1. We're still a bad defensive team. Way too many open looks, not fighting enough for rebounds, too many bad fouls
2. We're still going to live and die by the 3. We have good shooters but a pretty limited post game
3. Sam Hauser is gonna be good, but only in the right lineups. If he has to play down low a lot, his upside will be limited
4. Markus Howard will be be very good, period. (as long as he's patient with his game)
5. Contributions from freshmen will be limited. Elliott looks comfortable at times but still seems a bit skiddish. Others will need to pick it up.
6. Cheatham shoots this year! Good to see him back to his old self.
Kinda negative overall, but this was not a great showing today. Makes me a little worried about the Maui tournament, TBH.
Rowsey might be the most important player on the team
Nobody got more hurt than they were coming into the game.
Markus isn't a point guard.
- Most teams wouldn't shoot in an empty gym as well as Lindenwood did in the first half. That said, close-outs need to be better. How many times can you give up the wide-open corner three before realizing you need someone defending that?
- Cheatham can go to his right, but can only finish with his left. I guess progress is progress.
- When the shots weren't falling, Anim, Cheatham, and Elliott all showed they could step up.
- Markus is not a point guard. He was absolutely terrible with the ball in his hands. How many times did he recognize the double too late and turn it over? By the end of the game, Cheatham and Elliott were bringing it up because Markus was a turnover machine. Based on today, we may need to start the #M2NBAGL hashtag instead.
- Heldt had a few nice moves in the low post. Nothing fancy, but efficient. I think he can be better offensively than many suspect.
- Teams with multiple shooters will give us problems, especially early before the frosh get acclimated and Froling is eligible. Lack of size on the perimeter hurts. Purdue looks like an even worse matchup early after this.
- Really liked Anim today. He probably made the most positive contributions.
So.... time to start recruiting a 2018 PG in earnest?
Did John/Eke play at all?
Any box score?
John and Cain played minor minutes in the 1st. Ike didn't play at all.
http://www.gomarquette.com/gametracker/launch/gt_mbaskbl.html?event=1560678&school=marq&sport=mbaskbl&camefrom=&startschool=& (http://www.gomarquette.com/gametracker/launch/gt_mbaskbl.html?event=1560678&school=marq&sport=mbaskbl&camefrom=&startschool=&)
Didn't watch but heard we often went ultra small with Sam at the 5 to deal with their 0 in, 5 out offense. Exhibition or not, allowing a d2 team to dictate style of play is less than ideal.
Quote from: WindyCityGoldenEagle on November 04, 2017, 03:51:52 PM
Didn't watch but heard we often went ultra small with Sam at the 5 to deal with their 0 in, 5 out offense. Exhibition or not, allowing a d2 team to dictate style of play is less than ideal.
We were without Rowsey and (pretty much) Theo, one who will definitely start and the other who I personally think will get the most minutes of any player on the team at the 5.
Let's keep in mind that Syracuse lost an exhibition game to a D2 school in 2009 and ended up with a 1 seed and in the 2010 Final Four.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 04, 2017, 03:56:42 PM
We were without Rowsey and (pretty much) Theo, one who will definitely start and the other who I personally think will get the most minutes of any player on the team at the 5.
Let's keep in mind that Syracuse lost an exhibition game to a D2 school in 2009 and ended up with a 1 seed and in the 2010 Final Four.
Agree with everything you say here. I don't look too much into exhibitions or secret scrimmages. But to let a d2 team dictate style of play (even if we're short on personnel) is not something that should happen, even in an exhibition game.
We played primarily zone for the first 25 minutes. Lindenwood scored 54 points.
We played primarily man to man the last 15 minutes. Lindenwood scored 25 points the rest of the game and we forced a lot of turnovers.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on November 04, 2017, 04:03:36 PM
We played primarily zone for the first 25 minutes. Lindenwood scored 54 points.
We played primarily man to man the last 15 minutes. Lindenwood scored 25 points the rest of the game and we forced a lot of turnovers.
Huh? I don't think we played a single possession of zone?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 04, 2017, 04:08:18 PM
Huh? I don't think we played a single possession of zone?
It was more of a hybrid but it was a lot of zone at the top. It wasn't a typical 2-3 but it wasn't our base man to man either.
I was also drinking so maybe my viewing was a little distorted. But it looked like zone from where I was sitting.
UWM shoots 48%, Lindenwood 56% not a good trend. I don't see any change from last year at all.
Horrid defense, bad rototations, beat off the ball. What has the team been practicing?
I hope Howard was hung over.
Lindenwood well coached. Great exhibition opponent.
Rowsey will play a lot of minutes at PG. You can see why we were recruiting Grimes.
I suspect there will be sprints later tonight.
Haani and Anim studs of game.
Wojo should apologize to everybody for that last inbounds play with 1 second left. Throw done to the oppisite free throw line, good grief.
Mu didn't play zone, they rotated with help defense and Lundenwood made the extra pass and made 10 3's in the 1st half.
Defense much much better in the second half. MU should never set a pick out top for Markus, he is a TO machine if the other team doubles him.
Staff MUST find a point for 2018. Mission critical
Quote from: blikemike2 on November 04, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
Wojo should apologize to everybody for that last inbounds play with 1 second left. Throw done to the oppisite free throw line, good grief.
100% agree. A 3/4 court pass ends the game, regardless of who recovers it. There should have been at least one player beyond half court on that inbound.
I wonder if sometimes Wojo overthinks some of the easy stuff, you know, like an inbound play with 1 second left. All he needed to tell the guys was to make sure the ball gets past half court. That's it. How did we screw that one up?
Sam had a nice game, but why did he not just toss the in bound pass down court with only 1 second to go.
It is one game. Theo is injured. MU was playing without Rowsey. But there aren't a lot of positives. It appears that our freshmen are not going to be instant impact players. No disgrace in that. It is rare that freshman outside the top 100 provide instant production. Must keep expectations realistic.
Quote from: blikemike2 on November 04, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
Wojo should apologize to everybody for that last inbounds play with 1 second left. Throw done to the oppisite free throw line, good grief.
Mu didn't play zone, they rotated with help defense and Lundenwood made the extra pass and made 10 3's in the 1st half.
Defense much much better in the second half. MU should never set a pick out top for Markus, he is a TO machine if the other team doubles him.
Staff MUST find a point for 2018. Mission critical
Artie Green baby.
Markus played his worst game in college.
Here's what I hope. I know that coaches have limited time with the kids. I hope Rowsey walked in the locker room after the game and said, 'Nobody shower. Get your arse on the bus now. We're heading to Kasten so cancel whatever evening plans you have.'
My takeaways:
We didn't lose.
We learned a lot about areas we need to improve.
win-win.
Did not see a second.....
But with these comments.....
We lose to Purdue.....
And bet the house that Vermont kicks our bütt too.....
This is exactly how they play.....and they are not a middle of the road D3 team......
Quote from: burger on November 04, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Did not see a second.....
But with these comments.....
We lose to Purdue.....
And bet the house that Vermont kicks our bütt too.....
This is exactly how they play.....and they are not a middle of the road D3 team......
I'll take you up on that Vermont bet.
Quote from: burger on November 04, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Did not see a second.....
But with these comments.....
We lose to Purdue.....
And bet the house that Vermont kicks our bütt too.....
This is exactly how they play.....and they are not a middle of the road D3 team......
Lol. It's one game, and an exhibition at that. I didn't see any of it either but I'm not ready to jump of the bridge. No Rowsey. Markus a TO machine and not hitting his shots. Not overly concerned about this.
Purdue is going to be real tough. I picked a loss there without much hesitation in my predictions. But I expect this team to have the kinks ironed out by Vermont. If not, we'll be in trouble.
Quote from: forgetful on November 04, 2017, 05:29:07 PM
My takeaways:
We didn't lose.
We learned a lot about areas we need to improve.
win-win.
I agree, a picture is worth a 1,000 words and the Players seen that. A 40 minute coaching moment.
Quote from: jsglow on November 04, 2017, 05:21:20 PM
Markus played his worst game in college.
I wasn't there today, but worse than the Nova upset last year? Yikes.
If I'm looking for a bright side here, I'd say that this result is better for the team in the long run than if Lindenwood was ice cold and just rolled over for us. Weaknesses exposed for the coaching staff to target but nothing on tape for opponents to look at.
Bright sides
1. Sacar a sophomore and is way ahead of where JJJ was as a sophomore.
2. Elliot is really going to become very good as he progresses through his career.
3. When Rowsey comes back Markus will not have to play 38 minutes and Anim and Haanif will not have to play around 36 minutes each.
4. Sam hit some really nice two foot jumpers.
5. 0-7 from three will not count in Howard's season statistics.
6. Hopefully, John played so little because of his ankle.
Quote from: barfolomew on November 04, 2017, 06:47:42 PM
I wasn't there today, but worse than the Nova upset last year? Yikes.
If I'm looking for a bright side here, I'd say that this result is better for the team in the long run than if Lindenwood was ice cold and just rolled over for us. Weaknesses exposed for the coaching staff to target but nothing on tape for opponents to look at.
Judging against the competition, yes. The film room is going to be brutal on him tomorrow.
I know some are saying the Lindenwood game was a good thing for MU because weaknesses were exposed and can be worked on.
But what if one of the main weaknesses is the head coach?
The defensive scheme hasn't worked since Wojo came to MU, and that end-of-game situation is something that even grade school coaches know how to handle.
Quote from: bilsu on November 04, 2017, 06:58:49 PM
Bright sides
1. Sacar a sophomore and is way ahead of where JJJ was as a sophomore.
2. Elliot is really going to become very good as he progresses through his career.
3. When Rowsey comes back Markus will not have to play 38 minutes and Anim and Haanif will not have to play around 36 minutes each.
4. Sam hit some really nice two foot jumpers.
5. 0-7 from three will not count in Howard's season statistics.
6. Hopefully, John played so little because of his ankle.
I agree with this analysis. I'll add that getting the ball into Rowsey's hands will help too. BTW, Markus didn't shoot well against UWM either.
We have a few things to work on, but I am still very enthusiastic for the coming season.
Hauser-Looked like the best player on the court. You can rely on him every single night to bring it.
Cheatham- Loved how he attacked the rim, and he hit his open 3's. He's a big piece to this teams success and if tonight was anything to go off of...I'm optimistic
Howard-Terrible game all around, but I guarantee you he won't shoot 0-7 again, especially when Rowsey is back in the swing of things
Anim-I can already picture his penetration to the paint and kicking it out to Hauser, Howard, and Rowsey all year. He looked good tonight (gotta hit the free throws though)
Heldt- Looks faster than Last year. He will not get passed in the depth chart as many seem to think
Elliott- Kid just looks like he "gets it". He's going to be an incredible player when it's all said and done. Once he gets some weight to him...Watch out
We are going to win games we shouldn't this year and lose games we shouldn't. Although tonight wasn't pretty, I really liked what I saw from Anim and Cheatham who I think are 2 of the most important pieces for success this year. Im confident that Hauser, Howard and Rowsey will do their thing. It's about who else steps up that can take this team to the next level.
One exhibition game. Played much better towards the end. Lindenwood was hot at the beginning. It's a process.
Quote from: jsglow on November 04, 2017, 05:21:20 PM
Here's what I hope. I know that coaches have limited time with the kids. I hope Rowsey walked in the locker room after the game and said, 'Nobody shower. Get your arse on the bus now. We're heading to Kasten so cancel whatever evening plans you have.'
I don't know that the guy who was suspended for the preseason would get a great reaction making a comment like that.
Worrisome that the early returns of the defense are so poor. The bar is pretty low for improving from last year.
Quote from: jsglow on November 04, 2017, 05:21:20 PM
Artie Green baby.
Markus played his worst game in college.
Here's what I hope. I know that coaches have limited time with the kids. I hope Rowsey walked in the locker room after the game and said, 'Nobody shower. Get your arse on the bus now. We're heading to Kasten so cancel whatever evening plans you have.'
Glow—the conversations you imagine that the team keeps having is priceless.
I know you are hopeful that Rowsey did that today........but that didn't happen.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on November 04, 2017, 07:01:10 PM
I know some are saying the Lindenwood game was a good thing for MU because weaknesses were exposed and can be worked on.
But what if one of the main weaknesses is the head coach?
The defensive scheme hasn't worked since Wojo came to MU, and that end-of-game situation is something that even grade school coaches know how to handle.
Jesus F*cking Christ....
Quote from: jsglow on November 04, 2017, 05:21:20 PM
Artie Green baby.
Markus played his worst game in college.
Here's what I hope. I know that coaches have limited time with the kids. I hope Rowsey walked in the locker room after the game and said, 'Nobody shower. Get your arse on the bus now. We're heading to Kasten so cancel whatever evening plans you have.'
Alex. I'll have "lame coaching cliches" for $200.
Hey, Mayfair is back!
Quote from: burger on November 04, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Did not see a second.....
But with these comments.....
We lose to Purdue.....
And bet the house that Vermont kicks our bütt too.....
This is exactly how they play.....and they are not a middle of the road D3 team......
Division 2 ya dumba$$.
Cue the "fire wojo" posts after one exhibition game in 3...2...1....
Quote from: forgetful on November 04, 2017, 05:29:07 PM
My takeaways:
We didn't lose.
We learned a lot about areas we need to improve.
win-win.
Your takeaway was that this was a win-win? Honestly? Stunning.
Quote from: barfolomew on November 04, 2017, 06:47:42 PM
I wasn't there today, but worse than the Nova upset last year? Yikes.
If I'm looking for a bright side here, I'd say that this result is better for the team in the long run than if Lindenwood was ice cold and just rolled over for us. Weaknesses exposed for the coaching staff to target but nothing on tape for opponents to look at.
I was there and yes. I'm not ready to jump ship. But they won by 2. Against a d2 school. Granted a very very good d2. But still a d2. Howard was bad
Is Lindenwood a "very very good d2"? Are they even a good D2? I thought I saw a graphic that had them one game over .500 last year. Maybe I misread it.
Butler squeaked by a D2 school today. Back in 2009, Syracuse lost to D2 Le Moyne, then won the Big East with a 15-3 conference record, a #1 ranking along the way, and a Sweet 16 appearance.
This isn't the end, but it certainly isn't an auspicious beginning. The entire game long, it felt like if we just strung a few stops and shots together, we'd be able to run away and get a comfortable 10-point win. But it never came. We'd string a few stops and shots, then they'd come right back, either rebuilding the lead or later keeping it close. The final shot just as easily could have fallen as bounced out.
I'm left hoping that Rowsey is the key to this team, but while Markus is a great shooting guard, I'm worried about him as a point guard. I think AR will need to play 35+ a night if this is the point play we see from Markus. And not just the defense or the shooting. Markus struggled to initiate offense for others. He turned it over far too often. He was credited with 5 turnovers and that feels like it wasn't enough. I can clearly remember 4 times he turned it over in a double-team trap, and I'm sure they doubled him like that more than 4 times. Picked up the dribble too early, saw the double too late, he looked like an 18-year-old freshman out there.
Quote from: tower912 on November 04, 2017, 09:29:55 PM
Hey, Mayfair is back!
Signs that the basketball season is approaching :)
Quote from: burger on November 04, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Did not see a second.....
But with these comments.....
We lose to Purdue.....
And bet the house that Vermont kicks our bütt too.....
This is exactly how they play.....and they are not a middle of the road D3 team......
Also did not see a second.....
And I don't know a thing about the opponent (or how to use ellipses).....
And we were missing a starter and another key player.....
But bet the house that Vermont kicks our butt.....
As will every other team on our schedule.....
Yes, hard to believe we will go 0-31.....
But it's true. It's already set in stone.....
That's not an opinion at all, it's a fact.....
Fire Wojo today.
Today convinced me of the fact that nobody plays to the level of their ooonent better than Marquette. Either that, or someone needs to turn off the CPU assist in the BC.
Quote from: jsglow on November 04, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Judging against the competition, yes. The film room is going to be brutal on him tomorrow.
I think we were lucky yesterday, because Lindenwood was so hot. Had they had an off shooting night, we would be thinking our defense was good. Now the coaches can really hammer down on this. Look at it this way. Howard was 0-7. Was this due to good defense or Howard just having a bad day? I do not believe Lindenwood plays better defense than Big East teams. Sometimes the ball goes in in spite of good defense and sometimes wide open shots miss in spite of poor defense.
Quote from: bilsu on November 05, 2017, 05:14:33 AM
I think we were lucky yesterday, because Lindenwood was so hot. Had they had an off shooting night, we would be thinking our defense was good. Now the coaches can really hammer down on this.
We were so terrible defensively last year with much of the same players. If they need a crummy performance against a d2 to convince the players they need to play d - it will be a long year. I am sure next week will be better.
A good first game opponent (even if only an exhibition). Goes to show you that very good former HS players with very good coaching having an exceptionally good game can give a team with superior talent a run for their money especially at the beginning of the season before assignments and weak spots are worked on. Relax, a lot of new players with learning to obtain and experience to gain. Good things on the horizon. Do we the fans have the patience?
One of the things that really bothered Markus on the offensive end was ball pressure. He'd look for the screen at the top of the key and instead of switching it or fighting over the screen on D Lindenwood would immediately aggressively double. Markus had no handle for that. Multiple turnovers.
In 2012-13, Miami lost an exhibition game to St. Leo's, coached by the same guy who now coaches Lindenwood. Miami went on to win the ACC regular season and tournament. Eventually they lost in the S16 to some school from Milwaukee. In other words, don't read too much into the result.
I guess I don't know what people expected. They were a poor defensive team last year. Playing largely the same players, they were poor yesterday. Get John healthy, and get Froling eligible, and there will be improvement. But really the key is the other personnel getting experience and Morrow joining next year.
I expect a lot of games like last year.
One of the things that crossed my mind was that Wojo should have offered the Lindenwood coach a job literally in the handshake line. Those boys were prepared. Now admittedly I suspect that we didn't game-plan for them. But our adjustment to their having aggressively game-planned for us was mediocre at best.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 05, 2017, 07:35:59 AM
In 2012-13, Miami lost an exhibition game to St. Leo's, coached by the same guy who now coaches Lindenwood. Miami went on to win the ACC regular season and tournament. Eventually they lost in the S16 to some school from Milwaukee. In other words, don't read too much into the result.
I guess I don't know what people expected. They were a poor defensive team last year. Playing largely the same players, they were poor yesterday. Get John healthy, and get Froling eligible, and there will be improvement. But really the key is the other personnel getting experience and Morrow joining next year.
I expect a lot of games like last year.
Even with many of the same players, shouldn't the defense improve from year-to-year?
I know someone who was at all the practices last year and the problems on defense that were evident on day one were the same during the final practice. Wojo truly believed it was a lack of effort that caused the problems.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on November 05, 2017, 09:24:14 AM
Even with many of the same players, shouldn't the defense improve from year-to-year?
Why?
A few more observations...
STH stopped by to pick-up his award on the way to his wedding...with his groomsmen.
Many Scoopers are repopulating based on the pictures submitted during the game.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 05, 2017, 09:28:31 AMWhy?
Experience in the system coupled with the reports that they spent the entire off-season working on defense seem to be indicators that we could reasonably expect improvement.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on November 05, 2017, 09:24:14 AM
Even with many of the same players, shouldn't the defense improve from year-to-year?
I know someone who was at all the practices last year and the problems on defense that were evident on day one were the same during the final practice. Wojo truly believed it was a lack of effort that caused the problems.
I hope he is right. If not it is going to be a long season.
Quote from: MU82 on November 04, 2017, 11:08:04 PM
Also did not see a second.....
And I don't know a thing about the opponent (or how to use ellipses).....
And we were missing a starter and another key player.....
But bet the house that Vermont kicks our butt.....
As will every other team on our schedule.....
Yes, hard to believe we will go 0-31.....
But it's true. It's already set in stone.....
That's not an opinion at all, it's a fact.....
Fire Wojo today.
I think we makes the NCAA's if we get things straightened out......But Vermont will be a very tough win for us given what we do poorly on defense....They do incredibly well.....
I think they were 24-0 in league last year.....Sure a Kentucky or Big 10 school can lay the wood to them.....We certainly can't.....
Very efficient.....Take care of the ball.....will present a myriad of problems given our sub 300 defensive prowess.....
Talk to you guys after the game.....For the "told you so".....One way or the other.....
Quote from: burger on November 05, 2017, 11:17:16 AM
I think we makes the NCAA's if we get things straightened out......But Vermont will be a very tough win for us given what we do poorly on defense....They do incredibly well.....
I think they were 24-0 in league last year.....Sure a Kentucky or Big 10 school can lay the wood to them.....We certainly can't.....
Very efficient.....Take care of the ball.....will present a myriad of problems given our sub 300 defensive prowess.....
Talk to you guys after the game.....For the "told you so".....One way or the other.....
Again, I will take you up on a Vermont bet...
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 04, 2017, 10:56:36 PM
Is Lindenwood a "very very good d2"? Are they even a good D2? I thought I saw a graphic that had them one game over .500 last year. Maybe I misread it.
Butler squeaked by a D2 school today. Back in 2009, Syracuse lost to D2 Le Moyne, then won the Big East with a 15-3 conference record, a #1 ranking along the way, and a Sweet 16 appearance.
This isn't the end, but it certainly isn't an auspicious beginning. The entire game long, it felt like if we just strung a few stops and shots together, we'd be able to run away and get a comfortable 10-point win. But it never came. We'd string a few stops and shots, then they'd come right back, either rebuilding the lead or later keeping it close. The final shot just as easily could have fallen as bounced out.
I'm left hoping that Rowsey is the key to this team, but while Markus is a great shooting guard, I'm worried about him as a point guard. I think AR will need to play 35+ a night if this is the point play we see from Markus. And not just the defense or the shooting. Markus struggled to initiate offense for others. He turned it over far too often. He was credited with 5 turnovers and that feels like it wasn't enough. I can clearly remember 4 times he turned it over in a double-team trap, and I'm sure they doubled him like that more than 4 times. Picked up the dribble too early, saw the double too late, he looked like an 18-year-old freshman out there.
My brother said that Lindenwood was #2 when they played them last year
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 04, 2017, 10:56:36 PM
I'm left hoping that Rowsey is the key to this team, but while Markus is a great shooting guard, I'm worried about him as a point guard. I think AR will need to play 35+ a night if this is the point play we see from Markus. And not just the defense or the shooting. Markus struggled to initiate offense for others. He turned it over far too often. He was credited with 5 turnovers and that feels like it wasn't enough. I can clearly remember 4 times he turned it over in a double-team trap, and I'm sure they doubled him like that more than 4 times. Picked up the dribble too early, saw the double too late, he looked like an 18-year-old freshman out there.
Word. I was longing some Traci as the game went along.
Look, Markus is a wonderful player and a great kid. But he was ill suited for that role, at least for yesterday, and it was obvious to all 500 of us in the arena. (I jest. The students actually came out wonderfully for an exhibition nearly filling the lower bowl corner in all areas except directly behind the band. Kudos kids.)
Quote from: jsglow on November 05, 2017, 12:09:57 PMWord. I was longing some Traci as the game went along.
I was just discussing this the other day. I think Traci would've carved out 15-20 minutes for himself last year. This year, I think he would play a significant role similar to how Duane did. Maybe he never would've been the star, but he could've been a huge contributor here. And defensively, he would improve us.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
I was just discussing this the other day. I think Traci would've carved out 15-20 minutes for himself last year. This year, I think he would play a significant role similar to how Duane did. Maybe he never would've been the star, but he could've been a huge contributor here. And defensively, he would improve us.
And how 'bout those effing beer prices brew? Crime. But I needed to drink.
Quote from: jsglow on November 05, 2017, 12:22:46 PM
And how 'bout those effing beer prices brew? Crime. But I needed to drink.
I was at work yesterday...off for every other gameday the rest of the calendar year. Though 2018 starts with 8 straight games on days I work :-[
I have a feeling any price hikes this year will be bracing us for next year. Just talked to Joe True the other day and he said they're finalizing prices. I'm guessing we'll see something to get an idea of what it looks like before too long.
Quote from: jsglow on November 05, 2017, 12:22:46 PM
And how 'bout those effing beer prices brew? Crime. But I needed to drink.
$9.50, ai-na? Will be spending more time at Turners pre-gaming it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2017, 12:27:07 PM
I was at work yesterday...off for every other gameday the rest of the calendar year. Though 2018 starts with 8 straight games on days I work :-[
I have a feeling any price hikes this year will be bracing us for next year. Just talked to Joe True the other day and he said they're finalizing prices. I'm guessing we'll see something to get an idea of what it looks like before too long.
In all fairness this wasn't an MU thing but we sure as hell noticed, both for all menu items in the Club and a nice craft up on our upper deck corner.
Ike didn't play which means he is probably redshirting or he is hurt
Also, what I saw from the game is that we are going to be a fun team to watch when the team is clicking but if our defense can't hold teams under 80 its going to be rough. Up and down season
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2017, 12:27:07 PM
I was at work yesterday...off for every other gameday the rest of the calendar year. Though 2018 starts with 8 straight games on days I work :-[
I have a feeling any price hikes this year will be bracing us for next year. Just talked to Joe True the other day and he said they're finalizing prices. I'm guessing we'll see something to get an idea of what it looks like before too long.
Was hoping they would go the way of Atlanta =(
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on November 05, 2017, 04:28:57 PM
Was hoping they would go the way of Atlanta =(
With these owners? No chance in hell. These guys will squeeze every single penny out of everything they can.
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on November 05, 2017, 03:20:31 PM
Ike didn't play which means he is probably redshirting or he is hurt
Or that the game was always close so we needed to play our best players.
How is security.....
BYOB?????
$40 is pretty steep considering the average MU intake.....
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2017, 05:29:49 PM
Or that the game was always close so we needed to play our best players.
Can't expect Ike to get minutes against a power like Lindenwood. Wojo will get him minutes when we play the cupcake part of our schedule.
To Tiny Tim---CLEAN IT UP!
Yesterday was not a good performance but everyone is way over-analyzing it, which is I guess what we all do. This is the same team that took down two top 10 teams last year only to crap the bed a bunch more against lesser opponents and end up back on the bubble. I think you are going to see a lot more of that inconsistency this year with another combo of lot of talent and a lot of inexperience. Prepare for a roller coaster or prepare to be disappointed. Next two years, if most players stick around...the inexperience part goes away and we *should* see more consistency.
Quote from: TheyWereCones on November 05, 2017, 09:24:07 PM
Yesterday was not a good performance but everyone is way over-analyzing it, which is I guess what we all do. This is the same team that took down two top 10 teams last year only to crap the bed a bunch more against lesser opponents and end up back on the bubble. I think you are going to see a lot more of that inconsistency this year with another combo of lot of talent and a lot of inexperience. Prepare for a roller coaster or prepare to be disappointed. Next two years, if most players stick around...the inexperience part goes away and we *should* see more consistency.
I have to agree with your points. What I could see is that this team again will be a step slow at almost every position. Heldt, Hauser and Cheatham are not quick
jumpers, play below the rim. Sacar is really the only one with some quickness a foot, Howard is a step slow, could not defend the Lindenwood guards. You can teach
defense all you want, but if you are not quick enough, the offensive player will get a step on you, then you have to double and today they then send it out to the open three point shooter. This team needs to learn how to play zone. How does Wojo expect to D up with 2 undersized guards?
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 06, 2017, 12:23:12 AM
I have to agree with your points. What I could see is that this team again will be a step slow at almost every position. Heldt, Hauser and Cheatham are not quick
jumpers, play below the rim. Sacar is really the only one with some quickness a foot, Howard is a step slow, could not defend the Lindenwood guards. You can teach
defense all you want, but if you are not quick enough, the offensive player will get a step on you, then you have to double and today they then send it out to the open three point shooter. This team needs to learn how to play zone. How does Wojo expect to D up with 2 undersized guards?
I understand your zone point, but it's pretty much impossible to play zone with two sub 6 foot guards at the top too.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on November 06, 2017, 08:52:31 AM
I understand your zone point, but it's pretty much impossible to play zone with two sub 6 foot guards at the top too.
So what we've concluded is that Wojo has never shown the ability to teach defense, and even if he could teach defense, we don't have the personnel to do so.
We are going to need to shoot and make a lot of 3s this year to win.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on November 06, 2017, 08:56:26 AM
So what we've concluded is that Wojo has never shown the ability to teach defense, and even if he could teach defense, we don't have the personnel to do so.
We are going to need to shoot and make a lot of 3s this year to win.
Our defense was acceptable in Wojo's first year. We ranked 69th in the country, compared to 88th in 2016 and 165th last year. Last year especially was miserable.
The team should be very coachable this week.
Quote from: tower912 on November 06, 2017, 09:16:02 AM
The team should be very coachable this week.
As I was walking out the tunnel and shaking hands with Joe True as is my tradition I said, 'Run 'em until they all puke.'
I think we'll see a better performance on Friday.
Quote from: jsglow on November 06, 2017, 09:21:17 AM
As I was walking out the tunnel and shaking hands with Joe True as is my tradition I said, 'Run 'em until they all puke.'
I think we'll see a better performance on Friday.
I don't know why but this post made me think of the Oscar worthy movie Blue Chips. This sounds like something Happy...the "friend of the program" would do.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on November 06, 2017, 08:56:26 AM
So what we've concluded is that Wojo has never shown the ability to teach defense, and even if he could teach defense, we don't have the personnel to do so.
We are going to need to shoot and make a lot of 3s this year to win.
You hit it right on, the personnel. Undersized this year, next year much different.
Quote from: GloccaMorra on November 06, 2017, 09:31:55 AM
I don't know why but this post made me think of the Oscar worthy movie Blue Chips. This sounds like something Happy...the "friend of the program" would do.
Just to complete the loop and remind everyone that Joe has a really hard job and he's really good at it AND that chick and I are absolutely not his problem or worry ever, his response was, 'It'll be alright Glow. See you Friday.' ;D
I know that a lot of people like to be overly optimistic to try to balance out the #firewojo voices, but I'm still awfully surprised at the number of positive responses to the Lindenwood showing. There have to be some legitimate concerns about the ability of our defense to be in position and to actually move their feet when guarding the ball. And sure, bad shooting days will happen, but only having one player who shows a willingness to get to the rim (Anim) means that when we shoot poorly we'll struggle on offense.
Essentially, I see this year's team as being a less experienced version of the same mold we had last year. Score 80+ and/or shoot above 40% from 3 or we lose. That's not a great position to be in, IMO. I loved that Crean and Buzz rewarded deflections and steals to the point that it was on the wall in Kasten; I have to assume that banner is no longer hanging in the Wojo era.
Haani also showed a willingness to get to the rim. I was glad to see him driving to his right, even if he wasn't finishing with his right.
There's definitely work to be done, but I do think we probably saw a worst-case scenario with Lindenwood where a team shot out of their minds while we were cold as ice. I expect us to be better on both ends come Friday, though it could be a long season if not.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 06, 2017, 10:33:58 AM
I know that a lot of people like to be overly optimistic to try to balance out the #firewojo voices, but I'm still awfully surprised at the number of positive responses to the Lindenwood showing. There have to be some legitimate concerns about the ability of our defense to be in position and to actually move their feet when guarding the ball. And sure, bad shooting days will happen, but only having one player who shows a willingness to get to the rim (Anim) means that when we shoot poorly we'll struggle on offense.
Essentially, I see this year's team as being a less experienced version of the same mold we had last year. Score 80+ and/or shoot above 40% from 3 or we lose. That's not a great position to be in, IMO. I loved that Crean and Buzz rewarded deflections and steals to the point that it was on the wall in Kasten; I have to assume that banner is no longer hanging in the Wojo era.
Well with all you said above, what would You see as our record being this year, Wins/Losses?
Quote from: skianth16 on November 06, 2017, 10:33:58 AM
I know that a lot of people like to be overly optimistic to try to balance out the #firewojo voices, but I'm still awfully surprised at the number of positive responses to the Lindenwood showing. There have to be some legitimate concerns about the ability of our defense to be in position and to actually move their feet when guarding the ball. And sure, bad shooting days will happen, but only having one player who shows a willingness to get to the rim (Anim) means that when we shoot poorly we'll struggle on offense.
Essentially, I see this year's team as being a less experienced version of the same mold we had last year. Score 80+ and/or shoot above 40% from 3 or we lose. That's not a great position to be in, IMO. I loved that Crean and Buzz rewarded deflections and steals to the point that it was on the wall in Kasten; I have to assume that banner is no longer hanging in the Wojo era.
I just think there is only so much Wojo can do defensively with this group. There is more length and athleticism in this year's freshman class, and with Morrow waiting for next year. IOW, I think this is a roster construction issue more than a coaching one.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 06, 2017, 10:51:57 AM
I just think there is only so much Wojo can do defensively with this group. There is more length and athleticism in this year's freshman class, and with Morrow waiting for next year. IOW, I think this is a roster construction issue more than a coaching one.
To play devil's advocate, when every player was recruited by this coach (which is now the case) isn't it both?
I don't doubt we have the pieces in place, both on the roster and coming, for better defense, but speaking strictly to now, the blame for continued inadequate defense would seem to fall squarely on the coaching staff.
Right ultimately the coach is responsible for roster construction too.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on November 06, 2017, 10:44:01 AM
Well with all you said above, what would You see as our record being this year, Wins/Losses?
I'm thinking we're going to be a little better than a .500 team this year. Going through the schedule, I think we end up 16-14 heading into the BE tournament, assuming we either get 2 wins in Maui or we win at home against Vermont. If we do both of those things, then I'd say 17-13 is possible. I'm assuming we go 9-9 in what looks like a tough conference, but that means we need to pick up a few tough wins at home and not have any bad mistakes on the road.
I think we get a win in the first round of the BE tourney but lose in the second round. NCAA odds are not looking good to me this year.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 06, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
I'm thinking we're going to be a little better than a .500 team this year. Going through the schedule, I think we end up 16-14 heading into the BE tournament, assuming we either get 2 wins in Maui or we win at home against Vermont. If we do both of those things, then I'd say 17-13 is possible. I'm assuming we go 9-9 in what looks like a tough conference, but that means we need to pick up a few tough wins at home and not have any bad mistakes on the road.
I think we get a win in the first round of the BE tourney but lose in the second round. NCAA odds are not looking good to me this year.
Thanks, I think Kenpom agrees with your numbers.
I'm not real excited about this year's team. I still think we lack quite a few necessities (i.e. a bruiser on the boards, a defensive specialist that you can count of for a stop, and a true PG.) And, I'm also totally in the camp that believes it takes time to rebuild. However, this is the last year I'm willing to give Wojo a pass. He guys, his system, his a$$ on the line. Exhibition is exhibition, but everything counts from here on out. The team needs to wake up.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 06, 2017, 12:12:05 PM
I'm not real excited about this year's team. I still think we lack quite a few necessities (i.e. a bruiser on the boards, a defensive specialist that you can count of for a stop, and a true PG.) And, I'm also totally in the camp that believes it takes time to rebuild. However, this is the last year I'm willing to give Wojo a pass. He guys, his system, his a$$ on the line. Exhibition is exhibition, but everything counts from here on out. The team needs to wake up.
Jesus H. Christ!!!! Another brilliant opinion from a Marquette fan.
Maybe I've followed this program longer than most or maybe I have a better understanding of college basketball. Wojo is building this thing the way he and the Marquette administration would like. He isn't taking many transfers, other than grad transfers and the recruits who would have made up his senior class are all gone. He has 1 senior (who didn't play Saturday) and 2 juniors and the future is looking bright, but lets cast off another coach because he doesn't make the program an instant elite program.
Quote from: TedBaxter on November 06, 2017, 12:35:02 PM
Jesus H. Christ!!!! Another brilliant opinion from a Marquette fan.
Maybe I've followed this program longer than most or maybe I have a better understanding of college basketball. Wojo is building this thing the way he and the Marquette administration would like. He isn't taking many transfers, other than grad transfers and the recruits who would have made up his senior class are all gone. He has 1 senior (who didn't play Saturday) and 2 juniors and the future is looking bright, but lets cast off another coach because he doesn't make the program an instant elite program.
A - One exclamation point is plenty there, Hoss.
B - Wojo has had time to recruit and build a roster/program here at MU. Defense is a legitimate concern, and roster construction is as well. Making the tournament last year was great, but it would be even better to see sustained success. So if this year's team regresses and does not make the NCAAs, criticism of the coach and program are going to happen.
C- How much time are you willing to give him to get us back to being Top 25/NCAA regulars?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 06, 2017, 12:12:05 PM
I'm not real excited about this year's team. I still think we lack quite a few necessities (i.e. a bruiser on the boards, a defensive specialist that you can count of for a stop, and a true PG.) And, I'm also totally in the camp that believes it takes time to rebuild. However, this is the last year I'm willing to give Wojo a pass. He guys, his system, his a$$ on the line. Exhibition is exhibition, but everything counts from here on out. The team needs to wake up.
If you decide to no longer give Wojo a pass, I am sure he will be sad about that.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 06, 2017, 12:40:26 PM
A - One exclamation point is plenty there, Hoss.
B - Wojo has had time to recruit and build a roster/program here at MU. Defense is a legitimate concern, and roster construction is as well. Making the tournament last year was great, but it would be even better to see sustained success. So if this year's team regresses and does not make the NCAAs, criticism of the coach and program are going to happen.
C- How much time are you willing to give him to get us back to being Top 25/NCAA regulars?
Progress isn't always linear. I expect Marquette will be a regular NCAA participant starting in 2019 anyway.
Caught the first half replay last night. Saw enough.
They're better on handling ball screens. Poor communication in transition led to open looks for LU. A lot of breakdowns came from poor footwork at the point of attack, leading to help situations and corner looks. Correctable things, particularly picking up guys in transition.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 06, 2017, 12:40:26 PM
A - One exclamation point is plenty there, Hoss.
B - Wojo has had time to recruit and build a roster/program here at MU. Defense is a legitimate concern, and roster construction is as well. Making the tournament last year was great, but it would be even better to see sustained success. So if this year's team regresses and does not make the NCAAs, criticism of the coach and program are going to happen.
C- How much time are you willing to give him to get us back to being Top 25/NCAA regulars?
Because he wasn't hired until April 1st or late into a recruiting year, I would give him 5 years to show progress and with what he has on this roster and with Bailey, Joey Hauser and Morrow joining the team next year, this will be a top 15-20 team in 2018-2019.
Quote from: TedBaxter on November 06, 2017, 12:35:02 PM
Jesus H. Christ!!!! Another brilliant opinion from a Marquette fan.
Maybe I've followed this program longer than most or maybe I have a better understanding of college basketball. Wojo is building this thing the way he and the Marquette administration would like. He isn't taking many transfers, other than grad transfers and the recruits who would have made up his senior class are all gone. He has 1 senior (who didn't play Saturday) and 2 juniors and the future is looking bright, but lets cast off another coach because he doesn't make the program an instant elite program.
Ted, totally respect you and the insight you provide the board, so my questions below are honest.
1. Next year will be Wojo's 5th. How much time should be given for a rebuild?
2. speaking of elite programs and High school ball players today, how long can a program go without an NCAA tournament win before it starts to effect recruiting?
3a. Do you agree with the pieces i think we're missing?
3b. If so, do you see them in next year's class? I think Morrow is our bruiser, but I still think we missing the other 2
3c. If you don't agree, what am I missing?
Again honest questions. I am by no means a basketball expert.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 06, 2017, 01:53:10 PM
Ted, totally respect you and the insight you provide the board, so my questions below are honest.
1. Next year will be Wojo's 5th. How much time should be given for a rebuild?
2. speaking of elite programs and High school ball players today, how long can a program go without an NCAA tournament win before it starts to effect recruiting?
3a. Do you agree with the pieces i think we're missing?
3b. If so, do you see them in next year's class? I think Morrow is our bruiser, but I still think we missing the other 2
3c. If you don't agree, what am I missing?
Again honest questions. I am by no means a basketball expert.
Re how long a team can go without a win, that question should be how long can they go without a sweet 16, because nobody really has a banner detailing how many rounds of 32 they've made... except Creighton because they suck in March.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 06, 2017, 12:43:47 PM
If you decide to no longer give Wojo a pass, I am sure he will be sad about that.
Sorry that I don't have deep pockets and that i cant be an influential booster.
However, I have purchased season tickets since I graduated and have only lived in Milwaukee for 2 years since then. the rest of the years i donated the tickets so other can experience the games/atmosphere. Last year was the first time since I've purchased them where I wasn't able to fill my seats for each game.
Sorry "pass" isn't worth much in your eyes.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 06, 2017, 01:53:10 PM
Ted, totally respect you and the insight you provide the board, so my questions below are honest.
1. Next year will be Wojo's 5th. How much time should be given for a rebuild?
2. speaking of elite programs and High school ball players today, how long can a program go without an NCAA tournament win before it starts to effect recruiting?
3a. Do you agree with the pieces i think we're missing?
3b. If so, do you see them in next year's class? I think Morrow is our bruiser, but I still think we missing the other 2
3c. If you don't agree, what am I missing?
Again honest questions. I am by no means a basketball expert.
Not saying I'm an expert either. I guess the only real void, if you call it that, may be another guard who can handle the ball. I'm hoping Howard develops his PG skills and Cain can help in the backcourt. Still remain very high on Cain's potential.
I don't put much stock into young teams until early January.
Not sure if anyone said anything about the Wojo postgame comments. He seemed happy that his team got tested. Hear for yourself.
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=21288559
Quote from: skianth16 on November 06, 2017, 12:40:26 PM
A - One exclamation point is plenty there, Hoss.
B - Wojo has had time to recruit and build a roster/program here at MU. Defense is a legitimate concern, and roster construction is as well. Making the tournament last year was great, but it would be even better to see sustained success. So if this year's team regresses and does not make the NCAAs, criticism of the coach and program are going to happen.
C- How much time are you willing to give him to get us back to being Top 25/NCAA regulars?
I will give him a pass until Georgetown passes us up. Wojo is a failure, if Ewing gets Georgetown to top 25 before we do.
I'm not one to put any stock into an exhibition game no matter the talent level of either team. Not so much because of the aforementioned examples of Miami, Syracuse, et al, but because coaches approach these games differently. IOW, I don't believe that D-I coaches always approach an exhibition game with the intent to win.
Sure, this is all anecdotal, but there were two lineups on the floor yesterday that gave me some pause considering the personnel that Lindenwood had on the floor... I attributed this mostly to Rowsey's unavailability; however, there were also at least two instances in the second half where HC was bringing the ball up in the half court and exchanged a look with one of the other players as if to say "what the hell are you doing/why the hell are you there." The first time it happened, I shrugged it off as HC's intended target being new to the team, but the second time it happened, I realized that HC's intended target was responding to someone (I don't believe it was Wojo) calling out a play or instructions from the bench... which struck me as odd considering that these plays are usually called out to the PG or whoever has the ball at the top of the key, not your 2 or 3 off-the-ball.
Additionally, I gave some additional thought to the botched in-bounds play with 1.0 left... once I got over my initial "WTF are they doing" reaction, I came to the conclusion that Wojo ain't no spring chicken; he knows damn well what you do with 1.0 on the clock (or at the very least what you don't do). The fact that they did do it tells me Wojo wasn't trying to win the game... he was trying to maximize every opportunity to work on various situations with which they struggled last year.
Another thing i saw from the game is that it looks like so far from the UW-Milwaukee scrimmage and the exhibition against Lindenwood is that we might be hyping Jamal Cain up to much. I know they are just scrimmages but I feel like he is the most important freshman and will need him to contribute right away
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on November 06, 2017, 02:52:41 PM
Another thing i saw from the game is that it looks like so far from the UW-Milwaukee scrimmage and the exhibition against Lindenwood is that we might be hyping Jamal Cain up to much. I know they are just scrimmages but I feel like he is the most important freshman and will need him to contribute right away
Jamal looked like a typical frosh, with a little hesitation in his game and not letting the game flow freely and just play. He will be fine, once he makes a shot or two.