I know nobody whats to hear it but the truth is this team is very young.Games like that are going to happen.We have seen it before with previous teams.With that said MU needs to get old and stay old.Can not have players transfer like in the Junior class.Hopefully we are on our way there.It would be nice to recruit a couple of junk yard dogs though.
The real issue is the type of player Wojo has recruited. Yesterday was a total mismatch down low, the 3 centers are just not that good defensively. Sure Theo
can make a play or two, but give him a ball fake and he is going to foul. The other 2 are just not that good. Froling has bad footwork on D, Matt a little better.
Forwards are a little better but at times Sam is just out of place, he is OK on the offensive end, but defensively he is a liability. Then add the 2 pigmys and a good
guard has a field day. Bring in 2 skinny runts off the bench and you have no toughness. Morrow is a start, but need more.
Not sure what Joey will bring on the D end. Is he quicker than Sam? Taller yes, but not sure where he fits. Ike might be the difference maker as he is very long. Not
sure what he brings either? But before we start saying the team will be better next year, there will have to be toughness put into every player. Yes, the league will
not be as good as this year, but you never know.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 01, 2018, 07:43:48 AM
I know nobody whats to hear it but the truth is this team is very young.Games like that are going to happen.We have seen it before with previous teams.With that said MU needs to get old and stay old.Can not have players transfer like in the Junior class.Hopefully we are on our way there.It would be nice to recruit a couple of junk yard dogs though.
The problem last night wasn't because our guys are young. If anything, the only decent performances last night came from our young guys. Markus and Sacar both had pretty good games, Greg did a decent job and logged a ton of minutes. Sam wasn't great, but he at least went at the hoop more than usual. The biggest disappointment last night was our senior.
I think last night's problem was more our young coach than anything else. There was no gameplan in place to slow Wideman down. When Rowsey came out cold, we had issues running an offense for Sam. Even when we went small, we did a poor job of pressuring the ball. All those things fall on the coaching staff.
Our biggest weakness is DUDES-Big Physical DUDES that man handle our bigs down low-See it with X, See it with Butler-Our bigs are not mean enough to stand up to getting bullied by physical Big men. Heldt especially
why in year four is the makeup of the team YOUNG again? plus there's a ton of young teams across the country that are much better. i'm so sick of this EXCUSE.
Quote from: Al Davis on February 01, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
why in year four is the makeup of the team YOUNG again? plus there's a ton of young teams across the country that are much better. i'm so sick of this EXCUSE.
So fun fact...Wojo is in his 4th year so the GUYS he recruited straight out of HS would be seniors at best right now....Not sure why theres this idea that the team would be OLD and staying OLD right now when we had an entire class basically leave when Buzz peaced and then had to go the transfer route for a bit....Having guys for 1 years/1 or 2 years is not the program needed to be OLD and stay OLD...
Now next year....And literally this is just NEXT year so the people saying this is going to be an ongoing excuse just need to pay more attention-We will have an older team that will stay old into the year beyond. How/Why anyone expected Wojo to be able to balance out classes and keep us old in under 4 years with what he inherited is absolutely beyond me....
The Buzz lovers will always do their thing, but seriously if the transfers like Kaitin, Carlino, Rowsey never happened I can't imagine what the record for this team would have been in some of these last few years. While acheiving 2 decent years in a row Wojo has also been balancing out the classes. and FWIW Lunardi has us in today...so keep playing the violin I will just watch the basketball games
Wojo won't spend a scholarship just to have a body. He doesn't recruit JUCO's so doesn't have ready made upperclassmen. So when Traci, Duane, Haanif, and Sandy transfer, there isn't an instant replacement ready to go. Which leads to a roster of
9 Scholarship players
1 5'10 senior.
1 Program, non-impact Junior big
4 sophomores, one a red-shirt, one who has only played as many games as a typical freshman.
3 outside-the-top-100 freshman, two of whom may be the skinniest players for their height in D-1.
It is at least partially on Wojo and his recruiting style that this year's roster is so young and inexperienced.
But I honestly cannot think of a coach that could have turned this roster into a top 25 team. Too young. Two <6' starting guards, neither of whom is a great defender.
And so, geniuses of the board, let me put the challenge to you. With how this roster is composed, describe how you would turn it into a top 25 team.
Quote from: tower912 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
And so, geniuses of the board, let me put the challenge to you. With how this roster is composed, describe how you would turn it into a top 25 team.
You can't. The problem is the roster. And that's on Wojo don't get me wrong. But we need more length, more bulk and the ability to drive into the lane. We need more classes like Cain, Elliott and John.
Quote from: tower912 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
Wojo won't spend a scholarship just to have a body. He doesn't recruit JUCO's so doesn't have ready made upperclassmen. So when Traci, Duane, Haanif, and Sandy transfer, there isn't an instant replacement ready to go. Which leads to a roster of
9 Scholarship players
1 5'10 senior.
1 Program, non-impact Junior big
4 sophomores, one a red-shirt, one who has only played as many games as a typical freshman.
3 outside-the-top-100 freshman, two of whom may be the skinniest players for their height in D-1.
It is at least partially on Wojo and his recruiting style that this year's roster is so young and inexperienced.
But I honestly cannot think of a coach that could have turned this roster into a top 25 team. Too young. Two <6' starting guards, neither of whom is a great defender.
And so, geniuses of the board, let me put the challenge to you. With how this roster is composed, describe how you would turn it into a top 25 team.
The geniuses want MU to be old and stay old-Can we do that by having JUCO upperclassmen or by having 4 year guys come in and stay in? Transfer culture to me makes it difficult to do without grad transfers/JUCOs-We can pretty much bank on at least 1 transfer this offseason and hopefully the player brought in with the open spot is a PG over 5 11
This is why I don't think a grad transfer point guard is the right move this off season. We only have one scholly to give and a grad transfer is a short term fix, we would be in even more trouble the following year. This is where missing on QG hurts, because that scholly isn't likely to go to a high schooler now, with the lack of uncommitted talent. Ride Markus and Greg next year while a traditional transfer sits out then bring in a four year player the following year.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 01, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
This is why I don't think a grad transfer point guard is the right move this off season. We only have one scholly to give and a grad transfer is a short term fix, we would be in even more trouble the following year. This is where missing on QG hurts, because that scholly isn't likely to go to a high schooler now, with the lack of uncommitted talent. Ride Markus and Greg next year while a traditional transfer sits out then bring in a four year player the following year.
I have seen enough from Elliot to be comfortable with the idea that he can start at the point last year. So if Wojo uses the last scholarship on a 2018 PG or combo guard, I am ok withthat.
Quote from: tower912 on February 01, 2018, 10:37:01 AM
I have seen enough from Elliot to be comfortable with the idea that he can start at the point last year. So if Wojo uses the last scholarship on a 2018 PG or combo guard, I am ok withthat.
You also haven't seen an Elliott with two healthy hands. Just saying with the experience that we should have next year, a short term fix at point would only lead to bigger problems in the 19-20 season.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 01, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
This is why I don't think a grad transfer point guard is the right move this off season. We only have one scholly to give and a grad transfer is a short term fix, we would be in even more trouble the following year. This is where missing on QG hurts, because that scholly isn't likely to go to a high schooler now, with the lack of uncommitted talent. Ride Markus and Greg next year while a traditional transfer sits out then bring in a four year player the following year.
I see what you are saying and that could be a good plan b. But assuming no disasters, next year's roster is built to win. Nova will be the number 1 team again (unless all three of their pro prospects go) but there is a huge power vacuum behind them at #2. If Wojo thinks the one thing that is missing is a point guard, then he will get a grad transfer PG.
We are in on some top PGs in the 2019 class. I'm really hoping for DJ Carton. He's the kind of kid who could be a quality backup from day 1 and could even see him playing alongside Markus as a freshman. I think if you get a grad transfer this year, a freshman in 2019, and another freshman in 2020 we will be okay at the PG position.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 01, 2018, 10:38:51 AM
You also haven't seen an Elliott with two healthy hands. Just saying with the experience that we should have next year, a short term fix at point would only lead to bigger problems in the 19-20 season.
Agreed. But TAMU isn't wrong. If Wojo knows he is going to land a top notch '19 PG, a one-year rental that pushes MU to the top isn't the worst plan. A fine line.
Quote from: tower912 on February 01, 2018, 10:43:36 AM
Agreed. But TAMU isn't wrong. If Wojo knows he is going to land a top notch '19 PG, a one-year rental that pushes MU to the top isn't the worst plan. A fine line.
I don't know where we stand with Carton, but even if he comes, I would be extremely nervous every time Markus would hit the floor that year, because as good as Carton is, I'm would't feel comfortable with his driving the bus. Wojo has had a tendency of taking the best possible players, so if you can get a high quality grad transfer, take him, but that would majorly rolling the dice on both getting Carton, and Markus staying healthy.
Buzz wasn't wrong when he said that you should have a PG in every class. By far the most important position in the college game.
Quote from: DCHoopster on February 01, 2018, 08:36:58 AM
Sure Theo can make a play or two, but give him a ball fake and he is going to foul. The other 2 are just not that good.
Theo is a frosh, Wideman is a senior.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 01, 2018, 10:56:22 AM
Theo is a frosh, Wideman is a senior.
I agree, I hope Theo can be as good as Wideman 3 years from now, but Wideman has his way yesterday.
If we add a grad transfer PG or combo guard he needs to have some size. We need to avoid a scenario where two guys that are 5'10 - 5'11 need to play major minutes together. That will kill us on the defensive end again.
Morrow is going to be a huge addition from a rebounding and defensive perspective.
If Greg and Jamal can each put on 15 lbs of muscle that will help tremendously in regards to rebounding and defense. They have the length, athleticism, and desire.
Sam is solid and fundamentally sound for the most part, despite not being very athletic.
Theo has already improved quite a bit in terms of defending without fouling. I expect good things from him. Sacar is also solid.
However, I wouldn't object if Wojo added a more experienced assistant coach with more expertise on the defensive side of the ball. Doubt that will happen, though.
I think the pieces are there for a solid defensive team next season and I still have very high expectations for the 18-19 season.
Definitely agree about defense being a must in any grad transfer candidates. I don't want a guy who can score a lot of buckets. I want a guy who can lockdown most anybody on the perimeter and makes his teammates better on offense. If he can also score a lot of buckets too, all the better.
Quote from: DCHoopster on February 01, 2018, 11:01:23 AM
I agree, I hope Theo can be as good as Wideman 3 years from now, but Wideman has his way yesterday.
At this point it certainly seems a reasonable comparison. Wideman was averaging about 9 point per game before we let him go off last night, that doesn't seem like a crazy progression for Theo. He has already improved his defense and stopped fouling as frequently and has the size and agility to get better.
His offense has been weird in that sometimes he shows a very nice touch and at others tosses up a brick that would be embarrassing in an intramural game at the Rec Center. I think he does need to improve his rebounding %, but it may be low due to him always going for the block.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 01, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Definitely agree about defense being a must in any grad transfer candidates. I don't want a guy who can score a lot of buckets. I want a guy who can lockdown most anybody on the perimeter and makes his teammates better on offense. If he can also score a lot of buckets too, all the better.
Give me a Trent Lockett 2.0, and I take him in a heartbeat
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 01, 2018, 11:08:24 AM
Give me a Trent Lockett 2.0, and I take him in a heartbeat
YES. Trent Lockett is probably the most under-appreciated player in the last ten years of Marquette basketball. Dude did everything except score, so the fan base roasted him at first. Turns out he was probably the glue that held that elite 8 team together.
Quote from: tower912 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
And so, geniuses of the board, let me put the challenge to you. With how this roster is composed, describe how you would turn it into a top 25 team.
The problem with blaming bad games on roster construction is that we have games where we play like a top 25 team. We played Nova tight for 40 minutes, blew out a very good Seton Hall team, beat a good (but sliding) Providence team on the road, and we played top 10 X to within a bucket or two.
If we're capable of competing in these kinds of games, I think it shows that this year's team could be a top 25 team if they were more consistent. I think part of the lack of consistency comes relying on younger guys, but I think the biggest part comes from coaching. There are too many games where we are surprised out of the gates and don't figure out how to slow our opponent down mid-game. And the continually porous defense under Wojo, regardless of roster, is telling as well.
For me, the bigger question is - Can Wojo become a top 25 coach?
I've said this before but the Ellenson signings ended up hurting MU. Don't get me wrong, if a McD AA wants to sign at your school, you absolutely take him. However, Wally's spot was more or less a wasted scholarship and even with Henry, MU finished below .500 in the BE, didn't go to the postseason and had to replace him the next season.
If instead of the Ellensons, MU signed two incoming frosh, this year's team would (in theory) have a senior and a junior on the roster. I recognize that means that 2 current players would be elsewhere and maybe the "replacement Ellensons" wouldn't be players, etc. I guess my point is that if people want to know why this team seems to always be young and inexperienced, the Ellensons were a major contributor to that.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 01, 2018, 11:28:45 AM
The problem with blaming bad games on roster construction is that we have games where we play like a top 25 team. We played Nova tight for 40 minutes, blew out a very good Seton Hall team, beat a good (but sliding) Providence team on the road, and we played top 10 X to within a bucket or two.
If we're capable of competing in these kinds of games, I think it shows that this year's team could be a top 25 team if they were more consistent. I think part of the lack of consistency comes relying on younger guys, but I think the biggest part comes from coaching. There are too many games where we are surprised out of the gates and don't figure out how to slow our opponent down mid-game. And the continually porous defense under Wojo, regardless of roster, is telling as well.
For me, the bigger question is - Can Wojo become a top 25 coach?
0-8 against KenPom top 25
13-1 outside KenPom top 25
That's pretty consistent. We're a bubble quality team who consistently loses to teams better than us and consistently beats teams worse than us. Could another coach have us doing better? Definitely. Could another coach have us doing worse? Definitely! I would guess the 2nd list is longer than the 1st one.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 01, 2018, 11:45:38 AM
That's pretty consistent. We're a bubble quality team who consistently loses to teams better than us and consistently beats teams worse than us. Could another coach have us doing better? Definitely. Could another coach have us doing worse? Definitely! I would guess the 2nd list is longer than the 1st one.
You're probably right. But when we get so close in some really big game, it's hard not to think that a little bit better gameplan could have pushed us over the edge. Then again, it's probably fair to say that we were only in the game because of the good plan and that we were nearing our ceiling. Ifs and buts...
Quote from: skianth16 on February 01, 2018, 09:39:54 AM
The problem last night wasn't because our guys are young. If anything, the only decent performances last night came from our young guys. Markus and Sacar both had pretty good games, Greg did a decent job and logged a ton of minutes. Sam wasn't great, but he at least went at the hoop more than usual. The biggest disappointment last night was our senior.
I think last night's problem was more our young coach than anything else. There was no gameplan in place to slow Wideman down. When Rowsey came out cold, we had issues running an offense for Sam. Even when we went small, we did a poor job of pressuring the ball. All those things fall on the coaching staff.
Don't give Wojo an out as being a "young" coach. Butler's coach has one prior year of HC experience at UWM, and his team came out ready to play.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 01, 2018, 12:00:03 PM
Don't give Wojo an out as being a "young" coach. Butler's coach has one prior year of HC experience at UWM, and his team came out ready to play.
Fair. I wasn't really trying to give him an out, because I fully agree that he's been around long enough that he should be more consistent than he's been. I do think it takes much longer to become a mature coach than player, but I still think that based on his resume, we should expect a lot from him.
Other than Duke,Kentucky and maybe Michigan St. does any team play as well as MU that 7 out of there top 8 players are Fr. and So.
We still should be showing improvement on D as the year goes by. No consistency at all!!