A true American hero
Who plays him in the biographical movie?
Ed Harris did in Game Change.
Quote from: jesmu84 on July 28, 2017, 06:07:22 AM
A true American hero
Who plays him in the biographical movie?
Interesting that he is getting all the credit rather than the two
women who stood against this.
I certainly commend him for this vote, but he knows this is his last rodeo. He will never run for re-election again. This was as much about his legacy as anything else. He finally demonstrated that he was willing to take a strong stand once again.
As a Lib, I still had a positive view of McCain until he sold out with Sarah. This was about him reclaiming his historical status. In future books, he will be the one getting all of the credit.
Plus, he has been waiting a long time to exact revenge. I think that was a big "up yours" to the Creep-in-Chief.
Quote from: Jockey on July 28, 2017, 12:57:00 PM
Interesting that he is getting all the credit rather than the two women who stood against this.
I don't think it's a gender thing. IMHO, it's because the Administration pretty much gave up on Collins and Murkowski, so McCain got the full court press of pressure, arm-twisting and probably threats. All three deserve the same credit (or blame, depending on your political stance).
Political theatre. It was never going to pass.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 28, 2017, 01:37:30 PM
Political theatre. It was never going to pass.
I could very well see this happening. A bunch of folks like Graham and others toeing the line because they know McCain would sink it (and thereby deflecting any blowback from them). Either way a dramatic end to a drama filled week for the Senator.
Quote from: Jockey on July 28, 2017, 12:57:00 PM
[...]
As a Lib, I still had a positive view of McCain until he sold out with Sarah. This was about him reclaiming his historical status. In future books, he will be the one getting all of the credit.
[...]
In my observation of things people on the opposite side of the aisle praise McCain as a "maverick" when he's useful to them, and despise him as another evil R when he's not. That is starting to fade recently though, as people have started despising him despite the fact that he's useful to them.
I've always found the McCain myth to be a little overblown, but hey, he's a politician, and they're all terrible.
I like people who weren't captured.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 28, 2017, 02:56:27 PM
I could very well see this happening. A bunch of folks like Graham and others toeing the line because they know McCain would sink it (and thereby deflecting any blowback from them). Either way a dramatic end to a drama filled week for the Senator.
Exactly. Republicans were always going to make sure that the vote failed by exactly 1 vote. Appease the base by trying and coming close, appease the moderates by not actually repealing the ACA.
Quote from: reinko on July 28, 2017, 03:09:38 PM
I like people who weren't captured.
I like people who refused to fight for their country (5 deferrals) better.
Quote from: Jockey on July 28, 2017, 03:33:14 PM
I like people who refused to fight for their country (5 deferrals) better.
People say that Bill Clinton was pretty likable during the Vietnam War. Maybe not as likable as Trump, but much more likeable than GWB, who was only likeable 28 days a month.
This was great for the insurance companies. They remain on the gravy train.
Quote from: jficke13 on July 28, 2017, 03:06:06 PM
I've always found the McCain myth to be a little overblown, but hey, he's a politician, and they're all terrible.
That's true about the myth being a bit overblown, but it's without dispute that he's consistently taken stands against his party across his career (on big issues too). It's a trait I admire in members of either party and wish we saw more of it. I hope the deep polarity in politics today reaches the point of backlash so voters start to reorient themselves back toward centrism and candidates like him.
Quote from: mu-rara on July 28, 2017, 03:38:13 PM
This was great for the insurance companies. They remain on the gravy train.
To be fair, the insurance companies wanted the GOP plans.
As to getting back to the topic. I'm hearing Preibus is looking for a job, maybe he could be cast as a young Maverick.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on July 28, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
That's true about the myth being a bit overblown, but it's without dispute that he's consistently taken stands against his party across his career (on big issues too). It's a trait I admire in members of either party and wish we saw more of it. I hope the deep polarity in politics today reaches the point of backlash so voters start to reorient themselves back toward centrism and candidates like him.
He's voted down party lines 86% of his time in the Senate. Unsure how that can be described as "consistently" taking stands against the GOP.
For further clarification, what are the big issues that McCain voted against predominant Republican ideology?
The last year, no politician had disappointed me more than McCain.
Here you had a legit war hero, an unselfish patriot who had given his life to his country ... but then he toed the party line and backed a douchey draft dodger who had publicly dissed McCain's service to America.
So this was a fantastic surprise. And I agree it was a giant F-U to the giant orange pig. I like the story line of Graham and others setting him up for this, too. I hope it comes out exactly like that.
I was proud of McCain when he came to Obama's defense after that nutjob woman called Obama "an Arab." And I'm even prouder of him now.
As for him voting with the party 86% of the time ... that seems like a pretty low percentage in today's political climate. How many Senators from either party have voted with their party less?
Thumbs up to Collins and Murkowski, too. I have a friend who lives in Maine and he says Collins always talks a good game about bipartisanship but usually backs down when it counts most. And Trump repeatedly threatened Murkowski, trying to bully her as only he can.
I don't like a lot about Obamacare and I'm naive in hoping that a bipartisan fix is still possible. But what the GOP was doing here was awful, and I applaud the courage of those three senators.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on July 28, 2017, 09:04:41 PM
He's voted down party lines 86% of his time in the Senate. Unsure how that can be described as "consistently" taking stands against the GOP.
For further clarification, what are the big issues that McCain voted against predominant Republican ideology?
Let's see. The environment, immigration, tax cuts, military use of torture, and health care, for starters.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on July 28, 2017, 09:04:41 PM
He's voted down party lines 86% of his time in the Senate. Unsure how that can be described as "consistently" taking stands against the GOP.
These kinds of stats are always a bit misleading, though, because the Senate (and House) takes dozens of votes every session in which there is no real debate. Like ceremonial declarations that July 29, 2017 shall be known as "Support Your Local VFW Day" to noncontroversial appointments of ambassadors, judges, etc.
So, I think you'd find that McCain not only votes with the GOP majority 86 percent of the time, he probably votes with the Democrats 60-70 percent of the time.
Quote from: MU82 on July 28, 2017, 10:52:20 PM
The last year, no politician had disappointed me more than McCain.
Here you had a legit war hero, an unselfish patriot who had given his life to his country ... but then he toed the party line and backed a douchey draft dodger who had publicly dissed McCain's service to America.
McCain publicly announced a month before the election that he was not supporting Trump and would not vote for Trump.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-arizona-sen-john-mccain-revokes-trump-1475961057-htmlstory.html
No spin at work here, eh?
Quote from: real hauserchili 83 on July 29, 2017, 08:21:57 AM
No spin at work here, eh?
It's politics, everyone believes what they want to believe, and politicians diligently attempt to make the public's confirmation bias as easy on them as possible.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on July 29, 2017, 12:34:33 AM
Let's see. The environment, immigration, tax cuts, military use of torture, and health care, for starters.
Other then early Friday morning, where are the votes from McCain bucking the party line on these issues?
And to be quite clear, McCain wasn't voting against the GOP thought process of what the health insurance market should look like. He was voting against the ghastly trashing of Senate policy and decorum that McConnell has ushered in since 2006.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 29, 2017, 07:25:44 AM
These kinds of stats are always a bit misleading, though, because the Senate (and House) takes dozens of votes every session in which there is no real debate. Like ceremonial declarations that July 29, 2017 shall be known as "Support Your Local VFW Day" to noncontroversial appointments of ambassadors, judges, etc.
So, I think you'd find that McCain not only votes with the GOP majority 86 percent of the time, he probably votes with the Democrats 60-70 percent of the time.
Of course there are procedural motions involved in every voting record. But for a man with a 30 year career having an 86% return rate to be described as "consistently taking stands against his party" isn't based on reality.
One may have that perception of him as the result of a narrative but the details don't flesh that out in a truthful manner.
Quote from: forgetful on July 28, 2017, 05:09:34 PM
To be fair, the insurance companies wanted the GOP plans.
As to getting back to the topic. I'm hearing Preibus is looking for a job, maybe he could be cast as a young Maverick.
I think you are wrong here. The insurance companies have said repeatedly they do not want Obamacare repealed.
And just for Lennie, it is the insurance companies that told people they could not keep their own doctor (to maximize profits), not Obamacare.
Quote from: Jockey on July 29, 2017, 10:30:31 AM
I think you are wrong here. The insurance companies have said repeatedly they do not want Obamacare repealed.
And just for Lennie, it is the insurance companies that told people they could not keep their own doctor (to maximize profits), not Obamacare.
Why would they want Obamcare to be repealed? As it currently stands, they can participate if it is profitable, and drop out if it isn't.
It was the promoters of Obamacare that said you could keep your doctor, even knowing full well it was a load of crap, not the insurance companies. http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/politics/tapper-gruber/index.html
The insurance companies were under no obligation to keep the politicians' promises if it wasn't spelled out in the law.
Quote from: Badgerhater on July 28, 2017, 03:35:27 PM
People say that Bill Clinton was pretty likable during the Vietnam War. Maybe not as likable as Trump, but much more likeable than GWB, who was only likeable 28 days a month.
People find W's service in the Guard as a negative but he did serve. Moreover, he went through UPT at Moody AFB then the F 102 RTU. The attrition rate throughout that process exceeded 60%.
Air Guard and Air Reserve rated officers go through the same syllabus as Big Blue. Bush earned his wings and that is not an easy accomplishment.
Quote from: keefe on July 29, 2017, 11:22:27 AM
People find W's service in the Guard as a negative but he did serve.
You know better, Keefe.
Serving in the Guard is honorable now. Back then it was a simply a dodge for rich kids.
Quote from: Jockey on July 29, 2017, 10:30:31 AM
I think you are wrong here. The insurance companies have said repeatedly they do not want Obamacare repealed.
And just for Lennie, it is the insurance companies that told people they could not keep their own doctor (to maximize profits), not Obamacare.
I did indeed overstate the position of the health insurance lobby.
Anthem supported the GOP plan.
The rest stayed out of the public fray. The plan was expected to make the insurance industry billions; they were not 100% supportive though, because the insurance industry wanted more money for themselves.
They were definitely not excited by the GOP plan being shot down though, and that was my larger point. I should have chosen my words more carefully.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 29, 2017, 07:27:54 AM
McCain publicly announced a month before the election that he was not supporting Trump and would not vote for Trump.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-arizona-sen-john-mccain-revokes-trump-1475961057-htmlstory.html
First of all, McCain DID endorse Trump, despite all of the candidates many faults, horrible traits, douchey tweets, lack of support of veterans, and complete dissing of McCain's military record.
https://qz.com/769818/why-john-mccain-endorsed-donald-trump-the-man-who-mocked-his-military-service/
In fact, it was Arizona's junior senator, Jeff Flake who consistently repudiated Trump, even calling the wall "nutty." McCain, meanwhile, spit out the party line: GOP voters had their say, so he will back Trump.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/john-mccain-jeff-flake-donald-trump/index.html
It was only after the P-grabby recording became public in October that McCain finally rescinded his endorsement.
Meanwhile, with actions as a guide rather than words, McCain voted with Trump's agenda 87% of the time (even though he had been predicted to do so only 62% of the time). More significantly, he voted with Trump's agenda on all but two items through May 4.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/john-mccain/
Only after May 4 did McCain show in his actions that he wasn't going to support Trump. And he also started forcefully criticizing many of Trump's actions and policies. In June, he said U.S. leadership was worse under Trump than under Obama, and he also started to harshly criticize all of the Russia ties Trump and his family have.
And then came the healthcare vote, a classic F-U.
So yes, I was disappointed when the "maverick" fell in line behind Trump, but proud of him that he increasingly saw what anybody with intelligence, common sense and decency saw.
I admit that maybe I'm being too hard on McCain because I expected too much of him in relation to Trump. Compared to most, he has called out the worst president in our nation's history fairly often. And for that I am grateful.
Long live John McCain!
i couldn't wait for the political board to re-open-yay yay ! let's party!
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 29, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
i couldn't wait for the political board to re-open-yay yay ! let's party!
The political board, like Chicos, isn't here anymore.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on July 29, 2017, 03:52:23 PM
The political board, like Chicos, isn't here anymore.
I chuckled
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on July 29, 2017, 03:52:23 PM
The political board, like Chicos, isn't here anymore.
Line of the week. Way to sneak it in before Saturday ended!
I know this has already been locked, but let me close this out by commenting on a moderator report we received:
QuoteSeriously Rocky. I come to Scoop partially to get away from this. Doesn't matter which side. Please do one of two things. Either restart the politics section so I can avoid it by not going into it, or start enforcing the rules
First, let me state that this is much more than just me. When you report things, it goes to all 4 moderators, and only occasionally am I the first one to act on the report.
Next, we agree (mostly), that we don't want politics. You're assuming we monitor everything that you folks post 24/7 and that's not true at all - especially on the superbar. I read about 5% of what's posted here. So, don't assume we're just letting political commentary happen. Instead, assume we don't even read it or do anything about it unless it's reported.
It's really up to you guys to self-enforce. If an individual poster is going off the rails, report a few of their posts, and we'll try to resolve it somehow (anywhere from a warning to a lifetime ban, depending on the moderator's mood on that day).