Sun came up (albiet with a banket of snow). The team is really,really young. Expectations may have been a little too high for this year, but I wouldn't trade next year's roster for anyone in the BE. There are still games to play this year, and next year looks really good.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on February 04, 2018, 11:19:20 AM
Sun came up (albiet with a banket of snow). The team is really,really young. Expectations may have been a little too high for this year, but I wouldn't trade next year's roster for anyone in the BE. There are still games to play this year, and next year looks really good.
Yup, next year we will be really good. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Frankie said it first.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2018, 11:46:15 AM
Yup, next year we will be really good. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Nobody said that about this year
They lost 3 valuable contributors from last year. If someone was expecting a top BE team this year, they were not rational. Having said that, for a rebuilding year, they are fun to watch.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on February 04, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
They lost 3 valuable contributors from last year. If someone was expecting a top BE team this year, they were not rational. Having said that, for a rebuilding year, they are fun to watch.
Actially it's 4. Luke, JJ, Katin and Duane. Each had their limitations, but they brought a lot to the table.
Luke, Katin, Duane, JjJ, Haanif. I count 5. Which means that on the current roster, there are 4 players who played on last year's team. One full time starter, 2 who started most of the time. One who started a few games. 5 who either played no D1 ball last year or played 1/2 season at another school. And somehow people are outraged they aren't perfect.
The BE preseason poll picked us seventh:
http://www.bigeast.com/news/2017/10/18/mens-basketball-villanova-sits-atop-coaches-preseason-poll-again.aspx
We are currently sitting in seventh.
Nobody was expecting us to be great this season. If we are sitting in seventh this time next season, that would be a surprise and a disappointment.
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 04, 2018, 01:26:09 PM
Actially it's 4. Luke, JJ, Katin and Duane. Each had their limitations, but they brought a lot to the table.
And that's not including Haani who played 25 mpg last year. Watching yesterday, I was wondering what it would have looked like had even 20 of Sacar's 35 minutes (and his defensive responsibilities) been allocated to Haanif. I like Sacar's growth curve and his scrappiness, but I think that experience alone might have been good for an extra +2.
I've said it before and I'll say it again- what are we rebuilding from? A one and done tourney team that barely snuck in? Which to he honest, was fortunate to play Nova when they couldn't throw a 3 in the ocean and that W got them in.
That's the disappointment to me. I expected more through 4 years with this regime. So next year they should be better, what do you consider a success next year? Just making the tourney?
Do we expect a 2nd weekend run next year or is that not a fair expectation? I think given the amount of money this program spends on the bball program, by year 5 of the coach's run we should be shooting for higher goals than getting back to the dance.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on February 04, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again- what are we rebuilding from? A one and done tourney team that barely snuck in? Which to he honest, was fortunate to play Nova when they couldn't throw a 3 in the ocean and that W got them in.
That's the disappointment to me. I expected more through 4 years with this regime. So next year they should be better, what do you consider a success next year? Just making the tourney?
This year, I would consider just making the tourney to be success. We still have a shot, but the last two games shows that we still have work to do.
Barring significant injuries,
next year I would consider Sweet Sixteen to be success.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on February 04, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again- what are we rebuilding from? A one and done tourney team that barely snuck in? Which to he honest, was fortunate to play Nova when they couldn't throw a 3 in the ocean and that W got them in.
That's the disappointment to me. I expected more through 4 years with this regime. So next year they should be better, what do you consider a success next year? Just making the tourney?
Do we expect a 2nd weekend run next year or is that not a fair expectation? I think given the amount of money this program spends on the bball program, by year 5 of the coach's run we should be shooting for higher goals than getting back to the dance.
My personal opinion is that NCAA tourney success is pretty random. So setting the expectations based on that is not fair to players, coach or program. I'd say something that is more identifiable over the long term. Say above a certain finish in the conference
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2018, 01:49:26 PM
My personal opinion is that NCAA tourney success is pretty random. So setting the expectations based on that is not fair to players, coach or program. I'd say something that is more identifiable over the long term. Say above a certain finish in the conference
How about top half? Are your expectations that MU would finish in the top half of the conference? Say, once every 4 years?
Quote from: connie on February 04, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
How about top half? Are your expectations that MU would finish in the top half of the conference? Say, once every 4 years?
During a rebuild? Or when a coach has been able to fill out his roster completely?
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2018, 02:08:36 PM
During a rebuild? Or when a coach has been able to fill out his roster completely?
That's what's really at the heart of the dispute isn't it? I think your point about looking to conference finish is fine. I think top half once in four years is a pretty low bar for a program that wants to be top tier (or even second tier ;)). Hopefully a five year rebuild will get us to that rarified air.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2018, 02:08:36 PM
During a rebuild? Or when a coach has been able to fill out his roster completely?
To your point - current BEast standings by coach tenure (incl current year):
1. 17 years
2. 9 years
3. 8 years
4. 1 year
5. 9 years
6. 7 years
7. 4 years (Wojo)
8. 1 year
9. 3 years
10. 3 years
Jay Wright was 19-13, 15-16, and 18-17 in his first 3 years at Villanova. I'm sure the Nova fans and administration are kicking themselves over allowing such a storied program to sit around in mediocrity while they could've gone out and got themselves a coach who could actually live up to their expectations. Think about how much better off they would've been if they went and found someone who could handle the pressure of coaching at a high major level.
I want to win as much as anyone. But the table is being set, hor d'oveuvre's are being served and hopefully the main course will be worth the wait. If not, the waitress doesn't get a tip
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2018, 02:47:36 PM
Jay Wright was 19-13, 15-16, and 18-17 in his first 3 years at Villanova. I'm sure the Nova fans and administration are kicking themselves over allowing such a storied program to sit around in mediocrity while they could've gone out and got themselves a coach who could actually live up to their expectations. Think about how much better off they would've been if they went and found someone who could handle the pressure of coaching at a high major level.
So that means Wojo is Jay Wright? Got it, I'll start planning on my National Title game trip.
I'm sure there's quite a list of coaches who went about .500 in each of their first 3 seasons and never really improved after that, before eventually getting fired.
It hasn't gotten much attention, but this MU team is very young.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on February 04, 2018, 02:52:42 PM
So that means Wojo is Jay Wright? Got it, I'll start planning on my National Title game trip.
I'm sure there's quite a list of coaches who went about .500 in each of their first 3 seasons and never really improved after that, before eventually getting fired.
No, it means people who have come to the conclusion that Wojo can't handle the pressure of coaching high major basketball are jumping the gun
just a bit.
News flash, people get better at things the more time they spend doing them. I'm better at my job now than I was 4 years ago. So is Wojo.
2018- 2019 is the year circled on my calendar.
A one-and-done NCAA tournament and Wojo deserves more time.
A decent run in the NCAAs and Wojo deserves an apology from me for doubting him (I have some nice stationary somewhere).
The NIT or no bid . . . Who's available?
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on February 04, 2018, 02:52:42 PM
So that means Wojo is Jay Wright? Got it, I'll start planning on my National Title game trip.
I'm sure there's quite a list of coaches who went about .500 in each of their first 3 seasons and never really improved after that, before eventually getting fired.
Ya don't have to live up to your name man! We've got some good young talent to put together here. I do believe wojo should hire a defensive guru-not dom capers either
Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 04, 2018, 03:07:52 PM
Ya don't have to live up to your name man! We've got some good young talent to put together here. I do believe wojo should hire a defensive guru-not dom capers either
This I agree with completely.
Wojo's staff is so young. Keep Stan, keep Nelson, I know he's a Dookie but maybe part ways with Carawell for someone like a Wainwright or another old vet.
Progress is not always a straight line. There will be some premature peeks, and some tough lows, but if you look at the process in larger increments, the trajectory is favorable. After this year, there will be a baseline of top half finishes in BE, with consistent NCAA bids.
I just want the team to make the tournament this year. I dont care about seeds. Even beginning of the year, season goal was just make the tournament.
Quote from: connie on February 04, 2018, 02:17:52 PM
That's what's really at the heart of the dispute isn't it? I think your point about looking to conference finish is fine. I think top half once in four years is a pretty low bar for a program that wants to be top tier (or even second tier ;)). Hopefully a five year rebuild will get us to that rarified air.
Well, I mean, is there not a period of time necessary to rebuild a program under a new coach? One that wasn't on the staff or part of the tree or even ever a part of the university?
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 04, 2018, 02:41:41 PM
To your point - current BEast standings by coach tenure (incl current year):
1. 17 years
2. 9 years
3. 8 years
4. 1 year
5. 9 years
6. 7 years
7. 4 years (Wojo)
8. 1 year
9. 3 years
10. 3 years
Yes. Now, take those first year coaches and watch them over the next couple years to see where they finish. That'll give you an idea if it was because of the current coach or the previous coach's players.
In the context of your list, Wojo is behind only coaches who have been at their programs for 7+ years. 7 years to build a program/culture/development/scheme/etc. Also behind Butler's first year coach with already-in-the-system players with experience
Quote from: warriorfred on February 04, 2018, 02:59:06 PM
2018- 2019 is the year circled on my calendar.
Same here. Until then, I give him a mulligan barring a scandal or something
really embarrassing...like getting swept by DePaul. ;)
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2018, 02:47:36 PM
Jay Wright was 19-13, 15-16, and 18-17 in his first 3 years at Villanova. I'm sure the Nova fans and administration are kicking themselves over allowing such a storied program to sit around in mediocrity while they could've gone out and got themselves a coach who could actually live up to their expectations. Think about how much better off they would've been if they went and found someone who could handle the pressure of coaching at a high major level.
Oh yes. We get it. Wojo is better than Jay Wright
Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2018, 08:31:03 PM
Oh yes. We get it. Wojo is better than Jay Wright
Who said that?