Two consecutive games in which a 7-foot center did not grab a defensive rebound.
He is two steps behind on everything. Wojo needs to pull the plug or he is going to submarine another season for us. Play heldt or hauser n rinehardt together. We cannot win BE games with Fisher in the lineup.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 07, 2017, 09:01:29 PM
He is two steps behind on everything. Wojo needs to pull the plug or he is going to submarine another season for us. Play heldt or hauser n rinehardt together. We cannot win BE games with Fisher in the lineup.
lol. We NEED Luke. Offensively and defensively.
He's never been a good defensive rebounder.. that's not going to change. Not a good night tonight, but a solid season this year. Absolutely key to this team.
Luke sucks so we're basically screwed
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 07, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
lol. We NEED Luke. Offensively and defensively.
He's never been a good defensive rebounder.. that's not going to change. Not a good night tonight, but a solid season this year. Absolutely key to this team.
I agree that we definitely need him this year. It's just so furnishing that he plays so soft and disappears when he should step up as a leader in times when you'd expect a senior to do so. Instead, we have freshman stepping up.
He has done nothing against teams of consequence. Wojo needs to make changes, we r a better team with jjj n fischer on the bench. Play the sophs n freshman, not because the season is lost, but because they are our best players.
I agree with the important observation of the subject, and hope that Wojo is well aware of that statistic.
I disagree with the text of the original post. Silly.
In his defense, he's only 6'11" and Nova didn't miss any shots.
He needs to step his game up he's a senior leader. Wojo needs to give him a message so he can step up. Huge game next
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 07, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
lol. We NEED Luke. Offensively and defensively.
He's never been a good defensive rebounder.. that's not going to change. Not a good night tonight, but a solid season this year. Absolutely key to this team.
Novak was never a good defensive rebounder either, but he improved by leaps and bounds his Senior year..That's what a Senior does.
Luke is one of those guys that has a ton of potential, but he hasn't reached the heights that most of us thought he would. He has a nice touch for a big man, and he moves up and down the court quite well. The one MAJOR ingredient that he lacks is intensity. He doesn't play physical or with intensity. His fouls are typically weak, he doesn't really protect the basket for us, and is not a good rebounder for 6'10" or 6'11". I would like to see him play with emotion and enthusiasm. I really thought he would rise to the occasion as a senior, but to this point he hasn't. Hopefully, he will show us some senior leadership "on the court" before all is said and done. He most definitely has the potential! ;D
GO MU!
He doesn't have the potential. He is who he is.
Quote from: hoops12 on January 07, 2017, 10:26:59 PM
Luke is one of those guys that has a ton of potential, but he hasn't reached the heights that most of us thought he would. He has a nice touch for a big man, and he moves up and down the court quite well. The one MAJOR ingredient that he lacks is intensity. He doesn't play physical of with intensity. His fouls are typically weak, he doesn't really protect the basket for us, and is not a good rebounder for 6'10" or 6'11". I would like to see he play with emotion and enthusiasm. I really thought he would rise to the occasion as a senior, but to this point he hasn't. Hopefully, he will show us some senior leadership "on the court" before all is said and done. He most definitely has the potential! ;D
GO MU!
Is Fischer the new Jamil Wilson where he's not as good as fans want him to be and therefore he lacks intensity and heart? I mean, it couldn't be that he's just a solid, unspectacular big man and that's it, right?
Also, Fischer doesn't play all that physical in the BE because he's not nearly as broad or as strong as many BE post players. He's got the build of a stretch-4 but the skills of a true center. He does his best to bang in the post but the size and strength just aren't there.
Nova only missed 17 of 49 shots, which didn't leave that many rebounds for anybody. Giving up 93 points is why we lost. Not Luke's defensive rebounding.
Quote from: muguru on January 07, 2017, 10:26:31 PM
Novak was never a good defensive rebounder either, but he improved by leaps and bounds his Senior year..That's what a Senior does.
Yeah, so tell me why you're ignoring his top 100 (nationally) ORtg, career-high reb %'s, career low TO%'s, etc?
Or tell me why you were impressed by Novak's 15% DR% as a senior?
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 07, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
lol. We NEED Luke. Offensively and defensively.
He's never been a good defensive rebounder.. that's not going to change. Not a good night tonight, but a solid season this year. Absolutely key to this team.
I mean, theres bad, then there is not a single rebound bad.
So I guess we're not going to see any more "Luke to the NBA" threads.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 07, 2017, 10:29:08 PM
He doesn't have the potential. He is who he is.
His best MU performance is still his debut against ASU. Whether Luke should have progressed more is certainly up for debate. He's made some small improvements, but no big leap. And, as he has played, coaches (especially within the conference) have found ways to exposed his defensive liabilities.
But, I agree, at this point in his career he is who he is.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 07, 2017, 11:16:30 PM
Yeah, so tell me why you're ignoring his top 100 (nationally) ORtg, career-high reb %'s, career low TO%'s, etc?
Or tell me why you were impressed by Novak's 15% DR% as a senior?
If he hasn't grabbed a defensive rebound in two games you can take all those stats and sit on them because a case can be made for benching a player for that just based on principle.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 07, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
Nova only missed 17 of 49 shots, which didn't leave that many rebounds for anybody. Giving up 93 points is why we lost. Not Luke's defensive rebounding.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
I think the Fischer/Jamil Wilson comparison is excellent. Fine complementary option on a good team. Not a primary option. 13 years after the fact, kind of like Scott Merritt, too. Fine fourth starter with Wade and Jackson. Not what you expected when down to Diener and a young Novak. Ooze a decent comparison, too. How much better would Fischer be playing with the triplets?
Luke misses Henry on defense.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 07, 2017, 09:15:56 PM
He has done nothing against teams of consequence. Wojo needs to make changes, we r a better team with jjj n fischer on the bench. Play the sophs n freshman, not because the season is lost, but because they are our best players.
Newsflash: The freshman and sophomores have been getting played the most: Cheatham and Hauser are above 30 minutes per game in BE Play. Howard, due to foul trouble against Gtown limited by foul trouble only played 21, and then 25 against Hall when he had 5 turnovers.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 08, 2017, 09:17:28 AM
Luke misses Henry on defense.
Kind of like Merritt missed Jackson on defense.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 08, 2017, 06:41:29 AM
If he hasn't grabbed a defensive rebound in two games you can take all those stats and sit on them because a case can be made for benching a player for that just based on principle.
Last 2 games, MU has allowed 34% OR% by the opp.
Other Big East game, Luke had 5 DR. MU allowed 36.4% OR% by the opp
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 08, 2017, 10:06:26 AM
Last 2 games, MU has allowed 34% OR% by the opp.
Other Big East game, Luke had 5 DR. MU allowed 36.4% OR% by the opp
He is 7' tall, plays center, and hasn't had a defensive rebound in two games. That's not okay. I'd be willing to bet wojo would say the same. I'm all for advanced stats...use them daily in my job...but you realize in working with stats that interpretation is still most important. There's no excuse.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 08, 2017, 11:50:56 AM
He is 7' tall, plays center, and hasn't had a defensive rebound in two games. That's not okay. I'd be willing to bet wojo would say the same. I'm all for advanced stats...use them daily in my job...but you realize in working with stats that interpretation is still most important. There's no excuse.
That's not a reason to relegate him to the bench or to pretend he's not very valuable for this team to have on the court.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 08, 2017, 11:50:56 AMI'm all for advanced stats...use them daily in my job...but you realize in working with stats that interpretation is still most important.
So against Seton Hall, when he was effectively boxing out his guy, allowing Sam and JJ to get to rebounds while not getting rebounds himself, is that not part of this interpretation you're talking about? Should he not hold his guy off and go for the rebound himself?
Quote from: avid1010 on January 08, 2017, 11:50:56 AM
He is 7' tall, plays center, and hasn't had a defensive rebound in two games. That's not okay. I'd be willing to bet wojo would say the same. I'm all for advanced stats...use them daily in my job...but you realize in working with stats that interpretation is still most important. There's no excuse.
Different game plan, different stats.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 08, 2017, 11:52:53 AM
That's not a reason to relegate him to the bench or to pretend he's not very valuable for this team to have on the court.
Maybe...maybe not. At some point you need to find a way to demand toughness from your team. Buzz used the bench to teach lessons...I get that he is really all we have so it's difficult to so...and I like the kid...it's just disappointing that this discussion is taking place in his senior year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 12:04:12 PM
So against Seton Hall, when he was effectively boxing out his guy, allowing Sam and JJ to get to rebounds while not getting rebounds himself, is that not part of this interpretation you're talking about? Should he not hold his guy off and go for the rebound himself?
Yeah...they are taught to do both. I've watched Wojo coach it.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 08, 2017, 06:57:35 PM
Yeah...they are taught to do both. I've watched Wojo coach it.
Doesn't really answer the question. When he has a guy effectively boxed out and can see that Sam or JJ will get to the board, should he...
A. Abandon his box in order to fight his teammates off the ball so he is credited with defensive rebounds?
B. Hold his guy off and allow Marquette to gain possession?
Also...bear in mind that if you pick A, the additional side effect is the loss of possession when his own man, no longer boxed out, now has the opportunity to also fight for the ball.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 08:32:40 PM
Doesn't really answer the question. When he has a guy effectively boxed out and can see that Sam or JJ will get to the board, should he...
A. Abandon his box in order to fight his teammates off the ball so he is credited with defensive rebounds?
B. Hold his guy off and allow Marquette to gain possession?
Also...bear in mind that if you pick A, the additional side effect is the loss of possession when his own man, no longer boxed out, now has the opportunity to also fight for the ball.
that's foolish. no one coaches (individual or team rebounding) in terms of "boxes". not even in a zone...that stops in middle school or with low level high school ball. hell, if it makes you feel better, we'll all agree that fischer was just killing the box-outs against nova. can't believe wojo had the nerve to bench him.
i've listened to bo, wojo, and izzo talk about individual and team rebounding and the need to release when the ball hits the rim. izzo and wojo pushing their guards to release to the wings to start the break, while bo generally asked his guards to hold their box-out for a two-count after the ball hit the rim (as they didn't break as much). all three have their bigs crash to the ball.
generally speaking, the only time i've seen it coached differently is when you're severely out-sized. i.e. you end up with a guard boxing out a center. you can't send the guard to the rim, as the center can go over his back without fouling. that's not the case with luke....ever.
but hell, we'll play your game. if fischer is properly rebounding his "box" it's amazing a ball didn't bounce to his "box" once in the last two games, and if he's clearing out his area for sam and jj to board we should see multiple one bounce rebounds, which are so common in college and NBA basketball compared to middle/high school right?!?!
and then there is this...https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielJohnFitz/status/817951410415345665 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielJohnFitz/status/817951410415345665)
and this...http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/07/notes-tough-night-luke-fischer-loss/96309420/ (http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/07/notes-tough-night-luke-fischer-loss/96309420/)
Other than that we could all watch with our eyeballs as Luke held guys off for JJ and Sam. And at the same time, got 11 offensive boards.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see better on the defensive end from Luke, but when it comes to defensive rebounding, I don't care if he gets 1 or 100 boards as long as we as a team are rebounding well. And we don't do that without Luke contributing to that effort, even if you don't see it in the box score.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 09, 2017, 11:12:10 AM
Other than that we could all watch with our eyeballs as Luke held guys off for JJ and Sam. And at the same time, got 11 offensive boards.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see better on the defensive end from Luke, but when it comes to defensive rebounding, I don't care if he gets 1 or 100 boards as long as we as a team are rebounding well. And we don't do that without Luke contributing to that effort, even if you don't see it in the box score.
He
Sh1t...if he was doing all that why did wojo bench him and Fitzgerald tell him to man up.
Luke is my new favorite boxer outer...thanks for helping me see the light.
Call me crazy, but I like my tallest player to grab a defensive board at least once every 50 minutes or so.