MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on March 23, 2018, 06:34:12 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_Moser
I am very happy for him and for Loyola. Has clearly paid his dues. Barely over .500 as the coach at UALR and Illinois State over 7 years. Majerus hires him. Under .500 at Loyola for his first 6 years. Everything falls together this year and he is now the hot mid major coach. Again, I am very happy for him and Loyola. But if you look at his resume' prior to this season, what there would tell you that he was ready to go to Xavier?
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Nothing, because he probably isn't. Moser has had a great run, but if Xavier does have to replace Mack, that wouldn't be where I'd expect them to start.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_Moser
I am very happy for him and for Loyola. Has clearly paid his dues. Barely over .500 as the coach at UALR and Illinois State over 7 years. Majerus hires him. Under .500 at Loyola for his first 6 years. Everything falls together this year and he is now the hot mid major coach. Again, I am very happy for him and Loyola. But if you look at his resume' prior to this season, what there would tell you that he was ready to go to Xavier?
I guess not, is his name really coming up for vacancies at this point? Prior to this year, in ten previous consecutive seasons, he never had a winning record in conference play and some years were just terrible. Based on that alone, I'm surprised he is still around and Loyola stuck with him. This year has been very good and the country rooting for them as the cinderella team, but who knows.
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Right. I mean is he really the next great mid-major coach? Or is he actually just having his "Keno Davis Moment."
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I was thinking John Groce, but you can go with Keno Davis. If Loyola misses the shot at the end of the Miami game, is anybody talking about him?
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Forgot about Keno Davis.
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Entirely different than Keno. Keno had served for 16 yrs as an asst at various stops including under his father, whom i really enjoyed watching coach. Then in his first year as a head coach had an absolutely marvelous year at Drake and parlayed that into tge Providence job. Mirror image of Moser?
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Entirely different than Keno. Keno had served for 16 yrs as an asst at various stops including under his father, whom i really enjoyed watching coach. Then in his first year as a head coach had an absolutely marvelous year at Drake and parlayed that into tge Providence job. Mirror image of Moser?
Didn't say he was a mirror image. Just that sometimes programs take a look at a mid-major making a deep run in a tournament and hiring that guy regardless of fit.
Keno Davis to Providence. Stan Heath to Arkansas. (I think the Groce hire was defensible given that he was a Big Ten assistant for years under Matta.)
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Based on the way the system works, he is bound to get high major offers in the offseason, if he isn't getting them already.
Let's see him win a championship with Loyola and then reconsider if Xavier should hire him 8-)
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This isn't just some lucky deep run. Loyola is very, very good and it is due in a very large part because they are very, very well coached. Very few bad decisions, very few forced shots, everything is fundamental. Other than their version of Davante Gardner, everyone who plays can handle the ball and shoot the ball. And they play some awesome team and individual defense. They are 29-2 when Clayton Custer has been available this year. Whether they beat Miami and made this run or not, they had a great season.
But a system like his takes a long time to develop. They rely on being fundamental and playing smart basketball. That's not something that is done overnight when a new coach takes over a program. If he gets high major offers, those high majors better be willing to give him some leash or he'll fail.
Heck, he might be a better fit at Louisville than at Xavier. Bring in a guy and give him 6-8 years to do a total rebuild. Take lesser talent due to negative recruiting and possible NCAA penalties and put in your system to get some wins.
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At the end of that 6-8 year window, he will be 58. And patient fanbases are a rarity.
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At the end of that 6-8 year window, he will be 58. And patient fanbases are a rarity.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Q09lToTa0H3Es/giphy.gif)
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Porter has upside and I believe he will either build on this years success at Loyola or will be successful elsewhere. Without a doubt he is a very smart basketball coach, judging by how his team plays. Granted, I have only seen three games and not six years of Loyola ball. That said, it appears that he learned a great deal from Rick, and Rick was one of the smartest basketball minds over his last 15-20 years coaching. For those do not believe me, please google the NBA coaches that looked to Rick as a mentor.
The three things that Moser has that Rick did not, good looks, high energy and likability to the masses. Rick was very likable to a segment of the population, but not across the board, with the exception of his Utah run to NC game. Rick was liked by many insiders and was popular across the board for two weeks.
For me, I hope Moser follows in Rick's footsteps and stays at Loyola. Rick loved coaching basketball and often recruited players that I thought were D3 players, but he knew how to coach the game. Rick would prefer to coach at St. Mary's than UCLA when he got older. I hope Moser does the same. Regardless, I think it is a great story and hope it continues. Rick was a big part of my family's life and I see Rick's coaching in Moser.
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I don't know Porter Moser. Don't know anything about him except what I've read this last week or so. Those who do know him say he's a good guy. And no matter how many good bounces might have come Loyola's way this postseason, a team doesn't have this kind of postseason run - or the kind of regular season Loyola did - without having been well-coached.
Having said all that ...
Lots of people here talk about a coach's body of work. And by most any measure, Moser's body of work has sucked.
Few Scoopers would have supported him getting even a 4th year at either Illinois State or Loyola, and even patient "Wojo loyalists" types (like me), would have given him the thumb after his sixth straight year with a losing conference record at Loyola.
He's having a run. A helluva run. And it indeed might lead to a high-major coaching job for him. That's fine with me (as if anybody's asking). It's the American way. Unlike Goose, I hope he takes it if he indeed wants such a challenge. In life, you strike while the iron is hot ... and it's hard to believe Moser's iron ever will be hotter.
To assume Loyola has turned some kind of corner or that Moser suddenly has become one of the great coaches in college basketball, that is, for lack of better terms ... wait for it! ... dumb and dangerous.
Seriously, just as nobody really knows how good or bad Wojo is - we all have opinions, but nobody really knows yet - how could anybody really know how good or bad a coach Porter Moser is based on his body of work?
Amazing run, though. Three NCAA tourney wins by a total of 4 points. One of the great Cinderella stories of recent vintage. I'm rooting for them, and I'm not jealous of them at all.
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MU82
Great post. I would have zero problem if he chased his dream or money elsewhere. I guess, maybe I am hoping there are still guys out there that simply love coaching. I do not personal situation, how much he makes at Loyola or how driven he is to be elsewhere or money driven. The college game has plenty of warts and that gets old to me. Seeing a feel good story on TV has renewed my excitement in college ball.
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Do people actually think Moser would be considered for Xavier or is that just Scoop Logic?
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Potential for Pitt? He'd presumably get a long leash with the complete rebuild they need, and no way Custer follows him into that Dumpster fire...
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Do people actually think Moser would be considered for Xavier or is that just Scoop Logic?
Travis Steele would take over at X is my guess.
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Moser's salary is 420K per year.
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Moser's salary is 420K per year.
So yeah, he could triple or quadruple (or more) that pretty easily.
I agree with Goose that it's nice when "love of game" outweighs money, but it's hard for anybody in any profession to turn down that kind of raise.
But again, we don't even know who will be calling him, if anybody. Nor do we know how much he values the relative lack of pressure in a situation like Loyola.
Here in NC, Davidson coach Bob McKillop had numerous opportunities to go elsewhere. He just likes it here, he makes good money (relative to the rest of society even if not relative to his peers), and he can coach without the drumbeat of insane pressure day after day, year after year. The most pressure he faces is the pressure he puts on himself to succeed.
To many, that's very valuable - more valuable than money. As I said, I don't know Porter Moser, so I can't possibly know how he values that.
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Here in NC, Davidson coach Bob McKillop had numerous opportunities to go elsewhere. He just likes it here, he makes good money (relative to the rest of society even if not relative to his peers), and he can coach without the drumbeat of insane pressure day after day, year after year. The most pressure he faces is the pressure he puts on himself to succeed.
He's just waiting for Davidson to get that Big East invite.
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One of the things Moser's story illuminates is how experience matters. He's on his 3rd HC gig. He went to "grad school" with Majerus.
I think the best coaching hire this DECADE is Danny Hurley to UConn. He's been at two different schools, elevated both of them. He ran two programs and did so by recruiting over his school's level. Last decade, I would say Beilein to Michigan.
This rush to hire the hot assistant or the next Shaka is, to me, just moving people too fast.
If we're ever in the position of hiring a coach again, I would start shopping in the A-10, Mo Valley or Mountain West conferences, I would find a successful coach in one of those conferences who had previous head coaching experience.
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One of the things Moser's story illuminates is how experience matters. He's on his 3rd HC gig. He went to "grad school" with Majerus.
I think the best coaching hire this DECADE is Danny Hurley to UConn. He's been at two different schools, elevated both of them. He ran two programs and did so by recruiting over his school's level. Last decade, I would say Beilein to Michigan.
This rush to hire the hot assistant or the next Shaka is, to me, just moving people too fast.
If we're ever in the position of hiring a coach again, I would start shopping in the A-10, Mo Valley or Mountain West conferences, I would find a successful coach in one of those conferences who had previous head coaching experience.
I will point out that our three most successful post-Al coaches were from the assistant ranks. (Granted Buzz had one year at UNO.) And Wojo might make it four.
Our two least successful post-Al coaches had previous head coaching experience.
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I will point out that our three most successful post-Al coaches were from the assistant ranks. (Granted Buzz had one year at UNO.) And Wojo might make it four.
Our two least successful post-Al coaches had previous head coaching experience.
In all fairness is anybody shocked that Dukiet didn't work out? The guy had three "ok" seasons at St Peters but wasn't exactly running the conference like we'd look for now.
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I was thinking John Groce, but you can go with Keno Davis. If Loyola misses the shot at the end of the Miami game, is anybody talking about him?
At least Davis and Moser have played really well throughout their conference schedules. Groce had to win the MAC tournament for both of his NCAA bids.
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I will point out that our three most successful post-Al coaches were from the assistant ranks. (Granted Buzz had one year at UNO.) And Wojo might make it four.
Our two least successful post-Al coaches had previous head coaching experience.
That's not lost on me. It's why I advocated for coaches who had multiple head coaching stops. I also think this approach could lead to stopping the stepping stone situation.
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Lens
If the program has some clout, I would always shoot for HC experience and proven HC experience. Unfortunately, MU struck out their two HC hires and struck out badly. I chalk that up to them not having a clue on what to do vs. the idea of hiring a guy with HC experience. Dukiet was last resort because of timing and Deane got the job based off a KO recommendation. Not the greatest process in place at those two times in history.
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Prior to this year, Moser was 33-73 in conference play at LUC. At Illinois State, he went 22-50 in 4 years in conference. They have a really good team this year. Fun to watch and could legitimately go to the Final Four. But this is the first time in his career he improved his team's Pomeroy ranking in back to back years. It's his first winning conference record since Marquette was in the Final Four in 2003.
Maybe Moser is a good coach. But based on his history, it looks a lot more like he stumbled on lightning in a bottle. I'd be surprised if he replicated this success at any future high major because he hasn't shown he can replicate or sustain success at the low or mid major jobs he's had.
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Prior to this year, Moser was 33-73 in conference play at LUC. At Illinois State, he went 22-50 in 4 years in conference. They have a really good team this year. Fun to watch and could legitimately go to the Final Four. But this is the first time in his career he improved his team's Pomeroy ranking in back to back years. It's his first winning conference record since Marquette was in the Final Four in 2003.
Maybe Moser is a good coach. But based on his history, it looks a lot more like he stumbled on lightning in a bottle. I'd be surprised if he replicated this success at any future high major because he hasn't shown he can replicate or sustain success at the low or mid major jobs he's had.
I think if he stays he does the every four year plan for success as opposed to building a perennial MVC contender like Wichita or Creighton were.
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So yeah, he could triple or quadruple (or more) that pretty easily.
I agree with Goose that it's nice when "love of game" outweighs money, but it's hard for anybody in any profession to turn down that kind of raise.
But again, we don't even know who will be calling him, if anybody. Nor do we know how much he values the relative lack of pressure in a situation like Loyola.
Here in NC, Davidson coach Bob McKillop had numerous opportunities to go elsewhere. He just likes it here, he makes good money (relative to the rest of society even if not relative to his peers), and he can coach without the drumbeat of insane pressure day after day, year after year. The most pressure he faces is the pressure he puts on himself to succeed.
To many, that's very valuable - more valuable than money. As I said, I don't know Porter Moser, so I can't possibly know how he values that.
And before the tourney even started, Pres of Loyola with whom Moser seems to have an excellent relationship said she knew that he was going to be getting a raise--I would guess even if he stays put he'll be making double.
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Porter Moser would not check enough boxes for me as a MU coach. I would want a recruiter, with HS experience, like Dan Hurley.
I think Porter should stay at Loyola. He could probably retire there if he wants. Don't mess with happy.
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Prior to this year, Moser was 33-73 in conference play at LUC. At Illinois State, he went 22-50 in 4 years in conference. They have a really good team this year. Fun to watch and could legitimately go to the Final Four. But this is the first time in his career he improved his team's Pomeroy ranking in back to back years. It's his first winning conference record since Marquette was in the Final Four in 2003.
Maybe Moser is a good coach. But based on his history, it looks a lot more like he stumbled on lightning in a bottle. I'd be surprised if he replicated this success at any future high major because he hasn't shown he can replicate or sustain success at the low or mid major jobs he's had.
This is 100% where I am on Moser, too.
Right now, with all of the information we have - especially his body of work - this can only reasonably be considered a "lightning in a bottle" situation. It is up to him to prove it isn't. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a chance to prove it at a different school, because that's usually how things work in that profession.
As for the HC vs assistant debate ... I know many Scoopers don't like some things about KO, Crean and Buzz, but I think most will agree that all 3 of those guys hired from the assistant ranks worked out OK for MU, no? Izzo worked out OK for Michigan State, too! Plenty of examples of it not working out for schools as well, I'm aware of that.