Without an immediately eligible PG transfer next year, I'd go with:
M2N: 30
Cain: 25
Sam: 30
Joey: 25
Morrow: 30
Elliott: 20
Theo: 20
Heldt: 10-15
Everyone else on a stutaional as-needed basis
Run a 3/2 zone with M2N & Elliott at the top, Cain & Sam on wings shading in on penetration & helping on P&R, Morrow/Joey/Theo/Heldt on the blocks.
That's a top 3 BEast team with the talent everyone else is losing this summer. Add a high level grad transfer PG and we're conference favorites IMHO.
Sacar done did disappeared again
MU zone was horrible this year, we are not Syracuse when it comes to length
No Froling?
Where's Sacar? ;D
Also, is there a single team in college basketball that runs a 3-2 zone as it's base defense?
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 21, 2018, 01:33:08 PM
Sacar done did disappeared again
You missed him in the "others receiving votes" section
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 21, 2018, 01:45:11 PM
Where's Sacar? ;D
Also, is there a single team in college basketball that runs a 3-2 zone as it's base defense?
To quote Leon Phelps, there's a first time for everythang
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 21, 2018, 01:52:11 PM
You missed him in the "others receiving votes" section
So he's going from a 27 mpg player down to situational player? I highly doubt that.
I also doubt that Matt and Theo are going to basically reverse roles next year.
I'll be interested to see how we use Morrow, but i'd be surprised to use him primarily at the 5. I expect a good chunk of time as a 4 next to a Theo or Heldt. Really depends on if he can stretch the defense even a little bit.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 21, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
Without an immediately eligible PG transfer next year, I'd go with:
M2N: 30
Cain: 25
Sam: 30
Joey: 25
Morrow: 30
Elliott: 20
Theo: 20
Heldt: 10-15
Everyone else on a stutaional as-needed basis
Run a 3/2 zone with M2N & Elliott at the top, Cain & Sam on wings shading in on penetration & helping on P&R, Morrow/Joey/Theo/Heldt on the blocks.
That's a top 3 BEast team with the talent everyone else is losing this summer. Add a high level grad transfer PG and we're conference favorites IMHO.
M2N: 30 - agree
Cain: 25 - less, Anim probably gets 25
Sam: 30 - agree
Joey: 25 - maybe a little less
Morrow: 30 - agree
Elliott: 20 - agree
Theo: 20 - less
Heldt: 10-15- more
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 21, 2018, 01:52:11 PM
You missed him in the "others receiving votes" section
If Sacar drops from 27 mpg to garbage time, he will transfer.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 21, 2018, 02:02:36 PM
If Sacar drops from 27 mpg to garbage time, he will transfer.
Agreed, he'd probably grad transfer in that scenario
If Sacar is playing garbage time minutes we'll be either a.) terrible because our only good defender isn't playing or b.) really good because everyone else got good at defense.
He'll play a lot and he'll be pretty good IMO.
Quote from: KampusFoods on March 21, 2018, 02:09:22 PM
If Sacar is playing garbage time minutes we'll be either a.) terrible because our only good defender isn't playing or b.) really good because everyone else got good at defense.
He'll play a lot and he'll be pretty good IMO.
I think the added length (6'8" across the board), strength, and talent coming in will be a huge boon to the defense, so Sacar will be less necessary. If he improves his 3 ball and finishing ability around the rim, I could see him in the 15 minute range next season with a nice role carved out. I like the guy, good nose for the game, and I hope he improves.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 21, 2018, 02:15:02 PM
I think the added length (6'8" across the board), strength, and talent coming in will be a huge boon to the defense, so Sacar will be less necessary. If he improves his 3 ball and finishing ability around the rim, I could see him in the 15 minute range next season with a nice role carved out. I like the guy, good nose for the game, and I hope he improves.
If you see him in a 15 mpg role, that might be worth mentioning in the OP, since you project that Matt will get at most the same minutes.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 21, 2018, 02:16:21 PM
If you see him in a 15 mpg role, that might be worth mentioning in the OP, since you project that Matt will get at most the same minutes.
My base case is that he does not improve the 3 ball enough. This offense depends on shooters. M2N/Jamal/Sam/Joey getting major minutes puts four 40%+ type 3 shooters on the court, 3 of whom have good size/length for their position. If he improves in that facet, then I could see it. Otherwise Bailey (6'8" with a rep for shooting) will likely play situationally along with him. I hope he's able to do it!
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 21, 2018, 02:24:02 PM
My base case is that he does not improve the 3 ball enough. This offense depends on shooters. M2N/Jamal/Sam/Joey getting major minutes puts four 40%+ type 3 shooters on the court, 3 of whom have good size/length for their position. If he improves in that facet, then I could see it. Otherwise Bailey (6'8" with a rep for shooting) will likely play situationally along with him. I hope he's able to do it!
Believe me, I was critical of Sacar earlier in the year, and I still don't think he has improved enough to be more than a role player, but he will see minutes next year, even if he does not improve his three point shooting. Sacar also should not be playing the same position as Markus, Sam, or Joey, so their ability to shoot the three should have no effect on his minutes. I see quite a few of Sacar's minutes going to Jamal and Greg, but he should still get 15 per.
Its my hope that sacar doesnt play much next year. That would bode well for the team. Hes not any good.
Drives well but finishes poorly and reallyb does little else well. I could see a combo of the new players n the returners taking most of his minutes. Unless joey is not any good he should step right in and take those minutes. Again i think he was prolly the worst 3 in the BE, if we have anyone to take his minutes this year they prolly do
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 21, 2018, 02:30:06 PM
Believe me, I was critical of Sacar earlier in the year, and I still don't think he has improved enough to be more than a role player, but he will see minutes next year, even if he does not improve his three point shooting. Sacar also should not be playing the same position as Markus, Sam, or Joey, so their ability to shoot the three should have no effect on his minutes. I see quite a few of Sacar's minutes going to Jamal and Greg, but he should still get 15 per.
I think Anim is going to be more valuable to next year's team than both Cain & Elliott. Unless Elliott is able to emerge as a viable PG option and Cain becomes more than a spot-up shooter, I think their minutes will stay the same.
Quote from: LAZER on March 21, 2018, 02:44:15 PM
I think Anim is going to be more valuable to next year's team than both Cain & Elliott. Unless Elliott is able to emerge as a viable PG option and Cain becomes more than a spot-up shooter, I think their minutes will stay the same.
IDK, 27 is a lot. The only ones that should be that close to 30 are Sam and Markus. Maybe Ed at 25, but until I see him play I'm trying to manage expectations. Also maybe the grad transfer, although again trying to manage expectations. Anim still has a role to play on this team, but I think it will be more of a first or second off the bench role
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 21, 2018, 02:48:55 PM
IDK, 27 is a lot. The only ones that should be that close to 30 are Sam and Markus. Maybe Ed at 25, but until I see him play I'm trying to manage expectations. Also maybe the grad transfer, although again trying to manage expectations. Anim still has a role to play on this team, but I think it will be more of a first or second off the bench role
Yeah it's all really hard to guess without knowing if there's another G/PG coming.
Quote from: LAZER on March 21, 2018, 02:59:56 PM
Yeah it's all really hard to guess without knowing if there's another G/PG coming.
Its also hard to predict minutes when we could in theory go 10+ deep depending on a bunch of things.
Harry staying/going
Ike's recovery
Joey being the real deal
Ed being the real deal
The amount of rust on Brendan
Quote from: LAZER on March 21, 2018, 02:44:15 PM
I think Anim is going to be more valuable to next year's team than both Cain & Elliott. Unless Elliott is able to emerge as a viable PG option and Cain becomes more than a spot-up shooter, I think their minutes will stay the same.
Those are things that I think will happen
Dont get the sacar love? He did what well??
He pkayed because he for the most part out played two rail thin teenagers. He literally apart from driving does nothing, including finishing those drives, well.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 21, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
Dont get the sacar love? He did what well??
He pkayed because he for the most part out played two rail thin teenagers. He literally apart from driving does nothing, including finishing those drives, well.
Not sure where you're getting this. Most posts other than your attacks on Sacar have been about trying to determine how much his minutes will go down. There seems to be an acceptance that they will go down, people are just guessing about how much.
I think he's a role player at best, but he does have a role to play on this team.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 21, 2018, 01:55:17 PM
So he's going from a 27 mpg player down to situational player? I highly doubt that.
I also doubt that Matt and Theo are going to basically reverse roles next year.
Agreed. Sacar's MPG may go down slightly, but there's no way he becomes an end of the bench cleanup guy. And if Matt doesn't start over Ed, he will be the first big off the bench.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2018, 04:58:28 PM
Agreed. Sacar's MPG may go down slightly, but there's no way he becomes an end of the bench cleanup guy. And if Matt doesn't start over Ed, he will be the first big off the bench.
I see both Matt and Ed starting, with either Theo, Sacar, or Jamal first off the bench.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 21, 2018, 05:01:47 PM
I see both Matt and Ed starting, with either Theo, Sacar, or Jamal first off the bench.
I could see that...with the decision about who comes in first changing based on fouls trouble and such.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2018, 05:09:09 PM
I could see that...with the decision about who comes in first changing based on fouls trouble and such.
Yea I truly hope that by the time conference play roles around Theo will be a good enough defender to start, I'm just not sure he'll get there fast enough. Either way I think he should end up averaging the most minutes of our centers.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 21, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
Dont get the sacar love? He did what well??
He pkayed because he for the most part out played two rail thin teenagers. He literally apart from driving does nothing, including finishing those drives, well.
I see Sacar as a classic glue guy. He works his butt off, isn't exceptional at any one aspect of the game, but is pretty decent at several. Teams need players like that to win.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 21, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
Dont get the sacar love? He did what well??
He pkayed because he for the most part out played two rail thin teenagers. He literally apart from driving does nothing, including finishing those drives, well.
2nd or 3rd best defender on the team IMHO. Will look even better when he doesn't have to compensate for Rowseys lack of D. His finishing ability and shooting showed improvement all season. If he can continue that, he could keep his role as a starter
Here is the dumb thing about this thread -- no one and I mean no one knows how our existing team will improve their game over the summer or how our incomings will affect the team.
A couple of thoughts:
1) Wojo himself was an also-ran for awhile at Duke until he went off one summer and worked on his game so hard, he cracked the starting line-up at Duke. Will any of our guys do that?
2) The freshman to sophomore transition will be key for our team. If Theo and Greg Elliott in particular make strides, we'll be for real. If they don't, Wojo has problems.
3) I'm lost -- like other posters -- at what our Warriors will look like -- until I know whether we have a real point guard next year. If we don't, God help Wojo because he's going to need it.
Here's my guess...
Markus - 30
Sam - 30
mystery PG - 20
Sacar - 20
Ed - 20
Greg - 15
Cain - 15
Joey - 15
Matt - 15
Theo - 15
Bailey - 3
Ike - 2
Quote from: Litehouse on March 22, 2018, 12:09:12 PM
Here's my guess...
Markus - 30
Sam - 30
mystery PG - 20
Sacar - 20
Ed - 20
Greg - 15
Cain - 15
Joey - 15
Matt - 15
Theo - 15
Bailey - 3
Ike - 2
I think this is pretty good except I don't see any way that Joey plays less than Sacar. I would switch those two around.
I would also bump Matt up to 20, but I don't know exactly where I would take that from.
I think Ike might surprise us a few times next season
Markus - 32 mpg
Sam - 32 mpg
Sacar - 22 mpg
Morrow - 22 mpg
Greg - 20 mpg
Heldt - 16 mpg
Theo - 16 mpg
Joey - 16 mpg
Jamal - 14 mpg
Harry - 12 mpg... in Australia
Bailey - 5 mpg
Ike - 4 mpg
Cam - 1 mpg
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 22, 2018, 02:26:10 PM
I think Ike might surprise us a few times next season
Has he been able to practice after back surgery? Let's hope he's fully recovered
Starting at beginning of the year:
Pg grad transfer/ Elliott
Markus*
Sam*
Matt
Ed*
Depending on matchups of the bench:
Sacar for Sam/Ed
Joey for Ed/Sam
Theo/Matt
Jamil
Bailey
Eke
*most minutes
Ok I see Bailey and Ike in some posts so they haven't also I assume. Still too many people expecting minutes. I think something going to give before December.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 21, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
Here is the dumb thing about this thread -- no one and I mean no one knows how our existing team will improve their game over the summer or how our incomings will affect the team.
A couple of thoughts:
1) Wojo himself was an also-ran for awhile at Duke until he went off one summer and worked on his game so hard, he cracked the starting line-up at Duke. Will any of our guys do that?
2) The freshman to sophomore transition will be key for our team. If Theo and Greg Elliott in particular make strides, we'll be for real. If they don't, Wojo has problems.
3) I'm lost -- like other posters -- at what our Warriors will look like -- until I know whether we have a real point guard next year. If we don't, God help Wojo because he's going to need it.
1) Wojo's Duke ascent = JFB's MU/NBA ascent. Dudes know how to work.
2)Think they handled the HS to D1 gig change ok, hyena?
3) Impending coaching carousel will lead to grad transfers for sure. Hope one will yield a PG.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 21, 2018, 01:55:17 PM
So he's going from a 27 mpg player down to situational player? I highly doubt that.
I also doubt that Matt and Theo are going to basically reverse roles next year.
Think you are right on both. And those are 2 reasons why we could be a far cry from an elite team again next year, adding in no PG. Love both Heldt and Anim for their hustle and defense, but neither would be major contributors to an elite team. We are getting the max out of Heldt given his skills. Theo still needs more development and is still likely to be near his max by his Jr. year. With Heldt, Anim and no decent PG, we will not reach the lofty expectations many here believe.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 21, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
Without an immediately eligible PG transfer next year, I'd go with:
M2N: 30
Cain: 25
Sam: 30
Joey: 25
Morrow: 30
Elliott: 20
Theo: 20
Heldt: 10-15
Everyone else on a stutaional as-needed basis
Run a 3/2 zone with M2N & Elliott at the top, Cain & Sam on wings shading in on penetration & helping on P&R, Morrow/Joey/Theo/Heldt on the blocks.
That's a top 3 BEast team with the talent everyone else is losing this summer. Add a high level grad transfer PG and we're conference favorites IMHO.
I love the optimism but I feel even with a grad transfer PG there's no way we're conference favorites as long as Villanova is there until we prove that we can finish above them. Even if they lose Bridges and Brunson they should return DiVincenzo, Booth, Spellman, Paschall, Gillespie, Cosby-Roundtree, im addition to some other potential returning contributors in Painter and Samuels, and they are adding a 5* pg in Quinerly to replace Brunson in addition to 2 Joey level recruits. They should be very good again and I expect them to have a 1 or 2 seed in the tournament next year. Other than them, I see Marquette as the team with the best potential to be second in conference
I think people are really underestimating Joey's talent and I think he starts and gets 25 MPG, even coming off the injury. I think an impact grad transfer PG will also start and take up 25 MPG. I see Cain passing Sacar in minutes next year as Cain has way more potential and I think he'll put it to use a take a big step forward. Heldt and Sacar will play less next year than they did this year in my opinion. Heldt isn't bad but with Morrow (6'7 but a load) Joey (6'8) and an improved Theo, I think a few guys will cut into his minutes next year as he has already seemingly reached his full potential. I think Morrow can handle starting at the 5 the same way Lazar was able to handle it, and he's even bigger than Lazar by an inch and 10 pounds. He's only 6'7 but a load at 235. I think Morrow and Joey won't be able to be kept out of the starting lineup because of how good they are which is why I'm putting Morrow at the 5. I see the lineup looking something like:
25 - grad transfer PG
30 - Markus
30 - Sam
25 - Joey
25 - Morrow
Beyond that it's hard to pick the rest of the minutes as I came up with 230 minutes in my original calculation out of 200 and didn't feel that I could realistically decrease the minutes for anybody. This is a VERY deep team if everyone returns (besides Froling) and it looks like they will be 12 deep including Ike and Bailey. This team could be very good if Wojo can get them to play defense, and Morrow should help with that. Hopefully the grad transfer PG is a defensive stud and that is the main thing that Wojo needs to focus on rather than replacing Rowsey's offense. With a defensive stud PG in addition to Morrow's hopefully good defense, things should be way more balanced to go along with the scoring prowess of mainly Markus and Sam. The two things I'm looking for from the grad transfer PG are defense and distributing abilities, scoring isn't as important.
The Morrow in the low 20s MPG talk is crazy. He, along with Markus and Sam, are going to be our best players.
Assuming no more players with immediate eligibility are added for next season:
Markus: 30
Sacar: 20
Sam: 30
Morrow: 30
Heldt: 20
Joey: 20
Theo: 15
Cain: 15
Greg: 15
Bailey: 5
Eke garbage time.
Quote from: Otule's Glass Eye on March 26, 2018, 10:42:36 AM
I think people are really underestimating Joey's talent and I think he starts and gets 25 MPG, even coming off the injury. I think an impact grad transfer PG will also start and take up 25 MPG. I see Cain passing Sacar in minutes next year as Cain has way more potential and I think he'll put it to use a take a big step forward. Heldt and Sacar will play less next year than they did this year in my opinion. Heldt isn't bad but with Morrow (6'7 but a load) Joey (6'8) and an improved Theo, I think a few guys will cut into his minutes next year as he has already seemingly reached his full potential. I think Morrow can handle starting at the 5 the same way Lazar was able to handle it, and he's even bigger than Lazar by an inch and 10 pounds. He's only 6'7 but a load at 235. I think Morrow and Joey won't be able to be kept out of the starting lineup because of how good they are which is why I'm putting Morrow at the 5. I see the lineup looking something like:
25 - grad transfer PG
30 - Markus
30 - Sam
25 - Joey
25 - Morrow
Beyond that it's hard to pick the rest of the minutes as I came up with 230 minutes in my original calculation out of 200 and didn't feel that I could realistically decrease the minutes for anybody. This is a VERY deep team if everyone returns (besides Froling) and it looks like they will be 12 deep including Ike and Bailey. This team could be very good if Wojo can get them to play defense, and Morrow should help with that. Hopefully the grad transfer PG is a defensive stud and that is the main thing that Wojo needs to focus on rather than replacing Rowsey's offense. With a defensive stud PG in addition to Morrow's hopefully good defense, things should be way more balanced to go along with the scoring prowess of mainly Markus and Sam. The two things I'm looking for from the grad transfer PG are defense and distributing abilities, scoring isn't as important.
Joeys talent, not sure you can say to much about him yet, did not play his senior year, that hurts. Will not be able to start playing till June or July. A little early to
say how good he will be. He is taller than Sam in the pictures I have seen. But will he have the same lateral quickness as Sam? Will he be able to jump? Question
marks all over the place on him. Can he play D, I am sure he never did to much of that. Can Wojo make him a better Defensive player?
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 26, 2018, 11:36:19 AM
Can Wojo make him a better Defensive player?
(https://viralviralvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF-agree-Amused-Anchorman-Brick-laugh-laughing-LOL-Steve-Carell-yes-GIF.gif)
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 22, 2018, 02:26:10 PM
I think Ike might surprise us a few times next season
Yeah, with his Back Surgery, and limited playing BB time coupled with his Height and Soccer experience really don't know what we have. Intriguing ingredients for me to watch his development in the coming years.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 26, 2018, 11:34:17 AM
The Morrow in the low 20s MPG talk is crazy. He, along with Markus and Sam, are going to be our best players.
Assuming no more players with immediate eligibility are added for next season:
Markus: 30
Sacar: 20
Sam: 30
Morrow: 30
Heldt: 20
Joey: 20
Theo: 15
Cain: 15
Greg: 15
Bailey: 5
Eke garbage time.
I see what you're saying but, just because he's one of the best players, doesn't mean he will match another top player (though, a guard) in minutes.
Isaac Haas only played 23 mpg through the season. And he was insanely good. Ethan Happ managed 28 mpg on a brutally depleted UW roster. Even Luke Fischer didn't hit 30 mpg while at MU, and we had literally no depth whatsoever.
MU just has a lot of bigs that deserve minutes. Some of them could be pseudo-guards, kind of, but they are still bigs. I think in your breakdown, it would seem that we would have scenarios with only one true guard on the floor. If Wojo does roll with that at times, I could see Morrow getting closer to 30, and that would be interesting to see.
I think he definitely deserves to play a whole lot and is one of the best players, but we have a bunch of guys that play his position (a good thing, of course).
Why do people think Morrow will play major minutes at the 5. He did say the reason he transferred is because he didn't want to play the 5, but forward or wing. So emergency minutes at the 5 due to foul trouble, but starting at the 5 and major minutes no. We need a true body ready 4 and that is Morrow.
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/ed-morrow-s-decision-to-transfer-leaves-husker-coach-tim/article_7449afcc-14dc-11e7-94d1-df0c482dda4a.html
Quote from: Newsdreams on March 26, 2018, 07:33:17 PM
Why do people think Morrow will play major minutes at the 5. He did say the reason he transferred is because he didn't want to play the 5, but forward or wing. So emergency minutes at the 5 due to foul trouble, but starting at the 5 and major minutes no. We need a true body ready 4 and that is Morrow.
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/ed-morrow-s-decision-to-transfer-leaves-husker-coach-tim/article_7449afcc-14dc-11e7-94d1-df0c482dda4a.html
Exactly. Maybe as a switch up when they want to go small on offense, but Heldt and John are the posts. Morrow is an old school power forward.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 26, 2018, 07:38:46 PM
Exactly. Maybe as a switch up when they want to go small on offense, but Heldt and John are the posts. Morrow is an old school power forward.
Yep. His body is not a 5. But, suspect he will be a real contributor.
Quote from: Newsdreams on March 26, 2018, 07:33:17 PM
Why do people think Morrow will play major minutes at the 5. He did say the reason he transferred is because he didn't want to play the 5, but forward or wing. So emergency minutes at the 5 due to foul trouble, but starting at the 5 and major minutes no. We need a true body ready 4 and that is Morrow.
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/ed-morrow-s-decision-to-transfer-leaves-husker-coach-tim/article_7449afcc-14dc-11e7-94d1-df0c482dda4a.html
Agree, but this came out of nowhere. I don't read every single post on this board so I could be wrong, but I can't remember too many people opining that he will be playing the 5. It's common knowledge here that he wants to play the 4 primarily.
I think there will be times when we need our 5 best players on the floor and at least right now, I don't think Matt/Theo/Eke are in that 5.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2018, 10:32:22 PM
I think there will be times when we need our 5 best players on the floor and at least right now, I don't think Matt/Theo/Eke are in that 5.
Exactly this. Positions no matta.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2018, 10:32:22 PM
I think there will be times when we need our 5 best players on the floor and at least right now, I don't think Matt/Theo/Eke are in that 5.
Maybe, but I also think there are also times when we need the 5 guys Wojo trusts the most on the floor, and I think Matt IS in that group (along with Markus, Sam, Sacar, and GE currently). I can imagine Ed cracking that group quickly, but not sure yet who else.
Quote from: MUMountin on March 26, 2018, 11:04:28 PM
Maybe, but I also think there are also times when we need the 5 guys Wojo trusts the most on the floor, and I think Matt IS in that group (along with Markus, Sam, Sacar, and GE currently). I can imagine Ed cracking that group quickly, but not sure yet who else.
Exactly this.
Quote from: MUMountin on March 26, 2018, 11:04:28 PM
Maybe, but I also think there are also times when we need the 5 guys Wojo trusts the most on the floor, and I think Matt IS in that group (along with Markus, Sam, Sacar, and GE currently). I can imagine Ed cracking that group quickly, but not sure yet who else.
Seeing how he "trusted" Sam to the tune of 30 mpg freshman year, I'm assuming he'll trust Ed & Joey to a similar degree.
Are we finally getting to the point where being a young/inexperienced team is no longer an excuse? I know this thread assumes no grad transfer, but I'm going to ignore that for now and say we do land a grad transfer point guard for the purpose of this roster breakdown:
Seniors - Heldt & unnamed grad transfer
Juniors - Anim, Hauser, Howard, Morrow
Sophomores - Cain, Elliot, John (all of whom have saw fairly substantial minutes as freshmen)
Freshmen - Bailey, Eke, Hauser (20yo frosh and 2 RS freshmen)
I'm intrigued by Bailey due to his skill set and build. He will likely be rusty so I don't have high expectations immediately, but at least one can assume he is more mature than your run of the mill freshman. We all know Ike is a project, but hopefully a year of working on his game yields another serviceable big. Excited about Hauser and happy he has had extra time with the team and training staff to get healthy.
We won't be the most experienced team out there, but again, without looking deep into 2017-18 minutes for D1 programs, we should be more in the middle of the pack. Something to look forward to I think.
Barring a grad transfer addition, which no one can predict, so I'll go with what we know right now, think these 5 would be our best -
S. Hauser
Morrow
John
Howard
J. Hauser
I'd put Cain and Anim in next pushing those 5. With a year of experience under his belt, John should be ready to take minutes from Heldt. He's developing a nice back to the basket game, with already tremendous athletic ability and strength. Heldt does everything right, but he'll always be limited.
Sam averaged 26.5 mpg his freshman season on a deep team.
Joey is more talented and explosive than Sam, I would be very surprised if he's not close to or at 30 mpg next season. Totally disagree with other projections of 25 mpg, and some with 15 mpg for him are laughable. This kid is a big time talent and will have an immediate impact and be a go to guy next year.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 08:41:43 PM
Barring a grad transfer addition, which no one can predict, so I'll go with what we know right now, think these 5 would be our best -
S. Hauser
Morrow
John
Howard
J. Hauser
I'd put Cain and Anim in next pushing those 5. With a year of experience under his belt, John should be ready to take minutes from Heldt. He's developing a nice back to the basket game, with already tremendous athletic ability and strength. Heldt does everything right, but he'll always be limited.
To add to your points on Theo:
I think he's already had a back-to-the-basket game, but it might be most useful to add some moves that exploit his size and power. One has to imagine that he won't be losing any mass over the offseason, so it would seem that he would be an ideal player to learn to immediately face the basket and force the issue (as Davante did). I think he of course should continue developing his back-to-the-basket game, it shows promise. But he just has no need to be avoiding contact or trying to be exceedingly sneaky when he is close to the basket. I just think he should be drawing a ton of fouls offensively and he hasn't been, because he has been a little weak with the ball, so to speak.
Of course this would also involve him putting in some significant work on FT shooting, but it can be done. The coaching staff has done some good work in that department, and he did improve significantly there as the season went on.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 21, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
3) I'm lost -- like other posters -- at what our Warriors will look like -- until I know whether we have a real point guard next year. If we don't, God help Wojo because he's going to need it.
Wojo and staff does need to get a grad transfer PG. They pull that off and bring in a good one - guy who can distribute, defend, and at least be a threat to hit 3's, and this team will be very, very strong. If they aren't able to do that, I remember back when Robb Logtermann was forced into playing a PG role as a freshman, 90-91 season. He was completely miscast and results were ugly for him and team alike. However that team was extremely young and not as talented as what we're bringing back next season. Still, a good PG makes it all work. Imagine the Final Four team without Diener!
Quote from: yetipro on April 01, 2018, 08:59:46 PM
To add to your points on Theo:
I think he's already had a back-to-the-basket game, but it might be most useful to add some moves that exploit his size and power. One has to imagine that he won't be losing any mass over the offseason, so it would seem that he would be an ideal player to learn to immediately face the basket and force the issue (as Davante did). I think he of course should continue developing his back-to-the-basket game, it shows promise. But he just has no need to be avoiding contact or trying to be exceedingly sneaky when he is close to the basket. I just think he should be drawing a ton of fouls offensively and he hasn't been, because he has been a little weak with the ball, so to speak.
Of course this would also involve him putting in some significant work on FT shooting, but it can be done. The coaching staff has done some good work in that department, and he did improve significantly there as the season went on.
Agree with everything you say. He could be an absolute beast in the paint with a more aggressive mentality. He did play a little soft at times when he got touches, nothing that more experience and work on his game over the summer shouldn't solve. He checks all the boxes of what you want in a big. And he's our only guy who is a true rim protector.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 09:05:37 PM
Agree with everything you say. He could be an absolute beast in the paint with a more aggressive mentality. He did play a little soft at times when he got touches, nothing that more experience and work on his game over the summer shouldn't solve. He checks all the boxes of what you want in a big. And he's our only guy who is a true rim protector.
That's how I feel about Theo as well. I think he needs some polish and "hard work" should get him there. Clearly by looking at the guy, you can tell that he has some work ethic to him.
The team's offensive identity could change in some ways next season, too, which could make Heldt a little less useful... Perhaps Wojo will look to have more of a force down low as opposed to a facilitator. Pure speculation though, a lot more dominoes to fall.
I wouldn't consider John a true rim protector at this point. Yes he can swat balls with the best of them, but he's often out of position and if he doesn't get the block he usually fouls or gives up an easy bucket. Love his potential but there's a reason he didn't get more minutes.
Quote from: yetipro on April 01, 2018, 09:40:39 PM
That's how I feel about Theo as well. I think he needs some polish and "hard work" should get him there. Clearly by looking at the guy, you can tell that he has some work ethic to him.
The team's offensive identity could change in some ways next season, too, which could make Heldt a little less useful... Perhaps Wojo will look to have more of a force down low as opposed to a facilitator. Pure speculation though, a lot more dominoes to fall.
Think their identity will change quite a bit offensively, they won't need to be so reliant on the 3 to generate offense. Morrow will get paint points, Joey will slash and use his athletic ability to score, John down low, etc.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 08:41:43 PM
Barring a grad transfer addition, which no one can predict, so I'll go with what we know right now, think these 5 would be our best -
S. Hauser
Morrow
John
Howard
J. Hauser
I'd put Cain and Anim in next pushing those 5. With a year of experience under his belt, John should be ready to take minutes from Heldt. He's developing a nice back to the basket game, with already tremendous athletic ability and strength. Heldt does everything right, but he'll always be limited.
Elliott showed he can compete hard at the Big East level. With a summer to add another 10 pounds of muscle and a surgically repaired thumb we are going to see great things from him. He is a player the Coach wants on the floor as much as possible so that figures into the thinking as well.
Quote from: TAMU Chardonnay on April 01, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
I wouldn't consider John a true rim protector at this point. Yes he can swat balls with the best of them, but he's often out of position and if he doesn't get the block he usually fouls or gives up an easy bucket. Love his potential but there's a reason he didn't get more minutes.
Out of position? Yeah, when he had to come over and help because someone got beat off the dribble. I saw a ton of that. He's clearly our best pure shot blocker. How do you define rim protector?
Quote from: Herman Cain on April 01, 2018, 09:59:07 PM
Elliott showed he can compete hard at the Big East level. With a summer to add another 10 pounds of muscle and a surgically repaired thumb we are going to see great things from him. He is a player the Coach wants on the floor as much as possible so that figures into the thinking as well.
I agree with all of that. He's a tough kid and his length is very valuable defensively. He'll be in the mix for sure. But Anim has edge in experience (will be his 4th year in program), not to mention a couple inches taller and stronger overall. As you said, they can add muscle to his frame.
Cain has edge overall athleticism and about 4 inches taller I think.
We'll see, his toughness may overcome what he's lacking against others he'll be competing for minutes against. Too bad he's not a pure PG.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 10:10:19 PM
I agree with all of that. He's a tough kid and his length is very valuable defensively. He'll be in the mix for sure. But Anim has edge in experience (will be his 4th year in program), not to mention a couple inches taller and stronger overall. As you said, they can add muscle to his frame.
Cain has edge overall athleticism and about 4 inches taller I think.
We'll see, his toughness may overcome what he's lacking against others he'll be competing for minutes against. Too bad he's not a pure PG.
I like Sacar a lot ,and if he continues to improve his offense next year, could be a break out year. I am also a big fan of Cain and believe he will play a big role next year as well. .
My affinity for Elliott is based on both his complete package of skills and his selfless attitude. He is a classic Detroit public high school basketball player that is team first and all about winning. The kind of player Tom Izzo would recruit to great success over the years ( in fact he was recruiting Greg)
At times I can see us putting out a line up of Elliott, Cain, Sacar, Morrow and Theo, which would compete well against the more athletic physical opponents while our shooters get a breather.
Quote from: Herman Cain on April 01, 2018, 10:25:53 PM
I like Sacar a lot ,and if he continues to improve his offense next year, could be a break out year. I am also a big fan of Cain and believe he will play a big role next year as well. .
My affinity for Elliott is based on both his complete package of skills and his selfless attitude. He is a classic Detroit public high school basketball player that is team first and all about winning. The kind of player Tom Izzo would recruit to great success over the years ( in fact he was recruiting Greg)
At times I can see us putting out a line up of Elliott, Cain, Sacar, Morrow and Theo, which would compete well against the more athletic physical opponents while our shooters get a breather.
Agree, kid's a winner and tough. Stories I read before and up to him signing with MU was Izzo was recruiting him hard too. Speaks volumes.
Wonder if bad left thumb cost him showing ability to handle/ distribute ball more? I think he did play quite a bit of PG in HS, although I think he played just about everywhere for his HS team. Maybe not out of the question that an offseason he could develop into our PG next year, with the big IF we don't sign a grad transfer.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 10:33:46 PM
Agree, kid's a winner and tough. Stories I read before and up to him signing with MU was Izzo was recruiting him hard too. Speaks volumes.
Wonder if bad left thumb cost him showing ability to handle/ distribute ball more? I think he did play quite a bit of PG in HS, although I think he played just about everywhere for his HS team. Maybe not out of the question that an offseason he could develop into our PG next year, with the big IF we don't sign a grad transfer.
If you watched him carefully live , it was very apparent he could not use the left hand much , to the point where he literally did not have the handle necessary to be effective as a point guard. At this juncture I do not think there is enough time for him to recover from the surgery and put in the work necessary to be our primary point guard option this coming season, I think he is more likely a combo guard for us. Greg built excellent on court chemistry with all the players on the team . They know when they give him the ball it is going to find its way to its most productive use. There is not stat that measures that kind of thing, other than winning.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 10:03:55 PM
Out of position? Yeah, when he had to come over and help because someone got beat off the dribble. I saw a ton of that. He's clearly our best pure shot blocker. How do you define rim protector?
Not just when someone got beat off the dribble. He would come out way too far when covering 5s that couldn't shoot. He should have been hanging around the Big East logo in the free throw lane. He was often lost or late when covering the weak side as well.
Rim protection for me isn't just about blocking shots. It's about altering shots even when you can't get to them, and keeping other posts from scoring. Theo's points per possession allowed was the second worst on the team, ahead of only Rowdy. A large part of this is his high foul rate. At the moment, I would consider Matt a much better rim protector than Theo. But Theo clearly has the higher ceiling and is the better shot blocker. He showed more improvement from beginning to end than any other player IMHO. I'm very excited about what he could become.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 01, 2018, 10:03:55 PMHe's clearly our best pure shot blocker. How do you define rim protector?
Ed Morrow is also a good shot blocker. Theo was the best last year, not sure he will be next year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 02, 2018, 09:02:44 AM
Ed Morrow is also a good shot blocker. Theo was the best last year, not sure he will be next year.
I only took into account last year's team in my opinion. I haven't seen Morrow play yet. I didn't realize he's considered a good shot blocker too. I thought strength of his game revolved primarily around rebounding, both ends. Hope he does show well protecting the rim.