From what I read SC is a great defensive team period. Steals the ball, defends against the 3 and keeps overall scoring low.
There offense, however, well to put it bluntly sucks. Ranked 149 by Pomeroy.
Best player in scoring and rebounds is Sindarius Thornwell Height 6-5 and Weight 211 lbs.
Stats:
2016-17 Season
PPG RPG APG
21.0 7.2 2.8
They also have a 6' 9" Sophmore and a 6' 10" and a 6'9" Freshman for bigs. Everyone else is 6'6" and under. Looks like most of the production is from the starting 5.
Please add additional background since we are all very interested.
I think if we protect the ball, play reasonable defense and we pass well we have a great chance to put Frank's team away.
Their bigs foul a lot
Teams that do a good job of running us off the 3 line tend to hurt us. We'll need to move the ball well and move our bodies well to find openings and open men - no secret there.
Vandy went into their place and beat them. They have two very close wins over Georgia. And that's all I know about them right now! Nuthin'!!
Oh wait ... I also know we're gonna beat 'em silly.
South Carolina Beat Michigan by 16 & Syracuse by 14 back in Nov, Lost to Seton Hall by 3 in Dec, beat Georgia by 6 and by 2. lost to Vanderbilt by 9. Lost 4 of last 6 games. If MU plays well, shoots 50% or better from 3, shoots 80% from stripe, MU Wins.
Quote from: murphmurphy on March 13, 2017, 03:45:08 AM
South Carolina Beat Michigan by 16 & Syracuse by 14 back in Nov, Lost to Seton Hall by 3 in Dec, beat Georgia by 6 and by 2. lost to Vanderbilt by 9. Lost 4 of last 6 games. If MU plays well, shoots 50% or better from 3, shoots 80% from stripe, MU Wins.
Ah, the good old basketball transitive property.
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 12, 2017, 10:05:54 PM
Their bigs foul a lot
if the refs don't call this game like an NBA play-off game, then we should be ok. like a box of chocolates?
Haven't read a ton but see they are pretty good at turning teams over. Do they press often?
This is one of these contrast in style games that can be so hard to predict. We could lose by a dozen...we could win by a dozen...really it is just a toss up.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2579
Statistics. Not a great shooting team. Not very balanced scoring. They butter their bread on defense. A number of small guards. Most of their scoring seems to come from 6'4-6'6 wings. Purely from a height perspective, this isn't a terrible match up for MU. I don't know if MU is going to be able to stick with the 3 midget back court. Sure hope that either (A) JjJ is working his butt off in practice this week or (B) HC has cleared his head.
The minutes and points distribution for SC tells me that they rotate a bunch of their small guards through to pressure the ballhandlers. The two bigs are young and skinny. But the team defends like crazy and is very physical and aggressive. MU is going to have to cowboy up.
Finally, there are no easy tournament games. To paraphrase Yoda, there is no try. Only do.
SC does concern me for a matchup.. Their computer numbers (KenPom) are probably closest to Providence - and we know how well those games went. SCs defense is 30 spots better than PC, but their offense is 41 sports worse than PC.
Limit turnovers, go up strong for rebounds, and have a decent shooting game and Marquette has a good chance.
Friend of mine who's seen them a lot this year says on offense they have a "serious case of hero ball." The numbers bear that out.
So, the keys to a win appear to be 1) focus on shutting down Thornwell, 2) protect the ball, and 3) generate good ball movement to open up space on the floor for clear looks.
Actually, the best thing for us may have been playing Seton Hall in the BE tourney. Got that clunker out of the way and maybe we can refocus on our ball movement. By the sound of things, SC has a similar team.
Bold prediction, Markus and Rowsey don't play great but Haanif and JJJ carry the team in this one.
The last couple of years, SC faded badly in the second half before hanging on to get a bid out of the SEC. They don't come into this game hot. Now, which team shows up from MKE? The squad that bombed Creighton and Xavier, or the guys who hit too big a stage at MSG.
And, that's a lot of abbreviations, BTW.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
Actually, the best thing for us may have been playing Seton Hall in the BE tourney. Got that clunker out of the way and maybe we can refocus on our ball movement.
Bold prediction, Markus and Rowsey don't play great but Haanif and JJJ carry the team in this one.
Your prediction may or may not be right, but one thing is certain: We need Markus and Rowsey to avoid the live-ball turnovers that sometimes plague them, especially Markus. Kid, you ain't 17 no more!
Quote from: MU82 on March 13, 2017, 09:48:35 AM
Your prediction may or may not be right.
Really taking a hard stance on that one, eh?
Keys:
1. Don't spend a lot of time on Defense, it wastes energy when you could be scoring.
2. Shoot a lot of 3s and make 50%+ of them.
I went over to the SC forum just to take a peek and I'm pretty sure 3/4 of those people posting there have never watched a basketball game in their life.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2017, 10:07:59 AM
I went over to the SC forum just to take a peek and I'm pretty sure 3/4 of those people posting there have never watched a basketball game in their life.
I'd suspect it's pretty much NASCAR, football and Ow My Balls 24/7.
The fact that they pressure the guards scares the heck out of me. Offense isn't difficult to generate when you're giving up steals and breakaway layups. We have shown to be very vulnerable to this type of defense. I'm extremely concerned about how Markus deals with this both the tournament jitters and the pressure. So much so that I'd seriously consider playing a lot for Katin to help Rowsey bring up the ball and reduce Markus's first half minutes using him more as a shooting guard off the ball. Once we do get the ball to the half court we should establish Fish and Heldt where we should have a big advantage. If we can establish that THEN have the centers look to pass back out for open 3s. That is how we get the 3s working. BUT we've got to get it up the court first.
Quote from: murphmurphy on March 13, 2017, 03:45:08 AM
If MU plays well, shoots 50% or better from 3, shoots 80% from stripe, MU Wins.
#FTsNoMatta
Let Treadwell get his
And bomb away from deep
*Thornwell
I got the Vikes bust on my mind
Fouls will play an interesting role in this one. On one hand, starting forward Chris Silva has had 4 or more fouls in 19 of the last 24 games. Tons of foul outs during that stretch. On the other hand, Sindarius Thornwell has to have one of the highest FTR's in the country. He has attempted double digit free throws in 9 games out of the 26 he's appeared in. Ridiculous.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 13, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
On the other hand, Sindarius Thornwell has to have one of the highest FTR's in the country. He has attempted double digit free throws in 9 games out of the 26 he's appeared in. Ridiculous.
Good thing FTs no matta!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 13, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
Fouls will play an interesting role in this one. On one hand, starting forward Chris Silva has had 4 or more fouls in 19 of the last 24 games. Tons of foul outs during that stretch. On the other hand, Sindarius Thornwell has to have one of the highest FTR's in the country. He has attempted double digit free throws in 9 games out of the 26 he's appeared in. Ridiculous.
It'll be interesting to see how the refs handle things. Is Thornwell that good at drawing fouls, or were SEC refs generous with him as SC's only real star? Will Rowsey be able to draw a "Rowsey" on their defenders, or will the refs see it as him jumping into contact?
And off topic...What the holy F**k happened in the South Carolina/Alabama game? Thornwell got to the line THIRTY-THREE times? Four overtimes or not, that's ridiculous.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on March 13, 2017, 09:21:09 AM
Friend of mine who's seen them a lot this year says on offense they have a "serious case of hero ball." The numbers bear that out.
So, the keys to a win appear to be 1) focus on shutting down Thornwell, 2) protect the ball, and 3) generate good ball movement to open up space on the floor for clear looks.
Gives me bad flashbacks to Michael Young's 2H in MSG
Saw on their board that Rowsey scored 30 on them when at Asheville. Wouldn't hate a repeat of that. We are due a Jean Felix performance.
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 13, 2017, 01:57:39 PM
We are due a Jean Felix performance.
Would think the equivalent would be HC going off.
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 13, 2017, 01:57:39 PM
Saw on their board that Rowsey scored 30 on them when at Asheville. Wouldn't hate a repeat of that. We are due a Jean Felix performance.
The only equivalent would be if someone like Cheatham went off, or a better example would be if Jon Harris came back and had 7 threes. Jean Felix was so improbable because he averaged only about 5 per game, and was strictly in there for defensive and rebounding purposes.
What is forgotten about that game is that Novak had a wide open look to tie the game and missed it long. Guy never missed big shots, but he missed that one.
Just now on ESPNu dino gaudio and andy katz picked SC over mu
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 13, 2017, 04:19:03 PM
Just now on ESPNu dino gaudio and andy katz picked SC over mu
Dont trust ESPN when it comes to picking Big East teams at all. Not saying they're way off base but I take it with a grain of salt if its ESPN coverage.
Remember, this is the same network that replayed requiem for the Big East as we were getting 7 bids.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2017, 04:22:14 PM
Dont trust ESPN when it comes to picking Big East teams at all.
All 4 of the analysts picked SC that are on right now i just put those 2 because those were the 2 more popular guys
Quote from: MU82 on March 13, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
Good thing FTs no matta!
FT% no matta. FTAs definitely matta.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 13, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
Fouls will play an interesting role in this one. On one hand, starting forward Chris Silva has had 4 or more fouls in 19 of the last 24 games. Tons of foul outs during that stretch. On the other hand, Sindarius Thornwell has to have one of the highest FTR's in the country. He has attempted double digit free throws in 9 games out of the 26 he's appeared in. Ridiculous.
What kind of defense do they primarily play? Man to man, zone or a mix of the two.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 13, 2017, 10:53:34 AM
The fact that they pressure the guards scares the heck out of me. Offense isn't difficult to generate when you're giving up steals and breakaway layups. We have shown to be very vulnerable to this type of defense. I'm extremely concerned about how Markus deals with this both the tournament jitters and the pressure. So much so that I'd seriously consider playing a lot for Katin to help Rowsey bring up the ball and reduce Markus's first half minutes using him more as a shooting guard off the ball. Once we do get the ball to the half court we should establish Fish and Heldt where we should have a big advantage. If we can establish that THEN have the centers look to pass back out for open 3s. That is how we get the 3s working. BUT we've got to get it up the court first.
I really can't see Markus getting tournament jitters, I'd be shocked to see that happen. Poise is a big part of his game. That doesn't mean that he plays perfect against the press, just that he doesn't get rattled, even if he turns it over.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 13, 2017, 04:46:35 PM
FT% no matta. FTAs definitely matta.
Oh, so we can let him have FTs, just no FTAs. Got it!
I can never keep track of what mattas or not.
The final score ... that still mattas, right?
Quote from: MU82 on March 13, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
Oh, so we can let him have FTs, just no FTAs. Got it!
I can never keep track of what mattas or not.
The final score ... that still mattas, right?
FTs will be a huge part of this game..Im excited for the game
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
Actually, the best thing for us may have been playing Seton Hall in the BE tourney. Got that clunker out of the way and maybe we can refocus on our ball movement. By the sound of things, SC has a similar team.
Bold prediction, Markus and Rowsey don't play great but Haanif and JJJ carry the team in this one.
Reinhardt the one with actual NCAA tournament experience, so he is the most likely one.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 13, 2017, 05:58:24 PM
What kind of defense do they primarily play? Man to man, zone or a mix of the two.
High pressure man to man. Expect a lot of press.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 13, 2017, 07:28:22 PM
High pressure man to man. Expect a lot of press.
I don't mind that at all. Sure, it will lead to a few turnovers, but will also lead to some offensive opportunities we can exploit, and with Reinhardt to help bring it up, we're pretty well set to deal with that kind of pressure.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2017, 10:04:21 AM
Keys:
1. Don't spend a lot of time on Defense, it wastes energy when you could be scoring.
2. Shoot a lot of 3s and make 50%+ of them.
3. Score more points than them.
I would have Reinhardt be the primary ball handler against that press. Break that press and up the tempo and I feel good. That isn't the type of defense that has beaten us this year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 13, 2017, 07:55:06 PM
I don't mind that at all. Sure, it will lead to a few turnovers, but will also lead to some offensive opportunities we can exploit, and with Reinhardt to help bring it up, we're pretty well set to deal with that kind of pressure.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on March 13, 2017, 07:57:52 PM
I would have Reinhardt be the primary ball handler against that press. Break that press and up the tempo and I feel good. That isn't the type of defense that has beaten us this year.
What worries me is the first 5 minutes of play. I'd be surprised if Katin starts (given Sr. Day and last 5/6 games) and those 5 minutes could set a tone that could be hard for us to reverse. Do you bring Sam up the middle (please not the side), Duane gets the handle, or bring Matt up?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 13, 2017, 07:28:22 PM
High pressure man to man. Expect a lot of press.
This does not bode well for MU as it relates to Rowsey and Howard. Both struggle with intense on-ball defense/press. Katin will be best option. I don't see MU being able to make SC "pay" for pressing. Rarely did we go with an aggressive style against teams that pressed us - it was instead a very methodical and conservative approach, which I agree with given our offensive prowess in the half court.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on March 13, 2017, 07:57:52 PM
That isn't the type of defense that has beaten us this year.
Not so sure about that. We didn't face teams that press full time but when teams did employee it @ St Johns when they built the lead, GT and SH @ MU 2nd half closing the gap we were VERY UNSTEADY against it. Neither Howard or Rowsey have great handles and their size makes it hard to see over the press. MU does not play well against teams that use tight man to man. They need space to get off their shots. They also aren't real strong with the ball, Katin probably being the lone exception.
Quote from: Tower913 on March 13, 2017, 10:15:13 PM
This does not bode well for MU as it relates to Rowsey and Howard. Both struggle with intense on-ball defense/press. Katin will be best option. I don't see MU being able to make SC "pay" for pressing. Rarely did we go with an aggressive style against teams that pressed us - it was instead a very methodical and conservative approach, which I agree with given our offensive prowess in the half court.
We don't make teams pay for pressing us. This is true. But we are actually very good against the press. With as many ball handlers as we have, very few presses have actually been able to turn us over. It does slow down our offense and make us start the play a lot later in the shot clock, but our press break isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
Quote from: MU82 on March 13, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
Oh, so we can let him have FTs, just no FTAs. Got it!
I can never keep track of what mattas or not.
The final score ... that still mattas, right?
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/113/0/6246518/il_570xN.855711144_ti6k.jpg)
Quote from: MU82 on March 13, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
Oh, so we can let him have FTs, just no FTAs. Got it!
I can never keep track of what mattas or not.
The final score ... that still mattas, right?
Yep, every point is added to our Total no matta it's Source
This game is going to be similar to our games with Seton Hall except SC does not have an Angel Delgado type ( not many do) . I believe if we are efficient with our possessions we can win. Take the Big East philosophy of every possession at battle into the tournament and we will be fine.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 15, 2017, 06:32:02 PM
This game is going to be similar to our games with Seton Hall except SC does not have an Angel Delgado type ( not many do) . I believe if we are efficient with our possessions we can win. Take the Big East philosophy of every possession at battle into the tournament and we will be fine.
Yea... cause no other teams or conferences have that mindset...