Gtown with a 21 point lead well into second half
Good thing we won last night, then. Creighton' s missing Mo.
St John's about to knock off Providence at the Dunk.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 25, 2017, 07:39:32 PM
St John's about to knock off Providence at the Dunk.
Actually pretty exciting game, except for all the fouls.
Ponds/Lovett going to be a handful.
Best part of game was Providence's uniforms, throwbacks from the 80's. Wish MU would do that one game.
Also, if Creighton loses tonight Marquette will move into 3rd place in the Beast.
Why is that a shoot? Second place is there for the taking and Marquette is embarking on a very juicy next five games. I'm happy when all the teams around us lose.
Diminishes quality of our win
that win wont look as good as it did basically. Granted, if we finish top 4/5 it wont matter whether the win vs Creighton looked "good" or not.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on January 25, 2017, 07:45:09 PM
Why is that a shoot? Second place is there for the taking and Marquette is embarking on a very juicy next five games. I'm happy when all the teams around us lose.
There's also something to be said for getting at least five, maybe 6 Big East teams into the tournament. Georgetown is going nowhere, and I wouldn't guarantee Creighton is in if they keep falling.
Honestly feeling awful for Creighton. possible final four team destroyed by an ACL. they'll fall from the ranks and possibly out of the tourney. blowout loss to shittown?? wow was mo that good. ugh anyways. very sad to see. looks like the big east is down to one maybe two eletes
Creighton already has 18 wins and they will win more in the Beast. NCAA probabilities had them 100% in yesterday. They will go -unless they pretty much lose out, and that won't happen.
Quote from: real chili 83 on January 25, 2017, 07:46:06 PM
Diminishes quality of our win
Not really. Marquette winning any road game is quality that won't diminish.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 25, 2017, 07:47:26 PM
that win wont look as good as it did basically. Granted, if we finish top 4/5 it wont matter whether the win vs Creighton looked "good" or not.
Sure it will. Won a game against an NCAA team in their home building. Always looks good.
Quote from: MUFlutieEffect on January 25, 2017, 07:54:03 PM
There's also something to be said for getting at least five, maybe 6 Big East teams into the tournament. Georgetown is going nowhere, and I wouldn't guarantee Creighton is in if they keep falling.
The conference won the National Championship 10 months ago. It's reputation is sterling. If these teams around us lose and Marquette wins to finish second I don't care if the league "only" gets four teams as long as we're included.
4 bids Villianova, Butler,MU and Xavier
5th bid between Creighton & Seton Hall
MU sweep of Providence, St. John's and Georgetown elimiates those teams.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 25, 2017, 08:03:14 PM
Honestly feeling awful for Creighton. possible final four team destroyed by an ACL. they'll fall from the ranks and possibly out of the tourney. blowout loss to craptown?? wow was mo that good. ugh anyways. very sad to see. looks like the big east is down to one maybe two eletes
+1
I think it's best for Creighton to finish strong. Makes MU's win look better (i.e., helps get MU off the bubble), secures a bid for fellow BE team (since GTown ain't makin it). The latter gets MU tourney creds, to boot.
Guys - Creighton is fine. They've lost 3 games all year. So long as they finish 9-9 or better, they'll make the NCAAs.
Not if they finish from here 2-8, which would make them 2-10 without Watson. You have to conisder that many people believe the Big East to be the toughest conference, which means Creighton is going to struggle to win a lot of games from here.
Quote from: bilsu on January 25, 2017, 10:12:55 PM
Not if they finish from here 2-8, which would make them 2-10 without Watson. You have to conisder that many people believe the Big East to be the toughest conference, which means Creighton is going to struggle to win a lot of games from here.
So people say the Big East is the toughest conference therefore Creighton is going to collapse?
Just like when Butler looked like it might lose to DePaul, I fail to see how this is (and that would've been) a bad thing. Had Butler lost to DePaul that'd give them losses to both St. John's and DePaul this year. If we beat them at home (not sold we will) and take care of business this year against DePaul and St. John's, that gives us 2 games of cushion on them in the BE standings.
I'm no longer worried about getting into the NCAA Tournament. If we don't get there that's on us. If we can't get 5 wins out of at DePaul and Georgetown, home and away against St. John's, Providence, and Xavier, and home against Butler and Creighton then we don't deserve to be dancing.
I want a top 2 finish in the BE. Butler losing to DePaul would've been huge for that. Nova losing to DePaul would've been huge for that. Creighton losing to Georgetown is huge for that.
Creighton gonna be fine, not top 10 fine but they will get it together. Foster is really good, patton and the others are good too. Wins on the road are hard in the BE. Yall sound like u did after we got beat by nova at nova
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 25, 2017, 11:50:41 PM
Creighton gonna be fine, not top 10 fine but they will get it together. Foster is really good, patton and the others are good too. Wins on the road are hard in the BE. Yall sound like u did after we got beat by nova at nova
Are you sure? Fischer absolutely dominated Patton. In your world he can't be good then.
And...what? You're comparing a loss at Villanova, you know, #1 in the country and defending National Champion Villanova, those guys, to a loss at...1-6 in the Big East Georgetown? Good comparison there.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 26, 2017, 12:16:37 AM
Are you sure? Fischer absolutely dominated Patton. In your world he can't be good then.
And...what? You're comparing a loss at Villanova, you know, #1 in the country and defending National Champion Villanova, those guys, to a loss at...1-6 in the Big East Georgetown? Good comparison there.
Patton hardly played against MU. If u wanna say luke is better than patton, dueto a couple shot fakes than fine.
Creighton is fine people. They have 2 against DePaul and plenty of winnable home games.
Lock. ::)
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 26, 2017, 06:12:52 AM
Patton hardly played against MU. If u wanna say luke is better than patton, dueto a couple shot fakes than fine.
Luke was responsible for Patton being in foul trouble.
This proves one thing. No game in the conference is going to be an easy win. To assume we're going to win "easy" games or being in the tournament is wishful thinking. Let't take them one at a time. When we actually have 10 or 11 wins then we can talk NCAA.
The better we finish the better the seeding in the BE tournament.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 25, 2017, 11:23:25 PM
Just like when Butler looked like it might lose to DePaul, I fail to see how this is (and that would've been) a bad thing. Had Butler lost to DePaul that'd give them losses to both St. John's and DePaul this year. If we beat them at home (not sold we will) and take care of business this year against DePaul and St. John's, that gives us 2 games of cushion on them in the BE standings.
I'm no longer worried about getting into the NCAA Tournament. If we don't get there that's on us. If we can't get 5 wins out of at DePaul and Georgetown, home and away against St. John's, Providence, and Xavier, and home against Butler and Creighton then we don't deserve to be dancing.
I want a top 2 finish in the BE. Butler losing to DePaul would've been huge for that. Nova losing to DePaul would've been huge for that. Creighton losing to Georgetown is huge for that.
You and I are thinking alike. Things have very much changed for Marquette over the last 10 days. A cliche would say "the breaks" are going our way and that would necessitate a second look at possibilities.
Butler is truly finding a way to win but it seems built on cards. This doesn't look like a 14 win team. Wouldn't be a stretch to see them go 5-4 in their back half. Combine that with the Jays still needing to find a way to win without Watson and MU could very well find themselves surging higher then anyone could have hoped for back in October.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 25, 2017, 08:03:14 PM
Honestly feeling awful for Creighton. possible final four team destroyed by an ACL. they'll fall from the ranks and possibly out of the tourney. blowout loss to craptown?? wow was mo that good. ugh anyways. very sad to see. looks like the big east is down to one maybe two eletes
It's Marquette 2009 all over again... only our injury wasn't this early in the regular season. Creighton may not be an odds-on FF team any longer, but they still have time to right the ship and make a deep run into March. We didn't have that luxury.
Creighton is going to have some problems the rest of the year. Reminds me of when Dominic James got hurt his senior year. We had a really good team with a lot of good players, but without the point guard we were disjointed on offense. Creighton has time to get it figured out, but they don't have anyone that can get to the lane consistently which means they will struggle to find open shots.
Creighton has time to figure it out, but also won't have Watson able to rejoin the team in March (as James did, albeit to questionable effectiveness).
I know I'm too dumb on this stuff, and there probably isn't a short answer, but for RPI, does it hurt a team like MU when a team below them beats a team above them? E.g. if MU sweeps DePaul and splits with Butler, does it hurt our RPI if Butler drops a game to DePaul?
Quote from: MUBurrow on January 26, 2017, 11:22:26 AM
I know I'm too dumb on this stuff, and there probably isn't a short answer, but for RPI, does it hurt a team like MU when a team below them beats a team above them? E.g. if MU sweeps DePaul and splits with Butler, does it hurt our RPI if Butler drops a game to DePaul?
Most of conference play is fairly irrelevant as far as who wins. At the end of the season, all the Big East teams will play each other home and away, and there will be a total of 90 wins and 90 losses. Because pretty much everyone will have a winning overall record (at the moment only SJU and DePaul have losing records on the season) these games will help the outcome as you continue to play opponents with good records, but who wins and loses is fairly insignificant.
The bulk of what matters in RPI is what happens in November and December, then the rest of the season boosts that up (or drains it in a weak conference). That's why teams like Green Bay can be top-10 RPI teams early in the season but will always fall back in the pack by March.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 26, 2017, 06:12:52 AM
Patton hardly played against MU. If u wanna say luke is better than patton, dueto a couple shot fakes than fine.
Let's say things were reversed. Let's say Patton played great in that game, got Luke in foul trouble and ended up having a dominant performance while Luke didn't.
What would you say if one of your fellow Scoopers countered with:
"Luke hardly played against CU. If u wanna say patton is better than luke, dueto a couple shot fakes than fine"?
Of course, most Scoopers graduated college and can write more legibly than that, but you get my point.
Quote from: LAZER on January 25, 2017, 11:14:29 PM
So people say the Big East is the toughest conference therefore Creighton is going to collapse?
Maybe not stated well, but every Big East game is tough to some extent. My view of Creighton is that they are now not quite as good as last year's NIT team. They already lost home games to Villanova and MU, so they are likely to lose at those two away games. I am not sure about the rest of their schedule, but I see them struggling. I also believe Seton Hall is going to struggle. To me they are fighting for the 5th bid. The Big East could get 6 bids, which would bode well for both of them.
Quote from: MU82 on January 26, 2017, 01:08:04 PM
Let's say things were reversed. Let's say Patton played great in that game, got Luke in foul trouble and ended up having a dominant performance while Luke didn't.
What would you say if one of your fellow Scoopers countered with: "Luke hardly played against CU. If u wanna say patton is better than luke, dueto a couple shot fakes than fine"?
Of course, most Scoopers graduated college and can write more legibly than that, but you get my point.
Exactly agree i tend to use a body of work, the other poster chose to use one game. We r in agreement.
Quote from: bilsu on January 26, 2017, 01:23:16 PM
Maybe not stated well, but every Big East game is tough to some extent. My view of Creighton is that they are now not quite as good as last year's NIT team. They already lost home games to Villanova and MU, so they are likely to lose at those two away games. I am not sure about the rest of their schedule, but I see them struggling. I also believe Seton Hall is going to struggle. To me they are fighting for the 5th bid. The Big East could get 6 bids, which would bode well for both of them.
I think Creighton still finishes top 4 in the Big East, too much talent on that team for them not to. There schedule isn't quite as favorable as ours but they still play DePaul twice, St Johns, Providence and Georgetown at home.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 26, 2017, 01:02:10 PM
Most of conference play is fairly irrelevant as far as who wins. At the end of the season, all the Big East teams will play each other home and away, and there will be a total of 90 wins and 90 losses. Because pretty much everyone will have a winning overall record (at the moment only SJU and DePaul have losing records on the season) these games will help the outcome as you continue to play opponents with good records, but who wins and loses is fairly insignificant.
The bulk of what matters in RPI is what happens in November and December, then the rest of the season boosts that up (or drains it in a weak conference). That's why teams like Green Bay can be top-10 RPI teams early in the season but will always fall back in the pack by March.
A few minor additions:
There are minor preferences between the BE opponents as to how they affect our RPI, due to the common opponents that we have. Thus, this year, Georgetown, Butler, and Creighton will have a
slightly larger impact on our RPI than the rest of the league. But otherwise, as brew notes, it is largely irrelevant in the computation itself.
That said, where it might matter more is in where it lands certain teams on a larger scale. For better or worse, people still look at how teams fared versus buckets of RPI ranks: 1-50, 51-100, etc. Thus, where it might make some subjective difference is if a team is on the cusp of one of those tiers, it may be better for them to win to move up, even if that brings another team a little further down. For instance, Seton Hall is currently hovering in the low 40s. Since we went 1-1 against them, we probably had a preference for them to win against a team like Butler last night, since that would help solidify SH's position in the top 50 (and hopefully as a bubble team) and not drop Butler's rank too much. Alas, the Pirates let us down.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 26, 2017, 01:02:10 PM
Most of conference play is fairly irrelevant as far as who wins. At the end of the season, all the Big East teams will play each other home and away, and there will be a total of 90 wins and 90 losses. Because pretty much everyone will have a winning overall record (at the moment only SJU and DePaul have losing records on the season) these games will help the outcome as you continue to play opponents with good records, but who wins and loses is fairly insignificant.
The bulk of what matters in RPI is what happens in November and December, then the rest of the season boosts that up (or drains it in a weak conference). That's why teams like Green Bay can be top-10 RPI teams early in the season but will always fall back in the pack by March.
We really need to sticky an RPI explanation somewhere. Otherwise, I may need to break out the marbles again.