MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on September 02, 2017, 03:47:44 PM
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http://www.fox10tv.com/story/36268986/nurse-arrested-after-refusing-cops-order-to-draw-blood-from-unconscious-patient?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=meredithHub
Not all cops do bad things. Cops doing improper things does make it tougher for other cops to do their jobs well. It also makes it harder for communities/societies to buy into their involvement.
Not sure what the proper outcome here should be.
Good on the nurse for doing the right thing.
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Those the the actions of a cop used to getting his way, his time has passed.
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Yep. He's in big trouble and was waaaaaaaay out of bounds. My charge nurse daughter had this up on FB in about a nanosecond yesterday. That nurse's rules were very clear and not subject to negotiation without a proper court order.
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Kudos to her. May she sue the police department and win all the money.
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Kudos to her. May she sue the police department and win all the money.
Wouldn't the greater good be police departments learning their boundaries and not doing things like these in the future?
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Any other person in America would have been arrested for assault and unlawful detainment. The cop in this case was not arrested, was not fired and is still getting paid.
That is why people have issues with police. In cases where a clear abuse of power occurs they should be treated like any other civilian and charged with crimes immediately. If they would do so, a lot of distrust in police would vanish. These actions are used to justify distrust.
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Wouldn't the greater good be police departments learning their boundaries and not doing things like these in the future?
Totally. And that's exactly why I hope she wins a monster judgment. There's no way this is an oops or an isolated incident. For every instance as grotesquely unambiguous and publicized at this, how many have there been involving that officer and department in the past that didn't have this perfect storm of publicity and real-time video footage? The punishment for this type of stuff, multiplied by the likelihood of being found out, has to be severe enough for to deter the conduct in the future - and the only language that works is $$$.
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My wife is in nursing leadership and she was very disturbed by this. The hospital policies and police laws are very clear. Good for her for knowing them and doing the right thing. I'm not sure why no security or other personnel were there to support her.
She will get a monster judgement.
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Would be in the department's best interest to settle this quickly outside of court. And to fire the officer after the internal investigation.
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She's gonna get some money, and he should lose his job post haste. This wasn't some impulsive, split-second decision gone bad; he was clearly trying to intimidate her, and then got aggressive when she didn't play along. Inexcusable.
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Any other person in America would have been arrested for assault and unlawful detainment. The cop in this case was not arrested, was not fired and is still getting paid.
That is why people have issues with police. In cases where a clear abuse of power occurs they should be treated like any other civilian and charged with crimes immediately. If they would do so, a lot of distrust in police would vanish. These actions are used to justify distrust.
i'm a little surprised this cop hasn't been, at a bare minimum, suspended with/without pay. i don't know how due process works within the public sector, but this happened at the end of july! now that it has hit social media, watch how fast "something" happens
just tripped over this-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/02/utah-cop-put-on-leave-after-bodycam-video-shows-him-cuffing-nurse-for-refusing-to-draw-blood-on-unconscious-patient.html
i'm sure there will be more to come
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She will get a monster judgement.
One call, that's all. She'll be able to buy a new hospital.
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The nurse did the right thing.
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The answer is simple... get rid of those who protect and defend bad cops. Male police officers liable for their own "malpractice" insurance or whatever, i.e. make them pay for their own defense.
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One call, that's all. She'll be able to buy a new hospital.
tax payer subsidized too, ein'er?
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She has stated that she doesn't want to pursue legal action as long as corrective action is taken by his department. Noble choice.
Of course, if legal action is taken, seems likely any monetary judgement would be paid for by the taxpayers, right?
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She has stated that she doesn't want to pursue legal action as long as corrective action is taken by his department. Noble choice.
Of course, if legal action is taken, seems likely any monetary judgement would be paid for by the taxpayers, right?
Curious, what is her actual loss?
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You can sue for wrongful arrest.
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Curious, what is her actual loss?
She can file a civil rights claims for false arrest and excessive force against the arresting officer, and failure to intervene against the officers who stood by and let it happen. Her actual losses could include mental suffering and deprivation of rights.
Of course, in a case like this the punitive damages would likely outweigh the compensatory damages.
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The answer is simple... get rid of those who protect and defend bad cops. Male police officers liable for their own "malpractice" insurance or whatever, i.e. make them pay for their own defense.
You're abdicating getting rid of a public sector union. This is part of what unions do, protect all membership, good and bad.
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If the cop and his boss lose their jobs, great.
If the case serves as a cautionary tale to police forces everywhere, even better.
Whether it should be a winning lottery ticket for the nurse is another matter. I'd argue "no" and to her credit the nurse seems to agree.
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Whether it should be a winning lottery ticket for the nurse is another matter. I'd argue "no" and to her credit the nurse seems to agree.
Where does reasonable compensation for an injustice end and "winning lottery ticket" begin?
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Wouldn't the greater good be police departments learning their boundaries and not doing things like these in the future?
Most do, but whenever you have individuals involved they sometimes go overboard. Look at some of the school teachers involved with ANTIFA in Berkeley. We can isolate individuals and extrapolate to broader organizations but often the small tail wagging the dog. If Salt Lake City policing was an issue, it will come out, but more likely one cop who got agitated and went way overboard. He will pay the price ultimately, once they go through investigation.
Someone earlier upset that he is being paid, that's collectively bargained for as part of the union agreement.
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anyone understand why this cop was so adamant about getting a blood draw? if he doesn't know the law, regardless of the abuse he put the nurse through, he should not be a cop. other than being a power-hungry d!ck head, me thinks not very bright is the easy answer. this isn't like a little oopsie-doopsie, having a bad day thing
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I'm sure one of our attorney friends can say more but the imposition of a financial penalty on the department and the officer is intended to alter behavior going forward. Isn't that the intended objective? One could argue that the officer actually committed a crime and should face criminal prosecution. Not sure that's necessarily appropriate in the same way cops inb the field mitigate situations where no formal charge becomes necessary.
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I'm sure one of our attorney friends can say more but the imposition of a financial penalty on the department and the officer is intended to alter behavior going forward. Isn't that the intended objective? One could argue that the officer actually committed a crime and should face criminal prosecution. Not sure that's necessarily appropriate in the same way cops inb the field mitigate situations where no formal charge becomes necessary.
The bolded is the bottom line. He did commit a crime. Charge him. Let the union work for him keeping his job, let the union pay for his attorney in defending him in criminal prosecution, if they so choose. That is one of the purpose of unions.
But don't ignore the law. They are not above the law. Arrest him and charge him with assault and unlawful detention.
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Where does reasonable compensation for an injustice end and "winning lottery ticket" begin?
Very good question. For me, reasonable compensation would be in seeing that those who abused their authority/broke the law were properly punished. It appears as if the nurse in this case agrees with me. I wouldn't feel entitled to a check as a condition of "justice".
OTOH, I agree that sometimes "pain and suffering" is egregious enough to merit monetary compensation - I just feel that those cases should be the exception, not the rule. Maybe I'm uninformed and they already are, but that's not the impression I get.
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Very good question. For me, reasonable compensation would be in seeing that those who abused their authority/broke the law were properly punished. It appears as if the nurse in this case agrees with me. I wouldn't feel entitled to a check as a condition of "justice".
OTOH, I agree that sometimes "pain and suffering" is egregious enough to merit monetary compensation - I just feel that those cases should be the exception, not the rule. Maybe I'm uninformed and they already are, but that's not the impression I get.
I don't know. It wasn't a rhetorical question. But I do believe that in many cases - more often than the exception, I suppose - victims of misdeeds deserve compensation beyond just seeing a perpetrator punished.
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The guy in this case was a reserve policeman, who was struck in a DD accident (he was the victim), and the Idaho police are now thanking the nurse.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/state/idaho/article170972442.html
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Both are licensed by the state. If she violates the law, her license is lost for life. If he does, he is put on paid administrative leave. Nurses know to document everything. Every decision is life or death.
Don't ever eff with a nurse. She won't let go until arrests are made as they should be. Multiple laws broken.
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Both are licensed by the state. If she violates the law, her license is lost for life. If he does, he is put on paid administrative leave. Nurses know to document everything. Every decision is life or death.
Don't ever eff with a nurse. She won't let go until arrests are made as they should be. Multiple laws broken.
Got that right brother!
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I don't know. It wasn't a rhetorical question. But I do believe that in many cases - more often than the exception, I suppose - victims of misdeeds deserve compensation beyond just seeing a perpetrator punished.
I agree that it's a case by case basis - and we'd probably agree most of the time. Maybe not on the margins, but most of the time.
Regarding this case, I think monetary compensation isn't warranted. To her credit (IMO) the nurse apparently agrees.
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I'm curious what the response would be if a nurse grabbed a cop for no justifiable reason and held him hostage in her car. Jail time?
Why should this be any different? One could argue for leniency if he was doing his job appropriately...but in this case, he was so far out of bounds that any idiot could see that what he did was wrong.
So again, why not give him the same punishment they'd give a nurse for shoving a cop around and imprisoning him for 20 minutes?
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Interesting piece of trivia about the nurse in question ...
https://everipedia.org/wiki/alexandra-shaffer-wubbels-nurse-alpine-skier/
Alexandra "Alex" Luise Shaffer Wubbels (b. January 23rd, 1976) is an American Head Nurse and former Alpine skier who competed in the 1998 Winter Olympics and the 2002 Winter Olympics. She was the subject of a video that went viral in September 2017 where she is arrested after refusing to give a Police officer blood vials of an unconscious patient.​
In the year 1990, she moved to Utah from Colorado to ski and be educated at the Rowmark Academy of Salt Lake City. She was later named to the U.S. Ski Team and competed in the 1998 and 2002 Winter Olympics​.
Her husband is Olympic skier Cory Wubbels.
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I don't believe the "no interest in $"... time will tell. #CharacterRevealed?
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I don't believe the "no interest in $"... time will tell. #CharacterRevealed?
Would it be of higher character to not go after the PD on this?
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Would it be of higher character to not go after the PD on this?
a) Fine to "go after them" as in demanding they address the situation internally and bringing light to the mater (which she has done).
b) Fine to "go after them" as courts allow for civil damages.
c) Not fine to indicate you are not going to seek civil damages, get praise from folks for it, and then get a big payday.
We're through with a). Now it's a question of whether c) will occur.
Both are licensed by the state. If she violates the law, her license is lost for life.
Sounds like hyperbole. I think back to a hero of this board, Dr. Dao, the drug running, male prostitute hiring guy who fought with cops in a United airplane. He had lost his medical license... but later had it provisionally reinstated.
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In this case... I could see a cop being upset about not getting the blood... if he had reason to believe the person may have been under the influence and involved in a significant road accident. Now, he should have gone the proper route to obtain the blood, but I can understand a level of frustration he may have been feeling.
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In this case... I could see a cop being upset about not getting the blood... if he had reason to believe the person may have been under the influence and involved in a significant road accident. Now, he should have gone the proper route to obtain the blood, but I can understand a level of frustration he may have been feeling.
You are saying that you understand the cop's frustration that he had to follow the law.
And, without knowing what the victim is going to do, you don't take her word for it. Just because she is 1) not an abusive pig, and 2) she is a women, afterall - you question her motives.
Interesting take from such a law & order proponent.
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You are saying that you understand the cop's frustration that he had to follow the law.
And, without knowing what the victim is going to do, you don't take her word for it. Just because she is 1) not an abusive pig, and 2) she is a women, afterall - you question her motives.
Interesting take from such a law & order proponent.
Come on Jockey, the pig comment is unnecessary
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You are saying that you understand the cop's frustration that he had to follow the law.
Sort of. I can imagine someone being at the scene of an awful accident and perhaps having reason to believe one or more of the drivers involved were driving illegally... then, you get to the hospital and because the person isn't able to respond to your questions, you need a warrant.
Frustrated at red tape - albeit probably very important in THIS particular case - is understandable.
I'm not saying the cop isn't at fault or didn't act poorly -- just saying I can rationalize other reasons why he'd be frustrated / acting like a jagoff other than him just being "a devil pig" as you'd think of him.
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"Red tape?" It's a Constitutional right.
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There's no way I'm willing to just assume this is a passing instance for this guy or probably this department. Jockey's language is counterproductive, but an officer doesn't act that brazenly if he's used to following the law, respecting the 4th Amendment, or understanding his role as a public servant. This isn't just red tape here, its a complete disrespect for the constitutional rights of the people he is publicly funded to serve.
Not to get overly political, but with examples like these, I'd really like to see police and fire unions no longer exempted from legislation checking public sector unions.That would lead to a much more honest conversation about those unions and about the checks and balances on law enforcement.
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"Red tape?" It's a Constitutional right.
What is a constitutional right?
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What is a constitutional right?
You need a warrant to collect blood without permission. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment otherwise.
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Come on Jockey, the pig comment is unnecessary
I understand your point TAMU, but I was referring just to this cop - not police in general.
I think "pig" is a great word for men who abuse women.
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Sort of. I can imagine someone being at the scene of an awful accident and perhaps having reason to believe one or more of the drivers involved were driving illegally... then, you get to the hospital and because the person isn't able to respond to your questions, you need a warrant.
Frustrated at red tape - albeit probably very important in THIS particular case - is understandable.
I'm not saying the cop isn't at fault or didn't act poorly -- just saying I can rationalize other reasons why he'd be frustrated / acting like a jagoff other than him just being "a devil pig" as you'd think of him.
We will just disagree then. I can rationalize NO reason why a cop should abuse a women out of frustration. Ever.
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We will just disagree then. I can rationalize NO reason why a cop should abuse a women out of frustration. Ever.
Agree. I'd extend it to there being no reason for a cop to abuse any person merely out of frustration.
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Lots of broad brushes here. On all sides. Makes arguing easier.
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Lots of broad brushes here. On all sides. Makes arguing easier.
ND sucks
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Agree. I'd extend it to there being no reason for a cop to abuse any person merely out of frustration.
Abuse meaning...?
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Abuse meaning...?
Physical assault and false imprisonment
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Physical assault and false imprisonment
Physical assault.... where dis?
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Physical assault.... where dis?
She was grabbed around the torso and dragged outside. Assault.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-utah-nurse/utah-nurse-claims-police-assault-after-she-refused-patient-blood-sample-idUSKCN1BC57X
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She was grabbed around the torso and dragged outside. Assault.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-utah-nurse/utah-nurse-claims-police-assault-after-she-refused-patient-blood-sample-idUSKCN1BC57X
She was arrested (apparently unlawfully). Arrests go down this way all the time. Are they assaults?
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She was arrested (apparently unlawfully). Arrests go down this way all the time. Are they assaults?
By definition of the word assault, this one was.
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ND sucks
Yes, it does.
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She was arrested (apparently unlawfully). Arrests go down this way all the time. Are they assaults?
When they are unlawful, yes.
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When they are unlawful, yes.
Jay Bee just thinks she likes it rough.
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She was arrested (apparently unlawfully). Arrests go down this way all the time. Are they assaults?
You're doing this well. Can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse for fun or wildly stupid for real.
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#2. Check the history.
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You're doing this well. Can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse for fun or wildly stupid for real.
Golden Avalanche, meet Jay Bee.
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You're doing this well. Can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse for fun or wildly stupid for real.
What am I missing here? All JB said was that he understands why the cop might have been frustrated. And then a bunch of people go off on him as some sort of apologist for this cop?
Whether you believe the cop was right or wrong is irrelevant... you won't solve a problem if you can't understand it.
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What am I missing here? All JB said was that he understands why the cop might have been frustrated. And then a bunch of people go off on him as some sort of apologist for this cop?
Whether you believe the cop was right or wrong is irrelevant... you won't solve a problem if you can't understand it.
I think what people were going off on was that this was one more in a pattern of many comments of that type - usually blaming taking whatever side the women is on. Taken a a whole, there is often a misogynistic quality to his posts.
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I think what people were going off on was that this was one more in a pattern of many comments of that type - usually blaming taking whatever side the women is on. Taken a a whole, there is often a misogynistic quality to his posts.
Ahh, so attacking the person, not what the person is saying. I've never felt so close to chicos.
It's not like I wrote this:
http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/04/arrested-utah-nurse-had-it-coming/ (http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/04/arrested-utah-nurse-had-it-coming/)
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I think what people were going off on was that this was one more in a pattern of many comments of that type - usually blaming taking whatever side the women is on. Taken a a whole, there is often often a fill in the blank conversation stopper quality to his posts.
sanctimonious, broad brush, pejoratives are never very strong persuasion techniques, ehyn'a?
calm down there sparky :o
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I think what people were going off on was that this was one more in a pattern of many comments of that type - usually blaming taking whatever side the women is on. Taken a a whole, there is often a misogynistic quality to his posts.
Tell me again about this "pattern (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Step2-Fantasy-Vanity-with-Shatterproof-Plastic-Mirror-and-Sturdy-Matching-Stool/10982710)"...
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Tell me again about this "pattern (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Step2-Fantasy-Vanity-with-Shatterproof-Plastic-Mirror-and-Sturdy-Matching-Stool/10982710)"...
Even JayBee ain't that kreepy, ai-na?
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Officer involved in Utah nurse arrest fired from paramedic job
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/09/05/health/nurse-arrested-police-protocol/index.html
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Officer involved in Utah nurse arrest fired from paramedic job
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/09/05/health/nurse-arrested-police-protocol/index.html
That's good, but something tells me he'll get to keep his other job.
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Nurses in need of arrest?
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/05/denver-health-medical-center-nurses-suspended-admired-genitals/
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Nurses in need of arrest?
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/05/denver-health-medical-center-nurses-suspended-admired-genitals/
Yes, they should be fired immediately.
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Yes, they should be fired immediately.
As long as doctors who do the same kind of thing are treated the same way. I don't recall the exact incident, but I have heard of a case (and by a case I mean a legal case) where a surgeon actually called other doctors into a surgery room to check out the naked body of a young woman under anesthesia. And you know that kind of thing happens more often than anyone would care to admit. Because men.
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As long as doctors who do the same kind of thing are treated the same way. I don't recall the exact incident, but I have heard of a case (and by a case I mean a legal case) where a surgeon actually called other doctors into a surgery room to check out the naked body of a young woman under anesthesia. And you know that kind of thing happens more often than anyone would care to admit. Because men.
Based on those nurses in Denver it would seem that it's because everybody
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Based on those nurses in Denver it would seem that it's because everybody
Fair enough.
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Based on those nurses in Denver it would seem that it's because everybody
Why are you assuming the nurses were female?
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As a nurse in the ED here in Milwaukee, I can say I have never had this situation with any MPD officers. But I can easily see how the lines can get blurred and the officers begin to request more than they are granted.
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Nurses in need of arrest?
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/05/denver-health-medical-center-nurses-suspended-admired-genitals/
What's the charge?
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Nurses in need of arrest?
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/05/denver-health-medical-center-nurses-suspended-admired-genitals/
Interesting deflection/attempt at equivocation.
I'd love to hear your opinion on the original post/situation
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Why are you assuming the nurses were female?
Because the hospital spokesperson stated that four of the nurses were back at work the fifth no longer works there though she was not terminated. That one she is enough to validate my post that it's not just guys.
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As a nurse in the ED here in Milwaukee, I can say I have never had this situation with any MPD officers. But I can easily see how the lines can get blurred and the officers begin to request more than they are granted.
Chick jr. works on a med/surg floor at St. Luke's, and she told me she is asked by cops all the time for information that is covered by HIPPAA, like why the patient is in the hospital, or when they are going to be released. And they usually get pissed when she lets them know that she can't divulge that kind of info.
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As long as doctors who do the same kind of thing are treated the same way. I don't recall the exact incident, but I have heard of a case (and by a case I mean a legal case) where a surgeon actually called other doctors into a surgery room to check out the naked body of a young woman under anesthesia. And you know that kind of thing happens more often than anyone would care to admit. Because men.
Doctors should be fired immediately in the same way, and in my opinion charged with sexual assault.
And the "because men" thing is uncalled for. I didn't even pay enough attention to whether the nurses were men or women. I don't care, they should be fired regardless. Doctor or Nurse regardless of whether they are men or women, trans, intersex...anything should be fired immediately for such actions.
And in my experience, women are as bad as men in these types of scenarios, so pretending that it's a "because men" issue is applying gender stereotypes when they are uncalled for.
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Doctors should be fired immediately in the same way, and in my opinion charged with sexual assault.
And the "because men" thing is uncalled for. I didn't even pay enough attention to whether the nurses were men or women. I don't care, they should be fired regardless. Doctor or Nurse regardless of whether they are men or women, trans, intersex...anything should be fired immediately for such actions.
And in my experience, women are as bad as men in these types of scenarios, so pretending that it's a "because men" issue is applying gender stereotypes when they are uncalled for.
I can assure you it was 100% tongue in cheek. Chick is anything but sexist in that regard. You'll just have to trust me. So let's leave it at that.
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I can assure you it was 100% tongue in cheek. Chick is anything but sexist in that regard. You'll just have to trust me. So let's leave it at that.
I believe you, as it seemed very unusual from her. I was actually wondering if someone else had posted it.
I apologize for not taking it tongue in cheek immediately.
One of the crazy things I learned later in life is how many times the people most sexist against women are other women.
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I'm sure its largely tongue in cheek, but as a man, the "because men" thing isn't uncalled for, and its not "sexist." The worst thing to happen to women is men. Let's not lose the forest from the trees on that, fellas, lest we devolve back into the "not all men" run a couple years ago.
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The worst thing to happen to women is men.
Except for that small detail about becoming extinct without them.
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Except for that small detail about becoming extinct without them.
Maybe not...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/scientists-claim-can-create-babies-7441572
You guys better start being nicer to us, because you are becoming more and more irrelevant.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Sylvia_lots_of_happy_fat_women.jpeg)
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I'm sure its largely tongue in cheek, but as a man, the "because men" thing isn't uncalled for, and its not "sexist." The worst thing to happen to women is men. Let's not lose the forest from the trees on that, fellas, lest we devolve back into the "not all men" run a couple years ago.
Yep. Any study can tell you that the VAST majority of sex crimes (which is what the nurses committed) are perpetrated by men. And I've heard the "boys will be boys" excuse trotted out as a serious defense plenty of times.
But yes, women can commit sex crimes too.
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Yep. Any study can tell you that the VAST majority of sex crimes (which is what the nurses committed) are perpetrated by men. And I've heard the "boys will be boys" excuse trotted out as a serious defense plenty of times.
But yes, women can commit sex crimes too.
Hey TAMU, I see that you're about to get new marching orders from the boss.
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As a nurse in the ED here in Milwaukee, I can say I have never had this situation with any MPD officers. But I can easily see how the lines can get blurred and the officers begin to request more than they are granted.
Having represented hospitals, docs and nurses for decades, I can assure you it's fairly common for police ask for more than they're entitled to - blood samples, Protected Health Information, whatever. I get that, and don't blame them for trying in the heart of the moment. But other than expressing frustration, they typically back off once they are given a clear, firm no.
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Maybe not...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/scientists-claim-can-create-babies-7441572
You guys better start being nicer to us, because you are becoming more and more irrelevant.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Sylvia_lots_of_happy_fat_women.jpeg)
Moderators, please IMMEDIATELY move this to the Doom thread! :o
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Yep. Any study can tell you that the VAST majority of sex crimes (which is what the nurses committed) are perpetrated by men. And I've heard the "boys will be boys" excuse trotted out as a serious defense plenty of times.
But yes, women can commit sex crimes too.
These nurses should be appropriately punished and all, but I'm wondering what statutory authority you're looking at to classify ogling a naked corpse as a sex crime?
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Hey TAMU, I see that you're about to get new marching orders from the boss.
Not really. She implied that she would rescind the 2011 letter. All that does is takeaway guidance, it doesn't change the law (making the situation even worse). Just like rescinding DACA didn't change anything for Marquette or TAMU (both schools statements made me very proud) rescinding the 2011 letter won't change a thing for me and I doubt it will change much for most universities.
New marching orders would require a new DCL offering different guidance. Devos has no interest in in changing the system. She is merely pandering to her base.
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These nurses should be appropriately punished and all, but I'm wondering what statutory authority you're looking at to classify ogling a naked corpse as a sex crime?
My guess is it probably falls under a disorderly conduct umbrella, i.e. not a sex crime per se (at least not something that's going to get you on a registry), just a misdemeanor.
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These nurses should be appropriately punished and all, but I'm wondering what statutory authority you're looking at to classify ogling a naked corpse as a sex crime?
Was it just ogling, I thought I had read there was touching involved. I don't know the exact statue but there's something along the lines of inappropriate contact with corpse.
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Was it just ogling, I thought I had read there was touching involved. I don't know the exact statue but there's something along the lines of inappropriate contact with corpse.
Article just talks about "viewing" the genitals, so I doubt there is a "sex crime" involved.
My guess is that they might be facing suspension or revocation of their licenses by the nursing board (most states allow that for "unprofessional conduct").
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Was it just ogling, I thought I had read there was touching involved. I don't know the exact statue but there's something along the lines of inappropriate contact with corpse.
Doesn't matter. It is 4th degree sexual assault whether they directly touched the person or not. They touched the body bag with the intention of degrading or humiliating the individual or for the purpose of arousing or gratifying themselves.
4th degree sexual assault does not require direct contact with the body, it can be through clothing/coverings.
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Doesn't matter. It is 4th degree sexual assault whether they directly touched the person or not. They touched the body bag with the intention of degrading or humiliating the individual or for the purpose of arousing or gratifying themselves.
4th degree sexual assault does not require direct contact with the body, it can be through clothing/coverings.
Under Colorado law (where this occurred)?
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Under Colorado law (where this occurred)?
Colorado does do it differently, but the Nurses still did commit a crime. The crime is defined as "unlawful sexual contact" not 4th degree assault.
All that is required is that a person's privates were examined without permission in a manner inconsistent wth legitimate medical examination.
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Yep. Any study can tell you that the VAST majority of sex crimes (which is what the nurses committed) are perpetrated by men. And I've heard the "boys will be boys" excuse trotted out as a serious defense plenty of times.
But yes, women can commit sex crimes too.
Not disagreeing with you, but define VAST. Most recent estimates put the percentage of crimes committed by women between 11-30% of all sex crimes. The 30% is likely too high as it relies heavily on statistics involving incarceration.
Those numbers go up significantly each year as the stigma regarding men being assaulted decreases. The corollary to the "boys will be boys" line, is that the women/female was doing the man/boy a favor...because they should be somehow grateful to be assaulted.
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Maybe not...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/scientists-claim-can-create-babies-7441572
You guys better start being nicer to us, because you are becoming more and more irrelevant.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Sylvia_lots_of_happy_fat_women.jpeg)
Chick, I know you don't need us now - Was talking about tens or hundreds or thousands of years ago. Horrible as we are, I think even Burrow will begrudgingly concede we were once necessary for the preservation of the species.
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civil lawsuit filed or settlement talks progressing, hey?
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Interesting deflection/attempt at equivocation.
I'd love to hear your opinion on the original post/situation
Not in the least. I found it funny, more than anything.
I posted my opinion on the original situation http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54555.msg945385#msg945385
He was wrong, he will pay the price.
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I'm sure its largely tongue in cheek, but as a man, the "because men" thing isn't uncalled for, and its not "sexist." The worst thing to happen to women is men. Let's not lose the forest from the trees on that, fellas, lest we devolve back into the "not all men" run a couple years ago.
I'm sure there are plenty of men out there that could say the same in reverse in terms of the worst thing that to happen.
For those of us blessed to have great, wonderful women or men in our lives, all good. Not everyone has that, however.
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These nurses should be appropriately punished and all, but I'm wondering what statutory authority you're looking at to classify ogling a naked corpse as a sex crime?
Article says they were doing it while he was incapacitated, including after he was deceased. That leads me to believe they were taking their peeping exercises while he was still alive.
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Not disagreeing with you, but define VAST. Most recent estimates put the percentage of crimes committed by women between 11-30% of all sex crimes. The 30% is likely too high as it relies heavily on statistics involving incarceration.
Those numbers go up significantly each year as the stigma regarding men being assaulted decreases. The corollary to the "boys will be boys" line, is that the women/female was doing the man/boy a favor...because they should be somehow grateful to be assaulted.
Very bad sample bias here, but before my wife and I moved into our new crib, I ran a check on our old address through the ol' sex registry, and not surprisingly, we had 7 hits within a 1 or 2 mile radius... what was surprising was that three of them were female.
As I said sample bias and all, but I could perhaps see women perpetrating disproportionately more sex crimes in higher income suburbs than the rural and urban areas... especially in areas known for their mountain lion populations.