This is what I am used to. Hope we recover.
I agree. I'm a pretty big pessimist when it comes to losses like these, but can anyone give me a positive to take away from this game??
I listened to the last 10 min and it seemed that the refs took us out of our game and our players played frustrated. We dont have a take over guy like Novak that can singlehandedly bring us back.
Hayward's three point shot is much improved. Other than that I have nothing positive to say about this game. The substitutions were absolutely atrocious. The foul situation obviously had a lot to do with it, but still...
A potential positive takeaway is that Lazar is still proving to be a solid player. It looked like he was the only one who was "on" for a while.
Quote from: wade_favre on January 06, 2008, 03:03:39 PM
I agree. I'm a pretty big pessimist when it comes to losses like these, but can anyone give me a positive to take away from this game??
Bobby Valvano was entertaining as an announcers.
No injuries, and Hayward is finding his stroke. Other than that, not much good. WVU played well, but this was a bit of a stinker on our part too.
we had a bad game, oh well. I'm gonna look at this game like an iupui or UVA...we didn't play well, we were shaky, turned the ball over way too much... This is a good game to gauge where we're at. We'll turn it around, I'm not worried. Damn tho, wvu fans r obnoxious!
Btw I'm on my iPod, not iPhone, but iPod! Dope, huh?
I meant uvs as in Utah valley state...its kinda hard to type on this and the autocorrect thing is kinda goofy
DJ shot 4-12 and relied on the outside shot when we are down 5 with 8 to go.
A positive -- I'm positive we're not as bad as we played. Every team has a couple of these games. We'll be fine!
PRN - way to stay positive, but they handled us easily. Seems like classic Marquette. This type of game shows me alot about their heart.
refs were pretty poor, but have got to expect that on the road. James needs to stop bombing so regularly, and frankly fitzgeralds minutes should be cut back significantly- if he ain't gonna shoot he is worthless. Haywood should be in the games as much as mcneal/James. He might be the best player on this team.
Can't win them all, but I would have liked to see some sound fundamentals. Very lazy d, which equalled a number of fouls. Didn't look like we adjusted during the game on defense very well. It looks good for us that Hayward is such a big part this year and so far has stepped up. Seemed a little slow all around.
agree - I dont expect a patriots season for MU, but the way a team loses says tons.
Absolutely. This loss was not only disappointing but a bit distressing. When we are known and have shown that we are a hard working fundamentally sound team, we need to keep that up. We will not win often if we don't take care of the ball and move our feet. Our strength lies in the fundamentals. This game proves that we are good but not quite there yet.
Quote from: Final Four or Bust on January 06, 2008, 03:16:15 PM
refs were pretty poor, but have got to expect that on the road. James needs to stop bombing so regularly, and frankly fitzgeralds minutes should be cut back significantly- if he ain't gonna shoot he is worthless. Haywood should be in the games as much as mcneal/James. He might be the best player on this team.
I'll second that motion regarding Fitz. He was lost out there. And if he's going to pass up an open three, what's his value out there?
I had a feeling that the Providence game was too easy for us. Give us a well coached team and we look horrible.
Quote from: mviale on January 06, 2008, 03:14:51 PM
This type of game shows me alot about their heart.
Because I'm always fond of ametur psychologists when analyzing sports, pray tell, what does this say about Marquette's "heart"?
I'm sure those that were claiming we would come close to running the table will now be saying we're NIT bound...
Now we see what it's like to play a road game that isn't in our own backyard. I would be surprised if we do any better than 4-5 on the road. If we go 8-1 at home the conference record is still 12-6.
Some problems that stuck out...
-Huggins outcoached Crean. By the time we adjusted to any defensive look we had to crawl out of a hole.
-Rebounding in the second half was atrocious.
-Hayward is much improved, but still has a long way to go. His defense was pretty poor, and getting multiple fouls on the offensive end doesn't help either.
-We're deep, and still nobody stepped up. None of the bigs that got in played particularly well against a team that isn't very big itself. Fitzgerald had the opportunity to step up with Hayward always in foul trouble and he didn't do anything at all.
If I had to say anything positive, McNeal still looks like he can carry the team at times if needed. The game would have been over much sooner if McNeal didn't carry the team after the bad start to the second half. He was all-out on defense, scoring, passing while playing with fouls and still shaking off the flu. However, to win the game he needs someone else to come alive. It would also help to have a call goes his way once in awhile.
Hate to say it, but fouling until the bitter end does not equal heart. We either gave up a little or we were just way out coached/played.
Quote from: mviale on January 06, 2008, 03:23:12 PM
I had a feeling that the Providence game was too easy for us. Give us a well coached team and we look horrible.
Yeah, give us a well coached team at their hostile home court, like Wisconsin, and we look terrible :-\
We are a good team. We had an off day against a good team with an EXCELLENT coach at their house. It happens. We will rebound.
I mean, c'mon people, we're 11-2, and this was our first bad loss. Even great teams have off days :)
First post ever here, though a regular reader.
I think we lost the game in the first few minutes of the 2nd half. We had battled back well to take the lead and then stay close at the end of the first half. (How might things have been different if we hit a shot at the end of the 1st half and went in with a lead?) Then, away in a tough arena, against a pretty solid BE team, we came out and gave up 7 straight points. We lost momentum ourselves, gave some to the Mountaineers, and allowed the crowd to get in it. We really didn't get back into any sort of confident run in the 2nd half, we were just trying to keep up and, ultimately, we fouled out and got too tired.
we also missed almost a handful of point blank shots. Also, for a team highly touted for their athletic guards...WTF is up with Ouse?! He has like zero vertical leaping ability. Y'all see that weak dunk he put up? I know, 2 pts is 2 pts, but its easier to get pumped up after an agreesive dunk. Plus he along with the resta the team fumbled rebounds and gave wayy too many offensive rebounds.
But I'm confident our guys will bounce back. They got stunned, but we'll bounce back.
Reggie Greenwood was injured in a game yesterday and was still reffing today with a noticeable limp. Anybody else have a problem with this? Two fouls really took MU out of the game. McNeal got one on a steal at mid-court for his 4th. Hayward got his 5th on a charge where it looked like he had stopped his momentum on the baseline.
I'll echo above though. The defense was terrible, penetrators getting by perimeter defenders. Offense looked like last year against a zone. And 3 or 4 defensive rebounds that just bounced long and off an MU player or right to a WVU player.
This was one of theose games where you must step up and deliver. We didn't. With his faults, Lazar was still the best player. DJ did not step up and deliver - he shot way too many unbalanced shots like he is wont to do on occasion, and Fitz was a zero. Wes ahd a decent game, but we gave up a lot of easy shot,s uncontested 3s, etc. We can't win like that - I did nlt see the totals on steals/takeaweays, but we didn't seem to get them when we needed them.
So, we have to learn from this one. We are not #10 any longer and must claw our way back to that lofty realm if we are to make it again. And ND and UCONN I think will be tough as well - they are big and strong.
Now . . . it is up to us. We will see what we are made of/ I think we can be a contender, but we need to be consistent and our "stars" need to shine game in and game out.
Quote from: chapman on January 06, 2008, 03:27:02 PM
-Huggins outcoached Crean. By the time we adjusted to any defensive look we had to crawl out of a hole.
While I agree MU was out-coached I don't think it was that big of a differential. Crean made some nice adjustments coming out of timeouts. Not only today, but as whole TC has come a long way since the old MU v. Cincy matchups.
I can't believe some of the responses here. We lost ON THE ROAD to a team that was ranked just last week. BIG F'ING DEAL. I know I picked WVU to win, I know Vegas did, I know Pomeroy did. Seemed pretty obvious to me.
We were behind the 8 ball on some fouls, but that's the way it goes. Hats off to West Virginia and their Hall of Fame coach.
When it was 56-50 I kept thinking of the missed layups by McNeal, Hayward, etc...might have been different. It wasn't.
I'd expect us to kick Seton Hall's ass next week and I love our chances against Notre Dame, though I'm sure the Packer heads will be ditching the MU game left and right which is terribly disappointing as we will need the 6th man support.
We lost...to a good team...on the road...a team that has won 13 straight at home. We were in the game, made some poor decisions, missed some easy shots, got in foul trouble. Folks, it won't be our last loss either.
Quote from: mviale on January 06, 2008, 03:23:12 PM
I had a feeling that the Providence game was too easy for us. Give us a well coached team and we look horrible.
Like Wisconsin, Duke, etc? ::)
I think I'll mow the lawn...same old same old here when we lose. It was a semi-clunker against a good team on the road. We'll be fine.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 06, 2008, 03:57:02 PM
I can't believe some of the responses here. We lost ON THE ROAD to a team that was ranked just last week. BIG F'ING DEAL. I know I picked WVU to win, I know Vegas did, I know Pomeroy did. Seemed pretty obvious to me.
We lost...to a good team...on the road...a team that has won 13 straight at home. We were in the game, made some poor decisions, missed some easy shots, got in foul trouble. Folks, it won't be our last loss either.
But that's the point, Chico.
This kind of game where the odds are stacked against you will reveal a lot about your team and where they're at (this point of the season).
If we win, we know how good we can be.
With the loss, you don't learn much about the capacity of this team.
Sure MU hung in there, but there's still so much growth with the players and ESPECIALLY with the playcalling. Hate to lose a game - especially one that was so close for so long.
We WILL bounce back. I'm just left wondering how BIG are we going to comeback.
While I agree that this game isn't the end of the world. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to play more than one road game before we start Big East play.
Crean also got outcoached today.
Yes, Lazar is MUCH improved and yes, I believe he might be our best player, but I don't think he showed it today. Though he shot well from the outside, he hurt us at times offensively. Particular with charges, a key missed layup and dumb fouls. He had 5 fouls, but I feel like he could have been called for 8.
Heck of a player, but today wasn't his best. I anticipate a strong game against SH
We were in it til the last five or so minutes of the game. We will bounce back, but I agree one more road game before BE play would not have hurt.
Quote from: Final Four or Bust on January 06, 2008, 03:16:15 PM
refs were pretty poor, but have got to expect that on the road. James needs to stop bombing so regularly, and frankly fitzgeralds minutes should be cut back significantly- if he ain't gonna shoot he is worthless. Haywood should be in the games as much as mcneal/James. He might be the best player on this team.
I was blasted on the other board for saying I felt we were a better team when Fitz was hurt. Gave the othersore minutes. I believe Fitz is a one trick pony at best.
Not sure if it's the chicken or the egg. Does Fitz have the ability? Yes. Is there a coaching plan to get Fitz the ball with an opportunity to shoot? Not sure.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 06, 2008, 03:57:02 PM
I can't believe some of the responses here. We lost ON THE ROAD to a team that was ranked just last week. BIG F'ING DEAL. I know I picked WVU to win, I know Vegas did, I know Pomeroy did. Seemed pretty obvious to me.
We were behind the 8 ball on some fouls, but that's the way it goes. Hats off to West Virginia and their Hall of Fame coach.
We lost...to a good team...on the road...a team that has won 13 straight at home. We were in the game, made some poor decisions, missed some easy shots, got in foul trouble. Folks, it won't be our last loss either.
I agree Chicos. WVU is a very good team with an outstanding coach who knows MU well. The key is how we regroup on the short turnaround. We are not going to win every game, and this loss is not a suprise. We can still go 11-5 in the BE.
ND game will be the real test. We lose that one and The Hoyas and The Irish will be duking it out for the top spot.
I wish we would drive to the hole, drive and dish more and not fall back into the 3 when easy 2's would do the trick. They were workin the baseline for a while but coudn't finish the easy 2. Our guards can do this, wish they would do it more. Forget the 3's.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 06, 2008, 05:11:36 PM
Not sure if it's the chicken or the egg. Does Fitz have the ability? Yes. Is there a coaching plan to get Fitz the ball with an opportunity to shoot? Not sure.
Having the physical ability and having the attitude necessary to use that ability are two different things. Fitz has never had the true shooters mindset that's needed for someone with his ability to be successful. Diener had it from day one, so did Wardle and even to an extent John Cliff. Novak had to develop the mindset, and it took until the end of his junior year for him to get it. Fitz has yet to develop the mindset that he is a shooter first and everything else is secondary and he needs to put up a shot if there is even an inch of space. He's just too timid and too willing to defer to far worse shooters. Until that changes, running plays for him doesn't matter.
great job by Huggins, loved seeing the 'junk D's', haven't seen them used so well since Al did. Glad he's back in the BEast, but might have to call Mike Dean for tips, as he sure had Huggy's number.
Agree about misuse of Fitz' talent. Why no double screens or inside/outside for your best 3shooter?
Agree further refs sucked, but as deep as we are, we could have overcome this.
Dudes...
We played a poor defensive game on the road in conference and lost. I am unhappy about the defensive effort, but it doesn't mean we're bad, or that we were overrated, or that we are destined to lose more games than we win. Its one game in an 18 game schedule, 9 of which will be played on the road. Guess what...we're gonna win more of those than we lose. We'll win almost all of them at home and when all is said and done we'll be atop the Big East. MU did something almost every team that goes into that building does. I would have preferred a win, but big effing deal.
BTW, as it relates to the subject of this thread, when was MU ever not on earth? Did anyone really see 11-1 as somehow playing way over their heads?
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 06, 2008, 04:12:52 PM
While I agree that this game isn't the end of the world. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to play more than one road game before we start Big East play.
Crean also got outcoached today.
I love...absolutely love the first time posters that come out EVERY SINGLE YEAR when we lose a game. It's just beautiful. Like the swallows at Capistrano. You can set your watch to it.
Uhm, last I checked we played 4 games away from home before this game...including two road games and two neutral games.
It's also funny that we go into Wisconsin, the team with the LONGEST winning streak in the country and win that game...yet Marquette_g didn't think it was necessary to play another "road game" prior to that. ::)
It's so predictable and funny.
Yes, Crean got outcoached today...that triangle and two that Huggins got from Tim Floyd two days ago really threw the team for a loop. Coaches with 600 wins will do that from time to time. And then again, I guess Crean "outcoached" Bo Ryan, etc a few weeks ago. I'm sure over the course of the year there will be other times when our coach is "outcoached" and times when our guy "outcoaches" them...if you even buy into any of that kind of stuff.
Quote from: MUDPT on January 06, 2008, 03:35:52 PM
Reggie Greenwood was injured in a game yesterday and was still reffing today with a noticeable limp. Anybody else have a problem with this? Two fouls really took MU out of the game. McNeal got one on a steal at mid-court for his 4th. Hayward got his 5th on a charge where it looked like he had stopped his momentum on the baseline.
I'll echo above though. The defense was terrible, penetrators getting by perimeter defenders. Offense looked like last year against a zone. And 3 or 4 defensive rebounds that just bounced long and off an MU player or right to a WVU player.
I thought both of those calls were right. The big foul call that hurt was the fourth on Hayward, when he grabbed a board but was called for a non-existent foul. I was all over the we-got-jobbed express after the Duke game, but this game we fouled a lot. We reach for steals way too much. They are always fouls and we are at the mercy of how much the refs will let us get away with. I thought we even caught a few breaks in this area.
Quote from: wade_favre on January 06, 2008, 03:03:39 PM
I agree. I'm a pretty big pessimist when it comes to losses like these, but can anyone give me a positive to take away from this game??
Here's four:
It was a one possession game on the road against arguably one of the four best teams in the conference with 6:30 to go.
We held WVU without a field goal for nearly a 10 minute stretch in the first half.
We battled back on the road from 10-point 1st half and 8-point 2nd half deficits.
We shot 80% from the FT line for the game.
Quote from: bma725 on January 06, 2008, 06:29:15 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 06, 2008, 05:11:36 PM
Not sure if it's the chicken or the egg. Does Fitz have the ability? Yes. Is there a coaching plan to get Fitz the ball with an opportunity to shoot? Not sure.
Fitz has yet to develop the mindset that he is a shooter first and everything else is secondary and he needs to put up a shot if there is even an inch of space. He's just too timid and too willing to defer to far worse shooters. Until that changes, running plays for him doesn't matter.
DING DING DING
And you can add to that list that it doesn't help being one of the tallest players on the team and you don't hit the boards hard consistently. That was also a pet peeve about Novak. And he's obviously learning to do that more in the NBA.
Chico,
I'm not saying the season is over. I'm saying this didn't look like a team ready to play today. I'm also at loss for the 2 road games you said we played prior to this. To the best of my memory we have played away from the BC vs. Chaminade, OSU, Duke [neutral site] and UW [road game] prior to today.
Hayward definately charged at the end. When you have four fouls you should play smarter. However, I thought the foul they gave him on the rebound was a bad call. He basically went straight up for the rebound and got sandwiched by two WV players. However, you have to expect the calls to go in favor of the home team. That is why it is so hard to win on the road.
can we honestly say, MU put their best effort in the final 8 min down 5 or 6? Not the effort of a top 10 team. I think this team is loaded with talent and a sweet 16 was potentially a solid bet. After today, looks like Alabama or MSU 1st round and we are done. This 15 point loss could be an exception, but MU really came back to earth today.
Wes Matthews???
seems like a lot of players are being mentioned for having a bad performance, but watching that game for me proves that it is clear that Wes is the biggest disappointment for this team right now.
dont let the 2 threes at the end of the game fool you, he missed open shot after open shot at many critical points during the game, to the point that wvu started leaving him wide open.
I just cant get over how much we expect from him and how little he is giving. Fitz didnt play well defensively, but he didnt take many shots cause they knew his strenght. We also dont expect a ton from him. ooze was ooze, burke was burke, etc, etc.
Ive said before that if DJ isnt a star this team doesnt have a successful year. So far he has, today he wasnt but he wasnt terrible. Its clear that if hes not on the floor and running the team we struggle.
What else seems clear is that if Wes doesnt turn it around here quickly and become more efficient, he needs to lose some of his minutes. However, I dont know if this team with this system, the guards and lack of height, can afford that because he defends and he rebounds. He cannot keep this up offensively though...
Hes basically like that piece of property you keep on waiting to apprciate in value, or that girl you keep on waiting on to take it to the next step...c'mon wes
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 06, 2008, 09:43:17 PM
Chico,
I'm not saying the season is over. I'm saying this didn't look like a team ready to play today. I'm also at loss for the 2 road games you said we played prior to this. To the best of my memory we have played away from the BC vs. Chaminade, OSU, Duke [neutral site] and UW [road game] prior to today.
Chaminade counted as a road game
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 06, 2008, 03:57:02 PM
I can't believe some of the responses here. We lost ON THE ROAD to a team that was ranked just last week. BIG F'ING DEAL. I know I picked WVU to win, I know Vegas did, I know Pomeroy did. Seemed pretty obvious to me.
We were behind the 8 ball on some fouls, but that's the way it goes. Hats off to West Virginia and their Hall of Fame coach.
When it was 56-50 I kept thinking of the missed layups by McNeal, Hayward, etc...might have been different. It wasn't.
I'd expect us to kick Seton Hall's ass next week and I love our chances against Notre Dame, though I'm sure the Packer heads will be ditching the MU game left and right which is terribly disappointing as we will need the 6th man support.
We lost...to a good team...on the road...a team that has won 13 straight at home. We were in the game, made some poor decisions, missed some easy shots, got in foul trouble. Folks, it won't be our last loss either.
Thank you,
I didn't have a great feeling about this game because WVU is a good team and I was worried that we'd get Pittsnogled again (They'd be on fire from beyond the arc) and looking at the first half stats and even mid way through the 2nd half WVU was shooting nealry 50% from 3. Games like this happen, I didn't expect us to go 29-1 and I'm pretty positive we won't go 27-2. As other teams will find out Morgantown isn't an easy place to play and I don't consider this a "bad" loss. But you're right Chicos, it's inevitable that after a loss all the chicken littles come out. I think we'll bounce back strong against SH and I think we'll even beat ND but rest assured, our road games at Uconn, at Syracuse, at Notre Dame, and at Villanova will be just as difficult because every game in the BE is difficult...
Anyways, it'll be nice to watch them knock around SH and then ND ;)
Quote from: chapman on January 06, 2008, 03:27:02 PM
I'm sure those that were claiming we would come close to running the table will now be saying we're NIT bound...
Now we see what it's like to play a road game that isn't in our own backyard. I would be surprised if we do any better than 4-5 on the road. If we go 8-1 at home the conference record is still 12-6.
Some problems that stuck out...
-Huggins outcoached Crean. By the time we adjusted to any defensive look we had to crawl out of a hole.
-Rebounding in the second half was atrocious.
-Hayward is much improved, but still has a long way to go. His defense was pretty poor, and getting multiple fouls on the offensive end doesn't help either.
-We're deep, and still nobody stepped up. None of the bigs that got in played particularly well against a team that isn't very big itself. Fitzgerald had the opportunity to step up with Hayward always in foul trouble and he didn't do anything at all.
If I had to say anything positive, McNeal still looks like he can carry the team at times if needed. The game would have been over much sooner if McNeal didn't carry the team after the bad start to the second half. He was all-out on defense, scoring, passing while playing with fouls and still shaking off the flu. However, to win the game he needs someone else to come alive. It would also help to have a call goes his way once in awhile.
Thanks for the info on McNeal's flu status - I thought he played a bad first half. At least he has a valid excuse. I don't think anyone mentioned unforced turnovers. We only had two more TOs than WV so this doesn't come out in that stat. But I thought that there were a lot of these, especially in the first half. The only positive to me is that this game should definitely get our attention about how to prep and get the right attitude for a road game.
Quote from: MUWarrior11 on January 06, 2008, 04:28:20 PM
Yes, Lazar is MUCH improved and yes, I believe he might be our best player, but I don't think he showed it today. Though he shot well from the outside, he hurt us at times offensively. Particular with charges, a key missed layup and dumb fouls. He had 5 fouls, but I feel like he could have been called for 8.
Heck of a player, but today wasn't his best. I anticipate a strong game against SH
He also could have been called for 3 if they let both teams play! Some of the crap the refs were pulling was terrible, and I agree with the above poster that mentioned the one ref being injured yesterday and still coming out for this game. Ok, it shows he wants to be out there but when you aren't in a condition to run the court, stay off of it. There was no reason for a guy that couldn't move or keep himself in position to be out there. And the Jerel foul that WAS a clean steal was absolute bull. There's no way around that.
Quote from: wade_favre on January 06, 2008, 03:03:39 PM
I agree. I'm a pretty big pessimist when it comes to losses like these, but can anyone give me a positive to take away from this game??
It's a conference road loss to one of the better teams.
No team in the Big East will go undefeated.
With that said, I wish MU had played better... but realistically it's only one loss (on the road), so you can't be that disappointed.
Relax boys, relax.
MU will probably win a couple of games they "shouldn't have", but they will also probably drop 2 games they could/should have won.
What bothered me (and I was there) was the offensive foul call on Lazar was made by the white-haired official 35 feet from the play. The ref under the basket made no signal. The Jerel call, which was right in front of us, was absoluytely ridiculous, too. Jerel tipped the ball away and a second later was held as he was going for it. Then the whistle blew and the foul was called on him.
Whatever. They deserved to win, we deserved to lose.
Quote from: mudimitri on January 06, 2008, 11:34:33 PM
Wes Matthews???
seems like a lot of players are being mentioned for having a bad performance, but watching that game for me proves that it is clear that Wes is the biggest disappointment for this team right now.
dont let the 2 threes at the end of the game fool you, he missed open shot after open shot at many critical points during the game, to the point that wvu started leaving him wide open.
I just cant get over how much we expect from him and how little he is giving. Fitz didnt play well defensively, but he didnt take many shots cause they knew his strenght. We also dont expect a ton from him. ooze was ooze, burke was burke, etc, etc.
Ive said before that if DJ isnt a star this team doesnt have a successful year. So far he has, today he wasnt but he wasnt terrible. Its clear that if hes not on the floor and running the team we struggle.
What else seems clear is that if Wes doesnt turn it around here quickly and become more efficient, he needs to lose some of his minutes. However, I dont know if this team with this system, the guards and lack of height, can afford that because he defends and he rebounds. He cannot keep this up offensively though...
Hes basically like that piece of property you keep on waiting to apprciate in value, or that girl you keep on waiting on to take it to the next step...c'mon wes
Hate to call you out, but you're just wrong in this case.
Wes' line:
4-8FG, 3-4FT, 1-OREB, 2TREB, 0AST, 3PF, 13PTS in 28MIN
Lazar's Line:
3-8FG, 4-4FT, 1-OREB, 4TREB, 0AST, 5PF, 13PTS in 17MIN
Jerel's line:
4-8FG, 2-2FT, 1-OREB, 3TREB, 3AST, 5PF, 10PTS in 30MIN
James' line:
4-12FG, 0-0FT, 0-OREB, 0TREB, 5AST, 3PF, 10PTS in 35MIN
Wes was actually more efficient than any of the 5 starters, and you can't discount the 2 "garbage time" 3's at the end of the game. They count as much then as they do at any other point in the game.
As for missing "open shot after open shot," how about Lazar and Ooze missing CRITICAL no-footers when the game was still in reach? Or Ooze going 0-2 from the stripe when the game was still in reach?
DJ didn't shoot a free throw? didn't have a rebound? and 4-12FG? And it's not like he "wasn't on the floor leading the team," he played 35min, more than anyone else.
As others have mentioned, this game came down to hustle. WVU beat us to just about every long rebound/loose ball all day. For whatever reason (quick turnaround? overconfidence? whatever) our guys just didn't bring the intensity required to win in the BIG EAST, especially on the road to a very good WVU team.
Wes may not have been the team's top performer in the non-conference season, but, like last year, I expect him to turn it on and provide consistent effort throughout the regular season. Since when can you pin a loss on a guy who shoots 50% from the floor, 75% from the line and scores 13PTS in 28minutes? I could be wrong, and feel free to call me out if I am, but it seems like you have it out for Wes.
Quote from: IAmMarquette on January 07, 2008, 02:20:38 PM
Quote from: mudimitri on January 06, 2008, 11:34:33 PM
Wes Matthews???
seems like a lot of players are being mentioned for having a bad performance, but watching that game for me proves that it is clear that Wes is the biggest disappointment for this team right now.
dont let the 2 threes at the end of the game fool you, he missed open shot after open shot at many critical points during the game, to the point that wvu started leaving him wide open.
I just cant get over how much we expect from him and how little he is giving. Fitz didnt play well defensively, but he didnt take many shots cause they knew his strenght. We also dont expect a ton from him. ooze was ooze, burke was burke, etc, etc.
Ive said before that if DJ isnt a star this team doesnt have a successful year. So far he has, today he wasnt but he wasnt terrible. Its clear that if hes not on the floor and running the team we struggle.
What else seems clear is that if Wes doesnt turn it around here quickly and become more efficient, he needs to lose some of his minutes. However, I dont know if this team with this system, the guards and lack of height, can afford that because he defends and he rebounds. He cannot keep this up offensively though...
Hes basically like that piece of property you keep on waiting to apprciate in value, or that girl you keep on waiting on to take it to the next step...c'mon wes
Hate to call you out, but you're just wrong in this case.
Wes' line:
4-8FG, 3-4FT, 1-OREB, 2TREB, 0AST, 3PF, 13PTS in 28MIN
Lazar's Line:
3-8FG, 4-4FT, 1-OREB, 4TREB, 0AST, 5PF, 13PTS in 17MIN
Jerel's line:
4-8FG, 2-2FT, 1-OREB, 3TREB, 3AST, 5PF, 10PTS in 30MIN
James' line:
4-12FG, 0-0FT, 0-OREB, 0TREB, 5AST, 3PF, 10PTS in 35MIN
Wes was actually more efficient than any of the 5 starters, and you can't discount the 2 "garbage time" 3's at the end of the game. They count as much then as they do at any other point in the game.
As for missing "open shot after open shot," how about Lazar and Ooze missing CRITICAL no-footers when the game was still in reach? Or Ooze going 0-2 from the stripe when the game was still in reach?
DJ didn't shoot a free throw? didn't have a rebound? and 4-12FG? And it's not like he "wasn't on the floor leading the team," he played 35min, more than anyone else.
As others have mentioned, this game came down to hustle. WVU beat us to just about every long rebound/loose ball all day. For whatever reason (quick turnaround? overconfidence? whatever) our guys just didn't bring the intensity required to win in the BIG EAST, especially on the road to a very good WVU team.
Wes may not have been the team's top performer in the non-conference season, but, like last year, I expect him to turn it on and provide consistent effort throughout the regular season. Since when can you pin a loss on a guy who shoots 50% from the floor, 75% from the line and scores 13PTS in 28minutes? I could be wrong, and feel free to call me out if I am, but it seems like you have it out for Wes.
I dont agree with you one bit.
I have watched almost every single game this year, as im sure you have, and have no doubt that the biggest disappointment on the team is Wes. Forget the stats, i dont even really bother with those i watch the games. Wes, for whatever reason, has lost much of his ability on the offensive end. He can no longer create for himself, he is a terrible shooter despite the 2 late 3's, he now turns the ball over and makes poor mistakes fairly often it seems... quite simply he looks to me to offer very little offensively.
My comment here takes into account what we expect from certain players, and please dont tell me certain players dont have more expectations than others. remember ooze 4 years ago? remember wes 3 years ago? Looking at what i expect from players and how they are performing thus far he is clearly underachieving up to this point, more so than anyone else this season.
That said: 1-hes a good kid and a leader, 2-he plays solid defense and the team needs his size, 3- he has the potential to turn it around and get hot at some point
Its that untouched potential that makes him so disappointing thus far
Quote from: chapman on January 06, 2008, 03:27:02 PM
I'm sure those that were claiming we would come close to running the table will now be saying we're NIT bound...
Now we see what it's like to play a road game that isn't in our own backyard. I would be surprised if we do any better than 4-5 on the road. If we go 8-1 at home the conference record is still 12-6.
Some problems that stuck out...
-Huggins outcoached Crean. By the time we adjusted to any defensive look we had to crawl out of a hole.
-Rebounding in the second half was atrocious.
-Hayward is much improved, but still has a long way to go. His defense was pretty poor, and getting multiple fouls on the offensive end doesn't help either.
-We're deep, and still nobody stepped up. None of the bigs that got in played particularly well against a team that isn't very big itself. Fitzgerald had the opportunity to step up with Hayward always in foul trouble and he didn't do anything at all.
If I had to say anything positive, McNeal still looks like he can carry the team at times if needed. The game would have been over much sooner if McNeal didn't carry the team after the bad start to the second half. He was all-out on defense, scoring, passing while playing with fouls and still shaking off the flu. However, to win the game he needs someone else to come alive. It would also help to have a call goes his way once in awhile.
12-6 got will get us and 8-7 seed!!! That is UNACCEPTABLE for the talent on this team.
If your happy with that fine.
We lost because we acted like the ball was a freaking hand grenade. I can count numerous times when they would miss a one-one and we would get our hands on an unpressured rebound and just literally fumble the ball out of bounds. On three occassions they hit a three pointer right after that play.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 06, 2008, 05:07:33 PM
Quote from: Final Four or Bust on January 06, 2008, 03:16:15 PM
refs were pretty poor, but have got to expect that on the road. James needs to stop bombing so regularly, and frankly fitzgeralds minutes should be cut back significantly- if he ain't gonna shoot he is worthless. Haywood should be in the games as much as mcneal/James. He might be the best player on this team.
I was blasted on the other board for saying I felt we were a better team when Fitz was hurt. Gave the othersore minutes. I believe Fitz is a one trick pony at best.
Thank god I wasnt the only one thinking this same thought!!