MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on August 22, 2017, 08:00:33 PM
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No, this is not an onion story.
ESPN is afraid this man, who is Asian, will be confused with the man that headed the Army against Northern Aggression 150 years ago.
(https://dailygazette.com/sites/default/files/2017-08/lee.jpg)
MSESPN Pulls Asian Announcer Named Robert Lee Off UVa Game To Avoid Offending Idiots
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/msespn-pulls-asian-announcer-named-robert-lee-off-uva-game-avoid-offending-idiots/
“We collectively made the decision with Robert to switch games as the tragic events in Charlottesville were unfolding, simply because of the coincidence of his name. In that moment it felt right to all parties. It’s a shame that this is even a topic of conversation and we regret that who calls play by play for a football game has become an issue.”
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What contempt ESPN must have for their own viewers - they're even dumber than they think their customers are, though. Funny in a pathetic sort of way.
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I mean...that's really stupid.
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You know....there are probably some people out there who would believe that it was a joke or someone had hacked the broadcast or something....but this is really dumb. Kind of hilarious but mostly dumb.
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Wow - just wow.
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I think I read 3 articles and still wasn't sure it was real.
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I actually find this depressing.
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This is not the first time ESPN has done something really stupid this year. As long as something sounds like another word, even though it has a completely different meaning, that is good enough for ESPN to act to stamp out racism, and make themselves feel better.
Commentator fired for Venus 'guerilla' remark suing ESPN
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-espn-adler-idUSKBN15U04G
Tennis commentator Doug Adler has sued broadcaster ESPN, weeks after being taken off the air following a remark about Venus Williams at the Australian Open that some interpreted to be racist.
Adler, who has since apologized for how he spoke about Williams, has maintained that he was describing the African-American 13th seed's aggressive style of charging as the "guerilla effect" and not comparing her to a "gorilla."
Adler's lawyer, David Ring, says the comment was a "big nothing" until it hit Twitter.
"And then somehow on Twitter someone said he called Venus a gorilla," Ring told Reuters. "ESPN fires him the next day for something he never even said. Doug Adler lost his career, he lost his reputation.
"By ESPN firing him he was suddenly the guy fired for making a racist remark and it never happened."
Adler, who was a former college tennis player before turning to broadcasting, filed his lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court on Tuesday.
"Adler was wrongly terminated by ESPN after Adler described Venus Williams as using 'guerilla' tactics, a description that is commonly used in tennis to describe a form of aggressive play," the lawsuit states.
"ESPN bowed to pressure from those using social media, including Twitter, who mistakenly believed Adler used the word 'gorilla' to describe Venus Williams. ESPN wrongfully terminated Adler and has since caused other employees to shun Adler, causing Adler serious financial and emotional harm."
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And yes, Guerilla tennis is actually a thing. It was the centerpiece of Nike's 1995 campaign that ran during the US Open featuring Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras.
ESPN should stop accepting ads from Nike, it's obvious they are as racist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXo2ZgvCo80
http://www.youtube.com/v/zXo2ZgvCo80
Post script ... sometimes these things matter to the people that are accused and fired ....
FIRED ESPN TENNIS ANALYST SUFFERS HEART ATTACK Blames Stress from 'Guerilla' Incident
March 1, 2017
http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/01/doug-adler-heart-attack/
The ESPN tennis announcer who was fired after using the word "guerilla" during a Venus Williams match has suffered a heart attack ... and claims it was brought on by the stress surrounding the incident.
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That second one is a little tougher. I could see it being easy for someone to say the one thing and then claim it was the other as a defense. If he actually compared her to a gorilla, you need to fire him in today's media world. On the other hand, if he did really mean guerilla than he just got fired for saying something completely innocent. Only he knew what he meant.
ESPN knew he was going to get let go in the massive journalist purge coming in a few months so they decided better safe than sorry
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That second one is a little tougher. I could see it being easy for someone to say the one thing and then claim it was the other as a defense. If he actually compared her to a gorilla, you need to fire him in today's media world. On the other hand, if he did really mean guerilla than he just got fired for saying something completely innocent. Only he knew what he meant.
ESPN knew he was going to get let go in the massive journalist purge coming in a few months so they decided better safe than sorry
He said Venus was using "guerilla tactics" in playing tennis. That is a thing, very aggressive up at the net play.
There is no such thing as "gorilla tactics" in tennis.
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either espn is incredibly stupid or they don't have people with spines...or both. this is the stuff that fans the flames and furthers the divides. espn needs to put the big boy pants on one of these days
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He said Venus was using "guerilla tactics" in playing tennis. That is a thing, very aggressive up at the net play.
There is no such thing as "gorilla tactics" in tennis.
I defended an action by the EEOC against an employer where the primary allegation was that when a salesman made his first sale (after quite a long time on the job), the sales manager congratulated him for finally, "getting the monkey off his back." Of course the employee and EEOC viewed it as racist. Of course, they were unpersuaded that the sales manager had a black wife and bi-racial kids.
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either espn is incredibly stupid or they don't have people with spines...or both. this is the stuff that fans the flames and furthers the divides. espn needs to put the big boy pants on one of these days
The Robert Lee thing isn't a political thing. It's a stupidity thing.
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The Robert Lee thing isn't a political thing. It's a stupidity thing.
It actually a political thing taken to its "stupidest" extreme.
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This statement actually makes sense to me. ESPN is basically taking the heat so the broadcaster wouldn't have to. He would have been meme'ed to death, ultimate lose/lose situation for ESPN. The faux outrage by some here is pretty astounding, right up there with the war on Christmas.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH44-ViWAAAKItZ.jpg)
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It actually a political thing taken to its "stupidest" extreme.
How is it political?
It's needless and asinine hypersensitivity, and creates further argument unnecessarily, but I fail to see how this plays into politics.
I suspect the people who see this as political are largely those convinced ESPN is opposed to their personal politics, and therefore view everything it does through a political lens.
But perhaps you could explain the politics at work here. How does this silly move further one political agenda or another?
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This statement actually makes sense to me. ESPN is basically taking the heat so the broadcaster wouldn't have to. He would have been meme'ed to death, ultimate lose/lose situation for ESPN. The faux outrage by some here is pretty astounding, right up there with the war on Christmas.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH44-ViWAAAKItZ.jpg)
Agreed. I'm sure he's been hearing the jokes whole life, and I'm sure it gets really old. Can't fault him (or ESPN) for not wanting to elevate those jokes (both in number and visibility) to the nth degree.
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In trying to keep from making something an issue, they have made it an issue.
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This statement actually makes sense to me. ESPN is basically taking the heat so the broadcaster wouldn't have to. He would have been meme'ed to death, ultimate lose/lose situation for ESPN. The faux outrage by some here is pretty astounding, right up there with the war on Christmas.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH44-ViWAAAKItZ.jpg)
Referencing a "zoo" while speaking about a minority? That's racist!
In trying to keep from making something an issue, they have made it an issue.
Exactly. They could have quietly switched him to a different game and no one would have known.
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I actually have a very good friend whose brother's name is Robert E. Lee, and he goes by Bob. He is still "Bobby" to anyone who knew him before he had his first real job.
Believe it or not, if you come out of the gate introducing yourself as "Bob Lee", very few people make the connection.
And no, his parents are not fans of the confederacy. He is a Jr., and his family's last name got changed to "Lee" from their complicated Norwegian one at Ellis Island.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH6f8LqVoAAKz4G.jpg)
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This statement actually makes sense to me. ESPN is basically taking the heat so the broadcaster wouldn't have to. He would have been meme'ed to death, ultimate lose/lose situation for ESPN. The faux outrage by some here is pretty astounding, right up there with the war on Christmas.
No, this makes no sense. It is more stupidity from ESPN. They are really losing it.
How about ESPN's "Outside the Lines" hosted by Bob Ley? That's Robert Ley. "Ley" is pronounced the same as "Lee."
If Guerilla/Gorilla gets one fired from ESPN, what not treat Ley as Lee?
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And another level of stupidity from the worldwide leader in sports ... just last week.
ESPN apologizes for fantasy football segment compared to slave auction
Tue August 15, 2017
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/us/espn-fantasy-football-auction/index.html
ESPN apologized on Tuesday for a fantasy football segment of an auction draft where black players were sold to mostly white male bidders.
"Auction drafts are a common part of fantasy football, and ESPN's segments replicated an auction draft with a diverse slate of top professional football players," the network statement said.
"Without that context, we understand the optics could be portrayed as offensive, and we apologize."
On social media, reaction to the segment that was part of the 28-hour fantasy marathon was mixed, with many comparing the outdoor scene to a modern-day slave auction.
New York journalist Shaun King tweeted video of the auction with the message, "Apologize now for doing a sketch where you auctioned a black man off to the highest bidder."
Watch black players auctioned to rich white guys on ESPN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4asglSLdWRU
http://www.youtube.com/v/4asglSLdWRU
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Why is it stupid to apologize to offended customers?
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/bhFMbDZpU1Cuc/giphy.gif)
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Why is it stupid to apologize to offended customers?
Ok, going political and probably get this thread locked but it needs to be said ... why do you think Trump's approval rating went up after Charlottesville. Yes, it went up. And a majority of the public agreed with him on statues, even African Americans.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-pershing-and-persuasion-1503091778?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb
For example, an NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll finds that even a survey sample that gives Mr. Trump his standard lousy approval rating overwhelmingly agrees with the President that statues of Confederate leaders should not be torn down. Even a plurality of African-Americans agrees that the statues should remain in place as symbols of our history.
These findings suggest that most Americans realize, as a Journal editorial noted, that tearing down statues does nothing to address their daily economic or educational challenges. Or perhaps they have a healthy instinctual opposition to making rapid societal changes at the behest of a shouting crowd. This column thinks that some of the Confederate statues should come down, but in a deliberative democratic process.
Point is the public has had it with this extreme PC culture where they have to constantly apologize to the aggrieved as they perceived every action as a slight and get offended.
None of the things noted above we meant as insults. So don't act like they were and apologize.
There is nothing wrong with Robert Lee doing the UVa game, nothing wrong with noting that Venus Williams was using Guerilla tactics and nothing wrong with a fantasy football draft/action. So stop acting like it was.
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And another level of stupidity from the worldwide leader in sports ... just last week.
ESPN apologizes for fantasy football segment compared to slave auction
Tue August 15, 2017
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/us/espn-fantasy-football-auction/index.html
ESPN apologized on Tuesday for a fantasy football segment of an auction draft where black players were sold to mostly white male bidders.
"Auction drafts are a common part of fantasy football, and ESPN's segments replicated an auction draft with a diverse slate of top professional football players," the network statement said.
"Without that context, we understand the optics could be portrayed as offensive, and we apologize."
On social media, reaction to the segment that was part of the 28-hour fantasy marathon was mixed, with many comparing the outdoor scene to a modern-day slave auction.
New York journalist Shaun King tweeted video of the auction with the message, "Apologize now for doing a sketch where you auctioned a black man off to the highest bidder."
Watch black players auctioned to rich white guys on ESPN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4asglSLdWRU
http://www.youtube.com/v/4asglSLdWRU
Yes. It was stupid for them to have an auction like this.
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Ok, going political and probably get this thread locked but it needs to be said ... why do you think Trump's approval rating went up after Charlottesville. Yes, it went up.
What if I were to tell you your entire premise is wrong. Three separate polls show Trump's approval hit new lows after Charlottesville.
President Donald Trump’s approval rating has hit a new low following a week in which a majority of voters believe he did more to divide the country than unite it, a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/23/trump-charlottesville-polls-241917
Even before Bannon bounced, the data suggest his hardcore support was starting to erode. According to polling done by Rasmussen Reports, 42 percent of Americans “strongly approved” of Trump shortly after Inauguration Day. By the beginning of June, that figure had come down to 30 percent, while 43 percent strongly disapproved. Today, only 24 percent of respondents to the same survey support him unreservedly.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-base-shrinking-polls-kelly-charlottesville-bannon-racism-652182
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/216125/trump-job-approval-rating-new-low.aspx
President Donald Trump's job approval rating in Gallup Daily tracking is at 34% for the three-day period from Friday through Sunday -- by one point the lowest of his administration so far.
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/216125/trump-job-approval-rating-new-low.aspx
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What if I were to tell you your entire premise is wrong. Three separate polls show Trump's approval hit new lows after Charlottesville.
President Donald Trump’s approval rating has hit a new low following a week in which a majority of voters believe he did more to divide the country than unite it, a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/23/trump-charlottesville-polls-241917
Even before Bannon bounced, the data suggest his hardcore support was starting to erode. According to polling done by Rasmussen Reports, 42 percent of Americans “strongly approved” of Trump shortly after Inauguration Day. By the beginning of June, that figure had come down to 30 percent, while 43 percent strongly disapproved. Today, only 24 percent of respondents to the same survey support him unreservedly.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-base-shrinking-polls-kelly-charlottesville-bannon-racism-652182
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/216125/trump-job-approval-rating-new-low.aspx
President Donald Trump's job approval rating in Gallup Daily tracking is at 34% for the three-day period from Friday through Sunday -- by one point the lowest of his administration so far.
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/216125/trump-job-approval-rating-new-low.aspx
Those polls measured his rating BEFORE Charlottesville.
See his rating at the end of last week, it was higher than the week before.
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First, approval ratings are delayed. Taking an approval rating for today is actually a reflection of actions from a few days to a week ago. If you look at the most recent ratings from Gallup (August 21), Trump has tied his all time low. What happened a few days to a week ago from August 21st? Trump's third response to Charlottesville in which he went back on his second response and reaffirmed his first response.
Second, you were tripping all over yourself a few months ago trying to get the NFL to do the PC thing and do whatever it took to silence Kaepernick because of "a shouting crowd." So which is it?
Finally, intent doesn't matter. It never matters. You could have the best of intentions but your impact on someone could still be negative. Best course of action for a business is to apologize for offending, explain what the intent was, and move on.
The real question becomes why does the fact that Robert Lee is going to do the Virginia Tech game instead of the Virginia game (a game that no one was going to watch anyway) bother so many people? Why does ESPN issuing a two second apology for offending bother so many people? The firing one, that one I understand, a man lost his job (though you wanted Kaepernick to lose his job because the masses demanded it).
The answer to the real question?:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bhFMbDZpU1Cuc/giphy.gif)
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It is stupid what ESPN did, full stop. What makes it galatically stupid is that they made it an issue and then in their statement complained about doing something because it was made an issue. It's a real circular firing squad on this one.
And how far have we fallen as a society that we are making decisions based on whether something gets meme'd or not?
SMOD2017
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Those polls measured his rating BEFORE Charlottesville.
No, they didn't. You would know this if you took the time to actually read the links.
Link #1
Only 39 percent of voters approve of the job Trump is doing in this week’s poll — conducted entirely following the president’s various scripted and impromptu reactions to the violence in Charlottesville, Virginia — down from 44 percent just a week ago.
Link #2
Published Aug. 14, tracking rating over Aug. 12-13. The Charlottesville rally occurred Aug. 11-12.
Link #3
Published Aug. 18.
Today, only 24 percent of respondents to the same survey support him unreservedly.
See his rating at the end of last week, it was higher than the week before.
Source?
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April 17, 2015
Why do so many ESPN personalities get suspended?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/why-do-so-many-espn-personalities-get-suspended/2015/04/17/aa9beb70-e483-11e4-905f-cc896d379a32_story.html?utm_term=.d27ddbbff88a
ESPN, the self-styled “Worldwide Leader” in sports broadcasting, may also lead the news media in another category: the number of employees suspended or fired for doing or saying something boneheaded.
The cable network has a long and storied history of sending its reporters, hosts and producers to the sidelines after embarrassing episodes that grabbed headlines. The list includes some of ESPN’s best-known personalities, including Bill Simmons, Dan Le Batard, Stephen A. Smith and Keith Olbermann. And that’s just in the past year or so.
At ESPN, you apparently haven’t arrived until your boss tells you to stay home.
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It is stupid what ESPN did, full stop. What makes it galatically stupid is that they made it an issue and then in their statement complained about doing something because it was made an issue. It's a real circular firing squad on this one.
And how far have we fallen as a society that we are making decisions based on whether something gets meme'd or not?
SMOD2017
It was dumb. I understand the thought process. If it doesn't get leaked, nobody notices and no potential issue. But in today's world it was going to get leaked and they should have known that. I will join in others who want to laugh at ESPN for this. But those get genuinely angry about it? That doesn't make sense to me.
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It is stupid what ESPN did, full stop. What makes it galatically stupid is that they made it an issue and then in their statement complained about doing something because it was made an issue. It's a real circular firing squad on this one.
And how far have we fallen as a society that we are making decisions based on whether something gets meme'd or not?
SMOD2017
http://deadspin.com/welp-espn-shot-itself-in-the-dick-1798338890
"Which is ironic in its way, because this decision is as apolitical as decisions get. ESPN is not liberal, and it’s not conservative; it’s a massive company with no political beliefs beyond damage control. Someone had the idea of switching Lee off the UVa game not because they thought it would be offensive, but because of the prospect of some hypothetical viewer being offended by seeing an Asian-American broadcaster with a hyper-common name similar to that of the Confederate general. Whether this hypothetical viewer exists or not (they don’t) is almost beside the point; true corporate cowardice requires a bland, compulsive aversion to controversy so strong that it loses touch with reality. And as so often happens, the blowback winds up being much, much worse than the nonexistent scenario ESPN hoped to avoid."
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It is stupid what ESPN did, full stop. What makes it galatically stupid is that they made it an issue and then in their statement complained about doing something because it was made an issue. It's a real circular firing squad on this one.
And how far have we fallen as a society that we are making decisions based on whether something gets meme'd or not?
SMOD2017
I agree this is remarkably stupid of them.
That said, in all fairness to ESPN, they didn't make this an issue. They didn't announce the change, to the best of my knowledge. They didn't publicize it in any way. Heck, I'm not even sure if they had ever announced that Lee would call the game in the first place.
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Finally, intent doesn't matter. It never matters. You could have the best of intentions but your impact on someone could still be negative. Best course of action for a business is to apologize for offending, explain what the intent was, and move on.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bhFMbDZpU1Cuc/giphy.gif)
Time out, intent does matter if we expect to have productive conversations that allow all sides to engage. If I say something unknowingly that offends the person I'm talking to, yes I need to apologize but the receiver of that information needs to recognize the intent and educate as well. To say intent doesn't matter is a bridge too far IMO
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April 17, 2015
Why do so many ESPN personalities get suspended?
Easy, they are the most watched and cared about new source in America (sad I know). With the title comes the most scrutiny and the highest expectations.
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I agree this is remarkably stupid of them.
That said, in all fairness to ESPN, they didn't make this an issue. They didn't announce the change. They didn't publicize it in any way. Heck, I'm not even sure if they had ever announced that Lee would call the game in the first place.
No, ESPN absolutely announced the change, they put out a PR statement which is what started this in the first place.
(full willing to walk back my statement here if I have the story wrong, but the first time I became aware of it was seeing the PR statement from ESPN on twitter last night)
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Time out, intent does matter if we expect to have productive conversations that allow all sides to engage. If I say something unknowingly that offends the person I'm talking to, yes I need to apologize but the receiver of that information needs to recognize the intent and educate as well. To say intent doesn't matter is a bridge too far IMO
I might have phrased it poorly. But your good intent doesn't change or minimize the negative impact it had on someone else. Basic communications theory, SMCR. If there is a fault with the message, it is always the sender's fault, not the receiver's.
PS, I'm talking about big business and media here. Not one to one conversations.
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Finally, intent doesn't matter. It never matters. You could have the best of intentions but your impact on someone could still be negative. Best course of action for a business is to apologize for offending, explain what the intent was, and move on.
So my words no longer have meaning. All that matters is what other perceive them to be. And the most offended is the meaning that matters the most ... no matter how contrived it may be.
This is exactly the problem and what many are rebelling against. This viewpoint is wrong.
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No, ESPN absolutely announced the change, they put out a PR statement which is what started this in the first place.
(full willing to walk back my statement here if I have the story wrong, but the first time I became aware of it was seeing the PR statement from ESPN on twitter last night)
I believe ESPN put out the statement only after news of the change was published on Outkick the Coverage (and perhaps elsewhere).
As you can see on the Outkick the Coverage story, the ESPN statement was added on as an "update" after the initial story was posted. The initial story cites as its source "multiple Outkick fans inside ESPN MSESPN."
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/msespn-pulls-asian-announcer-named-robert-lee-off-uva-game-avoid-offending-idiots/
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So my words no longer have meaning.
We have been trying to tell you that for awhile now.
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No, ESPN absolutely announced the change, they put out a PR statement which is what started this in the first place.
(full willing to walk back my statement here if I have the story wrong, but the first time I became aware of it was seeing the PR statement from ESPN on twitter last night)
Correct
ESPN started this by announcing the change and the reason for the change. ESPN could have just made the change with saying anything and no one would have noticed. No one was asking or thinking about this.
Instead, they put out a release announcing the change so they can make a statement about themself and how they care and are morally superior to everyone else.
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Correct
ESPN started this by announcing the change and the reason for the change. ESPN could have just made the change with saying anything and no one would have noticed. No one was asking or thinking about this.
Instead, they put out a release announcing the change so they can make a statement about themself and how they care and are morally superior to everyone else.
That's simply not true. Here is the story from Outkick the Coverage...first original paragraph.
"n a story that seems made for The Onion, but is actually true, according to multiple Outkick fans inside ESPN MSESPN decided to pull an Asian college football announcer named Robert Lee off the William and Mary at University of Virginia college football game because they were concerned that having an ASIAN FOOTBALL ANNOUNCER NAMED ROBERT LEE would be offensive to some viewers."
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Correct
ESPN started this by announcing the change and the reason for the change. ESPN could have just made the change with saying anything and no one would have noticed. No one was asking or thinking about this.
Instead, they put out a release announcing the change so they can make a statement about themself and how they care and are morally superior to everyone else.
No, wrong.
Outkick the Coverage reported it at 3:14 p.m. Tuesday afternoon, according to its Twitter feed.
ESPN issued its statement Tuesday night.
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Easy, they are the most watched and cared about new source in America (sad I know). With the title comes the most scrutiny and the highest expectations.
You mean it's not the Russians posting fake news on Facebook?
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So my words no longer have meaning. All that matters is what other perceive them to be. And the most offended is the meaning that matters the most ... no matter how contrived it may be.
This is exactly the problem and what many are rebelling against. This viewpoint is wrong.
No your words matter. You are a consumer of ESPN.
I'm not talking about person to person communication. I'm talking about business/media to consumer communication. If the consumer doesn't like or doesn't understand the message you put out, they aren't bad consumers. You (the business) sent out a bad or unclear message. Public Relations 101.
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I believe ESPN put out the statement only after news of the change was published on Outkick the Coverage (and perhaps elsewhere).
As you can see on the Outkick the Coverage story, the ESPN statement was added on as an "update" after the initial story was posted. The initial story cites as its source "multiple Outkick fans inside ESPN MSESPN."
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/msespn-pulls-asian-announcer-named-robert-lee-off-uva-game-avoid-offending-idiots/
OK fair, so it was dumb to make the change....the rest was reactionary so I get it. I thought they announced the change which was the galatically stupid part to me....moving on.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/KvmbA2yO6lkUE/giphy.gif)
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i don't think espn realizes there is anything to apologize for-this is how they roll and what their agenda is. they are trying to be the "trailblazers", ahead of the curve, politically correct people and everyone else is too stupid to understand.
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I might have phrased it poorly. But your good intent doesn't change or minimize the negative impact it had on someone else. Basic communications theory, SMCR. If there is a fault with the message, it is always the sender's fault, not the receiver's.
PS, I'm talking about big business and media here. Not one to one conversations.
Eh, even at the corporate to many level, intent has to matter otherwise you turn communication over to the tyranny of the mob. If I can find 100 people that are offended by my use of a cartoon bear to sell toilet paper because it steals the essence of the bear, as a corporation I should apologize and discontinue my use of that campaign? We need to move back to a "reasonable person" standard because we are degrading our ability to communicate effectively. People, corporations, etc are getting to the point where they aren't communicating or at least really inefficiently because we are afraid of reaction....see ESPN.
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Why do you guys even engage with Snowflake Smuggles? He's proven his capacity for nuanced thought is that of a garbanzo bean.
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He said Venus was using "guerilla tactics" in playing tennis. That is a thing, very aggressive up at the net play.
There is no such thing as "gorilla tactics" in tennis.
You made up that quote. He never said "gorilla tactics".
You might want to check the video.
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Ok, going political and probably get this thread locked but it needs to be said ... why do you think Trump's approval rating went up after Charlottesville. Yes, it went up. And a majority of the public agreed with him on statues, even African Americans.
I don't think your numbers are right, but regardless.....
Why do you support statues of traitors in honored places like parks and gov't buildings? Put 'em in museums where they belong. Every one on these guys was a U.S. citizen who turned on their country and killed American soldiers. Traitors should not be honored.
We also know that many, many of these statues were erected during the heyday of the Klan - when they were a very large national organization - to intimidate blacks and show who had the real power.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-off-virginia-game-charlottesville-protests/592458001/
According to this it was the announcers decision to switch games.
Btw is there a bigger tool in sports "media" than Clay Travis?
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-off-virginia-game-charlottesville-protests/592458001/
According to this it was the announcers decision to switch games.
Btw is there a bigger tool in sports "media" than Clay Travis?
I'm sure a ton of apologies will be coming from those who attacked ESPN for "making" this awful decision. ;D ;D ;D
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Btw is there a bigger tool in sports "media" than Clay Travis?
DeMarcus Cousins is going to be arrested any day now, just you wait.
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Good thing that Tom Jackson retired from ESPN last year.
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Why do you guys even engage with Snowflake Smuggles? He's proven his capacity for nuanced thought is that of a garbanzo bean.
He's more of a broflake.
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I'm sure a ton of apologies will be coming from those who attacked ESPN for "making" this awful decision. ;D ;D ;D
Even if you interprite the story as favorably as possible for ESPN, they initiated this by bringing it up to the broadcaster. If it's a concern just switch him and be done with it, why even ask?
Only way ESPN is "off the hook" is if this is 100% the broadcaster bringing it up and asking for the switch....in which case ESPN is falling on a grenade for Mr Lee, which is admirable
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Eh, even at the corporate to many level, intent has to matter otherwise you turn communication over to the tyranny of the mob. If I can find 100 people that are offended by my use of a cartoon bear to sell toilet paper because it steals the essence of the bear, as a corporation I should apologize and discontinue my use of that campaign? We need to move back to a "reasonable person" standard because we are degrading our ability to communicate effectively. People, corporations, etc are getting to the point where they aren't communicating or at least really inefficiently because we are afraid of reaction....see ESPN.
I think we are talking about different things. Saying intent doesn't matter, impact does, doesn't throw out the reasonable person standard. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean that the company has to apologize. But they can't control the customer. They can't tell them that they are a bad customer and need to change their opinion. All they can control is their response. If it doesn't pass the reasonable person standard, than the best response is to ignore. Now, what does and doesn't pass the reasonable person standard is usually the center of the debate.
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Even if you interprite the story as favorably as possible for ESPN, they initiated this by bringing it up to the broadcaster. If it's a concern just switch him and be done with it, why even ask?
Only way ESPN is "off the hook" is if this is 100% the broadcaster bringing it up and asking for the switch....in which case ESPN is falling on a grenade for Mr Lee, which is admirable
I pretty much agree. The best word I can come up with is "overcompensate" to describe ESPN's behavior here.
I am just amazed at what upsets some people these days.
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You made up that quote. He never said "gorilla tactics".
You might want to check the video.
Yeah, prompted by this I actually looked up the clip. The exact phrase was "move in and put the gorilla/guerilla effect on. Charging."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/756699/ESPN-Venus-Williams-gorilla-commentator-sacked
If he said guerilla tactics, a very common phrase, I would have been shocked at the eventual outcome. With what was actually said? Hard to know. Only he knows what he actually meant. Personally I think of a gorilla charging before I think of a guerilla charging but that doesn't prove anything.
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not only is espn losing it, but it seems to be rubbing off on some of their people-bad timing?
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/08/23/espn-host-arrested-after-reportedly-wandering-naked-into-strangers-home.html
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Yeah, prompted by this I actually looked up the clip. The exact phrase was "move in and put the gorilla/guerilla effect on. Charging."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/756699/ESPN-Venus-Williams-gorilla-commentator-sacked
If he said guerilla tactics, a very common phrase, I would have been shocked at the eventual outcome. With what was actually said? Hard to know. Only he knows what he actually meant. Personally I think of a gorilla charging before I think of a guerilla charging but that doesn't prove anything.
Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis. As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.
And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic. So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging." His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."
By here you show how gone you are. You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows." You honestly think he might be a racist. Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him. Easier to throw him under the bus.
Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator. He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment. By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react. So you hide behind tortured logic.
Others are standing up and saying enough.
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Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis. As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.
And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic. So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging." His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."
By here you show how gone you are. You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows." You honestly think he might be a racist. Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him. Easier to throw him under the bus.
Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator. He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment. By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react. So you hide behind tortured logic.
Others are standing up and saying enough.
Or, as in your case, people just say random sh*t to get attention.
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Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis. As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.
And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic. So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging." His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."
By here you show how gone you are. You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows." You honestly think he might be a racist. Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him. Easier to throw him under the bus.
Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator. He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment. By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react. So you hide behind tortured logic.
Others are standing up and saying enough.
How do you get through life being so offended by things like this? Must be exhausting.
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Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis. As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.
And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic. So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging." His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."
I googled guerilla tactics tennis. Nothing came up but this story. It doesn't really seem to be a thing in tennis at all. I don't think Nike dedicated ad campaign to it, I think they invented a term for the ad campaign. I suppose its possible that the announcer was thinking of a 22 year old ad campaign for a shoe but I think saying "guerilla tactics is a thing in tennis" is a little disingenuous. If you can find me an example that is actually tennis related and not shoe selling related I am prepared to listen.
By here you show how gone you are. You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows." You honestly think he might be a racist. Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him. Easier to throw him under the bus.
Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator. He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment. By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react. So you hide behind tortured logic.
I don't think I advocated throwing him under the bus or called him a racist. I simply stated the fact, only he knows what he said. If he called her a gorilla, that's a racist comment. If he called her a guerilla, that's not a racist comment. How do you prove it either way? I don't know. I'm glad I didn't have to make that decision. I tend to try to see the good in people so I probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt. I think the greater question might be whether or not a racist comment should get you fired. There needs to be accountability and education but should someone get fired for something that many in other professions do on a daily basis with no repercussions?
Others are standing up and saying enough.
Yes, these people are:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bhFMbDZpU1Cuc/giphy.gif)
The guy getting fired, I understand why people are upset. A man lost his job. But the people who get so angry that others would dare to have a different opinion from them and be offended by something that they aren't offended by? I don't get it.
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I actually have a very good friend whose brother's name is Robert E. Lee, and he goes by Bob. He is still "Bobby" to anyone who knew him before he had his first real job.
I worked with a guy in Richmond named Robert E. Lee and he went by...Robert E. Lee. That was about 25 years ago. Not sure if he still uses the full name....
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Robert E. Lee the general, and his brethren were responsible for 620,000 deaths in OUR nation's history because they wanted free labor of black people to do their bidding. Period.
If public monuments are used for educational and historical purposes in places like parks and town squares, where are the Bin Laden monuments to educate folks about 9/11 or Timothy McVeigh monuments to make sure we remember the Oklahoma City bombing.
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Only ESPN could somehow make news attempting to do something PC and pissing off everyone. This is truly the unity our country deserves.
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Robert E. Lee the general, and his brethren were responsible for 620,000 deaths in OUR nation's history because they wanted free labor of black people to do their bidding. Period.
If public monuments are used for educational and historical purposes in places like parks and town squares, where are the Bin Laden monuments to educate folks about 9/11 or Timothy McVeigh monuments to make sure we remember the Oklahoma City bombing.
Well said. Are there any countries in the world that put up statues to honor the generals from the countries they defeated? Especially generals who were traitors?
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Only ESPN could somehow make news attempting to do something PC and pissing off everyone. This is truly the unity our country deserves.
I don't know whether they were even trying to be PC. I think they were trying to spare a young sportscaster from the fallout that we know would happen on social media.
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I've played/watched a lot of tennis over the last 20 years and have never heard that term.
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So, this has gone as well as expected. Now get back to the NM thread.