Man if he even had one basket today could have made a difference. Defensively seems as intense as ever just can't get the O going.
Announcers made a good point that our opponents are figuring him out more. Haanif's struggled to finish when he drives. Shots look out of control lately. Any young player will get into a slump but his is lasting too long and it's a bit disconcerting.
Quote from: Ellenson_toMU14 on January 01, 2017, 06:14:10 PM
Announcers made a good point that our opponents are figuring him out more. Haanif's struggled to finish when he drives. Shots look out of control lately. Any young player will get into a slump but his is lasting too long and it's a bit disconcerting.
He still has no right hand. Not hard to stop if he can't use his right. Was hoping he would have improved that over the off season.
Quote from: gepsguys on January 01, 2017, 06:11:09 PM
Man if he even had one basket today could have made a difference. Defensively seems as intense as ever just can't get the O going.
I really feel bad for the kid right now. The effort is there, but he is in a dangerous slump. Wojo seemed to use the non-conference portion of the schedule to see if he could work his way through it, but we won't be able to play 4 on 5 at the offensive end in the BE. I know people will say I'm a chicken little, but this looks very similar to Sandy last year. I think Cheatham has time to right the ship, but he is headed in the wrong direction.
Nowhere near Sandy yet. HC is still doing everything else right. He just needs to see one go in. Everybody needs a slumpbuster from time to time.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on January 01, 2017, 06:16:26 PM
I really feel bad for the kid right now. The effort is there, but he is in a dangerous slump. Wojo seemed to use the non-conference portion of the schedule to see if he could work his way through it, but we won't be able to play 4 on 5 at the offensive end in the BE. I know people will say I'm a chicken little, but this looks very similar to Sandy last year. I think Cheatham has time to right the ship, but he is headed in the wrong direction.
I think he's pretty hard on himself too. Any mistakes keep affecting his confidence. He needs a couple good games offensively to break out of the slump. Haanif proved he could play in the BE last year unlike Sandy, so I'm hopeful he will turn it around.
Until he works it out Wojo has to cut HC's minutes, his stats this year are mostly against our non-con cupcakes. Reinhardt needs more minutes, HC plays good defense but his 29 unproductive mins and missed layup tonight really really hurt us.
Without Duane, with Luke and Matt splitting time at the 5, Howard and Rowsey splitting time at the one, and 120 minutes to divvy up between 4 guys at the 2-3-4, what options did Wojo have? Play the midgets together?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 01, 2017, 06:15:12 PM
He still has no right hand. Not hard to stop if he can't use his right. Was hoping he would have improved that over the off season.
And no mid-range game at all.
This is no t new. HC laps up the cupcakes and is mediocre to a abysmal against Top 100 teams. Needs to dimensionalize his game. Too heads down predictable. Regressing.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 01, 2017, 06:40:01 PM
This is no t new. HC laps up the cupcakes and is mediocre to a abysmal against Top 100 teams. Needs to dimensionalize his game. Too heads down predictable. Regressing.
In a slump. Now near the top of the other team's scouting report and it is an easy scout. They have adjusted to him, he needs to adjust to them now. And he needs to see something go in.
Quote from: gepsguys on January 01, 2017, 06:11:09 PM
Man if he even had one basket today could have made a difference. Defensively seems as intense as ever just can't get the O going.
That pass to Hauser was pretty sweet though. HC proved that he belongs on the floor in the BE, he will break out of the slump. Would have been nice if the refs would have called the foul on the missed lay-up....
Quote from: tower912 on January 01, 2017, 06:42:04 PM
In a slump. Now near the top of the other team's scouting report and it is an easy scout. They have adjusted to him, he needs to adjust to them now. And he needs to see something go in.
Pomeroy disagrees. Two year slump then.
At the end of last year, the possibility that he could graduate as MU's all time leading scorer was a topic of discussion. So the slump couldn't have been too damned bad.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on January 01, 2017, 06:43:03 PM
That pass to Hauser was pretty sweet though. HC proved that he belongs on the floor in the BE, he will break out of the slump. Would have been nice if the refs would have called the foul on the missed lay-up....
Your'e right that basket might as well have counted for HC. Great decision on his part.
When Duane comes back, HC should be down to 10 minutes a game. No right hand, no jump shot, same move every time. Took people by surprise last year, now people know his one move.
I marvel at the willingness of people to give up on a slumping sophomore. Or freshman. Ridonkulous
Cheatham still does plenty well. Maybe he should take fewer shots, but we need him contributing in other ways. We don't have the depth to ignore anyone on this roster.
Quote from: tower912 on January 01, 2017, 06:42:04 PM
In a slump. Now near the top of the other team's scouting report and it is an easy scout. They have adjusted to him, he needs to adjust to them now. And he needs to see something go in.
If I'm the other team's scout, Cheatham is near the bottom of my report (beneath JJJ, Luke, Howard, Rowsey and Reinhardt). It would read: play off of him, make him beat you from deep or from midrange. Exclusively left handed. Switch on to him if he beats his man as he often gets out of control/airborne and has trouble finishing.
I think you have to look at staggering Haanif and JJ's minutes. Haanif doesn't get the ball in great positions to attack when he's on the floor with Jajuan. They run nice action on the curl for JJ that (in theory) should benefit him, as it gets him attacking a defender that's coming off a screen, or a switch. I'd love to flip the floor and see if they can get Haanif onto his left.
He obviously misses Henry as well. He'd draw the post out a bit, and the baseline drive was much more open for Haanif.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 01, 2017, 08:41:48 PM
He obviously misses Henry as well. He'd draw the post out a bit, and the baseline drive was much more open for Haanif.
Replace Henry with Leader and we have figured out the puzzle. HC is a solid defender and had a great offensive year by being the 3/4 option (role player).
HC is not the next leading MU scorer without a lot of work and the benefit of other scoring options on the team.
I agree with 4never that this team needs talent - it's on Wojo that it has taken so long - but at least it's going in the right direction (Sam/Markus)
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 01, 2017, 08:51:11 PM
Replace Henry with Leader and we have figured out the puzzle. HC is a solid defender and had a great offensive year by being the 3/4 option (role player).
HC is not the next leading MU scorer without a lot of work and the benefit of other scoring options on the team.
I agree with 4never that this team needs talent - it's on Wojo that it has taken so long - but at least it's going in the right direction (Sam/Markus)
How soon were you expecting it to come in? This freshman class is Wojo's second recruiting class at MU...
Markus, Sam, and Hank are all big time hits that just about any program in the country would take. Haanif is okay. Matt is a project big and Sacar is a project guard. Rowsey will be a good 2 year contributor.
It's not a slump.
HC basically has that one move and now the opponents stop it.
One made basket won't do a thing unless he adds to his game.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 01, 2017, 09:03:28 PM
How soon were you expecting it to come in? This freshman class is Wojo's second recruiting class at MU...
Markus, Sam, and Hank are all big time hits that just about any program in the country would take. Haanif is okay. Matt is a project big and Sacar is a project guard. Rowsey will be a good 2 year contributor.
Rowsey is a role player. This is not a Wojo thread but his ability to get/retain a dominant PF over the past 3 years stinks. Additionally he has not upgraded the JJJ position. 3 years is an eternity in college Bball -- lucklily we are a patient bunch.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 01, 2017, 07:47:53 PM
Cheatham still does plenty well. Maybe he should take fewer shots, but we need him contributing in other ways. We don't have the depth to ignore anyone on this roster.
How quickly things change. Six weeks ago Sacar decided to redshirt because he couldn't crack our deep 11 man rotation. Two transfers and one injury later we're dangerously thin.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 01, 2017, 09:09:30 PM
Rowsey is a role player. This is not a Wojo thread but his ability to get/retain a dominant PF over the past 3 years stinks. Additionally he has not upgraded the JJJ position. 3 years is an eternity in college Bball -- lucklily we are a patient bunch.
Again, this is Wojo's second recruiting class. Including his first year as an inability to get anything is silly. Up through April he was recruiting kids to Duke. Pretty tough to get a bunch of studs in after everyone has signed NLIs.
He got the #1 PF in the entire country in his first recruiting class. He signed 2 PFs in his third class. Hauser will be a huge upgrade at "the JJJ position" next year. The facts just don't match up with what you're saying.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 01, 2017, 09:49:05 PM
How quickly things change. Six weeks ago Sacar decided to redshirt because he couldn't crack our deep 11 man rotation. Two transfers and one injury later we're dangerously thin.
I doubt many teams in the country could lose three rotation players and not be dangerously thin.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 01, 2017, 09:52:45 PM
Again, this is Wojo's second recruiting class. Including his first year as an inability to get anything is silly. Up through April he was recruiting kids to Duke. Pretty tough to get a bunch of studs in after everyone has signed NLIs.
He got the #1 PF in the entire country in his first recruiting class. He signed 2 PFs in his third class. Hauser will be a huge upgrade at "the JJJ position" next year. The facts just don't match up with what you're saying.
PF is a huge hole on the team - I know HE was the guy last year. Wojo tried but no JUCO or Grad transfer wanted to opt in. Peace?
On the frosh arriving next year I will await the outcome - we know this will take time.
Look there are no facts - all comments are opinions. There are multiple ways to build the team and these are the results - we are where we are.
HC unfortunately has not improved or even worked on it seems his mid-range game. Because of that, he will never be a big time scorer in the Big East. To many bigs
around the basket. No right hand, that is for sure and can not jump a lick, white mans disease. But he can play great D and let the game flow to him. Once he started
to pass going to the hoop he made plays, that is what he will have to do until he works on other parts of this game. No ability to even do righty lay-ups. It will be challenge for him. As a lot to work on.
MU will need to recruit another wing to replace the scoring of JJJ and Reinhardt next year. I do not see HC carrying the load. To bad Duane is hurt. They needed him
today. He will play alot next year.
The last point is coaching. There was a time-out and he even stated to my guests they are going to go high pick and roll with Carrington going to his left. That is exactly
what happened. If I could see that why did not coaches not see that, and I do not watch film like they do? Bad. Blocking out, Luke is not tough enough, that was just plain stupid. Should have brought Matt in and played 2 bigs for the rebound!
Quote from: tower912 on January 01, 2017, 06:48:59 PM
At the end of last year, the possibility that he could graduate as MU's all time leading scorer was a topic of discussion. So the slump couldn't have been too damned bad.
The D1 average Orating this season is 102.9 and was 103.6 last season. Among Top 100 teams last year, he was 86.5. This season he is 87.0 against Top 100. HC for all games this season is 113.5, puffed up in his cupcake games where they don't scout him versus a sorry 47.9 in the BE so far who do. He is shooting miserable 9.1% eFG in the Big East and a 37.5 eFG% against Top 100 this season. Slump got worse for sure but he has always been way below average against Top 100 teams.
Most everyone's efficiency drops against tough competition, but his drops precipitously. Why? He is one dimensional as he has been scouted. Don't get me wrong, the kid is a stud, but he needs to be coached up. Very similar to Vander in his sophomore year of in that regard, btw. He was Buzz's pet project between his sophomore and junior years.
Quote from: blikemike2 on January 01, 2017, 06:31:02 PM
Until he works it out Wojo has to cut HC's minutes, his stats this year are mostly against our non-con cupcakes. Reinhardt needs more minutes, HC plays good defense but his 29 unproductive mins and missed layup tonight really really hurt us.
I completely disagree with this. HC is our best wing defender. Katin is much better in small, intense doses. When he is on the floor longer, like earlier this year, that's when the bad decision making takes over. Wojo has him on the floor for a reason.
Good thing they don't need his scoring like they did last year.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on January 01, 2017, 11:13:57 PM
HC unfortunately has not improved or even worked on it seems his mid-range game. Because of that, he will never be a big time scorer in the Big East.
Guys, the kid is heading into his 3rd semester of ball. In a stable program he would be a role player at this point. He is talented, smart and a team player. Someone with that combination will improve. By this time next year he will be the kind of guy you go to to steady the ship and win games like yesterday at SH. People don't remember that at this point in his career McNeal was a turn over machine. It really wasn't until the end of his Soph year that he became dependable. This team is still young. The seniors they do have a KR (a transfer role player) Luke ( a decent center but not a leader) and JJJ (A completely bi-polar player who will always swing wildly from great to awful and not a leader at all, in other words the opposite of HC). 2 years from now when HC and his class are the SENIORS it won't be like this. It will be like the Badgers are now. Well executing in the clutch, steady, dependable. Lets layoff HC for a while.
Can I get an 'amen'?
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 02, 2017, 08:40:35 AM
Guys, the kid is heading into his 3rd semester of ball. In a stable program he would be a role player at this point. He is talented, smart and a team player. Someone with that combination will improve. By this time next year he will be the kind of guy you go to to steady the ship and win games like yesterday at SH. People don't remember that at this point in his career McNeal was a turn over machine. It really wasn't until the end of his Soph year that he became dependable. This team is still young. The seniors they do have a KR (a transfer role player) Luke ( a decent center but not a leader) and JJJ (A completely bi-polar player who will always swing wildly from great to awful and not a leader at all, in other words the opposite of HC). 2 years from now when HC and his class are the SENIORS it won't be like this. It will be like the Badgers are now. Well executing in the clutch, steady, dependable. Lets layoff HC for a while.
He is what he is. A nice player but there has been many bloggers who think he might become the leading scorer in MU history. That will not happen. Yesterday he played great D, but at times once he goes to the hoop he is not sure what to do, nor how to finish. Until he figures out a jump shot, he will have some trouble scoring. As a slasher, he will have games that he will be able to score. Secondly, I do not believe in Sophomore slumps. That is ridiculous. Teams learn your game,
it is the player that has to make changes, he has not done that yet. Hope he does, Vander was awful as a sophomore. Came on as a junior.
HC will be fine, but he's been pretty bad for awhile. He makes that layup with 30 seconds left and we probably win last night. Brutal.
That said, I am not in anyway giving up on him. He'll be fine. Does need to diversify a bit, and he knows that. It will come.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/01/haanif-cheatham-going-through-offensive-slump/96074864/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=
Hannie is aware of it. Says it is just a little slump. Plans to get back in the gym and keep working. Best attitude to have.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 02, 2017, 06:21:53 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/01/haanif-cheatham-going-through-offensive-slump/96074864/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=
Hannie is aware of it. Says it is just a little slump. Plans to get back in the gym and keep working. Best attitude to have.
One issue that Cheatham has faced is that teams are focusing more on stopping on him, something that Seton Hall head coach Kevin Willard mentioned was a point of emphasis. Gotta adjust bruh
We're only 2 games into the conference season. It's too early to say anything conclusively about Haanif's game. But he has improved in a number of areas since last season:
ORtg
101.1 (2015-16)
113.5 (2016-17)
Turnover rate
24.4% (2015-16)
12.9% (2016-17)
Defensive rebounding percentage
10.8% (2015-16)
14.8% (2016-17)
Assist rate
14.3% (2015-16)
18.2% (2016-17)
Turnovers, not shooting, was my biggest concern about Haney's game last year. Cutting his turnover rate in half while maintaining the same usage and scoring average is a huge difference so far, along with defensive rebounding. I think his offense will come around. But keep one thing in mind — with the addition of Katin, Sam, Andrew and Markus, the team doesn't need Haanif to carry as much of the offensive load.
92 I agree patience is needed. Many guards don't completely figure it out on O until late soph or early junior year.
The stats above though -- Are the last year numbers through mid season or a full season? Main point is the quality of team greatly increases here forward
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 02, 2017, 08:23:18 PMThe stats above though -- Are the last year numbers through mid season or a full season? Main point is the quality of team greatly increases here forward
Last year's stats are for the full season (per KenPom). So the comparison is incomplete. But that's in part the point — it's way too early in the season for anyone to conclude that Haanif has hit his ceiling and hasn't improved.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 02, 2017, 07:43:29 AM
I completely disagree with this. HC is our best wing defender. Katin is much better in small, intense doses. When he is on the floor longer, like earlier this year, that's when the bad decision making takes over. Wojo has him on the floor for a reason.
Good thing they don't need his scoring like they did last year.
So funny that all of a sudden Katin needs to get Haani's minutes. Two weeks ago, many Scoopers were saying Katin was an abject failure and should be rooted to the bench.
Some in this crew would have given up on Kaminsky when he was a soph if they were Bucky backers.
I also enjoyed the idea of putting both Luke and Heldt out there to get the FT rebound. If Heldt got it, was fouled, missed the 1-and-1 and we lost, those same Scoopers would have been ripping Wojo for having Heldt out there. "Anybody can get a rebound when the opponent is shooting FTs. Gotta have our best FT shooters out there." Scoopers crack me up.
Quote from: MU82 on January 02, 2017, 10:27:37 PM
So funny that all of a sudden Katin needs to get Haani's minutes. Two weeks ago, many Scoopers were saying Katin was an abject failure and should be rooted to the bench.
Some in this crew would have given up on Kaminsky when he was a soph if they were Bucky backers.
I also enjoyed the idea of putting both Luke and Heldt out there to get the FT rebound. If Heldt got it, was fouled, missed the 1-and-1 and we lost, those same Scoopers would have been ripping Wojo for having Heldt out there. "Anybody can get a rebound when the opponent is shooting FTs. Gotta have our best FT shooters out there." Scoopers crack me up.
Except Marquette was not in the bonus.