Just want to be fair. As critical as I and some have been here about his defense. That offense was literally spectacular at times yesterday. U watch that game and even if they had missed some of.those 3s. The passing was great and at times making the extra pass for better shots. Very nice...
Team is gelling offensively. A sign of good coaching.
The team's three best shooters, both in terms of 3FG% and EFG%, made their debut in Marquette uniforms this year. That helps tremendously. He's getting the type of players he wants.
Playing unselfishly makes a lot of offenses look good. Playing selfishly makes a lot of offenses look bad. MU has generally been unselfish, with a few glaring exceptions. The ball movement is very good, though, IMO, not quite on the level of the 09-10 midget team. I have fond memories of watching defenders literally spinning in place trying to follow the drives and dishes that year. As long as they keep making the extra pass to the wide open shooter as part of the offense, the offense will be fine.
I truly believe that JJJ is the most selfish player on this team. He hardly ever makes the extra pass, never passes up an open 3 and his drives to the rim have been weaker and weaker.
I think we are better off with him on the bench, even though he stuffs the stat sheet. Make me think otherwise?
Quote from: tower912 on January 15, 2017, 10:40:47 AM
Playing unselfishly makes a lot of offenses look good. Playing selfishly makes a lot of offenses look bad. MU has generally been unselfish, with a few glaring exceptions. The ball movement is very good, though, IMO, not quite on the level of the 09-10 midget team. I have fond memories of watching defenders literally spinning in place trying to follow the drives and dishes that year. As long as they keep making the extra pass to the wide open shooter as part of the offense, the offense will be fine.
starting to buy in to wojo. I see improvements on d. They r slow but obvious. The offense being willing to move the ball and late into the clock can only help.
They need to steal one or two from the top 4 and the tournament is realistic. But those wins will be tuff to come by.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:01:08 AM
I truly believe that JJJ is the most selfish player on this team. He hardly ever makes the extra pass, never passes up an open 3 and his drives to the rim have been weaker and weaker.
I think we are better off with him on the bench, even though he stuffs the stat sheet. Make me think otherwise?
I can see where people would think that. Getting college kids to not only buy in but understand what is needed is tuff at times. It's a split second decision to jump stop and pass vs go all the way. Not everyone can grasp it. Not sure if it's selfish or he is just not suited to it....
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on January 15, 2017, 11:05:25 AM
I can see where people would think that. Getting college kids to not only buy in but understand what is needed is tuff at times. It's a split second decision to jump stop and pass vs go all the way. Not everyone can grasp it. Not sure if it's selfish or he is just not suited to it....
Maybe you are right... maybe it is isn't selfish, maybe he just doesn't get it. Either way, I'm starting to like us more and more with him on the bench.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:07:24 AM
Maybe you are right... maybe it is isn't selfish, maybe he just doesn't get it. Either way, I'm starting to like us more and more with him on the bench.
I agree. He takes a lot of chances on d too. Leaves mu 4 v 5 and an un challenged wing heading straight at luke.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:01:08 AM
I truly believe that JJJ is the most selfish player on this team. He hardly ever makes the extra pass, never passes up an open 3 and his drives to the rim have been weaker and weaker.
I think we are better off with him on the bench, even though he stuffs the stat sheet. Make me think otherwise?
If we want to stick with facts, here's one for you to consider: JjJ's assist rate is the highest of anyone on the entire roster.
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on January 15, 2017, 11:09:19 AM
I agree. He takes a lot of chances on d too. Leaves mu 4 v 5 and an un challenged wing heading straight at luke.
what am i missing - he's 11th in the nation in steals and 2nd on the team in APG (not including Traci C's). Seems like he has a LOT of positive contributions on the floor.
Is it just perception of the viewer or is there something concrete to point at?
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 15, 2017, 11:13:38 AM
If we want to stick with facts, here's one for you to consider: JjJ's assist rate is the highest of anyone on the entire roster.
Facts on scoop? Please.
Besides the obvious assist rate statistic, even from an objective perspective its pretty easy to see that JJJ is the best passer on the team.
Quote from: naginiF on January 15, 2017, 11:16:58 AM
what am i missing - he's 11th in the nation in steals and 2nd on the team in APG (not including Traci C's). Seems like he has a LOT of positive contributions on the floor.
Is it just perception of the viewer or is there something concrete to point at?
in saw at least 3x yesterday when he went for a steal and missed. Leaving mu 4 v 5 on d. They all resulted in an easy basket or a foul. This happens a bunch in other games too.
There is no stat for that so no...
Quote from: naginiF on January 15, 2017, 11:16:58 AM
what am i missing - he's 11th in the nation in steals and 2nd on the team in APG (not including Traci C's). Seems like he has a LOT of positive contributions on the floor.
Is it just perception of the viewer or is there something concrete to point at?
Totally get 11th in the nation in steals but how many times does he gamble and miss?
2nd onf the team in APG... Everyone is below 3 APG so it's nothing to write home about...
All I'm saying is, and I understand that perhaps the stats say otherwise, our team is better with JJJ off the floor. Maybe it's not true. I think it is. I'd love to see Duane/Katin/Rowsey get more of JJJs minutes.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 15, 2017, 11:18:21 AM
Facts on scoop? Please.
Besides the obvious assist rate statistic, even from an objective perspective its pretty easy to see that JJJ is the best passer on the team.
Even from an
Objective perspective? So it's a concrete fact that he's the best passer on the team? No shot.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:23:41 AM
Even from an Objective perspective? So it's a concrete fact that he's the best passer on the team? No shot.
Subjective but semantics aside point remains the same. Just curious, how many games have you watched the past two years?
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on January 15, 2017, 11:20:10 AM
in saw at least 3x yesterday when he went for a steal and missed. Leaving mu 4 v 5 on d. They all resulted in an easy basket or a foul. This happens a bunch in other games too.
There is no status for that so no...
JjJ is leading the Big East in average steals per game, and he is crushing everyone else. He has 2.5, while the #2 person has 1.9. You aren't going to get that many steals if you don't occasionally take risks and miss a few.
While you are at it, why don't you talk about how much M2N sucks? After all, he missed 3 of his 3-point attempts yesterday.
Hating on jjj is dumb, he makes the occasional boneheaded play sure, but is a major positive overall
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 15, 2017, 11:30:47 AM
Subjective but semantics aside point remains the same. Just curious, how many games have you watched the past two years?
Probably every single game, barring a few non-con cupcakes.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:01:08 AM
I truly believe that JJJ is the most selfish player on this team. He hardly ever makes the extra pass, never passes up an open 3 and his drives to the rim have been weaker and weaker.
Wow! Shooting open threes? That should never happen. He should wait till someone comes out to contest the shot before he lets it fly.
The entire basis of MUs offense - any team for that matter - is to get open shots.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 15, 2017, 11:31:22 AM
JjJ is leading the Big East in average steals per game, and he is crushing everyone else. He has 2.5, while the #2 person has 1.9. You aren't going to get that many steals if you don't occasionally take risks and miss a few.
While you are at it, why don't you talk about how much M2N sucks? After all, he missed 3 of his 3-point attempts yesterday.
He's also crushing everybody else on MU with a whopping 2.5 turnovers/game, while the next is 1.6.
Quote from: brandx on January 15, 2017, 11:38:03 AM
Wow! Shooting open threes? That should never happen. He should wait till someone comes out to contest the shot before he lets it fly.
The entire basis of MUs offense - any team for that matter - is to get open shots.
JJJ shoots a lousy 32% from outside while shooting 50% overall... let's have him get some higher percentage shots, it's what I would like to see.
Quote from: LAMUfan on January 15, 2017, 11:32:30 AM
Hating on jjj is dumb, he makes the occasional boneheaded play sure, but is a major positive overall
JJJ is an interesting player, some days you love him, most you question what he is doing out there. I would say, coaching, has advised him he can not go left everytime.
But unfortunately he does and turnovers happen. Much like Cheatham, he has to make the extra pass, which as a senior he does not. Reinhardt lets the game flow to him, JJJ creates his own mistakes most of the time. I am positive he is not Wojo type player, way to in consistent. What concerns me about him, if the game is close,
he thinks he can be the man, he is not that for sure. He made 2 good shots against Hall in overtime, if he plays that way, MU could win a game or two against the elite
4.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:43:00 AM
He's also crushing everybody else on MU with a whopping 2.5 turnovers/game, while the next is 1.6.
That statistic is completely unrelated to both your original statement and my response.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 15, 2017, 11:48:05 AM
That statistic is completely unrelated to both your original statement and my response.
Fits perfectly with my original statement: "Better with him on the bench"
21 posts and 2/3 of them are dissing JJJ and the rest are "insider info" about Shaka. Tell me did JJJ steal your girl or something?
Quote from: warriorchick on January 15, 2017, 11:31:22 AM
JjJ is leading the Big East in average steals per game, and he is crushing everyone else. He has 2.5, while the #2 person has 1.9. You aren't going to get that many steals if you don't occasionally take risks and miss a few.
While you are at it, why don't you talk about how much M2N sucks? After all, he missed 3 of his 3-point attempts yesterday.
he hurts as least as much as he helps on d. 3 pt attempt is not related to these posts in the least.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 15, 2017, 12:01:59 PM
21 posts and 2/3 of them are dissing JJJ and the rest are "insider info" about Shaka. Tell me did JJJ steal your girl or something?
LOL! Stopped posting after that whole ordeal because if you challange scoop's majority opinion you have to deal with ad hominem attacks like this all the time. I think JJJ sucks, sue me! Might have to go back to lurking for a while.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 12:16:15 PM
LOL! Stopped posting after that whole ordeal because if you challange scoop's majority opinion you have to deal with ad hominem attacks like this all the time. I think JJJ sucks, sue me! Might have to go back to lurking for a while.
Well, you were "attacked" because you kept insisting that Shaka was on campus but that was never the case.
BTW, JJJ isn't great but he doesn't suck. I mean, who would you play in his place and why?
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 15, 2017, 12:24:22 PM
Well, you were "attacked" because you kept insisting that Shaka was on campus but that was never the case.
BTW, JJJ isn't great but he doesn't suck. I mean, who would you play in his place and why?
Shaka was on campus, but no one can prove either way now.
I'd love to see Duane (can shoot better, not a bad passer and plays better defense), Katin (can shoot better, probably ~same defense) and Rowsey (get Howard/Rowsey out there at the same time, move Haniif to 3) and see if you can't light it up from the 3pt line for a little.
Duane and Rowsey are the least viable of those options as it leaves Cheatham playing an unfamiliar role as a 3 guard and Katin seems to be reigning in his chucking, taking, and making, better shots.
I would love to run and gun with Rowsey/Howard/Cheatham though... that would be fun.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 11:01:08 AM
I truly believe that JJJ is the most selfish player on this team. He hardly ever makes the extra pass, never passes up an open 3 and his drives to the rim have been weaker and weaker.
I think we are better off with him on the bench, even though he stuffs the stat sheet. Make me think otherwise?
JJJ is definitely maddening at times
But this is so unbelievably wrong. Do you watch the games?
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
Shaka was on campus, but no one can prove either way now.
He was not. Continuing to insist otherwise makes you look dumb.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
I'd love to see Duane (can shoot better, not a bad passer and plays better defense), Katin (can shoot better, probably ~same defense) and Rowsey (get Howard/Rowsey out there at the same time, move Haniif to 3) and see if you can't light it up from the 3pt line for a little.
Duane and Rowsey are the least viable of those options as it leaves Cheatham playing an unfamiliar role as a 3 guard and Katin seems to be reigning in his chucking, taking, and making, better shots.
I would love to run and gun with Rowsey/Howard/Cheatham though... that would be fun.
Duane's minutes have been going up at the expense of JJJ's recently. He is a better defender. But he hasn't been a better shooter than JJJ for the last two seasons.
I think the concern with Rowsey and Howard on the floor at the same time is size defensively. Duane and JJJ give you more length.
Quote from: LAMUfan on January 15, 2017, 11:32:30 AM
Hating on jjj is dumb, he makes the occasional boneheaded play sure, but is a major positive overall
JJ is just like Luke he is who he is, it's up to Wojo to play them in spots where their Strengths and Weakness are most beneficial to us. And I think Wojo is doing a Good job at that.
JJ has frustrated the hell out of me for many reasons over his career, but he's absolutely instrumental to our success. He is a phenomenal passer, excellent driver, and one of the best in the country at creating turnovers. When we need a burst of energy, no one on the roster is as capable of stealing the ball and throwing down a monster dunk at the other end that brings the BC and team to life. He's an adequate three-point shooter and good at the line, so there's no real weakness in his scoring ability. While he doesn't go left, his pull-up gives him options off the drive that other players (Cheatham) simply do not have.
Is he the complete package? No. Is he a great man defender? No. Does he sometimes try to do a bit too much? Sure. But we would be a worse team without him. He is definitely more of a "Buzz player" and doesn't match Wojo's system as well as some others do, but he's also highly talented and someone we need on this roster. If we are going to make the NCAA Tournament and have any real success this year, he will be a big part of that.
Yesterday was only the 4th time this year he didn't score in double figures and also the 4th time he didn't have multiple steals. It was the 2nd time he didn't have multiple assists. On only 4 occasions has he not had at least 3 rebounds. On a nightly basis, you know that JJ is going to fill the stat sheet and will do numerous things to help us win. I'm very pleased with what he's developed into. He is maybe the best 4-year high school player Buzz ever recruited, with the only possible exception being Davante Gardner.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on January 15, 2017, 12:55:59 PM
JJ is just like Luke he is who he is, it's up to Wojo to play them in spots where their Strengths and Weakness are most beneficial to us. And I think Wojo is doing a Good job at that.
+1
I like having JJJ on the team. He is exasperating at times, but at times so are Rowsey, Haani, Luke, Heldt, Duane, Katin, etc. They are young'uns. They make mistakes sometimes.
On D, JJJ is a high-risk, high-reward guy. There were a couple of games this season where he turned momentum to MU for good thanks to a flurry of steals. When he misses, he does look bad and he often puts his teammates in bad predicaments.
On O, he is the best passer on the team and is the only guy who can consistently hit the pull-up J from the elbow. His whirling-dervish thing often gets him in trouble with offensive fouls or bad passes, but again, you live with it because he also can hit two big shots in OT in a game you desperately need to win. He shot 40%+ from 3PT last season so that has fallen off some this year, but not tragically so.
A net plus. Some games, a net major plus. A few games a net minus - as has been the case with pretty much every Warrior this season.
Quote from: MU82 on January 15, 2017, 09:56:43 PM
I like having JJJ on the team. He is exasperating at times, but at times so are Rowsey, Haani, Luke, Heldt, Duane, Katin, etc. They are young'uns. They make mistakes sometimes.
On D, JJJ is a high-risk, high-reward guy. There were a couple of games this season where he turned momentum to MU for good thanks to a flurry of steals. When he misses, he does look bad and he often puts his teammates in bad predicaments.
On O, he is the best passer on the team and is the only guy who can consistently hit the pull-up J from the elbow. His whirling-dervish thing often gets him in trouble with offensive fouls or bad passes, but again, you live with it because he also can hit two big shots in OT in a game you desperately need to win. He shot 40%+ from 3PT last season so that has fallen off some this year, but not tragically so.
A net plus. Some games, a net major plus. A few games a net minus - as has been the case with pretty much every Warrior this season.
I agree with this analysis.
The thing i like is we have options to jjj this year. He can be really good but he also makes many really poor decisions. The nice thing this year is everytime jjj does something really dumb duane or kation walk to the scorers table. The bench can be the best coach.
Over 4 years JJJ has improved more than I ever imagined. His 3 point shot is reliable, and his pull-up J is really good. he can really get up, and shoot over people. His D is high risk-high reward, but the payoff has been working so far. Cheatham is a more consistent defender, JJJ is a more steal oriented defender. If he was a junior, I'd be very much looking forward to his senior season.
Jjj is a real asset. Details in many posts above.
I just wish he'd get rid of that heads down drive to the right cradling the ball in his arm..."on a wing and a prayer" hoping the lane will be open.
I hate that turnover.....which it is more often than not. From that drive he is NOT a good passer.
Don't get me wrong, I love his drive to the right WHEN HE KEEPS HIS HEAD UP and knows his options after he commits.
That's my only fault with JJJ.
Quote from: MUBigDance on January 15, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Jjj is a real asset. Details in many posts above.
I just wish he'd get rid of that heads down drive to the right cradling the ball in his arm..."on a wing and a prayer" hoping the lane will be open.
I hate that turnover.....which it is more often than not. From that drive he is NOT a good passer.
Don't get me wrong, I love his drive to the right WHEN HE KEEPS HIS HEAD UP and knows his options after he commits.
That's my only fault with JJJ.
Very fair.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 15, 2017, 12:31:38 PMShaka was on campus, but no one can prove either way now.
This is false. Even the people saying done deal didn't claim this. Marquette reached out to Shaka, got positive feedback, then flew out to interview him in Richmond. He never came here.
The only coaches on campus during the process as I recall were Wojo, Brian Wardle, and Cuonzo Martin. Job was expected to go to Martin, but he didn't have a good interview, while Wojo knocked it out of the park.