that team was remote.
And, of course, we had Todd Mayo!
Quote from: dgies9156 on July 16, 2018, 10:12:25 AM
No.
Nobody will ever know, but I believe Henry was programmed for 2 years. Had he stayed, the rebuild would have been faster and more complete. WIthout him, we floundered as our guys were young and tried to find their way.
Blue would have helped but there was something inherently wrong with the last Hillbilly team. And, with the Hillbilly generally unable to get jucos, the probability Blue would have dramatically changed that team was remote.
And, of course, we had Todd Mayo!
Having Blue over Jake would have made a huge difference.
Quote from: dgies9156 on July 16, 2018, 10:12:25 AM
Nobody will ever know, but I believe Henry was programmed for 2 years. Had he stayed, the rebuild would have been faster and more complete. WIthout him, we floundered as our guys were young and tried to find their way.
The Ellensons likely set the MU program back. Wally was only here to net Henry, which he did, but he added nothing else while eating up a scholarship for 2 season. Henry's lone season ended up basically being a personal showcase on a bad team. Those 2 scholarships could have been used (in theory) on players who were a junior and senior in the program last season. Maybe they end up being Jordan Murphy and Ben Lammers and MU is a top 10 team (highly unlikely) or maybe they end up being a couple of eventual transfers who prevent MU from landing a couple current impact players. We'll obviously never know but I feel confident in saying that the Ellensons did very little to improve the Marquette basketball program in the big picture. At the same time, I don't fault Wojo one iota for bringing them in. It just didn't work out as well as it potentially could (should?) have.
Quote from: Nukem2 on July 16, 2018, 11:04:27 AM
Having Blue over Jake would have made a huge difference.
Agree 100%.
The problem with that team wasn't Derrick and it wasn't Jake, it was Derrick and Jake. We could've been good with either one if Blue was the other guard. We had two guards that couldn't score consistently. Whether Blue was still in his SG role alongside a plus defender in Derrick or was a slashing PG that could get the ball to the sharpshooter in Jake, it would've worked much better.
History tells us Jake would've left, but either way, Blue was exactly what that team needed. I think him leaving was one more thing to jumpstart Buzz's departure.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2018, 11:38:38 AM
Agree 100%.
The problem with that team wasn't Derrick and it wasn't Jake, it was Derrick and Jake. We could've been good with either one if Blue was the other guard. We had two guards that couldn't score consistently. Whether Blue was still in his SG role alongside a plus defender in Derrick or was a slashing PG that could get the ball to the sharpshooter in Jake, it would've worked much better.
History tells us Jake would've left, but either way, Blue was exactly what that team needed. I think him leaving was one more thing to jumpstart Buzz's departure.
That is a reasonable response.
Love the trip down memory lane. The other big if from that season had Jameel McKay stayed. If that MU team had both Blue and McKay, boy, talk about a different season.
Quote from: jsglow on July 15, 2018, 09:59:57 AM
Personally, I think Henry's pro game has gone about as I expected. As to his 'one and done' decision, I think we mostly saw that coming in. Look, Henry's brief stint here at MU will always be remembered for providing MU nation with a brief relief from what was an otherwise forgettable early Wojo rebuilding era. Each side got what they needed out of it. And then each side moved on. Of all of MU's NBA players, I'm most indifferent about Henry. A MU rental. I wish him the best.
Same. I don't have time to dig up my posts about Henry from when he left, but things have gone about how I expected. He was a talented big, but a tweener in the NBA. He was never going to blossom into star unless he drastically improved his shooting, defense and general toughness. Bummed to see its turned out that way, but I am hardly surprised.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2018, 03:30:20 PM
And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.
orrrr...you live like a 20 year old kid who was just given $3M and plays in the NBA. I get what you're saying, but these things aren't exactly equivilant.
Henry probably isn't driving a 04 Honda Civic and living in some mid-tier apartment complex.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on July 16, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
Love the trip down memory lane. The other big if from that season had Jameel McKay stayed. If that MU team had both Blue and McKay, boy, talk about a different season.
And the Toddler and TJ Taylor. Don't underestimate the impact the extra judicial academic rules imposed had on the program for better or worse. Vander wasn't too pleased with them either. Jake and Derrick were always to be situational players.
Buzz said at the time that the changes set the program back a couple of years. In reality, it has been five years and counting as MU has moved on to higher caliber academic student athletes. The reality is it has taken a long time to cycle through, and thankfully, this is the year of the turnaround we hope.
Btw, I had the opportunity to talk to Jake fairly recently and he said he would have loved to have played a year under Wojo. Let's face it, Buzz had his last team on a short leash in regards to tempo and shot selection. The boos heard for those players was not one of MU fandom's greatest moments. Their coach and administration let them all down.
Not having read the whole thread (just the beginning and the last few posts):
my 2 cents...and the same as a lot of you...Henry didnt unpack his bags as Wojo said and hoped (but I can't believe Wojo really thought it). Ellensons used MU for their purposes. It was efficient, not mean, but their purposes....just like Stone at Maryland and a bunch of other one-n-done guys not destined for greatness but great basketball players.
I think he is done as well...but I can't say I knew it until I saw him shooting NBA 3s at 20%...It seemed like he could shoot from distance ... thought not hitting at MU was just bad luck ...but he never could shoot really. It was that and his inability to Jump that should have been the clues.
If you could cross the elevation of Wally with the size and skill of Henry, you would have something even without the shot. But that isn't the way it is.
Quote from: MUBigDance on July 16, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
Not having read the whole thread (just the beginning and the last few posts):
my 2 cents...and the same as a lot of you...Henry didnt unpack his bags as Wojo said and hoped (but I can't believe Wojo really thought it). Ellensons used MU for their purposes. It was efficient, not mean, but their purposes....just like Stone at Maryland and a bunch of other one-n-done guys not destined for greatness but great basketball players.
I think he is done as well...but I can't say I knew it until I saw him shooting NBA 3s at 20%...It seemed like he could shoot from distance ... thought not hitting at MU was just bad luck ...but he never could shoot really. It was that and his inability to Jump that should have been the clues.
If you could cross the elevation of Wally with the size and skill of Henry, you would have something even without the shot. But that isn't the way it is.
I honestly think that part of Henry's issue is that he set out to be a so-called "Stretch 4" from the beginning. He wasn't a post player who later developed an outside shot and evolved into that role. He was a near 7-footer who wanted to be a perimeter player but lacks the quickness and shot to do so and he never really developed an interior game. Without the ability to shoot from the outside, he has nothing to fall back on but a big body.
Looking at some other NBA bigs...
Kevin Love didn't really start shooting 3s at a high rate until his 4th season in the NBA
Brook Lopez - 9th
Al Horford - 9th
Paul Millsap - 8th
Blake Griffin - 7th
Boogie Cousins - 6th
Channing Frye - 5th
Anthony Davis - 4th (and still only about 2/game)
The other thing I will remember: MU went out of its way to be generous with Wally. Wojo did the right thing in my mind by insisting that he fully commit to #mubb if he wanted a scholarship. And when he couldn't or wouldn't do that, the university graciously created a viable Plan B. If the Ellenson family was annoyed and thought more was owed, move along, because it wasn't.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 16, 2018, 09:12:55 AM
Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference. That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.
After it being pointed out that we lost a ton of games in OT, I do question whether Blue could've got us over the hump like Lazar did with that 09-10 team's 3OT wins in a row. But I'm still not 100% sold.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 16, 2018, 02:29:43 PM
I honestly think that part of Henry's issue is that he set out to be a so-called "Stretch 4" from the beginning. He wasn't a post player who later developed an outside shot and evolved into that role. He was a near 7-footer who wanted to be a perimeter player but lacks the quickness and shot to do so and he never really developed an interior game. Without the ability to shoot from the outside, he has nothing to fall back on but a big body.
Looking at some other NBA bigs...
Kevin Love didn't really start shooting 3s at a high rate until his 4th season in the NBA
Brook Lopez - 9th
Al Horford - 9th
Paul Millsap - 8th
Blake Griffin - 7th
Boogie Cousins - 6th
Channing Frye - 5th
Anthony Davis - 4th (and still only about 2/game)
I don't disagree, but wouldn't you also say those big men you listed developed those three pointers because they had to in order adapt to the new style of playing the game? Traditional back to the basket bigs are no longer valued in today's NBA, especially if you are PF sized. It could be argued that if they were drafted the same year as Henry, they would have forced being a stretch four as well....otherwise they might not have been drafted. Similarly, you could say that Henry might not have forced it if he was being drafted 10 years ago.
Quote from: 4everCrean on July 15, 2018, 11:55:59 PM
Expand beyond sports and you have America today.
Absolutely agree. EVERYBODY in every professional is now focused on "how can I cash out quick".
And yes it has changed a lot in the last 40 years and in the last 20 years. Its been getting much worse.
The reason I chose to call it out in this case is that the more we universally agree that this is the way everyone should behave it further embeds it in our culture. There is another way and it actually used to be the norm.
::)
Quote from: NotAnAlum on July 16, 2018, 04:53:31 PM
Absolutely agree. EVERYBODY in every professional is now focused on "how can I cash out quick".
And yes it has changed a lot in the last 40 years and in the last 20 years. Its been getting much worse.
Nope
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on July 15, 2018, 08:00:20 PM
What exactly do you think Henry will be doing again?
Subliminal eyn'a? Yeah, that didn't come out the way it sposed to ;) kinda like when the tv guys note a player is getting a little winded-looks like he needs to come out for a blow :o ;D
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 16, 2018, 04:32:30 PM
I don't disagree, but wouldn't you also say those big men you listed developed those three pointers because they had to in order adapt to the new style of playing the game? Traditional back to the basket bigs are no longer valued in today's NBA, especially if you are PF sized. It could be argued that if they were drafted the same year as Henry, they would have forced being a stretch four as well....otherwise they might not have been drafted. Similarly, you could say that Henry might not have forced it if he was being drafted 10 years ago.
I get what you're saying and agree with your points about the modern style of play. That said, Karl-Anthony Towns took all of 8 threes during his only season at UK before making it a bigger part of his game during his second season in the NBA. Other young bigs like Myles Turner, Trey Lyles, Bobby Portis, Jarell Martin, etc have increased their volume of 3-point shots over time. On the other hand, in HE's rookie season 70% of his shots came from 16+ feet out, including 54% from 3-point range (admittedly it was a limited sample size). He decreased those numbers to 49% and 41% in his second season but the fact that he's shooting 30% in summer league with 43% of his shots being 3's (16.7% shooting!) leads me to believe that he's still spending most of his time on the perimeter.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 17, 2018, 08:34:45 AM
I get what you're saying and agree with your points about the modern style of play. That said, Karl-Anthony Towns took all of 8 threes during his only season at UK before making it a bigger part of his game during his second season in the NBA. Other young bigs like Myles Turner, Trey Lyles, Bobby Portis, Jarell Martin, etc have increased their volume of 3-point shots over time. On the other hand, in HE's rookie season 70% of his shots came from 16+ feet out, including 54% from 3-point range (admittedly it was a limited sample size). He decreased those numbers to 49% and 41% in his second season but the fact that he's shooting 30% in summer league with 43% of his shots being 3's (16.7% shooting!) leads me to believe that he's still spending most of his time on the perimeter.
Not that you said otherwise, but I'm guessing that Henry shot that many 3s as a rookie (and continued shooting that many in Summer League) because his coaches wanted him to.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/07/16/kevin-garnett-andre-drummond-henry-ellenson/788565002/
Well, if KG can get both of these guys to play with intensity on the defensive end, the Pistons will be in the mix in the neutered East.
Kevin Garnett isn't going to coach more athleticism out of Henry Ellenson.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1018935623716130818
#mubb @HenryEllenson13 led @DetroitPistons in scoring (15.7 ppg.) & second in rebounding (7.2 rpg) at @NBA Summer League.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 17, 2018, 03:35:24 PM
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1018935623716130818
#mubb @HenryEllenson13 led @DetroitPistons in scoring (15.7 ppg.) & second in rebounding (7.2 rpg) at @NBA Summer League.
He had fewer points than FGA (29.9% shooting) and averaged nearly 4 TOs a game. It was a bit of a bumpy ride for ol' Hank.
With a club option for next season followed by becoming a RFA the year after that, not to mention a new coach and GM in Detroit, it could be a critical year for Henry's NBA future. Hopefully he has a more efficient regular season.
Quote from: hdog1017 on July 17, 2018, 03:17:39 PM
Kevin Garnett isn't going to coach more athleticism out of Henry Ellenson.
What elements will focus on in coaching Henry?
Quote from: tower912 on July 17, 2018, 10:40:15 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/07/16/kevin-garnett-andre-drummond-henry-ellenson/788565002/
Well, if KG can get both of these guys to play with intensity on the defensive end, the Pistons will be in the mix in the neutered East.
He has been working with Thon Maker for at least a year so I wouldn't be too optimistic although he did have that one good playoff game.
Maybe he can make an impact alongside Harry in the land down under...
https://www.eurobasket.com/boxScores/Australia/2018/0714_1449_21430.asp?
Quote from: WarriorFan on July 18, 2018, 09:25:06 AM
Maybe he can make an impact alongside Harry in the land down under...
https://www.eurobasket.com/boxScores/Australia/2018/0714_1449_21430.asp?
33 points, 14 rebounds, 5 assissts in 32 minutes with 5 of 8 on 3 point shots. Maybe MU should look to leave the Big East for the Aussie League.
Love the profile ("Harrison Froling") and pic included on that page:
Quote from: WarriorFan on July 18, 2018, 09:25:06 AM
Maybe he can make an impact alongside Harry in the land down under...
https://www.eurobasket.com/boxScores/Australia/2018/0714_1449_21430.asp?
Awesome news. Thanks for posting.
My mind began comparing/contrasting Harry and Henry, and then I realized that was a place I didn't really care to go. They will both find success and lead interesting, relatively low stress lives.