MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: muguru on April 05, 2017, 11:47:26 AM
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My focus has now switched from Egor, to Dedric...Bring it home Stan!
L. Jason SmithVerified account
@JasonSmith929
Letter I just read over the air from Memphis forwards KJ and Dedric Lawson. Both will transfer. Absolute bombshell.
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We could get Egor and Dedric Lawson.
There are so many interesting options out there right now.
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We could get Egor and Dedric Lawson.
There are so many interesting options out there right now.
I'd keep an eye on Mark Alstork..Brett Nelson and he have a connection. Not saying I'd want him, but I could see MU being interested.
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Dedric Lawson's rebounding, blocked shots and overall offensive efficiency are great. But his outside shooting is scary — and not in a good way. He made just 30 of 110 threes last season. That's just 27%. Bad enough to drag his eFG% below 50 percent, lower than every player on MU's 2016-17 roster except for Duane and Haanif.
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We don't need him to shoot threes...
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We don't need him to shoot threes...
If he's only going to hit 27% of them, Memphis didn't need him to shoot threes, either. But he took (and missed) more of them than Henry did in his freshman season. I don't find that encouraging.
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He won't be in any position to shoot 3s on this offense (playing the 4 or 5 with 3 outside shooters at all times). Who knows, he could see a slight uptick with less pressure on 3s.
He would be extremely valuable and is worth considering. But bets are on them being a package deal. We can't do anything that jeopardizes Joey, IMO
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My guess is they're a package deal, which means we'd have to cut someone just to have a scholarship for Joey. I'd pass.
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We could get Egor and Dedric Lawson.
There are so many interesting options out there right now.
Egor at least has a tie with Stan. The Lawson's had no interest in MU in their high school recruiting, from Memphis, so don't get any reason why they would be an option. But, Dedric was a big time recruit and will make some team very happy.
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My guess is they're a package deal, which means we'd have to cut someone just to have a scholarship for Joey. I'd pass.
Regardless of who signs, I bet you a dollar that there is at least one transfer between now and Joey Hauser announcing his commitment.
I don't know who it would be and have zero information, but history tells us that kids leave programs.
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Regardless of who signs, I bet you a dollar that there is at least one transfer between now and Joey Hauser announcing his commitment.
I don't know who it would be and have zero information, but history tells us that kids leave programs.
If that's the case it will likely happen soon - like within the next couple of weeks. A Joey Hauser commitment will likely come before November.
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Memphis is losing all of its players, as is UConn.
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Regardless of who signs, I bet you a dollar that there is at least one transfer between now and Joey Hauser announcing his commitment.
I don't know who it would be and have zero information, but history tells us that kids leave programs.
I'm with Sultan...at this point, I'd be surprised if we had a transfer out before Hauser announces his destination. I would be floored if it was later than September, and I doubt we'll have anyone announcing a new destination before that unless their mind is virtually made up already.
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I'm with Sultan...at this point, I'd be surprised if we had a transfer out before Hauser announces his destination. I would be floored if it was later than September, and I doubt we'll have anyone announcing a new destination before that unless their mind is virtually made up already.
In my opinion the earliest an outbound transfer would occur at this juncture is next winter break.
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Memphis is losing all of its players, as is UConn.
AAC = Mid Major, ai-na?
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In my opinion the earliest an outbound transfer would occur at this juncture is next winter break.
Any thoughts as to who?
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Any thoughts as to who?
I'm sure what glow meant was a Sandy/Traci situation where the player ends up filling a lesser role on the team than they anticipated. As such, there's no way to know who it would be until we get to the winter break and see what roles the members of the roster are filling.
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Meh, not much of a shock for me. They put up dominate numbers for Memphis and they didn't even sniff the NIT. Plus, the coach that recruited them isn't at Memphis anymore. I would probably want to move to a higher level of competition too.
Doubt we get involved here. They are most likely a package deal and would eat up all of of our scholarships for this season and next. Takes us out of the grad transfer game (I would like at least one to make sure next season is an improvement over this one) and puts in a situation where someone is getting pole-axed before next season if we want Joey.
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Doubt we get involved here. They are most likely a package deal and would eat up all of of our scholarships for this season and next. Takes us out of the grad transfer game (I would like at least one to make sure next season is an improvement over this one) and puts in a situation where someone is getting pole-axed before next season if we want Joey.
TAMU, I agree.
I like where our team is and what's coming in for next year. I suspect if we chase these guys, that's a clear signal Joey ain't coming. Or there is serious doubt Joey will come here.
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I'm sure what glow meant was a Sandy/Traci situation where the player ends up filling a lesser role on the team than they anticipated. As such, there's no way to know who it would be until we get to the winter break and see what roles the members of the roster are filling.
I don't think anyone would leave mid season next year. If Cheatham or Heldt left midseason they could only play one semester their senior year. Sacar just red shirted and Sam and Markus are starters. So if anyone were to leave it would have to be over this summer or next.
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Early onset dementia
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I'm sure what glow meant was a Sandy/Traci situation where the player ends up filling a lesser role on the team than they anticipated. As such, there's no way to know who it would be until we get to the winter break and see what roles the members of the roster are filling.
This. Thanks brew.
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Memphis is losing all of its players, as is UConn.
Couldn't happen to two nicer programs.
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I don't think anyone would leave mid season next year. If Cheatham or Heldt left midseason they could only play one semester their senior year. Sacar just red shirted and Sam and Markus are starters. So if anyone were to leave it would have to be over this summer or next.
Yep. A freshman could leave mid year I suppose.
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Not sure why I'm even bothering because this yet is another situation where there is absolutely no reason to believe there is interest from either side, but I'd take both of them no question asked. I'm pretty confident Joey and the Hausers know that there will be a scholarship available for Joey to take at any time he would like to. If you can add 2 big time players, you do it.
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Not sure why I'm even bothering because this yet is another situation where there is absolutely no reason to believe there is interest from either side, but I'd take both of them no question asked. I'm pretty confident Joey and the Hausers know that there will be a scholarship available for Joey to take at any time he would like to. If you can add 2 big time players, you do it.
Why would you add them if you weren't going to play them? If you're going to play them then why would Joey come?
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My focus has now switched from Egor, to Dedric...Bring it home Stan!
L. Jason SmithVerified account
@JasonSmith929
Letter I just read over the air from Memphis forwards KJ and Dedric Lawson. Both will transfer. Absolute bombshell.
Now if we can just get your attention to shift from Scoop to Dodd's board.
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Why would you add them if you weren't going to play them? If you're going to play them then why would Joey come?
Healthy competition is a good thing. Making dudes earn their PT is a good thing.
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Healthy competition is a good thing. Making dudes earn their PT is a good thing.
At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry. When Joey was a frosh, you'd have Heldt, Froling, Sam, Eke, John, and Cain, and the two Lawson guys would be coming off their transfer year. Would Joey really want to be the 9th front court guy as a frosh?
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At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry. When Joey was a frosh, you'd have Heldt, Froling, Sam, Eke, John, and Cain, and the two Lawson guys would be coming off their transfer year. Would Joey really want to be the 9th front court guy as a frosh?
I agree that we as fans need to stop salivating at every kid who announces he is transferring, unless there is some reason to think the transfer would consider MU.
Why bring them to MU? They're both listed as guard-forwards. I haven't seen them play much, if at all, but seems like you could have at least 2 of them and Joey on the court together at all times, and maybe even 3 if you want to throw Joey in at the 5 in a very small lineup.
The more talent you can bring in the better. I don't think UNC sits around thinking, "Well we have Meeks and Hicks already, so we don't need Tony Bradley."
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At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry. When Joey was a frosh, you'd have Heldt, Froling, Sam, Eke, John, and Cain, and the two Lawson guys would be coming off their transfer year. Would Joey really want to be the 9th front court guy as a frosh?
This is all so much speculation (not from you, 4ever, but from the board overall) it's silly for this dialogue to continue, but ... OK ... sure, I'll play.
Don't Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and Carolina kids face this kind of situation all the time? The best, most confident ones do not choose the path of least resistance.
Then again, he probably would be handed a spot by Bucky, and they supposedly our main competition for him, right?
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This is all so much speculation (not from you, 4ever, but from the board overall) it's silly for this dialogue to continue, but ... OK ... sure, I'll play.
Don't Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and Carolina kids face this kind of situation all the time? The best, most confident ones do not choose the path of least resistance.
Then again, he probably would be handed a spot by Bucky, and they supposedly our main competition for him, right?
My take:
1. We're not Kentucky, Duke, Kansas or Carolina, yet.
2. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and Carolina don't often face this situation because of the number of one and dones they get.
3. Fighting for playing time is one thing, fighting for scrimmage time is something totally different. Six guys vying for three frontcourt positions is competition, nine is a poisonous atmosphere.
I guess you dump guys if you have too to make everything work out. It worked with Wally, right?
Granted, I'm arguing one extreme, here. But, it does bother me a little bit when some posters can't hear of a new transfer coming on the market, without immediately saying; "I want, I want".
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Don't want these guys if they eat up two years of scholarships for one year of play.
Give me a grad transfer and Joey.
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At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry. When Joey was a frosh, you'd have Heldt, Froling, Sam, Eke, John, and Cain, and the two Lawson guys would be coming off their transfer year. Would Joey really want to be the 9th front court guy as a frosh?
Or you can stop getting butt hurt about fans rosterbating in the offseason. Marquette has two open scholarships and will likely fill them. In the meantime speculation is totally warranted. What the hell else is there to discuss regarding Marquette basketball?
Edit: this isn't totally in reference to the Memphis guys. We're not getting them. But a grad transfer or two will happen, and perhaps a traditional transfer as well.
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Don't want these guys if they eat up two years of scholarships for one year of play.
Give me a grad transfer and Joey.
Now that sounds downright sensible.
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Or you can stop getting butt hurt about fans rosterbating in the offseason. Marquette has two open scholarships and will likely fill them. In the meantime speculation is totally warranted. What the hell else is there to discuss regarding Marquette basketball?
Expressing an opinion contray to yours qualifies as butt hurt? I can argue the other side without making it personal, can you?
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Expressing an opinion contray to yours qualifies as butt hurt? I can argue the other side without making it personal, can you?
Hardly making it personal. You say the same sh** every time someone mentions a transfer because god forbid what will our current players think!? It's the off-season and Marquette has scholarships to give. speculation is warranted.
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The great thing about rosterbating is you can fantasize about any recruits or transfers you want.
So go ahead and get all excited about the Lawson twins. But I bet they go elsewhere. And Wojo might not even inquire.
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Now if we can just get your attention to shift from Scoop to Dodd's board.
Wow really?? That's kind of a Dbag thing to say over posting a tweet isn't it??
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I agree that we as fans need to stop salivating at every kid who announces he is transferring, unless there is some reason to think the transfer would consider MU.
Why bring them to MU? They're both listed as guard-forwards. I haven't seen them play much, if at all, but seems like you could have at least 2 of them and Joey on the court together at all times, and maybe even 3 if you want to throw Joey in at the 5 in a very small lineup.
The more talent you can bring in the better. I don't think UNC sits around thinking, "Well we have Meeks and Hicks already, so we don't need Tony Bradley."
Thank you, this is what i always say...you get as much talent as you possibly can, and worry about the fallout from there. If a lesser player transfers because you brought in someone better...oh well. It's about getting as much talent as you possibly can...that's what goives you the best chance of winning and winning big.
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Don't want these guys if they eat up two years of scholarships for one year of play.
Give me a grad transfer and Joey.
Agree. Right on.
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The great thing about rosterbating is you can fantasize about any recruits or transfers you want.
So go ahead and get all excited about the Lawson twins. But I bet they go elsewhere. And Wojo might not even inquire.
I bet he won't, rather have wojo and stan go after Egor
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Don't want these guys if they eat up two years of scholarships for one year of play.
Give me a grad transfer and Joey.
Right on as usual my man.
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Wow really?? That's kind of a Dbag thing to say over posting a tweet isn't it??
I laughed.
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Don't want these guys if they eat up two years of scholarships for one year of play.
Give me a grad transfer and Joey.
Now that sounds downright sensible.
Agree. Right on.
Right on as usual my man.
Again, there is no chance they end up at MU so it's all a waste of time, but real actually has it wrong. You'd be tying up 3 years of scholarships for 2 years of play from Dedric (which, in my opinion, is totally worth it. The guy averaged 19 points and 10 rebounds a game. You don't see high major players putting up those numbers very often) and 4 years of scholarships for 3 years of KJ (who averaged a pretty dang solid 12 and 8 himself).
Not happening, but if it could you would be absolutely crazy not to take them in the blink of an eye.
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Hardly making it personal. You say the same sh** every time someone mentions a transfer because god forbid what will our current players think!? It's the off-season and Marquette has scholarships to give. speculation is warranted.
5J. You know I love transfers. Hell, I dedicate a discordant amount of my personal time in April to tracking every transfer in the off-season. But keeping your current team chemistry in mind is an important part of roster building. Its not all about getting talent, it about getting talent that works together. Its also not just about next year. Gotta make sure we are building a sustrightble program. Too many short term players like transfer, grad transfers, and jucos is why we fell apart in Buzz' last year. He was a wizard for the first 5 at filling the holes with the right pieces. His coaching acumen allowed him to turn teams with huge flaws into winners. But too many missteps, and it all comes down like a house of cards. Buzz didn't have the foundation of four year players to fall back on when too many surprises like McKay and Blue leaving came up at once.
I personally have no interest in the Lawson brothers for Marquette. If we could get one, absolutely. But both is too much. That would give us a junior class of D Lawson, K Lawson, Froling, Howard, Hauser, Anim. Half your players in one class is dangerous. It also gives you Heldt, Hauser, Froling, Cain, John, Eke, D Lawson, K Lawson, Bailey and theoretically J Hauser at the 3-5 positions. 10 out of 13 players. I'd be nervous with only three or four players (depending on if a guard or forward transferred to make room for Joey) who could play the 1-2....especially with only one who I'd trust at the point as of now. I see likely transfers and negative recruiting implications. Not worth two years (assuming they don't grad transfer or Dedric goes pro, both of which seem within the realm of possibility) of admittedly talented players (they are currently my #1 and #3 most talented traditional transfer) not at a position of need IMHO.
Bringing up team chemistry and make up is a valid point when considering transfers.
At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry. When Joey was a frosh, you'd have Heldt, Froling, Sam, Eke, John, and Cain, and the two Lawson guys would be coming off their transfer year. Would Joey really want to be the 9th front court guy as a frosh?
It's the offseason and we are fans. We salivate over transfers because we want the best and most talented players to wear blue and gold. We should give thought to team chemistry, but the reality is, we don't know how it will or won't be impacted. We don't know these kids. Some might get pissed and say I'm out of here. Others might be salivating along with us because they see a teammate who can help them win a championship. What we do know, is the numbers they put up and how that could potentially translate to more Ws for Marquette.
Trying to stop fans from getting excited about possible transfers is like me trying to get Sand Knit to get over his hate boner for Luke, or Lenny trying to stop Chicos after he put him on ignore, or anyone trying to stop Rocket Surgeon from defending Chicos against Lenny, or trying to stop Willie from tweeting as Mazos Burger (we all know its you!), or trying to stop Wades from reminding us that the most important game of the season is the next one, or trying to stop Jay Bee from mispelling matter as matta and bowl as bowel....
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At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry. When Joey was a frosh, you'd have Heldt, Froling, Sam, Eke, John, and Cain, and the two Lawson guys would be coming off their transfer year. Would Joey really want to be the 9th front court guy as a frosh?
There is a very real possibility that when Joey is a frosh he will not be at MU. You do not turn down a good player for a player you might not get.
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There is a very real possibility that when Joey is a frosh he will not be at MU. You do not turn down a good player for a player you might not get.
Sure, it's a possibility. But even without Hauser, we are already looking at Heldt, Froling, John, Eke, Cain, Bailey, and Sam that are in the 6'7" to 6'11" range. Now some of that will go to the wing minutes, but that's a lot of able bodies to play the 4/5 positions. It's not like we're suffering for size. I can see fitting Joey in with those 7 players, but even taking one more big body that won't be eligible until 2018 seems like really stacking the deck in a way to encourage transfers. You can probably only play 3 of those guys together at a time, the math of 8 going into 3 for significant minutes would be quite the juggling act, much less adding a ninth.
If we have any need in the transfer market, I don't think it's another big. (And as a Marquette fan, I truly can't believe I'm saying that).
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UNC had no problems finding minutes for guys that were 6'7", 6'10", 6'9", 6'10", 6'8", and 6'8". If a couple players' feelings were hurt because they didn't get the minutes they wanted, I think the championship trophy they just brought back from Phoenix probably outweighs those hurt feelings to Roy, the fans, and the school. On a 13 man roster, there are going to be 5ish players who just aren't going to get a ton of minutes. Whether they're 6' guards or 7' big men, that's just how it works. You can't find minutes for all 13 players.
Bring in the talent. The best players will earn their minutes, and those who fall behind can either hit the gym and get better, be happy to be on a great team but not much of a contributor, or look for other options.
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We should be looking at bringing in the best talent available, period. However, we need to stay clear of the crazy Dads that think they are the John Woodens of assistant coaching because of their kids. Don't need the drama, don't need the distraction.
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UNC had no problems finding minutes for guys that were 6'7", 6'10", 6'9", 6'10", 6'8", and 6'8". If a couple players' feelings were hurt because they didn't get the minutes they wanted, I think the championship trophy they just brought back from Phoenix probably outweighs those hurt feelings to Roy, the fans, and the school. On a 13 man roster, there are going to be 5ish players who just aren't going to get a ton of minutes. Whether they're 6' guards or 7' big men, that's just how it works. You can't find minutes for all 13 players.
Bring in the talent. The best players will earn their minutes, and those who fall behind can either hit the gym and get better, be happy to be on a great team but not much of a contributor, or look for other options.
For me, it's about balancing the roster. Yes, you can find minutes for those guys. But you need guys at the 1-3 positions too. More specifically, the 1. I'm just nervous about the idea of Howard being the only PG on the roster. If you take a big transfer now and Joey next year, that's 9 effective bigs and three more (Anim, Cheatham, Elliott) that are 2/3s. Maybe the Cheatham-at-point experiment would work better the second time around, but I'd be a skeptic.
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At some point, I think we as fans have to stop salivating over every shiny new transfer and give a thought to team chemistry.
I agree with this analysis. Has to be a fit on both sides. Never stop recruiting...but by mid-season, realize that there will likely be a 9-man rotation and the last four guys off the bench will have minimal impact except in a few games one or another step up.
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For me, it's about balancing the roster. Yes, you can find minutes for those guys. But you need guys at the 1-3 positions too. More specifically, the 1. I'm just nervous about the idea of Howard being the only PG on the roster. If you take a big transfer now and Joey next year, that's 9 effective bigs and three more (Anim, Cheatham, Elliott) that are 2/3s. Maybe the Cheatham-at-point experiment would work better the second time around, but I'd be a skeptic.
I don't disagree but those things work themselves out. Rewind 12 months and we were wondering why Wojo would be interested in some USC grad transfer that plays the wing, is allergic to grabbing rebounds, and has even played the point when we had so much depth at the point/wing and so little big men. Fast forward 9 months from there and Sandy and Traci are gowne, Sacar is redshirting, Cheatham is struggling big time, JJJ still doesn't have any kind of consistency, and thank God said USC grad transfer wing who we thought we wouldn't need chose Marquette.
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Looking ahead..not that you'd want him running the point necessarily but Joey is a very good ballhandler..brought it up for SPASH regularly. If anything that gives you a lot of flexibility as to where you can play him and others.
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5J. You know I love transfers. Hell, I dedicate a discordant amount of my personal time in April to tracking every transfer in the off-season. But keeping your current team chemistry in mind is an important part of roster building. Its not all about getting talent, it about getting talent that works together. Its also not just about next year. Gotta make sure we are building a sustrightble program. Too many short term players like transfer, grad transfers, and jucos is why we fell apart in Buzz' last year. He was a wizard for the first 5 at filling the holes with the right pieces. His coaching acumen allowed him to turn teams with huge flaws into winners. But too many missteps, and it all comes down like a house of cards. Buzz didn't have the foundation of four year players to fall back on when too many surprises like McKay and Blue leaving came up at once.
I personally have no interest in the Lawson brothers for Marquette. If we could get one, absolutely. But both is too much. That would give us a junior class of D Lawson, K Lawson, Froling, Howard, Hauser, Anim. Half your players in one class is dangerous. It also gives you Heldt, Hauser, Froling, Cain, John, Eke, D Lawson, K Lawson, Bailey and theoretically J Hauser at the 3-5 positions. 10 out of 13 players. I'd be nervous with only three or four players (depending on if a guard or forward transferred to make room for Joey) who could play the 1-2....especially with only one who I'd trust at the point as of now. I see likely transfers and negative recruiting implications. Not worth two years (assuming they don't grad transfer or Dedric goes pro, both of which seem within the realm of possibility) of admittedly talented players (they are currently my #1 and #3 most talented traditional transfer) not at a position of need IMHO.
Bringing up team chemistry and make up is a valid point when considering transfers.
It's the offseason and we are fans. We salivate over transfers because we want the best and most talented players to wear blue and gold. We should give thought to team chemistry, but the reality is, we don't know how it will or won't be impacted. We don't know these kids. Some might get pissed and say I'm out of here. Others might be salivating along with us because they see a teammate who can help them win a championship. What we do know, is the numbers they put up and how that could potentially translate to more Ws for Marquette.
Trying to stop fans from getting excited about possible transfers is like me trying to get Sand Knit to get over his hate boner for Luke, or Lenny trying to stop Chicos after he put him on ignore, or anyone trying to stop Rocket Surgeon from defending Chicos against Lenny, or trying to stop Willie from tweeting as Mazos Burger (we all know its you!), or trying to stop Wades from reminding us that the most important game of the season is the next one, or trying to stop Jay Bee from mispelling matter as matta and bowl as bowel....
Great post. I agree with all of it, but I think you know that. To be clear, I've never said much about the Lawson twins. Taking both together doesn't work for us after the Elliot commitment, for multiple reasons. They're intriguing players, but our current roster make up doesn't allow for them - plus we need help next year. Morrow seems like a similar option, and one where a package deal isn't on the table. At this point I expect either 2 grad transfers, or 1 grad and 1 traditional transfer.
I like transfers because unless you're a blue blood, one of the best ways to build a team is via transfers. I also like discussing transfers at the moment because its the offseason, and my baseball team is going to suck donkey nuts this year, and obsessing over that is usually how I spend my spring months. Plus, we have two available scholarships!!
Obviously team chemistry is important. I get that. But Marquette should always strive to bring in the best talent that they can. If that means someone at the end of the bench gets mad and leaves, oh well. Should we not have recruited Markus because of Traci? While I wish Traci would have stuck around (at least through the end of the year for his sake), that situation took care of itself. Or how about Sam because of Sandy? Generally speaking, bringing in better talent is always a positive. As someone who has been recruited overmyself (not at the D1 level, admittedly), it is just is what it is, especially at this level. You fight through it, or you find what you believe to be greener pastures.
I just think it is silly for poster on a fan message board to get peeved about others discussing potential transfers when we have 2 available scholarships. Obviously roster make up and chemistry need to be considered when building a roster, but that isn't any of our jobs. It is nice to have a place to discuss available players, even if they aren't realistic options for MU. Again, it is the offseason after all.
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For me, it's about balancing the roster. Yes, you can find minutes for those guys. But you need guys at the 1-3 positions too. More specifically, the 1. I'm just nervous about the idea of Howard being the only PG on the roster. If you take a big transfer now and Joey next year, that's 9 effective bigs and three more (Anim, Cheatham, Elliott) that are 2/3s. Maybe the Cheatham-at-point experiment would work better the second time around, but I'd be a skeptic.
Cain, Bailey, and Sam are not "bigs". Those guys are all 2s and 3s with size. Sam played the 4 out of necessity last year, but if he were on a team with size, that wouldn't have happened unless the team went with a 4 guard lineup.
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I don't disagree but those things work themselves out. Rewind 12 months and we were wondering why Wojo would be interested in some USC grad transfer that plays the wing, is allergic to grabbing rebounds, and has even played the point when we had so much depth at the point/wing and so little big men. Fast forward 9 months from there and Sandy and Traci are gowne, Sacar is redshirting, Cheatham is struggling big time, JJJ still doesn't have any kind of consistency, and thank God said USC grad transfer wing who we thought we wouldn't need chose Marquette.
Yessir, wades. No sane person would argue against this.
Get great players and worry about feelings and chemistry and other non-measurable potential "situations" later.
We want to take steps toward being a blueblood? THAT'S what bluebloods do!
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Cain, Bailey, and Sam are not "bigs". Those guys are all 2s and 3s with size. Sam played the 4 out of necessity last year, but if he were on a team with size, that wouldn't have happened unless the team went with a 4 guard lineup.
I agree with this. We can trot out Bailey, Cain and probably even Sam to play a guard position. If Elliott can handle the ball, we'll be fine.
Look we want to be bigger and more athletic. And now we think we are going to be too big?
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Cain, Bailey, and Sam are not "bigs". Those guys are all 2s and 3s with size. Sam played the 4 out of necessity last year, but if he were on a team with size, that wouldn't have happened unless the team went with a 4 guard lineup.
Positions no matta. Cain, Hauser, and Bailey could all play together at the 2/3/4. Switchables, if you will. Collectively there would be enough dribbling, passing, shooting, and rebounding to make it work. Joey Hauser would fit this mold, too.
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Positions no matta. Cain, Hauser, and Bailey could all play together at the 2/3/4. Switchables, if you will. Collectively there would be enough dribbling, passing, shooting, and rebounding to make it work. Joey Hauser would fit this mold, too.
Yes. They are not exclusively big men. They are not post players. They can play on the wing or at 2G. It would be a team with size and great shooting - exactly what we've wanted for years.
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Yes. They are not exclusively big men. They are not post players. They can play on the wing or at 2G. It would be a team with size and great shooting - exactly what we've wanted for years.
I don't know about Cain or Bailey, but I don't want to see Sam trying to defend the opponent's SG.
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I don't know about Cain or Bailey, but I don't want to see Sam trying to defend the opponent's SG.
Nor do I want to see him guarding BE power forwards any longer. Sam is a wing.
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Cain, Bailey, and Sam are not "bigs". Those guys are all 2s and 3s with size. Sam played the 4 out of necessity last year, but if he were on a team with size, that wouldn't have happened unless the team went with a 4 guard lineup.
I'm going to fully disagree with you there. I'm a firm believer that position is not based on what your offensive role is, but rather who you can guard on defense, especially in a man-to-man which is Wojo's preference.
Would you ever want to see Sam Hauser trying to defend Khadeen Carrington one-on-one? Shamorie Ponds? Marcus Foster? Sam's best fit is probably defending 3s on the wing, but if we're going to talk secondary positions, I think it's a lot easier for someone like him to gain the strength needed to guard a 4 than the quickness needed to guard a 2. Until they prove otherwise, the same will likely apply to Cain and Bailey, even if they project as wings on offense.
There are certainly exceptions. Jimmy Butler was 6'7" and could guard 1-4. But he was a first-round NBA draft pick. Syracuse does a good job of incorporating numerous long, athletic wings, but they mask their quickness issues by playing zone. Unless we have 3 Jimmy Butlers on our roster, those guys are likely going to be playing 3/4 rather than 2/3. And if we do have 3 JFBs, we can stop thinking about getting tournament berths and start planning to cut down the nets in Minneapolis in 2019.
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I'm going to fully disagree with you there. I'm a firm believer that position is not based on what your offensive role is, but rather who you can guard on defense, especially in a man-to-man which is Wojo's preference.
Would you ever want to see Sam Hauser trying to defend Khadeen Carrington one-on-one? Shamorie Ponds? Marcus Foster? Sam's best fit is probably defending 3s on the wing, but if we're going to talk secondary positions, I think it's a lot easier for someone like him to gain the strength needed to guard a 4 than the quickness needed to guard a 2. Until they prove otherwise, the same will likely apply to Cain and Bailey, even if they project as wings on offense.
I literally just said Sam is a wing. He shouldn't be categorized as a "big".
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Jamil
Anyone that knows a lick about building a program would prefer leaving a schollie open vs. taking guys, just to take guys. Programs looking to build something are patient and not in a rush to sign any clown off the street. If Wojo thinks we are top 20 or better team by adding a transfer then he should do it. If he thinks we are a bubble team he is far better off banking the schollie.
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Chemistry is obviously a key factor in evaluating any transfer. But I think Wojo has clearly demonstrated good instincts in this regard.
In Wojo's first season, graduate transfer Matt Carlino stepped in to immediately become Marquette's best player — leading the team in minutes, points and steals per game. Indiana transfer Luke Fischer was fifth on the team in minutes played and third in scoring. Both were great additions to the roster and total team players. Fischer finished his MU career as one of the school's top 50 all-time scorers and rebounders.
Transfer Wally Ellenson was nowhere near as big of a contributor in 2014-15. But he did contribute, accepted his role off the bench and fully supported the team.
This past season, Andrew Rowsey and Katin Reinhardt became part of the main rotation as transfers — finishing 2nd and 5th in points scored, respectively. Whether starting or coming off the bench, they played hard and did everything they could to make the team better.
Based on that track record, chemistry is the least of my concerns when it comes to transfers. I'm confident Wojo has it covered.
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Jamil
Anyone that knows a lick about building a program would prefer leaving a schollie open vs. taking guys, just to take guys. Programs looking to build something are patient and not in a rush to sign any clown off the street. If Wojo thinks we are top 20 or better team by adding a transfer then he should do it. If he thinks we are a bubble team he is far better off banking the schollie.
I've never suggested taking guys just to take guys. If you paid any attention to the players that are currently available on the transfer market, you'd know that there are tons of players out there that would be major contributors to very good teams. No one is suggesting "adding clowns off the street".
But thanks for the input. By the way - I thought you banned yourself?
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Nor do I want to see him guarding BE power forwards any longer. Sam is a wing.
Who are these Big East power forwards that we are concerned about for next year? I get that the BE has a rep for big, bad men at the 4, but let's be a little more concrete.
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Who are these Big East power forwards that we are concerned about for next year? I get that the BE has a rep for big, bad men at the 4, but let's be a little more concrete.
Guarding specific players isn't really the point. Are you suggesting that you think Sam Hauser should continue to primarily play the 4?
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I literally just said Sam is a wing. He shouldn't be categorized as a "big".
He's a lot more of a big than a guard, and he really should be able to guard more than one position. That means a 3/4 rather than a 2/3.
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Guarding specific players isn't really the point. Are you suggesting that you think Sam Hauser should continue to primarily play the 4?
It depends on the roster and the matchup — plus how far Sam develops in the offseason.
Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder and Lazar Hayward were all undersized big men at Marquette. But they had the strength and skill to play both the low and high post on both ends, not just the perimeter.
Sam's listed at 6-7, 225, very similar to Jimmy at the same point in his career. Right now he has the size to guard most college 3s and 4s, even some 5s. He has the frame to add more muscle. And at 19 years old, a growth spurt isn't completely out of the question. But he needs to get quicker (something Jimmy worked on throughout his MU career) and improve his defensive technique (positioning and footwork).
If he can do that, while gaining more confidence in his mid-range game and driving to the basket, I have no problem whatsoever with Sam playing significant minutes at the 4 spot.
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Jamil
I had banned by myself but watching your posts over transfers and recruiting caught my eye. I now understand your thought process much better and no longer confused on what direction you want for the program.
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Chemistry is obviously a key factor in evaluating any transfer. But I think Wojo has clearly demonstrated good instincts in this regard.
In Wojo's first season, graduate transfer Matt Carlino stepped in to immediately become Marquette's best player — leading the team in minutes, points and steals per game. Indiana transfer Luke Fischer was fifth on the team in minutes played and third in scoring. Both were great additions to the roster and total team players. Fischer finished his MU career as one of the school's top 50 all-time scorers and rebounders.
Transfer Wally Ellenson was nowhere near as big of a contributor in 2014-15. But he did contribute, accepted his role off the bench and fully supported the team.
This past season, Andrew Rowsey and Katin Reinhardt became part of the main rotation as transfers — finishing 2nd and 5th in points scored, respectively. Whether starting or coming off the bench, they played hard and did everything they could to make the team better.
Based on that track record, chemistry is the least of my concerns when it comes to transfers. I'm confident Wojo has it covered.
Outstanding points. Well done.
I also like what you said about Sam being able to play 4. If he continues to progress, it would create matchup problems for the opponent on defense, too!
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He's a lot more of a big than a guard, and he really should be able to guard more than one position. That means a 3/4 rather than a 2/3.
But the point is that someone like Cain or Bailey may able to guard a 2. And Sam *can* serve in the role of a traditional spot up shooter on offense, while Cain may be more of an driver. Simply put, if one or more of these wings *can* guard a two, it is a non issue.
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Sam's listed at 6-7, 225, very similar to Jimmy at the same point in his career. Right now he has the size to guard most college 3s and 4s, even some 5s. He has the frame to add more muscle. And at 19 years old, a growth spurt isn't completely out of the question. But he needs to get quicker (something Jimmy worked on throughout his MU career) and improve his defensive technique (positioning and footwork).
Well said. And I think it's easier to add muscle than quickness, which is why I see Sam as a 3/4. Natural position would be as a 3, but has the ability to play the 4 situationally.
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Jamil
I had banned by myself but watching your posts over transfers and recruiting caught my eye. I now understand your thought process much better and no longer confused on what direction you want for the program.
Lol, whatever ya say, big guy. ::)
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It depends on the roster and the matchup — plus how far Sam develops in the offseason.
Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder and Lazar Hayward were all undersized big men at Marquette. But they had the strength and skill to play both the low and high post on both ends, not just the perimeter.
Sam's listed at 6-7, 225, very similar to Jimmy at the same point in his career. Right now he has the size to guard most college 3s and 4s, even some 5s. He has the frame to add more muscle. And at 19 years old, a growth spurt isn't completely out of the question. But he needs to get quicker (something Jimmy worked on throughout his MU career) and improve his defensive technique (positioning and footwork).
If he can do that, while gaining more confidence in his mid-range game and driving to the basket, I have no problem whatsoever with Sam playing significant minutes at the 4 spot.
Sam Hauser is the next Jimmy Butler
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But the point is that someone like Cain or Bailey may able to guard a 2. And Sam *can* serve in the role of a traditional spot up shooter on offense, while Cain may be more of an driver. Simply put, if one or more of these wings *can* guard a two, it is a non issue.
Well said. And I think it's easier to add muscle than quickness, which is why I see Sam as a 3/4. Natural position would be as a 3, but has the ability to play the 4 situationally.
I agree with both of these posts. Situationally, I have no problem with Sam playing the 4. But with the way our roster is going to be made up the next few years, I think we'll only see Sam playing in front court when we go "small". My belief is that he mainly played the 4 out of necessity this year.
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Jamil
For the record, hardly impressed with your thought process or path that thinking would take the program. I wish you were an avid UWM Panther fan, over avid MU fan. Your thinking would go hand in hand at UWM.
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I'm all for getting your 5 best players on the court as much as possible. If that means 2 sub 6 foot guards have to play the point and off guard, then I'm all for it. So if Sam and, just theoretically for argument's sake, 2 of Froling/John/Heldt are 3 of our 5 best players next year, I want Sam at the 3 and hopefully Froling at the 4 with John or Helt at the 5.
Having said that, I think Sam creates a lot more of a problem for other teams at the 4 than he causes problems for MU being at the 4. And I think he creates more problems as a 4 than he would as a 3. The only game where I thought he got burned as a 4 for MU this year was the second Butler game. Otherwise I thought he was probably our best defender, and offensively he drew a post out to the perimeter and made that person guard in an area he wasn't comfortable guarding most of the time.
I will believe Froling can play the 4 for us when I see it. If he is truly athletic enough to guard 4s and really can step out and consistently spread the court offensively then even better, just a bigger Sam and then Sam can be a big 3. But I have my doubts about it and think Froling probably plays the 5 along with Heldt and John and Sam get the 4 minutes. We'll see.
Sam Hauser is the next Jimmy Butler
Sam Hauser's game is absolutely nothing like Jimmy Butler's.
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I agree with both of these posts. Situationally, I have no problem with Sam playing the 4. But with the way our roster is going to be made up the next few years, I think we'll only see Sam playing in front court when we go "small". My belief is that he mainly played the 4 out of necessity this year.
I'd agree. And situationally, I can see him, Cain, and Bailey having to fill in that type of role in the years to come. I just think it's more likely that if those three guys are playing together, forcing someone to defend out of their traditional position, it's more likely they'll do so as a 4 than a 2.
That said, being able to throw a zone out with those three, Elliott at the point, and a shot blocker like John could be devastating.
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Jamil
For the record, hardly impressed with your thought process or path that thinking would take the program. I wish you were an avid UWM Panther fan, over avid MU fan. Your thinking would go hand in hand at UWM.
What in the world are you talking about? Wanting MU to recruit top notch players makes me a UWM fan? Got it.
In other news, in no way shape or form am I here to impress you. I couldn't give two sh*ts what you think.
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Jamil
For the record, hardly impressed with your thought process or path that thinking would take the program. I wish you were an avid UWM Panther fan, over avid MU fan. Your thinking would go hand in hand at UWM.
You probably should just go ban yourself again Goose...
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You probably should just go ban yourself again Goose...
Glad I am not alone. Not sure what he is trying to pin on me here.
Clearly I hurt his feelings calling him out for wanting MU to be SLU.
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Jamil
No hard feelings on my part from anything you have said or posted.
Sultan
Thanks for the reminder. Had some time to kill before a meeting and should have known better.
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I'd agree. And situationally, I can see him, Cain, and Bailey having to fill in that type of role in the years to come. I just think it's more likely that if those three guys are playing together, forcing someone to defend out of their traditional position, it's more likely they'll do so as a 4 than a 2.
That said, being able to throw a zone out with those three, Elliott at the point, and a shot blocker like John could be devastating.
Fair enough. Make sense. Definitely depends on where our last 2 scholarships go this year. If one goes to a guard transfer, all this talk is fairly moot. Or if we land a guard in our 2018 class along with Bailey and (hopefully) Joey, it is also moot.
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I'm all for getting your 5 best players on the court as much as possible. If that means 2 sub 6 foot guards have to play the point and off guard, then I'm all for it. So if Sam and, just theoretically for argument's sake, 2 of Froling/John/Heldt are 3 of our 5 best players next year, I want Sam at the 3 and hopefully Froling at the 4 with John or Helt at the 5.
Having said that, I think Sam creates a lot more of a problem for other teams at the 4 than he causes problems for MU being at the 4. And I think he creates more problems as a 4 than he would as a 3. The only game where I thought he got burned as a 4 for MU this year was the second Butler game. Otherwise I thought he was probably our best defender, and offensively he drew a post out to the perimeter and made that person guard in an area he wasn't comfortable guarding most of the time.
I will believe Froling can play the 4 for us when I see it. If he is truly athletic enough to guard 4s and really can step out and consistently spread the court offensively then even better, just a bigger Sam and then Sam can be a big 3. But I have my doubts about it and think Froling probably plays the 5 along with Heldt and John and Sam get the 4 minutes. We'll see.
Sam Hauser's game is absolutely nothing like Jimmy Butler's.
Jeesh, wades, I'm agreeing with you a lot these last coupla days. We both must be smarter than hell!
There was a post a few days back about our biggest surprise of the season. Sam's D wouldn't qualify as a top-5, but I was pleasantly surprised. I knew nothing about the kid, but he really took to D. Often battled much stronger guys to a standstill and did a nice job on quick, smaller kids on more than a few occasions.
If every Warrior had his "want-to" and fundamentals on D, we'd be a much better defensive team.
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Sam Hauser's game is absolutely nothing like Jimmy Butler's.
Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler and Lazar Hayward were three of the greatest players to wear a Marquette uniform in the past 25 years. They were each unique in what they brought to the court.
That said, I think you can draw some comparisons with Sam Hauser.
Size
Physically, Jae was an absolutely beast at 6-6/240. But Sam (6-7/225) has a remarkably similar physical profile to Jimmy (6-8/220) and Lazar (6-6/226). And that's comparing a freshman with the pre-draft measurements of two seniors; Sam has years to improve his strength and agility.
For now, let's set Jae aside and focus on Jimmy, Lazar and Sam.
Immediate impact
As a sophomore junior college transfer, Jimmy Butler played in all 35 games — one of 5 players on the roster to do so — averaging 5.6 ppg (5th on the team) and 3.9 rpg (4th) in 19.6 mpg (5th). He was tops on the team in offensive rebounding percentage (12.7%).
As a freshman, Lazar Hayward played in all 34 games — one of 7 players on the roster to do so — averaging 6.6 ppg (6th on the team) and 3.6 rpg (5th) in 16.3 mpg (7th). He was 2nd on the team in offensive rebounding percentage (12.5%) and 3rd in defensive rebounding percentage (13.2%).
As a freshman, Sam played in all 32 games — one of 5 players on the roster to do so — averaging 8.8 ppg (6th on the team) and 5.0 rpg (2nd) in 26.5 mpg (1st). He was tops on the team in defensive rebounding percentage (17.9%).
Ability to stretch the floor
Jimmy wasn't known for his 3-point shot while in college, taking fewer attempts during his entire Marquette career than Sam did in his freshman season. Nevertheless, he was a very good shooter (36-94 from 3-point land, or 38.3%) that defenders had to respect from the perimeter.
A similar story for Lazar, who could hit from outside the arc (he was 169-473 or 35.7% from 3-point range for his career), pop from mid-range or drive to the basket.
Neither Jimmy nor Lazar come close to matching Sam (63-139, 45.3%) for long-range shooting. While Markus Howard may shatter every one of Steve Novak's three-point records, Sam won't be far behind. He's a deadly sniper with immaculate form. That ability to draw out defenders will be all the more dangerous if Sam can develop his offensive game in terms of mid-range shooting (12-15 feet), post-ups and drives from the wing.
Efficiency
In his 3 seasons at Marquette, Jimmy posted offensive ratings of 131.2, 128.5 and 121.2. He shot better than 50% from 2-point range every year. And he hardly ever turned the ball over.
Lazar doesn't quite match up to the same standard, posting offensive ratings of 100.5, 109.8, 114.1 and 107.1 in his four seasons. But his usage rate was quite a bit higher than Jimmy's. If anything, Jimmy was possibly too selective when it came to shooting.
Sam's efficiency was nearly off the charts, finishing with a 127.8 ORtg in his freshman season. He shot better than 50% from 2-point range, with the vast majority of his attempts outside the arc. And, surprise, surprise, Sam led the team in protecting the ball (with a turnover percentage of just 10.8%).
Final notes
Remember, Sam's coming off his freshman year. It took Jimmy and Lazar years to develop into All Big East players. But Sam's performance on the court so far compares favorably. His progress next season should tell us a lot about how high his ceiling is.
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I think you will see a lot of Sam and Cain playing next to each other at the forward positions and switching lots of ball screens. I think Sacar and Haanif at the 2 will lead to a whole lot of defensive looks where the 2-3-4 are switching everything. Next year, when Heldt's man sets the high pick and then rolls while Matt is hedging the ball screen, the weakside wing will be Cain or Hauser, a couple of 6'7 guys who can actually contest down low.
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Sam's game is still nothing like Jimmy's. Offensively, Sam isn't as assertive (at least not yet), isn't as effective on the drive or attacking the rim, isn't as good at creating his own shot, but is a better shooter, which led to his excellent efficiency. Defensively, Jimmy was stronger, quicker, and used his length better, though Sam is a better and more commanding rebounder.
Sam could become all conference, he could become All American, but I'd be floored if his game ever resembled Jimmy. That's not a bad thing, they are just different players.
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Sam's game is still nothing like Jimmy's. Offensively, Sam isn't as assertive (at least not yet), isn't as effective on the drive or attacking the rim, isn't as good at creating his own shot, but is a better shooter, which led to his excellent efficiency. Defensively, Jimmy was stronger, quicker, and used his length better, though Sam is a better and more commanding rebounder.
Sam could become all conference, he could become All American, but I'd be floored if his game ever resembled Jimmy. That's not a bad thing, they are just different players.
Don't forget what Jimmy's game was like as a sophomore.
He wasn't some amazing athlete or high flyer. Almost nobody recruited him out of high school or junior college (Joe Fulce was initially considered the better athlete and better overall recruit of the two.) Jimmy played tough defense, chased down offensive rebounds and got most of his points off putbacks. He didn't make a single three-pointer his sophomore year. But you could see the tools: he played within the offense, was a willing passer, took open shots and had good form when he did.
He also had an incredible work ethic — one that allowed him to dramatically improve nearly every aspect of his game over the next two seasons.
I see a lot of the same tools in Sam. He plays tough, knows the game, sees the court and moves well without the ball, is a willing passer, takes good shots and is one of the purest shooters I've seen at Marquette.
I'm not saying that Sam will become an NBA All-Star or future draft pick. But it is rare to see that combination of talent and performance in a freshman (or first-year player in Jimmy's case). It's all the more rare in the front court. If Sam puts in the work, I think he could develop into a very special player.
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Don't forget what Jimmy's game was like as a sophomore.
He wasn't some amazing athlete or high flyer. Almost nobody recruited him out of high school or junior college (Joe Fulce was initially considered the better athlete and better overall recruit of the two.) Jimmy played tough defense, chased down offensive rebounds and got most of his points off putbacks. He didn't make a single three-pointer his sophomore year. But you could see the tools: he played within the offense, was a willing passer, took open shots and had good form when he did.
I remember Jimmy as a sophomore. My roommate and I felt at the time that he and Wes Matthews were the two best NBA prospects on the team. The athleticism and quickness was evident then. He didn't have the physical development, but he had the frame. I'd argue Sam was better offensively in his first year, but regardless they were very different players.
I'm not saying Sam isn't a good player, but as far as style, athleticism, and quickness, he and Jimmy are not at all alike. Again, that's not a bad thing, but if you were to watch games with the players blacked out, you would never, ever confuse Sam and Jimmy.