MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Dr. Blackheart on January 14, 2017, 09:50:08 PM
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Or clowns...end of an era.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-ringling-bros-circus-shutting-down-20170114-story.html
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Makes the Blackhawks and Bulls schedule easier.
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What caused the bottom to drop out ... from the link
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In May of 2016, after a long and costly legal battle, the company removed the elephants from the shows and sent the animals to live on a conservation farm in Central Florida. The animals had been the symbol of the circus since Barnum brought an Asian elephant named Jumbo to America in 1882. In 2014, Feld Entertainment won $25.2 million in settlements from groups including the Humane Society of the United States, ending a 14-year fight over allegations that circus employees mistreated elephants.
By the time the elephants were removed, public opinion had shifted somewhat. Los Angeles prohibited the use of bull-hooks by elephant trainers and handlers, as did Oakland, California. The city of Asheville, North Carolina nixed wild or exotic animals from performing in the municipally owned, 7,600-seat U.S. Cellular Center.
Attendance has been dropping for 10 years, said Juliette Feld, but when the elephants left, there was a "dramatic drop" in ticket sales. Paradoxically, while many said they didn't want big animals to perform in circuses, many others refused to attend a circus without them.
"We know now that one of the major reasons people came to Ringling Bros. was getting to see elephants," she said. "We stand by that decision. We know it was the right decision. This was what audiences wanted to see and it definitely played a major role."
The Felds say their existing animals — lions, tigers, camels, donkeys, alpacas, kangaroos and llamas — will go to suitable homes. Juliette Feld says the company will continue operating the Center for Elephant Conservation.
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It's sad when we won't even allow animal abuse for our entertainment. :-\
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It's sad when we won't even allow animal abuse for our entertainment. :-\
yeah, you should check out natgeo sometime-the amount of animal on animal abuse is getting worse by the day. i mean to see those big bully lions gang up on the poor defenseless antelope, or the rams battering each other over the right to procreate with some female and she doesn't even look like she's giving permission. there was one show where i would have swore the female was saying "NO" very clearly if not for her body language. what we need is more kardashians. ya know it's that time of the year snowflakes don't melt very easily, 'eynahhh
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When I was around 8 or 9 (1955 or 56) there was a major train accident along the Northeast corridor that stopped train traffic for several days. The Ringling Brothers train could not get to New York so they set up in a large field just a few blocks from my home in central Jersey. It was pretty magical to see all the circus acts under the Big Top. I believe it was one of the last seasons they still actually used a tent. Certainly a different time. Just like vaudeville , radio serials, live weekly TV variety shows the time for the circus has ended.
Didn't Milwaukee have a Circus day Parade bringing out all the classic circus wagons at one time?
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we had some circus group come to east troy every year perform under the "big top" up to about 10 years ago. it was usually sponsored by either our local kiwanis or lions clubs. the animals looked to be well fed and cared for...better than some of the children we saw at our missions of mercy up north and around the more rural areas of the state
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It's sad when we won't even allow animal abuse for our entertainment. :-\
Suppose you want Sea-World and most of the world zoos closed too? How about Chicago's Shedd aquarium? Have you seen the abuse the dolphins take performing all the time?
And while we at it, let ban all the horse drawn carriages in Central Park and Michigan Avenue. And don't get me started on lab research on animals!
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Here is one Circus still in business.
http://www.carsonbarnescircus.com
PETA has be come a real PITA for the circus business.
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Makes the Blackhawks and Bulls schedule easier.
Anyone who wants to see the circus should just go to Browns games. :'(
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Yeah I don't necessarily agree with the theory that the lack of elephants was the final straw. But I found this quote LOL-worthy...
"In recent years, Ringling Bros. tried to remain relevant, hiring its first African American ringmaster, then its first female ringmaster..."
WOW!!! A black and female ringmaster??? In 2017??? HOW BOLD!!!
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we had some circus group come to east troy every year perform under the "big top" up to about 10 years ago. it was usually sponsored by either our local kiwanis or lions clubs. the animals looked to be well fed and cared for...better than some of the children we saw at our missions of mercy up north and around the more rural areas of the state
East Troy? Camp Richards!
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Makes the Blackhawks and Bulls schedule easier.
I think this year already was the last year for the circus at the UC. But your point is correct--and no more stories of the benefits of the Blackhawks bonding on the road!
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Suppose you want Sea-World and most of the world zoos closed too? How about Chicago's Shedd aquarium? Have you seen the abuse the dolphins take performing all the time?
Sea World? No. Glad they are dumping the killer whale shows.
Shedd? No. The dolphin shows seem fine to me.
Zoos? Most of them no. The quality of the exhibit spaces is much better than it was a few decades ago and zoological societies use their resources for preservation as well.
None of the three above are like a travelling circus. It would be helpful if you could make apples to apple comparisons. A circus carts animals all over the place to make them perform. A zoo, aquarium, etc. brings people to their habitat, albiet a man made habitat.
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Odd no one bitched 'bout da human freaks dat make state fair appearances. When it comes ta animals, dat's sacred ground, ai na?
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Sea World? No. Glad they are dumping the killer whale shows.
Shedd? No. The dolphin shows seem fine to me.
Zoos? Most of them no. The quality of the exhibit spaces is much better than it was a few decades ago and zoological societies use their resources for preservation as well.
None of the three above are like a travelling circus. It would be helpful if you could make apples to apple comparisons. A circus carts animals all over the place to make them perform. A zoo, aquarium, etc. brings people to their habitat, albiet a man made habitat.
Your basing this opinion on what? How do you know carting animals is hard on them?
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Odd no one bitched 'bout da human freaks dat make state fair appearances. When it comes ta animals, dat's sacred ground, ai na?
People have a choice.
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Your basing this opinion on what? How do you know carting animals is hard on them?
LOL really? There are dozens and dozens of articles about how circus animals are treated.
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East Troy? Camp Richards!
that's the place-was closed in 1987
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BTW, Cirque du Soleil is pretty much the contemporary version of the circus minus the animals. So I don't really think you can say the circus is dead.
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Odd no one bitched 'bout da human freaks dat make state fair appearances. When it comes ta animals, dat's sacred ground, ai na?
It isn't nice to talk about the Badger-loving cheeseheads that way.
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Suppose you want Sea-World and most of the world zoos closed too? How about Chicago's Shedd aquarium? Have you seen the abuse the dolphins take performing all the time?
I'd like to see all sea-mammal performing shows gone. Similarly, even if it was what ended the circus, glad the elephant shows are gone too. I also hope it gets tougher and more expensive to keep zoos opem as animal care standards and the expectations of how to keep animals in captivity continue to improve.
The more we're learning about these animals, it becomes clearer by the day that they are not as different from us as originally thought. There really isn't any scientific debate that elephants have better memory than humans, and that they're family bonds rival humans' as well. They have an awareness of mortality we didn't think possible for animals until just a couple of years ago. Migratory and sea mammals that are kept in small enclosures have been documented to literally kill themselves, which is - aside from beaching, perhaps - unheard of for animals with the evolutionary drive to reproduce in multiply. I don't want demonize how we used to treat these animals before we knew better, but there really isn't a plausible case for continuing that.
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I'd like to see all sea-mammal performing shows gone. Similarly, even if it was what ended the circus, glad the elephant shows are gone too. I also hope it gets tougher and more expensive to keep zoos opem as animal care standards and the expectations of how to keep animals in captivity continue to improve.
The more we're learning about these animals, it becomes clearer by the day that they are not as different from us as originally thought. There really isn't any scientific debate that elephants have better memory than humans, and that they're family bonds rival humans' as well. They have an awareness of mortality we didn't think possible for animals until just a couple of years ago. Migratory and sea mammals that are kept in small enclosures have been documented to literally kill themselves, which is - aside from beaching, perhaps - unheard of for animals with the evolutionary drive to reproduce in multiply. I don't want demonize how we used to treat these animals before we knew better, but there really isn't a plausible case for continuing that.
I'll accept all this as true. But it does not say that domesticated animals in a zoo or circus constitutes cruel or unusual punishment. Yes, they can, and have, been mistreated. But to correct that does not need to be a total ban.
Everyone likes to personify animals with human traits. And even the animal rights crowd, especially those in this post, are doing this by confusing animals in a show and slavery.
Why isn't it possible to have both humane treatment of animals and also be part of a zoo or circus. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
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I'll accept all this as true. But it does not say that domesticated animals in a zoo or circus constitutes cruel or unusual punishment. Yes, they can, and have, been mistreated. But to correct that does not need to be a total ban.
Everyone likes to personify animals with human traits. And even the animal rights crowd, especially those in this post, are doing this by confusing animals in a show and slavery.
Why isn't it possible to have both humane treatment of animals and also be part of a zoo or circus. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
We do have zoos. And in most places they can have circuses.
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I'll accept all this as true. But it does not say that domesticated animals in a zoo or circus constitutes cruel or unusual punishment. Yes, they can, and have, been mistreated. But to correct that does not need to be a total ban.
Everyone likes to personify animals with human traits. And even the animal rights crowd, especially those in this post, are doing this by confusing animals in a show and slavery.
Why isn't it possible to have both humane treatment of animals and also be part of a zoo or circus. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I disagree that it doesn't translate to a total ban once we're being totally honest about the costs/benefits - at least in the form we have shows and many zoos now. It just comes down to what we as a society are willing to accept as "humane" in exchange for our viewing pleasure. In the past, not actively striking or torturing an animal qualified as humane. Monkeys smoked and elephants were separated from their families and chained by the legs, but so long as there was no physical injury, we deemed that humane.
Now we're realizing the complex social structures, and the needs for space and autonomy for elephants that have an average home range of 75 square miles and family units of up to a dozen animals. They commemorate the deaths of family members and pass the mirror test. Dolphins have a home range of appx 50 square miles and pods of up to 40. There just is no way to reasonably approximate that in a captive environment that still allows humans sufficient access to turn a profit.
The list goes on and on - big cats wearing tracks around their enclosures from pacing all day, primates showing signs of psychological degradation and distress in captivity. We know that sh*t ain't right, and I welcome the public finding the experience less fun (and in turn making those operations less profitable) because of it.
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I disagree that it doesn't translate to a total ban once we're being totally honest about the costs/benefits - at least in the form we have shows and many zoos now. It just comes down to what we as a society are willing to accept as "humane" in exchange for our viewing pleasure. In the past, not actively striking or torturing an animal qualified as humane. Monkeys smoked and elephants were separated from their families and chained by the legs, but so long as there was no physical injury, we deemed that humane.
Now we're realizing the complex social structures, and the needs for space and autonomy for elephants that have an average home range of 75 square miles and family units of up to a dozen animals. They commemorate the deaths of family members and pass the mirror test. Dolphins have a home range of appx 50 square miles and pods of up to 40. There just is no way to reasonably approximate that in a captive environment that still allows humans sufficient access to turn a profit.
The list goes on and on - big cats wearing tracks around their enclosures from pacing all day, primates showing signs of psychological degradation and distress in captivity. We know that sh*t ain't right, and I welcome the public finding the experience less fun (and in turn making those operations less profitable) because of it.
Accepted that a domesticated lifestyle is different than the lifestyle in the wild. But why does that make a domesticated lifestyle bad? It can be but it can change so it is not.
Should we ban dogs as household pets? All dogs are descendants of wolves so the family dog asleep on the floor in the family room is not living a lifestyle anywhere close to what it would in the wild. Is everyone with a dog (or house cat as you note above) participating in animal abuse?
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Yea, I wouldnt lump in zoo's with circuses and Sea World. Of course there are going to be zoos that are not as well equipped due to lack of space or whatever the reason may be.
However, zoos are vital to the conservation of some animals that are not fit to be in the wild, are endangered because of deforestation or poaching. Also gives a good platform to research animals.
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Accepted that a domesticated lifestyle is different than the lifestyle in the wild. But why does that make a domesticated lifestyle bad? It can be but it can change so it is not.
I certainly agree with this. The problem is that the way captivity has to change is not conducive to turning a profit in the way zoos and aquariums have historically driven attendance. Dramatically larger enclosures and less human accessibility drive up costs while reducing public appeal.
And to Chitown's point, I didn't mean to blanketly demonize all accredited zoos & aquariums. Some do great work, and the accessibility to animals from an early age is how many get passionate about their cause. But at the same time, a lot of the claimed benefits of breeding programs are overstated when it comes to anything below the top zoos and the most endangered species, and a vast majority of zoos simply don't have the infrastructure to provide for large or migratory animals in the way we're coming to understand is necessary. Animals like elephants, big cats and large bears are far too common in zoos. Their needs are so intensive that only the most well-funded and esteemed honestly have the $$ or ability to do it right.
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Obama!
He ruined everything.
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Obama!
He ruined everything.
that's it!! shut er down! eh eh ehn'a?