not much good has come, predictably so, from the legalization of pot. i've been arguing this from day one. all it did was ADD to our social problems-the ones we know of anyway. who knows the exact cost to society, but all of the promises or arguments put forth by the pro-pot alse-what a surprise?
http://gazette.com/editorial-the-sad-anniversary-of-big-commercial-pot-in-colorado/article/1614900
You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Quote from: WI inferiority Complexes on November 17, 2017, 09:06:51 AM
You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Seriously? What kind of response is that? An article cites empirical evidence that for just one moment let's assume is factually correct. And that's your answer?
Now I'm not one to support criminalization of pot but perhaps, just perhaps, the full legalization wasn't the best idea. I don't know. But I'll try to learn over time. Thanks for the article rocket.
It says 'editorial' in the link. Ergo, an opinion. They are entitled to.
Quote from: tower912 on November 17, 2017, 10:52:35 AM
It says 'editorial' in the link. Ergo, an opinion. They are entitled to.
Good point tower. I had not seen that.
Quote from: jsglow on November 17, 2017, 10:51:26 AM
Seriously? What kind of response is that? An article cites empirical evidence that for just one moment let's assume is factually correct. And that's your answer?
Now I'm not one to support criminalization of pot but perhaps, just perhaps, the full legalization wasn't the best idea. I don't know. But I'll try to learn over time. Thanks for the article rocket.
thanks glow-i'm just saying, as states such as wisconsin are considering legalizing pot, wouldn't one(the voters) want to see how this is going in other states that have legalized it and have some data(5 years for colorado) to draw upon. now if we are to make some good decisions re: legalization, this is what we have to look forward to? yeah, let's have some of this? some of the information in this article is "based on research by the pro-legalization Denver Post."
tower-yes it is an editorial, but to call it an opinion, i think would be a stretch-there are facts backed up by statistics. unless someone can refute them, this is more than i knew yesterday, and certainly hasn't changed my mind about legalization. frankly legalization scares the chit out of me
i was and believe i still am a blast at parties, just different frame of mind ;)
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 11:50:33 AM
thanks glow-i'm just saying, as states such as wisconsin are considering legalizing pot, wouldn't one(the voters) want to see how this is going in other states that have legalized it and have some data(5 years for colorado) to draw upon. now if we are to make some good decisions re: legalization, this is what we have to look forward to? yeah, let's have some of this? some of the information in this article is "based on research by the pro-legalization Denver Post."
tower-yes it is an editorial, but to call it an opinion, i think would be a stretch-there are facts backed up by statistics. unless someone can refute them, this is more than i knew yesterday, and certainly hasn't changed my mind about legalization. frankly legalization scares the chit out of me
i was and believe i still am a blast at parties, just different frame of mind ;)
Are you pro-alcohol? Alcohol is certainly responsible for a lot of society's ills.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 11:50:33 AM
thanks glow-i'm just saying, as states such as wisconsin are considering legalizing pot, wouldn't one(the voters) want to see how this is going in other states that have legalized it and have some data(5 years for colorado) to draw upon. now if we are to make some good decisions re: legalization, this is what we have to look forward to? yeah, let's have some of this? some of the information in this article is "based on research by the pro-legalization Denver Post."
tower-yes it is an editorial, but to call it an opinion, i think would be a stretch-there are facts backed up by statistics. unless someone can refute them, this is more than i knew yesterday, and certainly hasn't changed my mind about legalization. frankly legalization scares the chit out of me
i was and believe i still am a blast at parties, just different frame of mind ;)
First off, the editorial misstates their quotes of research which makes me question who is driving this for the editorial board. Here is the easy example of why what they are trying to say needs to be questions.
The editorial says: "An investigation by Education News Colorado, Solutions and the I-News Network shows drug violations reported by Colorado's K-12 schools have increased 45 percent in the past four years, even as the combined number of all other violations has fallen," explains an expose on escalating pot use in schools by Rocky Mountain PBS in late 2016."
What they don't say is that the research they're quoting is not from 2012-2016 but rather took place from 2007-08 and 2010-11 school year. The research they are quoting originally ended in 2012 and was updated in 2016. Here is a link to the article: http://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/under-siege-marijuana-and-colorado-schools/ (http://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/under-siege-marijuana-and-colorado-schools/)
So most of this study took place BEFORE legal weed even became for sale in CO.
This editorial is a total hack job with a political (and most likely business) slant using a leading argument of half stated research to spin an agenda.
This was just the first fact check I did by doing a Google search for their quotes but I am sure there are other dubiously stated items in this piece.
Not impressed with the research cited in this opinion piece at all.
I'm not saying there might not be problems; I'm just saying that given what we actually know right now, there is no proof yet. Not enough time has passed.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 17, 2017, 12:02:23 PM
Are you pro-alcohol? Alcohol is certainly responsible for a lot of society's ills.
That was my thought. You could swap alcohol for pot in any of those statistics. I expected research and evidence towards it being a "gateway drug" or something else much more damning.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 17, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
I expected research and evidence towards it being a "gateway drug" or something else much more damning.
Nah, the pharmaceutical companies have that market cornered these days.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 08:34:47 AM
not much good has come, predictably so, from the legalization of pot. i've been arguing this from day one. all it did was ADD to our social problems-the ones we know of anyway. who knows the exact cost to society, but all of the promises or arguments put forth by the pro-pot alse-what a surprise?
http://gazette.com/editorial-the-sad-anniversary-of-big-commercial-pot-in-colorado/article/1614900
This seems good
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-colorado-marijuana-industry-20161031-story.html
Quote from: Chili on November 17, 2017, 12:33:30 PM
First off, the editorial misstates their quotes of research which makes me question who is driving this for the editorial board. Here is the easy example of why what they are trying to say needs to be questions.
The editorial says: "An investigation by Education News Colorado, Solutions and the I-News Network shows drug violations reported by Colorado's K-12 schools have increased 45 percent in the past four years, even as the combined number of all other violations has fallen," explains an expose on escalating pot use in schools by Rocky Mountain PBS in late 2016."
What they don't say is that the research they're quoting is not from 2012-2016 but rather took place from 2007-08 and 2010-11 school year. The research they are quoting originally ended in 2012 and was updated in 2016. Here is a link to the article: http://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/under-siege-marijuana-and-colorado-schools/ (http://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/under-siege-marijuana-and-colorado-schools/)
So most of this study took place BEFORE legal weed even became for sale in CO.
This editorial is a total hack job with a political (and most likely business) slant using a leading argument of half stated research to spin an agenda.
This was just the first fact check I did by doing a Google search for their quotes but I am sure there are other dubiously stated items in this piece.
Whoops!
I'll wait a couple days to see if opinion of this editorial changes for people
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 17, 2017, 12:02:23 PM
Are you pro-alcohol? Alcohol is certainly responsible for a lot of society's ills.
i'm neither pro nor con. it's been here since before my time. if i start a lobby to get rid of it, i know it is wasting my time. alcohol is absolutely responsible for many of our ills. my point is 1) please don't add to our ills 2) we must learn from our past mistakes
our societal ills from alcohol are far reaching. seeing how pot has affected the states that have legalized it-yeah, let's have some more of that if the negatives outweigh the positives, why would we even consider it? do you think that if we(wisconsin) legalize pot that we can do better? failure really shouldn't be an option here knowing what we know.
i'm sure hards that you are a consumer. so when you want to buy something or use someones services, and if you are like me, i check out reviews and/or ask others(word of mouth) who have experiences with whatever it is that i'm looking at. someone tells you such and such is a hack dentist, smells like pot, alcohol, B.O. untrustworthy, etc etc. are you going to go to said dentist anyway? same with products-you going to buy something that is known to breakdown or under perform?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 03:45:54 PM
i'm neither pro nor con. it's been here since before my time. if i start a lobby to get rid of it, i know it is wasting my time. alcohol is absolutely responsible for many of our ills. my point is 1) please don't add to our ills 2) we must learn from our past mistakes
our societal ills from alcohol are far reaching. seeing how pot has affected the states that have legalized it-yeah, let's have some more of that if the negatives outweigh the positives, why would we even consider it? do you think that if we(wisconsin) legalize pot that we can do better? failure really shouldn't be an option here knowing what we know.
i'm sure hards that you are a consumer. so when you want to buy something or use someones services, and if you are like me, i check out reviews and/or ask others(word of mouth) who have experiences with whatever it is that i'm looking at. someone tells you such and such is a hack dentist, smells like pot, alcohol, B.O. untrustworthy, etc etc. are you going to go to said dentist anyway? same with products-you going to buy something that is known to breakdown or under perform?
I do the same things when purchasing.
Maybe the negatives of marijuana outweigh the positives, but that may be your opinion... and not someone else's. I figured that in the land of the free it should be someone's choice to have a joint after work if they want one. Just like they can choose to have a cigarette or a drink after work. I realize that opening the door for recreational use has its own set of problems (driving while impaired being #1), but we already have those problems with alcohol. There will be people who drive and smoke, just like there are people who drink and drive. Why is it okay to ban marijuana for someone who uses it responsibly and doesn't cause others harm?
Probably the best way to cut down on the societal problems is the way we cut down on our current problems... education; and what better way to fund education than with the taxes generated by the marijuana sales!
Don't people from you 'side of the aisle' want less government? Then why the intrusion here? I'm not sure how folks can reconcile that in their head.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 17, 2017, 01:39:51 PM
Whoops!
I'll wait a couple days to see if opinion of this editorial changes for people
this from newsweek-teen addiction, homelessness, increased lawlessness, drugged driving, edible related emergency room visits, child related hospital visits, etc etc. the increase in jobs, economy etc has probably been a wash with public safety and health related costs
The eyes of other states eager to legalize pot should be firmly fixed on the unfolding saga of towns such as Denver, Boulder and De Beque, Colo
"The eyes of other states eager to legalize pot should be firmly fixed on the unfolding saga of towns such as Denver, Boulder and De Beque, Colo"
i understand that for every article supporting my beliefs/concerns can be balanced with an article against my beliefs. i'm just saying, not much( i didn't say none) good can come of adding another mind altering substance to our societal ills. why, knowing all the risks, add another one? where is the "anti-smoking" crowd on this? 2nd hand, tertiary smoke?
"Don't people from you 'side of the aisle' want less government? Then why the intrusion here? I'm not sure how folks can reconcile that in their head."
yes, but i'm conservative, not libertarian. i've never said "no" to all government. there are certain functions that i believe only our government can provide-security and safety is in the top 5 if not #1.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 04:02:36 PM
this from newsweek-teen addiction, homelessness, increased lawlessness, drugged driving, edible related emergency room visits, child related hospital visits, etc etc. the increase in jobs, economy etc has probably been a wash with public safety and health related costs
The eyes of other states eager to legalize pot should be firmly fixed on the unfolding saga of towns such as Denver, Boulder and De Beque, Colo
"The eyes of other states eager to legalize pot should be firmly fixed on the unfolding saga of towns such as Denver, Boulder and De Beque, Colo"
i understand that for every article supporting my beliefs/concerns can be balanced with an article against my beliefs. i'm just saying, not much( i didn't say none) good can come of adding another mind altering substance to our societal ills. why, knowing all the risks, add another one? where is the "anti-smoking" crowd on this? 2nd hand, tertiary smoke?
I think when marijuana was legalized in Colorado they saw a pretty big population boom, and a lot of people who wanted to make marijuana a part of their life moved there. Could explain some of the initial shock of the negative behavior increasing.
Why knowing all the risks do we allow alcohol? Why not ban it like we did in the early 20th century?
As for smoking weed in public, you better not be doing it near me. Just like smoking cigarettes.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 04:12:17 PM
"Don't people from you 'side of the aisle' want less government? Then why the intrusion here? I'm not sure how folks can reconcile that in their head."
yes, but i'm conservative, not libertarian. i've never said "no" to all government. there are certain functions that i believe only our government can provide-security and safety is in the top 5 if not #1.
Understood.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 04:02:36 PM
this from newsweek-teen addiction, homelessness, increased lawlessness, drugged driving, edible related emergency room visits, child related hospital visits, etc etc. the increase in jobs, economy etc has probably been a wash with public safety and health related costs
The eyes of other states eager to legalize pot should be firmly fixed on the unfolding saga of towns such as Denver, Boulder and De Beque, Colo
"The eyes of other states eager to legalize pot should be firmly fixed on the unfolding saga of towns such as Denver, Boulder and De Beque, Colo"
i understand that for every article supporting my beliefs/concerns can be balanced with an article against my beliefs. i'm just saying, not much( i didn't say none) good can come of adding another mind altering substance to our societal ills. why, knowing all the risks, add another one? where is the "anti-smoking" crowd on this? 2nd hand, tertiary smoke?
You don't have to smoke it to use it.
I think you need more education on the topic.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 17, 2017, 04:21:29 PM
You don't have to smoke it to use it.
I think you need more education on the topic.
umm, well, i may not have tried the edibles. i have heard they are quite tasty AND effective. i have also heard however, that the potency of the the product in smoke form since my college years has increased dramatically ::) i used to be more "educated" but i will admit that i am probably a little behind with my CE ;)
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 04:59:22 PM
umm, well, i may not have tried the edibles. i have heard they are quite tasty AND effective. i have also heard however, that the potency of the the product in smoke form since my college years has increased dramatically ::) i used to be more "educated" but i will admit that i am probably a little behind with my CE ;)
Ha. I've never used the stuff actually. But I do know that today's stuff is typically more concentrated vs 40 years ago
CE is such a racket. Had to sit through a 3 day BS conference last week for 24 credits. And it was over $500 with no hands-on experience
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 17, 2017, 06:13:16 PM
Ha. I've never used the stuff actually. But I do know that today's stuff is typically more concentrated vs 40 years ago
CE is such a racket. Had to sit through a 3 day BS conference last week for 24 credits. And it was over $500 with no hands-on experience
true story-ok, i have had the unfortunate, dumb luck of being around some of this chit back in the late 70's-mid 80's. all 2nd hand smoke of course anyone here remember the wet towel under the door, fan in the window and the ever present smell of ozium walking the halls of mccormick? neither do i
anywhoo, my oldest son comes home one weekend from college(MU grad 2009) about 10 years ago with this little baggie of a green leafy substance and we decide to do a little father-son bonding. i think i had 2 hits and i couldn't friggin talk for a couple of hours. that was the last time i was around that damn 2nd hand smokebut holy Jesus mary and joseph. that was NOT your father's maryjane i'm telling you right now.
moral of the story-kinda tough to bond with your kid when ya can't talk AND now i know why cheech and chong talk the way they do
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 17, 2017, 03:57:53 PM
Don't people from you 'side of the aisle' want less government? Then why the intrusion here? I'm not sure how folks can reconcile that in their head.
The white men of that side also get a kick out of taking reproductive rights away from women.
In other words, they like smaller government ... except when it suits them to like bigger government.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 09:35:20 PM
true story-ok, i have had the unfortunate, dumb luck of being around some of this chit back in the late 70's-mid 80's. all 2nd hand smoke of course anyone here remember the wet towel under the door, fan in the window and the ever present smell of ozium walking the halls of mccormick? neither do i
anywhoo, my oldest son comes home one weekend from college(MU grad 2009) about 10 years ago with this little baggie of a green leafy substance and we decide to do a little father-son bonding. i think i had 2 hits and i couldn't friggin talk for a couple of hours. that was the last time i was around that damn 2nd hand smokebut holy Jesus mary and joseph. that was NOT your father's maryjane i'm telling you right now.
moral of the story-kinda tough to bond with your kid when ya can't talk AND now i know why cheech and chong talk the way they do
Awesome story!
Edit: you should try to vape.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on November 18, 2017, 12:10:28 AM
Awesome story!
Edit: you should try to vape.
thanks for the advice, but the days of those mind altering "things" for this dude are but some pleasant and becoming more distant memories by the day. growing up was a blast with some bumps in the road. if we didn't learn from those "bumps" we wouldn't be where we are today
A massive opioid epidemic in the country and this is what people are worried about? Legalized marijuana. Seems like a strange time to focus on this problem.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on November 18, 2017, 10:22:00 PM
A massive opioid epidemic in the country and this is what people are worried about? Legalized marijuana. Seems like a strange time to focus on this problem.
i think we have room to worry about both. i don't believe this is a one or the other. how about we multi-task. everyone here knows i'm for limited government, but this is one area where i believe we could use more resources-putting more money toward drug rehabilitation and AODA personnel. i'm pretty sure we could find some inefficient government program to cannibalize and forage some funds from. the ill effects from ALL drug abuse reach far and wide and cost this country A LOT of money-public safety, health and welfare, child abuse, education and employment
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 18, 2017, 10:44:24 PM
i think we have room to worry about both. i don't believe this is a one or the other. how about we multi-task. everyone here knows i'm for limited government, but this is one area where i believe we could use more resources-putting more money toward drug rehabilitation and AODA personnel. i'm pretty sure we could find some inefficient government program to cannibalize and forage some funds from. the ill effects from ALL drug abuse reach far and wide and cost this country A LOT of money-public safety, health and welfare, child abuse, education and employment
Ah yes. The myth that "my program can be funded through cutting another one because I don't want to pay more taxes" continues...
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 18, 2017, 10:44:24 PM
i think we have room to worry about both. i don't believe this is a one or the other. how about we multi-task. everyone here knows i'm for limited government, but this is one area where i believe we could use more resources-putting more money toward drug rehabilitation and AODA personnel. i'm pretty sure we could find some inefficient government program to cannibalize and forage some funds from. the ill effects from ALL drug abuse reach far and wide and cost this country A LOT of money-public safety, health and welfare, child abuse, education and employment
I get you are worried. I am not. 64,000 overdose deaths in 2016. How many of those attributable to marijuana? My cousin is an addiction specialist and says about 2% of her patients come in for CBD/THC problems. Despite much more widespread use than other drugs sans alcohol. Just seems like a blip on a radar of our drug problems.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 19, 2017, 07:24:09 AM
Ah yes. The myth that "my program can be funded through cutting another one because I don't want to pay more taxes" continues...
there ya go whining about taxes again-you said it, i didn't
Quote from: MarquetteDano on November 19, 2017, 09:35:47 AM
I get you are worried. I am not. 64,000 overdose deaths in 2016. How many of those attributable to marijuana? My cousin is an addiction specialist and says about 2% of her patients come in for CBD/THC problems. Despite much more widespread use than other drugs sans alcohol. Just seems like a blip on a radar of our drug problems.
we can only help so many of those 64k people who overdosed. first, start with a good education program. we have already put some safety checks in the way of legitimate Rx prescribing. there is a national data base we can log in to and far better records are being kept of each individual persons prescriptions filled and by what doc.
ok, back to those 64k overdoses-it's very sad. it is a basterd of a drug to quit. the withdrawal is tortuous. then the support to stay clean is tough. my concern here is how many chances to we give people? the first big step needs to come from the abuser-the system can only begin to help those who want to help themselves. what is the percentagte? 5-10%
i know a lot of people want to blame the Rx companies and a prior fill in the blank injury, surgery, etc. bottom line-either the person taking the drug wasn't informed properly on how to take the schedule II's or there was another underlying problem, i.e. the patient took advantage of the drug's side effects-the buzz-to "feel good" and threw all caution to the wind
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 19, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
there ya go whining about taxes again-you said it, i didn't
You were the one bringing up how to pay for treatment. Your idea that you can fund something like that by simply finding waste in other programs is a line that's been used for 30+ years.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 19, 2017, 11:24:13 AM
You were the one bringing up how to pay for treatment. Your idea that you can fund something like that by simply finding waste in other programs is a line that's been used for 30+ years.
nothing the matter with that-maybe we could steal a little from the $3.1 billion we spend on gov. employees on administrative leave? or the $283,000 spent on dept. of defense bird watching or the $406,000 spent on studying if the media causes polarization or does polarization cause media choice?
just saying, we could find some money to spend a little more wisely-anything wrong with that?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 19, 2017, 12:47:14 PM
nothing the matter with that-maybe we could steal a little from the $3.1 billion we spend on gov. employees on administrative leave? or the $283,000 spent on dept. of defense bird watching or the $406,000 spent on studying if the media causes polarization or does polarization cause media choice?
just saying, we could find some money to spend a little more wisely-anything wrong with that?
Or maybe we defund the hell our of our bloated military. Maybe just a couple of jets.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 19, 2017, 12:49:29 PM
Or maybe we defund the hell our of our bloated military. Maybe just a couple of jets.
#44 already did a pretty good number on that. our air force has been absolutely decimated and don't tell anyone, but there's a dude name kim jung fat-so threatening to send some fireworks our way.
better place to get some cash to save lives from drug abuse? sanctuary cities harboring criminals-perfect, problem solved!
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 19, 2017, 12:47:14 PM
nothing the matter with that-maybe we could steal a little from the $3.1 billion we spend on gov. employees on administrative leave? or the $283,000 spent on dept. of defense bird watching or the $406,000 spent on studying if the media causes polarization or does polarization cause media choice?
just saying, we could find some money to spend a little more wisely-anything wrong with that?
Thanks for proving my point regarding the absurdity of your suggestion.
I find it interesting that we have one thread where two arguments are made.
1. We shouldn't make laws to restrict access to X, which is causing a significant numbers of deaths, because there already is so much X on the streets that it wouldn't make an impact.
2. In the early 1900's, X was completely legal and we didn't have the same problems, so the issue is bad people, not X.
Then here, the same people come to the opposite conclusions. That we need to make Y illegal, because it is causing so many problems in society and deaths, despite the fact that:
1. There is so much Y on the streets that new laws would have zero impact on access to Y. After all, I can make Y easily by buying things that are perfectly legal.
2. In the early 1900's, Y was completely legal and we didn't have the same problems.
Why isn't the problem here also bad people, not Y itself? Most people that use Y are causing zero problems to society.
Quote from: forgetful on November 19, 2017, 05:58:16 PM
I find it interesting that we have one thread where two arguments are made.
1. We shouldn't make laws to restrict access to X, which is causing a significant numbers of deaths, because there already is so much X on the streets that it wouldn't make an impact.
2. In the early 1900's, X was completely legal and we didn't have the same problems, so the issue is bad people, not X.
Then here, the same people come to the opposite conclusions. That we need to make Y illegal, because it is causing so many problems in society and deaths, despite the fact that:
1. There is so much Y on the streets that new laws would have zero impact on access to Y. After all, I can make Y easily by buying things that are perfectly legal.
2. In the early 1900's, Y was completely legal and we didn't have the same problems.
Why isn't the problem here also bad people, not Y itself? Most people that use Y are causing zero problems to society.
sounds like apples and space shuttles again, but if "Y" is referring to mariju-ahhna, it is still illegal according to the feds and most states. we do have laws on the books re: "Y" i think. "Y" is still considered a schedule I drug as well.
if "X" is referring to guns...here we go again
either one of them, by themselves are inanimate objects. by themselves, they do no harm.
when someone consumes "Y", they can become bad people through actions if deemed to be caused by "Y"; unless of course you want to include the fact that they(consumers of "Y") would also be indirect contributors to all the violence that can occur including, but not limited to the manufacture and sale of "Y".
you of course know that "X" by itself does no harm, but when put into operation against another for nefarious reasons, the operator becomes a bad person
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 19, 2017, 06:27:14 PM
sounds like apples and space shuttles again, but if "Y" is referring to mariju-ahhna, it is still illegal according to the feds and most states. we do have laws on the books re: "Y" i think. "Y" is still considered a schedule I drug as well.
if "X" is referring to guns...here we go again
either one of them, by themselves are inanimate objects. by themselves, they do no harm.
when someone consumes "Y", they can become bad people through actions if deemed to be caused by "Y"; unless of course you want to include the fact that they(consumers of "Y") would also be indirect contributors to all the violence that can occur including, but not limited to the manufacture and sale of "Y".
you of course know that "X" by itself does no harm, but when put into operation against another for nefarious reasons, the operator becomes a bad person
The fact is, people use the same arguments to argue against Y, but in favor of X. That is illogical. Making Y illegal has harmed more lives and caused more problems for this nation than those who consume it.
Quote from: forgetful on November 19, 2017, 07:05:09 PM
The fact is, people use the same arguments to argue against Y, but in favor of X. That is illogical. Making Y illegal has harmed more lives and caused more problems for this nation than those who consume it.
i don't know if cannibis was ever really "legal. regulation of and labeling certain drugs and narcotics in the early 1900's were meant to close labeling "loopholes" in the poison laws. cannabis never really was legal but was considered "fashionable" in the mid 1800's but no mention of it's legality or not. i would gather, as our society started to demand standards, it was just included in the poison laws and never removed
so to say making it illegal is misleading. they labeled it as such reflecting the values of their times, not ours. how wise they were back then; there are some lessons in history we should probably take better note of. they aren't called "wise old men" for nothing
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 19, 2017, 07:59:57 PM
i don't know if cannibis was ever really "legal. regulation of and labeling certain drugs and narcotics in the early 1900's were meant to close labeling "loopholes" in the poison laws. cannabis never really was legal but was considered "fashionable" in the mid 1800's but no mention of it's legality or not. i would gather, as our society started to demand standards, it was just included in the poison laws and never removed
so to say making it illegal is misleading. they labeled it as such reflecting the values of their times, not ours. how wise they were back then; there are some lessons in history we should probably take better note of. they aren't called "wise old men" for nothing
It was made illegal out of fear of Mexican immigrants and the view that they were racially inferior. It was designed to punish mexican immigrants that people thought were stealing their jobs during the great depression.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 19, 2017, 07:59:57 PM
i don't know if cannibis was ever really "legal. regulation of and labeling certain drugs and narcotics in the early 1900's were meant to close labeling "loopholes" in the poison laws. cannabis never really was legal but was considered "fashionable" in the mid 1800's but no mention of it's legality or not. i would gather, as our society started to demand standards, it was just included in the poison laws and never removed
so to say making it illegal is misleading. they labeled it as such reflecting the values of their times, not ours. how wise they were back then; there are some lessons in history we should probably take better note of. they aren't called "wise old men" for nothing
https://youtu.be/CJlqsdezhhk
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 17, 2017, 09:35:20 PM
that was NOT your father's maryjane i'm telling you right now.
There have been a few enhancements.
New Weed vs. Old Weed
(http://www.blog.sagmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Bugatti-Veyron-Old-Vs-New.jpg)