Crean's and Buzz's teams had good battles but consistently beat Providence. Wojo has fared much much worst. Definitely need to turn the corner against this Providence team with five losses. How do we hand Providence their six defeat?
"Worst" or "worse?l
Quote from: NCMUFan on January 01, 2018, 07:47:52 AM
Crean's and Buzz's teams had good battles but consistently beat Providence. Wojo has fared much much worst. Definitely need to turn the corner against this Providence team with five losses. How do we hand Providence their six defeat?
*worse
*sixth
I think we should score more points than they do.
Summon the bat. Problem solved.
(https://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1410703/BAT-ATTACK.gif?_ga=2.53652648.1667154778.1514819575-766694517.1514819575)
That was a classic. Who doesn't love a hometown bat.
You know he's 3-3 against a better coach/talent than either Crean/Buzz had to face. PC is just a better program than it was. And those were two razor-close losses last year.
Let Markus play, no bench time, except when he is winded. Let him play his way out of any so-called slump. Forget about his fouls, he is not a defensive studd, he is a dead eye. That is why other teams are all over him. Don't be predictable.
Quote from: DUNKS45 on January 01, 2018, 09:24:40 AM
That was a classic. Who doesn't love a hometown bat.
Ed Cooley, for one....
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1410667/2013-January-26-15-50-40.jpg)
One of my favorite Marquette games in the last 10 years.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:52:27 AM
Let Markus play, no bench time, except when he is winded. Let him play his way out of any so-called slump. Forget about his fouls, he is not a defensive studd, he is a dead eye. That is why other teams are all over him. Don't be predictable.
Markus needs to be rested when he has fouls because he is only one of two people who can run point.
Ridiculous that Kadeem Batts gets attacked by a bat.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 01, 2018, 11:03:15 AM
Ridiculous that Kadeem Batts gets attacked by a bat.
That was a bat attorney that attacked him. It was about unauthorized use of a trademarked name.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:52:27 AM
Let Markus play, no bench time, except when he is winded. Let him play his way out of any so-called slump. Forget about his fouls, he is not a defensive studd, he is a dead eye. That is why other teams are all over him. Don't be predictable.
Yep, he'll work it out, he has a lot of determination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_RigHoOp8k
We beat them twice two years ago and they made the NCAA tournament and we did not.
Last year they beat us twice and both teams made the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: Sultan of Kookiness on January 01, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
Markus needs to be rested when he has fouls because he is only one of two people who can run point.
Fair enough, so we lose half our firepower, let the opposition focus on Rowsey, and keep the game close just in case we need Markus to run point at the end, got it, thanks. I'll have to watch Markus run point more, I thought he was a shooter, that is unless he is on the bench with fouls wating to run point.
There is a lot about basketball I need to learn. The sitting of players with fouls is one common practice I don't get.
Markus is going to have a very good game , and that will be the key to us beating Providence. Should be another close game and a loud crowd at the Dunkin Donuts Center.
I always enjoy and look forward to our match ups against Cooley and Company. This kind of rivalry is what the Big East is all about.
2010 - Jeff Xavier gets hit in the face by Joseph Fulce. Then Xavier's brother comes onto the court to yell at the refs.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BDTRRDWrKKE/S2x4sySSoDI/AAAAAAAAAAs/LgHlGk5gpGI/s320/xavier+on+court+providence.jpg)
(see around 1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/v/MqVGMLBOqnY
Bat game was one of the most awesome moments in BC history. The towel throwing, ducking, and finally the lights out and music. Epic.
Quote from: Yukon Cornelius on January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 PM
2010 - Jeff Xavier gets hit in the face by Joseph Fulce. Then Xavier's brother comes onto the court to yell at the refs.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BDTRRDWrKKE/S2x4sySSoDI/AAAAAAAAAAs/LgHlGk5gpGI/s320/xavier+on+court+providence.jpg)
(see around 1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/v/MqVGMLBOqnY
Best thin' wuz da motherfooker callin' time out, ai na?
How long and how well can Cartwright play on his ankle?
Lest we forget the "Wrong Way" game in OT. Another classic.
One I loved was the "Hank Block" game at the Dunk.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:52:27 AM
Let Markus play, no bench time, except when he is winded. Let him play his way out of any so-called slump. Forget about his fouls, he is not a defensive studd, he is a dead eye. That is why other teams are all over him. Don't be predictable.
Maybe I'm not understanding your thinking but to optimize his offense you need to maximize his minutes. Playing him with 3 fouls in the first half for example would jeapardize his time on the court. Wojo's not going to forget that our offense runs through Rowsey, Markus and Sam. He'll play out of this slump. Ain't worried
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 12:39:06 PM
Fair enough, so we lose half our firepower, let the opposition focus on Rowsey, and keep the game close just in case we need Markus to run point at the end, got it, thanks. I'll have to watch Markus run point more, I thought he was a shooter, that is unless he is on the bench with fouls wating to run point.
There is a lot about basketball I need to learn. The sitting of players with fouls is one common practice I don't get.
Lower the level of adrenaline, calm down the player, so he is less likely to foul. That is the theory....
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 01, 2018, 05:06:35 PM
Lest we forget the "Wrong Way" game in OT. Another classic.
One I loved was the "Hank Block" game at the Dunk.
The "wrong way" game, or at least the one that I am thinking of, was against UConn.
Quote from: WE R FINAL FOUR on January 01, 2018, 05:35:28 PM
The "wrong way" game, or at least the one that I am thinking of, was against UConn.
I was referring to the "I went into the wrong bathroom game" ;)
Yes, you are right. This was also a classic. Junior hit a trey to tie it in regulation. So many memories.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 01, 2018, 07:40:48 PM
I was referring to the "I went into the wrong bathroom game" ;)
Yes, you are right. This was also a classic. Junior hit a trey to tie it in regulation. So many memories.
the interview with Junior after was classic. If someone could find it please post .
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 01, 2018, 05:17:12 PM
Lower the level of adrenaline, calm down the player, so he is less likely to foul. That is the theory....
Ah, theory or myth? We do it becsuse everybody does it. In my view, minutes are minutes and 3 points are three points. What's the diffrenc if they happen in the first half or the second half?
I fail to see the benefit in hording minutes. If the game ends and we are down x points and a player has one, two or three fouls "saved" where is the benefit?
I can sort of understand the logic for a rim protector, but for a 3 point shooter I must be missing something. Keep the shooter on the floor the maximum time, and if necessary, let him foul out.
We are dealing with a unique player and therefore need a unique strategy, no?
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 09:49:20 PM
Ah, theory or myth? We do it becsuse everybody does it. In my view, minutes are minutes and 3 points are three points. What's the diffrence if they happen in the first half or the second half?
I have watched plenty of college basketball games where a player hits two or three threes early and keeps shooting them even though he will not make another one.
Quote from: bilsu on January 01, 2018, 09:57:18 PM
I have watched plenty of college basketball games where a player hits two or three threes early and keeps shooting them even though he will not make another one.
Good point, BUT we are not dealing with any college player, we are dealing with an elite player, let him play, let him shoot, let him foul out.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:06:08 PM
Good point, BUT we are not dealing with any college player, we are dealing with an elite player, let him play, let him shoot, let him foul out.
I somewhat agree with this. I have seen many players sit several minutes, because they have too many fouls and never foul the rest of the game. Having them sit on the bench is not doing the team any good. However, Howard cannot stay away from getting fouls under the basket. We also need at least Markus or Rowsey on the floor at all times and if we let Markus foul out to early it would not allow us to rest Rowsey.
Heading to the Dunkin Donuts Center for the first time on Wednesday to watch. Taking the train from Boston to Providence station, does anyone have any experience doing this? Also throw in any suggestions for bars nearby to watch the end of the Cavs Celtics game afterwards.
Oh, and I hope that, if necessary, we have a third option for bringing the ball up at the end of the game. If we are up by double digits at the end of the game, who fouled out is not that critical. Better that then these nail biters that can go either way. Let's try and put somebody away and not play safe all the time.
Let's be a front runner and not hold on for a close win.
Or am I missing something? Is the BIG EAST a place where, for business purposes, close dramatic endings are part of the draw? That's probably another subject.
Quote from: bilsu on January 01, 2018, 10:12:47 PM
I somewhat agree with this. I have seen many players sit several minutes, because they have too many fouls and never foul the rest of the game. Having them sit on the bench is not doing the team any good. However, Howard cannot stay away from getting fouls under the basket. We also need at least Markus or Rowsey on the floor at all times and if we let Markus foul out to early it would not allow us to rest Rowsey.
Lots to agree about. Yes, what is Markus doing under the basket in the first place?
I'm hoping Markus does not foul out in the first ten minuets and I am making an assumption that he hits enough 3's to make his time on the floor count for something.
I think that his sitting wastes opportunity and then lets the opponent focus on Rowsey. Opportunity cost is always a difficult cost to calculate. Basketball seems to concentrate on a players worth at end game.
Quote from: tower912 on January 01, 2018, 02:48:53 PM
How long and how well can Cartwright play on his ankle?
Cartwright? Should be 5... 10 minutes.
Will Cartwright dribble the ball even once without carrying it this year?
Quote from: Cream Biggums on January 01, 2018, 10:15:09 PM
Heading to the Dunkin Donuts Center for the first time on Wednesday to watch. Taking the train from Boston to Providence station, does anyone have any experience doing this? Also throw in any suggestions for bars nearby to watch the end of the Cavs Celtics game afterwards.
I grew up in Rhody. It's a bit of a walk from the train station to the Dunk so you might want to Uber if the cold continues on this level. Right around the Dunk there are a ton of sports bars Trinity Brewhouse, Black Sheep, Murphys, Blake's Tavern.
If Cartwright is full strength, this will be a tough game. If he is only able to play limited minutes, I like our chances.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:52:27 AM
Let Markus play, no bench time, except when he is winded. Let him play his way out of any so-called slump. Forget about his fouls, he is not a defensive studd, he is a dead eye. That is why other teams are all over him. Don't be predictable.
I generally agree that coaches put players on the bench too long when they have foul trouble, but Howard is a little unique in my book. This is a team with four really good free throw shooters and five below-average free throw shooters. In a game where MU has a slight lead, it is such an asset to have Rowsey, Hauser and a 100% free throw shooter in the game. Howard is valuable throughout the game, but he is extremely valuable in those final minutes where MU has to win it at the line. With our shooters in the game at the end, teams are apt to not even bother fouling in the final minute. Insert a freshman and it's a different story.
Quote from: 21rooster on January 02, 2018, 12:30:13 PM
I generally agree that coaches put players on the bench too long when they have foul trouble, but Howard is a little unique in my book. This is a team with four really good free throw shooters and five below-average free throw shooters. In a game where MU has a slight lead, it is such an asset to have Rowsey, Hauser and a 100% free throw shooter in the game. Howard is valuable throughout the game, but he is extremely valuable in those final minutes where MU has to win it at the line. With our shooters in the game at the end, teams are apt to not even bother fouling in the final minute. Insert a freshman and it's a different story.
This is getting to be some kind of a logic problem, help.
How about let him play until he gets 4 fouls, take him out, then put him in at the most appropriate last minute.
It just galls me seeing him sit on the bench because of some myth, theory, wives tale, or punitive measure.
Lets beat Providence before the last 30 seconds.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 02, 2018, 12:56:17 PM
This is getting to be some kind of a logic problem, help.
How about let him play until he gets 4 fouls, take him out, then put him in at the most appropriate last minute.
It just galls me seeing him sit on the bench because of some myth, theory, wives tale, or punitive measure.
Lets beat Providence before the last 30 seconds.
Because you need to put him in to spell Rowsey at point. If he has four fouls by halftime, Rowsey can't get a break the entire second half. There are no other point options.
Quote from: Sultan of Kookiness on January 02, 2018, 01:04:16 PM
Because you need to put him in to spell Rowsey at point. If he has four fouls by halftime, Rowsey can't get a break the entire second half. There are no other point options.
Elliott has and can run the point. But not sure he's ready to do so unless its garbage time or for a quick 1 or 2 minute spurt in a contested BE game.
Two reasons to rest players in foul trouble.
1. Avoid picking up a quick foul that turns moderate foul trouble into major foul trouble. Players aren't always aware they are in foul trouble.
2. A player in foul trouble might become so passive on D, while trying to avoid fouling, that team defense suffers. Sometimes it feels like you're playing a man short if one defender has to be a matador.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on January 02, 2018, 01:15:31 PM
Two reasons to rest players in foul trouble.
1. Avoid picking up a quick foul that turns moderate foul trouble into major foul trouble. Players aren't always aware they are in foul trouble.
2. A player in foul trouble might become so passive on D, while trying to avoid fouling, that team defense suffers. Sometimes it feels like you're playing a man short if one defender has to be a matador.
1. Lets find out if Elliot can run the point, I bet he can.
2. Take Markus out for one turn and tell him he has three fouls.
3. He may play better with three fouls, lets see???
4. The problem is his sitting on the bench, not the number of fouls, 2, 3, 4.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 02, 2018, 01:21:32 PM
1. Lets find out if Elliot can run the point, I bet he can.
2. Take Markus out for one turn and tell him he has three fouls.
3. He may play better with three fouls, lets see???
4. The problem is his sitting on the bench, not the number of fouls, 2, 3, 4.
1. The time to find out if Elliott could run the point was against cupcakes. As he didn't get much run there in the non-con, now is DEFINITELY not the time to start the experiment. Something tells me if there were indicators in practice that he was ready for that role now, we'd have seen it already.
2. Lying to players probably isn't a good way for the staff to build rapport.
3. See #2.
4. Him sitting on the bench is a problem, but it needs to be solved by smarter play, not a philosophical change. We need Markus late in games. If he fouls out at the 15:00 mark of the second half, he's useless to us the rest of the night no matter what the rest of the team does. If he's unavailable, the rest of the team can play the game trying to compensate for time he's out and he can be available in the most high-leverage moments while allowing Markus short stints to spell Rowsey and make sure the team stays efficient and fresh. For better or worse, if he has foul trouble, we need to be careful with him because there simply aren't other options.
I'm onboard with not worrying about Markus' foul issues in the second half or at least not being ultra conservative with it, but we absolutely need Markus to spell Rowsey in 2nd halfs.
Also Elliot at full strength I'd get comfortable with running the point but with his thumb injury he just doesn't have the handle we need, especially in press break situations.
Gonna need Sac to play like that consistently and hit his free throws
Sounds like Cartwright is still pretty limited but is looking to play tomorrow.
We may be catching Providence on the road at just the right time, cause this game is huge for us considering the stretch we have coming up.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 02, 2018, 01:21:32 PM
1. Lets find out if Elliot can run the point, I bet he can.
2. Take Markus out for one turn and tell him he has three fouls.
3. He may play better with three fouls, lets see???
4. The problem is his sitting on the bench, not the number of fouls, 2, 3, 4.
Greg can play the point. His personality on the court is ideal for it. He is still recovering from the injury, which limits his handle to a certain degree right now. I think next year is when we see him playing taking on the leadership role.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:25:21 PM
what is Markus doing under the basket in the first place?
He has drawn several charges this season. Those are always huge plays.
Obviously, if he is in foul trouble, he can't be trying to draw them. But when he isn't, he should. And he does. And though I don't have stats for it (are those available?), my recollection is that he does it pretty well.
Game opens as a pick......
Who do we have for broadcasters?
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on January 01, 2018, 10:31:25 PM
Cartwright? Should be 5... 10 minutes.
Excellent reference, made me laugh
What's more difficult: Finding Providence or finding Sacar?
Do we know how limited cartwright is
Quote from: MuMark on January 02, 2018, 08:49:41 PM
Game opens as a pick......
TYPICAL The whole deal is for every game to be close. It's just me, I feel I'm being played. In my day we would go to a game and one team would win and the other team would lose. You could feel the outcome early in the game. Now every game is a nail bitter. Why? Is it all gamed? Are all the decisions made to assure a close ending?
Is it that to have a competitive league ever game must be a close call?
Might as well go to Vegas and play red. Its 50-50 all the time.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 01, 2018, 10:52:27 AM
Let Markus play, no bench time, except when he is winded. Let him play his way out of any so-called slump. Forget about his fouls, he is not a defensive studd, he is a dead eye. That is why other teams are all over him. Don't be predictable.
Do you ever stop and think about why coaches don't do what you are suggesting?
Quote from: avid1010 on January 03, 2018, 05:14:17 AM
Do you ever stop and think about why coaches don't do what you are suggesting?
All coaches are wrong and should consult vogue for coaching tips before each game?
Quote from: vogue65 on January 03, 2018, 03:04:24 AM
TYPICAL The whole deal is for every game to be close. It's just me, I feel I'm being played. In my day we would go to a game and one team would win and the other team would lose. You could feel the outcome early in the game. Now every game is a nail bitter. Why? Is it all gamed? Are all the decisions made to assure a close ending?
Is it that to have a competitive league ever game must be a close call?
Might as well go to Vegas and play red. Its 50-50 all the time.
So you choose to go full fledged tinfoil hat conspiracy theory as the explanation versus the thought that with all the money and attention the game gets the talent pool has increased and the gap between teams has narrowed? More programs that are better (facilities, players, coaches, etc.) is better for the sport and better for the student athlete.
"back in my day" = "i don't like change"
Quote from: naginiF on January 03, 2018, 06:55:11 AM
So you choose to go full fledged tinfoil hat conspiracy theory as the explanation versus the thought that with all the money and attention the game gets the talent pool has increased and the gap between teams has narrowed? More programs that are better (facilities, players, coaches, etc.) is better for the sport and better for the student athlete.
"back in my day" = "i don't like change"
Not exactly, I love change, I embrace chance for the better. For some parity is exciting, for me it is boring. Hay, whatever floats your boat. I would enjoy seeing somebody win by a larger margin, all these "nail biters" are boring to me. It seems to me that the teams/systems are biased toward close games. It's just me, no tin hat, see you in the morning.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 03, 2018, 07:54:10 AM
Not exactly, I love change, I embrace chance for the better. For some parity is exciting, for me it is boring. Hay, whatever floats your boat. I would enjoy seeing somebody win by a larger margin, all these "nail biters" are boring to me. It seems to me that the teams/systems are biased toward close games. It's just me, no tin hat, see you in the morning.
You'd prefer 40 point blowouts nightly vs a close game and an exciting finish? All the way through the NCAA tournament? Why even bother watching sports?
Back to the primary topic (beating Providence), I tweeted some about this but I think this game is a classic game of surface analytics say it should be close but if you look below the surface the numbers make more sense and favor an MU win. Providence is a middling defensive team who seemingly hangs it's hat on 3pt defense(per kenpom, etc metrics). You think, hey MU likes 3s so that's bad if Providence defends them well. If you dig below the surface, Providence is only good at 3pt defense because they've played teams that are either bad at shooting 3s or don't take a lot of 3s. So MU definitely has an ability to score on Providence.
And for all the concerns of Cartwright playing, even if at 100% this actually gives MU an advantage on the offensive end. Where MU has struggled is against longer guards that don't let Markus and Rowsey get clean looks. With Cartwright in the game (5-11) Providence is going to have to decide who to put him on Rowsey(who shoots from anywhere so always have to be on alert/reactive) or Markus(slump aside, could drive on Cartwright, especially with a bum wheel and PU doesn't protect the rim well).
Ultimately I think Hauser is the determining factor, if he can play strong both ways and play the kind of defense on Bullock that he played on Maten of Georgia, I think MU wins this comfortably.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 03, 2018, 07:54:10 AM
Not exactly, I love change, I embrace chance for the better. For some parity is exciting, for me it is boring. Hay, whatever floats your boat. I would enjoy seeing somebody win by a larger margin, all these "nail biters" are boring to me. It seems to me that the teams/systems are biased toward close games. It's just me, no tin hat, see you in the morning.
Blame it on the refs. Too many games are impacted by the refs who call picky picky fouls early in games on impact players like Howard or Houser.
Quote from: mu03eng on January 03, 2018, 08:03:13 AM
Back to the primary topic (beating Providence), I tweeted some about this but I think this game is a classic game of surface analytics say it should be close but if you look below the surface the numbers make more sense and favor an MU win. Providence is a middling defensive team who seemingly hangs it's hat on 3pt defense(per kenpom, etc metrics). You think, hey MU likes 3s so that's bad if Providence defends them well. If you dig below the surface, Providence is only good at 3pt defense because they've played teams that are either bad at shooting 3s or don't take a lot of 3s. So MU definitely has an ability to score on Providence.
And for all the concerns of Cartwright playing, even if at 100% this actually gives MU an advantage on the offensive end. Where MU has struggled is against longer guards that don't let Markus and Rowsey get clean looks. With Cartwright in the game (5-11) Providence is going to have to decide who to put him on Rowsey(who shoots from anywhere so always have to be on alert/reactive) or Markus(slump aside, could drive on Cartwright, especially with a bum wheel and PU doesn't protect the rim well).
Ultimately I think Hauser is the determining factor, if he can play strong both ways and play the kind of defense on Bullock that he played on Maten of Georgia, I think MU wins this comfortably.
Yup, we discussed this but Providence has only played 3 teams that are ranked in the top-100 in 3PFG%. Their 3PFG% defensive ranking is largely built on playing a ton of teams that are somewhere between mediocre and downright terrible at shooting from range.
For what it's worth, they lost all three games they played against teams that are top-100 in 3PFG%: Houston, UMass, and Creighton. I think we have a good chance tonight.
It was mentioned a while ago, but I haven't seen anything recently. Is Holt officially done for the season?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 03, 2018, 08:08:32 AM
Blame it on the refs. Too many games are impacted by the refs who call picky picky fouls early in games on impact players like Howard or Houser.
One of my points exactly, along with the coaches playing into it by benching impact players. It makes most of the game a charade, might as well go for a beer during the game and show up at the end. I know, I'm a gadfly, no tin hat.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 03, 2018, 08:34:34 AM
It was mentioned a while ago, but I haven't seen anything recently. Is Holt officially done for the season?
Yes, he is redshirting. Last I heard, I don't even believe he is with the team.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 03, 2018, 03:04:24 AM
TYPICAL The whole deal is for every game to be close. It's just me, I feel I'm being played. In my day we would go to a game and one team would win and the other team would lose. You could feel the outcome early in the game. Now every game is a nail bitter. Why? Is it all gamed? Are all the decisions made to assure a close ending?
Is it that to have a competitive league ever game must be a close call?
Might as well go to Vegas and play red. Its 50-50 all the time.
It's part of the Deep State talk to Eric, he knows.....
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 03, 2018, 10:08:39 AM
Yes, he is redshirting. Last I heard, I don't even believe he is with the team.
If he is redshirting he is with the team.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 03, 2018, 12:21:27 PM
If he is redshirting he is with the team.
He may be back now, but he was not with the team last semester.
https://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2017/11/29/16716800/providence-basketball-emmitt-holt-injury-update (https://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2017/11/29/16716800/providence-basketball-emmitt-holt-injury-update)
Article says that he was due to return sometime this month, he probably came back for conference play. Never wish an injury but I feel a lot better dealing with him next year with our improved front court.
Quote from: Clam Crowder on January 02, 2018, 09:28:49 AM
I grew up in Rhody. It's a bit of a walk from the train station to the Dunk so you might want to Uber if the cold continues on this level. Right around the Dunk there are a ton of sports bars Trinity Brewhouse, Black Sheep, Murphys, Blake's Tavern.
Thanks Clam