As you prepare your next round of kvetching for Saturday, keep in mind these two things. Marquette is the youngest team in the Big East. Marquette is the smallest team in the Big East. Butler and SJU are both young. MU is younger. 3 frosh, 4 sophs, 1 junior, 1 senior.
MU has 3 great shooters. Both are <6'. One is a 6'7 PF.
Our freshmen have length. Two are rail-thin.
There are going to be defensive issues. There is going to be inconsistency. There is talent. There has been growth so far. The team will go as far as the 3 shooters take them.
Excuses!
Save your breath, Tower. You always put out these reality checks and Scoop still goes off the rails when we're down to the #3 team in the country at their house. There will either be euphoria, or a reason to celebrate maintenance for a couple days while the board cools off.
Go Warriors!
It don't matta. Gotta strap it on from da get go, ai na?
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on January 05, 2018, 08:55:11 PM
goes off the rails when we're down to the #3 team in the country at their house.
I mean, when they were #1 I would have been worried. Now they're clearly 200% worse.
If you look at experience vs Kenpom overall rank - it no matta
Is marquette really the smallest with 3 6'10 guys?
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on January 05, 2018, 09:05:12 PM
Is marquette really the smallest with 3 6'10 guys?
That's balanced out by our 3 5'8" guys (including Cam).
We got this.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
As you prepare your next round of kvetching for Saturday, keep in mind these two things. Marquette is the youngest team in the Big East. Marquette is the smallest team in the Big East. Butler and SJU are both young. MU is younger. 3 frosh, 4 sophs, 1 junior, 1 senior.
MU has 3 great shooters. Both are <6'. One is a 6'7 PF.
Our freshmen have length. Two are rail-thin.
There are going to be defensive issues. There is going to be inconsistency. There is talent. There has been growth so far. The team will go as far as the 3 shooters take them.
Since Eke will be a frosh next year, can we count him as HS senior now?
Quote from: 4everCrean on January 06, 2018, 12:06:00 AM
Since Eke will be a frosh next year, can we count him as HS senior now?
That is why MU needs a combo guard grad that is 6'4" to 6'5" so at the end of games next year MU can play big, really big. With that potential player and Elliott,
Anim MU will be able to handle big teams, as upfront as we know will be big. My question to you all, was Markus's 52 point game, the most important game for
high school kids to here about, and amazing stat to show top players what they can do at MU? I believe that was a breakout game for Wojo. Time will tell. But is
that more important then averaging 10 points at Kentucky?
You mean to tell me all of our issues aren't due to Wojo's huddles?!?!
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
As you prepare your next round of kvetching for Saturday, keep in mind these two things. Marquette is the youngest team in the Big East. Marquette is the smallest team in the Big East. Butler and SJU are both young. MU is younger. 3 frosh, 4 sophs, 1 junior, 1 senior.
MU has 3 great shooters. Both are <6'. One is a 6'7 PF.
Our freshmen have length. Two are rail-thin.
There are going to be defensive issues. There is going to be inconsistency. There is talent. There has been growth so far. The team will go as far as the 3 shooters take them.
Marquette is not the smallest team. Sam is 6'8". Matt, Theo and Harry average 6'10". This is a big team with great shooters.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 06, 2018, 07:25:36 AM
Marquette is not the smallest team. Sam is 6'8". Matt, Theo and Harry average 6'10". This is a big team with great shooters.
MU is 224th the nation for height.
Quote from: PTM on January 06, 2018, 09:21:23 AM
MU is 224th the nation for height.
I thought height didn't matter.... ;)
Quote from: PTM on January 06, 2018, 09:21:23 AM
MU is 224th the nation for height.
And how many big east teams are shorter?
Quote from: PTM on January 06, 2018, 09:21:23 AM
MU is 224th the nation for height.
.
MU is 86th tallest at the center position, 66th at PF and 102 at shooting forward. While "average" height is 224, "effective height" is 69th.
#scoopmythbusters
As a footnote, the Midgets were at 74'7" or 341th in "average height" and 308th in "effective height". Also, 55th in defense and 21st in offense.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on January 06, 2018, 01:36:19 AM
You mean to tell me all of our issues aren't due to Wojo's ?huddles cuddles!?!
FIFY
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on January 05, 2018, 08:55:11 PM
Save your breath, Tower. You always put out these reality checks and Scoop still goes off the rails when we're down to the #3 team in the country at their house. There will either be euphoria, or a reason to celebrate maintenance for a couple days while the board cools off.
Go Warriors!
Here's a reality check for ya - the height issue is due to recruiting and to a lesser extent due to players leaving. It's not just a coincidence. It's not like Wojo and Co. just throw a bunch of names in a hat and draw 3 or 4 each year when recruiting.
Being frustrated with a middling team and coach going through growing pains is normal for fans who are used to watching a highly competitive program. There are reasons to be excited for the future, but there are also reasons to be frustrated with the product we have on the floor right now.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 06, 2018, 08:04:19 PM
Here's a reality check for ya - the height issue is due to recruiting and to a lesser extent due to players leaving. It's not just a coincidence. It's not like Wojo and Co. just throw a bunch of names in a hat and draw 3 or 4 each year when recruiting.
Being frustrated with a middling team and coach going through growing pains is normal for fans who are used to watching a highly competitive program. There are reasons to be excited for the future, but there are also reasons to be frustrated with the product we have on the floor right now.
I completely agree with this.
I see it as a fact to contemplate. I didn't realize it was an accusation.
donut in the middle,why is hf shooting threes, he needs to rebound and play d first
Bump. The announcing crew kept repeating that MU was the youngest team in the Big East. And no one has shown they are NOT the shortest. Observation. Fact. Excuse. Reason to blame Wojo. All depends on your perspective.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
As you prepare your next round of kvetching for Saturday, keep in mind these two things. Marquette is the youngest team in the Big East. Marquette is the smallest team in the Big East. Butler and SJU are both young. MU is younger. 3 frosh, 4 sophs, 1 junior, 1 senior.
MU has 3 great shooters. Both are <6'. One is a 6'7 PF.
Our freshmen have length. Two are rail-thin.
There are going to be defensive issues. There is going to be inconsistency. There is talent. There has been growth so far. The team will go as far as the 3 shooters take them.
Excuses, excuses
They are all Wojos players, getting outplayed by Butlers mid major players. Of course the fall back position is "there is neXT year, when we will be awesome."
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 06:00:28 AM
Excuses, excuses
They are all Wojos players, getting outplayed by Butlers mid major players. Of course the fall back position is "there is neXT year, when we will be awesome."
What were your expectations for this year? Mine was NIT.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 06:00:28 AM
Excuses, excuses
They are all Wojos players, getting outplayed by Butlers mid major players. Of course the fall back position is "there is neXT year, when we will be awesome."
It is good to have you active again, WW. And good to know it wasn't just a buzz obsession. And good to know your perspective remains the same.
Quote from: Wojos Blueprint on January 06, 2018, 09:15:53 PM
donut in the middle,why is hf shooting threes, he needs to rebound and play d first
He is suppose to be a good three point shooter. He made a three on his first shot, but has probably missed a dozen threes since then. They generally have been wide open threes. At some point they are going to start dropping.
Quote from: bilsu on January 13, 2018, 09:19:06 AM
He is suppose to be a good three point shooter. He made a three on his first shot, but has probably missed a dozen threes since then. They generally have been wide open threes. At some point they are going to start dropping.
I think Harry is 2 for 12 from 3. Vs Butler was 1 of 2.
Quote from: Daniel on January 13, 2018, 09:34:26 AM
I think Harry is 2 for 12 from 3. Vs Butler was 1 of 2.
Harry is 1-12 from three for the season and was 0-1 against Butler.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 06:00:28 AM
Excuses, excuses
They are all Wojos players, getting outplayed by Butlers mid major players. Of course the fall back position is "there is neXT year, when we will be awesome."
How do you figure Butler's players are mid-majors? They've been recruiting to the Big East longer than Wojo has.
Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2018, 07:01:41 AM
It is good to have you active again, WW. And good to know it wasn't just a buzloQuote from: source? on January 13, 2018, 12:50:49 PM
How do you figure Butler's players are mid-majors? They've been recruiting to the Big East longer than Wojo has.
Quote from: source? on January 13, 2018, 12:50:49 PM
How do you figure Butler's players are mid-majors? They've been recruiting to the Big East longer than Wojo has.
z obsession. And good to know your perspective remains the same.
So that is the new excuse now. Butler recruiting longer than wojo? When the new BEAST was being formed, several on this board argued that Creighton and Butler were mid majors. Both are out performing MU. Wojo with his pedigree should be doing much better. He is not.
Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2018, 07:01:41 AM
It is good to have you active again, WW. And good to know it wasn't just a buzz obsession. And good to know your perspective remains the same.
I call it as I see it. Wojo's pedigree should be performing at a much higher level. He can recruit, but middle of the pack BEAST is Mediocrity IMO.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 12:59:22 PM
z obsession. And good to know your perspective remains the same.
So that is the new excuse now. Butler recruiting longer than wojo? When the new BEAST was being formed, several on this board argued that Creighton and Butler were mid majors. Both are out performing MU. Wojo with his pedigree should be doing much better. He is not.
You are making up arguments again.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 06:00:28 AM
Excuses, excuses
They are all Wojos players, getting outplayed by Butlers mid major players. Of course the fall back position is "there is neXT year, when we will be awesome."
I think we're awesome this year. I also think we'll be more awesome next year. Losing at Butler is not a bad loss.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 12:59:22 PM
z obsession. And good to know your perspective remains the same.
So that is the new excuse now. Butler recruiting longer than wojo? When the new BEAST was being formed, several on this board argued that Creighton and Butler were mid majors. Both are out performing MU. Wojo with his pedigree should be doing much better. He is not.
No excuses, Wojo is a good coach with a great eye for talent and I've been an avid supporter from day 1. I think he is doing a great job of building the program and believe we are right where we should be at this point. However, calling a Butler team's players, in their 5th year in a power conference, mid-majors is akin to calling the 2010-11 sweet 16 MU team mid-majors. It is either ignorance or you are being intentionally obtuse.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 13, 2018, 06:00:28 AM
Excuses, excuses
They are all Wojos players, getting outplayed by Butlers mid major players. Of course the fall back position is "there is neXT year, when we will be awesome."
Butler's "mid-major players" also outplayed Villanova's. Excuses, excuses from Jay Wright, I'm sure.
Quote from: source? on January 13, 2018, 10:02:47 PM
No excuses, Wojo is a good coach with a great eye for talent and I've been an avid supporter from day 1. I think he is doing a great job of building the program and believe we are right where we should be at this point. However, calling a Butler team's players, in their 5th year in a power conference, mid-majors is akin to calling the 2010-11 sweet 16 MU team mid-majors. It is either ignorance or you are being intentionally obtuse.
Neither. Perhaps you should read better. What I said was a number of people on this board called Butler and Creighton mid majors when discussing what teams should be taken into the reformed Beast. Butler is a good program which seems to outplay MU quite a bit. They do not recruit as good of talent as MU, but continue to beat us. Same with Creighton. Some posters fail to see that. If we have better talent, better resources, "better coaching", then we should be beating these guys more frequently. We are now in Wojo's fourth year, with all his players, middle of the pack BEast is not something that should be accepted, yet here we are. Sorry you have mis-understood the point. Just a guess, but I would suppose that most of us on this board, believe that MU's program is superior to Butler or Creighton, but likely we are fooling ourselves.
When butler actually was full of mid major players they beat us. Rotnei clark anyone? Maybe tone back the psycho babble and have some perspective that it?s a good program
Quote from: willie warrior on January 14, 2018, 09:01:09 AM
Neither. Perhaps you should read better. What I said was a number of people on this board called Butler and Creighton mid majors when discussing what teams should be taken into the reformed Beast. Butler is a good program which seems to outplay MU quite a bit. They do not recruit as good of talent as MU, but continue to beat us. Same with Creighton. Some posters fail to see that. If we have better talent, better resources, "better coaching", then we should be beating these guys more frequently. We are now in Wojo's fourth year, with all his players, middle of the pack BEast is not something that should be accepted, yet here we are. Sorry you have mis-understood the point. Just a guess, but I would suppose that most of us on this board, believe that MU's program is superior to Butler or Creighton, but likely we are fooling ourselves.
Butler I'll give you. They are consistent. But Creighton? Since Doug McDermott graduated, we are 4-2 against them.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on January 14, 2018, 09:02:18 AM
When butler actually was full of mid major players they beat us. Rotnei clark anyone? Maybe tone back the psycho babble and have some perspective that it?s a good program
Since hiring Barry Collier in 1989, they have had a number of coaches, but all of them served as an assistant at some point. They have a model that a lot of programs should aspire to. It would be nice if Marquette could build something like that eventually.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 13, 2018, 06:25:20 PM
I think we're awesome this year. I also think we'll be more awesome next year. Losing at Butler is not a bad loss.
How does a single good win make MU awesome?
Have the expectations for Wojo fallen that far?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on January 14, 2018, 09:02:18 AM
When butler actually was full of mid major players they beat us. Rotnei clark anyone? Maybe tone back the psycho babble and have some perspective that it?s a good program
Rotnei beat us in a basically meaningless preseason tournament. We beat him to advance to the Sweet 16. And they were good that year - maybe better than they are this year.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2018, 09:51:32 AM
Rotnei beat us in a basically meaningless preseason tournament. We beat him to advance to the Sweet 16. And they were good that year - maybe better than they are this year.
But that was the lonesome cowboy, so Willie doesn't acknowledge it.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
As you prepare your next round of kvetching for Saturday, keep in mind these two things. Marquette is the youngest team in the Big East. Marquette is the smallest team in the Big East.
To whom do we attribute this fact? Since this is year 4 of the Wojo regime do we assume this was his plan? If not, what went awry? Or shouldn't we "kvetch" about that?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2018, 09:58:04 AM
To whom do we attribute this fact? Since this is year 4 of the Wojo regime do we assume this was his plan? If not, what went awry? Or shouldn't we "kvetch" about that?
No this wasn?t the ideal plan. Ideally Haanif and Traci would have been better and stuck around. But they didn?t.
Quote from: #bansultan on January 14, 2018, 10:15:18 AM
No this wasn?t the ideal plan. Ideally Haanif and Traci would have been better and stuck around. But they didn?t.
The loss of Haanif, big picture for the program, was good. Paved the way for more PT for our talented freshman (Cain and Elliott), and freed up a scholarship.
Traci Carter still stings. In an idea scenario the coaching staff would have been able to sell him on staying, and red shirting THIS YEAR. For Traci that would have allowed him to not give up the half season of eligibility last year, he gave up, by transferring. Ultimately he's taking this whole year off at LaSalle any way. He would have improved tremendously going up against Markus and Rowsey at practice all year. Next year Rowsey is gone. Plug in Traci with Markus and we are off.
We would then have Traci as a Junior next year. Put him on that team with Morrow and now you have two very physical players who are plus defenders.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2018, 09:58:04 AM
To whom do we attribute this fact? Since this is year 4 of the Wojo regime do we assume this was his plan? If not, what went awry? Or shouldn't we "kvetch" about that?
It is scoop, kvetch all you want. Were Duane, Traci, and Haanif supposed to be here? Did Henry affect the decisions of other recruits? JUCO's?
Wojo has a plan. He is following it. Unlike Buzz, he doesn't seem to have an instant plan B when someone leaves or when missing on a recruit. So, ultimately, Wojo is responsible for not replacing Duane and Traci. I am curious how the presence of Markus and Rowsey affected the choices of 2017 recruits.
Quote from: tower912 on January 14, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
It is scoop, kvetch all you want. Were Duane, Traci, and Haanif supposed to be here? Did Henry affect the decisions of other recruits? JUCO's?
Wojo has a plan. He is following it. Unlike Buzz, he doesn't seem to have an instant plan B when someone leaves or when missing on a recruit. So, ultimately, Wojo is responsible for not replacing Duane and Traci. I am curious how the presence of Markus and Rowsey affected the choices of 2017 recruits.
First of all, as has been pointed out incessantly here, transfers are a reality that every D1 coach faces. Saying that Wojo "has a plan" but it doesn't include having a contingency plan for the inevitable means the plan is flawed.
Secondly, if Traci, Duane and Haanif were still here we would be older but not much taller or better.
We agree on that part of the plan being flawed. Conversely, next year could be the tallest, deepest team we have seen in decades. I think we would be better defensively if those guys were still around. Probably wouldn't have the top 2 scorers on the Big East, though.
Quote from: Floorslapper on January 14, 2018, 10:42:31 AM
The loss of Haanif, big picture for the program, was good. Paved the way for more PT for our talented freshman (Cain and Elliott), and freed up a scholarship.
Traci Carter still stings. In an idea scenario the coaching staff would have been able to sell him on staying, and red shirting THIS YEAR. For Traci that would have allowed him to not give up the half season of eligibility last year, he gave up, by transferring. Ultimately he's taking this whole year off at LaSalle any way. He would have improved tremendously going up against Markus and Rowsey at practice all year. Next year Rowsey is gone. Plug in Traci with Markus and we are off.
We would then have Traci as a Junior next year. Put him on that team with Morrow and now you have two very physical players who are plus defenders.
I am glad Traci decided to sit out the whole season this year. he will then have two full years of eligibility coming in at the beginning of the season next year.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 13, 2018, 06:25:20 PM
I think we're awesome this year. I also think we'll be more awesome next year. Losing at Butler is not a bad loss.
Our offense is awesome. Our defense is, well, we all know what our defense is like.
Quote from: #bansultan on January 14, 2018, 09:12:36 AM
Butler I'll give you. They are consistent. But Creighton? Since Doug McDermott graduated, we are 4-2 against them.
What about when McDermott was there? Point is, we should be doing much better given our advantages in resources, "big time coaching", etc.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 15, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
What about when McDermott was there? Point is, we should be doing much better given our advantages in resources, "big time coaching", etc.
Shift in goalposts noted.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 15, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
What about when McDermott was there?
When McDermott was there, Buzz lost to them twice. Wojo never coached against McDermott.