MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: DegenerateDish on February 26, 2018, 11:58:39 PM
-
For those of you that use ORD a lot, thoughts on what you’d like to see as part of this $8.5 billion expansion and modernization project?
For me, the biggest improvement will be once I-390 opens and hopefully I-490 gets approved and built. I-190 is perhaps the most ill conceived roadway to/from an airport in the US. Adding capacity at ORD without addressing the horrendous design of getting in and especially out of the airport would make zero sense.
I’m happy to see the wasteland that is Terminal 2 go, but I’m curious how difficult it’s going to be to shuffle all those flights to Terminal 5 in the interim. If you’re flying UA, and had a tight connection from T1 to T5, you’d have no chance making it.
If you fly UA, do you like the look/feel of their revamped “comfort living” gates at SFO and IAH? I’m guessing that would be coming to a revamped terminal at ORD.
Curious what improvements you guys/gals would make.
-
Express Train to the loop. Even if you do not go to O’Hare much, convenient reliable transportation to the loop would get a lot of traffic off the Kennedy. Everyone wants that.
Convenient/reliable = see the train Hong Kong has to their airport, which is what is proposed ... 20 minutes from the loop to the terminals not that unbelievably inconvenient O’Hare L station they currently have. Enter the train at one end and during the 20 minute ride, check bag and go through security on the train, exit the other end of the train at the terminal steps from the gates and/or the clubs/amenities.
Even if you live in the burbs and will use the proposed western entrance, getting the loop crowd out of your life, and out of your security line and check-in, is a big win for you.
-
Express Train to the loop. Even if you do not go to O’Hare much, convenient reliable transportation to the loop would get a lot of traffic off the Kennedy. Everyone wants that.
Convenient/reliable = see the train Hong Kong has to their airport, which is what is proposed ... 20 minutes from the loop to the terminals not that unbelievably inconvenient O’Hare L station they currently have. Enter the train at one end and during the 20 minute ride, check bag and go through security on the train, exit the other end of the train at the terminal steps from the gates and/or the clubs/amenities.
Even if you live in the burbs and will use the proposed western entrance, getting the loop crowd out of your life, and out of your security line and check-in, is a big win for you.
Funny enough, I’m typing this from the Airport Express in HK. Fantastic train, very convenient. Just to clarify for those unfamiliar, there is not security and check-in on the train, that would be quite a great addition, your statement made it seem like there is. But it does drop you a 2 min walk from the check in counters and security, not in the bowels of the airport like the Blue Line currently does.
-
Funny enough, I’m typing this from the Airport Express in HK. Fantastic train, very convenient. Just to clarify for those unfamiliar, there is not security and check-in on the train, that would be quite a great addition, your statement made it seem like there is. But it does drop you a 2 min walk from the check in counters and security, not in the bowels of the airport like the Blue Line currently does.
Yes, thanks for the clarification, I did word it poorly.
As you noted the HK train stops and the door open or what would be the equivalent of the airport terminal monorail at O'hare. The HK airport train is probably the most convenient airport train in the world.
The Chicago version proposed has suggested the check-in and security feature I described (so they were taking HK train model to the next level). The Chicago proposal would stop at the equivalent of the food court between H and K in the American terminal (or the underground walkway in the United terminal).
Super convenient for those coming from the loop. And, again, if you are not coming from the loop, to get that many people out of your line is a big win for you too.
-
I haven't been to O'Hare more than a handful of times in the last decade. I travel a lot, but from Midway whenever possible. We live closer to O'Hare, but from driveway to the the gate, it is quicker to get to Midway.
I hope to be out of the Chicago area long before this project really gets underway. It sounds like it's going to be a road construction nightmare and a graft magnet, and I don't want to be on the hook for paying for it.
-
I haven't been to O'Hare more than a handful of times in the last decade. I travel a lot, but from Midway whenever possible. We live closer to O'Hare, but from driveway to the the gate, it is quicker to get to Midway.
I hope to be out of the Chicago area long before this project really gets underway. It sounds like it's going to be a road construction nightmare and a graft magnet, and I don't want to be on the hook for paying for it.
You fly MDW because of Southwest. MDW is not easier to access than O'Hare. Cicero is hardly an arterial capable of handling the traffic.
-
I haven't been to O'Hare more than a handful of times in the last decade. I travel a lot, but from Midway whenever possible. We live closer to O'Hare, but from driveway to the the gate, it is quicker to get to Midway.
I hope to be out of the Chicago area long before this project really gets underway. It sounds like it's going to be a road construction nightmare and a graft magnet, and I don't want to be on the hook for paying for it.
Retiring to Milwaukee, eh?
-
You fly MDW because of Southwest. MDW is not easier to access than O'Hare. Cicero is hardly an arterial capable of handling the traffic.
I don't go anywhere near Cicero. I park at an offsite place that is west of there. The person at the booth tells me where the closest open parking spot, their shuttle follows my car there, the driver handles my luggage, and I get to the terminal quicker than either slogging through O'Hare's parking garage or using their remote lot.
And for the record, I have taken plenty of non-Southwest flights out of Midway. The only time I go to O'Hare is if it is my only realistic option. I have flown out of Milwaukee rather than dealing with that godforsaken airport.
-
Retiring to Milwaukee, eh?
It's one of the options.
-
I don't go anywhere near Cicero. I park at an offsite place that is west of there. The person at the booth tells me where the closest open parking spot, their shuttle follows my car there, the driver handles my luggage, and I get to the terminal quicker than either slogging through O'Hare's parking garage or using their remote lot.
And for the record, I have taken plenty of non-Southwest flights out of Midway. The only time I go to O'Hare is if it is my only realistic option. I have flown out of Milwaukee rather than dealing with that godforsaken airport.
There are those same services at O'Hare, about a dozen total. They'll valet, put your bags on the shuttle and drop you off. So if you're closer to ORD, how is that same service at MDW saving you that much time?
I understand bitching about ORD is/was a cool thing to do, but realistically what's so godforsaken about it?
In the last year, I've flown out of ORD, MDW, RSW, SFO and IAH. I'll take ORD over all of them, and Milwaukee is my closest airport.
-
There are those same services at O'Hare, about a dozen total. They'll valet, put your bags on the shuttle and drop you off. So if you're closer to ORD, how is that same service at MDW saving you that much time?
I understand bitching about ORD is/was a cool thing to do, but realistically what's so godforsaken about it?
In the last year, I've flown out of ORD, MDW, RSW, SFO and IAH. I'll take ORD over all of them, and Milwaukee is my closest airport.
I suppose you could come to my house and go to each airport and see what I am talking about. Or take my word for it.
-
I suppose you could come to my house and go to each airport and see what I am talking about. Or take my word for it.
Google Maps is pretty, prettay accurate.
-
I suppose you could come to my house and go to each airport and see what I am talking about. Or take my word for it.
You really don't want PTM at your house. Hide the silver, if ya know what I mean.
-
You really don't want PTM at your house. Hide the silver, if ya know what I mean.
Man, silver is STRUGGLING lately.
-
Man, silver is STRUGGLING lately.
Rigged.
-
It's one of the options.
Love Milwaukee, but except for about 4 months a year the weather sucks.
-
My wishlist for ORD:
1) Free & reliable wi-fi throughout the terminals.
2) Upgraded seating areas with power/USB ports in more locations (or at least 110 AC outlets that actually work).
3) Floor to ceiling dividers in the shiitters. And better lighting.
It's a short list because frankly, ORD is fine for me.... I am AAL-Gold with over 400k lifetime miles, i.e. I fly a lot and have been to/through a lot of airports. In fact, looking at the map in my office, I've been through airports in at least 27 states, two possessions (SJU & STT), three countries (YYX, SNN and LHR) and Waukegan. In all, that number's upwards of 50 different airports.
The worst experience I've ever had was Miami, but that had nothing to do with the airport... I can't quite recall where exactly I had my best experience, but it was a small regional where I walked out of the gate, walked 50 feet through TSA, another 50 to the Avis counter and another 50 feet to the door where my rental car was literally parked across the street... 98% of airports can't have that.
That said, I'm a business traveler... I park in the $40/day garage at ORD (once I even got to park in the spot right next to the door going into the T3 skywalk), I know where my TSA PreCheck line is, I know what time of day (and day of week) to book my flights so I'm not fighting crowds (never on a Saturday morning), I can go through priority lanes if my line is too long, I know which bathrooms are the cleanest, I know which vendors are the friendliest, I know which food is the best, I know where the lottery stand run by veterans is, and I know where I can get my Oakley solution refilled. ORD is a much different experience for a leisure traveler, a through-traveler, or an international visitor.
I went through LAS once... waited in security for over two hours, but my flight was delayed, so I was one of the few who left LAS in good fortune, i.e. it would have been a much different memory if I had missed my flight. Likewise (same trip, actually), said flight connected through ATL... it's pretty hard to impartially judge an airport when you see the entire C terminal in less than 10 minutes.
What I really hate - and probably where I judge my airport experience the most - is car rental, specifically, having to go to a rental counter and/or having to wait for a shuttle... I rather walk (or tram) right to my car, look at my name on a board, find my car and go. As far as the int'l hubs, airports like MSP, MCO and CLT win while the likes of SAN, DEN, and IAH lose. DFW and ORD would go on the latter, but since I never rent cars from either, by default DEN isn't as high as ORD on my list (see what I did there), even though I'm sure DEN is much higher on everyone else's lists (did it again).
tl;dr - Airport comparisons are probably at their highest value when sitting on a toilet in an airport bathroom with an empty TP roll. Everyone's situation is different, and whatever they do with ORD, I only hope it allows me to challenge my record door to door times (currently at 45 minutes front door to other side of TSA, 39 minutes from touchdown to front door). If they add amenities at the expense of time/efficiency, then I'm going to hate it even though it might be better for 95% of everyone else.
-
I use O'Hare for American and Midway for Southwest. Occasionally will fly United out of O'Hare. Live right between the two.
I find both airports incredibly easy to use, largely because I NEVER have to connect - You can get a direct flight from Chicago to almost anywhere- it is one of the most undervalued parts of living here. Southwest, AA or United can get you anywhere in the US, and United, AA and the International airlines can get you almost anywhere in the world in one flight.
I can take an Uber or suburban cab for $30, or, if I have a 1 to 3 day trip, park for $35 to $100 on site. Takes me at most 40 minutes to get to either, but usually 25. (Chick--I am totally with you on Cicero--I would never take Cicero either--come in from the west is right - Pershing to Central for me every time, but don't tell anybody!). The use TSA precheck or status bumps to avoid long security.
I think ORD would absolutely suck if I lived in Green Bay (like my in laws, who on more than one occasion have had to stay with us b/c of missed connections) or another city that has to connect through ORD. That is the biggest problem--trying to navigate unreliable connections. But when O'Hare is your "terminal destination," IMO it is easy to deal with.
I will say that I miss the old days at Midway, when you could park at 6:00 am across the street from the terminal for $10, be at your gate 10 minutes later, on a 7:00am Southwest flight to Louisville, come back at 5:30 that night and be home by 6:15.
-
I use O'Hare for American and Midway for Southwest. Occasionally will fly United out of O'Hare. Live right between the two.
I find both airports incredibly easy to use, largely because I NEVER have to connect - You can get a direct flight from Chicago to almost anywhere- it is one of the most undervalued parts of living here. Southwest, AA or United can get you anywhere in the US, and United, AA and the International airlines can get you almost anywhere in the world in one flight.
I can take an Uber or suburban cab for $30, or, if I have a 1 to 3 day trip, park for $35 to $100 on site. Takes me at most 40 minutes to get to either, but usually 25. (Chick--I am totally with you on Cicero--I would never take Cicero either--come in from the west is right - Pershing to Central for me every time, but don't tell anybody!). The use TSA precheck or status bumps to avoid long security.
I think ORD would absolutely suck if I lived in Green Bay (like my in laws, who on more than one occasion have had to stay with us b/c of missed connections) or another city that has to connect through ORD. That is the biggest problem--trying to navigate unreliable connections. But when O'Hare is your "terminal destination," IMO it is easy to deal with.
I will say that I miss the old days at Midway, when you could park at 6:00 am across the street from the terminal for $10, be at your gate 10 minutes later, on a 7:00am Southwest flight to Louisville, come back at 5:30 that night and be home by 6:15.
Another plus for Midway - flights are rarely delayed unless it is weather-related. And if the weather is in Chicago, it is much less likely to be delayed. I have been on business trips where everyone else flew out of O'Hare and I took Midway, and even though our Friday evening flights were scheduled about the same time, I always got home first. I even taunted them at times while waiting for my plane to unload, and they were still sitting in Charlotte or Philly.
-
Actually I don't like the Denver airport at all. It's too far out of town if you are flying there. Switching planes there is fine if your gates are close. Otherwise you're walking miles to get anywhere.
-
I can't quite recall where exactly I had my best experience, but it was a small regional where I walked out of the gate, walked 50 feet through TSA, another 50 to the Avis counter and another 50 feet to the door where my rental car was literally parked across the street... 98% of airports can't have that.
Several years ago, I had to go to Fort Wayne a bunch of times. It was like that and it was fantastic.
-
Yeah count me in the ORD could totally be worse camp.
Highspeed rail connection to the loop crowd would be a huge addition. Anything to relieve the congestion on the Kennedy. That stretch of highway is hell.
That HK train thing sounds pretty slick. Especially with the fantasy land of check-in/TSA on board. Getting rail-access travelers out of the general TSA lines would be great for the drive-in/drop-off crowd.
I've mostly flown UA out of ORD, and had 0 problems checking in, getting through TSA, getting to the gate. Flying back from Munich recently was a hell of a whole different story (aprx 4 hours from setting foot at the airport to the gate... so much for fabled German efficiency).
I'd be really interested in hearing pilots chime in. I know that there's logistics stuff that might be worth pouring $$$ into that the passenger never sees. Frankly, give me a smoothly-running airport over wi-fi.
-
The worst experience I've ever had was Miami, but that had nothing to do with the airport... I can't quite recall where exactly I had my best experience, but it was a small regional where I walked out of the gate, walked 50 feet through TSA, another 50 to the Avis counter and another 50 feet to the door where my rental car was literally parked across the street... 98% of airports can't have that.
My home airport of RST is like that...and it's a thing of beauty when it works. I live about 5 minutes away, and once left home 20 minutes before an on-time departure...and still made the flight with time to spare. And when I get back after a long day of traveling, I'm home about 10 minutes after we get to the gate.
But there are plenty of downsides. If your flight out is delayed, there is NOTHING to do. You have to change planes to get anywhere other than MSP, DTW, ORD and ATL. And the little planes they fly here are always the first canceled when the weather gets sketchy at a hub, so I have spent many nights in a hub city due to cancellations, or ridden many shuttle buses to MSP to catch a later flight to my destination.
Interestingly, my worst experience was in Miami too. I lived in Chicago at the time and had a convenient nonstop from ORD to MIA. We flew after work so it was about 10pm when we got there. We figured we'd get out quickly at that time of the night, so had made reservations about halfway down the keys, figuring we'd get there by midnight. But we got to the car rental counter and they were out of rental cars even though we had a reservation. Several people were ahead of us already waiting, so we ended up having to wait a few hours until a car arrived and we got out. Needless to say, we were kinda tired when we got to our hotel around 4 am.
God, I hate MIA.
-
Several years ago, I had to go to Fort Wayne a bunch of times. It was like that and it was fantastic.
I fly in/out of ATL 30-40 times a year. I have reached level of familiarity rivaling Benny & ORD, and it's really quite amazing how well ATL operates for the volume of traffic it handles. I haven't been seriously delayed in several years/a couple hundred flights...just jinxed myself I am sure. I fly only Delta, probably not quite as smooth for other airlines.
-
My home airport of RST is like that...and it's a thing of beauty when it works. I live about 5 minutes away, and once left home 20 minutes before an on-time departure...and still made the flight with time to spare. And when I get back after a long day of traveling, I'm home about 10 minutes after we get to the gate.
But there are plenty of downsides. If your flight out is delayed, there is NOTHING to do. You have to change planes to get anywhere other than MSP, DTW, ORD and ATL. And the little planes they fly here are always the first canceled when the weather gets sketchy at a hub, so I have spent many nights in a hub city due to cancellations, or ridden many shuttle buses to MSP to catch a later flight to my destination.
Interestingly, my worst experience was in Miami too. I lived in Chicago at the time and had a convenient nonstop from ORD to MIA. We flew after work so it was about 10pm when we got there. We figured we'd get out quickly at that time of the night, so had made reservations about halfway down the keys, figuring we'd get there by midnight. But we got to the car rental counter and they were out of rental cars even though we had a reservation. Several people were ahead of us already waiting, so we ended up having to wait a few hours until a car arrived and we got out. Needless to say, we were kinda tired when we got to our hotel around 4 am.
God, I hate MIA.
Interesting. I had to attend a funeral last week in Alden, Mn ( Seriously, I really don’t know how any human being could live out there). I had a connection in ATL and then to RST. One of, if not the smallest airports I have ever seen. Believe like 8 flights out a day. After funeral, arrived 45 minutes before flight, one minute thru TSA and one minute to gate. Unreal.
ATL is busy, but very efficient and can’t complain about Delta.
-
I flew out of Norfolk, VA a few years ago. I was the ONLY person in TSA, ONLY person in the gate, ONLY person in the bar (outside of the bartender), it was disconcerting, but easy as hell.
-
My home airport of RST is like that...and it's a thing of beauty when it works. I live about 5 minutes away, and once left home 20 minutes before an on-time departure...and still made the flight with time to spare. And when I get back after a long day of traveling, I'm home about 10 minutes after we get to the gate.
But there are plenty of downsides. If your flight out is delayed, there is NOTHING to do. You have to change planes to get anywhere other than MSP, DTW, ORD and ATL. And the little planes they fly here are always the first canceled when the weather gets sketchy at a hub, so I have spent many nights in a hub city due to cancellations, or ridden many shuttle buses to MSP to catch a later flight to my destination.
Interestingly, my worst experience was in Miami too. I lived in Chicago at the time and had a convenient nonstop from ORD to MIA. We flew after work so it was about 10pm when we got there. We figured we'd get out quickly at that time of the night, so had made reservations about halfway down the keys, figuring we'd get there by midnight. But we got to the car rental counter and they were out of rental cars even though we had a reservation. Several people were ahead of us already waiting, so we ended up having to wait a few hours until a car arrived and we got out. Needless to say, we were kinda tired when we got to our hotel around 4 am.
God, I hate MIA.
Just 5 minutes from RST? Geez, if you open your front door, do you hear banjos?
-
That HK train thing sounds pretty slick.
Yes it is.
-
I'm a 1K on United and am in ORD about once every other week going somewhere.
The clean-up of Sh*tbox Palace (Terminal 2) will be a good thing. I am concerned through that the Satellite Terminals will be in JoDavies County based on the original drawings.
For us unprofitable domestic passengers, who are treated like cattle anyway. MOOOOOOOOOO! The sad thing is that this is all about international passengers. The Terminal 2 international piece impresses me as totally unnecessary.
What I don't see are taxiways. If your flight has the misfortune to land on 28R (the most northerly of the east west runways), your taxi to the gate is about 20 minutes, no matter what airline you are on. You follow a conga line of jets around the hangars, by the flight kitchens and finally to the gate. It's ridiculous.
I agree with Sister Chick that the biggest problem is the amount of graft and outright corruption that will go on with this large of a project. It is inevitable that if the project is budgeted for $8.5 billion, it will cost $12 billion after you factor in the incompetence, theft and hangers-on who will insist o their piece of the pie. Just ask Poolboy.
-
I agree with Sister Chick that the biggest problem is the amount of graft and outright corruption that will go on with this large of a project. It is inevitable that if the project is budgeted for $8.5 billion, it will cost $12 billion after you factor in the incompetence, theft and hangers-on who will insist o their piece of the pie. Just ask Poolboy.
Ever see "Boss" starring Kelsey Grammar?
(https://art-s.nflximg.net/ebe6e/b323c57dbcb4b40796f7f585094f87abaefebe6e.jpg)
Grammar played the Mayor of Chicago, with an Irish name, Tom Kane, who was entering his 22nd year in office (gee, wonder who that is modeled after?) The show ran 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012.
One of the themes through the show was O'hare expansion and how the Kane administration worked to steal money, literally plowed under a discovered Indian burial ground while building the western terminal (yes the show got that detailed about this) despite public protests. They feared it would stop construction and they would lose opportunities to steal even more money. They kidnapped a corruption exposing whistleblower had a powerful scene of him begging for his life as a backhoe dug a hole and they buried him alive as you heard his final screams as dirt was dumped on him. Finally, they had a scene where their construction dumped toxins in Elk Grove/Bensenville's water supply and they showed how Kane paid off the Mayor of Bensenville and they manipulated and threated the press to keep this quiet.
The show was filmed in Chicago and all the writers were from Chicago and they took great pains to use real-life issues. In 2010/2011 (when the show was conceived) Daley's original O'Hare expansion was a big topic.
Everyone that thinks O'hare expansion is a good idea should watch this show. Because this is how it really works.
-
What I don't see are taxiways. If your flight has the misfortune to land on 28R (the most northerly of the east west runways), your taxi to the gate is about 20 minutes, no matter what airline you are on. You follow a conga line of jets around the hangars, by the flight kitchens and finally to the gate. It's ridiculous.
Not to mention the walk from the front door from the terminal to your actual gate. I had a flight on United to Detroit once where my gate was at the one end of the far concourse, the one where you you have to walk through the disco tunnel and then you are just getting started on your hike. While we waited to board, my co-worker remarked about the great fare we got. I replied, "That's because they make you walk halfway to Detroit before you even get on the plane".
And by the way, where's terminal 4? I bet if you look on the books, Chicago actually paid someone to build it at some point.
-
Ever see the TV "Boss" starring Kelsey Grammar?
Grammar played the Mayor of Chicago, with an Irish name, Tom Kane who was entering his 22nd year in office (gee, wonder who that is modeled after?) The show ran 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012.
One of the themes through the show was O'hare expansion and how the Kane administration worked to steal money, literally plowed under a discovred Indian burial while building the western terminal (yes the show got that detailed about this) ground despite public protests because it would stop construction and they would lose opportunities to steal more money and kidnapped a corruption exposing whistleblower had a powerful scene of him begging for his like as a backhoe dug a hole and they buried him alive as you heard his final screams for life as dirt was dumped on him.
Everyone that thinks O'hare expansion is a good idea should watch this show. Because this is how it really works.
That was based on a true story. There was an old cemetery in the way of the most recent expansion. They had knocked down the church that the cemetery belonged to in the original construction of the airport, and at the time, the city promised the church members that the cemetery would remain undisturbed. And, yup, they dug up those bodies and put them in another place, because progress. In true Chicago fashion, the managed to spend $17 million in the process, or about $12,000 per grave. That's not counting a decade of legal fees beforehand.
-
Just 5 minutes from RST? Geez, if you open your front door, do you hear banjos?
Ha!
Funny thing is that I'm in a nice neighborhood within the city limits (very southwestern edge), and just a few blocks from the old Mayowood Mansion. Beautiful area. But I drive two minutes south and I'm surrounded by cornfields, and next thing you know I'm at the airport.
When people I know are flying in to RST for the first time, I warn them that this very literally is the proverbial airport in the middle of the cornfield. They chuckle as though they think I'm exaggerating...but soon realize I wasn't kidding.
-
Ha!
Funny thing is that I'm in a nice neighborhood within the city limits (very southwestern edge), and just a few blocks from the old Mayowood Mansion. Beautiful area. But I drive two minutes south and I'm surrounded by cornfields, and next thing you know I'm at the airport.
When people I know are flying in to RST for the first time, I warn them that this very literally is the proverbial airport in the middle of the cornfield. They chuckle as though they think I'm exaggerating...but soon realize I wasn't kidding.
Like I said earlier in this thread, I went to Alden, Mn and it was well, remote and cannot fathom living there.
You were right about airport, quickest lines in the country.
-
Ever see "Boss" starring Kelsey Grammar?
(https://art-s.nflximg.net/ebe6e/b323c57dbcb4b40796f7f585094f87abaefebe6e.jpg)
Grammar played the Mayor of Chicago, with an Irish name, Tom Kane, who was entering his 22nd year in office (gee, wonder who that is modeled after?) The show ran 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012.
One of the themes through the show was O'hare expansion and how the Kane administration worked to steal money, literally plowed under a discovered Indian burial ground while building the western terminal (yes the show got that detailed about this) despite public protests. They feared it would stop construction and they would lose opportunities to steal even more money. They kidnapped a corruption exposing whistleblower had a powerful scene of him begging for his life as a backhoe dug a hole and they buried him alive as you heard his final screams as dirt was dumped on him. Finally, they had a scene where their construction dumped toxins in Elk Grove/Bensenville's water supply and they showed how Kane paid off the Mayor of Bensenville and they manipulated and threated the press to keep this quiet.
The show was filmed in Chicago and all the writers were from Chicago and they took great pains to use real-life issues. In 2010/2011 (when the show was conceived) Daley's original O'Hare expansion was a big topic.
Everyone that thinks O'hare expansion is a good idea should watch this show. Because this is how it really works.
Ironically, Richard J. Daley originally supported a downstater, Clyde Choate, for House Speaker, a position which lacked the influence and cache of today. After then ill-fated governor Dan Walker objected to Choate, the Democrats chose a compromise candidate in Marquette alum Bill Redmond of Bensenville. O'Hare projects benefited from Redmond's penchant for avoiding conflict and deferring to Hizzoner. After Redmond, another ill-fated Illinois pol, (R) George Ryan, had a stint as Speaker, but Mike Madigan was being groomed by RJD to begin a decades-long stranglehold on the Speakership as soon as the Democrats retook the House majority.
-
Ha!
Funny thing is that I'm in a nice neighborhood within the city limits (very southwestern edge), and just a few blocks from the old Mayowood Mansion. Beautiful area. But I drive two minutes south and I'm surrounded by cornfields, and next thing you know I'm at the airport.
When people I know are flying in to RST for the first time, I warn them that this very literally is the proverbial airport in the middle of the cornfield. They chuckle as though they think I'm exaggerating...but soon realize I wasn't kidding.
We always referred to RST as Stewartville Int'l... guessing that never caught on.
-
Not to mention the walk from the front door from the terminal to your actual gate. I had a flight on United to Detroit once where my gate was at the one end of the far concourse, the one where you you have to walk through the disco tunnel and then you are just getting started on your hike. While we waited to board, my co-worker remarked about the great fare we got. I replied, "That's because they make you walk halfway to Detroit before you even get on the plane".
And by the way, where's terminal 4? I bet if you look on the books, Chicago actually paid someone to build it at some point.
WBEZ did a curious City answering this - you can sign up for the podcast or look in the WBEZ archives for it- funny story:
https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/ohares-ghost-whatever-happened-to-terminal-4/435a5763-6693-49a6-8cae-24bfcaf40aa9 (https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/ohares-ghost-whatever-happened-to-terminal-4/435a5763-6693-49a6-8cae-24bfcaf40aa9)
-
We always referred to RST as Stewartville Int'l... guessing that never caught on.
l
Never heard that one!
-
And by the way, where's terminal 4? I bet if you look on the books, Chicago actually paid someone to build it at some point.
Someone was paid for Terminal 4, because it did exist. Hilarious.
-
Terminal 4 is still at ORD; it's just not called Terminal 4 anymore... it's the bus/shuttle center in the parking garage.
Which is apropos considering that if you were taking an int'l flight from T4 back in the day, after you checked in, you had to take a bus to the plane.
-
Terminal 4 is still at ORD; it's just not called Terminal 4 anymore... it's the bus/shuttle center in the parking garage.
Which is apropos considering that if you were taking an int'l flight from T4 back in the day, after you checked in, you had to take a bus to the plane.
Yes, I used that hellhole a few times.
The "new" international terminal actually is quite pleasant. But it is a long people-mover ride from Terminal 5 to United Terminal 1. And if you arrive on United or American and are connecting onward, you have to re-clear security at Domestic Terminal 1 or 3, which United and American don't like.
What I am bothered about with this international expansion is the notion that "build it and they will come." Given Illinois' economic and political woes, can anyone legitimately imagine that there is dramatically more demand for air service into and out of ORD than there is today?
I'm unnerved a bit by the fact that in many communities to where I travel, goofy locals tend to badly overbuild airports in lure of traffic and larger jets that never materialize.
Incidentally Chick, it seems like every time I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I somehow end up with a flight parked at C29 at United, even though there is about 50 or so gates open. It's how I get my exercise!
-
Yes, I used that hellhole a few times.
The "new" international terminal actually is quite pleasant. But it is a long people-mover ride from Terminal 5 to United Terminal 1. And if you arrive on United or American and are connecting onward, you have to re-clear security at Domestic Terminal 1 or 3, which United and American don't like.
What I am bothered about with this international expansion is the notion that "build it and they will come." Given Illinois' economic and political woes, can anyone legitimately imagine that there is dramatically more demand for air service into and out of ORD than there is today?
I'm unnerved a bit by the fact that in many communities to where I travel, goofy locals tend to badly overbuild airports in lure of traffic and larger jets that never materialize.
Incidentally Chick, it seems like every time I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I somehow end up with a flight parked at C29 at United, even though there is about 50 or so gates open. It's how I get my exercise!
There is a huge demand for international flights into/out of O’hare.
It’s not about Chicagoans going to far flung places, it’s about getting international passengers to a major hub in the center of the country so the can easily connect to their final destination. It’s about making it easy for Americans anywhere in the country to connect through O’hare to get to their international location.
Right now terminal 5 is such a bad design (being so far away and having to go through security again) that Chicago is losing out.
-
Don't overlook the fact ORD is one of the largest US airports for cargo shipments, is the expansion possibly related to that in some way?
-
The HK airport train is probably the most convenient airport train in the world.
Y'all need to try the new DEN train to/from downtown. Drops you off an escalator ride from security.
-
Actually I don't like the Denver airport at all. It's too far out of town if you are flying there. Switching planes there is fine if your gates are close. Otherwise you're walking miles to get anywhere.
Denver's darn tough. Fine as a transfer but I'm pretty sure it's actually in Nebraska!
-
Y'all need to try the new DEN train to/from downtown. Drops you off an escalator ride from security.
News to me and a big step in the right direction.
-
Y'all need to try the new DEN train to/from downtown. Drops you off an escalator ride from security.
Sounds like the light rail stop at MSP.
-
It's one of the options.
Just curious, where would you live if you moved to the Milwaukee Area? There are lots of nice places available.
-
Just curious, where would you live if you moved to the Milwaukee Area? There are lots of nice places available.
Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.
-
Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.
Just had dinner in the 3rd Ward tonight. I drove through the Ward this afternoon and noticed all the new contemporary luxury apartment buildings just outside the Summerfest gates
-
Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.
I've long thought it would be fun to live in the Third Ward...but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I'd only want it as a second place. The busy activity is fun for a little while, but I also need some quiet and a bit more room. The condos out in lake country sound nice.
-
I've long thought it would be fun to live in the Third Ward...but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I'd only want it as a second place. The busy activity is fun for a little while, but I also need some quiet and a bit more room. The condos out in lake country sound nice.
I am hoping the ones I have my eye on are wildly speculatively priced by the developers. They are asking seven figures at this point.
-
Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.
Chick, maybe we'll be neighbors. My wife and I have spoken about the possibility of after we sell our home, moving to a condo on the water side of Prospect Avenue on the East Side. Really a cool place.
-
There is a huge demand for international flights into/out of O’hare.
It’s not about Chicagoans going to far flung places, it’s about getting international passengers to a major hub in the center of the country so the can easily connect to their final destination. It’s about making it easy for Americans anywhere in the country to connect through O’hare to get to their international location.
Right now terminal 5 is such a bad design (being so far away and having to go through security again) that Chicago is losing out.
I didn't say there was a huge demand for international flights. I agree there is. What I disagree on is spending $12 billion (graft factor included) to build a new international terminal that will facilitate domestic connections and effectively subsidize United and American.
Do you really think United will move connecting traffic from EWR or IAD to O'Hare? I don't think so. I'll admit IAD is a dump and probably is silently being de-hubbed in favor of EWR, but that traffic is not coming to Chicago. Likewise, while we have a hub at ORD, the Asian traffic is going to SFO and to a lesser degree, LAX. The Latin American traffic flows through IAH, leaving Denver and Chicago and primary domestic (aka, money losing passenger) hubs . We could do the same exercise on American involving DFW, LAX, JFK, PHL and CLT. On AA, everything is secondary to DFW. That's just the way it is.
Maybe there is some marginal benefit to Midwest connecting traffic from an enhanced ORD, but United and American are so dominant that I just don't see that changing much as a consequence of a new airport. I think the Rahmfather needs an airport project just before election time to tame the unions.
While I would like to see Sh*tbox Palace rebuilt, $12 billion (including graft) isn't worth the price.
-
I didn't say there was a huge demand for international flights. I agree there is. What I disagree on is spending $12 billion (graft factor included) to build a new international terminal that will facilitate domestic connections and effectively subsidize United and American.
Do you really think United will move connecting traffic from EWR or IAD to O'Hare? I don't think so. I'll admit IAD is a dump and probably is silently being de-hubbed in favor of EWR, but that traffic is not coming to Chicago. Likewise, while we have a hub at ORD, the Asian traffic is going to SFO and to a lesser degree, LAX. The Latin American traffic flows through IAH, leaving Denver and Chicago and primary domestic (aka, money losing passenger) hubs . We could do the same exercise on American involving DFW, LAX, JFK, PHL and CLT. On AA, everything is secondary to DFW. That's just the way it is.
Maybe there is some marginal benefit to Midwest connecting traffic from an enhanced ORD, but United and American are so dominant that I just don't see that changing much as a consequence of a new airport. I think the Rahmfather needs an airport project just before election time to tame the unions.
While I would like to see Sh*tbox Palace rebuilt, $12 billion (including graft) isn't worth the price.
If you believe the press reports, it will be paid with an increase in landing fees, not tax payers money. (I chose my words carefully as I’m not completely buying that no taxpayer money will be used)
-
Chick, maybe we'll be neighbors. My wife and I have spoken about the possibility of after we sell our home, moving to a condo on the water side of Prospect Avenue on the East Side. Really a cool place.
My wife and I have always had our eye on those townhomes along the river between Highland and Juneau. Close enough to the action yet a bit off the beaten path for those times you need some “space away” (relatively speaking)... and a boat slip.
-
Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.
I think the lakeside option is very interesting. I may look out there someday.