MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Silkk the Shaka on March 31, 2018, 06:38:18 PM

Title: Off-season wish list
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on March 31, 2018, 06:38:18 PM
Coaches: Stan & Nelson stay for at least one more year (more successful season will raise their profile), and we add Dave Thorson to replace Carrawell.

Personnel: add Chartouny and a high level regular transfer PG or combo guard. Get a commit from DJ Carton or Jalen Wilson (or both) to kick off the '19 class.

Health: Sam, Joey, & Greg recover on the earlier ends of their respective timetables.

Players: Cain & Elliott each add 10+ lbs of muscle and both tighten up handles while improving the 3 ball. Morrow gets himself to an 80%+ FT shooter. Markus tightens his handle and improves his finishing at the rim similar to how he added the floater last year. Theo develops a post counter-move that doesn't result in a travel. Sacar goes to the Vander Between Soph & Junior Year school of finishing in traffic and keep improving the three ball. Sam & Joey be more refined versions of themselves. Bailey put on weight. Heldt work on finishing at the rim and hedging on screens.


Anything else?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 31, 2018, 06:45:18 PM
Through some arcane magic ncaa laws otule has a 7th year of eligibility
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 31, 2018, 06:38:18 PM
Coaches: Stan & Nelson stay for at least one more year (more successful season will raise their profile), and we add Dave Thorson to replace Carrawell.

Personnel: add Chartouny and a high level regular transfer PG or combo guard. Get a commit from DJ Carton or Jalen Wilson (or both) to kick off the '19 class.

Health: Sam, Joey, & Greg recover on the earlier ends of their respective timetables.

Players: Cain & Elliott each add 10+ lbs of muscle and both tighten up handles while improving the 3 ball. Morrow gets himself to an 80%+ FT shooter. Markus tightens his handle and improves his finishing at the rim similar to how he added the floater last year. Theo develops a post counter-move that doesn't result in a travel. Sacar goes to the Vander Between Soph & Junior Year school of finishing in traffic and keep improving the three ball. Sam & Joey be more refined versions of themselves. Bailey put on weight. Heldt work on finishing at the rim and hedging on screens.


Anything else?
A healthy recovery from surgery for Ike.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on March 31, 2018, 07:05:04 PM
We have 7 games left on the schedule to be figured out. First, here's what we know:

Like the last two years, we should be assembling a schedule with the postseason in mind. Here's what I want with those remaining games:

If they can't find another home-and-home to start at home, a neutral site game would be fine, but I think maximizing home games (18 true home dates) is ideal for the first year at the Silk.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: forgetful on March 31, 2018, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: #UnleashFroling on March 31, 2018, 06:45:18 PM
Through some arcane magic ncaa laws otule has a 7th year of eligibility

I'd rather get Buycks back for one more year.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 31, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 31, 2018, 06:38:18 PM
Anything else?
A semblance of defense.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 31, 2018, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 31, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
A semblance of defense.

As a Marquette fan I don't know what defense is but if it is something opposite of offense I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: willie warrior on March 31, 2018, 08:28:49 PM
We all continue to be patient with Wojo, because if we are, it is a given that he will be come the next Jay Wright!
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on March 31, 2018, 08:32:21 PM
Going through his Twitter, I'd love to see the last assistant spot go to Brad Autry. Focuses on defense and has been successful at every stop.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 31, 2018, 07:05:04 PM
We have 7 games left on the schedule to be figured out. First, here's what we know:

  • At Big Ten (Gavitt)
  • Two mid-major home Preseason NIT games
  • Two of Louisville/Kansas/Tennessee
  • Wisconsin
  • Buffalo
Like the last two years, we should be assembling a schedule with the postseason in mind. Here's what I want with those remaining games:

  • High-Major Road Game, first of home-and-home. Arizona would be my second choice. Homecoming for Markus & a great home game for 2019.
  • High level Mid-Major Home Game, first of home-and-home. Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Wichita State, or someone that draws eyeballs but will start here.
  • Another quality home buy. Weber State, Stephen F Austin, or Winthrop type team that is always a tourney contender.
  • Three more buy games in the 150-250 range. No truly terrible games.
If they can't find another home-and-home to start at home, a neutral site game would be fine, but I think maximizing home games (18 true home dates) is ideal for the first year at the Silk.
All of this is very well thought out. I would point out that Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Wichita State are not Mid Majors. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 31, 2018, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
All of this is very well thought out. I would point out that Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Wichita State are not Mid Majors. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

They are good teams that play in mid-major conferences. No stones, just facts.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 31, 2018, 09:32:24 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on March 31, 2018, 08:28:49 PM
We all continue to be patient with Wojo, because if we are, it is a given that he will be come the next Jay Wright!

Glad you think so! You are the only one who thinks that. But I'm glad you do!
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: tower912 on March 31, 2018, 09:39:09 PM
Rapid healing. Time in the weight room.  A grad transfer point guard with size.   Commitment to defense.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on March 31, 2018, 09:31:58 PM
They are good teams that play in mid-major conferences. No stones, just facts.
If they are mid major programs than so are we.

Greg Marshall Salary 3,300,000. Mick Cronin Salary 2,200,000  Mark Few Salary 1,900,000.

Record of achievement  for these schools far exceeds ours.

Cincinnati has a more extensive investment in athletics than every team in the Big East. Wichita State is backed by Billionaires who will pay whatever it takes to keep that program at a high level. Gonzaga twenty year straight in the NCAA with very good performance.






Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: warriorchick on March 31, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
Everyone on the team watching Villanova game film to learn how to move on offense.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on March 31, 2018, 09:45:54 PM
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
All of this is very well thought out. I would point out that Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Wichita State are not Mid Majors. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

Mid Major is a league distinction, not a team distinction. The WCC and AAC are mid-majors, thus every team in those leagues are mid-major.

They are high level teams, but their league affiliation would give us the advantage that would allow us to dictate getting the home game first.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 31, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 09:44:55 PM
If they are mid major programs than so are we.

No we're not. Mid and high major is determined by what conference you play in. Gonzaga, Wichita State, and Cincinnati play in mid-major conferences. They are also better programs than we are right now. But we are also a high major program. All three things are true.

Honestly, it's a compliment to them given that they've had this level of success despite playing in mid-major conferences.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2018, 10:46:12 PM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on March 31, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
No we're not. Mid and high major is determined by what conference you play in. Gonzaga, Wichita State, and Cincinnati play in mid-major conferences. They are also better programs than we are right now. But we are also a high major program. All three things are true.

Honestly, it's a compliment to them given that they've had this level of success despite playing in mid-major conferences.

Your opinion. I disagree. Calling DePaul, Rutgers and BC "high majors" and Gonzaga and Cincinnati "mid majors" doesn't pass the logic or smell test IMO.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: MU82 on March 31, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2018, 10:46:12 PM
Your opinion. I disagree. Calling DePaul, Rutgers and BC "high majors" and Gonzaga and Cincinnati "mid majors" doesn't pass the logic or smell test IMO.

Gotta say I agree with Lenny on this.

I know it's just semantics, but pretty much every basketball fan I know would consider "mid-major" to be an insult for the likes of Gonzaga, UConn, Cinci and Wichita State.

Because the Big East is not a P5 football conference, there are plenty of folks who think our league is now a mid-major. Obviously, nobody here agrees with that.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 31, 2018, 11:16:52 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2018, 10:46:12 PM
Your opinion. I disagree. Calling DePaul, Rutgers and BC "high majors" and Gonzaga and Cincinnati "mid majors" doesn't pass the logic or smell test IMO.

Quote from: MU82 on March 31, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
Gotta say I agree with Lenny on this.

I know it's just semantics, but pretty much every basketball fan I know would consider "mid-major" to be an insult for the likes of Gonzaga, UConn, Cinci and Wichita State.

Mid and high major has nothing to do with the team. Just the conference. Rutgers and DePaul play in a high major conference. Cincy and Gonzaga play in a mid-major conference. Cincy and Gonzaga have programs that are lightyears better than Rutgers and DePaul. All three things are true.

Quote from: MU82 on March 31, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
Because the Big East is not a P5 football conference, there are plenty of folks who think our league is now a mid-major. Obviously, nobody here agrees with that.

That's fine. Those people are wrong. The Big East is a high major conference as it is consistently in the top 6 conferences...in fact I don't think it's been lower than 4th since its creation. The AAC and WCC are mid-major conferences. The AAC has not been higher than 7th ever....and I don't think the WCC has either but would have to check.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2018, 12:26:51 AM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on March 31, 2018, 11:16:52 PM
Mid and high major has nothing to do with the team. Just the conference. Rutgers and DePaul play in a high major conference. Cincy and Gonzaga play in a mid-major conference. Cincy and Gonzaga have programs that are lightyears better than Rutgers and DePaul. All three things are true.

That's fine. Those people are wrong. The Big East is a high major conference as it is consistently in the top 6 conferences...in fact I don't think it's been lower than 4th since its creation. The AAC and WCC are mid-major conferences. The AAC has not been higher than 7th ever....and I don't think the WCC has either but would have to check.

+1

If that insults them, they should join better leagues. They are quality programs but still in mid-major leagues and thus mid-major programs. I would argue Cincinnati and Gonzaga are currently top-25 programs, but still mid-major. It is strictly a league designation based on league performance and league wide revenue.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: willie warrior on April 01, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
Quote from: warriorchick on March 31, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
Everyone on the team watching Villanova game film to learn how to move on offense.
And Wojo eyeballing Wright to enhance his offense genius prowess. It must be the flashy suits Wright wears. Kind of like a super hero with capes/costumes.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: We R Final Four on April 01, 2018, 07:49:15 AM
So UConn can be both a mid major and a blue blood?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: dgies9156 on April 01, 2018, 07:53:19 AM
Quote from: warriorchick on March 31, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
Everyone on the team watching Villanova game film to learn how to move on offense.

Absolutely.

Maybe we also need to watch Loyola to see how to play as a team and forget about this hero ball stuff.

And everyone learning to play defense! We're also rans unless our defense improves markedly next year.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2018, 07:53:41 AM
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on April 01, 2018, 07:49:15 AM
So UConn can be both a mid major and a blue blood?

This is exactly what I thought when reading this. What an odd way to draw the line. 
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2018, 08:23:21 AM
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on April 01, 2018, 07:49:15 AM
So UConn can be both a mid major and a blue blood?

Yes. I'd say Memphis under Cal was damn close to that too. You can't tell me anyone considered CUSA a high major after we left for the Big East.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on April 01, 2018, 08:58:24 AM
First, we need to stop with these labels. Second, the AAC is not a mid-major league league.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 01, 2018, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: MU82 on March 31, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
Because the Big East is not a P5 football conference, there are plenty of folks who think our league is now a mid-major. Obviously, nobody here agrees with that.

I know you don't think the Big East is a mid-major, but I have never heard, read or seen anywhere the Big East referred to as a mid-major. In fact there have been many articles, blogs, etc. making the case for the Big East as the best conference in college hoops. If those "plenty of folks" are random internet posters, then I can point to just as many who think the Big 10, Pac 12 and SEC are mid-major. 
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on April 01, 2018, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: dgies9156 on April 01, 2018, 07:53:19 AM
Absolutely.

Maybe we also need to watch Loyola to see how to play as a team and forget about this hero ball stuff.

And everyone learning to play defense! We're also rans unless our defense improves markedly next year.

Yeah!

[Checks efficiency ratings, sees Loyola's offense is #63 while ours is #13]

We gotta learn offense from Loyola!
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on April 01, 2018, 07:49:15 AM
So UConn can be both a mid major and a blue blood?

Theoretically yes. But I don't think they are a blue blood. I'm not sure anyone outside of Storrs does. I think they were close to having the resume of a blue blood a few years ago, but they are quickly losing steam.

Again, mid-major has nothing to do with the individual team. It's about the conference. It's not that hard to understand.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on April 01, 2018, 08:58:24 AM
First, we need to stop with these labels. Second, the AAC is not a mid-major league league.

Show your work. What makes them a high major?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: WarriorFan on April 01, 2018, 09:36:31 AM
Back to the subject: 

Off season wish list:
- Grad Transfer PG
- Frosh PG (preferably top 15)
- Healing
- Player Development
- Less negativity on Scoop
- A Fast Forward button to the first week of November!
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2018, 09:45:32 AM
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on April 01, 2018, 08:58:24 AM
First, we need to stop with these labels. Second, the AAC is not a mid-major league league.

The worst team in the Big East per Pomeroy was DePaul at #100. More than half of their teams are worse than DePaul. In the conference ratings, they are a lot closer to the 9th place Valley than the 6th place Pac-12 (and closer to the 17th placed Big Sky than the 5th placed Big 10).
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on April 01, 2018, 09:32:35 AM
Again, mid-major has nothing to do with the individual team. It's about the conference. It's not that hard to understand.

So, your position is that Gonzaga and Cincinnati are mid-major programs, while Rutgers and Oregon State are high-majors?
Or Tarkanian's UNLV teams in the 80s and 90s were mid-major, but the Northwestern teams that averaged 9 wins a season during the 80s and 90s was a high-major program?
That's actually very hard to understand.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: warriorchick on April 01, 2018, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
So, your position is that Gonzaga and Cincinnati are mid-major programs, while Rutgers and Oregon State are high-majors?
Or Tarkanian's UNLV teams in the 80s and 90s were mid-major, but the Northwestern teams that averaged 9 wins a season during the 80s and 90s was a high-major program?
That's actually very hard to understand.

There are no high-major and mid-major teams; only high-major and mid-major conferences.

The term "high-major team" is shorthand for "team that is in a high-major conference".
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on April 01, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on April 01, 2018, 09:35:42 AM
Show your work. What makes them a high major?
Multiple bid league with Memphis, UConn and Temple struggling.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: warriorchick on April 01, 2018, 09:56:21 AM
There are no high-major and mid-major teams; only high-major and mid-major conferences.

The term "high-major team" is shorthand for "team that is in a high-major conference".

Says who?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: willie warrior on April 01, 2018, 10:17:53 AM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on March 31, 2018, 09:32:24 PM
Glad you think so! You are the only one who thinks that. But I'm glad you do!
No, you are wrong. several have hinted at that as their rationale about Wojo. They have me convinced. Sorry that you have not had that Kool Aid...yet.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2018, 10:27:35 AM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on March 31, 2018, 11:16:52 PM
Mid and high major has nothing to do with the team. Just the conference. Rutgers and DePaul play in a high major conference. Cincy and Gonzaga play in a mid-major conference. Cincy and Gonzaga have programs that are lightyears better than Rutgers and DePaul. All three things are true.



IMHO this defies logic. I think conferences and programs are separate entities. The Big East and the Big Ten are considered high majors because MOST, not all of its members are high major programs. The converse is true For the WAC and the AAC. Nothing illogical with a mid major conference having one or more high major (or even elite major) program in it. Nor is it illogical for a high major conference to contain one or more mid major program. Common sense says a program is more than its conference affiliation IMO.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2018, 10:29:03 AM
Quote from: warriorchick on April 01, 2018, 09:56:21 AM
There are no high-major and mid-major teams; only high-major and mid-major conferences.

The term "high-major team" is shorthand for "team that is in a high-major conference".

Illogical. And it's not "team", it's program.

When we were the #2 program in all of college basketball for over a decade were we a mid or low major program? UNLV under Tark too? Universals that provide simple answers are tempting - and usually wrong.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: We R Final Four on April 01, 2018, 11:56:48 AM
AAC #6
Pac 12 #7.

So, is this the one off year?
What if AAC is #5 next year and Pac 12 #7/8? 

By the reasoning of some--IF conference based, not team based, those teams in the AAC should NOT be considered mid major and the teams in the Pac 12 should be considered mid major. 

No one will consider the teams in the Pac 12 mid major, even though they have been passed up by a mid major conference.  At what point do you make this switch? When does the AAC become considered a high major?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2018, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on April 01, 2018, 11:56:48 AM
AAC #6
Pac 12 #7.

So, is this the one off year?
What if AAC is #5 next year and Pac 12 #7/8? 

By the reasoning of some--IF conference based, not team based, those teams in the AAC should NOT be considered mid major and the teams in the Pac 12 should be considered mid major. 

No one will consider the teams in the Pac 12 mid major, even though they have been passed up by a mid major conference.  At what point do you make this switch? When does the AAC become considered a high major?

Consistency and revenue both matter. One year won't change a landscape. But for the AAC, it's a major indictment that their all sports (including football) is less than the Big East contract without football.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on April 01, 2018, 11:56:48 AM
AAC #6
Pac 12 #7.

So, is this the one off year?
What if AAC is #5 next year and Pac 12 #7/8? 

By the reasoning of some--IF conference based, not team based, those teams in the AAC should NOT be considered mid major and the teams in the Pac 12 should be considered mid major. 

No one will consider the teams in the Pac 12 mid major, even though they have been passed up by a mid major conference.  At what point do you make this switch? When does the AAC become considered a high major?

Where did you get those numbers?

https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference

Pac 12 is 5th, B1G is 6th, AAC is 7th

And one year doesn't make a difference. There was a year where the MWC was #1. The A10 has been as high as #4. They are still mid-major correct?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on April 01, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
Multiple bid league with Memphis, UConn and Temple struggling.

So if it's a multiple bid league it's a high major? That would make the A10, MWC, MVC (some years), and WCC high major conferences.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: We R Final Four on April 01, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on April 01, 2018, 02:18:55 PM
Where did you get those numbers?

https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference

Pac 12 is 5th, B1G is 6th, AAC is 7th

And one year doesn't make a difference. There was a year where the MWC was #1. The A10 has been as high as #4. They are still mid-major correct?
How many years does a conference need to be better than another high major to be considered no longer mid major?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 02:27:47 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2018, 10:27:35 AM
IMHO this defies logic. I think conferences and programs are separate entities. The Big East and the Big Ten are considered high majors because MOST, not all of its members are high major programs. The converse is true For the WAC and the AAC. Nothing illogical with a mid major conference having one or more high major (or even elite major) program in it. Nor is it illogical for a high major conference to contain one or more mid major program. Common sense says a program is more than its conference affiliation IMO.

You're changing the definition of the words. High, mid, and low major are descriptors for conferences, not for programs. High major program is shorthand for program that plays in a high major conference.

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
So, your position is that Gonzaga and Cincinnati are mid-major programs, while Rutgers and Oregon State are high-majors?
Or Tarkanian's UNLV teams in the 80s and 90s were mid-major, but the Northwestern teams that averaged 9 wins a season during the 80s and 90s was a high-major program?
That's actually very hard to understand.

Yes. Northwestern, Oregon State, and Rutgers all play in high major conferences. That does not inherently make them better programs than Gonzaga, Cincinnati, or UNLV who all play in mid major conferences.

For some people it seems like mid-major is an insult to the program. It's not. It's just a way to distinguish between different levels of conferences. You can be a very good program and play in a mid-major conference.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 02:32:16 PM
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on April 01, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
How many years does a conference need to be better than another high major to be considered no longer mid major?

I don't know. I would imagine until its the rule and not the exception.

The reality is, the AAC has NEVER been rated higher than 7th. They have a lot more in common with the MWC, A10, WCC, and MVC than they do with the P6. If UConn, Memphis, and Temple turn it around like Mr. Nielsen pointed out....without upstarts like SMU and Houston going back to normal....and they start regularly beating out P6 conferences in the rankings, I will gladly call them high major. Until then, they are the WCC of the East.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on April 01, 2018, 02:27:47 PM
You're changing the definition of the words. High, mid, and low major are descriptors for conferences, not for programs. High major program is shorthand for program that plays in a high major conference.

Yes. Northwestern, Oregon State, and Rutgers all play in high major conferences. That does not inherently make them better programs than Gonzaga, Cincinnati, or UNLV who all play in mid major conferences.

For some people it seems like mid-major is an insult to the program. It's not. It's just a way to distinguish between different levels of conferences. You can be a very good program and play in a mid-major conference.

This all seems so arbitrary and disconnected from reality.
While you may choose to use "high-major" and "mid-major" only to describe conference, that's not how many, if not the majority, in the sports world views it.
Just Google "Gonzaga mid major" and you'll find numerous articles debating whether Gonzaga is a mid- or high-major program. Those discussions would obviously not exist if, as you say, there were no such thing as mid- or high-major programs. And yet there they are.
I think it's fair to say the terms are used both for conferences and individual programs.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 01, 2018, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
This all seems so arbitrary and disconnected from reality.
While you may choose to use "high-major" and "mid-major" only to describe conference, that's not how many, if not the majority, in the sports world views it.
Just Google "Gonzaga mid major" and you'll find numerous articles debating whether Gonzaga is a mid- or high-major program. Those discussions would obviously not exist if, as you say, there were no such thing as mid- or high-major programs. And yet there they are.
I think it's fair to say the terms are used both for conferences and individual programs.

If Gonzaga were to experience a good buy not great year (like St Mary's) they would not make the tournament. This is the sign of a mid major. Your conference can't help you out so in order to stay on top you cannot afford an average year.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 01, 2018, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
This all seems so arbitrary and disconnected from reality.
While you may choose to use "high-major" and "mid-major" only to describe conference, that's not how many, if not the majority, in the sports world views it.
Just Google "Gonzaga mid major" and you'll find numerous articles debating whether Gonzaga is a mid- or high-major program. Those discussions would obviously not exist if, as you say, there were no such thing as mid- or high-major programs. And yet there they are.
I think it's fair to say the terms are used both for conferences and individual programs.

I think a lot of people misuse a lot of words. But you make a good point. I, Brew, and Chick have all explained what we mean by mid-major. We use it only in reference to the conference. It has nothing to do with the quality of the individual programs that make up the conferences. We can have different definitions and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on April 01, 2018, 02:53:15 PM
If Gonzaga were to experience a good buy not great year (like St Mary's) they would not make the tournament. This is the sign of a mid major. Your conference can't help you out so in order to stay on top you cannot afford an average year.

By this definition, the Pac-12 is a mid-major and the AAC is a high-major.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2018, 03:53:42 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
This all seems so arbitrary and disconnected from reality.
While you may choose to use "high-major" and "mid-major" only to describe conference, that's not how many, if not the majority, in the sports world views it.
Just Google "Gonzaga mid major" and you'll find numerous articles debating whether Gonzaga is a mid- or high-major program. Those discussions would obviously not exist if, as you say, there were no such thing as mid- or high-major programs. And yet there they are.
I think it's fair to say the terms are used both for conferences and individual programs.

I think it's actually very non-arbitrary. For the most part, the same conferences have been high-major for decades. Team movement has impacted which programs are high vs mid major, but the leagues really haven't changed.

The Big East, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, SEC, & Pac-12 have been the big leagues dating back to the 1980s. Occasionally leagues will try to break in, like C-USA, the Mountain West, or now the AAC, but an inability to sustain has prevented that from happening.

The other factor with those leagues that is a consistent differentiator is money. Teams in the lower tier leagues have never generated the interest or income of the consistent top-6.

The more questionable aspect is mid-major vs low-major. I would think the difference is the ability to earn at large bids. I'd include the AAC, A10, WCC, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, and maybe CUSA. Does anyone else qualify? Not sure.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 01, 2018, 03:53:42 PM
I think it's actually very non-arbitrary. For the most part, the same conferences have been high-major for decades. Team movement has impacted which programs are high vs mid major, but the leagues really haven't changed.

What I'm suggesting is arbitrary is making the terms high-major and mid-major exclusive to conferences and not programs, though we can find dozens of examples of it being used for programs out there in the established sports media (i.e. ESPN, SI, etc.)
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: source? on April 01, 2018, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2018, 04:47:52 PM
What I'm suggesting is arbitrary is making the terms high-major and mid-major exclusive to conferences and not programs, though we can find dozens of examples of it being used for programs out there in the established sports media (i.e. ESPN, SI, etc.)

I think "mid-major" programs often get the "high-major" label/treatment when they perform at a high level for a long period of time. However, if they lose their coach and return to poor performances they return to "mid-major" status, therefore proving they never were "high-major." Conversely, no matter how long Rutgers continues to perform at a "low-major" level, they will never be called "low-major" in the media due to conference affiliation.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: MU82 on April 01, 2018, 06:10:39 PM
Semantic silliness.

And nothing to do with the thread title.

My off-season wish list includes less silly arguments over semantics on Scoop. Then again, it's the off-season. So what the hey. Argue away!
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on April 01, 2018, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on April 01, 2018, 02:20:04 PM
So if it's a multiple bid league it's a high major? That would make the A10, MWC, MVC (some years), and WCC high major conferences.
In some cases.
Is the new label rankings power leagues, high major, mid major and low major.
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: jesmu84 on April 01, 2018, 07:00:22 PM
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 31, 2018, 06:52:49 PM
A healthy recovery from surgery for Ike.

Do we have ANY info on what type of back/spine surgery he had?
Title: Re: Off-season wish list
Post by: Newsdreams on April 02, 2018, 02:18:14 PM
Quote from: MU82 on April 01, 2018, 06:10:39 PM
Semantic silliness.

And nothing to do with the thread title.

My off-season wish list includes less silly arguments over semantics on Scoop. Then again, it's the off-season. So what the hey. Argue away!
More Arby's
EhPortal 1.39.9 © 2025, WebDev