MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: mr.MUskie on January 05, 2017, 05:27:59 PM
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http://fw.to/USsWgja
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http://fw.to/USsWgja
Jimmy to the Bucks.
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Jimmy to the Bucks.
Thankfully no.
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The Bulls are trading always a very good young player. That is stupid.
The whole Wade signing was dumb. Should have gone young.
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I think teams do this all the time. They would only deal if they got a really special offer. I don't see that happening.
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Doubt da Bucks would have any interest unless Chicago would take Plumlee, Vaughn, Beasley, and Novak back in return, hey?
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Doubt da Bucks would have any interest unless Chicago would take Plumlee, Vaughn, Beasley, and Novak back in return, hey?
Not sure the Bucks really want to get rid of any of those guys other than Plumlee.
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How 'bout Monroe den? Da rest ain't doin' stink, ai na?
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How 'bout Monroe den? Da rest ain't doin' stink, ai na?
The rest also cost nothing. And at some point you're going to have to resign guys like Parker, Brogdon, and even Middleton, whose contract will be up by the time the Bucks are ready to compete with the Cavs.
Trading away expiring and/or cheap contracts for a max contract, polarizing player in the locker room? Don't think that's what the Bucks need.
Quite simply? Stay the course. You have a good thing going.
PS As bad as Moose was last year he's been equally as good this year.
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The rest also cost nothing. And at some point you're going to have to resign guys like Parker, Brogdon, and even Middleton, whose contract will be up by the time the Bucks are ready to compete with the Cavs.
Trading away expiring and/or cheap contracts for a max contract, polarizing player in the locker room? Don't think that's what the Bucks need.
Quite simply? Stay the course. You have a good thing going.
PS As bad as Moose was last year he's been equally as good this year.
Butler is not a polarizing player in the locker room. The issues last year are an outlier.
BTW, Butler's contract is very good based on his production when you look at it in comparison to other deals handed since the cap increased.
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The problem with Butler is that he's an ideal #2 star. He's not a franchise player around whom you build a perennial championship contender. He's the guy right next to that guy. He's in the Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Tony Parker category of all-star players. He's an incredibly valuable piece to a franchise but he's not THE piece. Unless you can trade him for a young player who you believe will become that piece or you can get into a draft position to select that piece, trading Butler seemingly makes no sense.
On the other hand, where do you get that #1 to play along side Butler? Looking at the top 2017 FAs...Curry isn't going anywhere and Griffin and Paul are in the same category as Butler as #2s. Unless there's a disgruntled superstar out there who a team will trade for 20 cents on the dollar, I don't see the Bulls landing a true #1.
If they were going to trade him, the team that could offer the best return would likely be Boston. Butler for Jaylen Brown (who has often been compared to Butler), Brooklyn's unprotected #1 pick in '17 (Fultz? Ball?), along with throw-ins Zeller and Jerebenko. Would that get it done? Would Boston need to throw in another future 1st Rounder? Would Boston even be interested in that deal?
Lots to consider and my guess is that the Bulls do what the Bulls do and stand pat, get the #15 pick in the draft and continue on their adventure through NBA hell.
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The problem with Butler is that he's an ideal #2 star. He's not a franchise player around whom you build a perennial championship contender. He's the guy right next to that guy. He's in the Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Tony Parker category of all-star players. He's an incredibly valuable piece to a franchise but he's not THE piece. Unless you can trade him for a young player who you believe will become that piece or you can get into a draft position to select that piece, trading Butler seemingly makes no sense.
On the other hand, where do you get that #1 to play along side Butler? Looking at the top 2017 FAs...Curry isn't going anywhere and Griffin and Paul are in the same category as Butler as #2s. Unless there's a disgruntled superstar out there who a team will trade for 20 cents on the dollar, I don't see the Bulls landing a true #1.
If they were going to trade him, the team that could offer the best return would likely be Boston. Butler for Jaylen Brown (who has often been compared to Butler), Brooklyn's unprotected #1 pick in '17 (Fultz? Ball?), along with throw-ins Zeller and Jerebenko. Would that get it done? Would Boston need to throw in another future 1st Rounder? Would Boston even be interested in that deal?
Lots to consider and my guess is that the Bulls do what the Bulls do and stand pat, get the #15 pick in the draft and continue on their adventure through NBA hell.
I agree with this. I don't think the Bulls front office is creative enough to find that player (not that doing so is easy) and build around Butler. Nor do they have the assets to acquire someone like a Cousins if Sacramento ever considered selling low. Unfortunately, Butler's prime years are likely to be wasted.
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I think this is pretty much right, but I'm curious what the story would be if Jimmy had better talent - particularly athletic talent - around him during his prime. Last year was Gasol, DRose, McDermott, a half season of Joakim, and a half season of Dunleavy all getting in the neighborhood of 20 mins a game. All 5 of those guys move like they've been shot in the knees. Slow former leaders in a fast system with an up and coming energetic guy who needed a little more experience in how to lead = bad soup. And this team makes even less sense. Basically a bunch more strong personalities that can't shoot.
I don't think Jimmy will ever win a championship with a team that's him and a bunch of B- players - but other than Nowitzki and LeBron coming close, who has? I don't think Jimmy needs any more support to win a 'ship than anyone else in the league outside of LeBron. Pairing him with any of the other stranded stars (Westbrook, Cousins, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol) would put that team a serviceable 3&D stretch 4 and opposite of the other star (PG if Cousins, Davis or Gasol, a big if Westbrook or Lillard) away from immediately vaulting into the top 3-4 championship contenders. So I don't think any team with Jimmy is all that far off, and they should put on a full court press for Westbrook or Cousins, because none of those other guys are going anywhere (esp not with the lack of trade pieces Chi has).
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I think this is pretty much right, but I'm curious what the story would be if Jimmy had better talent - particularly athletic talent - around him during his prime. Last year was Gasol, DRose, McDermott, a half season of Joakim, and a half season of Dunleavy all getting in the neighborhood of 20 mins a game. All 5 of those guys move like they've been shot in the knees. Slow former leaders in a fast system with an up and coming energetic guy who needed a little more experience in how to lead = bad soup. And this team makes even less sense. Basically a bunch more strong personalities that can't shoot.
I don't think Jimmy will ever win a championship with a team that's him and a bunch of B- players - but other than Nowitzki and LeBron coming close, who has? I don't think Jimmy needs any more support to win a 'ship than anyone else in the league outside of LeBron. Pairing him with any of the other stranded stars (Westbrook, Cousins, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol) would put that team a serviceable 3&D stretch 4 and opposite of the other star (PG if Cousins, Davis or Gasol, a big if Westbrook or Lillard) away from immediately vaulting into the top 3-4 championship contenders. So I don't think any team with Jimmy is all that far off, and they should put on a full court press for Westbrook or Cousins, because none of those other guys are going anywhere (esp not with the lack of trade pieces Chi has).
did you just insinuate Jason Kidd was a B- player? :o
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did you just insinuate Jason Kidd was a B- player? :o
That season, yeah. He was 37, and while he played 33 mpg, was backcourtmates with Jason Terry, who took a lot of the ballhandling pressure off. Even with that, he averaged 8 ppg, an admittedly robust 8.2 assts, 4 rbds and a steal. His PER was actually below league average at 14.4 and he hadn't made an all defensive team in 4 years, when he made a second team. Veteran presence and all, sure, but leadership aside, there's a lot of players with that profile. Tyson Chandler and Jason Terry were probably both as important, if not more important to that team.
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Can't argue any of this is wrong
Jimmy Butler is the best Bulls player since Scottie and Michael
01/05/2017, 02:33pm
http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/jimmy-butler-is-the-best-bulls-player-since-scottie-and-michael/
No, the secret has been out for a while. Butler has reached NBA stardom. He’s gone Hollywood. And he’s undoubtedly the best two-way player to wear a Bulls uniform since Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan were doing that dynasty thing in the 1990s.
And if Derrick Rose apologists want to speak up and point towards what a certain former No. 1 did for the Bulls, well, check the numbers. In Rose’s 2010-11 MVP season, the only statistical category he was better than what Butler’s been pulling off this year was assists.
Butler is scoring more than Rose did that year, rebounding more, shooting at a higher field-goal percentage, both overall and from three-point range, and more importantly, still guarding the team’s best offensive player on most nights.
Rose treated defense like a part-time hobby.