So what are people expecting with the Falcon Heavy launch this afternoon? It has been delayed a couple of times, and is currently scheduled for 2:45 CT.
http://www.spacex.com/webcast
Pretty bold plan, launching the heaviest rocket ever into orbit...then have the rocket boosters return to earth and land. I'm thinking the rocket gets up into orbit, but the boosters don't make it back intact....
If the rocket gets into orbit, I'd feel pretty good that they're going to get the side boosters back just fine. SpaceX has already tested the boosters.
The real question is whether they can get the central booster back.... and launch the payload successfully. I think the former is the real test here, but pictures/video of the latter is what I'm most interested in.
https://www.youtube.com/v/aBr2kKAHN6M
A perfect combination of engineering and humor. In other words, why American innovation cannot be matched.
Yeah, I forgot to distinguish between the central and side boosters. You're right that getting the central one back intact will be the biggest challenge.
It depends on your definition of "get back". If you mean recovered for future use, I think the Central Booster crashes but the side boosters are fine. The orbital mechanics of sending boosters up and returning them to earth's surface is "easy". Having them land upright on a designated part of said earth, that's the tough part.
That was magical.
The synchronized landing was rocket science porn at its finest. If there was a PornHub chart that could track XXX activity just in Cambridge, MA and Pasadena over the next two hours, it's going to tank harder than the Dow did this morning.
Don't bet against Elon Musk. That doesn't mean you have to bet on him, but the guy continues to amaze.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 06, 2018, 02:33:54 PM
It depends on your definition of "get back". If you mean recovered for future use, I think the Central Booster crashes but the side boosters are fine. The orbital mechanics of sending boosters up and returning them to earth's surface is "easy". Having them land upright on a designated part of said earth, that's the tough part.
Seems like the real challenge is an antenna that will withstand the vibration and distortion of a rocket landing. Wonder if anyone at SpaceX still uses wire coat hangers.
Amazing. Elon Musk is one eccentric dude, but I agree with Benny - I wouldn't bet against him.
The only shame is that his 2008 Tesla will be orbiting Mars instead of sitting in my garage. I thought about emailing Musk to ask if he'd point the rocket at my house instead of Mars, but then it occurred to me that having an enormous rocket aimed at my house might have unintended consequences.
Quote from: Benny B on February 06, 2018, 03:48:04 PM
Seems like the real challenge is an antenna that will withstand the vibration and distortion of a rocket landing. Wonder if anyone at SpaceX still uses wire coat hangers.
Pretty sure the current gen is automated i.e. the boosters have the instrumentation on board to auto-land. I'd guess the receivers for things like GPS, etc are covered during launch in some sort of aerodynamic body and are only exposed after separation.
The boosters landed .. and do yourself a favor, put down those beef and cheddars, and watch that video. It's spectacular. It's hard to believe it wasn't fake, it's so amazing.
.. the core was unable to light enough engines to land .. crashed at 300mph into the ocean.
If they knew there was a chance of losing the cameras on the autonomous platform, why not have a boat or chopper nearby with another camera?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 06, 2018, 01:05:28 PM
So what are people expecting with the Falcon Heavy launch this afternoon? It has been delayed a couple of times, and is currently scheduled for 2:45 CT.
http://www.spacex.com/webcast
Pretty bold plan, launching the heaviest rocket ever into orbit...then have the rocket boosters return to earth and land. I'm thinking the rocket gets up into orbit, but the boosters don't make it back intact....
I believe the Saturn V is still the heaviest rocket with 7.5 million pounds of thrust.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 06, 2018, 06:51:13 PM
The boosters landed .. and do yourself a favor, put down those beef and cheddars, and watch that video. It's spectacular. It's hard to believe it wasn't fake, it's so amazing.
.. the core was unable to light enough engines to land .. crashed at 300mph into the ocean.
Stanley Kubrick would be proud.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 06, 2018, 06:55:36 PM
I believe the Saturn V is still the heaviest rocket with 7.5 million pounds of thrust.
OK Mr. "nothing good happened after the Jimi Hendrix died. now get off my lawn and let me yell at you about how great things used to be".
Biggest payload. edit: apparently it is the 'most powerful' rocket
Also, that was really F'n cool to watch.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 06, 2018, 06:51:13 PM
The boosters landed .. and do yourself a favor, put down those beef and cheddars, and watch that video. It's spectacular. It's hard to believe it wasn't fake, it's so amazing.
.. the core was unable to light enough engines to land .. crashed at 300mph into the ocean.
I was thinking the same thing as the boosters were approaching the landing area - it almost looked like animation...perhaps because it worked just so perfectly.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 06, 2018, 06:54:00 PM
If they knew there was a chance of losing the cameras on the autonomous platform, why not have a boat or chopper nearby with another camera?
Evidently, they did have another camera (or two) that captured the crash according to eMusk... not yet released.
Turns out, however, that what I thought was a signal interruption on second look was actually an obscuring of the camera by water and debris from the impact (the drone camera never went dark... just very gray before the feed itself was cut). Probably should have figured something was up (or down) when the on-screen talent said how they were hoping to get the signal back when they never actual lost the signal.
This is soo kick arse I can't believe it. For you youngins, it reminds me of the heady days of Apollo. We were just arrogant enough to say 'we got this'. Awesome.
I've watched the side booster landing at least 20 times now in the past 24 hours. Tried to show it to my kids last night, but AirPlay wasn't working.
Isn't that a kick.... we have the knowledge and technology to synchronously land two rockets on a dime but I can't figure out my damn wi-fi router.
Quote from: Benny B on February 07, 2018, 04:14:42 PM
I've watched the side booster landing at least 20 times now in the past 24 hours. Tried to show it to my kids last night, but AirPlay wasn't working.
Isn't that a kick.... we have the knowledge and technology to synchronously land two rockets on a dime but I can't figure out my damn wi-fi router.
And we still can't cure the common cold....
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 07, 2018, 04:17:57 PM
And we still can't cure the common cold....
That's because it's not that common.
I don't get the fascination with space travel. Technology is cool, but I'm not getting up in arms over a rocket.
Is it a generational thing? I just feel like satellites, rockets, space shuttles are so common it's not really not that intriguing to me.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 07, 2018, 07:08:22 PM
I don't get the fascination with space travel. Technology is cool, but I'm not getting up in arms over a rocket.
Is it a generational thing? I just feel like satellites, rockets, space shuttles are so common it's not really not that intriguing to me.
I think we're part of the same generation.
I thought that was incredible.
But I'm a nerd who went to space camp. So...
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 07, 2018, 07:08:22 PM
I don't get the fascination with space travel. Technology is cool, but I'm not getting up in arms over a rocket.
Is it a generational thing? I just feel like satellites, rockets, space shuttles are so common it's not really not that intriguing to me.
I do think it's a generational thing chitown. I'm old enough to remember watching the Apollo 11 moon landing well. It was like witnessing Columbus discover the 'new world' live on TV. So special.
Paypal (where his wealth started)
Space X
Tesla
Solar City
The Boring Company (Hyperloop)
He is also building a vertical take-off and landing supersonic jet electric aircraft with electric fan propulsion, known as the Musk electric jet.
Many argue his equals are Thomas Edison and Henry Ford.
You agree?
No. They physically invented things. Elon Musk has a vision and works with and directs teams to create them. I give him very high marks as a visionary, though.
Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2018, 06:35:04 AM
No. They physically invented things. Elon Musk has a vision and works with and directs teams to create them. I give him very high marks as a visionary, though.
Curious though - do you not think Ford and Edison also directed people based on a vision?
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 08, 2018, 07:02:21 AM
Curious though - do you not think Ford and Edison also directed people based on a vision?
I view Musk as closer to Ford than to Edison. Splitting very fine hairs, though. Not worth fighting over.
Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2018, 07:24:11 AM
I view Musk as closer to Ford than to Edison. Splitting very fine hairs, though. Not worth fighting over.
Do you think it is fair to put him the company of an Edison and/or Ford? Or is this a reflection of our recency bias? (Musk is now and we overvalue current accomplishments versus old black and white images in history books.)
at this point, Musk is more of a Nikola Tesla, than a Ford or Edison. Nikola had some early success (AC) and some other minor triumphs (did he beat Marconi on wireless? Debatable.), but ultimately ended up chasing dreams.
Musk has a chance to move to the Edison/Ford level, but time will tell.
Musk has vision. And because of PayPal, he has $. Tesla lost $2 billion last year and is struggling with production. I will let history judge.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 08, 2018, 07:33:03 AM
Do you think it is fair to put him the company of an Edison and/or Ford? Or is this a reflection of our recency bias? (Musk is now and we overvalue current accomplishments versus old black and white images in history books.)
I'll split the hairs....
Edison is known more for
what he did, Ford is mostly known for
how he did it. Edison's greatest invention was
either the elephant electrifier or the light bulb... in other words, a tangible thing. Ford's greatest invention was the assembly line... in other words, a process.
Ignoring the societal impact of their respective accomplishments for a moment, outside of providing light (and "baking" brownies with a gooey center), the lightbulb doesn't really have much utilization. In fact, none of Edison's inventions really have an utility except what they were designed for. The assembly line, on the other hand, had a widespread impact on many industries.... one might even argue that even today's IT was influenced in part by the concept of the assembly line.
Ford - in today's vernacular - was a disrupter just like Musk.
Although I'm not sure that Ford ever took deposits for the Model T and booked them as ordinary income.
Quote from: Benny B on February 08, 2018, 08:27:11 AM
Although I'm not sure that Ford ever took deposits for the Model T and booked them as ordinary income.
He did not
But Ford also did not build a rocket to fire his car into space, work on a revolutionary way to solve traffic, run the largest solar company in the country, design an electric vertical landing airplane ... and before all this completely change the payment system in the country.
Long after humans are extinct, when neither Edison's nor Ford's innovations will matter, Musk's rocket will still be soaring through the cosmos with Space Man in a Tesla booming Bowie.
Musk wins! Musk wins! Musk wins!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 08, 2018, 09:05:05 AM
Long after humans are extinct, when neither Edison's nor Ford's innovations will matter, Musk's rocket will still be soaring through the cosmos with Space Man in a Tesla booming Bowie.
Musk wins! Musk wins! Musk wins!
The sad part is no one will be able to hear Bowie in space.
Quote from: Benny B on February 08, 2018, 08:27:11 AM
I'll split the hairs....
Edison is known more for what he did, Ford is mostly known for how he did it. Edison's greatest invention was either the elephant electrifier or the light bulb... in other words, a tangible thing. Ford's greatest invention was the assembly line... in other words, a process.
Ignoring the societal impact of their respective accomplishments for a moment, outside of providing light (and "baking" brownies with a gooey center), the lightbulb doesn't really have much utilization. In fact, none of Edison's inventions really have an utility except what they were designed for. The assembly line, on the other hand, had a widespread impact on many industries.... one might even argue that even today's IT was influenced in part by the concept of the assembly line.
Ford - in today's vernacular - was a disrupter just like Musk.
Although I'm not sure that Ford ever took deposits for the Model T and booked them as ordinary income.
I'll put a further point of the ends of those split hairs.....Edison was an inventor, Ford was a facilitator. Musk is 100% a facilitator.
I'm still amazed that there are still vocal opponents of Musk who think he is a charlatan and/or a con artist. Legit criticisms of Tesla's financial valuations or not liking that a public company is essential a large R&D operation burning cash is fine, but acting like he's full of it or intentionally deceiving people is silly. He has huge and fantastical dreams and all of it is for the greater good of society as a whole, and he's put his money where his mouth is plenty of times. Is it all gonna work? Probably not. But I don't see anyone else taking the risks or making the varied efforts that he is.
He's Tesla without the electromagnetic poisoning and mental instability. And Tony Stark without the technical expertise haha.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 08, 2018, 12:09:52 PM
He's Tesla without the electromagnetic poisoning and mental instability. And Tony Stark without the technical expertise haha.
Very nice. What are you, his perfect biographer?
Quote from: Benny B on February 08, 2018, 03:27:47 PM
Very nice. What are you, his perfect biographer?
Haha, nah, then I would added something stupid like "the imagination of Jobs, with the daring intellect of Einstein. He's not perfect, he's taken some liberties and had some substantial F-ups, but I admire his upside.
I'm just pumped to have someone like him in a position of influence and effectiveness and am always amused at what people, other than traditional car makers or the like, have against him or his goals. If Hyperloop comes to fruition or they develop battery technology that allows an electric car to go 500+ miles on a charge or a battery that can be replaced in minutes, who cares what sort of profit TSLA posted in Q3 a few years prior, IMO
Quote from: JWags85 on February 08, 2018, 06:03:30 PM
Haha, nah, then I would added something stupid like "the imagination of Jobs, with the daring intellect of Einstein. He's not perfect, he's taken some liberties and had some substantial F-ups, but I admire his upside.
I'm just pumped to have someone like him in a position of influence and effectiveness and am always amused at what people, other than traditional car makers or the like, have against him or his goals. If Hyperloop comes to fruition or they develop battery technology that allows an electric car to go 500+ miles on a charge or a battery that can be replaced in minutes, who cares what sort of profit TSLA posted in Q3 a few years prior, IMO
I'm mad that I agree with heisy. But I do. Too many obstacles in the way of success for someone like musk. "Traditional car makers" are a good example. Literally trying to squash a change that's better for society as a whole because it will make them obsolete. It should be illegal.
"Private enterprise will never lead a space frontier. In all the history of human conduct, it's as clear to me as day follows night that private enterprise won't do that, because it's expensive. It's dangerous. You have uncertainty and risks, because you're dealing with things that haven't been done before. That's what it means to be on a frontier."
NDT being wrong is delicious.
Quote from: PTM on February 08, 2018, 07:51:24 PM
"Private enterprise will never lead a space frontier. In all the history of human conduct, it's as clear to me as day follows night that private enterprise won't do that, because it's expensive. It's dangerous. You have uncertainty and risks, because you're dealing with things that haven't been done before. That's what it means to be on a frontier."
NDT being wrong is delicious.
Dangerous and expensive is never a deterrent from private enterprise. See oil exploration.
They will not do it until a profit motive has been established. How does one make money going to space? Note that Musk is working on perfecting a "truck" to deliver payloads to space as cost-effectively as possible. Beyond this, how else does one make money in space?
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 08, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
Dangerous and expensive is never a deterrent from private enterprise. See oil exploration.
They will not do it until a profit motive has been established. How does one make money going to space? Note that Musk is working on perfecting a "truck" to deliver payloads to space as cost-effectively as possible. Beyond this, how else does one make money in space?
Mining
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 08, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Mining
Bringing space creatures back to earth for possible exploitation by unscrupulous corporate types.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 08, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
Dangerous and expensive is never a deterrent from private enterprise. See oil exploration.
They will not do it until a profit motive has been established. How does one make money going to space? Note that Musk is working on perfecting a "truck" to deliver payloads to space as cost-effectively as possible. Beyond this, how else does one make money in space?
Patents on space logistics and technology.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 08, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Mining
mining what? and getting it to earth?
will never be practical
How about tourism? if this is only something the 1% can afford, it will never go beyond a novelty.
Quote from: PTM on February 08, 2018, 08:46:52 PM
Patents on space logistics and technology.
explain
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 08, 2018, 08:47:55 PM
mining what? and getting it to earth?
will never be practical
How about tourism? if this is only something the 1% can afford, it will never go beyond a novelty.
Never?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 08, 2018, 09:05:05 AM
Long after humans are extinct, when neither Edison's nor Ford's innovations will matter, Musk's rocket will still be soaring through the cosmos with Space Man in a Tesla booming Bowie.
Musk wins! Musk wins! Musk wins!
Well, technically Space Man and his Tesla will fairly quickly be torn apart by radiation in space. So I certainly hope we are not going extinct before then.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 08, 2018, 10:10:31 PM
Never?
If only the 1% can afford it ... yes, it never goes beyond a novelty and not a serious business.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 09, 2018, 10:03:38 AM
If only the 1% can afford it ... yes, it never goes beyond a novelty and not a serious business.
I was talking about mining
(https://www.space.com/images/i/000/016/878/original/asteroid-resources-mining-120424d-02.jpg?1335213930)
Quote from: jsglow on February 07, 2018, 08:47:19 PM
I do think it's a generational thing chitown. I'm old enough to remember watching the Apollo 11 moon landing well. It was like witnessing Columbus discover the 'new world' live on TV. So special.
Apollo 11 probably was the greatest single accomplishment this country has ever set out to do. In less than 10 years, we went from barely being able to get a rocket off the launch pad at the Cape without having it blow up to landing two men on the moon.
Yes, the moon.
You almost had to be alive at the time to understand how amazing it was. The computer on Apollo 11 had less computing power than your average simple calculator today. Your cell phone is far more sophisticated than just about anything they had at NASA and yet here's some of the world's brightest people (along with a few Nazis) putting Neil Armstrong down within a few yards of what they planned on the surface of the Moon, 238,000 miles away.
As Walter Cronkite said at the time, "wow!"
Quote from: warriorchick on February 08, 2018, 08:45:00 PM
Bringing space creatures back to earth for possible exploitation by unscrupulous corporate types.
That lends a whole new definition to the term illegal alien.
Hmmmmm, how are we going to build a wall on that one?????
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 09, 2018, 03:53:49 PM
That lends a whole new definition to the term illegal alien.
Hmmmmm, how are we going to build a wall on that one?????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 08, 2018, 08:47:55 PM
mining what? and getting it to earth?
will never be practical
How about tourism? if this is only something the 1% can afford, it will never go beyond a novelty.
I've been agreeing with you a lot lately. But you're high if you think space mining isn't a HUGE future industry.
Elon Musk is my personal hero btw. Puts all his cash on the line to better the world, and has a real shot to make insane money from his Falcon Heavy investment. Even if Tesla isn't making money, its producing TECH. And that matters. First to tech, first to patent. He can subsidize any Tesla loss with the gains from SpaceX and have money left over.
How is Elon Musk bettering the world? It seems to me he's just rolling over his fortune to make more money.
Now Bill Gates on the other hand...
Quote from: #bansultan on February 09, 2018, 06:02:35 PM
How is Elon Musk bettering the world? It seems to me he's just rolling over his fortune to make more money.
Now Bill Gates on the other hand...
Potential to launch satellites way cheaper (allows more entry), electric vehicles (lower CO2 emissions), instant transfer of money across the net... and he is trying to get humans off our rock... I mean I don't care if he makes money his investments, in fact I encourage it. We need a helluva lot more people like him. He is actually creating something. If you're comparing him to Bill Gates... fine. Bill Gates is right at the top of my list as well. Absolute fantastic philanthropist, and his spouse is equally admirable. Their work to diminish deaths from malaria alone is amazing... but we aren't comparing levels of 'awesomeness'.
A man that cares this much about his life's work is impossible to not admire. His was told his heroes don't think what he is doing is a good idea (they later clarified their statements, but their original words clearly affect him), and he refuses to give up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGqMZQAMio&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGqMZQAMio&feature=youtu.be)
Quote from: forgetful on February 08, 2018, 10:14:22 PM
Well, technically Space Man and his Tesla will fairly quickly be torn apart by radiation in space. So I certainly hope we are not going extinct before then.
Folks from NASA and Harvard seem to disagree.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/09/technology/future/tesla-orbit-elon-musk-spacex/index.html