1. Any time Cam gets in the game, there isn't a ton left to say.
2. A couple of times tonight, there were plays between Cain and Elliott and I found myself thinking that they had been doing this together since 7th grade and it showed. Two friends having fun. And succeeding for a night.
3. Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus Markus.
4. The defense was much better in the second half. I think Chicago State made some tough shots in the first half that made MU's defense look worse than it was.
5. But in the first half, it was really frustrating to see Chicago St getting offensive rebounds.
6. Anim with a double double. Well done, young man.
7. I am waiting for some moron to say that Sam is no good because he didn't score worth a crap against Chicago St. Moron.
8. So, it was fun. But it was Chicago State.
9. We will see how the frosh do against a high major soon enough.
Chicago state blows
But Markus needed a blackout game like that.
Get the stroke back
Hopefully he saved some for Saturday still.
Glad the shots fell today. Hoo boy were there a lot of 3s. 39 attempts?!
Fun to see.
I assume we are all still glum and sad that Wojo will never win again.
That felt good. Now it's time to beat Georgia.
Georgia will be tough, love the minutes the freshman got tonight. Elliott could be really good.
I really like these freshmen.
Elliott is awesome. 9 assists, 6 rebounds, a good defender, threw down a couple dunks.
Cain's also going to be good. Doesn't have full control of his athleticism yet, but he's got a nice motor. Easy to overlook a couple of freshman moments when he makes up for them with hustle.
Quote from: DUNKS45 on November 29, 2017, 10:06:15 PM
Georgia will be tough, love the minutes the freshman got tonight. Elliott could be really good.
If Elliot gets a jumper/free throw stroke
Dude could be scary good in a couple years.
Have been thinking the same thing about Elliott and Cain all season Tower.
Glad we got a slumpbuster. On to UGA
Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 29, 2017, 10:00:12 PM
I assume we are all still glum and sad that Wojo will never win again.
I'm sure Wojo and the administration aren't planning to add this W to the resume highlights. Winning big in a game you're expected to win big isn't a positive, it's simply neutral. Beating Georgia will be a positive.
Motown Trio way underrated...
1.Ners could start for Chicago St.
2.Markus is really fun to watch (on offense) when he's on - so is Rowsey.
3.Both play ole' defense on the perimeter, even against cupcakes.
4.Sacar looked solid.
5.If Elliott learns how to shoot and Cain puts on some muscle both could be very good.
6.Sam was invisible on both ends.
7.So was Matt.
8.So was Theo.
9.Cupcakes are yummy.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 10:30:51 PM
I'm sure Wojo and the administration aren't planning to add this W to the resume highlights. Winning big in a game you're expected to win big isn't a positive, it's simply neutral. Beating Georgia will be a positive.
Teal?
Or are you just a jerk?
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on November 29, 2017, 10:42:48 PM
Teal?
Or are you just a jerk?
I just have higher expectations for the program than some I guess.
At halftime, I had to look up Chicago State's season shooting percentages. When I did, I was pretty sure the law of averages wouldn't let them keep knocking in 27-footers and many hand-in-face jumpers.
It was nice to see us play better interior defense in the second half.
All in all, about what I expected. Fun to watch. We now begin arguably the most important stretch of the season (at least until the next "most important stretch").
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2017, 09:54:51 PM4. The defense was much better in the second half. I think Chicago State made some tough shots in the first half that made MU's defense look worse than it was.
The problem with this is it seems most teams make tough shots against us that make the defense look worse. The reality is good college basketball players sometimes make tough shots. Our problem isn't those shots, it's the number of uncontested drives to the hole we allow. Good defensive teams don't allow those and turn those into tough shots. We allowed a number of easy drives tonight.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 29, 2017, 10:42:21 PM
6.Sam was invisible on both ends.
7.So was Matt.
8.So was Theo.
9.Cupcakes are yummy.
Theo managed to foul out, which is more negative than invisible. I'm starting to think he may not get any minutes when Froling is eligible. He's really got to improve his basketball IQ to stay on the floor at this level. So much potential, though!
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
The problem with this is it seems most teams make tough shots against us that make the defense look worse. The reality is good college basketball players sometimes make tough shots. Our problem isn't those shots, it's the number of uncontested drives to the hole we allow. Good defensive teams don't allow those and turn those into tough shots. We allowed a number of easy drives tonight.
+1. There were several plays where Markus or Rowsey didn't even provide token resistance as guys drove past them.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 11:07:55 PM
Theo managed to foul out, which is more negative than invisible. I'm starting to think he may not get any minutes when Froling is eligible. He's really got to improve his basketball IQ to stay on the floor at this level. So much potential, though!
He got away with a ton of bumps on the perimeter as well. Was surprised a few times when they didn't whistle John.
Quote from: DUNKS45 on November 29, 2017, 10:06:15 PM
Georgia will be tough, love the minutes the freshman got tonight. Elliott could be really good.
I know this sounds cold, but I did not miss HC. Seeing the two young fellas play was great. They are long, quick and can get up in the air.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2017, 11:20:41 PM
I know this sounds cold, but I did not miss HC. Seeing the two young fellas play was great. They are long, quick and can get up in the air.
It ain't cold if it true. In other news, Roney Eford is PISSED at me.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2017, 11:20:41 PM
I know this sounds cold, but I did not miss HC. Seeing the two young fellas play was great. They are long, quick and can get up in the air.
Another body right now would be great. Especially a vet.
I do like the experience the 2 are gonna gain though
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2017, 11:20:41 PM
I know this sounds cold, but I did not miss HC. Seeing the two young fellas play was great. They are long, quick and can get up in the air.
I thought the same thing. Elliott, Cain, and also Anim are still rough around the edges but each one has a more diverse game than HC. Each has a higher ceiling. The Haani that we saw was OK, but it was all we were ever going to see.
Positive thinking: We've only lost to ranked opponents so far
Watched the highlights on Marquette's channel. Just noticed that Mike Jackabowski called Jamal Cain "Andrew Cain" after one of his putbacks. In Mike's defense, Andrew did shoot the three that Cain rebounded and putback.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 30, 2017, 01:44:34 AM
Watched the highlights on Marquette's channel. Just noticed that Mike Jackabowski called Jamal Cain "Andrew Cain" after one of his putbacks. In Mike's defense, Andrew did shoot the three that Cain rebounded and putback.
He went all in on that call too.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2017, 11:20:41 PM
I know this sounds cold, but I did not miss HC. Seeing the two young fellas play was great. They are long, quick and can get up in the air.
For one night, no. It was Chicago State. For bigger, stronger, deeper opponents, particularly when we get into the conference grind, I suspect we will. The frosh looked good tonight. Are they ready to guard Bluiett? Booth? Brunson?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
The problem with this is it seems most teams make tough shots against us that make the defense look worse. The reality is good college basketball players sometimes make tough shots. Our problem isn't those shots, it's the number of uncontested drives to the hole we allow. Good defensive teams don't allow those and turn those into tough shots. We allowed a number of easy drives tonight.
Could not have said it better. If our defense does not improve when Harry comes on board it will be a long season. Our only athletic defenders are freshmen or sophomores; the more experienced and athletic teams will eat us for lunch inside as Heldt who gives his all just isn't quick enough. Wojo has drilled into these guys how to play defense. The problem is they cannot execute that defense. With Morrow and Theo with a year under his belt hopefully that will change next season.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 30, 2017, 07:08:47 AM
Could not have said it better. If our defense does not improve when Harry comes on board it will be a long season. Our only athletic defenders are freshmen or sophomores; the more experienced and athletic teams will eat us for lunch inside as Heldt who gives his all just isn't quick enough. Wojo has drilled into these guys how to play defense. The problem is they cannot execute that defense. With Morrow and Theo with a year under his belt hopefully that will change next season.
The type of players that Wolo recruited are offensively very strong. But physically not strong at all. Every team that MU plays, even Chicago St., physically bigger.
Strong athletic kids will drive on Howard and Rowsey. I think as the team moves forward, Cain and Elliott, will become bigger parts of the defense. They for sure are
not bigger, but they are more athletic. I liked what I saw from Cain defensively in the second half. Games like this, against Buy games, are good for the freshman. Not sure Theo has basketball skills yet, it might be wise next year for him to take a red-shirt year, if Froling can play. Not sure Wojo knows how to utilize a center yet,
Luke and now Matt always have there back to the basket, Matt has a nice touch at the free throw line, maybe he can hit a 15 footer, they opposition might give him
that shot anytime he wants to take it. Like to see him take it. Open up the driving lanes then.
Markus and Rowsey shot 3s really well, but I don't think we played well otherwise, though Elliott showed some good PG instincts. Chicago State is a dreadful, dreadful team that plays like they just met before the game and we let them hang around for a half. Second half was more like it, but I'd rather have seen us work offense rather than chuck threes, particularly anyone that doesn't have the "ow" sound in their surname. I suppose it is tough to stay focused against a team that is that bad.
Anybody bet on the game? If the line was 29 like I saw around here, that would have been a tough late cover to absorb.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 30, 2017, 07:08:47 AM
Could not have said it better. If our defense does not improve when Harry comes on board it will be a long season. Our only athletic defenders are freshmen or sophomores; the more experienced and athletic teams will eat us for lunch inside as Heldt who gives his all just isn't quick enough. Wojo has drilled into these guys how to play defense. The problem is they cannot execute that defense. With Morrow and Theo with a year under his belt hopefully that will change next season.
If our defense scheme cannot be executed by the current players, then we need to either play a different M2M scheme or look elsewhere for a system that works for the players we have.
The current system does not seem to contain the dribble-drive & frequently leaves our bigs helping with double teams above the top of the key -- causing shifts and breakdowns. Looks exactly the same as last year - and teams seem to be exploiting it the same way as last year.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 30, 2017, 07:08:47 AM
Could not have said it better. If our defense does not improve when Harry comes on board it will be a long season. Our only athletic defenders are freshmen or sophomores; the more experienced and athletic teams will eat us for lunch inside as Heldt who gives his all just isn't quick enough. Wojo has drilled into these guys how to play defense. The problem is they cannot execute that defense. With Morrow and Theo with a year under his belt hopefully that will change next season.
I don't think scheme is the problem. I think we have a starting backcourt that is stellar offensively but can't guard anyone. It isn't simply the pick and roll with the hedge. Markus and Rowsey can't stay in front of their guys on a one-on-one drive. And Heldt isn't a "rim protecting" center by any means who could clean up the mess. John could get there if he could stay out of foul trouble.
I also think that our defense has gotten worse since Haanif left. We will see how it goes the next three games, but he did some things on that end of the floor that were underappreciated.
The good news is that Elllliotttt and Cain are real good defenders. Just wish they had a little more offense. But I think that will come.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 10:30:51 PM
I'm sure Wojo and the administration aren't planning to add this W to the resume highlights. Winning big in a game you're expected to win big isn't a positive, it's simply neutral. Beating Georgia will be a positive.
I love the freshmen and Haani leaving gives them more opportunity to play, so that is a silver lining. However, this team without Froling is going to be punished in the Big East. Hopefully, Froling is a big difference maker.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2017, 11:10:15 PM
He got away with a ton of bumps on the perimeter as well. Was surprised a few times when they didn't whistle John.
Yes—TJ had several bumps out high on hedges which should have been called. Still managed to foul out.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 29, 2017, 10:08:02 PM
If Elliot gets a jumper/free throw stroke
Dude could be scary good in a couple years.
Scary good might be an understatement. Most assists last night (9), second most rebounds (6), and if he can start scoring (7 points) watch out, he may not be here for 4 years.
I realize it was Chi-State, but Greg Elliott looked like he had the highest ceiling on the team.
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 30, 2017, 07:34:51 AM
Matt has a nice touch at the free throw line, maybe he can hit a 15 footer, they opposition might give him that shot anytime he wants to take it. Like to see him take it. Open up the driving lanes then.
I've had the same thought the last couple games. Matt has good form and a nice ball rotation on his FTs. Couldn't he pop a 12-15 foot jumper?
Caught an interview with Jay Billas while I was driving in the car. At one point the he was asked about coach K playing a zone at times this season. Billas' response was that Duke was young and not very good on defense and coach K felt he had to play some zone based on matchups. I wish Wojo would play some zone to mix things up and maybe avoid some foul trouble.
Quote from: VegasWarrior77 on November 30, 2017, 08:19:23 AM
I've had the same thought the last couple games. Matt has good form and a nice ball rotation on his FTs. Couldn't he pop a 12-15 foot jumper?
Caught an interview with Jay Billas while I was driving in the car. At one point the he was asked about coach K playing a zone at times this season. Billas' response was that Duke was young and not very good on defense and coach K felt he had to play some zone based on matchups. I wish Wojo would play some zone to mix things up and maybe avoid some foul trouble.
They played zone last night on a couple occasions. It wasn't very good.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 08:16:10 AM
Scary good might be an understatement. Most assists last night (9), second most rebounds (6), and if he can start scoring (7 points) watch out, he may not be here for 4 years.
I realize it was Chi-State, but Greg Elliott looked like he had the highest ceiling on the team.
After one good but not great outing against a sub-300 RPI team, you're willing to talk NBA prospects? Yikes
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/11/2a/66/112a66613f3b06a41742f05b68e6a73e--game-night-mat.jpg)
Yes, the zone was worse than the man in the first half.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 08:16:10 AM
Scary good might be an understatement. Most assists last night (9), second most rebounds (6), and if he can start scoring (7 points) watch out, he may not be here for 4 years.
I realize it was Chi-State, but Greg Elliott looked like he had the highest ceiling on the team.
Let's just allow a young kid to find his groove a little before we anoint him.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 30, 2017, 08:25:30 AM
After one good but not great outing against a sub-300 RPI team, you're willing to talk NBA prospects? Yikes
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/11/2a/66/112a66613f3b06a41742f05b68e6a73e--game-night-mat.jpg)
member when I said, "I realize it was Chi-State"? I member.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/48960976/reading-is-fundamental.jpg)
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 08:42:50 AM
Let's just allow a young kid to find his groove a little before we anoint him.
Not what I was doing. Said he has the highest ceiling on the team.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 08:16:10 AM
Scary good might be an understatement. Most assists last night (9), second most rebounds (6), and if he can start scoring (7 points) watch out, he may not be here for 4 years.
I realize it was Chi-State, but Greg Elliott looked like he had the highest ceiling on the team.
Ah I remember the bygone days of 2015-16 when people were saying the same thing about Haanif.
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 08:42:50 AM
Let's just allow a young kid to find his groove a little before we anoint him.
So do that against a solid Division 1 team, then maybe 4 years from now once he grows into his tiny body, he might be good enough for a try-out. Long ways away
from even discussing the NBA.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 30, 2017, 08:46:56 AM
Ah I remember the bygone days of 2015-16 when people were saying the same thing about Haanif.
Probably me.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 08:46:46 AM
Not what I was doing. Said he has the highest ceiling on the team.
A declarative statement about a Frosh in his first month is simply foolish. Why doesn't Theo have the highest ceiling? He could be Angel Delgado as a Senior. Point is nobody has a clue. And you didn't say he
might have the highest ceiling which everyone could buy into. :)
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 08:52:01 AM
A declarative statement about a Frosh in his first month is simply foolish. Why doesn't Theo have the highest ceiling? He could be Angel Delgado as a Senior. Point is nobody has a clue. And you didn't say he might have the highest ceiling which everyone could buy into. :)
This is a college basketball message board and we are all fans with opinions, not professional prognosticators.
This is my opinion, and is open to change. No reason for a crucifixion.
Theo hasn't shown that he can stay on the court. Could he have the highest ceiling? SURE, but currently, I happen to think that Greg Elliott does.
Sure are a
lot of people around here that like to try to suck the fun out of everything.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 08:46:46 AM
Not what I was doing. Said he has the highest ceiling on the team.
I agree, in his short window have we seen anyone on this team with better, smoother moves than him. More minutes for sure.
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 08:53:17 AM
Lesson learned? 8-)
Character revealed.
I seem to be one of the few people on this board that can openly admit they were wrong about something.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 09:02:04 AM
Character revealed.
I seem to be one of the few people on this board that can openly admit they were wrong about something.
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard... wouldn't want ya to get a bruise
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 30, 2017, 08:47:31 AM
So do that against a solid Division 1 team, then maybe 4 years from now once he grows into his tiny body, he might be good enough for a try-out. Long ways away
from even discussing the NBA.
Agreed, but he's got measurables for position and a head for the game. Needs to add 2 things (in a major way): bulk on his frame, and a jumper.
Luckily, he came to a great program to develop his jumper. I think he'll be a completely different player come junior year. Think we still need a grad transfer PG/CG that can D up and hit the open J if we want to make some major noise next year.
Too early to anoint, too early to bury. Elliot has looked comfortable out there. Cain looked comfortable against Chicago State. These are good things. It is better than them looking bad against Chicago State. Dawson looked like Magic against Grambling. How did that work out for him or the denizens of this board when it became an obsession?
Marquette is entering another difficult 3 game stretch. The freshmen are going to have to perform against bigger, stronger, more experienced teams and in one of the most difficult venues they will play in. Patience. I assume there will be ups and downs and that progress won't be linear. However, if they kick ass during the next 3 games, there will be cause for optimism.
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 08:52:01 AM
A declarative statement about a Frosh in his first month is simply foolish. Why doesn't Theo have the highest ceiling? He could be Angel Delgado as a Senior. Point is nobody has a clue. And you didn't say he might have the highest ceiling which everyone could buy into. :)
Since we're mincing words here, that isn't what I said either. I said it looked like he had the highest ceiling. Which is clearly an opinion.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e8/e838b6e6c338063fb84e121cb453015dd3d8b5749efd82491bf7487c7c1a21d1.jpg)
Quote from: skianth16 on November 30, 2017, 09:04:23 AM
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard... wouldn't want ya to get a bruise
Don't you have another Wojo hate diatribe to type up?
Not crucifying ya brother. Just saying you said, and then doubled down, on something dumb. Have a great day.
The ceiling is the roof.
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 09:16:39 AM
Not crucifying ya brother. Just saying you said, and then doubled down, on something dumb. Have a great day.
I'm just sayin'. You read it wrong. It's cool if you won't admit it. Proof is there.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 09:17:57 AM
I'm just sayin'. You read it wrong. It's cool if you won't admit it. Proof is there.
Fine, you win. I hope you're right.
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 09:21:09 AM
Fine, you win. I hope you're right.
Thanks, just trying to adjust to the new culture of the board.
I'm glad I'm now allowed to have my own opinion about something Marquette related.
Does anyone have a video of what a successful defensive possession looks like when a nearly 7ftr hedges all the way to mid court on a 5'9" guard while the other teams big rolls to the basket? I don't even remember what the correct defensive scheme looks like.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 30, 2017, 08:20:13 AM
They played zone last night on a couple occasions. It wasn't very good.
I was a proponent of trying zone. Ugh. Maybe we could get away with it with only one of the midgets in there, but definitely not both.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 09:24:00 AM
Thanks, just trying to adjust to the new culture of the board.
I'm glad I'm now allowed to have my own opinion about something Marquette related.
You can have an opinion on anything you want my friend.
Hards:
What you concluded was that if Elliott develops a shot, "watch out, he may not be here for 4 years."
About a dozen games into Mayo's freshman year, far too many Scoopers were presenting similar NBA implications. I believe some similar things were even said about Haani.
Now, neither was here for 4 years ... but not because the NBA came a'callin'.
I am extremely hopeful about Elliott, as well as Cain and John, but we know precious little about them yet. You were expressing an opinion, and you're allowed one of those as much as I am or anybody else is, but don't be stunned when an implied NBA career for a kid who has played 100 college minutes gets a little blowback.
On a couple other subjects ...
ZONE: I too thought this might help things. The problem is that Markus and Rowsey are small. Most good zone defenses - and there ARE such things - feature players at the top who have some height, long arms and defensive quickness. Markus and Andrew are 0-for in all departments (although there is hope that Markus could develop defensive quickness). A good zone usually has a shot-blocker at the back, too.
M & A's D: It is true that both Markus and Andrew are pretty bad defensive players (and that's probably being kind), but when you get 44 pts a game from them, it's hard to be too down on them. Everybody has a role, and on an otherwise offensively challenged team, theirs is a darn important one. I hope their poor defense isn't due to lack of effort but rather to lack of physical gifts. I mean, Markus will occasionally slide in and take a charge, indicating that he's willing and possibly indicating that he can improve on that end. Rowsey ... he's a 5th-year player and is a leopard who is unlikely to change his spots.
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 09:33:41 AM
You can have an opinion on anything you want my friend.
There is an open Ambassadorship awaiting you Glow.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 30, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Don't you have another Wojo hate diatribe to type up?
Nah, I'm good for now. I may have some new ammunition after the UGA or UVM games, though. It sill amazes me how wanting to win is considered taboo on this board at times, though. Criticizing a mediocre coach should be acceptable.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 30, 2017, 09:48:28 AM
Nah, I'm good for now. I may have some new ammunition after the UGA or UVM games, though. It sill amazes me how wanting to win is considered taboo on this board at times, though. Criticizing a mediocre coach should be acceptable.
So you are ready to pull the trigger on Wojo? If so, fair enough. Two questions. 1. Who do you think will want the job? As I recall, the runner ups behind wojo were Cuonzo and maybe Ben Howland. MU's admin clearly made the best choice among those 3. 2. Are you ready to deal with more years of mediocrity as the next savior gets his guys and his system in place?
I am not convinced that Wojo is the 10 year, get us back to the final 4 and consistently ranked answer. If he is able to land a quality guard for next year and the rest of the roster remains status quo, I would hate to not get a chance to see how it turns out.
Quote from: MU82 on November 30, 2017, 09:41:32 AM
M & A's D: It is true that both Markus and Andrew are pretty bad defensive players (and that's probably being kind), but when you get 44 pts a game from them, it's hard to be too down on them. Everybody has a role, and on an otherwise offensively challenged team, theirs is a darn important one. I hope their poor defense isn't due to lack of effort but rather to lack of physical gifts. I mean, Markus will occasionally slide in and take a charge, indicating that he's willing and possibly indicating that he can improve on that end. Rowsey ... he's a 5th-year player and is a leopard who is unlikely to change his spots.
Does anyone have access to stats about what Howard and Rowsey's +/- is, particularly when they are on the floor together? Just curious how their offensive prowess really does weigh against their defensive liabilities. I know those numbers must be out there, but don't know where to look or have access to those sites.
Quote from: tower912 on November 30, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
So you are ready to pull the trigger on Wojo? If so, fair enough. Two questions. 1. Who do you think will want the job? As I recall, the runner ups behind wojo were Cuonzo and maybe Ben Howland. MU's admin clearly made the best choice among those 3. 2. Are you ready to deal with more years of mediocrity as the next savior gets his guys and his system in place?
I am not convinced that Wojo is the 10 year, get us back to the final 4 and consistently ranked answer. If he is able to land a quality guard for next year and the rest of the roster remains status quo, I would hate to not get a chance to see how it turns out.
I don't think I'm ready to boot him just yet. He's done a nice job of landing some quality guys, there's no disputing that. The product he puts on the floor has just been so frustrating, and we often see him get outcoached in the second half of games where our opponent seems to adjust well and we don't. I definitely want to see what we can do next year with Hauser and Morrow and the added experience of Howard and Sam. But if the team doesn't perform well next year, I think it's perfectly acceptable to look elsewhere for a coach, maybe even encouraged.
For the rest of this season, I'm hoping we'll see improvements or at least some changes on defense and a little more balance on offense that doesn't require 20+ threes per game to get a W. And I'm hoping we continue to see improvement from the young guys, especially in conference play where the competition will be better and bigger. To be clear, I want Wojo to be successful, I'm just not impressed with him yet and think he's been slow to improve so far.
Quote from: MUEng92 on November 30, 2017, 09:24:02 AM
Does anyone have a video of what a successful defensive possession looks like when a nearly 7ftr hedges all the way to mid court on a 5'9" guard while the other teams big rolls to the basket? I don't even remember what the correct defensive scheme looks like.
Seriously...can someone that understands defensive schemes more than I explain what this accomplishes? Matt and Theo seem to run around between the paint and the top of the key like chickens with their heads cut off every defensive possession. What does this accomplish? It doesn't seem to me to accomplish anything, and maybe that is the players, but if executed correctly, what is the purpose? Just leaves the paint guarded by smaller defenders that can't affect a driver.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 30, 2017, 10:25:20 AM
Seriously...can someone that understands defensive schemes more than I explain what this accomplishes? Matt and Theo seem to run around between the paint and the top of the key like chickens with their heads cut off every defensive possession. What does this accomplish? It doesn't seem to me to accomplish anything, and maybe that is the players, but if executed correctly, what is the purpose? Just leaves the paint guarded by smaller defenders that can't affect a driver.
Keeps the ball handler extended from the basket and can't easily take a 3. Markus and Rowsey get quite a few 3's off a pick.
The issue is the weak side guy is late to cover or too small. We get a lot of cheap fouls or easy baskets by that weak side guy being late.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 30, 2017, 10:25:20 AM
Seriously...can someone that understands defensive schemes more than I explain what this accomplishes? Matt and Theo seem to run around between the paint and the top of the key like chickens with their heads cut off every defensive possession. What does this accomplish? It doesn't seem to me to accomplish anything, and maybe that is the players, but if executed correctly, what is the purpose? Just leaves the paint guarded by smaller defenders that can't affect a driver.
FWIW, Buzz's defense did much the same thing. It turns the ballhandler away from the lane, forces him to a side. Then the big recovers to the middle with his hands up and his head on a swivel to prevent the pass to the rolling big. Otule was very good at it. Davante was good at the hedge, less good at the recovery. It is a staple of pick and roll defense. The weak side wing is supposed to drop into the paint to contest the pass to the rolling big man. If the weak side wing is late or too small, or the 5 is too slow at the recovery, you get bigs getting nearly uncontested point blank shots. If the weak side rotation is on time with a large enough defender, you get a possible steal/deflection or at worst a contested shot from a 6'10 offensive player over a 6'7 defensive player. Also, if the defensive 5 is able to retreat in a timely fashion with his hands up, you cut off the pass to the rolling screener.
If done correctly, the point guard must now initiate the offense elsewhere, the few seconds of recovery theoretically being enough for the defensive 5 to drop down and guard the post and the weak side wing to recover out to the offensive wing lurking near the 3 point line. It is a fairly standard defensive scheme. So far, it looks like Matt and Theo are better than Luke was at the recovery to the middle. However, if they are late, and the weak side wing is Markus or Andrew, it is an easy lay up.
Good comments, cheebs and tower.
tower touched on this ... it also creates a little chaotic look, a frenetic situation, that can force the ballhandler to make a rushed or foolish decision that leads to a bad pass, a deflection, a travel, etc. In some ways, it is similar to a press in that regard - even when the press is broken, it often leads to the opponent rushing something and/or playing out of character.
Personally, I like the center hedge if you have the right personnel. I'm not sure we do (actually, pretty sure we don't).
I like Wojo more than many do, but I disagree with him on this tactic, at least on the number of times it is employed every game no matter what our personnel group on the floor is.
Thanks guys - helpful info for this guy (grew up a hockey player).
Quote from: jsglow on November 30, 2017, 08:52:01 AM
A declarative statement about a Frosh in his first month is simply foolish. Why doesn't Theo have the highest ceiling? He could be Angel Delgado as a Senior. Point is nobody has a clue. And you didn't say he might have the highest ceiling which everyone could buy into. :)
1. "I realize it was Chi-State, but Greg Elliott looked like he had the highest ceiling on the team." is, by definition NOT a declarative statement.
2. "Why doesn't Theo have the highest ceiling?" Simple. We have eyes. TJ has shown extremely limited basketball skills thus far. GE has displayed many.
3. "Point is nobody has a clue." See #2 (we have eyes). Of course we have clues. GE was the best rebounding guard on the floor last night. He was the best defensive guard on the floor last night. He was the best passing guard on the floor last night. These are all "clues".
So does GE have the highest ceiling on the team? Maybe. Maybe not. As of now, he shows the potential to be, along with Sam, the most skilled player on the team. He has a long way to go, but if you can't see the difference between the current basketball skills of Elliott as compared to Theo, then I probably just wasted 3 minutes typing this.
Quote from: tower912 on November 30, 2017, 10:36:59 AM
FWIW, Buzz's defense did much the same thing. It turns the ballhandler away from the lane, forces him to a side. Then the big recovers to the middle with his hands up and his head on a swivel to prevent the pass to the rolling big. Otule was very good at it. Davante was good at the hedge, less good at the recovery. It is a staple of pick and roll defense. The weak side wing is supposed to drop into the paint to contest the pass to the rolling big man. If the weak side wing is late or too small, or the 5 is too slow at the recovery, you get bigs getting nearly uncontested point blank shots. If the weak side rotation is on time with a large enough defender, you get a possible steal/deflection or at worst a contested shot from a 6'10 offensive player over a 6'7 defensive player. Also, if the defensive 5 is able to retreat in a timely fashion with his hands up, you cut off the pass to the rolling screener.
If done correctly, the point guard must now initiate the offense elsewhere, the few seconds of recovery theoretically being enough for the defensive 5 to drop down and guard the post and the weak side wing to recover out to the offensive wing lurking near the 3 point line. It is a fairly standard defensive scheme. So far, it looks like Matt and Theo are better than Luke was at the recovery to the middle. However, if they are late, and the weak side wing is Markus or Andrew, it is an easy lay up.
Keefe could have answered this question better, but he is far too important to do so.
Thought we played well and liked what i saw from the freshman. Bring on Georgia we got this
Quote from: Jockey on November 30, 2017, 10:49:02 AM
So does GE have the highest ceiling on the team? Maybe. Maybe not. As of now, he shows the potential to be, along with Sam, the most skilled player on the team. He has a long way to go, but if you can't see the difference between the current basketball skills of Elliott as compared to Theo, then I probably just wasted 3 minutes typing this
I think you're spot on so far. I want to think Theo still has big potential, but honestly, it's mostly based on his physical attributes and has nothing to do with what he's done on the floor so far. Just looking at the guy, it's easy to forget that he's just a freshman, but seeing him play, it becomes painfully obvious. As it stands now, I'm kind of hoping he doesn't get much PT once Froling is available. He needs to learn a lot and mature before he's ready to mix it up with the bigs in the conference.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 30, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
I think you're spot on so far. I want to think Theo still has big potential, but honestly, it's mostly based on his physical attributes and has nothing to do with what he's done on the floor so far. Just looking at the guy, it's easy to forget that he's just a freshman, but seeing him play, it becomes painfully obvious. As it stands now, I'm kind of hoping he doesn't get much PT once Froling is available. He needs to learn a lot and mature before he's ready to mix it up with the bigs in the conference.
When Harry becomes available, Theo will be the third option. Doubt we see him much in BE play unless its garbage time.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 30, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
I think you're spot on so far. I want to think Theo still has big potential, but honestly, it's mostly based on his physical attributes and has nothing to do with what he's done on the floor so far. Just looking at the guy, it's easy to forget that he's just a freshman, but seeing him play, it becomes painfully obvious. As it stands now, I'm kind of hoping he doesn't get much PT once Froling is available. He needs to learn a lot and mature before he's ready to mix it up with the bigs in the conference.
I think Theo is way ahead of where Matt was as a freshman, though. But gotta give Matt credit for the improvement to his FT stroke, looks really good. FT's no matter, but I still believe 4 of 5 is better than 3 of 6. #luddite
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 30, 2017, 11:10:09 AM
When Harry becomes available, Theo will be the third option. Doubt we see him much in BE play unless its garbage time.
Theo's muscle and fouls will likely be necessary against some of the strong athletic bigs we will face in conference play. I suspect he'll see some non-garbage minutes on a regular basis.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 30, 2017, 10:43:02 AM
Thanks guys - helpful info for this guy (grew up a hockey player).
So, last year's problems with Luke as well as some of the problems with this year's defensive schemes.....
Last year with Luke, he struggled to recover after the hedge. One thing I noticed from Theo is that after the hedge, he always recovered to his man facing the ball, assuming his man would be down low. Luke would, on a regular basis, turn his back to the ball while he recovered, looking over his shoulder with a hand up. In other words, Luke would struggle to keep an eye on where the ball was.
Also, too often last year, Marquette switched on the high pick and roll. This left Luke guarding a point guard in space and one of MU's miniature guards trying to guard a big rolling to the basket. When the guard went by Luke, the weak side wing was either late or too small to contest. When the inevitable help/collapse came to attempt to stop the drive, the point guard would pass to an open teammate who had started going to the basket through the open space created by the help, leading to a lay up line. It also leads to poor box out responsibilities and MU's tallest player coming late to the defensive boards. Sound familiar?
I hate the switch on the high pick and roll with a slow 5. The switch works if the new defender is Butler/Crowder/Hayward and Blue or DJO is the guard hanging on the rolling big or some other variation where you don't have huge size/speed differentials. Howard/Heldt is a bad combination. Blue/Crowder is a great combination. Elliot/Cain might eventually be a really good combination. Cain appears to have the footwork and footspeed to defend in space and Elliot has the long arms necessary to break up a pass or contest at the rim. Hopefully, we have 4 years to find out.
These are just a couple of defenses against the high pick and roll. IIRC, Buzz said that when Thibs called before the Bulls drafted Butler, they discussed the 6 different ways MU defended the pick and roll. Or maybe Butler was quizzed about it. It all gets foggy after a while.
MU runs the high pick and roll. When the big switches, then you have Markus or Rowsey in space. That is frequently when you see #thething. A big has switched onto Rowsey. He sees a chance to block the shot and he bites, even though the scout says to close with a hand up. Bigs on defense are not graceful near the 3 pt line. Also, when the big hedges and turns Howard or Rowsey, because they are such good 3 pt shooters, instead of them starting the offense again, you will frequently see them fire up the shot as the their initial defender recovers to them. Neither is a great driver or a great passer when they drive, but they do get to the rack because the defense is so cognizant of their 3 point shooting.
Quote from: Jockey on November 30, 2017, 10:49:02 AM
1. "I realize it was Chi-State, but Greg Elliott looked like he had the highest ceiling on the team." is, by definition NOT a declarative statement.
2. "Why doesn't Theo have the highest ceiling?" Simple. We have eyes. TJ has shown extremely limited basketball skills thus far. GE has displayed many.
3. "Point is nobody has a clue." See #2 (we have eyes). Of course we have clues. GE was the best rebounding guard on the floor last night. He was the best defensive guard on the floor last night. He was the best passing guard on the floor last night. These are all "clues".
So does GE have the highest ceiling on the team? Maybe. Maybe not. As of now, he shows the potential to be, along with Sam, the most skilled player on the team. He has a long way to go, but if you can't see the difference between the current basketball skills of Elliott as compared to Theo, then I probably just wasted 3 minutes typing this.
1) Current, agreed.
2) Yes you did.
This is some of the best analysis of our defense I've seen to date. Awesome thread!
Quote from: tower912 on November 30, 2017, 11:16:03 AM
So, last year's problems with Luke as well as some of the problems with this year's defensive schemes.....
Last year with Luke, he struggled to recover after the hedge. One thing I noticed from Theo is that after the hedge, he always recovered to his man facing the ball, assuming his man would be down low. Luke would, on a regular basis, turn his back to the ball while he recovered, looking over his shoulder with a hand up. In other words, Luke would struggle to keep an eye on where the ball was.
Also, too often last year, Marquette switched on the high pick and roll. This left Luke guarding a point guard in space and one of MU's miniature guards trying to guard a big rolling to the basket. When the guard went by Luke, the weak side wing was either late or too small to contest. When the inevitable help/collapse came to attempt to stop the drive, the point guard would pass to an open teammate who had started going to the basket through the open space created by the help, leading to a lay up line. It also leads to poor box out responsibilities and MU's tallest player coming late to the defensive boards. Sound familiar?
I hate the switch on the high pick and roll with a slow 5. The switch works if the new defender is Butler/Crowder/Hayward and Blue or DJO is the guard hanging on the rolling big or some other variation where you don't have huge size/speed differentials. Howard/Heldt is a bad combination. Blue/Crowder is a great combination. Elliot/Cain might eventually be a really good combination. Cain appears to have the footwork and footspeed to defend in space and Elliot has the long arms necessary to break up a pass or contest at the rim. Hopefully, we have 4 years to find out.
These are just a couple of defenses against the high pick and roll. IIRC, Buzz said that when Thibs called before the Bulls drafted Butler, they discussed the 6 different ways MU defended the pick and roll. Or maybe Butler was quizzed about it. It all gets foggy after a while.
MU runs the high pick and roll. When the big switches, then you have Markus or Rowsey in space. That is frequently when you see #thething. A big has switched onto Rowsey. He sees a chance to block the shot and he bites, even though the scout says to close with a hand up. Bigs on defense are not graceful near the 3 pt line. Also, when the big hedges and turns Howard or Rowsey, because they are such good 3 pt shooters, instead of them starting the offense again, you will frequently see them fire up the shot as the their initial defender recovers to them. Neither is a great driver or a great passer when they drive, but they do get to the rack because the defense is so cognizant of their 3 point shooting.
+1
After one open practice, I remember people talking about Dameon Mason as a possible first round pick after his junior year. Oops. I like what I've seen from Elliott. Let's see him develop before we predict him leaving pro early.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 30, 2017, 11:10:15 AM
I think Theo is way ahead of where Matt was as a freshman, though. But gotta give Matt credit for the improvement to his FT stroke, looks really good. FT's no matter, but I still believe 4 of 5 is better than 3 of 6. #luddite
Can someone explain the origin of the free throws no matta thing?
I've never been a fan of the hard hedge by the 5 and Wojo likes to hedge higher and harder than many coaches, but I don't think that is the problem with our defense. The drives and post entry passes come more from the secondary perimeter pass, and it boils down to Rowsey and Howard requiring help that Wojo is not sending.
It seemed last year the off wing would sag to help on the dribble penetration, leaving an open three pt shooter. I think Wojo has made a choice to let the drive happen, try to improve the 3pt defense, and roll the dice around the rim.
Has that worked? Through seven games, our T-Rank ADJDE is 102.1, slightly worse than last year's 101.3.
Only six high major teams (excl. A10 and AAC) have a worse ADJDE than us right now. Small sample size, I know, but still.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on November 30, 2017, 01:14:03 PM
Can someone explain the origin of the free throws no matta thing?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54886.msg964280#msg964280
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54886.msg964194#msg964194
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 29, 2017, 10:42:21 PM
1.Ners could start for Chicago St. and would have been dunking posterizing Matt & Theo
2.Markus is really fun to watch (on offense) when he's on - so is Rowsey.
3.Both play ole' defense on the perimeter, even against cupcakes.
4.Sacar looked solid.
5.If Elliott learns how to shoot and Cain puts on some muscle both could be very good.
6.Sam was invisible on both ends.
7.So was Matt.
8.So was Theo.
9.Cupcakes are yummy.
There
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 30, 2017, 10:51:10 AM
Keefe could have answered this question better, but he is far too important to do so.
Well, he is a god walking the earth while I am merely a civil servant, so it only makes sense.
Quote from: tower912 on November 30, 2017, 01:59:47 PM
Well, he is a god walking the earth while I am merely a civil servant, so it only makes sense.
Are we sure he still walks of the earth? Are we sure he hasn't ascended into heaven?
Quote from: skianth16 on November 30, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
I think you're spot on so far. I want to think Theo still has big potential, but honestly, it's mostly based on his physical attributes and has nothing to do with what he's done on the floor so far. Just looking at the guy, it's easy to forget that he's just a freshman, but seeing him play, it becomes painfully obvious. As it stands now, I'm kind of hoping he doesn't get much PT once Froling is available. He needs to learn a lot and mature before he's ready to mix it up with the bigs in the conference.
With the make up of the roster after Froling is eligible, as well as the possibility that his skill set is akin to Henry's, I would anticipate some two-big sets, particularly against the more physical teams. Theo will continue to get minutes. And probably foul out quickly.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on November 30, 2017, 01:14:03 PM
Can someone explain the origin of the free throws no matta thing?
See Sultan's post for an explanation. As for the origin, I believe Jay Bee coined the phrase a few years back in response Scoop consistently bemoaning Marquette missing free throws at a rate that scoopers deemed unacceptable. The funny thing about that is that Marquette has been an above average free throw shooting team at least since the Dwyane Wade era. The national average for FT% usually overs around 69%. Marquette has only shot below that mark twice in the past 16 seasons, 66.9% in 06-07 and 64.5% in 14-15.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 30, 2017, 02:19:47 PM
See Sultan's post for an explanation. As for the origin, I believe Jay Bee coined the phrase a few years back in response Scoop consistently bemoaning Marquette missing free throws at a rate that scoopers deemed unacceptable. The funny thing about that is that Marquette has been an above average free throw shooting team at least since the Dwyane Wade era. The national average for FT% usually overs around 69%. Marquette has only shot below that mark twice in the past 16 seasons, 66.9% in 06-07 and 64.5% in 14-15.
IIRC, the moaning the led to JB's coining was during the 14-15 season. So at least the timing made a little sense.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 30, 2017, 02:02:48 PM
Are we sure he still walks of the earth? Are we sure he hasn't ascended into heaven?
Or descended?
Quote from: tower912 on November 30, 2017, 01:59:47 PM
Well, he is a god walking the earth while I am merely a civil servant, so it only makes sense.
Lazy firemen sit
No Ivy degrees? Losers!
Watch me swing my dick
Well played.
Watching MSU vs ND right now. High screen and roll, MSU double teams the PG, turns him, big recovers to rolling big. The difference is length among all players for MSU. When the ball beat the recovering big to the rolling big, the weak side wing, who had been just outside the lane, was 6'9 and successfully contested the shot at the rim. Size matters.
Need help from the stat guys out there... For the third straight game, a different MU player had at least 30 points (Rowsey, Hauser, Howard).
When was the last time that happened to a college team? Has it ever happened?
Quote from: mu35577 on November 30, 2017, 07:31:20 PM
Need help from the stat guys out there... For the third straight game, a different MU player had at least 30 points (Rowsey, Hauser, Howard).
When was the last time that happened to a college team? Has it ever happened?
1969-1970 for MU
Honest question, with the personnel MU has how would MU fans like to see MU defend the pick and roll? The point of hedging so far out is to prevent the ball handler from a straight line drive to the basket and to force the ball handler into longer passes to allow the defense more time to rotate accordingly. The weak side, off ball defender can play off his assignment down towards the lane to rotate to the roller while also having time to recover to his man if they make the skip pass to the corner. It also gives the hedging big more time to recover to his man rolling to the basket.
Our 2 starting guards can't stay in front of their man defensively one on one as it is. Should we not hedge and try to see if they can not only play their man one on one, but also fight through a screen and still guard the ball handler? Should we not hedge until the ball handler is within 3 point range, at which point the weak side defender has to sell out on the help with the rolling big and allow an easy skip pass to the corner for a wide open 3 (think Milwaukee Bucks defense)? Should we go under high ball screens and concede an open pull up 3 and then hope Rowsey and Howard can stay in front of their guy one on one if the ball handler doesn't pull up for the open 3 point attempt?
I think with undersized guards and even wings the strategy is the best strategy for the personnel. I'm hoping the rotations can improve and Froling simply adding height, even if he isn't a great defender, will help. And next year I think we'll be solid with more size (Cain with more experience, Bailey, Hauser, Morrow all probably providing more of the weak side help defense rather than guys like Howard/Rowsey off the ball, Sacar, etc. this year).
Quote from: wadesworld on November 30, 2017, 09:16:35 PM
Honest question, with the personnel MU has how would MU fans like to see MU defend the pick and roll? The point of hedging so far out is to prevent the ball handler from a straight line drive to the basket and to force the ball handler into longer passes to allow the defense more time to rotate accordingly. The weak side, off ball defender can play off his assignment down towards the lane to rotate to the roller while also having time to recover to his man if they make the skip pass to the corner. It also gives the hedging big more time to recover to his man rolling to the basket.
Our 2 starting guards can't stay in front of their man defensively one on one as it is. Should we not hedge and try to see if they can not only play their man one on one, but also fight through a screen and still guard the ball handler? Should we not hedge until the ball handler is within 3 point range, at which point the weak side defender has to sell out on the help with the rolling big and allow an easy skip pass to the corner for a wide open 3 (think Milwaukee Bucks defense)? Should we go under high ball screens and concede an open pull up 3 and then hope Rowsey and Howard can stay in front of their guy one on one if the ball handler doesn't pull up for the open 3 point attempt?
I think with undersized guards and even wings the strategy is the best strategy for the personnel. I'm hoping the rotations can improve and Froling simply adding height, even if he isn't a great defender, will help. And next year I think we'll be solid with more size (Cain with more experience, Bailey, Hauser, Morrow all probably providing more of the weak side help defense rather than guys like Howard/Rowsey off the ball, Sacar, etc. this year).
(http://www.basketballforcoaches.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/defense-differences.jpg)
QuoteYou defend, you rebound and you run - that's been the staple of our program,'' Izzo said. ''And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.'
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 30, 2017, 09:23:32 PM
(http://www.basketballforcoaches.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/defense-differences.jpg)
You can't pack line with small guards in college basketball. They'll shoot right over you. And it slows the pace down which isn't going to help the offense.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on December 01, 2017, 08:22:03 AM
You can't pack line with small guards in college basketball. They'll shoot right over you. And it slows the pace down which isn't going to help the offense.
Good defenses are built from the baseline out, not from the half court line in. While this roster is flawed for any defensive scheme, the current scheme gives up the paint for the perimeter. It is brutal. The pack line helps/protects guards who cannot apply on ball pressure to prevent dribble drives and protects the paint for rebounds. Variations can be made to pressure the perimeter situationally.
Throwing our hands up and saying we have small guards who cannot defend on ball so let's pull all our players north of the free throw line is not a scheme built for success with this roster, IMO.
What you say about tempo and offense is true...I just think the scheme is so fundamentally flawed with this make up. That said, Elliott and Cain are better fits for this scheme so I am anxious to see how they do versus UGA with their quickness and length. I suspect UGA will have their way inside overall. I hope to be wrong.
I get what you're saying Dr. B, but I think today's game is becoming increasingly about three point shooting, similar to how the NBA is. I'm not sure they building defenses from the baseline out will be the norm for much longer
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 01, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
I get what you're saying Dr. B, but I think today's game is becoming increasingly about three point shooting, similar to how the NBA is. I'm not sure they building defenses from the baseline out will be the norm for much longer
I agree with this.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 01, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
I get what you're saying Dr. B, but I think today's game is becoming increasingly about three point shooting, similar to how the NBA is. I'm not sure they building defenses from the baseline out will be the norm for much longer
Please provide a college team who does this successfully? I can't think of one. Is Duke the poster child? Even Collins and Brey have moved on from K, and even K is playing zone.
I think MSU has a damn good defense this year...same with Nova. They protect the paint and extend the pressure. Won't even mention Bucky...
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 01, 2017, 09:46:08 AM
Please provide a college team who does this successfully? I can't think of one. Is Duke the poster child? Even Collins and Brey have moved on from K, and even K is playing zone.
I think MSU has a damn good defense this year...same with Nova. They protect the paint and extend the pressure. Won't even mention Bucky...
Not saying its being done now. And I honestly don't know enough about individual team defenses to know how they are constructed. I just think we are going to see college slowly becoming more and more perimeter oriented like the NBA has.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 01, 2017, 12:04:06 PM
Not saying its being done now. And I honestly don't know enough about individual team defenses to know how they are constructed. I just think we are going to see college slowly becoming more and more perimeter oriented like the NBA has.
Thanks. I conceptually get it but I think until the NCAA shot clock is significantly lowered, this won't be successful.
Obviously, this is the Duke scheme without the Duke recruits, and it needs athletic switchables. K even running from it with his young team and going to zone based on principles Jimmy B taught him in USA Basketball, I heard.
In any regard, it is with us.
Quote from: bilsu on November 30, 2017, 07:52:22 AM
I love the freshmen and Haani leaving gives them more opportunity to play, so that is a silver lining. However, this team without Froling is going to be punished in the Big East. Hopefully, Froling is a big difference maker.
Quote from: bilsu on November 17, 2017, 04:25:32 PM
He really needs to sign four star recruits. Five stars are nice, but they tend to leave early.
An occasional 3 star is okay, but a class of four three stars is asking for future failure.