Major respect for Markus
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1014566034819428352?s=21
Quote from: MuMark on July 04, 2018, 02:52:58 PM
Major respect for Markus
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1014566034819428352?s=21
I hope he's the 7th best returning player in the country, especially because I think he's only our second best returning player.
Will be interesting to see how Markus performs with a true point guard in the back court. It is possible, with Mr. Chartouny running the offense, that Markus could put up 24-25 ppg this year.
Also interest to note in the Katz video they had Tyus Battle at number 6. Battles younger brother Khalif has committed to Butler.
Based on Wojo's interview he doesn't want anyone averaging 24-25 points per game.
He wants to see more balance
Quote from: MuMark on July 04, 2018, 06:37:34 PM
Based on Wojo's interview he doesn't want anyone averaging 24-25 points per game.
He wants to see more balance
Chartouny May be able to get Markus some cleaner 3 point looks and result in greater efficiency . Wojo has also said that he wants Markus taking as many open 3s as he can get. Last year a lot of the shots were forced. Hopefully this year that won't be the case.
I'll take the under on Markus averaging 24.5 ppg.........if interested let me know.... 8-)
Oh, he'll average 24.5 ppg ... cuz he's gonna shoot 60% from 3, remember?
Other than an outbreak of injuries, I don't foresee anyone averaging 30 mpg. And more than ever before, I see defensive effort or lack thereof dictating playing time. Effort in practice. Knowing defensive assignments. Being accountable. Because if one guy isn't, there is someone chomping at the bit for more minutes.
This was an elaborate troll from Katz.
His "Can't believe he didn't test the NBA waters" comment is clearly intended to persuade Markus to declare with an agent after this season so his Badgers won't suffer another embarrassing home loss next season.
Nice try, Bucky Boy.
Top 5
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1014916823106686981?s=21
Quote from: barfolomew on July 05, 2018, 12:40:58 PM
This was an elaborate troll from Katz.
His "Can't believe he didn't test the NBA waters" comment is clearly intended to persuade Markus to declare with an agent after this season so his Badgers won't suffer another embarrassing home loss next season.
Nice try, Bucky Boy.
I'm similarly perturbed, but, Markus is definitely a top player. I don't think it's wrong for an outsider to look at the makeup of the team, see that there are so many options, and wonder if it will:
1) Open Markus up for more easy looks offensively (including open j's and easier drives)
2) No longer magnify x1000 his defensive shortcomings (no other midget + improved team D)
3) Allow him to showcase some of his defensive strengths (he can be a pesky defender, which will need to be his upside if he's to make it in the NBA)
Whether any of this happens is another story, but if he continues on the upward trajectory and the team pans out, I expect he will be seen as the hero... The media will focus in on him.
Quote from: D'Lo Brown on July 05, 2018, 11:30:04 PM
I'm similarly perturbed, but, Markus is definitely a top player. I don't think it's wrong for an outsider to look at the makeup of the team, see that there are so many options, and wonder if it will:
1) Open Markus up for more easy looks offensively (including open j's and easier drives)
2) No longer magnify x1000 his defensive shortcomings (no other midget + improved team D)
3) Allow him to showcase some of his defensive strengths (he can be a pesky defender, which will need to be his upside if he's to make it in the NBA)
Whether any of this happens is another story, but if he continues on the upward trajectory and the team pans out, I expect he will be seen as the hero... The media will focus in on him.
Good points here.
I felt that unlike AR, Markus at least tried to play defense. He'd try to draw a charge (and succeed sometimes), try to get in a passing lane, etc. He has the ability to be "pesky," and I do agree that his shortcomings should be less pronounced this season without an allergic-to-D Smurf next to him.
As my comment history would show, I am not an AR-hater. He arguably was our MVP last season, and I enjoyed watching him play. But it's no secret that he was allergic to defense.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 04, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
I hope he's the 7th best returning player in the country, especially because I think he's only our second best returning player.
Does Joey count as a "returning player?"
Quote from: Benny B on July 06, 2018, 11:20:48 AM
Does Joey count as a "returning player?"
I did not consider him "returning" in my post.
Quote from: tower912 on July 05, 2018, 07:33:51 AM
Other than an outbreak of injuries, I don't foresee anyone averaging 30 mpg. And more than ever before, I see defensive effort or lack thereof dictating playing time. Effort in practice. Knowing defensive assignments. Being accountable. Because if one guy isn't, there is someone chomping at the bit for more minutes.
I hope you are right.
IMHO, defense will decide the fate of this team. The offensive pieces are there. If everybody works on defense, there is enough length, depth, and shooting to compete with anyone. All about the D.
I really like Markus...Glad he's on the team...an look forward to him hitting some nice 3's this year.
Opinion on NBA: He has no future there. Too short.
People say mugsy, spud, steph. - mugsy and spud were physical phenoms. Steph is taller and just top-shelf better at everything.
of course I missed Jimmy Butler being an all-star so what do I know.
Quote from: MUBigDance on July 06, 2018, 03:45:04 PM
I really like Markus...Glad he's on the team...an look forward to him hitting some nice 3's this year.
Opinion on NBA: He has no future there. Too short.
People say mugsy, spud, steph. - mugsy and spud were physical phenoms. Steph is taller and just top-shelf better at everything.
of course I missed Jimmy Butler being an all-star so what do I know.
Isaiah Thomas is 5'9"
Quote from: MUBigDance on July 06, 2018, 03:45:04 PM
I really like Markus...Glad he's on the team...an look forward to him hitting some nice 3's this year.
Opinion on NBA: He has no future there. Too short.
People say mugsy, spud, steph. - mugsy and spud were physical phenoms. Steph is taller and just top-shelf better at everything.
of course I missed Jimmy Butler being an all-star so what do I know.
He will play in the NBA. Unless he has some sort of catastrophic injury or falls off the map somehow. His shooting ability is incredibly rare. He might bounce around a bit, and there's still plenty undecided. But I feel very comfortable, as of now, saying he will get a look.
Jamil Wilson was roundly hated upon by most on this board - he had/has no elite skills and his athleticism was not that good. He has an NBA future, even if it took some years of work. Markus already has at least one truly elite skill - if he can keep that up, that alone will at least get him a long look. Give him a half dozen more years to work on his game and who knows.
I'm no expert when it comes to the NBA, but I've seen enough SportsCenter highlights to know that teams place their priority on offense as opposed to defense. There are many players in the NBA that don't play a lick of defense and get by just fine. No one is saying that Markus is going to be a star in the NBA. But saying that he is precluded from the NBA due to his size/defensive abilities/athleticism is kind of a joke. If he could shoot threes at an elite level in the NBA, teams wouldn't care if he only had one leg.
Of course he's going to get a look, but he's too short to be an NBA spot up shooter. He has to develop his ball handling and distribution skills because that's where his future will be.
I think people undervalue jamil wilsons combination of size, strength, and athleticism. Read so many times where wilson is not very athletic. Is he a freak of the nba ? No. But he has a very good combo of the three aforementioned traits that end up being a very good fit for the nba. His athleticism has for the most part carried him this far.
Quote from: D'Lo Brown on July 07, 2018, 05:37:31 AMJamil Wilson was roundly hated upon by most on this board - he had/has no elite skills and his athleticism was not that good. He has an NBA future, even if it took some years of work. Markus already has at least one truly elite skill - if he can keep that up, that alone will at least get him a long look. Give him a half dozen more years to work on his game and who knows.
I think with Jamil it wasn't hate, it was frustration. He had the frame to be a beast physically and always had the athleticism and ability. He just never put it all together here. I'm glad he seems to have done so now and hope he gets another NBA look. If Jamil had an Achilles' Heel at MU, it was that he never developed that killer instinct that guys like Jae, Jimmy, and DJO clearly had.
I could see Markus playing in the NBA, but he has to develop the point skills. The ball handling, the distribution, and the ability to finish through contact. Can he do it? Possibly. But seeing two veteran transfers coming in to play the point during his last two seasons will make it a challenge.
Quote from: MuMark on July 04, 2018, 06:37:34 PM
Based on Wojo's interview he doesn't want anyone averaging 24-25 points per game.
He wants to see more balance
I would agree with WJO'S position. I would also like to see better passing and defense.
Quote from: tower912 on July 06, 2018, 02:59:09 PM
IMHO, defense will decide the fate of this team. The offensive pieces are there. If everybody works on defense, there is enough length, depth, and shooting to compete with anyone. All about the D.
Yep
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 07, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
I think with Jamil it wasn't hate, it was frustration. He had the frame to be a beast physically and always had the athleticism and ability. He just never put it all together here. I'm glad he seems to have done so now and hope he gets another NBA look. If Jamil had an Achilles' Heel at MU, it was that he never developed that killer instinct that guys like Jae, Jimmy, and DJO clearly had.
I could see Markus playing in the NBA, but he has to develop the point skills. The ball handling, the distribution, and the ability to finish through contact. Can he do it? Possibly. But seeing two veteran transfers coming in to play the point during his last two seasons will make it a challenge.
It was meant as an example of how we tend to nitpick and over-analyze our players' deficiencies, especially with respect to their making the league. I'm sure there were a handful of people that were all-in on Jamil making the league, but my recollection was that the majority thought he would never spend a minute on an NBA floor. And yet, here he is. And there are other examples.
3-4 years ago, if we polled Scoop on whether we would ever simultaneously play two 5'10" unathletic, no-defense shooting guards 30+ minutes per game within the next century, the vast majority would have said impossible. The well-studied among us might have given an example or two of that happening in recent history, purely based on the size comparison. I'm just saying that, when it comes to Markus (and even AR), you can downgrade him all you want in the evaluation but in the end, you put him on the floor because he puts points on the board better than almost anyone else. I'm not saying the NBA will be the exact same for him, but purely using precedent and his lack of this/that doesn't really change that he has something to offer that most don't. He is one of the very elite shooters in all of college basketball. I can totally see him on the back end of an NBA bench as an energy guy, pesky defender that sneaks in a few threes per game and distributes. Sure, he might not distribute much now but that is because
he is the one being distributed to, he is the top option. With practice he would serve just fine as a shoot-first backup PG, IMO.
I was never a Jamil "hater." I just thought he underachieved significantly at Marquette except for a handful of games.
Thankfully, one of those games (or at least the end of one of those games) was Davidson in the 2013 NCAAs or else there would have never been an Elite 8 appearance.
And yes, I fully admit that I am surprised that he was able to receive NBA regular-season minutes. Buycks, too.
Quote from: D'Lo Brown on July 07, 2018, 05:57:41 PM
I can totally see him on the back end of an NBA bench as an energy guy, pesky defender that sneaks in a few threes per game and distributes. Sure, he might not distribute much now but that is because he is the one being distributed to, he is the top option. With practice he would serve just fine as a shoot-first backup PG, IMO.
This made me think of a comparison which had me a little convinced there might be a chance, Matthew Dellavedova, undersized shooter who plays hard on D but with clear deficiencies.
Quote from: THRILLHO on July 08, 2018, 06:04:09 AM
This made me think of a comparison which had me a little convinced there might be a chance, Matthew Dellavedova, undersized shooter who plays hard on D but with clear deficiencies.
He's 6-4.
Markus has to be a point guard. He isn't an end of the bench shooter. He's too small.
His ceiling, and this may be too high, is Patty Mills.
Also the fact that Jamil has made it should show you how important size and length are in today's NBA. Yeah he worked hard to develop his skills, but he always had the NBA body. That's a guy who can be an end of the bench player who brings energy, defense and hit an occasional shot.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 08, 2018, 07:59:58 AM
Also the fact that Jamil has made it should show you how important size and length are in today's NBA. Yeah he worked hard to develop his skills, but he always had the NBA body. That's a guy who can be an end of the bench player who brings energy, defense and hit an occasional shot.
Curious if anyone knows how much Jamil has made so far?
Quote from: real chili 83 on July 08, 2018, 08:11:07 AM
Curious if anyone knows how much Jamil has made so far?
Low six figures. He's received a total of $100k for his NBA work and smaller amounts for his G League work. Not much really.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 08, 2018, 08:14:35 AM
Low six figures. He's received a total of $100k for his NBA work and smaller amounts for his G League work. Not much really.
He maxed out on his 45 NBA days on his two way contract last year with the Clippers. So between G league salary and NBA rookie minimum proration he made about 275K. The max for a two way contract this year is 385k.
Quote from: Herman Cain on July 08, 2018, 08:49:26 AM
He maxed out on his 45 NBA days on his two way contract last year with the Clippers. So between G league salary and NBA rookie minimum proration he made about 275K. The max for a two way contract this year is 385k.
But I thought he was waived in January.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 08, 2018, 08:52:39 AM
But I thought he was waived in January.
He was waived in January after he used up the maximum 45 days. The Clippers did not want to lose him but they had no choice because they had no cap room to sign him . Lakers were going to sign Jamil to a 10 day deal but backed off when the Herpes lawsuit was made public. . He was then picked up by the Ft Wayne Mad Ants and finished off the season in G League. . The two way contracts pay you at G League salary while a player is the G League and prorated rookie minimum while the player is in the NBA. So essentially Jamil maxed out on both provisions . The essence of these two way contracts is to pay them enough to keep the borderline players in the US in case they are needed. Jamil then went to the italian league for one month after the G League season was over .
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on July 08, 2018, 07:18:46 AM
He's 6-4.
lol ok so much for that comparison. Is it fair to say he plays smaller than that?
Quote from: Herman Cain on July 08, 2018, 12:23:38 PM
He was waived in January after he used up the maximum 45 days. The Clippers did not want to lose him but they had no choice because they had no cap room to sign him . Lakers were going to sign Jamil to a 10 day deal but backed off when the Herpes lawsuit was made public. . He was then picked up by the Ft Wayne Mad Ants and finished off the season in G League. . The two way contracts pay you at G League salary while a player is the G League and prorated rookie minimum while the player is in the NBA. So essentially Jamil maxed out on both provisions . The essence of these two way contracts is to pay them enough to keep the borderline players in the US in case they are needed. Jamil then went to the italian league for one month after the G League season was over .
Ok thanks. Is he under contract for this year?
Quote from: D'Lo Brown on July 07, 2018, 05:57:41 PM
It was meant as an example of how we tend to nitpick and over-analyze our players' deficiencies, especially with respect to their making the league. I'm sure there were a handful of people that were all-in on Jamil making the league, but my recollection was that the majority thought he would never spend a minute on an NBA floor. And yet, here he is. And there are other examples.
3-4 years ago, if we polled Scoop on whether we would ever simultaneously play two 5'10" unathletic, no-defense shooting guards 30+ minutes per game within the next century, the vast majority would have said impossible. The well-studied among us might have given an example or two of that happening in recent history, purely based on the size comparison. I'm just saying that, when it comes to Markus (and even AR), you can downgrade him all you want in the evaluation but in the end, you put him on the floor because he puts points on the board better than almost anyone else. I'm not saying the NBA will be the exact same for him, but purely using precedent and his lack of this/that doesn't really change that he has something to offer that most don't. He is one of the very elite shooters in all of college basketball. I can totally see him on the back end of an NBA bench as an energy guy, pesky defender that sneaks in a few threes per game and distributes. Sure, he might not distribute much now but that is because he is the one being distributed to, he is the top option. With practice he would serve just fine as a shoot-first backup PG, IMO.
Completely agree with this post. My only concern id Markus is an absolutely horrible ball handler. He has a tremendous way to go. In order to distribute it you also have to handle it.
Quote from: D'Lo Brown on July 07, 2018, 05:57:41 PMIt was meant as an example of how we tend to nitpick and over-analyze our players' deficiencies, especially with respect to their making the league. I'm sure there were a handful of people that were all-in on Jamil making the league, but my recollection was that the majority thought he would never spend a minute on an NBA floor. And yet, here he is. And there are other examples.
I'm not sure about this. I think often we overvalue our own players. I think guys expected quite a few MU guys to play more in the NBA than they have. Early on, I think most expected Jamil to be a success in the NBA. It was his inability to take over at the college level his junior and senior seasons that changed that line of thought. Guys also seemed to think players like DJO, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, and Dominic James had more of a future in the NBA than reality ended up giving them.
We've had a few surprises. Not sure Wes really surprised any Marquette fans, but no one expected JFB to develop into an All-Star and few thought Dwight Buycks would get a sniff. Looking at this current roster, people make a case for Markus and I've seen claims of Sam as well. I imagine there are people that can envision Jamal Cain or Greg Elliott getting a sniff, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear people making cases for Joey Hauser, Brendan Bailey, and others depending on how the next couple seasons go.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 09, 2018, 10:12:34 AM
I'm not sure about this. I think often we overvalue our own players. I think guys expected quite a few MU guys to play more in the NBA than they have. Early on, I think most expected Jamil to be a success in the NBA. It was his inability to take over at the college level his junior and senior seasons that changed that line of thought. Guys also seemed to think players like DJO, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, and Dominic James had more of a future in the NBA than reality ended up giving them.
We've had a few surprises. Not sure Wes really surprised any Marquette fans, but no one expected JFB to develop into an All-Star and few thought Dwight Buycks would get a sniff. Looking at this current roster, people make a case for Markus and I've seen claims of Sam as well. I imagine there are people that can envision Jamal Cain or Greg Elliott getting a sniff, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear people making cases for Joey Hauser, Brendan Bailey, and others depending on how the next couple seasons go.
This is certainly true. I think the hope for sam is because of the run Novak had. I could see Cain, especially if he continues working on that outside shot. Bailey would be shocking as he'd be 23/24 by the time he's the primary option.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 09, 2018, 10:12:34 AMGuys also seemed to think players like DJO, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, and Dominic James had more of a future in the NBA than reality ended up giving them.
DJO, Vander and Jerel weren't hard to explain — all undersized shooting guards for the NBA level. While I loved Davante, I never thought he was an NBA player. Hard to know why Lazar fell out of the league so soon, but lots of players do. It's incredibly competitive.
Dominic might have had the greatest potential as a pro. But the broken foot cost him at the worst possible time in his career.
Quote from: Marcus92 on July 09, 2018, 10:33:17 AM
DJO, Vander and Jerel weren't hard to explain — all undersized shooting guards for the NBA level. While I loved Davante, I never thought he was an NBA player. Hard to know why Lazar fell out of the league so soon, but lots of players do. It's incredibly competitive.
Dominic might have had the greatest potential as a pro. But the broken foot cost him at the worst possible time in his career.
I personally think Lazar was put into the wrong systems. I don't see why he couldn't have been what Crowder is.
I think there's also this mentality that players are going to the same type of players once they get to the pros. Jamil shot 32% from 3 his Senior year, yet if you only watched the TBT you would think that it would have been significantly higher. I don't think he'll ever have more than a bench role but if he spends his next two collegiate years improving, Markus will be on a NBA roster. He is the same height as former 1st round pick Shane Larkin, and has a significantly higher ceiling IMO, solely based on his shooting ability. Neither can really guard anyone and I don't think either will have a terribly long NBA career, but Larkin signed a 1.5 million dollar contract, and that ain't bad for a 21 year old.
Quote from: Marcus92 on July 09, 2018, 10:33:17 AM
DJO, Vander and Jerel weren't hard to explain — all undersized shooting guards for the NBA level. While I loved Davante, I never thought he was an NBA player. Hard to know why Lazar fell out of the league so soon, but lots of players do. It's incredibly competitive.
Dominic might have had the greatest potential as a pro. But the broken foot cost him at the worst possible time in his career.
I'm not saying they aren't hard to explain in retrospect, but I think most MU fans expected them to have more of a NBA future, even if it was in the 7th to 10th man on the bench. I didn't think Davante would get there, but there were some that thought he could be a Dejuan Blair type. We may see all our players faults, but I think we also tend to overemphasize their strengths.
I tend to undersell MU players' NBA prospects. I never thought Davante would get there. Too slow, one-dimensional. I thought Jamil had the physical gifts, but not the mental toughness when he was at MU. Vander was a 2g who couldn't shoot. I always thought that he should have stayed for his senior year and played the point, a la Tony Smith. That was his only hope. Buycks surprised me. He put in a crap ton of work after he left MU. DJO and Jerel were generously listed at 6'2 and the number of successful 6'2 shooting guards in the league is miniscule. Lazar came in as a SG, played 4-5 out of desperation, but in the end was a 6'4 1/2 swing man. Jae and Jimmy both played with a ferocity on both ends and showed they could handle the ball and guard multiple positions. Wes was in their mold, MU fans just didn't see it because he spent his first 3 years playing 3rd wheel.
I don't think Sam or Markus will ever start in the league. Nor do I think they will be drafted. I think both may play in the league, but on the fringes. I sure do appreciate what they do for Marquette.
Quote from: #bansultan on July 08, 2018, 07:34:53 PM
Ok thanks. Is he under contract for this year?
He is a free agent. He has a workout with the Bucks coming up.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 09, 2018, 11:04:24 AM
I'm not saying they aren't hard to explain in retrospect, but I think most MU fans expected them to have more of a NBA future, even if it was in the 7th to 10th man on the bench. I didn't think Davante would get there, but there were some that thought he could be a Dejuan Blair type. We may see all our players faults, but I think we also tend to overemphasize their strengths.
One poster even believed that Davante would take Dirk to school...
Quote from: wadesworld on July 09, 2018, 11:44:16 AM
One poster even believed that Davante would take Dirk to school...
We also had a couple that thought Magic Dawson was going to make the NBA. Hell...some are still championing him because he's a G-League backup.