This has been a terrible 2nd half. Between the refs and the poor shooting - not exciting at all.
This is the worst played final game since Maryland v Indiana. Terrible game to watch.
Raft said it best. If it goes OT, it'll just be a bunch of guards left playing.
It's been pretty damn unwatchable, that's for sure
I know it'll never happen because all that matters is money but if you want a clean Final Four these games should be played in basketball arenas.
Also these refs are completely changing the outcome of the game. Too many whistles. Not to mention unless you are ENTIRELY certain that the ball was tipped you cannot change another ref's out of bounds call on a ball that, in fact, was not tipped.
Quote from: Norm on April 03, 2017, 10:28:27 PM
This is the worst played final game since Maryland v Indiana. Terrible game to watch.
UCONN 53, Butler 41
Vacated...?
Poop
44 fouls, 52 free throws....ugh
The game was decided by NWG's ankle
I'll take it, bet on NC!! Vegas where's my money!!!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 03, 2017, 10:43:18 PM
The game was decided by NWG's ankle
I was texting TAMU that NWG was the best player on the floor at basically the moment he rolled the ankle. Blame me for the bad karma...
Crime does pay
Think the refs go to the locker room, call their wives and say, "Honey, did you see me on TV?"
That was awful. Let them play.
Ehh. I always find it hard to say a game was lost on either a missed rebound or an injury when that team was trailing. Not to mention Williams-Goss missed quite a few looks at the rim short. And not sure his ankle had anything to do with Meeks blocking his shot when they were down 3 with 20 seconds left. Needed to keep his dribble or kick it out. No way he was getting that shot off.
a huge play in the last minute was under the Carolina basket when the UNC player on the ground had the ball in one hand and his other hand clearly out of bounds. Moments later the refs called it a jump ball. That play hurt.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2017, 10:34:28 PM
I know it'll never happen because all that matters is money but if you want a clean Final Four these games should be played in basketball arenas.
Totally agree, but its been this way for so long now they'll probably never go back.
Probably the worst played championship game in ages, too many fouls, missed chucked threes, missed free throws(close to 50%?), turnovers, well everything. But last minute, UNC played great defense and that did it.
Good run by Zags, but came a bit short.
OK, lets get next year going with a good recruiting week for MU.
Why are UNC fans booing Mark E? He hasn't done anything to hold them accountable for the widespread academic fraud that benefited their basketball and football programs.
Wonder if the NCAA will ever take action against UNC for one of the biggest academic scandals of all time. They sure don't seem to be in a rush to do anything.
Refs (and Nantz and co) missed the play of the game at the 0:49.1 mark. Tough to be a held ball when Meeks has his hand on the end line. They found a reason to stop play on every other occasion, too bad they couldn't stop and take a look to get the biggest call of the night right. I suppose some of that is on Few and his staff but someone needs to be telling them to get to the monitor.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 03, 2017, 10:50:29 PM
Why are UNC fans booing Mark E? He hasn't done anything to hold them accountable for the widespread academic fraud that benefited their basketball and football programs.
Football was penalized
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 03, 2017, 10:50:29 PM
Why are UNC fans booing Mark E? He hasn't done anything to hold them accountable for the widespread academic fraud that benefited their basketball and football programs.
And all the other students. Don't forget that. UNC Athletics doesn't cheat; UNC offers bogus classes to all its students.
How do they pick the refs for the final game. Calls against Collins were horrible. Calls in general were pathetic. I really want to know how this selection of refs took place because two of them - one of those in particular - were beyond comprehension.
That was probably the worst basketball game I've ever watched. If it wasn't the national final I'd have turned it off at the 10:00 mark. Both teams punished by the refs, but Gonzaga losing Collins on maybe one legit foul was a killer. After how much fun last year's game was, that was a horror show. Refs should be fired on the spot. With real fire.
a lot the UNC fans at the game were ASU students in disguise. they couldn't sell out their section
Honest question: why isn't UNC buried in sanctions right now? How have they escaped major scandal scot-free?
Quote from: AZMarqfan on April 03, 2017, 10:48:25 PM
a huge play in the last minute was under the Carolina basket when the UNC player on the ground had the ball in one hand and his other hand clearly out of bounds. Moments later the refs called it a jump ball. That play hurt.
That was a HUGE missed call. UNC kept the ball and scored. Could have changed the outcome.
NWG had a great game but his "hero ball" (as Scoopers like to call it) cost Gonzaga down the stretch.
UConn Butler was a million times worse than this game. At least this one had me on the edge of my seat.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
That was probably the worst basketball game I've ever watched. If it wasn't the national final I'd have turned it off at the 10:00 mark. Both teams punished by the refs, but Gonzaga losing Collins on maybe one legit foul was a killer. After how much fun last year's game was, that was a horror show. Refs should be fired on the spot. With real fire.
All tourney long, the refs let them play. Tonight was awful from a reffing perspective.
Quote from: AZMarqfan on April 03, 2017, 10:59:28 PM
a lot the UNC fans at the game were ASU students in disguise. they couldn't sell out their section
Hard to believe given how easily they sold out their academic reputation
No Marquette sighting on One Shining Moment.
Joel Barry is tough
Congrats to UNC. Next year it will be MU.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on April 03, 2017, 11:00:39 PM
UConn Butler was a million times worse than this game. At least this one had me on the edge of my seat.
Good call. I feel like most national title games are sloppy.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 03, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
Football was penalized
Wasn't that for improper benefits one of which being a tutor doing coursework for players? Different issue.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 03, 2017, 11:12:03 PM
Congrats to UNC. Next year it will be MU.
The NCAA can get its credibility back in one word ... vacate.
Quote from: Dread Pirate Roberts on April 03, 2017, 11:13:37 PM
The NCAA can get its credibility back in one word ... vacate.
Based on the money they're rolling around in I don't think they need to get any more credibility.
Like most things, it's a business.
Quote from: Osiris on April 03, 2017, 10:52:10 PM
Refs (and Nantz and co) missed the play of the game at the 0:49.1 mark. Tough to be a held ball when Meeks has his hand on the end line. They found a reason to stop play on every other occasion, too bad they couldn't stop and take a look to get the biggest call of the night right. I suppose some of that is on Few and his staff but someone needs to be telling them to get to the monitor.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8ifitXUwAAjww6.jpg)
Don't let that championship game let you forget that MU beat #1 Villanova when we were down 17.
Will be interesting to see if tonight ends up driving any change in how the NCAA sees it's officials.
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on April 03, 2017, 11:35:59 PM
Don't let that championship game let you forget that MU beat #1 Villanova when we were down 17.
Okay?
Quote from: AZMarqfan on April 03, 2017, 10:59:28 PM
a lot the UNC fans at the game were ASU students in disguise. they couldn't sell out their section
@darrenrovell 11 minutes ago
About a quarter of the UNC student section tonight were students dressed in white shirts from other schools, mostly Arizona State.
Overzealous officiating completely zapped the energy of the NCAA championship and became the story of the game
http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-tournament-championship-refereeing-officiating-bad-2017-4
LeBron JamesVerified account @KingJames
Man I can't watch this anymore man! I would like to see the kids decide who wins the game! I mean Bruh!! Smh
DWade ✔ @DwyaneWade
Let these kids play. Put the whistles away.
(http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/58e31df477bb70a0428b5a9a-1440)
That was not a good national title game
Myron Medcalf
ESPN Staff Writer
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19072726/referees-missed-shots-poor-play-make-forgettable-national-title-game
Forget the victory and the significance of the moment for champion North Carolina and national runner-up Gonzaga because we must start with this: Monday night's national championship game -- beset by an abundance of foul calls, poor offense and a sleep-inducing rhythm -- stunk.
For everyone.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on April 03, 2017, 11:00:39 PM
UConn Butler was a million times worse than this game. At least this one had me on the edge of my seat.
Come on, don't you know that with Millenials whatever just happened is either the best or worst thing ever? Nothing that happened more than a month ago is remembered
I was at the game and, let me first say that I was grateful to be at the game and I'm glad it was at least close, but it was pretty hard to watch a national champion who shot 36% from the field, 15% from 3, & 58% at the line. It kind of felt like no one won. The 2011 game was also really bad. Hard to tell how poor the officials were from my seats, but with all the fouls it sure seemed like a ref show.
Quote from: Norm on April 03, 2017, 10:51:43 PM
Wonder if the NCAA will ever take action against UNC for one of the biggest academic scandals of all time. They sure don't seem to be in a rush to do anything.
This from an organization who completely botched the Miami investigation...
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 04, 2017, 01:42:14 AM
Come on, don't you know that with Millenials whatever just happened is either the best or worst thing ever? Nothing that happened more than a month ago is remembered
Most of the people talking about how bad this game was weren't millennials. And I'd rather be someone who gets excited one way or another about recent happenings than someone who constantly sits around and b*tches that things just ain't the way they used to be and the world has gone soft.
Quote from: Norm on April 03, 2017, 10:51:43 PM
Wonder if the NCAA will ever take action against UNC for one of the biggest academic scandals of all time. They sure don't seem to be in a rush to do anything.
The NCAA will punish UNC-Asheville or -Greensboro instead just because they are in the same state.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 03, 2017, 11:00:30 PM
That was a HUGE missed call. UNC kept the ball and scored. Could have changed the outcome.
NWG had a great game but his "hero ball" (as Scoopers like to call it) cost Gonzaga down the stretch.
I think the biggest missed call was the no call on when NWG rolled his ankle. He was being pushed by a North Carolina player, which caused him to hurt his ankle when he tried to hold his ground. After that it was on Coach Few by still using NWG as the go to player when he had a bad ankle.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on April 03, 2017, 11:00:19 PM
Honest question: why isn't UNC buried in sanctions right now? How have they escaped major scandal scot-free?
Because, frankly, UNC had a brilliant defense. The bogus classes were offered to
all students, not just athletes. Thus, they weren't an impermissible benefit for athletes and the NCAA has no jurisdiction. UNC told the NCAA, "This is between us and our accrediting agency. It's none of your business." Their accrediting agency put them on probation for one year...to absolutely no effect. Some might argue the wisdom of a well-respected university tarnishing its overall academic integrity to protect its athletics program, but so far it's hard to argue with the results.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2017, 11:09:03 PM
No Marquette sighting on One Shining Moment.
Pretty kool wit Showalter and Bumstead, doe, hey?
Perfect recap:
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/dumb-shining-moment-your-2017-ncaa-tournament-lowlight-1793980205
Quote from: Dread Pirate Roberts on April 03, 2017, 11:34:59 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8ifitXUwAAjww6.jpg)
If this were the LPGA, we could email someone and get the outcome changed.
Team fouls need to reset at the 10 minutes mark, like they did in the NIT. Maybe, we need to look at going to 6 fouls per player as well.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2017, 10:34:28 PM
I know it'll never happen because all that matters is money but if you want a clean Final Four these games should be played in basketball arenas.
I'm not following the logic here.
Quote from: bilsu on April 04, 2017, 07:21:26 AM
I think the biggest missed call was the no call on when NWG rolled his ankle. He was being pushed by a North Carolina player, which caused him to hurt his ankle when he tried to hold his ground. After that it was on Coach Few by still using NWG as the go to player when he had a bad ankle.
Few didn't have a choice. NWG had decided that he was going to be the go-to guy down the stretch no matter what. He's an excellent player and had a nice all-around game despite not shooting well, but he needed to play smarter in the last 90 seconds.
Sidenote: Meeks averaged 16 and 11 on 78% shooting in the FF but Berry was the MOP? No one who shoots 9-33 from the floor should win an individual award.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 08:18:09 AM
I'm not following the logic here.
You play 36+ games to get to a Final Four all in one type of arena (10K-19K seating capacity built to hold basketball games) and then for the 3 biggest games of the season you move it into a 60K-100K seat football stadium with the basketball court in what feels like the middle of nowhere away from the seats, scorer's table, benches, etc. with completely different site lines. You get 90 minutes to adjust to a brand new environment. In my mind it doesn't come as much of a coincidence that you will see 1 good shooting performance between 3 Final Four games in most years.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 04, 2017, 08:24:59 AM
Few didn't have a choice. NWG had decided that he was going to be the go-to guy down the stretch no matter what. He's an excellent player and had a nice all-around game despite not shooting well, but he needed to play smarter in the last 90 seconds.
Sidenote: Meeks averaged 16 and 11 on 78% shooting in the FF but Berry was the MOP? No one who shoots 9-33 from the floor should win an individual award.
That's not really what Few said in his post game interview. He said NWG was the only guy they could call a play for because he was the only one who could get a shot to fall. Seemed like Few was making that call.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 04, 2017, 08:25:08 AM
You play 36+ games to get to a Final Four all in one type of arena (10K-19K seating capacity built to hold basketball games) and then for the 3 biggest games of the season you move it into a 60K-100K seat football stadium with the basketball court in what feels like the middle of nowhere away from the seats, scorer's table, benches, etc. with completely different site lines. You get 90 minutes to adjust to a brand new environment. In my mind it doesn't come as much of a coincidence that you will see 1 good shooting performance between 3 Final Four games in most years.
Are shooting percentages significantly different in dome games v. non-dome games? That would be a fun little research project including departures from the normal O and D ratings for both teams.
I thought the flow was bad because of refs more than anything.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 08:35:40 AM
Are shooting percentages significantly different in dome games v. non-dome games? That would be a fun little research project including departures from the normal O and D ratings for both teams.
I thought the flow was bad because of refs more than anything.
Yeah I was wondering that as well. And UNC's (particularly Jackson's) shot selection in the first half didn't help their shooting numbers, nor did Gonzaga missing a bunch of bunnies (first time this season they haven't been able to play bully ball down by the rim). I feel like most Final Four games are pretty poor shooting games. Could have more to do with the size of the moment than it does the size of the arena, or could just be a myth that the games are sloppier, who knows.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 04, 2017, 08:25:58 AM
That's not really what Few said in his post game interview. He said NWG was the only guy they could call a play for because he was the only one who could get a shot to fall. Seemed like Few was making that call.
This makes sense to me. The only other players that seemed even capable of creating any offense vs UNC were Perkins and Williams. Perkins went without a fg in the second half, and Williams only took one shot (a three). NWG might have been calling his own number a lot down the stretch, but when the only other offense you have is a combined 1-4 for the entire half, kid was going to have to be the hero for the Zags to have a chance.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 04, 2017, 08:41:59 AM
Yeah I was wondering that as well. And UNC's (particularly Jackson's) shot selection in the first half didn't help their shooting numbers, nor did Gonzaga missing a bunch of bunnies (first time this season they haven't been able to play bully ball down by the rim). I feel like most Final Four games are pretty poor shooting games. Could have more to do with the size of the moment than it does the size of the arena, or could just be a myth that the games are sloppier, who knows.
It's all a matter of perspective... Hinkle was a cavern compared to their little gym back in Hickory, but the Huskers still pulled it off. Perhaps every coach should carry a tape measure to the Final Four.
Though I generally agree with pulling the FF from the stadiums, I just don't think it's possible. I'd like to go over the box office figures and see just how many sponsors are sucking up tickets to these games.... of the 76,000 "in attendance," I wouldn't be surprised if half the tickets printed had a face value of $COMP.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 04, 2017, 07:23:42 AM
Because, frankly, UNC had a brilliant defense. The bogus classes were offered to all students, not just athletes. Thus, they weren't an impermissible benefit for athletes and the NCAA has no jurisdiction. UNC told the NCAA, "This is between us and our accrediting agency. It's none of your business." Their accrediting agency put them on probation for one year...to absolutely no effect. Some might argue the wisdom of a well-respected university tarnishing its overall academic integrity to protect its athletics program, but so far it's hard to argue with the results.
I am not a lawyer, so can't say how if the defense is brilliant or not, but the fact remains that UNC still used players who were given academic credit for courses that didn't exist. Technically, every player who accepted a grade for those classes knew it was bogus and intentionally cheated. This was a massive academic fraud that benefited athletes to keep them eligible. If you look at how the NCAA has penalized other schools for academic misconduct, its an absolute joke that nothing has been done about this academic scandal.
Quote from: Norm on April 04, 2017, 10:28:53 AM
I am not a lawyer, so can't say how if the defense is brilliant or not, but the fact remains that UNC still used players who were given academic credit for courses that didn't exist. Technically, every player who accepted a grade for those classes knew it was bogus and intentionally cheated. This was a massive academic fraud that benefited athletes to keep them eligible. If you look at how the NCAA has penalized other schools for academic misconduct, its an absolute joke that nothing has been done about this academic scandal.
The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.
"Necks: How thick is thick enough?" conveniently exists in both philosophy and science majors to ensure adequate coverage.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.
Wrong.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.
I read that there were no classes. You could register for them and there was room/lecture hall associated with the class. If you were to show up at the scheduled time and place you would find that the course didn't exist. Disclaimer: I don't remember my source. I think it may have been SI, not sure though. If what I assert is true they suck and they suck as an institution. Correct me if I am wrong but I would bet dollars to donuts that sort of thing does not exist at MU or at many other institutions.
Quote from: manny31 on April 04, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
I read that there were no classes. You could register for them and there was room/lecture hall associated with the class. If you were to show up at the scheduled time and place you would find that the course didn't exist. Disclaimer: I don't remember my source. I think it may have been SI, not sure though. If what I assert is true they suck and they suck as an institution. Correct me if I am wrong but I would bet dollars to donuts that sort of thing does not exist at MU or at many other institutions.
Right. This is why the school was put on probation by the Higher Learning Commission. And while athletes were disproportionally represented in these classes, athletes did not make up a majority of students enrolled.
IMO this is why this isn't an NCAA issue.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
Right. This is why the school was put on probation by the Higher Learning Commission. And while athletes were disproportionally represented in these classes, athletes did not make up a majority of students enrolled.
IMO this is why this isn't an NCAA issue.
What benefit does a normal student get out of that arrangement? Or did word just get out that these were easy GPA boosters?
Quote from: Bocephys on April 04, 2017, 11:58:54 AM
What benefit does a normal student get out of that arrangement? Or did word just get out that these were easy GPA boosters?
I'm sure that's it.
I still don't understand the nonimpermissible benefit argument. The impermissible benefit is that the other 350 schools weren't having fake classes.
Penn State is partly to blame for the cutting out the NCAA's. In my view, their Sandusky sanctions pushback and lawsuits have made the NCAA very skittish about acting on the UNC case. The NCAA is trying to avoid being sued again.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on April 04, 2017, 12:01:15 PM
I still don't understand the nonimpermissible benefit argument. The impermissible benefit is that the other 350 schools weren't having fake classes.
Impermisable benefits are, in part, benefits that athletes receive that other students cannot receive.
So for instance, if every student gets a free laptop provided as a freshman, an athlete can receive one as well. It doesn't matter if the other 300+ schools don't provide athletes to their students.
Quote from: Benny B on April 04, 2017, 10:15:34 AM
It's all a matter of perspective... Hinkle was a cavern compared to their little gym back in Hickory, but the Huskers still pulled it off. Perhaps every coach should carry a tape measure to the Final Four.
Yeah, but they had Jimmy F***in Chitwood.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 12:43:54 PM
Impermisable benefits are, in part, benefits that athletes receive that other students cannot receive.
So for instance, if every student gets a free laptop provided as a freshman, an athlete can receive one as well. It doesn't matter if the other 300+ schools don't provide athletes to their students.
.
Ok, that makes sense. But the NCAA should still have a case on academic fraud. If not, they need to establish a new rule setting minimum standards for what counts as a class in regards to athletes staying eligible. Call it the UNC rule.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on April 04, 2017, 01:04:06 PM
.
Ok, that makes sense. But the NCAA should still have a case on academic fraud. If not, they need to establish a new rule setting minimum standards for what counts as a class in regards to athletes staying eligible. Call it the UNC rule.
So the NCAA is going to review the course descriptions of every class offered to students to make sure it qualifies as a class? The amount of resources that will take is enormous, and all this because of UNC?
How about this. Member institutions need to provide academic programs rigorously overseen by accrediting bodies. Not everything can be legislated by the NCAA. The system will never be completely fair. Sometimes negative outcomes are going to happen.
A few thoughts:
1. Given the number of plays refs review, it is astonishing that nobody thought to review the play leading to that jump ball. It was reviewable under the rules, the scrum happened right on the baseline, and in real-time I jumped out of my chair and said: "Meeks is out of bounds!" Really hard to fathom why such an important play and such an obvious review situation was ignored.
2. We probably will never again have a FF in a "regular arena." I second wades' reasons for wanting to abandon stadiums, but it simply is never gonna happen for obviou$$$$ rea$$$on$$$$. Wishing for it is like an old person wishing beer was still only 25 cents per glass - it's a nice thing to want, but it ain't gonna happen!
3. I agree the officiating was sub-par but the play in the game WAS overly physical right from the start. I think they felt early on that they had to try to clean things up so it didn't get out of hand, but the players didn't adjust to the way it was being called and then the refs had to keep calling it. I've been there as a ref myself, and it's really a no-win situation. But again, I think these 3 weren't very good, and I also agree that Collins had 2-3 really bad calls against him, which almost surely helped alter the course of the game.
4. A big issue in the UNC case is "Were athletes being actively funneled into these fake courses, sometimes even against their wishes?" A woman's basketball player and a football player sued the school and the NCAA over this; a judge ruled that there was no case against the NCAA but I haven't been able to discern if the case against the university is still out there.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/judge-dismisses-ncaa-from-lawsuit-over-north-carolinas-academic-fraud/
5. As other Scoopers have said, those classes didn't represent "extra benefits" because they were available to non-jocks, and about 50% of those who took the classes weren't athletes. So the school probably will get away with it. But it's as slimy as it gets, and UNC - once considered one of the great public institutions in this country - should be effen ashamed.
6. The idea that Roy Williams - a total control freak who knows every single thing going on in his program - was blissfully unaware that these courses even existed ... what a freakin' joke. For that lie alone, he shouldn't be allowed to win the national title! Whenever he quits coaching, however, he obviously is qualified to be a politician - even POTUS!
7. I'd have mentioned Gonzaga going 17-26 from the line, including 4-8 for NWG, an 87% shooter, but everybody knows FTs no matta.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 01:12:40 PM
So the NCAA is going to review the course descriptions of every class offered to students to make sure it qualifies as a class? The amount of resources that will take is enormous, and all this because of UNC?
How about this. Member institutions need to provide academic programs rigorously overseen by accrediting bodies. Not everything can be legislated by the NCAA. The system will never be completely fair. Sometimes negative outcomes are going to happen.
And therein lies the "beauty" of UNC's defense to the NCAA. They couched it in terms of an area that the NCAA, with good reason, is loathe to oversee.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 01:12:40 PM
So the NCAA is going to review the course descriptions of every class offered to students to make sure it qualifies as a class? The amount of resources that will take is enormous, and all this because of UNC?
How about this. Member institutions need to provide academic programs rigorously overseen by accrediting bodies. Not everything can be legislated by the NCAA. The system will never be completely fair. Sometimes negative outcomes are going to happen.
1. I don't think it has to be actively monitored for every class. Set up an audit system where audits can be triggered when evidence of maleficence arises.
2. Shame on the accreditation agency being soft. They should have been much harsher.
3. Yes, life is not fair. But we should still strive to close loopholes and level the playing field. For the future if nothing else.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 03, 2017, 10:53:27 PM
And all the other students. Don't forget that. UNC Athletics doesn't cheat; UNC offers bogus classes to all its students.
The second coming of Parson College.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2017, 01:23:55 PM
A few thoughts:
7. I'd have mentioned Gonzaga going 17-26 from the line, including 4-8 for NWG, an 87% shooter, but everybody knows FTs no matta.
Didn't NWG have a gash on his hand? Before the game they showed a photo of his shooting hand like he sliced it on something.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 04, 2017, 02:51:10 PM
Didn't NWG have a gash on his hand? Before the game they showed a photo of his shooting hand like he sliced it on something.
It was from the South Carolina game. Near the end, he went sliding across the floor trying to save a loose ball and opened up a cut on his hand in the process.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 04, 2017, 02:51:10 PM
Didn't NWG have a gash on his hand? Before the game they showed a photo of his shooting hand like he sliced it on something.
gashes no matta.
BTW, now seeing word that the Meeks-hand-OB play was not reviewable. Why? I have no idea. The two short articles I read didn't go into detail, just said it wasn't reviewable. Outrageous.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2017, 03:39:35 PM
gashes no matta.
BTW, now seeing word that the Meeks-hand-OB play was not reviewable. Why? I have no idea. The two short articles I read didn't go into detail, just said it wasn't reviewable. Outrageous.
Pretty sure the way it works is that if you have an OOB call, you can review who it went off of, but in this case there was never an OOB call, so you can't review.
Quote from: drewm88 on April 04, 2017, 03:45:05 PM
Pretty sure the way it works is that if you have an OOB call, you can review who it went off of, but in this case there was never an OOB call, so you can't review.
Yup. It was a jump ball call, not out of bounds.
Bottom line, it was a very poorly played game. Air balls, horrid shooting (even free throws), players on both teams routinely playing out of control. When self identified basketball fans allow as to how they prefer the ball they saw last night to watching guys like Lebron, Steph, etc., it blows me away.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.
Really?
Please share what special knowledge you have that allows you to speak with authority on this.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2017, 07:46:49 PM
Really?
Please share what special knowledge you have that allows you to speak with authority on this.
The same knowledge you have .
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2017, 07:46:49 PM
Really?
Please share what special knowledge you have that allows you to speak with authority on this.
He's MUFNY. He knows everything about everyone and everything, especially MU basketball player (and their families) related. Parents of players from every program in America have told him about these types of things, including Marquette and UNC.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 07:56:08 PM
The same knowledge you have .
You're just a troll. Live with that fella.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 07:56:08 PM
The same knowledge you have .
I doubt that.
When was the last time you spoke to the Provost? I am good friends with someone who served in that position, and I can promise you it would be over that person's dead body that Marquette issue a worthless degree to anyone.
It is common knowledge that one of the main beefs Buzz had with the administration was that they would not let him skirt the academic requirements as much as he wanted. Why would Buzz need to do that if all he had to do was sign the players up for joke classes.
Quote from: jsglow on April 04, 2017, 08:04:22 PM
You're just a troll. Live with that fella.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2017, 08:14:12 PM
I doubt that.
When was the last time you spoke to the Provost? I am good friends with someone who served in that position, and I can promise you it would be over that person's dead body that Marquette issue a worthless degree to anyone.
It is common knowledge that one of the main beefs Buzz had with the administration was that they would not let him skirt the academic requirements as much as he wanted. Why would Buzz need to do that if all he had to do was sign the players up for joke classes.
Face the facts all schools have the same courses UNC did. How do you think we get kids through the core of common studies? For example, MU has a course were kids essentially post responses to a very simple topic once a week, a glorified academic MU Scoop. Open to all kids and widely known and I would not be surprised if your own kids took the course . How is that any different from the African Studies course which required a two page paper at UNC? UNC obviously had an overzealous administrator take liberties and that is clearly not a good thing, and that is the core of the assertion against them. But to think that every other school in the country are puritans is naive at best. Do You think every student at Stanford Football is a rocket scientist?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 08:23:37 PM
Face the facts all schools have the same courses UNC did. How do you think we get kids through the core of common studies? For example, MU has a course were kids essentially post responses to a very simple topic once a week, a glorified academic MU Scoop. Open to all kids and widely known and I would not be surprised if your own kids took the course . How is that any different from the African Studies course which required a two page paper at UNC? UNC obviously had an overzealous administrator take liberties and that is clearly not a good thing, and that is the core of the assertion against them. But to think that every other school in the country are puritans is naive at best. Do You think every student at Stanford Football is a rocket scientist?
Yes. Lol. Hilarious that out of all the outstanding schools that make exceptions for their student athletes, you choose one of the very few that require their student athletes to get admitted into the school as a student first in order to be an athlete there.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 08:23:37 PM
Face the facts all schools have the same courses UNC did. How do you think we get kids through the core of common studies? For example, MU has a course were kids essentially post responses to a very simple topic once a week, a glorified academic MU Scoop. Open to all kids and widely known and I would not be surprised if your own kids took the course . How is that any different from the African Studies course which required a two page paper at UNC? UNC obviously had an overzealous administrator take liberties and that is clearly not a good thing, and that is the core of the assertion against them. But to think that every other school in the country are puritans is naive at best. Do You think every student at Stanford Football is a rocket scientist?
So what exactly is that course number?
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 04, 2017, 12:43:54 PM
Impermisable benefits are, in part, benefits that athletes receive that other students cannot receive.
So for instance, if every student gets a free laptop lap dance provided as a freshman, an athlete can receive one as well. It doesn't matter if the other 300+ schools don't provide athletes to their students.
So at Louisville on the hooker scandal, which occurred in a primarily athletic dorm...that skirts the rule of extra benefits by having a few academic student residents, Pitino was unjustly penalized by the NCAA? Rim jobs for everyone!
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2017, 08:28:53 PM
So what exactly is that course number?
Feel free to PM me and I will provide course number(s).
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 08:31:26 PM
Feel free to PM me and I will provide course number(s).
Why does it have to be a PM? If every school does it, it doesn't need to be a secret.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2017, 09:00:59 PM
Why does it have to be a PM? If every school does it, it doesn't need to be a secret.
He wants a different set of numbers in return.
not meaning to ruin your cred here 82, but as i was reading the comments about the ref'ing-my thoughts exactly-
" 3. I agree the officiating was sub-par but the play in the game WAS overly physical right from the start. I think they felt early on that they had to try to clean things up so it didn't get out of hand, but the players didn't adjust to the way it was being called and then the refs had to keep calling it. I've been there as a ref myself, and it's really a no-win situation. But again, I think these 3 weren't very good, and I also agree that Collins had 2-3 really bad calls against him, which almost surely helped alter the course of the game."
what what what? something about great minds, heyn'a? ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program ;D
Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2017, 09:28:08 PM
not meaning to ruin your cred here 82, but as i was reading the comments about the ref'ing-my thoughts exactly-
" 3. I agree the officiating was sub-par but the play in the game WAS overly physical right from the start. I think they felt early on that they had to try to clean things up so it didn't get out of hand, but the players didn't adjust to the way it was being called and then the refs had to keep calling it. I've been there as a ref myself, and it's really a no-win situation. But again, I think these 3 weren't very good, and I also agree that Collins had 2-3 really bad calls against him, which almost surely helped alter the course of the game."
what what what? something about great minds, heyn'a? ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program ;D
You agree with me? Then ... uh ... never mind!
Seriously, rocket, we've agreed on some things in the past. I can't name any, but I'm sure we have!
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 08:31:26 PM
Feel free to PM me and I will provide course number(s).
I PMed you. Excited to find out the course number.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2017, 09:44:28 PM
You agree with me? Then ... uh ... never mind!
Seriously, rocket, we've agreed on some things in the past. I can't name any, but I'm sure we have!
well, not only did i agree with you, but i believe it was an excellent observation-let's go on the premise that these were really the "final four" of refs, the creme de la creme, the cat's arse's of officials, the sprinkles on the sundae, the...well, ya'll get my...anyway, their(the refs) game plan was to maintain order and set their foot(s) down, establish who's da boss. the players figured-this is it. we're gonna give it all we got-the refs surely won't be calling it that close for the WHOLE game... kinda like an NBA final where they might as well have it in a cage.
here's a thought-maybe the refs should have a 4th guy/moderator on the side, pointing out some things, grounding the 3 out on the floor as i'm sure they get caught up in all the hysteria as well. during time outs, the 4th person could act as a "coach" if you will, keeping the refs from allowing stuff to get out of hand yet keep them from becoming "the game"
the refs got all caught up in plan "A"-to be a ref and never really had a plan "B" when to take their collective feet off the necks of the players...(loved the comment earlier by stillawarrior-"honey did ya see me on tv? loved it! ) as the players didn't stray from their game plan-to go balls out for 40 minutes, the refs were caught looking at each other like...you gonna call that one, i got the last one, your turn...
moral of the story-the NCAA thought they had picked out the best of the best but they turned out to be one and dones for the worst possible game. is ref'ing the final 4 easy? hell no! but with all the effing $$ they have, surely they can find a team of 3(they are out there) who know what it takes to find a balance in the most important game of the season.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2017, 08:30:02 PM
So at Louisville on the hooker scandal, which occurred in a primarily athletic dorm...that skirts the rule of extra benefits by having a few academic student residents, Pitino was unjustly penalized by the NCAA? Rim jobs for everyone!
That's a recruiting violation. Completely different set of rules. The NCAA has
very specific rules outlining what you can give to a recruit during a campus visit. Hookers aren't allowed -- even if they're provided to all students. The NCAA does not have rules regarding the content of classes.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 05, 2017, 07:44:48 AM
The NCAA does not have rules regarding the content of classes.
Would that then make all the NCAA Rules on Grades Meaningless.
Quote from: mupanther on April 04, 2017, 08:11:33 AM
Team fouls need to reset at the 10 minutes mark, like they did in the NIT. Maybe, we need to look at going to 6 fouls per player as well.
The Big East went to 6 fouls for Big East games a few seasons (89-90, 90-91 & 91-92), and the games became overly physical messes. I don't think we want that rule.
To me the biggest cause for the increase of fouls over the years is the continued increase of attempting to draw charges. That forcing of a block or charge foul inflates the foul totals. I'm not saying its bad strategy or something, but in the 70's and 80's was when it really got going. In the old days guys were funneled to a shot blocker on drives who would attempt to block the shot. I think drawing charges has the unfortunate benefit of being effective, so I don't see it going away any time soon.
I think the only thing that get's rid of those type of charging calls is to not allow any secondary defender to pick up a charge. Essentially force the defender to have to make a play on the ball. And if you are standing there perfectly still, and an offensive player runs into you, the foul is automatically on the defense.
It would be interesting to see what that would look like. Maybe its one of those things that the NIT could try?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 04, 2017, 09:48:46 PM
I PMed you. Excited to find out the course number.
Thanks, TAMU, for passing the info on to me.
I was not familiar with one of the courses, but the other, HEAL 1025, Culture and Health, I do know about, because glow jr. did indeed take that course.
He chose it because it met the Core Curriculum requirement for a Diverse Cultures class, and he thought it may have some relevance to his eventual career (which it actually did). While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well.
Oh, and by sheer coincidence, guess who else was in the same section of HEAL 10285 that glow jr. was in?
1. The son of the Provost I mentioned before, who again, takes academic standards very seriously, and butted heads on more than one occasion with those who sought to lower them (or lower them for certain groups)
2. The Dean of the Nursing School's kid, who was an engineering major.
Yes, my kid got an A. It is also quite possible that the percentage of kids who got A's in this class was higher that the percentage who got A's in freshman Engineering calculus, but that doesn't mean it was a worthless, throw-away basketweaving class.
Even if it was, the point is that UNC was offering a
degree in basketweaving, and a very high percentage of those getting basketweaving degrees were athletes.
Marquette does not do that, and for MUFNY to imply that it does, but is just better at hiding it, is an insult to the school, the athletics program, and mostly, to its degree-holders.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 05, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
Thanks, TAMU, for passing the info on to me.
I was not familiar with one of the courses, but the other, HEAL 1025, Culture and Health, I do know about, because glow jr. did indeed take that course.
He chose it because it met the Core Curriculum requirement for a Diverse Cultures class, and he thought it may have some relevance to his eventual career (which it actually did). While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well.
Oh, and by sheer coincidence, guess who else was in the same section of HEAL 10285 that glow jr. was in?
1. The son of the Provost I mentioned before, who again, takes academic standards very seriously, and butted heads on more than one occasion with those who sought to lower them (or lower them for certain groups)
2. The Dean of the Nursing School's kid, who was an engineering major.
Yes, my kid got an A. It is also quite possible that the percentage of kids who got A's in this class was higher that the percentage who got A's in freshman Engineering calculus, but that doesn't mean it was a worthless, throw-away basketweaving class.
Even if it was, the point is that UNC was offering a degree in basketweaving, and a very high percentage of those getting basketweaving degrees were athletes.
Marquette does not do that, and for MUFNY to imply that it does, but is just better at hiding it, is an insult to the school, the athletics program, and mostly, to its degree-holders.
No offense, chick, but some of us would really appreciate it if you could leave your "facts" and "knowledge" and actual "experiences" at the door. This is a place of innuendos and vague and unsupported allegations. And some of us would like to keep it that way.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 05, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well.
Well, it
was a good class, until Wojo started teaching it and demotivated all the students
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 05, 2017, 09:14:16 AM
No offense, chick, but some of us would really appreciate it if you could leave your "facts" and "knowledge" and actual "experiences" at the door. This is a place of innuendos and vague and unsupported allegations. And some of us would like to keep it that way.
My bad.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/c0d1b556523dd18e65eea1c6392f5ce1/tenor.gif)
Quote from: warriorchick on April 05, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
Thanks, TAMU, for passing the info on to me.
I was not familiar with one of the courses, but the other, HEAL 1025, Culture and Health, I do know about, because glow jr. did indeed take that course.
He chose it because it met the Core Curriculum requirement for a Diverse Cultures class, and he thought it may have some relevance to his eventual career (which it actually did). While it is not the toughest course he took at Marquette (hello, Accounting), I can assure you that there were real lectures, real papers, and real tests. If I recall correctly, there was required community service as well.
Oh, and by sheer coincidence, guess who else was in the same section of HEAL 10285 that glow jr. was in?
1. The son of the Provost I mentioned before, who again, takes academic standards very seriously, and butted heads on more than one occasion with those who sought to lower them (or lower them for certain groups)
2. The Dean of the Nursing School's kid, who was an engineering major.
Yes, my kid got an A. It is also quite possible that the percentage of kids who got A's in this class was higher that the percentage who got A's in freshman Engineering calculus, but that doesn't mean it was a worthless, throw-away basketweaving class.
Even if it was, the point is that UNC was offering a degree in basketweaving, and a very high percentage of those getting basketweaving degrees were athletes.
Marquette does not do that, and for MUFNY to imply that it does, but is just better at hiding it, is an insult to the school, the athletics program, and mostly, to its degree-holders.
Understand your point but what is the point in mentioning your son got an A? Plz leave those posts for Facebook.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 05, 2017, 09:32:50 AM
Understand your point but what is the point in mentioning your son got an A? Plz leave those posts for Facebook.
Because Fischer and JJJ got C's, and her son is a better basketball player than those 2 as well, so if Wojo would've been smart we would've been better off both on and off the court with chick's son than we were with JJJ and Fischer on the roster.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 04, 2017, 07:23:42 AM
Because, frankly, UNC had a brilliant defense. The bogus classes were offered to all students, not just athletes. Thus, they weren't an impermissible benefit for athletes and the NCAA has no jurisdiction. UNC told the NCAA, "This is between us and our accrediting agency. It's none of your business." Their accrediting agency put them on probation for one year...to absolutely no effect. Some might argue the wisdom of a well-respected university tarnishing its overall academic integrity to protect its athletics program, but so far it's hard to argue with the results.
Fortunately UNC did a bit more than that and should be facing discipline. Apparently academic counselors in the athletic department also enrolled at risk student-athletes in these programs after the enrollment deadline had passed thus making it an extra benefit.
Mary Willingham's affidavit is signed and under oath under penalty of perjury. Check this part out:
"I have also reviewed data that is consistent with my experience. During the last decade at UNC, where I have obtained permission from the institutional review board to collect data for research purposes, the majority of our football and basketball players have entered the institution woefully underprepared for the classroom.
At UNC, we routinely tested for learning disabilities any athlete who attended a 2nd summer school session before the first year. Of the 182 athletes screened between 2005 and 2012, a great majority (85%) come from the profit sports, although several teams are represented in the group. About 60% (110) of these athletes had reading scores below the 50% range—constituting 4th-8th grade reading levels. More than a dozen, 8-10%, were functionally illiterate, and 39% were found to be learning disabled and/or have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."The third NOA goes hard at the athletic department, contending that athletics personnel had the ability to "manage material aspects" of the paper classes, that athletes were enrolled "at a disproportionately higher rate," that academic counselors in the athletic department enrolled athletes after the enrollment deadline had passed and that getting jocks into these classes was in and of itself an extra benefit.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 05, 2017, 09:34:49 AM
Because Fischer and JJJ got C's, and her son is a better basketball player than those 2 as well, so if Wojo would've been smart we would've been better off both on and off the court with chick's son than we were with JJJ and Fischer on the roster.
If Fishy and Trey-J suddenly morphed into marginally athletic 5'5" guys whose career point total in organized basketball was 2, I would agree that glow jr. has the edge.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 05, 2017, 09:36:27 AM
Fortunately UNC did a bit more than that and should be facing discipline. Apparently academic counselors in the athletic department also enrolled at risk student-athletes in these programs after the enrollment deadline had passed thus making it an extra benefit.
Mary Willingham's affidavit is signed and under oath under penalty of perjury. Check this part out:
"I have also reviewed data that is consistent with my experience. During the last decade at UNC, where I have obtained permission from the institutional review board to collect data for research purposes, the majority of our football and basketball players have entered the institution woefully underprepared for the classroom. At UNC, we routinely tested for learning disabilities any athlete who attended a 2nd summer school session before the first year. Of the 182 athletes screened between 2005 and 2012, a great majority (85%) come from the profit sports, although several teams are represented in the group. About 60% (110) of these athletes had reading scores below the 50% range—constituting 4th-8th grade reading levels. More than a dozen, 8-10%, were functionally illiterate, and 39% were found to be learning disabled and/or have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."
The third NOA goes hard at the athletic department, contending that athletics personnel had the ability to "manage material aspects" of the paper classes, that athletes were enrolled "at a disproportionately higher rate," that academic counselors in the athletic department enrolled athletes after the enrollment deadline had passed and that getting jocks into these classes was in and of itself an extra benefit.
Please don't misunderstand my posts on this topic. I'm not supporting UNC, and I'm generally aware. There's a good bit of sarcasm intended in my posts.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 05, 2017, 07:44:48 AM
That's a recruiting violation. Completely different set of rules. The NCAA has very specific rules outlining what you can give to a recruit during a campus visit. Hookers aren't allowed -- even if they're provided to all students. The NCAA does not have rules regarding the content of classes.
Maybe I misrepresented the teachers involved with a slang term. Louisville aptly named this a Modern Urban Dance seminar, that was available to all current and prospective students to provide a feel for life at UofL. A buffet spread was available after at Porcini's.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 05, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
Maybe I misrepresented the teachers involved with a slang term. Louisville aptly named this a Modern Urban Dance seminar, that was available to all current and prospective students to provide a feel for life at UofL. A buffet spread was available after at Porcini's.
Buffet was after closing I assume
did anyone here take that 2 credit opera class at MU? it was in marquette hall, a big lecture hall. originally he(i forget his name) gave everyone who showed up for all the classes an "A". but after word got around, changed that to showing up most of the time a "B" and if ya wrote a paper and showed up, an "A". i don't remember seeing any athletes in the class unless they were being punished :D
man! sitting thru some of those classes, listening to verdi and wagner made many a grown man cry for mercy
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 04, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
The classes existed. They were very easy classes. All school have the same thing. MU does a better job of hiding these type of classes in the various majors so they seem more legit.
History of Jazz, baby! top 5 class at MU
When we were taking our daughter college-shopping about 12 years ago, one of her possibilities was Grinnell, a perennially highly ranked school in Iowa. IIRC, they had a course all about Batman.
Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2017, 03:23:32 PM
When we were taking our daughter college-shopping about 12 years ago, one of her possibilities was Grinnell, a perennially highly ranked school in Iowa. IIRC, they had a course all about Batman.
But could you get a B.A. in Batman Studies?
Quote from: warriorchick on April 05, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
But could you get a B.A. in Batman Studies?
Only at DC University.
Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2017, 03:23:32 PM
When we were taking our daughter college-shopping about 12 years ago, one of her possibilities was Grinnell, a perennially highly ranked school in Iowa. IIRC, they had a course all about Batman.
I've taken courses just on Tolkien and just on CS Lewis before. Batman seems like a logical progression from that.
I just pray that I don't live to see courses on Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 03:45:38 PM
I've taken courses just on Tolkien and just on CS Lewis before. Batman seems like a logical progression from that.
I just pray that I don't live to see courses on Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray.
50's would be cool with a lab and/or a "hands on" ey...n'a? pass fail only ;D
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 03:45:38 PM
I've taken courses just on Tolkien and just on CS Lewis before. Batman seems like a logical progression from that.
I just pray that I don't live to see courses on Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray.
Just because it's a class on a pop culture subject doesn't mean that it can't be a tough class.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 05, 2017, 04:25:16 PM
Just because it's a class on a pop culture subject doesn't mean that it can't be a tough class.
Oh I absolutely agree. I was just taking a shot at two books I personally believe to be without literary value.
Trumpmwould not approve:
https://twitter.com/17savvy/status/849084600827686913
Quote from: Newsdrms on April 05, 2017, 06:37:39 PM
Trumpmwould not approve:
https://twitter.com/17savvy/status/849084600827686913
Careful! Glow jr. took the "History of the Musical" at Marquette and it wasn't nearly as easy as he thought.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 05, 2017, 06:43:10 PM
Careful! Glow jr. took the "History of the Musical" at Marquette and it wasn't nearly as easy as he thought.
Didn't get the Trump joke? Not about easy class, is about Pence incident when he went to the show.
As said, these things even themselves out.
https://twitter.com/abcnews4dean/status/849109824893849601/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fthecomeback.com%2Fncaa%2Fgonzaga-north-carolina-officiating-mistakes-meeks-out-of-bounds-fouls-video.html
https://twitter.com/barstooltweetss/status/849090710280261636?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fthecomeback.com%2Fncaa%2Fgonzaga-north-carolina-officiating-mistakes-meeks-out-of-bounds-fouls-video.html
Quote from: wadesworld on April 07, 2017, 09:29:07 PM
As said, these things even themselves out.
https://twitter.com/abcnews4dean/status/849109824893849601/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fthecomeback.com%2Fncaa%2Fgonzaga-north-carolina-officiating-mistakes-meeks-out-of-bounds-fouls-video.html
https://twitter.com/barstooltweetss/status/849090710280261636?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fthecomeback.com%2Fncaa%2Fgonzaga-north-carolina-officiating-mistakes-meeks-out-of-bounds-fouls-video.html
First one, ball is out of his hand maybe? Tough to tell with a still shot. If it is out of his hand before he stepped, it is ok.
Second one, they fouled him before he walked, in my opinion.
Quote from: 4or5yearstojudge on April 07, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
First one, ball is out of his hand maybe? Tough to tell with a still shot. If it is out of his hand before he stepped, it is ok.
Second one, they fouled him before he walked, in my opinion.
For the first you could say the same of Meeks. Certainly looks like he's touching the ball when his hand is touching the floor out of bounds, but it's possible he's not touching it.
For the second I don't see it at all. Karnowski initiates 100% of the contact just like he did all season. The only contact I see in there that isn't Karnowski going right into Meeks's chest is the left arm of Hicks at the very end, after 6 or so steps without Karnowski dribbling.
I think we should call this all in and have the game played over on Monday.
Quote from: Newsdrms on April 05, 2017, 06:37:39 PM
Trumpmwould not approve:
https://twitter.com/17savvy/status/849084600827686913
They'll probably schedule this during the next time Marquette plays number one and some poor suckers will skip the game for Hamilton...