Could have put this in the "bright spots" thread, but I thought Theo's play warranted its own thread.
A monster game that was unfortunately overshadowed by a disappointing loss. Besides being perfect from the field on the way to a career high in points he had 5 monster blocks (and a sixth was ruled a steal instead).
He's come a long way from the guy who would pick up 4 fouls in 6 minutes of play.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 05, 2018, 12:58:39 PM
Could have put this in the "bright spots" thread, but I thought Theo's play warranted its own thread.
A monster game that was unfortunately overshadowed by a disappointing loss. Besides being perfect from the field on the way to a career high in points he had 5 monster blocks (and a sixth was ruled a steal instead).
He's come a long way from the guy who would pick up 4 fouls in 6 minutes of play.
If we had won, Theo might have been SOTG.
It may not have been highly ranked but Wojo hit an absolute homerun with his 2017 recruiting class.
Amazing game by Theo. He clearly would have been SOTG if we had won.
The only negative was the offensive goaltending, but I'll take an overall performance like that any day.
If Theo keeps that up and we can get Markus, and more specifically Rowsey, back on their game, 5-2 or better is a legit possibility.
As I projected several weeks ago with respect to Heldt's minutes in 18-19, he is going to be at the end of the bench. He is basically already there - he has averaged 8 MPG over his last four and only played 5 minutes against PC. Add Morrow to the mix next season and Heldt is going to be the 4th option in the post. Which I think is a good thing. Matt seems like a great guy and works very hard, but he is not a HM starting center, but will be very useful as a guy that can with with energy in spurts in a loaded front court next season.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 05, 2018, 01:04:08 PM
Amazing game by Theo. He clearly would have been SOTG if we had won.
The only negative was the offensive goaltending, but I'll take an overall performance like that any day.
Agree with SOTG assessment by Gooooo and Chick. If only.
Theo walked over to Wojo right after the goaltending, probably expecting the worst, and got a hug and a "you know what you did". Nice moment I guess. Not many of those to talk about these days.
The stretch that Theo sat in the second half cost us the game. He was the only player that could match their physicality. Mind blowing that we took him out and went small.
Anyone have his +/-? Had to be approaching +20
I'm not sure he can play 30. He has to rest at some point. He played well. This was his game to shine, just like Elliott and Cain have had glorious moments. The frosh have upside. They, like most freshmen, need consistency. They are all counters to the argument that Wojo can't develop players. All are better than they were at the beginning of the year. They have no fear. But the Big East is not a league where relying on freshmen is going to translate to wins.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 01:27:02 PM
I'm not sure he can play 30. He has to rest at some point. He played well. This was his game to shine, just like Elliott and Cain have had glorious moments. The frosh have upside. They, like most freshmen, need consistency. They are all counters to the argument that Wojo can't develop players. All are better than they were at the beginning of the year. They have no fear. But the Big East is not a league where relying on freshmen is going to translate to wins.
Agree with everything here, but both Haanif and Sandy showed similar potential their freshman year. It's on Wojo to get them to take the next step. That is where Wojo has a spotty record at best.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 01:27:02 PM
I'm not sure he can play 30. He has to rest at some point. He played well. This was his game to shine, just like Elliott and Cain have had glorious moments. The frosh have upside. They, like most freshmen, need consistency. They are all counters to the argument that Wojo can't develop players. All are better than they were at the beginning of the year. They have no fear. But the Big East is not a league where relying on freshmen is going to translate to wins.
Why the heck could Theo not play 30?
Theo was great. Wojo was trying to change up and get more offense on the floor. It didn't work, but I don't think the margin with that line up in was terrible. (I have been trying to find a play-by-play that includes substitutions but can't find one to verify.)
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 05, 2018, 01:36:25 PM
Why the heck could Theo not play 30?
Prior to Saturday, what was his highest minutes played in a game this season? I will hang up and listen while you search. The simple reason is that making a big leap in minutes played in a game does not equate to sustained success. And bigs, particularly ones playing with high energy have trouble playing that many minutes. But, I keep forgetting. He goes to MU, so the principles of experience mattering, minutes played, height, weight, don't matter. Every player at MU, because he is at MU, should be able to play 40 minutes. Should never play like a freshhman. Or sophomore. Or miss a free throw when they shoot over 90%. Or wear out from playing too many minutes. Even if they are (maybe) 5'10, it is a disgrace that a 6'5 player should be able to post them up. If they are 6'7 and 190, no 6'8, 230 senior should be able to physically dominate them. If they have a thumb requiring surgery, it shouldn't affect their play. Because the name on the front of the jersey magically fixes all of that.
He needed a freaking rest.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
Prior to Saturday, what was his highest minutes played in a game this season? I will hang up and listen while you search. The simple reason is that making a big leap in minutes played in a game does not equate to sustained success. And bigs, particularly ones playing with high energy have trouble playing that many minutes. But, I keep forgetting. He goes to MU, so the principles of experience mattering, minutes played, height, weight, don't matter. Every player at MU, because he is at MU, should be able to play 40 minutes. Should never play like a freshhman. Or sophomore. Or miss a free throw when they shoot over 90%. Or wear out from playing too many minutes. Even if they are (maybe) 5'10, it is a disgrace that a 6'5 player should be able to post them up. If they are 6'7 and 190, no 6'8, 230 senior should be able to physically dominate them. If they have a thumb requiring surgery, it shouldn't affect their play. Because the name on the front of the jersey magically fixes all of that.
He needed a freaking rest.
solid rant
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 05, 2018, 01:36:25 PM
Why the heck could Theo not play 30?
Yup, and when he sat we'd have been better off with Heldt rather than go full midget.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
Prior to Saturday, what was his highest minutes played in a game this season? I will hang up and listen while you search. The simple reason is that making a big leap in minutes played in a game does not equate to sustained success. And bigs, particularly ones playing with high energy have trouble playing that many minutes. But, I keep forgetting. He goes to MU, so the principles of experience mattering, minutes played, height, weight, don't matter. Every player at MU, because he is at MU, should be able to play 40 minutes. Should never play like a freshhman. Or sophomore. Or miss a free throw when they shoot over 90%. Or wear out from playing too many minutes. Even if they are (maybe) 5'10, it is a disgrace that a 6'5 player should be able to post them up. If they are 6'7 and 190, no 6'8, 230 senior should be able to physically dominate them. If they have a thumb requiring surgery, it shouldn't affect their play. Because the name on the front of the jersey magically fixes all of that.
He needed a freaking rest.
That begs the question then, would you have a fresh Heldt/Froling or a somewhat fatigued Theo? Given how Theo was playing up until that point compared to the others, I think 5 more minutes would have paid off. Just a completely different presence with him on the floor.
Quote from: WayOfTheWarrior on February 05, 2018, 01:57:45 PM
That begs the question then, would you have a fresh Heldt/Froling or a somewhat fatigued Theo? Given how Theo was playing up until that point compared to the others, I think 5 more minutes would have paid off. Just a completely different presence with him on the floor.
Theo was absolutely the best big on the floor on Saturday. But if he is gassed, get him out for 5 minutes in real time/ 2-3 minutes of game time and go with a fresh Froling. Or Heldt, if you have to. A gassed big is more prone to fouls and turnovers.
I am sorry for the rant. But at times, I feel like people don't watch other teams, other games. They don't see freshmen being physically beat up or being inconsistent. They don't notice bigs getting tired more quickly. They don't see other teams struggle to defend the pick and roll. They don't notice what happens to other really young teams in major conferences. Or teams with short benches. They don't notice patterns, ebbs, flows, rhythms, actions and consequences that happen in every game and in most programs. And because of this, they think MU should be immune to these things. Or they don't recognize what is happening at MU is not unique to MU.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 02:12:09 PM
Theo was absolutely the best big on the floor on Saturday. But if he is gassed, get him out for 5 minutes in real time/ 2-3 minutes of game time and go with a fresh Froling. Or Heldt, if you have to. A gassed big is more prone to fouls and turnovers.
I didn't mind him taking out Theo for a rest. I minded that he didn't go with Froling or Heldt for that stretch. He went with Hauser at center, and we could not stop them. After a timeout, he kept that lineup for a few more possessions. That's how you end up with a 5-10 guard with 4 fouls attempting to guard a player more than a half a foot taller in the post with no help. We weren't scoring at the time so I think he decided he wanted another offensive player, but the best you could hope for was trading baskets because with their size we weren't going to stop them much, if at all.
That and wasting our last timeout to call a play that backfired were my two biggest complaints. Not a bad coaching night but a couple of bad decisions, at least to me. I didn't like the TO at all because it allowed them to set their defense, and I like us on the run more than in a set half court.
I also did not like going small at that point.
CT,
Rowdy was guarding the second smallest player in Providences lineup. They run 4 guys 6"6 or taller, all 220 lbs or heavier. Either Markus or Rowdy was going to be guarding that guy or someone bigger as long as they were both in the game. Didn't matta who was at center.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 05, 2018, 02:30:03 PM
CT,
Rowdy was guarding the second smallest player in Providences lineup. They run 4 guys 6"6 or taller, all 220 lbs or heavier. Either Markus or Rowdy was going to be guarding that guy or someone bigger as long as they were both in the game. Didn't matta who was at center.
I understand that, but no big around to provide help when the ball went into the post. As soon as we went completely small they went right to that tactic. Perhaps this team should have some sort of zone defense when the midgets are in. I realize they are easy to shoot over, but is that really worse than layup after foul after layup after allowed put back?
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on February 05, 2018, 01:22:58 PM
The stretch that Theo sat in the second half cost us the game. He was the only player that could match their physicality. Mind blowing that we took him out and went small.
Anyone have his +/-? Had to be approaching +20
This. Perfect evidence of how Wojo still has a ways to go to improve as a coach. He's improved. But, this was a perfect example of a big in-game coaching "miss" by Wojo. Can't have that and expect to win games with a young team.
Theo was playing his ass off and absolutely was a bright spot, along with Greg.
Is Joey more physical than Sam?
I want to see more of John and Froling together, maybe even give John the start over the aussie. Heldt however needs to see his minutes reduced even more. Wojo puts him in there for the seniority, and he doesn't do bad. He's just not as talented or strong as the other two.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 05, 2018, 02:30:03 PM
CT,
Rowdy was guarding the second smallest player in Providences lineup. They run 4 guys 6"6 or taller, all 220 lbs or heavier. Either Markus or Rowdy was going to be guarding that guy or someone bigger as long as they were both in the game. Didn't matta who was at center.
Especially when Anim is face guarding Cartwright, the smallest guy on the court for PC. If Rowsey and Howard are on the court together, they're both guarding 6-6 or bigger guys.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 05, 2018, 02:50:15 PM
I want to see more of John and Froling together, maybe even give John the start over the aussie. Heldt however needs to see his minutes reduced even more. Wojo puts him in there for the seniority, and he doesn't do bad. He's just not as talented or strong as the other two.
Froling is undoubtedly more talented than Matt offensively, but I'd give the nod to Matt defensively by a wide margin. Harry just isn't a good defensively player from what I've observed. Given everyone has been screaming for more defense, I'm not sure Froling is the answer.
Quote from: Oldgym on February 05, 2018, 01:22:14 PM
Theo walked over to Wojo right after the goaltending, probably expecting the worst, and got a hug and a "you know what you did". Nice moment I guess. Not many of those to talk about these days.
Yeah seen that. That how Good coaches encourage and gain players respect.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 05, 2018, 02:50:15 PM
I want to see more of John and Froling together, maybe even give John the start over the aussie. Heldt however needs to see his minutes reduced even more. Wojo puts him in there for the seniority, and he doesn't do bad. He's just not as talented or strong as the other two.
Heldt played 5 minutes on Saturday.
He's going to go with whomever is giving them what they need. That's what you have to do when you have a junior with limited ability, a freshman with limited experience and a sophomore who really isn't a center.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
Prior to Saturday, what was his highest minutes played in a game this season? I will hang up and listen while you search. The simple reason is that making a big leap in minutes played in a game does not equate to sustained success. And bigs, particularly ones playing with high energy have trouble playing that many minutes. But, I keep forgetting. He goes to MU, so the principles of experience mattering, minutes played, height, weight, don't matter. Every player at MU, because he is at MU, should be able to play 40 minutes. Should never play like a freshhman. Or sophomore. Or miss a free throw when they shoot over 90%. Or wear out from playing too many minutes. Even if they are (maybe) 5'10, it is a disgrace that a 6'5 player should be able to post them up. If they are 6'7 and 190, no 6'8, 230 senior should be able to physically dominate them. If they have a thumb requiring surgery, it shouldn't affect their play. Because the name on the front of the jersey magically fixes all of that.
He needed a freaking rest.
Not to mention all the whiners consistently forget that other coaches/players/programs are trying to succeed just as much as MU.
This rant needs to be pinned to the top of the board
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
Prior to Saturday, what was his highest minutes played in a game this season? I will hang up and listen while you search. The simple reason is that making a big leap in minutes played in a game does not equate to sustained success. And bigs, particularly ones playing with high energy have trouble playing that many minutes. But, I keep forgetting. He goes to MU, so the principles of experience mattering, minutes played, height, weight, don't matter. Every player at MU, because he is at MU, should be able to play 40 minutes. Should never play like a freshhman. Or sophomore. Or miss a free throw when they shoot over 90%. Or wear out from playing too many minutes. Even if they are (maybe) 5'10, it is a disgrace that a 6'5 player should be able to post them up. If they are 6'7 and 190, no 6'8, 230 senior should be able to physically dominate them. If they have a thumb requiring surgery, it shouldn't affect their play. Because the name on the front of the jersey magically fixes all of that.
He needed a freaking rest.
Wow ok so there is just no way Theo could have played 4-6 more minutes in one single game? That is asinine. Theo tired was WAY better then any other option on Saturday. Wednesday he may suck and only play 5 minutes but he should have played more on Saturday.
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 05, 2018, 03:27:07 PM
Wow ok so there is just no way Theo could have played 4-6 more minutes in one single game? That is asinine. Theo tired was WAY better then any other option on Saturday. Wednesday he may suck and only play 5 minutes but he should have played more on Saturday.
Agree. These guys have the energy especially in the adrenaline-filled moments at the end of games. No I am not Theo or coach Wojo but I have an inkling he had enough gas in the tank to continue making an impact. His foul rate is down and his production is up. Regardless, fantastic game by Theo. I just don't think he gets enough recognition from announcers for being such a big freshman!
Theo played well on Saturday and avoided the stupid fouls. Far too early to count on that type of performance on regular basis, and possibly not even on irregular basis. I know we all want to find positives or a silver lining, but I recommend watching a few more games before allowing Theo mania to reach a fever pitch. Last year Matt had an early Feb "big" game and he was the answer for many.
Again, baby steps. He played well and that is a positive. Lets see how things shake out on Wednesday night and discuss again.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 05, 2018, 02:58:31 PM
Froling is undoubtedly more talented than Matt offensively, but I'd give the nod to Matt defensively by a wide margin. Harry just isn't a good defensively player from what I've observed. Given everyone has been screaming for more defense, I'm not sure Froling is the answer.
The answer you're looking for is Ed Morrow.
Matt is a defensive upgrade from Harry in a similar way that single ply TP is an upgrade from poison ivy.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 05, 2018, 02:37:18 PM
I understand that, but no big around to provide help when the ball went into the post. As soon as we went completely small they went right to that tactic. Perhaps this team should have some sort of zone defense when the midgets are in. I realize they are easy to shoot over, but is that really worse than layup after foul after layup after allowed put back?
You hit the nail on the head. Wojo doesn't designate guys to protect the rim. Our big guy, whether it is Theo, Harry or Matt should not guard 20' from the basket. Their number one responsibility should be to protect the rim. Block shots. Intimidate.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 05, 2018, 03:45:06 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Wojo doesn't designate guys to protect the rim. Our big guy, whether it is Theo, Harry or Matt should not guard 20' from the basket. Their number one responsibility should be to protect the rim. Block shots. Intimidate.
What would you have the center do when the opposing center is setting a ball screen at the 3 point line?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 05, 2018, 03:45:06 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Wojo doesn't designate guys to protect the rim. Our big guy, whether it is Theo, Harry or Matt should not guard 20' from the basket. Their number one responsibility should be to protect the rim. Block shots. Intimidate.
That could work... if either:
A) Opponents never ran pick and rolls against us
B) Our guards were good enough to defenders to get around picks from opposing centers and still pick up their man
Since neither is true, you have to have the big men help cover the pick and roll...which is the only time our bigs are "20 feet from the basket"
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 05, 2018, 03:48:41 PM
What would you have the center do when the opposing center is setting a ball screen at the 3 point line?
Protect the rim.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 05, 2018, 04:02:12 PM
That could work... if either:
A) Opponents never ran pick and rolls against us
B) Our guards were good enough to defenders to get around picks from opposing centers and still pick up their man
Since neither is true, you have to have the big men help cover the pick and roll...which is the only time our bigs are "20 feet from the basket"
I would have them sag back to protect the rim. Hey, we give up way too many bunnies.
The problem when the big sags on the high pick and roll is that the guard is at the mercy of the pick. You then have an open 3 or a point guard in space going to the rim with a trailer, forcing the sagging big to choose. Open 3, pull up jumper, driving guard, or driving guard dropping off to the trailing big when the sagging big commits.
The entire purpose of the high pick and roll is to create defensive switches, movement, and opportunities, either mismatches or openings. Sagging is a choice, but not a solution.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 05, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
If Theo keeps that up and we can get Markus, and more specifically Rowsey, back on their game, 5-2 or better is a legit possibility.
As I projected several weeks ago with respect to Heldt's minutes in 18-19, he is going to be at the end of the bench. He is basically already there - he has averaged 8 MPG over his last four and only played 5 minutes against PC. Add Morrow to the mix next season and Heldt is going to be the 4th option in the post. Which I think is a good thing. Matt seems like a great guy and works very hard, but he is not a HM starting center, but will be very useful as a guy that can with with energy in spurts in a loaded front court next season.
And what is MU's record in those 4 games?? Causation or correlation, but surely not coincidence.
But, seriously, Theo would have had my vote for SOTG.
Quote from: WayOfTheWarrior on February 05, 2018, 03:40:16 PM
The answer you're looking for is Ed Morrow.
Matt is a defensive upgrade from Harry in a similar way that single ply TP is an upgrade from poison ivy.
Thank you for that. We need the laughs.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2018, 05:31:03 PM
The problem when the big sags on the high pick and roll is that the guard is at the mercy of the pick. You then have an open 3 or a point guard in space going to the rim with a trailer, forcing the sagging big to choose. Open 3, pull up jumper, driving guard, or driving guard dropping off to the trailing big when the sagging big commits.
The entire purpose of the high pick and roll is to create defensive switches, movement, and opportunities, either mismatches or openings. Sagging is a choice, but not a solution.
Exactly. To get our big out of position, so they can score bunnies. Reference... all our games this year.
How many college basketball games do you watch a year? How often do you see the the big sag on pick and rolls? (Hint: rarely) When the rim is protected, it is by a recovering big or a sagging wing with size from the weak side. Otule and to a lesser extent Gardner were decent at recovering. But the last two years, when the defender guarding the weak side spot up corner shooter sags down low to stop the roller, (which is done almost everywhere) too often it is Markus or Andrew. Good coaching exploiting the obvious weakness in MU 's defense. MSU runs the exact same scheme. But the sagging weakside defensive wing has size.
So next year, with a lineup of Howard, Elliot, Sam, Morrow, and John, Markus and Theo will hedge the PG and turn him. The big will roll, Theo will be trying to recover, probably with his hands up, using his lateral quickness and wingspan to disrupt that pass. The weakside wing leaving the spot up shooter in the corner will be Sam, Morrow, Elliot or SOMEBODY NOT 5'10. Sacar/Joey/Jamal/Brendan. Do you see the potential difference?
Quote from: LloydsLegs on February 05, 2018, 06:13:25 PM
And what is MU's record in those 4 games?? Causation or correlation, but surely not coincidence.
But, seriously, Theo would have had my vote for SOTG.
MU is not 0-4 in their last four games due to a lack of production from Matt Heldt.
Howard's shot was not going in that Theo grabbed. You let it go after you hear a whistle for the chance you get some wild bounce, but that thing was bouncing out.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 05, 2018, 03:45:06 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Wojo doesn't designate guys to protect the rim. Our big guy, whether it is Theo, Harry or Matt should not guard 20' from the basket. Their number one responsibility should be to protect the rim. Block shots. Intimidate.
Ah, the magic word, intimidate or be intimidated.
You'd think Theo was a 45 year old with a dad body or something according to experts.
18-21 year olds are gassed after 24 minutes of ball? Sad
A classic question of hot hand vs. season long production. Coaches face this question often. Theo was having the game of his career so far....but the offense had stalled (with Theo in the game) and we needed offense. Excluding Saturday's game, what about Theo John's career to date would have told you that he should be included in a lineup to jump start the offense? Nothing, nada. He might have been the last player you put in that situation. So do you ride the hot hand? Or go with the players have been better offensively all season? It's a tough call and it seems like Wojo made the wrong one this time. The only guarantee in these situations is that the fans will be pissed no matter which one you pick if the game ends in a loss. I remember people just last season criticizing Wojo for drawing up the final play against Pitt for Andrew even though he had been the hot hand all game.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 05, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
As I projected several weeks ago with respect to Heldt's minutes in 18-19, he is going to be at the end of the bench. He is basically already there - he has averaged 8 MPG over his last four and only played 5 minutes against PC. Add Morrow to the mix next season and Heldt is going to be the 4th option in the post. Which I think is a good thing. Matt seems like a great guy and works very hard, but he is not a HM starting center, but will be very useful as a guy that can with with energy in spurts in a loaded front court next season.
If Matt gets over 8-10 minutes a game next year, it will be a very long season (since expectations will be much higher to start with),
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 06, 2018, 01:08:16 AM
A classic question of hot hand vs. season long production. Coaches face this question often. Theo was having the game of his career so far....but the offense had stalled (with Theo in the game) and we needed offense. Excluding Saturday's game, what about Theo John's career to date would have told you that he should be included in a lineup to jump start the offense? Nothing, nada. He might have been the last player you put in that situation. So do you ride the hot hand? Or go with the players have been better offensively all season? It's a tough call and it seems like Wojo made the wrong one this time. The only guarantee in these situations is that the fans will be pissed no matter which one you pick if the game ends in a loss. I remember people just last season criticizing Wojo for drawing up the final play against Pitt for Andrew even though he had been the hot hand all game.
His solution to the Theo "problem" was to not even have a center on the floor for a stretch of time. That goes well beyond the realm of normal decision-making. This game was extremely close... That kind of decision was just bizarre. You just can't have 4 turnstyles on the court and hope that Sam Hauser of all people will clean up the mess.
I just wanted to clarify that yes, his decision was to go for more "offense" (by offense I mean season-long offense, as several of the players he went with were bad offensively all game) but it was a decision that in no way shape or form could have worked.
Theo had an opportunity for so many blocks in this game because he was the only one who could stop what was clearly their gameplan. It wasn't just luck. Taking Theo out just opened the dam right back up and voila, gameplan continues unimpeded.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 05, 2018, 08:19:01 PM
MU is not 0-4 in their last four games due to a lack of production from Matt Heldt.
I think you missed the "seriously". C'mon JJJJJ.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 06, 2018, 01:08:16 AM
A classic question of hot hand vs. season long production. Coaches face this question often. Theo was having the game of his career so far....but the offense had stalled (with Theo in the game) and we needed offense. Excluding Saturday's game, what about Theo John's career to date would have told you that he should be included in a lineup to jump start the offense? Nothing, nada. He might have been the last player you put in that situation. So do you ride the hot hand? Or go with the players have been better offensively all season? It's a tough call and it seems like Wojo made the wrong one this time. The only guarantee in these situations is that the fans will be pissed no matter which one you pick if the game ends in a loss. I remember people just last season criticizing Wojo for drawing up the final play against Pitt for Andrew even though he had been the hot hand all game.
What we needed was to not let Providence continue to beat us up physically at the rim and scoring at a high rate at/near the basket.
Theo was totally and completely locked in against Providence - you could say, "in the zone," even. (On both ends of the floor.) You don't NOT ride that for max minutes. Especially not in a matchup with a team where we struggle to compete athletically/physically.
You make some well reasoned points here, however this is not one of them
When you're team goes 9 minutes of game time without a FG, I can understand why a coach would try something "bizzare" to get the offense going. And while not often used, it is pretty common for teams to have a "death" lineup of 5 smaller players.
It was the wrong call but I can understand the thought process behind it. Our guys needed to see the ball go though the hoop.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 06, 2018, 08:33:57 AM
When you're team goes 9 minutes of game time without a FG, I can understand why a coach would try something "bizzare" to get the offense going. And while not often used, it is pretty common for teams to have a "death" lineup of 5 smaller players.
It was the wrong call but I can understand the thought process behind it. Our guys needed to see the ball go though the hoop.
I could also see the smaller lineup because of the length that PC had at the top of their zone. With our shooters we should be begging teams to zone us, for whatever reason we were extremely poor against it on Saturday.
Just curious if anyone was able to figure out our +/- with Theo in and out of the game. Seems I used to be able to figure this out with various sites' game trackers, but I can't find any that list substitutions anymore.
I know it isn't the critical stat that some make it out to be, but I find it interesting...when I can find it at all....
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 06, 2018, 08:33:57 AM
When you're team goes 9 minutes of game time without a FG, I can understand why a coach would try something "bizzare" to get the offense going. And while not often used, it is pretty common for teams to have a "death" lineup of 5 smaller players.
It was the wrong call but I can understand the thought process behind it. Our guys needed to see the ball go though the hoop.
TAMU do you have access to a play by play that includes substitutions? I would like to see what our +/- was with that small line up.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 06, 2018, 09:02:03 AM
TAMU do you have access to a play by play that includes substitutions? I would like to see what our +/- was with that small line up.
I don't. But looking at the play by play I'm pretty sure the small ball lineup was somewhere between 9:12 to 4:33. 9:12 is the free throws from a foul on Heldt and 5:38 is the last stoppage of play before a Theo layup. I'm not sure if they were small the entire time, but we started that stretch at 59-51 and finished 68-59, so -1. If someone has a more specific breakdown of when the small ball lineup is that would be helpful. Though honestly, we traded baskets during that entire stretch so it would have never been worse than -3.
I'm very high on Theo, think he's our best center, and will start next year. My only problem with him is that he always seems to go for the block. When he gets it, its great, but if he doesn't it seems like we give up a lot of offensive rebounds. He need to learn when he can get a block and when he should just let someone go. This will come naturally with more games played. This is why I liked Otule so much. His blocks and rebounds numbers were never great, but if good box outs were a stat, he would have been stuffing the box score consistently.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 06, 2018, 09:22:50 AM
I don't. But looking at the play by play I'm pretty sure the small ball lineup was somewhere between 9:12 to 4:33. 9:12 is the free throws from a foul on Heldt and 5:38 is the last stoppage of play before a Theo layup. I'm not sure if they were small the entire time, but we started that stretch at 59-51 and finished 68-59, so -1. If someone has a more specific breakdown of when the small ball lineup is that would be helpful. Though honestly, we traded baskets during that entire stretch so it would have never been worse than -3.
Yeah, intuitively that is what I thought. I don't think the small line up was a success by any means, but it certainly wasn't the disaster that people are making it out to be.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 06, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
Yeah, intuitively that is what I thought. I don't think the small line up was a success by any means, but it certainly wasn't the disaster that people are making it out to be.
I don't think it was a disaster either, and won't rip Wojo for trying it.
Still, a couple points could have made the difference in a 2-point loss.
Quote from: LloydsLegs on February 06, 2018, 07:58:27 AM
I think you missed the "seriously". C'mon JJJJJ.
My apologies. Sarcasm meter and depth in which I read posts is deeply impaired when on my phone.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 06, 2018, 09:50:45 AM
My apologies. Sarcasm meter and depth in which I read posts is deeply impaired when on my phone.
And phone was why my effort at using teal failed.
Wojo has gone small with Sam at the 5 a number of times in the past season and 3/4. I have no problem with him trying to get our 5 best offensive players on the floor. We can't stop anyone even if we have our 5 best defensive players on the floor, so you might as well try lighting up the scoreboard. This team isn't going to survive 7+ minute field goal droughts. We're not built that way.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 06, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
Wojo has gone small with Sam at the 5 a number of times in the past season and 3/4. I have no problem with him trying to get our 5 best offensive players on the floor. We can't stop anyone even if we have our 5 best defensive players on the floor, so you might as well try lighting up the scoreboard. This team isn't going to survive 7+ minute field goal droughts. We're not built that way.
And yet...we almost did. Just need to get things clinking on that end again. Ball movement is key.