I was listening to the Marquette basketball hour where Homer was interviewing Jimmy Mac, Roney Efford and Tony Miller. Homer stated that for years he's felt that the 94 sweet 16 team was actually better than the 2003 Final Four team. To me that seems absurd, but maybe some of the older guys can validate that?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:30:15 AM
I was listening to the Marquette basketball hour where Homer was interviewing Jimmy Mac, Roney Efford and Tony Miller. Homer stated that for years he's felt that the 94 sweet 16 team was actually better than the 2003 Final Four team. To me that seems absurd, but maybe some of the older guys can validate that?
It was not.
Duane Wade was far better than anyone on that team. Diener was a better scoring option than Miller at point. That team never cracked the top 20 in the AP poll until the last week of the season and was a 6 seed in the tournament. The 2003 team was top 10 at the end an a 3 seed.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:30:15 AM
I was listening to the Marquette basketball hour where Homer was interviewing Jimmy Mac, Roney Efford and Tony Miller. Homer stated that for years he's felt that the 94 sweet 16 team was actually better than the 2003 Final Four team. To me that seems absurd, but maybe some of the older guys can validate that?
Might be a little flattery for his guests.
The only two teams in recent memory that might have been better than the 2003 team are the 2009 team (when fully healthy) and the 2012 team.
Yeah, no. Much as I loved those guys for getting us back on the map, they weren't anywhere near as good due to the transcendent player that DWade was.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on February 06, 2017, 10:32:40 AM
It was not.
Duane Wade was far better than anyone on that team. Diener was a better scoring option than Miller at point. That team never cracked the top 20 in the AP poll until the last week of the season and was a 6 seed in the tournament. The 2003 team was top 10 at the end an a 3 seed.
not to nitpick but it's Dwyane Wade. And thanks for the input, I'm sure Mac Efford and Miller were just talking themselves up but they seemed to agree that they could've taken him. I believe it was Efford who said after taking out Penny Hardaway, Wade wouldn't be a problem.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on February 06, 2017, 10:32:40 AM
It was not.
Duane Wade was far better than anyone on that team. Diener was a better scoring option than Miller at point. That team never cracked the top 20 in the AP poll until the last week of the season and was a 6 seed in the tournament. The 2003 team was top 10 at the end an a 3 seed.
And Dwyane Wilson is almost as good as that Wade guy.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
not to nitpick but it's Dwyane Wade. And thanks for the input, I'm sure Mac Efford and Miller were just talking themselves up but they seemed to agree that they could've taken him. I believe it was Efford who said after taking out Penny Hardaway, Wade wouldn't be a problem.
Well then you gotta score more than 49 point v. Duke in the S16 then.
The same 2003 that got smacked by UAB in the Conf USA Tournament. First round grind vs Holy Cross that was saved by Travis. 1994 would match-up pretty well.
I think 2003 wins 8 out of 10 games. This thread got me thinking about HEllenson. While I think most will agree that he is and will continue to be a great basketball player I never saw the one and done player. This is Wade's fault. I always thought one and done guys just dominate games. I have been comparing HEllenson to Wade vs Pitt and Wade vs Kentucky in the run up to the final 4. That Kentucky game was an epic dismantling of an overall 1 seed. I guess that isn't the correct measure for what a one and done guy should look like.
Our '71 team was better than our National Championship team.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 06, 2017, 11:07:34 AM
Our '71 team was better than our National Championship team.
Well that's the obvious answer to the question that wasn't asked and has nothing to do with the 94 or 2003 team.
There is also the possibility that Homer was stroking these guys a little bit.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 06, 2017, 11:13:43 AM
There is also the possibility that Homer was stroking these guys a little bit.
I could see that. Just on the off chance he wasn't I figured I'd see if the general consensus was that the 94 team is severely underrated.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Well that's the obvious answer to the question that wasn't asked and has nothing to do with the 94 or 2003 team.
I second that. The 1971 Warriors were truly special and yes, better than the 1974 and 1977 teams, though I loved them all.
Wade was indeed transcedent in 03 and tough to compare with the older teams.
But Dean the Dream Memimiger was that way in 1971.
He was not the scorer of DWade, though he could score. The Dream controlled the ball for every game: smooth as silk, steady as they come, no turnovers.
The only game MU lost that year was when he fouled out on a cheap charging call by a Big 10 Ref. Yes, we were playing Ohio State in the regionals. It was the only game in the Dream's great MU career he ever fouled out of.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
not to nitpick but it's Dwyane Wade. And thanks for the input, I'm sure Mac Efford and Miller were just talking themselves up but they seemed to agree that they could've taken him. I believe it was Efford who said after taking out Penny Hardaway, Wade wouldn't be a problem.
Oh no you didn't ... just go out of your way to correct the spelling of a fellow Scooper and then misspell Eford's name ... twice!
As for Eford's quote, yes, I'm sure he also would have kept Wade from being an NBA All-Star ... if only Eford had been good enough to get into an NBA game and defend anybody, let alone Wade. Hilarious.
Quote from: DoggyDaddy on February 06, 2017, 11:34:07 AM
I second that. The 1971 Warriors were truly special and yes, better than the 1974 and 1977 teams, though I loved them all.
Wade was indeed transcedent in 03 and tough to compare with the older teams.
But Dean the Dream Memimiger was that way in 1971.
He was not the scorer of DWade, though he could score. The Dream controlled the ball for every game: smooth as silk, steady as they come, no turnovers.
The only game MU lost that year was when he fouled out on a cheap charging call by a Big 10 Ref. Yes, we were playing Ohio State in the regionals. It was the only game in the Dream's great MU career he ever fouled out of.
There is another thread for comparing MU's best teams ever.
Quote from: bradley center bat on February 06, 2017, 11:02:14 AM
The same 2003 that got smacked by UAB in the Conf USA Tournament. First round grind vs Holy Cross that was saved by Travis. 1994 would match-up pretty well.
Sure the 1994 team would match up well - it was a top 25 team that made the Sweet 16. The 1994 team wasn't better though in my opinion.
Quote from: MU82 on February 06, 2017, 11:40:18 AM
Oh no you didn't ... just go out of your way to correct the spelling of a fellow Scooper and then misspell Eford's name ... twice!
As for Eford's quote, yes, I'm sure he also would have kept Wade from being an NBA All-Star ... if only Eford had been good enough to get into an NBA game and defend anybody, let alone Wade. Hilarious.
not sure an extra "F" is the same as completely misspelling the name of our all time most recognizable basketball star though I do see the irony and chuckled.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
not to nitpick but it's Dwyane Wade. And thanks for the input, I'm sure Mac Efford and Miller were just talking themselves up but they seemed to agree that they could've taken him. I believe it was Efford who said after taking out Penny Hardaway, Wade wouldn't be a problem.
Penny Hardaway was a fantastic college basketball player. However those Memphis teams weren't great. The first year, Marquette went 1-1 against them. Memphis went on a little run all the way to the regional finals.
The second year Memphis started the season ranked top 10, lost their first three games, finished the season unranked and losing in the first round of the tournament.
The 2003 Marquette team was head and shoulders better than both of these Memphis teams.
I think the best time in my life time was the 2012 team.
1994 team was huge, old, tough As nails and had three future NBA players on the roster. Also had a few other outstanding collegiate players that did not make NBA.
Really enjoyed that team but were not as gifted as the 2003 team.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 06, 2017, 12:44:00 PM
1994 team was huge, old, tough As nails and had three future NBA players on the roster. Also had a few other outstanding collegiate players that did not make NBA.
Really enjoyed that team but were not as gifted as the 2003 team.
I forgot that Crawford was a freshman on that team.
538's ELO rankings Top 10
1. 1976
2. 2008
3. 1977
4. 1971
5. 2002 (ha)
6. 2012
7. 2003
8. 1974
9. 1978
10. 2009
11. 1973
12. 2010
13. 2013
14. 1994
I think I got that right.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 12:09:01 PM
not sure an extra "F" is the same as completely misspelling the name of our all time most recognizable basketball star though I do see the irony and chuckled.
Thanks for taking it in the manner it was intended.
It would be closer than a lot of people think. IMO college hoops was a lot, lot stronger back then. Glenn Robinson & Grant Hill were each third year players. Think about that. No way that happens now. A Top 25 team back then, could be Top 10 team in 2003.
Jason Kidd as a sophomore was the only underclassmen taken in the Top 13.
Looking at who all stayed in school back then is crazy compared to today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_draft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_draft)
Quote from: DoggyDaddy on February 06, 2017, 11:34:07 AM
I second that. The 1971 Warriors were truly special and yes, better than the 1974 and 1977 teams, though I loved them all.
Wade was indeed transcedent in 03 and tough to compare with the older teams.
But Dean the Dream Memimiger was that way in 1971.
He was not the scorer of DWade, though he could score. The Dream controlled the ball for every game: smooth as silk, steady as they come, no turnovers.
The only game MU lost that year was when he fouled out on a cheap charging call by a Big 10 Ref. Yes, we were playing Ohio State in the regionals. It was the only game in the Dream's great MU career he ever fouled out of.
Also I would point out the free throw shooting was bad in the Ohio State game that year.....
Quote from: bradley center bat on February 06, 2017, 11:02:14 AM
The same 2003 that got smacked by UAB in the Conf USA Tournament. First round grind vs Holy Cross that was saved by Travis. 1994 would match-up pretty well.
I just looked up the UAB game. MU's turnover rate was 39% in that game, which is the worst in recorded (Pomeroy) history. That's incredibly bad.
Btw - for anyone saying it's a slam dunk for the 2003 team, remember that team had the 101st ranked defense. No team with a defense that bad wins 80% of their games against an experienced and tall 94 squad.
Think Novak / Travis / Wade would be a lot to handle for that '94 team.
Quote from: bradley center bat on February 06, 2017, 11:02:14 AM
The same 2003 that got smacked by UAB in the Conf USA Tournament. First round grind vs Holy Cross that was saved by Travis. 1994 would match-up pretty well.
For those pointing out the Holy Cross game, that was an experienced team in their 3rd straight NCAA tourney, coached by a very respected and notable coach in Ralph Willard. If I remember correctly, they had only lost 4 games all year and only 1 since the New Year. It wasn't some fluke mid major we struggled with.
Also, a few years ago, I became very good friends with a HC alum through a wedding party. We obviously talked about that game. He was a soph at the time. His roommate was a team manager and his freshman year roommate played on the team. He said literally, they both told him the gameplan had been to take Wade out of the game and force Diener to beat them. And beat them he did. Pretty amazing to hear in retrospect.
Quote from: MUDPT on February 06, 2017, 12:51:24 PM
538's ELO rankings Top 10
1. 1976
2. 2008
3. 1977
4. 1971
5. 2002 (ha)
6. 2012
7. 2003
8. 1974
9. 1978
10. 2009
11. 1973
12. 2010
13. 2013
14. 1994
I think I got that right.
I agree....I've seen em all .........76 is the best
The interview homer did was with Mac, tony miller, and DAMON KEY. Roney Eford was not interviewed.
I agree that 2003 wins. But...
Miller was at the top of college basketball in assists and Mac led the country in blocks.
Tony miller stops Diener from scoring. And Merritt cannot stop Damon Key. Makes it a closer game.
Quote from: thanooj on February 07, 2017, 07:07:47 AM
The interview homer did was with Mac, tony miller, and DAMON KEY. Roney Eford was not interviewed.
I agree that 2003 wins. But...
Miller was at the top of college basketball in assists and Mac led the country in blocks.
Tony miller stops Diener from scoring. And Merritt cannot stop Damon Key. Makes it a closer game.
Oops that's my bad everyone
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
I believe it was Efford who said after taking out Penny Hardaway, Wade wouldn't be a problem.
Tell that to the University of Kentucky.
People are forgetting about Robert Jackson. He is, in my opinion, one of the most overlooked, underrated players in my time as a Marquette fan.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 07, 2017, 07:59:14 AM
Tell that to the University of Kentucky.
They did, in the round of 32 lol
Quote from: wadesworld on February 07, 2017, 08:07:57 AM
People are forgetting about Robert Jackson. He is, in my opinion, one of the most overlooked, underrated players in my time as a Marquette fan.
Exactly. I mean I like Damon Key and all, but he wasn't Marquis Estill.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 07, 2017, 08:07:57 AM
People are forgetting about Robert Jackson. He is, in my opinion, one of the most overlooked, underrated players in my time as a Marquette fan.
Agreed. Mac hated physical centers and that is exactly what Jackson was. RJ would not dominate JM but he would get his against him.
One thing to Sugar's point about the 2003 team's defensive ranking. They were not a bad half court defense but that 2003 team was awful at transition defense. That 1994 team was not really built to take advantage of that.
Quote from: thanooj on February 07, 2017, 07:07:47 AM
The interview homer did was with Mac, tony miller, and DAMON KEY. Roney Eford was not interviewed.
I agree that 2003 wins. But...
Miller was at the top of college basketball in assists and Mac led the country in blocks.
Tony miller stops Diener from scoring. And Merritt cannot stop Damon Key. Makes it a closer game.
Yep that was a great defensive team. And damon key was basically removed from the sweet 16 game
I'll take KO over TC...
And '94 had Fr. Kelly in his prime
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 07, 2017, 08:09:29 AM
They did, in the round of 32 lol
The entire MU/UK game from 94 is on YouTube if you want to check it out.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Well that's the obvious answer to the question that wasn't asked and has nothing to do with the 94 or 2003 team.
Well aren't you a pleasant human being.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 06, 2017, 10:30:15 AM
I was listening to the Marquette basketball hour where Homer was interviewing Jimmy Mac, Roney Efford and Tony Miller. Homer stated that for years he's felt that the 94 sweet 16 team was actually better than the 2003 Final Four team. To me that seems absurd, but maybe some of the older guys can validate that?
No, but the 74 team was definitely better than the 77 team.
I stumbled across the 1994 Sweet 16 game against Duke on YouTube a while back and it made for interesting viewing. It's amazing how little I remember of that game (must say a lot about my college years).
A couple of observations:
-- It's too bad that Damon Key got into early foul trouble.
-- No MU team since then has been better. Just watching the game I couldn't help but think that on a good day, the 1993-94 team was a national title contender (great size, excellent point guard, good shooters).
-- It reminded me how much I hate the bat-sh** crazy substitution patterns that MU has employed in recent years.
Quote from: Marqevans on February 07, 2017, 08:47:34 PM
No, but the 74 team was definitely better than the 77 team.
The 1977 team was one game better.
Or at least two technical fouls better