According to www.kenpom.com, only these 8 teams are worse at stopping 2-pointers than Marquette. Our opponents are hitting 59.8% of all 2-pointers taken,
The Citadel SC 64
Furman SC 63.3
Texas A&M Corpus Chris Slnd 62.5
Mount St. Mary's NEC 61.4
Tennessee St. OVC 60.9
Southern Utah BSky 60.7
Northern Arizona BSky 60.6
Samford SC 60.4
Marquette BE 59.8
We really don't stop much - 2s or 3s. Our defense is AWOL. We have very little of it after 3 plus years.
Quote from: Daniel on November 27, 2017, 11:22:29 PM
We really don't stop much - 2s or 3s. Our defense is AWOL. We have very little of it after 3 plus years.
Sad and really hard to believe
Someone with a KP subscription could probably tell you more but I think we have been decent at defending the three. Check out our 3P defense in each game compared to the opponents season average:
MSM: 25% on 25 attempts vs. 29.3% on 31.4 attempts per game
PUR: 33.3% on 12 attempts vs. 44% on 23.7 attempts per game
VCU: 38.5% on 26 attempts vs. 38.3% on 23.5 attempts per game
WSU: 31.6% on 19 attempts vs. 36% on 20.4 attempts per game
LSU: 31.8% on 22 attempts 37.5% on 20.8 attempts per game
EIU: 31.6% on 19 attempts vs. 38% on 21.6 attempts per game
So we held opponents to a lower 3P% in every game except for one....which they exceeded their average by .02 %. We also held 4/6 opponents to less attempts from outside than they typically average.
Too small of a sample size to be definitive, but it tells me that our three point defense is better this season, which is key in today's game that values outside shooting. Theoretically this could work with our offense. You score two, we'll score three. But the 2 point defense is embarrassing. That has to be fixed if we ever hope to be a ranked team again.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 28, 2017, 12:57:24 AM
Someone with a KP subscription could probably tell you more but I think we have been decent at defending the three. Check out our 3P defense in each game compared to the opponents season average:
MSM: 25% on 25 attempts vs. 29.3% on 31.4 attempts per game
PUR: 33.3% on 12 attempts vs. 44% on 23.7 attempts per game
VCU: 38.5% on 26 attempts vs. 38.3% on 23.5 attempts per game
WSU: 31.6% on 19 attempts vs. 36% on 20.4 attempts per game
LSU: 31.8% on 22 attempts 37.5% on 20.8 attempts per game
EIU: 31.6% on 19 attempts vs. 38% on 21.6 attempts per game
So we held opponents to a lower 3P% in every game except for one....which they exceeded their average by .02 %. We also held 4/6 opponents to less attempts from outside than they typically average.
Too small of a sample size to be definitive, but it tells me that our three point defense is better this season, which is key in today's game that values outside shooting. Theoretically this could work with our offense. You score two, we'll score three. But the 2 point defense is embarrassing. That has to be fixed if we ever hope to be a ranked team again.
MU is #101 in defending the three. Mediocre.
Honestly, this was stated a point of emphasis of the coaching staff who stresses accountability. Four years in, and there are glaring issues with this scheme. No excuses about it.
On the other hand, this offense is really fun and exciting.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 28, 2017, 01:14:46 AM
MU is #101 in defending the three. Mediocre.
Honestly, this was stated a point of emphasis of the coaching staff who stresses accountability. Four years in, and there are glaring issues with this scheme. No excuses about it.
I think that's a bit unfair. MU was #274 defending the three last year. Much better this year. It's the 2pt defense that's killing us, #343 (worse than last year #225). Despite all this, our overall defense so far is marginally better at #137 vs #165. There's a the chance that Heldt and John improve, and Froling helps all those numbers.
They are small and by and large slow footed on the perimeter and don't have a true rim protecting post player who can't stay out of foul trouble. The quicker perimeter defenders aren't great offensive players and/or are still lacking in strength. The outcome is predictable.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 28, 2017, 08:09:16 AM
They are small and by and large slow footed on the perimeter and don't have a true rim protecting post player who can't stay out of foul trouble. The quicker perimeter defenders aren't great offensive players and/or are still lacking in strength. The outcome is predictable.
So, MU doesn't have the players to fit the scheme.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 28, 2017, 08:15:16 AM
So, MU doesn't have the players to fit the scheme.
Clearly. Although I am not convinced that scheme is the issue. Sure they could pack it in, but would that create more 3 point opportunities? What does that do to their offense?
Comparing our current rankings to the season total last year is probably a bit misleading. Our OOC schedule is better than usual this year, but it still doesn't compare to the Big East level of competition. And this is probably true for other schools around the country as well. That stats we're seeing in November are probably not all that indicative of what we'll see all year long.
Looking at the fact that we're one of the worst teams at defending the 2 is a big point of concern, though. If we're allowing 60% of 2 pt shots to fall, we're going to get slaughtered against high level players with solid coaching in conference. Wojo and crew really, really need to buckle down on defensive game planning. Last night was embarrassing.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 28, 2017, 08:32:31 AM
Comparing our current rankings to the season total last year is probably a bit misleading. Our OOC schedule is better than usual this year, but it still doesn't compare to the Big East level of competition. And this is probably true for other schools around the country as well. That stats we're seeing in November are probably not all that indicative of what we'll see all year long.
Looking at the fact that we're one of the worst teams at defending the 2 is a big point of concern, though. If we're allowing 60% of 2 pt shots to fall, we're going to get slaughtered against high level players with solid coaching in conference. Wojo and crew really, really need to buckle down on defensive game planning. Last night was embarrassing.
Those numbers adjust for the strength of your opponent. It doesn't matter which team played the tougher schedule
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 28, 2017, 08:15:16 AM
So, MU doesn't have the players to fit the scheme.
In year
four. This is a problem. Adjust the scheme. Coaches need to adapt to the talent on-hand, no? I mean, that's what coaching is about.
All the other team needs to do is run a pick and roll with whoever Heldt is defending. For some reason the defensive strategy is to have Heldt hedge hard every time. Heldt is painfully slow, so it takes him forever to recover from the hedge. This puts everyone else out of position as they need to help on the roll too long, and it's usually one easy pass for an open shot. Theo John needs to play more. While his foul rate is high, he is a much quicker and stronger defender. He can't be any worse on the offensive end either.
I need to check but I'm pretty sure we're defending the pick and roll well this season, at least compared to last season. I think where we've struggled is on isos, putbacks and post ups. I'll check synergy later
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 28, 2017, 10:07:00 AM
I need to check but I'm pretty sure we're defending the pick and roll well this season, at least compared to last season. I think where we've struggled is on isos, putbacks and post ups. I'll check synergy later
Does synergy account for putbacks that were made possible because the rolling player on the pick and roll has better position for the offensive rebound because his defender hedged the screen so aggressively? I've been noticing this some the past few games where Heldt does a decent enough job getting back to his man, but his man is still in a better rebounding position than Heldt.
Playing two undersized guards, neither is really quick, a center slow afoot, Sam is not quick laterally, and at the 3, there all tiny. What do you expect. I expect Wojo
to recruit bigger players, that might help. Even next year, where is Sam playing as Morrow will start. Sam will be the 3 but he is better going against centers who do
not come out of the paint or a 4 that is slower than him. It will be interesting.
Bring in a veteran assistant TODAY. Start over with a new scheme on defense.
https://jmusports.com/coaches.aspx?rc=559&path=mbball
Ooh, it even has his phone number. Let's give him a jingle.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 28, 2017, 10:29:12 AM
Bring in a veteran assistant TODAY. Start over with a new scheme on defense.
https://jmusports.com/coaches.aspx?rc=559&path=mbball
Ooh, it even has his phone number. Let's give him a jingle.
He retired after last year. Which means he's available. But it also means the phone number isn't good.
BTW, to verify this, I went to his Wikipedia page and found this rather sad entry: "He also recruited Dwyane Wade at Marquette, but left the program a year before Wade came to Marquette."
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 28, 2017, 10:29:12 AM
Bring in a veteran assistant TODAY. Start over with a new scheme on defense.
https://jmusports.com/coaches.aspx?rc=559&path=mbball
Ooh, it even has his phone number. Let's give him a jingle.
Bring him Crean and KO in and then schedule a game against V Tech?
Quote from: NYWarrior on November 28, 2017, 09:33:47 AM
In year four. This is a problem. Adjust the scheme. Coaches need to adapt to the talent on-hand, no? I mean, that's what coaching is about.
this is my thought...it looks to me like they are running duke's defense without the length and athleticism of duke...and it hasn't worked for four years. all that said...i don't know enough to know what that would look like to the program. does it mean the offense slows down? slower pace = same amount of losses for different reasons? recruiting to play that style is difficult, and you're selling kids on a style that you'd like to run in the future vs. what they see now. there are a lot of things i can change for the positive in my profession, but i also know that those changes are going to have negative consequences in other areas that are going to result in a net loss.
i LOVE winning, and have a great respect for the TB at UVA from a pure fundamental basketball approach, but that UVA/UW game was even difficult for me to watch.
Look at the company we're in! Tennessee St. Coppin State, Mother Mary or the poor. What a disgrace. This is year 4 and the squad still can't play a lick of defense. Teams go into games with Marquette knowing they'll be able to score at will, especially in the paint. There's no excuse for that, especially in year 4 of your tenure. The "rebuilding" excuse is OVA...
Come on, Wojo. What the hell is going on......
Quote from: Al Davis on November 28, 2017, 10:41:51 AM
Look at the company we're in! Tennessee St. Coppin State, Mother Mary or the poor. What a disgrace. This is year 4 and the squad still can't play a lick of defense. Teams go into games with Marquette knowing they'll be able to score at will, especially in the paint. There's no excuse for that, especially in year 4 of your tenure. The "rebuilding" excuse is OVA...
Come on, Wojo. What the hell is going on......
Imagine what the numbers would be if they included the Lindenwood debacle.
I hate to rile folks up more but last night was our second best 2FG% defensive game of the year. Only the VCU game was better defending the paint.
We got that going for us.
Playing Howard and Rowsey at the same time is a defensive nightmare. Especially with this scheme. This is where losing HC will hurt the most. They will have to be on the floor together almost constantly now.
When we hired Wojo, my first thought was that at least we'd learn to play solid D.
On second thought....
The weaknesses have been covered here. A lot of it is related to limitations of the personnel. Some of it is scheme.
Howard and Rowsey are small and have trouble keeping their man in front of them but they need to be on the floor for their offense. How can we hid their shortcomings?
Sam seems to be ok defensively but I don't see him as a difference maker on that side of the floor. And obviously he needs to play big minutes as well.
Heldt has size but he's not particularly mobile and isn't much of a rim protector. I'm sure Froling will help as another large body but I don't think he has a reputation as a rim protector. If Theo can stay on the floor and improve as the season goes on that will help.
I think Sacar has some potential defensively. I thought he looked pretty good at times last night but just had some pretty tough shots hit against him This is an area where will miss HC on the wing.
Elliott clearly has length and wants to play defense. I think he can be a stopper as soon as next year. Cain has potential as well. They both need to get stronger. However, you can't really expect too much from freshman on the defensive end.
So what do we do to hide our deficiencies to at least try to improve a bit?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 28, 2017, 06:39:31 AM
I think that's a bit unfair. MU was #274 defending the three last year. Much better this year. It's the 2pt defense that's killing us, #343 (worse than last year #225). Despite all this, our overall defense so far is marginally better at #137 vs #165. There's a the chance that Heldt and John improve, and Froling helps all those numbers.
Plus Cain & Elliott are long, athletic, and have the highest steals rates on the team by a decent margin. Thier increased PT should help on top of what you noted.
MU has crossed the Mendoza Line on defense. Now #158 in overall defense (KPom), despite a pretty good effort today versus UGA. Just continue to get killed in the paint.
I remember when a former coach use to talk about "Turkeys". I don't know if this team has had one all year.