1. Sam showed up. Which knucklehead here said that he wasn't that good when he had a bad game due to foul trouble? Non-existent credibility further shot.
2. Howard and Rowsey, not so much. Sleep walked. When Rowsey is missing free throws.... And traveling all over the place. And throwing the ball away......
3. EIU had the best big, Dama it. 6 offensive rebounds in the second half.
4. I liked what I saw from Cain and Elliot. Going to need more. But for the most part, they stepped up to the challenge. We did see the difference between senior strength and freshman strength in overtime. But Elliot kept fighting.
5. Haanif would have made a difference, in my opinion. And Traci. And Duane. And Sandy for that matter,
6. I posted a version of this during the game in the chat. It still sums up my feeling. Indifferent defense, indifferent defensive rebounding, indifferent passing, indifferent about getting to the rack.
7. This isn't the end of the stink. So young, so small, so inexperienced.
8. And then the overtime happened. And there was some redemption for Howard and Rowsey.
9. Phantom foul on Sam. And then hack a frosh.
10. In the end, Marquette did not deserve to win the game tonight. But a ridiculously ugly win is better than a loss.
A loss combined with listening to Simpkins for 2+ hours would have been unbearable. Phew.
Dama's foul trouble fouling out was the difference. We made our first half run when he sat with foul trouble and we pulled it out after he fouled out.
Of course, that should not be the difference against a team like EIU. We look to be a solid step back from last year. Same defensive woes and not quite the same offense.
EIU concentrated on taking 3s away from Rowsey and Howard. Good things tend to happen when Howard drives, Rousey not so much.
Complete diaster diverted. Good for the guys to make a comeback like that, brings them together, they were really pumped up at end of game.
EIU losing that guy Dama in first half to fouls and then fouling out hurt them. He is great, where does a guy like that come from.
Good to see freshmen get the playing time, especially Elliott now that HC is gone.
Interior defense is brutal, don't know whats going to happen when Seton Hall with Delgado, Rodriguez and Sanago come to town.
Too much turkey, too much vacation. They came out flat and were lucky to get the W. I'm guessing that losing Haney today threw them all off, and left a big hole in their game plan. But they never really found a rhythm.
I'm trying to console myself for the poor play by watching Wisconsin lose to Virginia.
Regarding #5, sure would be nice to have 16 schollies.
This game was brutal. We should have lost. Our defense is abysmal. Move onto to Chicago State and just forget about this game.
Looks like Dama is a JUCO in his second year of D1 play. Too bad. Was thinking Wojo should slip him his card (even though front court is less of a concern moving forward).
We don't win w/o Sam. Heldt can't jump or defend. GE could be pretty good, but we need a PG and some interior D pronto.
Phew
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 27, 2017, 09:17:58 PM
A loss combined with listening to Simpkins for 2+ hours would have been unbearable. Phew.
About midway through the second half, Eastern was bringing the ball up the floor and Dickey said something along the lines of, "and now the key for Marquette here is defense, and then they have to score on the offensive end."
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 27, 2017, 09:17:58 PM
A loss combined with listening to Simpkins for 2+ hours would have been unbearable. Phew.
About midway through the second half, Eastern was bringing the ball up the floor and Dickey said something along the lines of, "and now the key for Marquette here is defense, and then they have to score on the offensive end."
Quote from: MUFlutieEffect on November 27, 2017, 09:27:43 PM
About midway through the second half, Eastern was bringing the ball up the floor and Dickey said something along the lines of, "and now the key for Marquette here is defense, and then they have to score on the offensive end."
He's a basketball savant.
The timing of HC leaving not only throws the team out of whack game wise but mentally also. I was worried about the game once the announcement was made. Question is can we ride the storm until Froling is elegible? Going to be tough.
With the youth of this team and the live by the 3 persona that we have there are going to be games like this , we Won!!!
All Ws should be celebrated, they are not easy to come by.
Don't think we are a tourney team this year
Pulled that one out of the same place my last sales forecast came from.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 27, 2017, 09:33:41 PM
The timing of HC leaving not only throws the team out of whack game wise but mentally also. I was worried about the game once the announcement was made. Question is can we ride the storm until Froling is elegible? Going to be tough.
You're absolutely right that the Haanif situation affected the team emotionally, and it showed. If I had to guess, Haanif went home after Maui for Thanksgiving and just never came back, which explains the first-thing Monday timing. For the team to find out a few hours before the game is brutal.
Fortunately, we have another game to get things figured out before Georgia. I expect us to come out reinvigorated on Wednesday night.
Haanif was on campus today. Might have been to clean up his stuff (more than Katin did) but he definitely came back after the break
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on November 27, 2017, 09:48:26 PM
Don't think we are a tourney team this year
Team Bubble Watch. We're gonna drop some games we should win, but with our shooters, will win a few we shouldn't. Leaving us biting our nails on Selection Sunday.
Rowsey looked like he did the century club or Edward 40 hands the night before... not good. Worst game I've seen him play. I hope he is smarter than I was in college when getting ready for an athletic event. drinking 16 beers the night before doesn't translate well
Take this WIN and run for the hills. Get Chicago State on Wed and I'll forget all about this
Quote from: MUFlutieEffect on November 27, 2017, 09:29:22 PM
About midway through the second half, Eastern was bringing the ball up the floor and Dickey said something along the lines of, "and now the key for Marquette here is defense, and then they have to score on the offensive end."
That was one of his more insightful comments. And especially noteworthy as it would have been grammatically correct.
A win is a win, one day to prep for chi state and get better
I go for small victories - anytime Simpkins speaks without saying "hashtag" is a win.
The georgia and vermont games are going to be key
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzt4X83FaXOQ-DTjmCqaOCjoz7MitJ0LxmSysvzpbAFjZIUtfgtg)
I'm liked what I saw from Elliott. We need someone who can get to the basket. Otherwise our offense is just a bunch of ball screens to set up a 3. Hopefully Anim can provide some slashing too.
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on November 27, 2017, 10:06:34 PM
The georgia and vermont games are going to be key
UGa could be rough. They beat St. Mary's the other day....
Quote from: LoudMouth on November 27, 2017, 09:55:32 PM
Haanif was on campus today. Might have been to clean up his stuff (more than Katin did) but he definitely came back after the break
Katin left his stuff on campus?
Rough night.
We almost got our arses handed to us by a directional school ... Dickey was beyond annoying with his gibberish (my wife calls him Dr. Hibbert - which fits, if you listen to how he laughs) ... FS1 kept showing that disgusting Subway Corned Beef sammich commercial during every time-out ... and my dog had the farts.
Still ... when the committee looks back on this 3 1/2 months from now, it will look like just another W.
I just hope it's not the CBI committee!
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 27, 2017, 09:42:44 PM
With the youth of this team and the live by the 3 persona that we have there are going to be games like this , we Won!!!
All Ws should be celebrated, they are not easy to come by.
Absolutely, and those saying we didn't deserve to win, so does that mean the other team should? If so why didn't they?
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 27, 2017, 10:15:09 PM
Katin left his stuff on campus?
Oh yeah, didn't even return to campus after we lost in the tournament. Had some of his stuff shipped to him. Didn't even care to get any of it. His room was left a dump that the athletic department had to pay for to clean
Quote from: LoudMouth on November 27, 2017, 10:20:19 PM
Oh yeah, didn't even return to campus after we lost in the tournament. Had some of his stuff shipped to him. Didn't even care to get any of it. His room was left a dump that the athletic department had to pay for to clean
I mean, he didn't come here to play school.
- Elliott looks like the second coming of Wade on the defensive end. The quickness, length, and shot-blocking is impressive. On the other end he has a long way to go.
- Hauser kept us alive repeatedly then iced it.
- We really misses Luke tonight. No low post threat whatsoever.
- Theo was screening and NOT GETTING CALLED FOR FOULS!
- 2-point defense again a concern. Their size and driving (excluding #2) was problematic.
- Credit to EIU, they just would not go away.
- Appreciated the Elliott and Rowsey fouls with under 3 seconds. Good situational decisions.
- Cain will be a player. Wasn't great tonight, but he has so much raw athleticism and rebounding ability.
- Anim is not Cheatham. Minimal threat from three and the line.
- Take the win and run. It's better than losing to Green Bay.
Quote from: LoudMouth on November 27, 2017, 10:20:19 PM
Oh yeah, didn't even return to campus after we lost in the tournament. Had some of his stuff shipped to him. Didn't even care to get any of it. His room was left a dump that the athletic department had to pay for to clean
Shrug.
Eastern Illinois is more athletic than MU. They can't shoot like us (few teams can), but their good players are much more athletic than ours. Skinny, small and slow doesn't give you much margin for error even against a below average Ohio Valley team.
I think the whole team was playing a little lightheaded after one look at the smoldering good looks of the rugged Coach Spoonhour. (wish I had a game pic)
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2017, 10:23:37 PM
- Credit to EIU, they just would not go away.
This. Starks made some circus shots. Didn't seen any break went MUs way. EIU did everything they needed to get a W.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2017, 10:23:37 PM
- Elliott looks like the second coming of Wade on the defensive end. The quickness, length, and shot-blocking is impressive. On the other end he has a long way to go.
- Hauser kept us alive repeatedly then iced it.
- We really misses Luke tonight. No low post threat whatsoever.
- Theo was screening and NOT GETTING CALLED FOR FOULS!
- 2-point defense again a concern. Their size and driving (excluding #2) was problematic.
- Credit to EIU, they just would not go away.
- Appreciated the Elliott and Rowsey fouls with under 3 seconds. Good situational decisions.
- Cain will be a player. Wasn't great tonight, but he has so much raw athleticism and rebounding ability.
- Anim is not Cheatham. Minimal threat from three and the line.
- Take the win and run. It's better than losing to Green Bay.
Heldt looked lost again. This time, completely schooled by a center from a directional college. He has one decent game but then mediocre and/or bad games. He even went back to setting moving screens.
I really liked the Elliott foul. I was less fond of Rowsey's. Very close to being act-of-shooting. You have a 3-point lead; if the guy throws in a running 50-footer, you live with it and go to a second OT. Still, it worked out ... so what do I know?
Elliott was the defenisve stud, love this kid's potential. Big east opponents are going to hate him for years. His offense isn't there yet. When it is, he will be a game changer.
I also liked what I saw from Cain. Solid defense, good rebounding, hit the corner three. It seems like the game is a little too fast for him at the moment. He'll get there and I think he could be a stud as soon as sophomore year.
As bad as Howard and Rowsey were shooting the ball, I don't think there were too many forced shots. They all seemed open and in rhythm but they couldn't buy one tonight. The only forced shot I remember from the two of them was the one Rowsey made.
Glad Haanif left with a row of cupcakes coming up. I think coaches and team are still figuring out what life after Haanie looks like. Harry can't get here soon enough. I do not feel comfortable with only three scholarship players on the bench.
Theo looked out of sorts all night. With the size advantage he should have been able to make something happen.
Phantom foul on Hauser and what should have been an intentional foul on Elliott nearly "cost" us the game. I mean there were a million more significant reasons we would have lost the game, but those fouls were bad.
Twice Heldt backed down a defender and both times three Panthers swarmed him. He's gotta learn to kick out from the post. He got outmuscled a lot on the boards tonight.
Tonight we saw what I hope is this team's floor. I don't think we've seen it's ceiling yet.
Take the win and run. All the tournament committee will remember is that we got a W. Doesn't matter how.
Quote from: AZWarrior on November 27, 2017, 09:57:20 PM
That was one of his more insightful comments. And especially noteworthy as it would have been grammatically correct.
My personal favorite, said multiple times so it was not slip-up - "Hauser and Rowsey stepped up in the critical."
The part of the game I saw led to a couple of thoughts:
1) We won because we were generally deeper and had more talent. We wore them down.
2) It seemed as if with about 5 minutes left in the second half, someone woke up and said, "we are losing to an Illinois Directional... We are Marquette. We don't lose to Illinois Directionals!"
3) We played well when it mattered. We'll never get away with a game like this against our peer schools.
4) Nice to see our freshmen contribute.
5) Heldt is still a Craig Butrym in a Jerome Whitehead world. He works hard and I'm sure he's a great young man. But he's not the answer at center if we expect to consistently win in the Big East.
6) The Cheatham announcement had to have an effect on he team. It just did. I'm sure having a starter leave out of the blue was more than most people expected. Remember, these are 18-22 year old men. They're probably not used to this happening quite this way.
7) Take the victory and run... and I mean run.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2017, 09:15:24 PM
5. Haanif would have made a difference, in my opinion. And Traci. And Duane. And Sandy for that matter,
Let's not get carried away. If we are ever in a situation that Sandy would have made a difference in a game, we are in trouble.
If our defense does not impress very dramatically ( and there is no reason to think it will), we will get taken apart by teams with good inside play. We have players running all over the place, double-teaming guys with rarely causing a turnover and almost always allowng the double-teamed guy to pass the ball to the open man for a clean drive or shot.
What can be done?
Would be interesting to see what the numbers on the defensive end are when Rowsey and Howard are on the court together compared to when they are not.
Quote from: MU82 on November 27, 2017, 10:30:25 PM
Heldt looked lost again. This time, completely schooled by a center from a directional college. He has one decent game but then mediocre and/or bad games. He even went back to setting moving screens.
I really liked the Elliott foul. I was less fond of Rowsey's. Very close to being act-of-shooting. You have a 3-point lead; if the guy throws in a running 50-footer, you live with it and go to a second OT. Still, it worked out ... so what do I know?
Who was the genius who said Matt was better than Fischer? Harry can't get eligible soon enough!
Theo John is already better than Heldt. He moves his feet so well when he hedges screens and/or switches the pick-n-roll. Has a lot to learn when it comes to fouling but seems like he's improving. He's a better rim protector, a better offensive player, a better rebounder and a better defender. He needs more minutes ASAP.
Elliot is a gamer. When he puts on 15-25 lbs he's going to be a force in the big east.
I'm starting to think this team might be better without Rowsey playing big minutes. He's a chucker with no feel for when he should be shooting and he forces us to play unbelievably small defensively. If one or two Elliot/Sacar/Cain/Anim can hit some open 3s that other create for them, we can play a much more athletic defensive team.
EIU had some real gamers.
Sam Hauser. Wow. This kid is an absolute stud. It's too bad he lacks either 4-5 inches or more raw athleticism cause he'd be a damn find nba player.
The guys did not play that well last night. I wonder with a team mate leaving, for whatever reason, can it affect the team?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2017, 10:23:37 PM
- Anim is not Cheatham. Minimal threat from three and the line.
It's not as though HC was posting much more than average numbers from and behind the lines... granted it's a small sample size, but 4 for 7 doesn't look too different from 7 for 11 (FTs), and 1 for 8 is a mini-streak from 5 for 13 (3PT). Honestly, looking at their statlines, I don't see much of a difference except offensive rebounds, where Sacar has a modest advantage (although 30% of that difference came on one play where he didn't convert.)
It will be interesting to see what effect HC's departure has on certain players as the team finds its post-HC groove.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 27, 2017, 10:57:22 PM
6) The Cheatham announcement had to have an effect on he team. It just did. I'm sure having a starter leave out of the blue was more than most people expected. Remember, these are 18-22 year old men. They're probably not used to this happening quite this way.
7) Take the victory and run... and I mean run.
On 6) I was thinking the same. It obviously affected the team deeply. Th news must have been a shock and they were trying to figure out how to adjust.
8) They looked like they were on Thanksgiving break still! The tryptophan from the turkey had them all dragging.
Maui Hangover. It happens
Dr. Blackheart
Do agree there could be the Maui Hangover in play here. That said, they are not good enough to a have trap game, Maui Hangover or any other thing that good teams can afford to let happen.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 28, 2017, 06:10:14 AM
The guys did not play that well last night. I wonder with a team mate leaving, for whatever reason, can it affect the team?
After listening to Chris Carawell before the game—he essentially said beware of the Maui hangover. He said he doesn't understand it completely, but he knows it's real. He also said EIU are very scrappy and can play. Seemed to be correct on both accounts.
Elliott really showed a lot. But the defensive play he made after missing the 2 FTs was probably the play of the game for me. For a freshman to miss two free throws that would have extended the lead to 3, to immediate man up and stone the other team's scorer without fouling was incredible. I absolutely expected him to end up fouling him.
Also, his drive and finish in OT off the feed from Hauser was great. He still has a ton of work to do offensively, but that was a great finish after losing control of the ball at first.
Quote from: Goose on November 28, 2017, 11:00:50 AM
Dr. Blackheart
Do agree there could be the Maui Hangover in play here. That said, they are not good enough to a have trap game, Maui Hangover or any other thing that good teams can afford to let happen.
Goose,
My position is well known and discussed here over the last 4 seasons. MU wasted too much time and resources cycling through the coach transition. Carolyn's approach to a rebuild was the way to go.
That said, we are in Year 2 in my mind of the Wojo rebuild. This year is about next year. We will be in the lower quarter of the Big East. We will be abused at times and make a lot of rookie mistakes, but we have some talent here and more coming. Haanif leaving just accelerated development and opens up a spot for a PG.
MU played well in Maui. OOC will be rough but the Georgia game will be a nice test. The Frosh have a lot of potential and are a ways away. Our defensive scheme, though....