A church in Texas. Assailant dead after a chase with police.
Tragic.
Add another mass shooting to the list.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 05, 2017, 02:57:29 PM
A church in Texas. Assailant dead after a chase with police.
Tragic.
Add another mass shooting to the list.
How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend? Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic? The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 05, 2017, 03:07:57 PM
How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend? Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic? The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.
Hey everybody ... it's a lecture on the lack of respect for life from the guy who is a firm believer in public executions (just like ISIS and the Taliban).
We can reopen the Vegas one, no different. The respect for people is the key. We can't even have conversations anymore without being labeled racist, misogynist, or what have you. The value of life continues to be diminished.
(http://www.gloucestercitynews.net/.a/6a00d8341bf7d953ef019affad10ec970b-800wi)
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 05, 2017, 03:07:57 PM
How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend? Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic? The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.
Very fair viewpoint.
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 05, 2017, 03:07:57 PM
How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend? Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic? The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.
Does calling mass shootings tragic imply that individual shootings aren't tragic? I'm not sure the logic here really adds up, but then again that never stops you from marching around on a high horse.
Only one common denominator in the hundreds of mass shootings.
Easy access to guns. Our country's answer? Make it easier to get guns.
I'd also like to apologize- now is not the time to talk about guns :-[
People have always been violent.
Saying that its worse now simply isn't true. You're leaning on nostalgia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 05, 2017, 04:25:20 PM
People have always been violent.
Saying that its worse now simply isn't true. You're leaning on nostalgia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States
Exactly this.
If we want to go by the numbers, we're far more respective of life these days than 30-40 years ago.
The difference is today isn't that we're less respectful of life. It's that we have easier access to weapons that can kill 20+ people in a matter of seconds.
In before the lock.
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 05, 2017, 03:07:57 PM
How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend? Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic? The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.
Um. I never said individual shootings aren't tragic.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 05, 2017, 04:25:20 PM
People have always been violent.
Saying that its worse now simply isn't true. You're leaning on nostalgia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States
Absolutely true. But.........
The 2nd amendment guarantees the death penalty for thousands of innocent Americans every year.
These violent people were not able to kill mass quantities in an instant until the NRA fought for their right to do so.
nm
Quote from: mupanther on November 05, 2017, 03:31:47 PM
Very fair viewpoint.
Not really. It is another Chicos strawman. No one argued that the shooting in Chicago aren't tragic.
White man kills 27 people in a church and the first response in this thread is someone who feels the need to remind everyone that black people shoot people too. Disgusting behavior.
I'm part of the crisis response team at TAMU. We have lots of students from the area of the shooting. Made a lot of calls to students to make sure they and their families are okay. Sending thoughts and prayers.
An armed citizen shot at him and forced him to flee or would have been worse. Good. I pray it isn't what some rumors are suggesting, but will wait to hear what authorities say.
Quote from: Jockey on November 05, 2017, 04:22:55 PM
Only one common denominator in the hundreds of mass shootings.
Easy access to guns. Our country's answer? Make it easier to get guns.
I'd also like to apologize- now is not the time to talk about guns :-[
If this guy had said, "Allah Akbar" before he lit up the church, it definitely WOULD be the time to talk about Islamic terrorism.
But no, it's NEVER the right time to talk about guns. Not 5 minutes or 5 hours or 5 weeks or 5 years after these incidents.
Watt da fook is wrong wit people, hey?
Quote from: MU82 on November 05, 2017, 06:08:53 PM
If this guy had said, "Allah Akbar" before he lit up the church, it definitely WOULD be the time to talk about Islamic terrorism.
But no, it's NEVER the right time to talk about guns. Not 5 minutes or 5 hours or 5 weeks or 5 years after these incidents.
https://twitter.com/goldengateblond/status/925495024099385344
@goldengateblond
Brown guy kills 8 with a truck: "WALLS! BANS! BARRICADES!"
White guy kills 59 with guns: "well what can you do"
5:49 PM - 31 Oct 2017
Yep, this was just another disturbed jerk, who this time happened to be a white male - which also is the profile for most of the perpetrators of these acts of terrorism. Naturally, he was packin' all kinds of weapons, wearing body armor, etc. Because, you know, the 2nd Amendment.
I did see reports saying he used to teach bible school for kids but also "liked" FB pages linked to atheism. Which of course will make some jamokes conclude that his rejection of religion led him to this rampage. Which I guess means I'm just minutes away from opening fire on a church, too.
What he wasn't: Anybody who could have been stopped from entering the country by executive orders signed by a xenophobic president ... because he was already here. As were the vast majority of these mass shooters. Time to kick out all white American males!
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 05, 2017, 06:24:44 PM
https://twitter.com/goldengateblond/status/925495024099385344
@goldengateblond
Brown guy kills 8 with a truck: "WALLS! BANS! BARRICADES!"
White guy kills 59 with guns: "well what can you do"
5:49 PM - 31 Oct 2017
Yup. Prior to that there were 24 deaths in the United States as a result of foreign inspired terrorism in the US since 9/11. We could've saved at least that many people in Las Vegas had we simply not allowed people to buy items that turn semi-automatic rifles into fully automatic rifles. But that's giving up too much of our freedom, so ban those damn Muslims!
As I've said before, if Sandy Hook didn't change anything I'm not sure what will.
Thoughts and prayers are nice and all but they don't change a damn thing.
This country's inability to do anything about it is pathetic.
Quote from: Jockey on November 05, 2017, 04:49:26 PM
Absolutely true. But.........
The 2nd amendment guarantees the death penalty for thousands of innocent Americans every year.
These violent people were not able to kill mass quantities in an instant until the NRA fought for their right to do so.
You are an awful person ... the NRA did not kill anyone, the mentally unstable shooter did.
If the mods had a backbone, they would ban you for this statement.
----
so answer this to me. Here and some mail order catalog ads prior to the gun act of 1934. Again, the semi-automatic rifle was invented in the 1880s so nothing has changed. So, yes these 80-year guns look like the guns used today, they have the same lethal capability. Guns are a century plus technology.
So why did we not have a mass shooting problem prior to 1934? Why now? Could it be that society has a mental stability problem?
This appears to be too hard a question for you as you instead prefer undirected hate at the 47% of the United States that owns guns.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/5/25/15/enhanced-buzz-orig-11172-1369509913-6.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
(http://i.imgur.com/5CYA18x.jpg)
(http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3346&d=1358649350)
(http://i.imgur.com/e38N3t4.jpg)
The Right: This isn't about guns, it's about a mentally unstable person.
OK, then let's make sure mental health care is easily accessible and affordable for everyone.
The Right: Nah.
Quote from: 1.21 Jigawatts on November 05, 2017, 11:18:36 PM
You are an awful person ... the NRA did not kill anyone, the mentally unstable shooter did.
If the mods had a backbone, they would ban you for this statement.
----
so answer this to me. Here and some mail order catalog ads prior to the gun act of 1934. Again, the semi-automatic rifle was invented in the 1880s so nothing has changed. So, yes these 80-year guns look like the guns used today, they have the same lethal capability. Guns are a century plus technology.
So why did we not have a mass shooting problem prior to 1934? Why now? Could it be that society has a mental stability problem?
This appears to be too hard a question for you as you instead prefer undirected hate at the 47% of the United States that owns guns.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/5/25/15/enhanced-buzz-orig-11172-1369509913-6.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
(http://i.imgur.com/5CYA18x.jpg)
(http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3346&d=1358649350)
(http://i.imgur.com/e38N3t4.jpg)
Holy sh*t...
Quote from: 1.21 Jigawatts on November 05, 2017, 11:18:36 PM
You are an awful person ... the NRA did not kill anyone, the mentally unstable shooter did.
If the mods had a backbone, they would ban you for this statement.
The NRA (and you) fight very hard to make sure any mentally unstable person can acquire military-grade assault weapons that kill lots of people in just seconds.
You must be proud.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 05, 2017, 11:44:53 PM
Holy sh*t...
His post was so sick, I can't even come up with the right words to rebut.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 05, 2017, 11:34:50 PM
The Right: This isn't about guns, it's about a mentally unstable person.
OK, then let's make sure mental health care is easily accessible and affordable for everyone.
The Right: Nah.
So that is the problem ... if psychiatrists would cut their rates this problem goes away?
Are you too so full of hate you see every issue in a left-right prism and blame every problem on those that disagree with your political ideology?
Quote from: Jockey on November 05, 2017, 11:51:06 PM
His post was so sick, I can't even come up with the right words to rebut.
Becuase you have no answer. You could buy bombs, machine guns, cannons, and grenades via catalogs until 1934. Yet we did not have mass carnage problem back then.
But I digress .. continue on your hate-filled "the NRA has blood on its hands." Becuase that is the true "Holy Sh*t" post.
Hurry and answer before this too is locked.
Methinks you are using the word "hate" way too often as you argue for the right for anyone to acquire military-grade killing machines.
Maybe if you had bought Apple, you wouldn't feel so miserable.
Quote from: Jockey on November 05, 2017, 11:47:29 PM
The NRA (and you) fight very hard to make sure any mentally unstable person can acquire military-grade assault weapons that kill lots of people in just seconds.
You must be proud.
How exactly does the NRA do this? Becuase mental instability is a disqualification for buying a gun, and the NRA agrees with it.
The shooter (I'm not typing his name) was discharged for Bad Conduct from the Air Force., That too also makes him unable to legally buy a gun. The NRA supports this too.
So, you are dead wrong on your facts.
So why don't you wait for facts instead of now accusing me of being proud that this happened?
Again, where are the mods, why is your account still active?
stories coming out that a guy with a legal conceal and carry permit stopped what could have been worse. that one gun that so many rail about, just became one valuable piece of equipment in the right hands to potentially save ?? lives-priceless
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453443/sutherland-texas-good-guy-gun-stops-bad-guy-gun-devin-patrick-kelley
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 05, 2017, 09:47:01 PM
As I've said before, if Sandy Hook didn't change anything I'm not sure what will.
Thoughts and prayers are nice and all but they don't change a damn thing.
This country's inability to do anything about it is pathetic.
I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.
Rather than controlling gun sales, a law should be passed that we all wear kevlar vests when groups of people are assembled.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2017, 06:50:23 AM
I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.
... and the terrorist attack in NYC last week.
There's an interesting quote in that article that rocket posted.
"We have better answers for jihadists and other terrorists than we do for vengeful and evil men who lash out based on purely individual slights, real or imagined."
100% agree and it's one of the things that frustrates me about some of the arguments equating all these incidents. Solutions need not (in fact cannot) be one size fits all.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2017, 05:23:29 PM
White man kills 27 people in a church and the first response in this thread is someone who feels the need to remind everyone that black people shoot people too. Disgusting behavior.
I'm part of the crisis response team at TAMU. We have lots of students from the area of the shooting. Made a lot of calls to students to make sure they and their families are okay. Sending thoughts and prayers.
Let's be clear it is all disgusting.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2017, 06:55:26 AM
Rather than controlling gun sales, a law should be passed that we all wear kevlar vests when groups of people are assembled.
Look, we're all frustrated and I know you were simply expressing your frustration with a little joke. All good. But how do we really handle this one? If it turns out to be true that this individual was barred by existing law from owning or possessing firearms because of past conduct AND was stopped by a good citizen who engaged him with his own legally held weapon, then what? Now there will be the politically motivated pat answers, sure. But if we all think about it, that's a problem without any easy solution. I wish I had one.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 05, 2017, 09:47:01 PM
As I've said before, if Sandy Hook didn't change anything I'm not sure what will.
Thoughts and prayers are nice and all but they don't change a damn thing.
This country's inability to do anything about it is pathetic.
At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?
The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.
They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.
There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.
And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.
Quote from: jsglow on November 06, 2017, 07:05:23 AM
Look, we're all frustrated and I know you were simply expressing your frustration with a little joke. All good. But how do we really handle this one? If it turns out to be true that this individual was barred by existing law from owning or possessing firearms because of past conduct AND was stopped by a good citizen who engaged him with his own legally held weapon, then what? Now there will be the politically motivated pat answers, sure. But if we all think about it, that's a problem without any easy solution. I wish I had one.
I agree.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2017, 06:50:23 AM
I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.
With all due respect, I do not accept and cannot stand this thought process.
This individual bought the gun legally. Based on the history that has come out he should not have been able to do so.
If he was only able to obtain a six shot revolver he still would have been able to take lives but not at the scale we saw yesterday. Maybe he drives a vehicle into the church. Does that kill 26 and injure 20? I highly doubt it.
McVeigh is an outlier. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm highly skeptical that many of the perpetrators that have committed these recent mass shootings, all with AR-15s, would have had the knowledge and patience to successfully construct a bomb of some kind to inflict the same magnitude of damage they so easily did with their weapons.
But if even one life could be saved by different restrictions or laws isn't that well worth it?
There is no perfect solution. It's a mental health issue. It's a gun control issue. This stuff doesn't happen in Canada. It doesn't happen in Japan. It doesn't happen on Britain. This is an American issue and we do nothing and it's unacceptable.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 06, 2017, 07:10:55 AM
At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?
The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.
They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.
There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.
And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.
Yup.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 06, 2017, 07:46:08 AM
With all due respect, I do not accept and cannot stand this thought process.
This individual bought the gun legally. Based on the history that has come out he should not have been able to do so.
If he was only able to obtain a six shot revolver he still would have been able to take lives but not at the scale we saw yesterday. Maybe he drives a vehicle into the church. Does that kill 26 and injure 20? I highly doubt it.
McVeigh is an outlier. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm highly skeptical that many of the perpetrators that have committed these recent mass shootings, all with AR-15s, would have had the knowledge and patience to successfully construct a bomb of some kind to inflict the same magnitude of damage they so easily did with their weapons.
But if even one life could be saved by different restrictions or laws isn't that well worth it?
There is no perfect solution. It's a mental health issue. It's a gun control issue. This stuff doesn't happen in Canada. It doesn't happen in Japan. It doesn't happen on Britain. This is an American issue and we do nothing and it's unacceptable.
But don't you know, there aren't mental health issues in any of those countries you listed that don't have these gun problems. It's not guns, it's people and mental health. ::)
Quote from: 1.21 Jigawatts on November 05, 2017, 11:18:36 PM
You are an awful person ... the NRA did not kill anyone, the mentally unstable shooter did.
If the mods had a backbone, they would ban you for this statement.
----
so answer this to me. Here and some mail order catalog ads prior to the gun act of 1934. Again, the semi-automatic rifle was invented in the 1880s so nothing has changed. So, yes these 80-year guns look like the guns used today, they have the same lethal capability. Guns are a century plus technology.
So why did we not have a mass shooting problem prior to 1934? Why now? Could it be that society has a mental stability problem?
This appears to be too hard a question for you as you instead prefer undirected hate at the 47% of the United States that owns guns.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/5/25/15/enhanced-buzz-orig-11172-1369509913-6.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
(http://i.imgur.com/5CYA18x.jpg)
(http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3346&d=1358649350)
(http://i.imgur.com/e38N3t4.jpg)
WTF has gotten into you?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 06, 2017, 07:10:55 AM
At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?
The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.
They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.
There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.
And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.
So is this a call for a full ban?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 06, 2017, 07:46:08 AM
But if even one life could be saved by different restrictions or laws isn't that well worth it?
Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.
All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.
Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 06, 2017, 07:10:55 AM
At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?
The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.
They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.
There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.
And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.
Bingo.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 05, 2017, 11:34:50 PM
The Right: This isn't about guns, it's about a mentally unstable person.
OK, then let's make sure mental health care is easily accessible and affordable for everyone.
The Right: Nah.
You probably don't know this, but making mental health care easily accessible and affordable offers a solution that's unrelated to the problem.
If you did know, well then trying to capitalize on a tragedy by pushing an unrelated healthcare agenda makes the problem worse.
Quote from: MU82 on November 06, 2017, 08:34:06 AM
Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.
All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.
Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.
82 and I are agreeing here. From what the governor said, he was denied a Texas gun permit.
Look guys. Take the defacto default political positions out of it for just a moment.
Vegas? Bump stocks, easy.
Guy from Uzbekistan? I know some want 'open' borders but c'mon. Easy.
Sutherland Springs? I honestly don't know.
Look, it's not a total solution but I really believe that if everyone just backed off a bit in their daily discourse with other people we'd make a dent, even a little one. Maybe then the 1 in 1,000,000 creep who simply can't let anything go, I mean anything, is slightly less inclined to act in the ultimate extreme.
It happens here on Scoop all the freakin' time. Never give an inch. Escalate. Fight to the last breath. And then personally attack someone with a different viewpoint. I personally hate that world.
For grins I was reading the 'Best MU bars' thread from 2007 last night. It was fun. It was lively. Everyone was having a good time. I miss those days.
Now watch. Someone will personally attack me for this position or statement. And my response will simply be to turn off my computer and end my participation in a potentially productive conversation. And again we accomplish nothing. It really makes me sad.
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 05, 2017, 03:07:57 PM
How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend? Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic? The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.
5 dead 24 wounded. What exactly is the point of that post?
Also is nobody going to address the fact that he just compared people who have abortions to those that have caused mass shootings?
Quote from: MU82 on November 06, 2017, 08:34:06 AM
Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.
All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.
Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.
I don't disagree with your points. But do something. If if that doesn't work, try something else. The status quo clearly isn't working.
Quote from: jsglow on November 06, 2017, 08:59:39 AM
82 and I are agreeing here. From what the governor said, he was denied a Texas gun permit.
Look guys. Take the defacto default political positions out of it for just a moment.
Vegas? Bump stocks, easy.
Guy from Uzbekistan? I know some want 'open' borders but c'mon. Easy.
Sutherland Springs? I honestly don't know.
Look, it's not a total solution but I really believe that if everyone just backed off a bit in their daily discourse with other people we'd make a dent, even a little one. Maybe then the 1 in 1,000,000 creep who simply can't let anything go, I mean anything, is slightly less inclined to act in the ultimate extreme.
It happens here on Scoop all the freakin' time. Never give an inch. Escalate. Fight to the last breath. And then personally attack someone with a different viewpoint. I personally hate that world.
For grins I was reading the 'Best MU bars' thread from 2007 last night. It was fun. It was lively. Everyone was having a good time. I miss those days.
Now watch. Someone will personally attack me for this position or statement. And my response will simply be to turn off my computer and end my participation in a potentially productive conversation. And again we accomplish nothing. It really makes me sad.
He was denied a permit but he was still able to legally purchase weapons. How does that make any sense whatsoever?
Quote from: MU82 on November 06, 2017, 08:34:06 AM
Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.
All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.
Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.
Frankly, our ideas don't matter. Our way of life is shaped by thinktanks around the country whose philosophies are shaped by political parties & platforms and then sold to their respective halves as ideals, morals and values.
The only way anything changes in the country is when politics are placed aside and people demand that that philosophies be shaped ideals, morals and values.
Unfortunately, the branding of our political parties has become so entwined into society over the past 50 or so years that asking someone to place their political leanings aside would be like asking them to give up their individuality.
This is not a Democrat or Republican failure. Democrats and Republicans
are the failures.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 06, 2017, 09:05:41 AM
He was denied a permit but he was still able to legally purchase weapons. How does that make any sense whatsoever?
I don't think we know all the details yet Vander. There may be some gaps to be filled in. I don't want to speculate but of course it doesn't make sense and that would be another EASY.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 06, 2017, 09:03:34 AM
I don't disagree with your points. But do something. If if that doesn't work, try something else. The status quo clearly isn't working.
That's exactly the thing that frustrates me most. Try something. You don't need to have the perfect answer to start.
Quote from: Benny B on November 06, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Frankly, our ideas don't matter. Our way of life is shaped by thinktanks around the country whose philosophies are shaped by political parties & platforms and then sold to their respective halves as ideals, morals and values.
The only way anything changes in the country is when politics are placed aside and people demand that that philosophies be shaped ideals, morals and values.
Unfortunately, the branding of our political parties has become so entwined into society over the past 50 or so years that asking someone to place their political leanings aside would be like asking them to give up their individuality.
This is not a Democrat or Republican failure. Democrats and Republicans are the failures.
(https://i.imgur.com/edBQBeJ.gif)
Quote from: Benny B on November 06, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
The only way anything changes in the country is when politics are placed aside and people demand that that philosophies be shaped ideals, morals and values.
I understand what you're saying here, Benny, and I want to agree with it.
But then I read this again and my reaction is: "Whose ideals? Whose morals? Whose values?"
I think most of us Scoopers could sit down and talk rationally and come up with definitions and/or philosophies of these concepts, but inevitably there will be those who say, "I am a Christian, and my ideals, morals and values are superior to yours; this is a Christian country, and if you don't like it you can leave." There will be others who reject all religious connection to ideals, morals and values, saying: "Religion is what got us into this mess."
I guess what I'm saying is that it's about more than politics when you bring in these points. But the politicians and those who want to "choose sides" often speak of their ideals, morals and values in religious terms, even when it's totally unnecessary to do so. And the worst among them try to impose those terms on the rest of society, claiming their ideals, morals and values are superior.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 06, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
That's exactly the thing that frustrates me most. Try something. You don't need to have the perfect answer to start.
No disagreement from me.
Bump stocks. Never heard of them a month ago. Fix it.
Immigrant name translated from Arabic is 'I hate/want to kill Americans' (Scoop license please). Fix it.
Denied permit but can still purchase somehow. Fix it.
3 steps right there. Progress. 90% of Americans would agree with each. It shouldn't be this hard.
Quote from: Benny B on November 06, 2017, 08:57:35 AM
You probably don't know this, but making mental health care easily accessible and affordable offers a solution that's unrelated to the problem.
If you did know, well then trying to capitalize on a tragedy by pushing an unrelated healthcare agenda makes the problem worse.
I'm highlighting the hypocrisy of those who wish to evade the gun issue by claiming this is a mental health issue, while also doing nothing to improve mental health care in this country.
If they truly believe this is primarily a mental health issue (they don't), then why aren't they at least trying to do something about that?
(Hint: Because they don't care).
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 06, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
5 dead 24 wounded. What exactly is the point of that post?
Also is nobody going to address the fact that he just compared people who have abortions to those that have caused mass shootings?
It's probably best to not engage with crazy. Evoking a response is the only thing that motivates a troll. No response, and maybe, just maybe, the trolls will look for other targets where they are getting the response they crave.
Way too early, all we know is the guy was a staunch atheist and was discharged from the service after being court martialed. He was DENIED a gun permit. Again, these laws are already in place and he got it anyway. Thankfully the locals helped to chase him off by firing on him before he took his own life after a chase. Good for them.
Much more information will come out in time.
At some point we have to treat each other better. Some crazy socialist attacks Rand Paul while he mows his lawn. Another one tries to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen at a softball game. We have this crazy dude, the Vegas crazy dude, the Ft. Hood crazy dude, last week's truck driver in NYC, the list goes on.
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 06, 2017, 09:43:13 AM
Way too early, all we know is the guy was a staunch atheist and was discharged from the service after being court martialed. He was DENIED a gun permit. Again, these laws are already in place and he got it anyway. Thankfully the locals helped to chase him off by firing on him before he took his own life after a chase. Good for them.
Much more information will come out in time.
At some point we have to treat each other better. Some crazy socialist attacks Rand Paul while he mows his lawn. Another one tries to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen at a softball game. We have this crazy dude, the Vegas crazy dude, the Ft. Hood crazy dude, last week's truck driver in NYC, the list goes on.
So it's "way too early" but last week it wasn't "way too early" to get on Twitter and go on about the vetting process (one that has been by and large very successful since 9/11)? Makes sense.
Quote from: B. McBannerson on November 06, 2017, 09:43:13 AM
Way too early, all we know is the guy was a staunch atheist and was discharged from the service after being court martialed. He was DENIED a gun permit. Again, these laws are already in place and he got it anyway. Thankfully the locals helped to chase him off by firing on him before he took his own life after a chase. Good for them.
Much more information will come out in time.
At some point we have to treat each other better. Some crazy socialist attacks Rand Paul while he mows his lawn. Another one tries to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen at a softball game. We have this crazy dude, the Vegas crazy dude, the Ft. Hood crazy dude, last week's truck driver in NYC, the list goes on.
Nicely done. The only two you talked about beyond "crazy dude" were the "atheist" and the "socialist."
Look in the mirror before lecturing Scoop on treating each other better.
Oh ... and you've been banned, which makes you a Scoop criminal every time you post.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2017, 06:50:23 AM
I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.
So we could save thousands of lives - but let's not even try cuz some people will still get killed.
Wow.
Quote from: jsglow on November 06, 2017, 08:59:39 AM
82 and I are agreeing here. From what the governor said, he was denied a Texas gun permit.
Look guys. Take the defacto default political positions out of it for just a moment.
Vegas? Bump stocks, easy.
Guy from Uzbekistan? I know some want 'open' borders but c'mon. Easy.
Sutherland Springs? I honestly don't know.
"Bump stocks? Easy" Well, they are back on the market already, so obviously not easy.
"Guy from Uzbekistan" How about guy from Vegas or guy from Texas or guy from any other US state?
"Sutherland Springs" That one actually is easy. A violent convicted felon is able to walk in a gun store and buy assault rifles and mega ammunition. We are a sick, sick, country to allow this.
I'm not knocking your post, Glow. We are all frustrated by these shootings. But there are many things that can be done to save thousands of our countrymen - black and white, left and right. They won't until we get leaders who are not cowed by the gun lobby
As VBMG said, to do nothing is insane.
But above all else - Save the Babies! Save the Babies!
Pro-Life, my a$$.
Quote from: Jockey on November 06, 2017, 09:48:15 AM
So we could save thousands of lives - but let's not even try cuz some people will still get killed.
Wow.
That's the argument gun supporters make every time. It's disgusting.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 06, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
That's exactly the thing that frustrates me most. Try something. You don't need to have the perfect answer to start.
I agree. What frustrates me the most is that our so called representatives don't really want a solution. They are more interested in holding or gaining power and the issue of gun control serves both sides as all they want is our vote. If only we the electorate would vote out all the bums and then 2 years later vote out all the ones that were just elected and keep doing that until they got the message many something will get done. I know that is not going to happen and so I guess this is the new normal.
Quote from: Jockey on November 06, 2017, 09:48:15 AM
So we could save thousands of lives - but let's not even try cuz some people will still get killed.
Wow.
Why prevent North Korea from getting nukes when someone could get stabbed to death in Seoul anyhow?
Some good conversation here, but we all know there are those that will dig their heels in and argue this one beyond moderation.
Sorry folks. And even more apologies to all victims of gun violence :(