This game turns the corner for me on the entire tenure. I'm on board.
For the next few days.
Thought we had no chance. Couldn't be more pleased to be wrong.
It's the best win in Wojo's tenure. We played 39:45 minutes. We adjusted when they put on the 1-3-1. The offense system is legit and we played a fair amount of good D. Can we sustain? I hope so. But this is the first time I've felt really good about MUBB in a long time I wasn't one of the "we beat Vanderbilt, we're going to the final 4" posters. And I said in the "gaunlet" thread that if we picked up one of the 3 Wojo would get a few converts - I'm one.
I dont know if this is a turning the corner moment even....today the shots fell and the offense carried us to victory. What was the ppm allowed in the 2nd half?
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2017, 03:35:12 PM
This game turns the corner for me on the entire tenure. I'm on board.
As long as Fischer doesn't put up 2 points, 1 rebound, and foul trouble, MU can beat anyone in the BE.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 21, 2017, 03:46:06 PM
I dont know if this is a turning the corner moment even....today the shots fell and the offense carried us to victory. What was the ppm allowed in the 2nd half?
Agree. Hate to be Debbie Downer but that second half defense was awful. Our offense was absolutely fantastic. But to me turning the corner will be when we play well offensively and at least play decent defense to win a big game.
Still a great won though.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 21, 2017, 03:50:53 PM
Agree. Hate to be Debbie Downer but that second half defense was awful. Our offense was absolutely fantastic. But to me turning the corner will be when we play well offensively and at least play decent defense to win a big game.
Still a great won though.
Yep. By all means if the offense is always this good, and we win, sure why not. But it wont be. And I doubt Luke is gonna have as good a game as he did today. Just being realistic and its hard to expect all of a sudden he will start being a shot blocking machine.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 21, 2017, 03:50:53 PM
Agree. Hate to be Debbie Downer
Then don't. We dominated a top 10 team for 39 minutes, ffs. Give them some credit.
I think today was the angriest I've seen Wojo in his time at Marquette. The way he was jawing at Howard late in the second half and giving Dwayne a piece of his mind was a sign something is changing.
Wojo planned well and the team, for the most part, executed.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 21, 2017, 03:55:06 PM
Then don't. We dominated a top 10 team for 39 minutes, ffs. Give them some credit.
Question was about turning the corner. Great win but not sure this was the turning the corner moment.
If we could just improve a little bit more defensively we are going to be very good.
I'm glad to see a convert. This game did feel like a corner turned. Personally, I thought that 3-5 in our first 8 meant we were likely going to the NCAA Tournament. I never dreamed it'd be 4-4. With 5 more against the bottom 3 and 4 home games against top-6 teams, we will have chances to get wins. Anyone thinking 5th or 6th and sneaking in with a 10-8 conference record (which I was) might be selling this team short.
This is never going to be a great defensive team. As others have noted, what killed us in the Pitt, Butler (and to a lesser extent SH) collapses was that we stopped scoring. We didn't do that today, we kept scoring even when they started to get hot/we broke down defensively. Yes we won't always shoot this well, but with 6/7 legitimate scoring threats, at basically every position, and an offensive system that really looked sharp, there's no reason we shouldn't compete - even when we're giving up points.
Team track meet.
Eye test says we are clearly a tourney team(seriously look at some of the garbage out there).
Can we close out games to make that a reality???
Hope so.
Great win no doubt, but again poor defense in the second half. We won today, but won't win many giving up 50+ in a half
MU has played very good 5 of the last six halves ... All of Depaul, first half of Butler and all of Creighton. Keep this up and we will be dancing.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 21, 2017, 04:04:18 PM
I'm glad to see a convert. This game did feel like a corner turned. Personally, I thought that 3-5 in our first 8 meant we were likely going to the NCAA Tournament. I never dreamed it'd be 4-4. With 5 more against the bottom 3 and 4 home games against top-6 teams, we will have chances to get wins. Anyone thinking 5th or 6th and sneaking in with a 10-8 conference record (which I was) might be selling this team short.
Yeah, I have no doubt we'll lose a boneheaded one, and probably give up one or two more we could have one (against the top 6) - but I think with this win, even if Creighton slips a bit now going forward, a NCAA bid is very much a destiny we control.
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2017, 04:08:02 PM
Yeah, I have no doubt we'll lose a boneheaded one, and probably give up one or two more we could have one (against the top 6) - but I think with this win, even if Creighton slips a bit now going forward, a NCAA bid is very much a destiny we control.
We did out boneheaded games ... Pitt and Butler. This gives us one back
Quote from: Yukon Cornelius on January 21, 2017, 04:12:03 PM
We did out boneheaded games ... Pitt and Butler. This gives us one back
Hope so!
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 21, 2017, 04:04:18 PM
I'm glad to see a convert. This game did feel like a corner turned. Personally, I thought that 3-5 in our first 8 meant we were likely going to the NCAA Tournament. I never dreamed it'd be 4-4. With 5 more against the bottom 3 and 4 home games against top-6 teams, we will have chances to get wins. Anyone thinking 5th or 6th and sneaking in with a 10-8 conference record (which I was) might be selling this team short.
Why can't it be 5-3 in the first eight? ;D
Earlier this season a lot of people were saying we didn't have the horses to be an NCAA team. There is no question we have the horses. Really important that we go at least 7-1 against the likes of STJ, Prov, G'Town, and DePaul (that means 5-1 the rest of the way). If can do that we are sitting pretty as I think this team gets at least one more win against the top teams in the conference.
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2017, 04:05:01 PM
This is never going to be a great defensive team. As others have noted, what killed us in the Pitt, Butler (and to a lesser extent SH) collapses was that we stopped scoring. We didn't do that today, we kept scoring even when they started to get hot/we broke down defensively. Yes we won't always shoot this well, but with 6/7 legitimate scoring threats, at basically every position, and an offensive system that really looked sharp, there's no reason we shouldn't compete - even when we're giving up points.
Team track meet.
Except we didn't score a field goal that last 5 mins.....
Not being negative - thats just what happened.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 21, 2017, 04:21:10 PM
Why can't it be 5-3 in the first eight? ;D
Earlier this season a lot of people were saying we didn't have the horses to be an NCAA team. There is no question we have the horses. Really important that we go at least 7-1 against the likes of STJ, Prov, G'Town, and DePaul (that means 5-1 the rest of the way). If can do that we are sitting pretty as I think this team gets at least one more win against the top teams in the conference.
If we get to 5-3, we have a legitimate chance to not just finish in the top-2 in the conference, but make a run at Nova for the league title. We will have 5 of our 6 toughest games behind us, a split with the best team, 60% of our remaining games against 4 teams with a combined 8-20 conference record (and 6 of those 8 wins against each other), and 3 of the other 4 games at home.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 21, 2017, 03:50:53 PM
Agree. Hate to be Debbie Downer but that second half defense was awful. Our offense was absolutely fantastic. But to me turning the corner will be when we play well offensively and at least play decent defense to win a big game.
Still a great won though.
solid win. HC has to finish around the rim. The game never should have gotten close.
You should have converted earlier. Wojo hasn't gotten any quality front court players to Marquette yet. Heldt looks like a promising role player. He's pulled a complete 180 on 2 years in terms of shooting. He's landed the best in-state talent every year and has the two best shooting freshman in conference. He's also convinced two of the top scoring grad transfers to MU in his first two years. Once Eke, John and Froling get on the floor you'll see the toughness they're lacking.
I'll also disagree on the scoring part for losing games down stretch. Scoring goes in spurts when you're a shooting team. They need to get stops, which is why they'll continue to lose games to teams they shouldn't. Just need to get 10 wins.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 21, 2017, 04:27:17 PM
Except we didn't score a field goal that last 5 mins.....
Not being negative - thats just what happened.
I have to go back and look but didn't they start fouling us? Honestly, I only remember a single poor play and that was Hani's turnover.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 21, 2017, 04:00:03 PM
I think today was the angriest I've seen Wojo in his time at Marquette. The way he was jawing at Howard late in the second half and giving Dwayne a piece of his mind was a sign something is changing.
Wojo planned well and the team, for the most part, executed.
Wojo was working his tail off. Had they blew this one it would have been an epic collapse and Wojo knew it. They needed this win to prove to themselves they can close out a game on the road.
Quote from: GE911 on January 21, 2017, 04:06:25 PM
Great win no doubt, but again poor defense in the second half. We won today, but won't win many giving up 50+ in a half
Depends - if we're scoring 50+, we have a shot....
And for those still pining for Shaka...Texas is 7-12, 1-6 in conference
We now have some momentum. Villanova is going down!
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2017, 03:35:12 PM
This game turns the corner for me on the entire tenure. I'm on board.
We lose to Nova on Tuesday and you and most of the rest of the shoppers will be calling for Wpjo's head
Quote from: willie warrior on January 21, 2017, 05:26:18 PM
We now have some momentum. Villanova is going down!
I really hate it when we start counting chickens before they are in the coop.
Quote from: nyg on January 21, 2017, 03:48:19 PM
As long as Fischer doesn't put up 2 points, 1 rebound, and foul trouble, MU can beat anyone in the BE.
Plus Tax
I am psyched and totally appreciate the effort and result. It was an incredible win against a top team in a difficult environment. And, it was an important bounce back (and hold on) from Monday's debacle at Butler. Lots to build on from here.
But, it was not Creighton at their best, and it was not the team that was ranked #7 at the beginning of the week. It was a team that is adjusting to losing their all-important PG, and it clearly impacted the play of their star freshman (it seems that Patton was trying to do too much in Watson's absence, and couldn't cope with Fischer).
I'm very optimistic, but not yet (and maybe never, until it happens) convinced that this team will make the tourney.
Quote from: mug644 on January 21, 2017, 10:54:21 PM
I am psyched and totally appreciate the effort and result. It was an incredible win against a top team in a difficult environment. And, it was an important bounce back (and hold on) from Monday's debacle at Butler. Lots to build on from here.
But, it was not Creighton at their best, and it was not the team that was ranked #7 at the beginning of the week. It was a team that is adjusting to losing their all-important PG, and it clearly impacted the play of their star freshman (it seems that Patton was trying to do too much in Watson's absence, and couldn't cope with Fischer).
I'm very optimistic, but not yet (and maybe never, until it happens) convinced that this team will make the tourney.
Still the same Watson-less Creighton team that beat ranked Xavier on the road less than a week ago. This was a well-coached and well-executed game. Give credit where it's due, dude.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on January 21, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
Still the same Watson-less Creighton team that beat ranked Xavier on the road less than a week ago. This was a well-coached and well-executed game. Give credit where it's due, dude.
I think I'm giving credit to MU, and they deserve it. It was, as you say, a well-coached and well-executed game.
Still, while Creighton beat Xavier in the game that Watson was hurt (and played nearly a quarter of the game), we can't honesty say that the team we beat is the team that earned a #7 ranking.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Really should have started with this:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKHDrGuTy4mWiUo/giphy.gif)
Creighton is still going to be a top 20 team w or w out Watson - Mintz will be solid for them. They have a lot of weapons. Yes we were a bit lucky to get them in this game while they're adjusting, but we've had enough bad luck over the past year that maybe we were due. This is a solid solid win and - we've had the ability to win a game like this for a while - but have blown it for all sorts of reasons - really really encouraging to see us put it all together and to hang tough in the 2nd half even when the tide turned against us. I'm happy to give credit where credit is due - this was a great game by both the coach and players (that being said, I AM glad the game didn't go on another 5 minutes...)
Quote from: mug644 on January 21, 2017, 10:54:21 PM
I am psyched and totally appreciate the effort and result. It was an incredible win against a top team in a difficult environment. And, it was an important bounce back (and hold on) from Monday's debacle at Butler. Lots to build on from here.
But, it was not Creighton at their best, and it was not the team that was ranked #7 at the beginning of the week. It was a team that is adjusting to losing their all-important PG, and it clearly impacted the play of their star freshman (it seems that Patton was trying to do too much in Watson's absence, and couldn't cope with Fischer).
I'm very optimistic, but not yet (and maybe never, until it happens) convinced that this team will make the tourney.
I love this. Every loss = fire wojo cause the team sucks. Every win = the opponent was overrated, no credit to wojo.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 22, 2017, 09:40:35 AM
I love this. Every loss = fire wojo cause the team sucks. Every win = the opponent was overrated, no credit to wojo.
Which seems to equate to I don't like Wojo's Coaching!
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 22, 2017, 09:40:35 AM
I love this. Every loss = fire wojo cause the team sucks. Every win = the opponent was overrated, no credit to wojo.
And you'll notice those same people were the ones trumping VPI's win against Duke. They didn't seem to have similar qualms over the fact that Duke was playing without Allen...and was a win at home.
Even without Watson that was a top 25 win on the road. Great win.
I don't think it's out of the question that Creighton can be a top 15-20 team still. They have a lot of talent. That's a really tough place to win.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 22, 2017, 09:40:35 AM
I love this. Every loss = fire wojo cause the team sucks. Every win = the opponent was overrated, no credit to wojo.
Wait, what? Did I imply that Creighton was overrated at #7? I certainly didn't mean to. Did I imply that I don't give Wojo credit? I didn't mean to.
My only point is that Creighton was playing it's first (full) game without their star PG. They were a different team than they were less than a week ago. Just like MU was a different team when Dom went down.
We caught them at a vulnerable time, Wojo had a solid game plan and made some very good in-game adjustments, and we played well and hit shots. Victory, and that's a good thing.
I really thought that I was doing nothing but reaffirming the obvious, and it surprises me that I came off as extreme.
Northwestern just won their first game in Columbus since 1977. Guess what else happened in 1977? ITS HAPPENING! :P
Not sure that there is causality there
We're a bubble team. Hoping we can find a way to the tourney. No change in thinking since day one of the season.
...that we will win?
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 22, 2017, 02:11:09 PM
Northwestern just won their first game in Columbus since 1977. Guess what else happened in 1977? ITS HAPPENING! :P
The Big Ten is way down this year. It shouldn't be shocking if NU gets in......and as an MU fan I don't care if they do.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 22, 2017, 03:14:34 PM
The Big Ten is way down this year. It shouldn't be shocking if NU gets in......and as an MU fan I don't care if they do.
Normally I would be completely cheering for Northwestern to get their first ticket to the Dance. Problem is we are a bubble team like them. Until we are solidly in, it will be hard to cheer for them even though I really want to.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 22, 2017, 03:14:34 PM
The Big Ten is way down this year. It shouldn't be shocking if NU gets in......and as an MU fan I don't care if they do.
Northwestern is in great shape. Would have to really p33 down the leg to not make it. Get to 10-8 and they're fine.. 5-2 now, with several gimmes on the sked still. I don't think they're our concern/competition from a bubble perspective.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 22, 2017, 03:15:48 PM
Normally I would be completely cheering for Northwestern to get their first ticket to the Dance. Problem is we are a bubble team like them. Until we are solidly in, it will be hard to cheer for them even though I really want to.
Northwestern is likely a solid in this year (34 in RPI), not a bubble team. Ohio State is bad, essentially comparable to Georgetown who is 2nd to last in our conference.
Quote from: forgetful on January 22, 2017, 03:21:19 PM
Northwestern is likely a solid in this year (34 in RPI), not a bubble team. Ohio State is bad, essentially comparable to Georgetown who is 2nd to last in our conference.
As long as that stays that is great. Easy to cheer for the Wildcats.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 22, 2017, 03:01:12 PM
We're a bubble team. Hoping we can find a way to the tourney. No change in thinking since day one of the season.
Definitely still a bubble team, but definitely on the safe side of it today. Hard to say yesterday's game doesn't change the thinking. We still need to get to 10 wins, but obviously that win makes it easier, and erases any doubt if being left out at 10-8. I also think it makes getting in at 9-9 a possibility, albeit we'd still need help. But the bubble, like most years, is going to be weak, and this team has ZERO bad losses. We're in pretty good shape, IMO.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 22, 2017, 03:38:14 PM
Definitely still a bubble team, but definitely on the safe side of it today. Hard to say yesterday's game doesn't change the thinking. We still need to get to 10 wins, but obviously that win makes it easier, and erases any doubt if being left out at 10-8. I also think it makes getting in at 9-9 a possibility, albeit we'd still need help. But the bubble, like most years, is going to be weak, and this team has ZERO bad losses. We're in pretty good shape, IMO.
0 games vs. RPI 101-200; 7-0 vs. 201+.. with 3 of them against teams in the 300's.. Western Carolina, SIUE, Howard, St. Francis, etc.. all at risk of coming in a bit worse than preseason projections... Seton Hall & Georgia may fall out of top 50 RPI by year end.. so, Creighton is our only Top 50 win to date, potentially.. putting us at 1-5 vs. top 50 RPI..
Absolutely a reasonable path to the tourney.. but far too early to be feeling good for me.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 22, 2017, 03:49:53 PM
0 games vs. RPI 101-200; 7-0 vs. 201+.. with 3 of them against teams in the 300's.. Western Carolina, SIUE, Howard, St. Francis, etc.. all at risk of coming in a bit worse than preseason projections... Seton Hall & Georgia may fall out of top 50 RPI by year end.. so, Creighton is our only Top 50 win to date, potentially.. putting us at 1-5 vs. top 50 RPI..
Absolutely a reasonable path to the tourney.. but far too early to be feeling good for me.
Your stats are wrong. We are 3-5 against the RPI top 50, wins listed only:
Georgia (RPI: 44)
Seton Hall (RPI: 36)
Creighton (RPI: 12)
Two of those were on the road.
Quote from: forgetful on January 22, 2017, 04:03:41 PM
Your stats are wrong. We are 3-5 against the RPI top 50, wins listed only:
Georgia (RPI: 44)
Seton Hall (RPI: 36)
Creighton (RPI: 12)
Two of those were on the road.
No. My stats are exactly correct. Read again, bud... "Seton Hall & Georgia may fall out of top 50 RPI by year end.. so, Creighton is our only Top 50 win to date, potentially.."
What a team's RPI is today ain't gonna matter come Selection Sunday, bud. I acknowledged Seton Hall & Georgia are in the top 50 today.. but, they both project to fall out -- to ignore that would be stupid.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 22, 2017, 03:49:53 PM
0 games vs. RPI 101-200; 7-0 vs. 201+.. with 3 of them against teams in the 300's.. Western Carolina, SIUE, Howard, St. Francis, etc.. all at risk of coming in a bit worse than preseason projections... Seton Hall & Georgia may fall out of top 50 RPI by year end.. so, Creighton is our only Top 50 win to date, potentially.. putting us at 1-5 vs. top 50 RPI..
Absolutely a reasonable path to the tourney.. but far too early to be feeling good for me.
Fair enough, but those are still solid wins. And if we get to 10 in BE we're gonna get some more decent wins. Compare that to other bubble teams and we look pretty good.
Let's put it this way - we're in exponentially better shape than we were at noon yesterday.
Northwestern projected at 23-8 per KenPom. They aint a bubble team if they keep that up.
Even if they were, if we play well down the stretch it shouldnt matter.
........with a signature win over Dayton at home.
Lot of opportunities for your team still to come in late January and February though.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 22, 2017, 04:07:39 PM
No. My stats are exactly correct. Read again, bud... "Seton Hall & Georgia may fall out of top 50 RPI by year end.. so, Creighton is our only Top 50 win to date, potentially.."
What a team's RPI is today ain't gonna matter come Selection Sunday, bud. I acknowledged Seton Hall & Georgia are in the top 50 today.. but, they both project to fall out -- to ignore that would be stupid.
Misread it, sorry, but saying "they may fall out" is meaningless.
Vanderbilt (RPI 58) "may rise up" so we might be 4-5 right now.
The projections I see for Seton Hall are to finish at 47, Georgia at 40. So both project to stay in the top 50.
The only thing we know for certain is right now we are 3-5 against the RPI top 50. Projecting anything at this point is meaningless, even more meaningless given your projections don't match the ones I see.
Quote from: forgetful on January 22, 2017, 05:28:24 PM
Misread it, sorry, but saying "they may fall out" is meaningless.
Vanderbilt (RPI 58) "may rise up" so we might be 4-5 right now.
The projections I see for Seton Hall are to finish at 47, Georgia at 40. So both project to stay in the top 50.
The only thing we know for certain is right now we are 3-5 against the RPI top 50. Projecting anything at this point is meaningless, even more meaningless given your projections don't match the ones I see.
You're dumb when it comes to this stuff, bud.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 22, 2017, 05:36:37 PM
You're dumb when it comes to this stuff, bud.
There is no being "smart" or "dumb" on statistical projections at this point. Being "smart" or "dumb" can only be ascertained once the results are known. Then how statistical weights were applied can be evaluated as "dumb/smart".
Currently, there is not sufficient data to make an accurate projection at the end of the season.
The only accurate thing to do is to state what is currently known and evaluate the rest at the end of the season.
Quote from: forgetful on January 22, 2017, 05:46:02 PM
There is no being "smart" or "dumb" on statistical projections at this point. Being "smart" or "dumb" can only be ascertained once the results are known. Then how statistical weights were applied can be evaluated as "dumb/smart".
Currently, there is not sufficient data to make an accurate projection at the end of the season.
The only accurate thing to do is to state what is currently known and evaluate the rest at the end of the season.
That's absurd and ridiculous. So, so very wrong.
Quote from: tower912 on January 22, 2017, 02:14:50 PM
Not sure that there is causality there
It's attitudes like that the will lose us the NC. Thanks Tower!
Well that was nice to wake up to. Glad I got on board after Creighton. :P
Sorry your predictions aren't working out this year Tower. ;)