MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: RJax55 on March 08, 2017, 01:01:40 AM

Title: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: RJax55 on March 08, 2017, 01:01:40 AM
It has been 20 years now since Deane & Co. won the CUSA tournament title with a 4-day blitz in St. Louis. This was MU's last conference tournament title.

Given the quality of program that MU has had during most of the past 20 years, it is hard to believe that we have only played in one conference title game since (A loss in '02 vs. Cincy, Wade's first year). Frankly, with the talent, success and seeds we have had, one can a make a very strong argument that no program has underachieved more in their conference tourney during this time-frame than MU.

Crean had one finals trip in CUSA ('02) and reached the semi-finals once in the Big East. The furthest Buzz went was a trip to the semi-finals in '10. Amazingly, Buzz had more NCAA tourney wins (8) than BEAST conference tourney wins (5) during his MU tenure.

Now, I know that conference tournament play has little bearing on tourney success. MU is just one example of that point. But, it would be cool to see this team play in the tournament final for no other reason than it has been so long (and never in the Big East). And, I have to think that MU is due here to make a run. 20 years is a long time.




Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 06:29:36 AM
Ceiling is semifinals this year.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: warriorchick on March 08, 2017, 06:49:20 AM
You are just mad that the women's team is showing up the guys.  :-[
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: tower912 on March 08, 2017, 07:00:07 AM
Beating Villanova on a neutral court?
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 08, 2017, 07:31:22 AM
Quote from: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 06:29:36 AM
Ceiling is semifinals this year.

Disagree. We have the capability of beating Nova. We've shown it already. I wouldn't say its likely (not even close) but certainly possible.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 08, 2017, 08:32:04 AM
Quote from: warriorchick on March 08, 2017, 06:49:20 AM
You are just mad that the women's team is showing up the guys.  :-[

It's really hard for the guys to break that glass ceiling you know.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: fjm on March 08, 2017, 08:34:37 AM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 08, 2017, 07:31:22 AM
Disagree. We have the capability of beating Nova. We've shown it already. I wouldn't say its likely (not even close) but certainly possible.

If we were on the bottom of the Bracket we would have a decent road to the championship game.
I think IF we make it to nova, we have a 20% chance of beating them.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Clam Crowder on March 08, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
If we beat Hall I am happy, If we beat Nova I am thrilled, if we win the Big East ship I know we lose in the first round of the NCAA's.

I honestly would be quite pleased with just a win over Hall and a good showing vs Nova. Hall makes as locked up as possible, a win over Nova just may push us up a seed.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: naginiF on March 08, 2017, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: fjm on March 08, 2017, 08:34:37 AM
If we were on the bottom of the Bracket we would have a decent road to the championship game.
I think IF we make it to nova, we have a 20% chance of beating them.
You should be an odds maker.....this site gives us ~17% chance on getting to the championship game which is lower than our chance of beating Nova because of the 38% chance SH takes us out.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/conference-tournaments/big-east-bracket/ (https://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/conference-tournaments/big-east-bracket/)
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: RideMyBuycks on March 08, 2017, 09:12:49 AM
Quote from: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 06:29:36 AM
Ceiling is semifinals this year.

Ceiling is the roof, ay?
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Benny B on March 08, 2017, 10:10:02 AM
One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
I'll be thrilled with a win over Hall and respectable loss (less than 10 points) to Villanova in the Garden, and the NCAA tournament seed it would bring us. Not expecting anything more than that.

Hall is playing fantastic basketball. This will be a hell of game. 
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Marcus92 on March 08, 2017, 10:16:37 AM
Quote from: Clam Crowder on March 08, 2017, 08:35:34 AMIf we beat Hall I am happy, If we beat Nova I am thrilled, if we win the Big East ship I know we lose in the first round of the NCAA's.

If we're seeded between 8 and 11, there's a good chance we lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament anyway — regardless of how we do in the Big East tourney. If the selection committee does it's job, that would mean we're facing a team at least as good as we are, probably even better.

I'd be thrilled to win the whole thing at Madison Square Garden. It'd be great for the program, no matter what happens after.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Windyplayer on March 08, 2017, 10:19:11 AM
Quote from: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
I'll be thrilled with a win over Hall and respectable loss (less than 10 points) to Villanova in the Garden, and the NCAA tournament seed it would bring us. Not expecting anything more than that.

Hall is playing fantastic basketball. This will be a hell of game.
Jumbo shrimp.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 10:22:54 AM
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 08, 2017, 10:16:37 AM
If we're seeded between 8 and 11, there's a good chance we lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament anyway — regardless of how we do in the Big East tourney. If the selection committee does it's job, that would mean we're facing a team at least as good as we are, probably even better.

I'd be thrilled to win the whole thing at Madison Square Garden. It'd be great for the program, no matter what happens after.

Sure, but when you look at the teams between the 5 and 10 line, no one exactly scares me.  Sure, we could lose to pretty much any of them if we aren't shooting the ball well, but we could also beat any of them without playing our best game.  Avoiding the 8/9 and avoiding Kansas or UNC in the round of 32 would be ideal.  Give me the Zags all day long.  They're a better team than we are, but we beat that team 4/10 times on a neutral court, IMO.  7/10 isn't much better as I don't like how we match up with really any of the potential 2's in Louisville, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon, and Baylor.  But after that, man, things really open up.  There are really only 8-10 really, really good teams this year.

11 seed would be ideal, but I think that ship has sailed, honestly.  I think a 6 is possible if we win the BET.  I wouldn't be shocked if the committee already has us around the 7/8 cut off due to our stack of top 50 wins, and the Nova win.  Another Nova win would certainly push us up. 
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Clam Crowder on March 08, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
If we beat Hall I am happy, If we beat Nova I am thrilled, if we win the Big East ship I know we lose in the first round of the NCAA's.

I honestly would be quite pleased with just a win over Hall and a good showing vs Nova. Hall makes as locked up as possible, a win over Nova just may push us up a seed.

Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 11:01:17 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

WHAT?  That makes no sense.  I'd take a 2-1 record in the BE tournament and an Elite 8 appearance ALL DAY EVERY DAY over a BET championship.

It's not a real life trade, but c'mon, you take the Elite 8 every time. 
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: MU_CHI on March 08, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

This is ridiculous. Going to the Elite 8 with Buzz was far and away more memorable and better for the program than a Big East Championship would have ever been.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: KampusFoods on March 08, 2017, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

Yeah this is crazy
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 11:06:34 AM
Our E8 was a much more memorable experience than winning the BE regular season title.  And winning the BE regular season title was far, far, far better than what winning a BET title would be.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Bocephys on March 08, 2017, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

This seems backwards.  I'd take any amount of NCAA tourney success over BEAST Tourney success.  No one cares about conference tournament championships.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on March 08, 2017, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: Bocephys on March 08, 2017, 11:10:45 AM
This seems backwards.  I'd take any amount of NCAA tourney success over BEAST Tourney success.  No one cares about conference tournament championships.
True
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: warriorchick on March 08, 2017, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 08, 2017, 11:12:37 AM
True

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3ohfFhG5VDtDTzQv2o/200.webp#3)
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Marcus92 on March 08, 2017, 11:20:14 AM
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 10:22:54 AMSure, but when you look at the teams between the 5 and 10 line, no one exactly scares me.

No disagreement here. I think MU is playing its best ball, and has a good chance to beat anybody we'd face in a first-round NCAA matchup. But if we are seeded in the 8-11 range, history says we're no better than a 50-50 proposition:

6 seeds are 96-52 (64.9%) against 11 seeds
7 seeds are 92-60 (60.5%) against 10 seeds
8 seeds are 80-72 (52.6%) against 9 seeds

If we manage to beat Seton Hall, Nova and Butler to win the Big East tourney, we'd be 22-11. Against the current KenPom Top 50, we'd be 8-5 — including wins over Nova (home and neutral court), Butler (neutral), Creighton (home and away), Xavier (home and away) and Vanderbilt (neutral).

Would that be enough to get us a 6 or 7 seed? We'd probably have to leapfrog teams like Iowa State (20-10, RPI 28, 10-8 versus the KenPom Top 50 headed into the Big 12 tourney), Notre Dame (23-8, RPI 50, 8-7 vs. KenPom Top 50), Michigan (20-10, RPI 46, 7-8 vs. KenPom Top 50), Oklahoma St. (20-11, RPI 35, 8-10 vs. KenPom Top 50) or Wisconsin (23-8, RPI 38, 8-6 vs. KenPom Top 50).
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

Uh, no


99% of the country doesn't care about the Big East tournament or who wins it. Almost everyone notices deep runs in the NCAA. And I personally enjoyed our Elite 8 run more than any satisfaction a conference tournament title would bring.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Benny B on March 08, 2017, 11:55:32 AM
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 08, 2017, 11:20:14 AM
No disagreement here. I think MU is playing its best ball, and has a good chance to beat anybody we'd face in a first-round NCAA matchup. But if we are seeded in the 8-11 range, history says we're no better than a 50-50 proposition:

6 seeds are 96-52 (64.9%) against 11 seeds
7 seeds are 92-60 (60.5%) against 10 seeds
8 seeds are 80-72 (52.6%) against 9 seeds


Historically, the difference between a 6-seeded team and an 11-seeded team has been a chasm relative to this year.  Heck, you could probably take the 24 teams that would be on the 6-11 lines currently, reassign their seeds at random, and still have a pretty good shot of coming out with a bracket that makes sense.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: 94Warrior on March 08, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 06:29:36 AM
Ceiling is semifinals this year.

All I know is, This team is fun to watch.  I'll cheer for them to win every game.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Clam Crowder on March 08, 2017, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 08, 2017, 10:16:37 AM
If we're seeded between 8 and 11, there's a good chance we lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament anyway — regardless of how we do in the Big East tourney. If the selection committee does it's job, that would mean we're facing a team at least as good as we are, probably even better.

I'd be thrilled to win the whole thing at Madison Square Garden. It'd be great for the program, no matter what happens after.

If we're seeded 1-16 in the tourney theres a good chance we lose in the first round of the tourney...Just the way march works. I dont give a damn what we are seeded. This team can beat anyone and lose to anyone. If we win the Big East tourney and lose by 20 in the first round of the NCAA's id be torn on how I feel
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 08, 2017, 01:06:23 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.

Quick guess on Kent St: 2002.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 01:06:39 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.

Maybe not, but if you asked while it was actually happening, what got more coverage? Kent State making the Elite 8 or winning its conference tournament?

I could honestly care less about banners.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 08, 2017, 01:08:11 PM
Boom! Got it right.  Then again, I'm a high basketball IQ connoisseur.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 08, 2017, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.

I don't this logic holds water. I can't tell you the exact year but I know it was early 2000s. I have no idea when the last time they won a conference championship was.

But to each their own. I personally value Sweet 16s over BE Championships...which I value more than Round of 32 appearances. But I can understand why others would feel differently. You hang a banner for BE Championships. You don't for Sweet 16s....do you? Actually don't know.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 08, 2017, 01:10:53 PM
I don't this logic holds water. I can't tell you the exact year but I know it was early 2000s. I have no idea when the last time they won a conference championship was.

Bingo
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.

Who gives a fu*k about banners?  Elite 8 is 1 win away from the final four.  I want us to win the BET as well, but you take NCAA success every time.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Championship > Final Four > Elite 8 > Sweet 16 > Regular Season Conference Champs > Conference Tournament Champs


Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:25:55 PM
I care about tangible things. A title is forever. A Sweet 16 is a week of optimism. As soon as you lose, that optimism is gone. Not so with a title. Winning tangible things, trophies, banners, titles, that matters. A week (or the 2 days an Elite 8 buys you), far less so.

Final Fours matter because you're playing for a national title and because it's tangible.

National Championship > Runner Up > Final Four > Conference Title (Either) > Elite 8 > And so on...
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:27:08 PM
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 01:16:25 PM
Who gives a fu*k about banners?  Elite 8 is 1 win away from the final four.  I want us to win the BET as well, but you take NCAA success every time.

So one win away from something that matters, versus already winning something that matters. Easy decision, BET every time.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:27:08 PM
So one win away from something that matters, versus already winning something that matters. Easy decision, BET every time.

Pretty sure you're alone here.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 01:30:49 PM
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on March 08, 2017, 01:06:23 PM
Quick guess on Kent St: 2002.

My guess as well.

Quote from: Lazar's Headband on March 08, 2017, 01:08:11 PM
Boom! Got it right.  Then again, I'm a high basketball IQ connoisseur.

Guess it's not that hard

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.

You can do that with conference tournaments.  Or with Final Fours.

"When's the last time Stanford won the Pac 12 Conference Tournament?"

"What year did Oklahoma State last make the Final Four?  Or Minnesota?  Or Mississippi State?"
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 01:32:08 PM
Quote from: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Championship > Final Four > Elite 8 > Sweet 16 > Regular Season Conference Champs > Conference Tournament Champs

Agree.  I might put a regular season conference title over a S16 depending on the conference.  Old BE?  I think better than S16.  This BE?  Not sure, roughly equal.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Pretty sure you're alone here.

If you care more about moments, what moment was better? Vander laying in the game winner at the Garden to clinch the Big East, or crashing out against Syracuse 2 weeks later. If you could relive one of those moments in perpetuity, which would it be? Title clinching win or soul crushing loss?
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: wadesworld on March 08, 2017, 01:35:46 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
If you care more about moments, what moment was better? Vander laying in the game winner at the Garden to clinch the Big East, or crashing out against Syracuse 2 weeks later. If you could relive one of those moments in perpetuity, which would it be? Title clinching win or soul crushing loss?

I would absolutely take the Vander game winner over Davidson over Vander's game winner at the Garden.

Of course if you compare a winning moment to a losing moment the winning moment is better.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 01:41:23 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
If you care more about moments, what moment was better? Vander laying in the game winner at the Garden to clinch the Big East, or crashing out against Syracuse 2 weeks later. If you could relive one of those moments in perpetuity, which would it be? Title clinching win or soul crushing loss?

Vander's winner over Davidson far more memorable.  As were the next two wins over Butler and Miami.   I relive the tournament success every time.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Herman Cain on March 08, 2017, 01:51:18 PM
Here is a scouting report on the Big East Tournament. It is still very popular in the City.
http://nypost.com/2017/03/08/analyzing-the-big-east-tourney-it-wont-be-a-cakewalk-for-villanova/
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: BM1090 on March 08, 2017, 01:59:26 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
If you care more about moments, what moment was better? Vander laying in the game winner at the Garden to clinch the Big East, or crashing out against Syracuse 2 weeks later. If you could relive one of those moments in perpetuity, which would it be? Title clinching win or soul crushing loss?

That's not fair. If you care about moments, would you take Vander's layup at the Garden (I'll throw in DG's big game and beating Syracuse at home)?

Or would you take Vander's layup to beat Davidson, Vander arriving on a big stage/his corner 3 against Butler in the round of 32? The week of media coverage leading up to the S16? The dismantling of Miami?

Yes, the Syracuse loss sucked. But we got 3-4 great moments in the tournament leading up to it. Why can't we consider those moments?

And for the record I actually am somewhat torn on the topic. Winning the Big East was pretty damn exciting. But I don't think each of those moments exists individually in a vacuum. You build to them and you get to remember the whole journey fondly. If I had to pick then I'm picking an E8 over the BET title, though.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: LloydsLegs on March 08, 2017, 02:00:05 PM
Quote from: RideMyBuycks on March 08, 2017, 09:12:49 AM
Ceiling is the roof, ay?

well played
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Loose Cannon on March 08, 2017, 02:10:19 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

I think this is one of the rare Air balls you have thrown.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 08, 2017, 02:10:53 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
If you care more about moments, what moment was better? Vander laying in the game winner at the Garden to clinch the Big East, or crashing out against Syracuse 2 weeks later. If you could relive one of those moments in perpetuity, which would it be? Title clinching win or soul crushing loss?

False equivalent.  The real comparison should be the win that got you to the Elite 8, in this case Miami.

Personally I go NC>FF>BE regular season/Elite 8 about the same> BET title/Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Pepe Sylvia on March 08, 2017, 02:21:28 PM
I dunno never seen Marquette win the BET I'll let you know how I feel about it next time it happens. I knpw I generally get pretty happy when MU wins games though.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on March 08, 2017, 02:10:53 PM
False equivalent.  The real comparison should be the win that got you to the Elite 8, in this case Miami.

Personally I go NC>FF>BE regular season/Elite 8 about the same> BET title/Sweet 16.

No, because to become a Big East champion, you do so by winning that distinction. You are only remembered as an Elite Eight team by losing in the Elite Eight. Had our NCAA run in 2013 not ended at the hands of Syracuse, no one would remember them in that way.

There's a limit to my thinking, which is the Final Four. Because at the start of the season, everyone in the country is playing to reach the Final Four. In college basketball, you play to win your league, win your league tournament, reach the Final Four, or win the national title.

I've never in November thought "boy, I hope we are a Round of 32 team this year." I have at that point thought about conference titles and Final Fours. And any NCAA Tournament goal short of the Final Four is just that, coming up short. Enjoyable, to a limited extent, but never feels satisfying.

Things worth celebrating are things you win. You don't win an Elite 8, Sweet 16, or Round of 32 appearance, you get that by losing at that stage.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Herman Cain on March 08, 2017, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on March 08, 2017, 02:10:53 PM
False equivalent.  The real comparison should be the win that got you to the Elite 8, in this case Miami.

Personally I go NC>FF>BE regular season/Elite 8 about the same> BET title/Sweet 16.
To me Any NCAA status >Any regular season status. That is why we are all focused on getting the team back to the NCAA. Winning the Big East Tournament Championship get you in the NCAA tournament, but winning the first game of the NCAA is better than winning the Big East Tournament. etc

It is like the PGA Tour
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on March 08, 2017, 03:36:53 PM
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 08, 2017, 10:19:11 AM
Jumbo shrimp.

I hope you're not allergic to oxymorons, because we're serving jumbo shrimp at our wedding next weekend!
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Benny B on March 08, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
Championship > Final Four > Elite 8 > Sweet 16 > Regular Season Conference Champs > Conference Tournament Champs > playing the first round on the West Coast > a toothy hummer > beating UW > catching your parents "in the act" > losing to UW > an injured starter > waking up missing a kidney > being up to your eyeballs in Cobra whiskey and lady-boy hookers > losing a game after being up 3 with under 0:05 because you fouled the other team while they were shooting a desperation three from the corner > beating DePaul > losing to DePaul > being married to Lorena Bobbitt > cancer

FIFY.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: amen426 on March 08, 2017, 04:30:57 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 03:11:16 PM
In college basketball, you play to win your league, win your league tournament, reach the Final Four, or win the national title.

I've never in November thought "boy, I hope we are a Round of 32 team this year." I have at that point thought about conference titles and Final Fours.

If that were the case, why has our bubble watch thread reached 49 pages? People care about getting in the round of 68. That was everyone's hope was back in November. No one was thinking about the Big East Tournament (unless we were extremely pessimistic that this was our only shot at a bid).

Which game are you going to be more upset if we lose? A Big East Tournament title game, or ANY NCAA tournament game?

Not even a comparison. One loss starts the postseason. The other loss starts the offseason.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 08, 2017, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: amen426 on March 08, 2017, 04:30:57 PM
If that were the case, why has our bubble watch thread reached 49 pages? People care about getting in the round of 68. That was everyone's hope was back in November. No one was thinking about the Big East Tournament (unless we were extremely pessimistic that this was our only shot at a bid).

Which game are you going to be more upset if we lose? A Big East Tournament title game, or ANY NCAA tournament game?

Not even a comparison. One loss starts the postseason. The other loss starts the offseason.


Mhmmm. But Brew clearly has his mind made up.  Not worth trying to convince him otherwise.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 04:43:25 PM
Quote from: amen426 on March 08, 2017, 04:30:57 PM
If that were the case, why has our bubble watch thread reached 49 pages? People care about getting in the round of 68. That was everyone's hope was back in November. No one was thinking about the Big East Tournament (unless we were extremely pessimistic that this was our only shot at a bid).

Which game are you going to be more upset if we lose? A Big East Tournament title game, or ANY NCAA tournament game?

Not even a comparison. One loss starts the postseason. The other loss starts the offseason.

We're in the field, so now it's seeding watch.

And again, I'd be more disappointed losing the Big East Title game than a Round of 64, 32, or Sweet 16 game. One secures a title that can't be taken away (and we've never won) and the other is the season ending like 98% of the seasons in Marquette history have ended.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Tums Festival on March 08, 2017, 07:07:32 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:25:55 PM
I care about tangible things. A title is forever. A Sweet 16 is a week of optimism. As soon as you lose, that optimism is gone. Not so with a title. Winning tangible things, trophies, banners, titles, that matters. A week (or the 2 days an Elite 8 buys you), far less so.

Final Fours matter because you're playing for a national title and because it's tangible.

National Championship > Runner Up > Final Four > Conference Title (Either) > Elite 8 > And so on...

Since you're all about trophies and the like, you must've been way more impressed with that giant Milwaukee Classic Champions trophy we have than that measly thing we got in Atlanta 40 years ago.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: drewm88 on March 08, 2017, 07:49:42 PM
I'd probably put a BET title around the same level as a Sweet 16. Give me a BET and a 1st round exit over no title and a 2nd round exit.

That being said, you people are way too angry for how good things are right now, relative to the last few years. Take a deep breath and enjoy.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: WolverineWarrior85 on March 08, 2017, 07:07:32 PM
Since you're all about trophies and the like, you must've been way more impressed with that giant Milwaukee Classic Champions trophy we have than that measly thing we got in Atlanta 40 years ago.

If people really think winning a Round of 64 (or Tuesday play in) game is bigger than a Big East title, I don't know what to say.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Bocephys on March 08, 2017, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: drewm88 on March 08, 2017, 07:49:42 PM
That being said, you people are way too angry for how good things are right now, relative to the last few years. Take a deep breath and enjoy.

Welcome to the internet. It's mostly porn here, but the non-porn sections are filled with what you describe above.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 08, 2017, 08:20:07 PM
Quote from: MU_CHI on March 08, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
This is ridiculous. Going to the Elite 8 with Buzz was far and away more memorable and better for the program than a Big East Championship would have ever been.

+1000
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 08, 2017, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
Quick, without looking, does anyone remember what year Kent State made the Elite Eight?

No. Of course not. Anything less than a Final Four is less than Big East Tournament title. No one cares about any NCAA results a year later that aren't happening the last weekend. BET warrants a banner. Elite Eight does not. No question, none whatsoever, BET title trumps anything less than a Final Four.

Quick, without looking, can you remember the last time St. John's won the BE Tournament.

No.  Of course not.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: naginiF on March 08, 2017, 08:26:18 PM
Quote from: Benny B on March 08, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
FIFY.
GOLD!
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 10:53:39 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
If you care more about moments, what moment was better? Vander laying in the game winner at the Garden to clinch the Big East, or crashing out against Syracuse 2 weeks later. If you could relive one of those moments in perpetuity, which would it be? Title clinching win or soul crushing loss?

Vander's winner over Davidson and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 10:55:53 PM
Quote from: Benny B on March 08, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
FIFY.

No argument on any of that!
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: Coleman on March 08, 2017, 10:57:57 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 07:50:00 PM
If people really think winning a Round of 64 (or Tuesday play in) game is bigger than a Big East title, I don't know what to say.

I'd say the excitement level is roughly equal. Winning in the sweet 16 to make the elite 8 is 4 or 5 times as exciting.

You are putting way too much value on a 10 team tournament. It'd be nice to win but at the end of the day I could care less. Most of its utility is its ability to get you into the NCAA tournament or better your seed. That's really it.
Title: Re: Conference Tourney Title - We're Due
Post by: BossplayaOtto on March 08, 2017, 11:29:55 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
Well, I'd rather win the Big East and go one and done in the tourney than lose the Big East Final and get knocked out in the Elite 8, so I'd be willing to take our chances of winning the final.

Quint J, I think we have a new candidate for your signature hall of shame.
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